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doreen
26-11-2011, 00:22
Okay - let's see if this Forum can do something positive rather than just talk.

I'm starting a new thread in the hope that we can come up with some options/strategies for those concerned with the current clampdown on illegal holiday lettings - both owners (of Residential units, or on Touristic complexes where poor returns are given by the sole agent), business owners who might be affected and tourists who use these apartments and feel uncomfortable at the lack of choice they think they will now face.

I would like to think we could express (positive) opinions on here on how a strong lobbying campaign could be run. This is in no way intended to go against the interests of some members such as Oasis or Loaded who run good, legal businesses: so I believe part of any campaign must also focus on bringing in a "level playing field" rather than just looking for an amnesty or going back to the way things were. Discussion should also include agreeing to a fair registration & transparent taxation system as well as improvement of standards.

The first thing I suggest, is that there is strength in numbers. We now know there is a meeting to be held on 15th December, probably in Adeje. Can I suggest that all affected owners make an effort to either attend (flying in if need be) or appoint a representative to attend. I would also urge any Swallows that are using "illegal" accommodation and are here at that date to consider attending.

Can anyone give advice on setting up an online petition ... and what would the text be.

Is there anyone (forum member, or just a concerned guest looking in) who has professional experience in the PR field who can give advices?

Are there any bilingual speakers who are prepared to get involved here ?

Who is prepared to draw up a list of all elected representatives on the island, their party affiliation, contact details, whether they speak English etc ?

Who will undertake Market Research to help demonstrate what damage might be done to certain areas if the clampdown continues and succeeds in closing off many accommodation options. Going into detail, such as say, for Oasis del Sur - how many bars, restaurants, excursion shops etc are there, how many do they employ (minefield, as many illegally employed :() etc etc This would require accurate data regarding the number of units that are legal and available as well.

Would members support the idea of setting up a Fund to help pay for professional advice of a lawyer etc where necessary ?

Over to you folks ... bearing in mind that criticism of the current law or of the political system actually achieves very little :) Some of the posts in our long running Illegal Lettings thread would be relevant here and perhaps they can be reposted.

9PLUS
26-11-2011, 08:47
Lets hope you get it all together for the public meeting in the south on the 15th of December


Maybe you could get them in knots

Peterrayner
26-11-2011, 09:09
It will be interesting to see the turn out.

I will try to get bi-lingual representation at the meeting.

I would hope that many local businesses will turn out (ex-pat and local owners)

A little bit sceptical of its intent and its timing.

Added after 22 minutes:

Another suggestion

If any members have contacts with local press newspapers and readio etc could we get this meeting announced to the widest possible market ???

A full front page spread in the Canarian Weekly might be helpful. :wink2:

sunspot
27-11-2011, 00:44
This Date is marked off in my Diary, i hope they have a huge venue because the Local interest concerning this matter is massive, i will also bring along my interpreter

Peterrayner
27-11-2011, 00:47
This Date is marked off in my Diary, i hope they have a huge venue because the Local interest concerning this matter is massive, i will also bring along my interpreter

Venue not yet announced but indications are it will be based in Adeje.

Good to hear that local interest is high.

sunspot
27-11-2011, 00:54
Yes Peter, nobody knows what will come out of this meeting but if for the Villa owners some clarification would be a start because at the moment there is absolutly nothing they are allowed to do or can do for that matter

Peterrayner
27-11-2011, 00:58
Yes Peter, nobody knows what will come out of this meeting but if for the Villa owners some clarification would be a start because at the moment there is absolutly nothing they are allowed to do or can do for that matter

I hope Canarian businesses are interested as well...shops bars restaurants and not least the taxi drivers.

This needs promulgating through the local press both English and Spanish

Angusjim
27-11-2011, 08:51
I hope Canarian businesses are interested as well...shops bars restaurants and not least the taxi drivers.

This needs promulgating through the local press both English and Spanish

Good word Peter never heard it before but then I am a moron :ashamed:

9PLUS
27-11-2011, 09:12
Good word Peter never heard it before but then I am a moron :ashamed:



I Concur...



x

Angusjim
27-11-2011, 09:18
I Concur...



x

Thanks !! I think :agree:???

golf birdie
27-11-2011, 10:54
I remember the meeting when the law was 1st talked about. The loudest voices came from the people managing the apartments, most of whom were not legal themselfs. Not much has changed and I expect they will be the loudest again this time.

sunspot
27-11-2011, 11:09
I remember the meeting when the law was 1st talked about. The loudest voices came from the people managing the apartments, most of whom were not legal themselfs. Not much has changed and I expect they will be the loudest again this time.

I think the loudest voices this time will be the villa owners and agents,at least the apartment owners know what they need to do to let,the villas have been given no choice but to stop letting,its got to change

golf birdie
27-11-2011, 11:15
I think the loudest voices this time will be the villa owners and agents,at least the apartment owners know what they need to do to let,the villas have been given no choice but to stop letting,its got to change

the loudest voices should be the local businesses and taxi drivers. Taxis stand to lose a lot as once lettings go in house so will the airport transfers.

TOTO 99
27-11-2011, 12:07
the loudest voices should be the local businesses and taxi drivers. Taxis stand to lose a lot as once lettings go in house so will the airport transfers.

With that in mind, I'm surprised there's been nothing from the likes of Michael O'leary regarding this situation. Ryanair's Canary hub could well be affected. He's a sharp guy but I can't help but feel he doesn't even know about the situation. I don't like him but I'd like to here his opinion...

Angusjim
27-11-2011, 12:36
With that in mind, I'm surprised there's been nothing from the likes of Michael O'leary regarding this situation. Ryanair's Canary hub could well be affected. He's a sharp guy but I can't help but feel he doesn't even know about the situation. I don't like him but I'd like to here his opinion...


Perhaps Susie F can have a word with her uncle to put him straight :laugh:

Tenerife Villas
27-11-2011, 12:37
I look forward to some wider debate on this and I will be at this meeting I am furious at the monopoly unity of exploitation part of this law.


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karinagal
27-11-2011, 12:41
I think the loudest voices this time will be the villa owners and agents,at least the apartment owners know what they need to do to let,the villas have been given no choice but to stop letting,its got to change

Does this mean that James Villas will have to stop advertising villas to rent in the Canary Islands?


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fonica
27-11-2011, 12:55
Lets hope you get it all together for the public meeting in the south on the 15th of December


Maybe you could get them in knots Is this already becoming an anti Spanish issue? Just remember many Spanish people read this forum and it doesn't help any cause to irritate the people who allow us to live in their country.

Loaded
27-11-2011, 13:00
I will be attending the meeting.

My views are that the law itself is a good idea and there should be only one management agent per complex (but then I would wouldn't I? lol) .

I think there is room for a private rental sector but only if it is regulated. The latest laws from october 2010 intend for the following types of accommodation :

Hotel establishments:

Hotels - 1 star to 5 and 5 star luxury
Urban Hotels 1*-5* + 5*L
Hotel Emblematico (landmark)
Rural Hotel

Other establishments

Apartment 1 key, 2 key, 3 STAR 4* 5*
VILLA
Casa emblematica (landmark house)
rural house
Aparthotels

I think we would be wasting our time trying to have the law thrown out, but the best way forward I can see is to create a NEW CATEGORY for private rentals.

I don't think it would be fair to allow any complex to enter into this scheme as it would not be fair on residents who bought their property to be away from holiday makers - therefore I think it should be allowed on those complexes who cannot achieve 50%+1 but were traditionally or originally holiday complexes, for example: Sur Y Sol, Port Royale, and others who have lost their status due to a sole agent going out of business, leaving or falling below the 50%+1 threshold.

They should all still be registered and have to adhere to tourist board standards and some new regulations with them specifically in mind.

Angusjim
27-11-2011, 13:23
Is this already becoming an anti Spanish issue? Just remember many Spanish people read this forum and it doesn't help any cause to irritate the people who allow us to live in their country.

Don't think its anti Spanish just people who have put millions of there hard earned money into Tenerife venting their feelings about a situation that affects them. I would like to think that if it happened in the UK to Spanish people they too would have the same right to vent their feelings.

cainaries
27-11-2011, 13:42
Would it be possible to ask if there are any plans to lift the Moratorium on issuing licences and, if so, when and for which types of properties? Then, at least, everyone would know where they stood even if they didn't like the reply. Until we know the answer to this I don't see how any constructive discussion can take place. (Sorry, Doreen, I don't mean to be negative in saying that!)

Certainly nothing anti-Spanish here in my view!

Peterrayner
27-11-2011, 14:23
Is this already becoming an anti Spanish issue? Just remember many Spanish people read this forum and it doesn't help any cause to irritate the people who allow us to live in their country.

They dont ALLOW us to live there we have a right to live there just has they have a right to live in the UK...EU Treaty IIRC

Angusjim
27-11-2011, 14:48
They dont ALLOW us to live there we have a right to live there just has they have a right to live in the UK...EU Treaty IIRC

Thats absolutley correct Peter and just to reinforce our bond with Spain we are going to donate 5 billion pounds to their anticipated bailout fund isn't the EU just great :tiphat::crazy:

golf birdie
27-11-2011, 14:54
Thats absolutley correct Peter and just to reinforce our bond with Spain we are going to donate 5 billion pounds to their anticipated bailout fund isn't the EU just great :tiphat::crazy:



doubt they will need a bail out once the fines are in :cheeky:

sunspot
27-11-2011, 18:07
Does this mean that James Villas will have to stop advertising villas to rent in the Canary Islands?

I have spoken to James villas and other villa letting agencies in the uk but they dont see it as thier problem, its the owners risk if they want to rent out their villa


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I have spoken to James villas and other villa letting agencies in the uk but they dont see it as thier problem, its the owners risk if they want to rent out their villa

9PLUS
27-11-2011, 21:49
Is this already becoming an anti Spanish issue? Just remember many Spanish people read this forum and it doesn't help any cause to irritate the people who allow us to live in their country.



What you on about fonica?

Loaded
30-11-2011, 08:58
This is gathering pace....

9PLUS
30-11-2011, 10:02
The Lobbying continues...................




xx

Peterrayner
30-11-2011, 10:51
You guys taking your knitting to the execution oops sorry meeting then.

delderek
30-11-2011, 11:30
In practice it's probably going to end up as a shouting match, with the law being explained (which most people know already). But any hope of changing things is I fear pie in the sky.

Loaded
30-11-2011, 11:57
I'm defo taking the knitting, only so many days left to Xmas you know

jogger321
30-11-2011, 12:34
What is the purpose of this meeting?

Is there a published agenda?

Questions and answers at the end?

What are people hoping to achieve by attending?

malvasia
30-11-2011, 13:05
I have spoken to James villas and other villa letting agencies in the uk but they dont see it as thier problem, its the owners risk if they want to rent out their villa

Sorry, if I have missed the point here but............................. if you bought on a residencial complex, with the intent of holiday lets, then you must pay the price, IE: the fines. If you were unaware of the law/rules, then that is a failing on your part.
The same property on a touristic complex would most likely have been more expensive, so greed has played it's part. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Lastly, what about the residents who live on the complex and who work, they who dont want their facilites and peace and quiet disturbed by people on holiday.

moonlighter
30-11-2011, 13:10
Sorry, if I have missed the point here but............................. if you bought on a residencial complex, with the intent of holiday lets, then you must pay the price, IE: the fines. If you were unaware of the law/rules, then that is a failing on your part.
The same property on a touristic complex would most likely have been more expensive, so greed has played it's part. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Lastly, what about the residents who live on the complex and who work, they who dont want their facilites and peace and quiet disturbed by people on holiday.

Are we just going to go over & over the same opinions on this thread? If so it will just become the same as the other one. This thread is supposed to be about a lobbying campaign.

jogger321
30-11-2011, 13:11
Sorry, if I have missed the point here but............................. if you bought on a residencial complex, with the intent of holiday lets, then you must pay the price, IE: the fines. If you were unaware of the law/rules, then that is a failing on your part.
The same property on a touristic complex would most likely have been more expensive, so greed has played it's part. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Lastly, what about the residents who live on the complex and who work, they who dont want their facilites and peace and quiet disturbed by people on holiday.


Hang on but Amanda Lamb promised.......................................... ......................

malvasia
30-11-2011, 13:19
Are we just going to go over & over the same opinions on this thread? If so it will just become the same as the other one. This thread is supposed to be about a lobbying campaign.

Sorry for having an opinion !!!!!!!!!!!!!,
You are obviously facing a fine because you thought you were so clever you could ingnore the law. Pay your money and take your chance.......................... welcome to the real world.
BTW, dont worry about the guys who live there and have to work, no problem getting woken up nightly by people on holiday. If you want to run a business thats fine but you have to pay the charges and taxes the same as anyone else in business.

moonlighter
30-11-2011, 13:28
Sorry for having an opinion !!!!!!!!!!!!!,
You are obviously facing a fine because you thought you were so clever you could ingnore the law. Pay your money and take your chance.......................... welcome to the real world.
BTW, dont worry about the guys who live there and have to work, no problem getting woken up nightly by people on holiday. If you want to run a business thats fine but you have to pay the charges and taxes the same as anyone else in business.

Where did I say you are not allowed an opinion???

As for the rest of your post, you don't know me or anything about me rolleyes2:rolleyes2:

malvasia
30-11-2011, 13:44
Moonlighter, I dont want to getting into any sort of slanging match, not good for me, you, or the forum but can you just answer 1 question for me please. Why should people renting out property to make money be any different from the guy who has a bar or the woman who runs a shop, when it comes to obeying the law and paying the taxes in the country we live in ?. I am not in business in any way here in Tenerife, so no axe to grind over the rental laws and I my property is in an area where there are little or no tourist.

moonlighter
30-11-2011, 13:54
Moonlighter, I dont want to getting into any sort of slanging match, not good for me, you, or the forum but can you just answer 1 question for me please. Why should people renting out property to make money be any different from the guy who has a bar or the woman who runs a shop, when it comes to obeying the law and paying the taxes in the country we live in ?. I am not in business in any way here in Tenerife, so no axe to grind over the rental laws and I my property is in an area where there are little or no tourist.

They shouldn't.

I have no axe to grind either, I was just hoping that this thread would not just become a repeat of the illegal lettings thread, the main points of which have been lost in pages & pages of arguing, insults & wisecracks by certain members.
However between the two of us we seem to have made a pretty good start. :shy::shy:

Ahem! back on topic then :tiphat:

sunspot
30-11-2011, 13:56
Moonlighter, I dont want to getting into any sort of slanging match, not good for me, you, or the forum but can you just answer 1 question for me please. Why should people renting out property to make money be any different from the guy who has a bar or the woman who runs a shop, when it comes to obeying the law and paying the taxes in the country we live in ?. I am not in business in any way here in Tenerife, so no axe to grind over the rental laws and I my property is in an area where there are little or no tourist.

The problem is some of these villa owners are paying tax in Tenerife,its the property thats not legal....................no licence

malvasia
30-11-2011, 14:09
The problem is some of these villa owners are paying tax in Tenerife,its the property thats not legal....................no licence


Sunspot........................................ My point exactly. If the property was bought to rent out, then 1 of 2 thing are obvious.
1: The owner thought he would get away with paying tax, most likely ANY tax at all.
2: The owner bought the property without doing any research into the law and taxes.

As Alexanda would say............................................... .. Simples !!!

sunspot
30-11-2011, 14:19
Oh you make it sound so simple dont you? in fact the they were getting alot more tax from these owners than you think,from me for monies made from renting and management
and from the owners,not forgetting the Taxis,hire car...............the list is endless,dont make it sound so cut and dry its not that easy and if these owners were allowed a licence when they asked for one then it would all be a completely different ballgame but the tourist board chose to ignor them for so long so the blame is not only one sided

nelson
30-11-2011, 14:25
lets be sensible, the original illegal lettings thread is for straight arguments between illegal letting supporters and pro privatr legal letting supporters.

surely this thread is meant for a construtive change in the letting law, to provide for legal small renting, and a full legal challenge to the current fines which are being imposed.Doreen originally also asked for canarian interest groups to come on board to join this lobby group.

Perhaps the pro the present letting law people need to start a seperate thread to form a lobby group to fight together to retain the present laws ?

surely it will keep things on topic if people have the on going debate on the first lettings thread, but then further their seperate lobby issues on their repective threads ?

sunspot
30-11-2011, 14:29
Sorry nelson,i agree wrong thread to argue about right or wrong

Loaded
30-11-2011, 16:10
Exactly what changes do you want to see happen to the law? They won't throw it all out. The best angle would be to regulate private let's somehow but you need to think it through.

The independent villas have the best and most sympathetic argument , the moratorium is all that prevents them from registering.

Private apartments are not even in the tourist laws so that is a much harder thing to propose to be included as a kind of tourist accommodation

sunspot
30-11-2011, 16:18
What the villa owners are asking is to be allowed the permit to let their villas ,they know there are strict health and safety issues but these are in place in all the villas i manage,they have to be to because James villa do have a strict rule on health and safety,the owners want to be registered with the tourist board,no one likes the threat of " the inspector calls" hanging over them,these owners are receiving their fines but then what?

The fines being issued are for advertising to let short term and not having the "Libros de reclamacion" but how does that work, we have them for our management business so surely this covers the business we manage

nelson
30-11-2011, 16:35
villa holidays could be massive in the canaries, a large untapped market. The driving force for that would be the private renters with internet ads. These tourists would be likely to book online and hire a car at the airport, then do their own thing all around the islands. I have had this type of customer at our places, first time on the island so no need to argue about poaching others clients here. They dont go around the pool or stay in the resort. They are up every morning and exploring in their hire cars.

With these customers you are competing against french gillets, tuscan hill villas etc. The islands are messing up a whole new aspect of tourism when they interfere with this. Of course renting out in all those other countries is not an offence or against the law, and there appears to be no harm coming to all these independanr travellors because they have no 24 hour receptions or letting agents to go around holding their hands.

sunspot
30-11-2011, 16:43
villa holidays could be massive in the canaries, a large untapped market. The driving force for that would be the private renters with internet ads. These tourists would be likely to book online and hire a car at the airport, then do their own thing all around the islands. I have had this type of customer at our places, first time on the island so no need to argue about poaching others clients here. They dont go around the pool or stay in the resort. They are up every morning and exploring in their hire cars.

With these customers you are competing against french gillets, tuscan hill villas etc. The islands are messing up a whole new aspect of tourism when they interfere with this. Of course renting out in all those other countries is not an offence or against the law, and there appears to be no harm coming to all these independanr travellors because they have no 24 hour receptions or letting agents to go around holding their hands.


Villa Holidays are massive here already and the ones i know about have 24 hour call out to the clients,no reception but still a great service offered to the clients who in my opinion are the important ones

Added after 2 minutes:


Villa Holidays are massive here already and the ones i know about have 24 hour call out to the clients,no reception but still a great service offered to the clients who in my opinion are the important ones

The uk are now very worried about this situation and are sending representatives over as soon as the meeting venue is arranged

Loaded
30-11-2011, 17:02
The Uk? Who's the uk?

sunspot
30-11-2011, 17:06
The Uk? Who's the uk?

Many travel firms from the British isle are now taking this very seriously,(they shoud do) and are now wanting to be at the meeting because then its their business thats affected big time

phillip
30-11-2011, 17:35
Let's hope that the economy carriers such as Ryanair and EasyJet hear about this as this could impact on their business considerably.

Loaded
30-11-2011, 17:55
Yeah I can only imagine this could affect budget airlines . It's not going to affect accommodation specialists at all, in fact it should help

Although I doubt they'll be represented at this meeting

sunspot
30-11-2011, 17:57
Yeah I can only imagine this could affect budget airlines . It's not going to affect accommodation specialists at all, in fact it should help

Although I doubt they'll be represented at this meeting

If there are no legal villas in Tenerife or Lanzarote then what will happen to the villa rental companies?

Loaded
30-11-2011, 18:02
Good point I'd forgotten about them sorry

So James will be there...

sunspot
30-11-2011, 18:11
Good point I'd forgotten about them sorry

So James will be there...

Yes they will

Loaded
30-11-2011, 18:16
You mean "yes he will" lol

I'm right behind the villas in this k don't think it's fair on them at all

sunspot
30-11-2011, 18:30
You mean "yes he will" lol

I'm right behind the villas in this k don't think it's fair on them at all

He will represented,it is a nightmare but we will just have to see what can be saved out of this situation

welshman
30-11-2011, 20:34
This is what happens in Portugal since 2008 Why can,t this happen?

Owning and Letting Holiday Accommodation in Portugal

Owners of property in Portugal can rent the property for short-term lettings (according to Portuguese bylaw 517/2008 that regulates Decree 39/2008), however the industry is regulated.

Owners must register their properties with the Town Hall (Câmara) as a Local Accommodation Establishment (Estabelecimento de Alojamento Local) and receive a habitation permit.

"Local Accommodation" includes villas and apartments that don't fulfil the requirements necessary to be considered a tourist development, but whose owners provide temporary accommodation in return for payment.

The villas and apartments classified as Alojamento Local must meet the legal requirements for safety and hygiene. Only registered and licensed villas or apartments may be advertised as local accommodation (for short-term rentals or seasonal rentals) by their owners, travel agencies or tourist offices, and they must be advertised as "Alojamento Local" or "AL".

Legal Requirements
The exterior and interior of the building must be well-maintained and in good condition
The premises must be connected to the mains water supply or have a private, controlled water system
The premises must be connected to the mains sewer system or have a septic tank that has the capacity to handle the wastewater created if the property is at maximum capacity
Cold and hot water must be available
The bedrooms must have good ventilation and air circulation provided by a window or other access to the exterior of the building
The premises must have furniture and appropriate equipment and utensils
Windows should have a system for preventing the entry of light
Doors must have locks or a similar system that affords guests privacy
One bathroom must be provided for every three bedrooms, and include a sink, bath or shower with a lock
Guests must be advised of the rules of the property by the operators of the Alojamento Local
An official Complaints Book (Livro de Reclamações) must be kept on the premises and be available at all times
Insurance
All property must be insured. Under legislation, all property requiring a rental license must produce the gas and electricity certificates. Gas inspection certificates must be renewed every five years; house insurance is void for fire or explosion if no current certificate is in place. Should there be a claim and it is deemed by the insurance company that the property is not up to standard, then the likelihood is that there could be a reduction, or refusal, of settlement. Insurance companies recommend that a "Tourist Letting" rider be included on a policy.

Note: Public liability insurance does not necessarily cover paying guests although it does cover non-paying guests. Ensure the proper insurance is in place to cover injury or damage to paying guests and their property.

Hygiene requirements
The guest rooms and linens must be cleaned at least once a week and when a new guest arrives.

Safety requirements
Prior to opening for business, the premises must be equipped with safety equipment. Equipment requirements vary according to the size of the property and number of guests it can accommodate.

The capacity of the property is determined by the number and type of beds at the property. There may not be more convertible beds than regular beds. Removable beds/cots are not limited in quantity.

For facilities accommodating fewer than 50 people (check with the Town Hall for required quantities):

Fire extinguisher
Fire blankets
First aid kit
Manuals for appliances or information about how to use them
A notice clearly indicating the local emergency phone number (Tel: 112)
For facilities accommodating more than 50 persons (check with the Town Hall for required quantities):

Fire extinguishers
Fire blankets
First aid kits
Manuals for appliances or information about how to use them
A notice clearly indicating the local emergency phone number (Tel: 112)
Fire protection measures and a declaration of responsibility by the owner
The following may also be required: (check with the Town Hall)

Smoke alarms
Carbon monoxide detectors
Gas detectors
Within 60 days of application, the Town Hall should inspect the property in order to confirm that the legal requirements are met. If it is determined the property does not meet requirements, guests can no longer be accepted.

How to Register
The following documents are required in order to register as an Alojamento Local:

A completed registration form (available from the local Town Hall)
Proof of ownership of the premises to be registered
The deeds (caderneta predial) filed with the Land Registry (Caderneta)
A valid habitation permit (issued by the Câmara)
Safety declarations issued by qualified technicians that certify that electrical, gas and boiler installations meet legal operating requirements
A floorplan of the accommodation to be licenced (the floorplan may be for the building in its entirety or just the area to be licenced)
After the application has been submitted, a stamped copy is returned to the applicant. Once this process has been completed, the applicant may begin taking bookings for the property.

Advertising
Any advertising of the accommodation must include the letters "AL" or the words "Alojamento Local" after the name. A sign issued by the Câmara must be displayed near the main entrance to the premises.

Complaints
An official Complaints Book (Livro de Reclamações) must be kept on the premises at all times. If a complaint is lodged, the original complaint sheet must be sent to the Food Safety and Economic Authority (Autoridade de Segurança Alimentar e Económica/ASAE), which will investigate the claim

golf birdie
30-11-2011, 20:39
This is what happens in Portugal since 2008 Why can,t this happen?



because idiots are running the asylum.

nelson
30-11-2011, 21:40
thanks welshman thats very significant legally. The portugese example appears mostly commonsense. I am a bit suprised at some of the naany state dictats about cleanliness etc, not that I am against the standards, but just suprised its in the regulations.

The health and safety stuff is spot on and in everybodies interest. The thing in the canaries is, because the government made small independant letting illegal and so it went underground, it abdicated the responsibility to properly regulate the private apartments.

The significant legal aspect is that the small independant apartment renter in the canaries is at an unfair competitive position to the guy in portugal , the canary guy has to be within the single letting agency with 51% of a complex. This is totally unfair if his portugese competitor is allowed to rent out his apartment on his own.

I would propose our lobby group pushes for an end to the 1995 law and regulation based on this portugese standard.

9PLUS
30-11-2011, 21:51
50% + 1 again nellys son

BobMac
30-11-2011, 22:00
Other than the Portuguese took a different legal approach to the same issue, which has no significance in the Canaries - they are on a completely different legal system, the situation in Portugal is totally irrelevant in the Canaries.

There is also the additional problem that you still have to address the difference between tourist and residential complexes.

I can't see the Canarian government altering the complex classifications, the uproar about letting is nothing compared to the uproar which would ensue if they reclassified all the residential complexes as touristic.

I also can't seriously see the Canarian government caving in to a group of disgruntled foreigners, most of who were totally aware of the law which they have been caught breaking.

Loaded
30-11-2011, 22:16
Wow I can see this going nowhere.

If anything is going to he changed in this law then you need to read the entire law and not just the part that throws a spanner in your works.

Then and only then will you realise that the law will never be overturned or thrown out.

BobMac
30-11-2011, 22:41
thanks welshman thats very significant legally. The portugese example appears mostly commonsense. I am a bit suprised at some of the naany state dictats about cleanliness etc, not that I am against the standards, but just suprised its in the regulations.

The health and safety stuff is spot on and in everybodies interest. The thing in the canaries is, because the government made small independant letting illegal and so it went underground, it abdicated the responsibility to properly regulate the private apartments.

The significant legal aspect is that the small independant apartment renter in the canaries is at an unfair competitive position to the guy in portugal , the canary guy has to be within the single letting agency with 51% of a complex. This is totally unfair if his portugese competitor is allowed to rent out his apartment on his own.

I would propose our lobby group pushes for an end to the 1995 law and regulation based on this portugese standard.

It's only significant legally if you own property in Portugal, if you don't it's completely irrelevant.

welshman
30-11-2011, 23:44
Just a point there is a un fair claim being put to the Spanish government regarding unfair treatment of non res regarding In heritance tax which is found to be illegal in the eyes of the european court? Another law that been taken up and the Spanish government have I think 2 months to look at and bring inline or possible fines will be imposed. Nothing is impossible if enough people back the need for change it may take time but its possible with people power. Go for it.

Saltnpepper
02-12-2011, 10:54
Is this already becoming an anti Spanish issue? Just remember many Spanish people read this forum and it doesn't help any cause to irritate the people who allow us to live in their country.

I don't see it as an anti-Spanish issue as we are also voicing our concerns about the local businesses, taxi drivers etc, the majority of whom are Spanish & depend on tourism for their livelihoods

Added after 3 minutes:


I will be attending the meeting.

My views are that the law itself is a good idea and there should be only one management agent per complex (but then I would wouldn't I? lol) .

I think there is room for a private rental sector but only if it is regulated. The latest laws from october 2010 intend for the following types of accommodation :

Hotel establishments:

Hotels - 1 star to 5 and 5 star luxury
Urban Hotels 1*-5* + 5*L
Hotel Emblematico (landmark)
Rural Hotel

Other establishments

Apartment 1 key, 2 key, 3 STAR 4* 5*
VILLA
Casa emblematica (landmark house)
rural house
Aparthotels

I think we would be wasting our time trying to have the law thrown out, but the best way forward I can see is to create a NEW CATEGORY for private rentals.

I don't think it would be fair to allow any complex to enter into this scheme as it would not be fair on residents who bought their property to be away from holiday makers - therefore I think it should be allowed on those complexes who cannot achieve 50%+1 but were traditionally or originally holiday complexes, for example: Sur Y Sol, Port Royale, and others who have lost their status due to a sole agent going out of business, leaving or falling below the 50%+1 threshold.

They should all still be registered and have to adhere to tourist board standards and some new regulations with them specifically in mind.

Hi Loaded, where can I find info about the laws on the different types of establishment permitted, as you have listed above please? Particularly interested in the "rural house" category ... Thanks

sunspot
02-12-2011, 11:03
Have been looking at the Tourist Board statistics and the airline Statistics and you can see there is almost double the people coming into Tenerife on the airlines,who are these people?

andyb
02-12-2011, 11:40
Have been looking at the Tourist Board statistics and the airline Statistics and you can see there is almost double the people coming into Tenerife on the airlines,who are these people?

I'm one. I live in Tenerife but work overseas. I have 5 friends who do the same. You (presumably) return to your original country occasionally. There are many non-Canarians who are not holidaymakers.

Do the airlnes give any distinction between holiday and business travel? I frequently use Spanair to Madrid, it's the easiest way to get to the Middle East where I work. The flight is usually full, but not with holidaymakers.

delderek
02-12-2011, 12:08
I think the figures are 10% up against last year, which I believe was a pretty dismal year

moonlighter
02-12-2011, 12:14
And the effect of the clampdown will not show until at least next year

delderek
02-12-2011, 12:36
And the effect of the clampdown will not show until at least next year

But with the worsening economic situation in Europe and the UK, it will never be able to be compared.

nelson
02-12-2011, 15:08
I heard in resort in october that the hotels were pulling more visitors in with ai deals, but of course this does not help bars and restuarants. In my opinion the hotels would be doing the ai deals like most business's in the crissis, that is at a silly busy price. Probabley has got them down with all the extra work for poor returns.

As for anti spanish nature to our campaign, no not at all. The people who will be affected most will be the canarians due to the collaspe in the local economy. The whole islands depend on tourism , reducing visitor numbers is going to impact right across the island economy , which is in a perilous state before this started.You have to look weel beyond the obvious touristic employment to see where the economy will be affected.

I stand by what I have said throughout this , that the difference in our countries recent histories is much to blame for all of this mess. The 1995 law was blantently protectionist, it was brought in at the request of the hotels who feared competition from apartments. Their voice was listened to and a law put in place. In my opinion this was a throwback to the closed spanish economy of the franco years. An economy where free enterprise was the system , but if you had friends in the government you would enjoy privliges. This protectionist economy just stagnated and the mass of the spanish population endured decades of poverty. None of us can argue with the logic of the hotels, a law to protect their interests is in their commercial advantage. The problem is that this situation is not in the interests of the wider population.

The other strange thing about this affair is that no canarian political groups are debating the rights or wrongs of the issue. You would think that this issue would have already produced some lively debate both ways , with arguments pro or against.

For success our campaign will need to involve canarians as well, but I think that even the government will relent on its own once it sees the mess it is going to create with the islands economy.

Muppet
02-12-2011, 17:19
Nelso, you are a fool (with respect)

As I've posted elsewhere until the Canarians themselves are affected by this law they wont support a campaign to change it - why should they bother?

The vast majority of those you claim will be affected - restaurants and bars and so on are run by "foreigners" - the Canarians have no interest in "us" in terms of our businesses. Their laws make them damned difficult to open and run as it is - a few less "foreigners" for them to support would be seen as a godsend at the moment.

Bringing Franco into the equasion (again) is also not such a smart idea either. He wasn't universally hated.

9PLUS
02-12-2011, 18:25
nelson just pay up man and move on

bonitatime
02-12-2011, 18:41
I dont think Nelson you have an understanding how the average Canarian regards the south of the islands. Either here in Tenerife or in Gran Canaria, the tourist centres are almost ignored unless they are providing money or in the summer when they are thinking about a holiday. The 45 mins to reach the south might as well be a trip to the moon.
Rightly or wrongly

Tenerife Villas
02-12-2011, 19:31
any news on the location of the meeting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nelson
02-12-2011, 22:56
the fool doth think he is wise,but the wise man knows himself to be but a fool,


Wiliam Shakespeare

Loaded
02-12-2011, 23:11
Glad you agree regardless

Sundowner
02-12-2011, 23:23
the fool doth think he is wise,but the wise man knows himself to be but a fool,


Wiliam Shakespeare

A winner listens, a loser just waits until it is their turn to talk.:wink2:

Loaded
02-12-2011, 23:26
It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations.

9PLUS
03-12-2011, 00:12
One carrot and a bag of peas, soup can be food and not just a drink




hows about that then dear


X

AJP
03-12-2011, 01:25
Wow you wait years for threads on tenerife lettings (well since 1995) and three come along together.How sad that when this one was started by Doreen to try and engage people who care about the overall effect this law will undoubtily have on the island it has been hijacked by those people whose self interest is now becoming so nausiating its untue.Little sarcastic comments about "lobbying gathering pace " dont do you any favours, some people do care about this subject,this thread is for them,so carry on your self promotion on the other threads and leave this one to, as Doreen stated as the OP to try and do something positive.

TenerifePool
03-12-2011, 03:48
One has to ask the question, "how can a lobbying campaign be successful when there is no consensus?"

There seems to be an (often silent) majority in favour (either in it's entirity or in part) of the 1995 law, with those shouting loudest being those who have found their little cash generator at risk.

tonypub
03-12-2011, 04:31
if anyone needs an apartment to rent(holiday let)pm me,ill get what you need:wink:but not xmas time,tenerifes full

Loaded
03-12-2011, 04:31
Wow you wait years for threads on tenerife lettings (well since 1995) and three come along together.How sad that when this one was started by Doreen to try and engage people who care about the overall effect this law will undoubtily have on the island it has been hijacked by those people whose self interest is now becoming so nausiating its untue.Little sarcastic comments about "lobbying gathering pace " dont do you any favours, some people do care about this subject,this thread is for them,so carry on your self promotion on the other threads and leave this one to, as Doreen stated as the OP to try and do something positive.

I think my comment actually gave the thread a much needed bump.

I've already pledged my support to this cause but there is hardly anyone else out there it seems who is actually interested in doing anything.

Yes there are people waffling on about Franco or moaning about others self promoting (by people I mean you), grow and pair and say who you're talking about with your pithy comments .

nelson
03-12-2011, 10:10
We were saying this the other day, this thread is for positive lobbying to change the 1995 letting law, I propose to ask for legal small independant letting on the portugese standard. Arguments for or against should be on other threads, this thread was born out of those arguments. The lobby group will grow as more apartment owners will find out that they have been fined, many will not realise at this time. Also it is inevitable canarian business's become involved , there are mant canary restuarants in the south in all the resorts. los cristo must be 80 % canary reasturants/cafes.

This is going to take time but growth of the lobby group , canary wide is inevitable. Much work on the ground can be done now, approaching canary business's and politicians. At least at this stage there now exists a movement to begin growing and be there in the future as this thing grows.

I only talk about spains history as I do see this as relevant to the present situation. To brits all this mess is unfalthomable, an unenforced law for 15 years, suddenly a huge crackdown. We all need to try and explain what seems a sureal situation, my thoughts on it are that it is a protectionist law , out of place with the modern free world, but just like the old days in spain. Of course by pointing this out I am making the point that anti competitive laws are not alowed in europe today, and standards europe wide are expected to be in harmony.

It would help other posters to come onto this thread without so much aggresive counter arguments. Best thing is if knockers read posts on this thread , then go to the illegal let thread and rant on there.

eg, you want to read what that prat nelson has just said on the lobbying thread blah,blah,blah. I promise to come over to that thread and give as good as i get now and again.

Muppet
03-12-2011, 10:28
Here is a proposal.

You and others are quite correct, what we have here is yet another thread churning over the same comments and thoughts from those who have been vocal.

Doreen. How about asking for those who are prepared to put their names down as affected owners prepared to formally join a lobby group to PM you with their details. You then simply put a count of those who have contacted you and how many "properties" they represent in a "sticky thing" at the top of this thread. No need to put names or property in if for the moment, just a simple count.

That way, all forum members can lend their support to the concept of a lobby group without necessarily coming out of the wookwork at this stage.

As the numbers become apparent over the next week or two, those who intend to go to the public meeting will have an idea of just how many members of this forum are directly involved and the strength of the campaign for change.

Just a thought

Loaded
03-12-2011, 11:11
Good shout

Tom & Sharon
03-12-2011, 11:57
the fool doth think he is wise,but the wise man knows himself to be but a fool,


Wiliam Shakespeare

A fool and his money are soon parted!!

And the campaign continues.

Peterrayner
03-12-2011, 12:42
A fool and his money are soon parted!!

And the campaign continues.

I am somewhat cynical about the true intentions of this public meeting.

I note the locsation has still not been announced. I suggest this is just a publicity execise really and not inteneded as a "forum" for debating the matter or the consequences of the actions for that matter.

I cant see the point also of joining in the somewhat snide and off topic banter in this thread. :(

somewhat surprised a lot of it hasnt been assigned to the bin (dungeon).

sunspot
03-12-2011, 12:52
The location will be announced next week Peter and for anyone interested in going and asking questions then this thread is not the place to ask because its been used not in the manner Doreen intended,i will wait to put my questions forward,to me and alot of people involved this thread is nothing short of a joke

Peterrayner
03-12-2011, 13:14
I leaves me with a bitter taste in my mouth really. the fact gthat I am expected to arrange a flight to be represented at such short notice is farcical.

TBH I think the thread was a mistake. The only relevant forum for this subject is the official meeting but has I said before I doub that is its intention anyway.

Loaded
03-12-2011, 13:40
Who expected you to fly over for it Peter?

Muppet
03-12-2011, 13:41
I would say, from reading into the JA info, that the meeting is most certainly not a forum for debate, it seems it is part of an awareness and information drive by Tourismo on the letting laws and one of many that have/will take place over the coming months as the fines begin to kick in.

The Government would not have begun to enforce the law if they had any intention of reviewing any particular sections of it - after all, they have had almost 16 years to do that had either they wanted to, or the strength of feeling was such that it was felt to be dangerous for members or parliament's chances of re-election.

I suggest that those who attend will come away with two specific things.

Firstly the reasons why the Government decided to enforce the law. This will be explained away as being necessary because of the explosion of uncontrolled letting in the last few years, especially with the growth of the internet for bookings - something which was not entirely envisaged 16 years ago etc. Probably no mention will be made publically that the real reality is the Government is skint and enforcing this law, together with the relentless clampdown on employment and working regulations is the easiest, and probably one of the very few options they have to get in desperately needed money.

Secondly, and in the most part because of the "real" reasons above, there isn't a cat in hell's chance of the law being adapted in any way, shape or form which is likely to line predominantly foreigners pockets with cash. Modifications which might bring villas and Apart-Hotels into line will of course be being considered under the banner of control, but again the reality will actually be because the necessary inspections and associated licences and paperwork will be another potential income stream for the Government.

It really is not difficult to see where this is all going.

Cynical thought - depending on how desperate for cash the Government really is, such a meeting could be an absolute money spinner - make sure you wear an appropriate disguise / don't leave finger prints, and don't divulge your true identity if you are going!!

Peterrayner
03-12-2011, 13:45
Who expected you to fly over for it Peter?

Nobody really.... certainly not those organising the meeting.

Tom & Sharon
03-12-2011, 14:14
I am somewhat cynical about the true intentions of this public meeting.

I note the locsation has still not been announced. I suggest this is just a publicity execise really and not inteneded as a "forum" for debating the matter or the consequences of the actions for that matter.

I cant see the point also of joining in the somewhat snide and off topic banter in this thread. :(

somewhat surprised a lot of it hasnt been assigned to the bin (dungeon).

OK then back on topic!

Good luck with the campaign,however for those that wish to see change,if you think the Canarian Government gives two figs for the wishes of Johnny English in his campaign to change the 1995 letting laws in the Canaries you are DELUDING yourselves.

I'll make no further comment on this thread.

Tom

Peterrayner
03-12-2011, 14:17
OK then back on topic!

Good luck with the campaign,however for those that wish to see change,if you think the Canarian Government gives two figs for the wishes of Johnny English in his campaign to change the 1995 letting laws in the Canaries you are DELUDING yourselves.

I'll make no further comment on this thread.

Tom

I will not be taking part in any campaign. :)

welshman
03-12-2011, 18:19
I think the best plan of action to get No,s to support is to contact every owner on Hlet, HRent, Own Dir, as there are many hundreds of apartment owners that are totally unaware of whats going on. (They will when their fined.) Send Standard statement of whats going on emailed to apartment owners will soon have your No,s up. Spoke to two owners over the last week had no idea what was going on.I directed them to the forum as it is still not widely known whats going on in the Island,s, because this is not Tenerife only?.

AJP
03-12-2011, 23:12
Loaded:
Two reasons why I never mentioned you by name in my post .
1 I wasnt only refereing to you exclusivley,there are others who practise self promotion whilst commenting on these threads
2 I dont see why I should link my posts to your posts.Any new members looking on these threads, maybe worrying about their lettings,see your posts and at the bottom see the words "looking for Tenerife accomodation" check out,Blah Blah Blah.
I know theres nothing wrong in this,but then you can,t complain about being accused of self promotion at the same time.Any way thats for another thread and another day.Maybe the lobbying will be done by those people with real influence,and the eventual results there for all to see.in the meantime good luck to you all

Loaded
03-12-2011, 23:38
Loaded:
Two reasons why I never mentioned you by name in my post .
1 I wasnt only refereing to you exclusivley,there are others who practise self promotion whilst commenting on these threads
2 I dont see why I should link my posts to your posts.Any new members looking on these threads, maybe worrying about their lettings,see your posts and at the bottom see the words "looking for Tenerife accomodation" check out,Blah Blah Blah.
I know theres nothing wrong in this,but then you can,t complain about being accused of self promotion at the same time.Any way thats for another thread and another day.Maybe the lobbying will be done by those people with real influence,and the eventual results there for all to see.in the meantime good luck to you all

Hmmm, my signature is in every post and mainly used to build up links for SEO rather than drumming up business in here.

I use myself as an example in this discussion as a way of discussing things openly without any hidden agenda. I don't see any financial benefit to being so open, I just don't want to be accused of having anterior motives - people can read my views knowing full well what I am.

If I wanted to self promote I'd hang around the property for rent section and latch onto every post .

I really think you're confusing self promotion with transparency.

sunspot
08-12-2011, 10:34
One week away and still no news of time and place for this meeting,its a farce

Peterrayner
08-12-2011, 10:48
absolutely ???

dont know if its a coincidence or not but that date will also co-respsond with the expiration of the 6 month dead line for the completion of the cases of the first notifications of fines issued to several owners in June thus year.



In accordance with the provisions of article 42 of Law 30/1992 on the Legal Regime of Public Administrations and Common Administrative Procedure, as amended by Law 4 / 1999, dated January 13, and article 4 of Decree 190/1996, of August 1, regulating the procedure for the exercise of sanctioning powers in tourism and inspection of tourism, the maximum term for the resolution and notice of this procedure is 6 months, after which, expiration occurs.

Red Devil
08-12-2011, 11:00
Whatever a few cynics on here predict, it is true there are a larger and larger number of people becoming aware of this problem.
The head of a large estate agency is very concerned, along with many, many others and they fully intend attending this meeting - once venue has been announced(!) word will be spread like wildfire - local people such as taxi drivers, shops, bars etc are now at last realising the significance of this ruling.
Perhaps a large attendance at the meeting will at least show the feelings of people - and there will be an English interpreter present. If you can attend, please do so.
Yes it is a joke that the venue etc hasnt been announced.

doreen
08-12-2011, 11:46
One week away and still no news of time and place for this meeting,its a farce

I was speaking with Jose Escobedo yesterday - the lawyer handling many of the appeals and co-organiser of this meeting along with lawyer Santiago Saenz. It now seems the authorities are less than willing to attend any meeting as they are not responding to attempts to finalise it :(

Muppet
08-12-2011, 12:10
That doesn't surprise me at all. I understood from JA that it was less a public meeting and more an info style roadshow setting out their position, their actions and so on.

Any thoughts on the Governments side that it might turn into a bun-fight and I would imagine they would want to be well out of it.

nelson
08-12-2011, 17:43
maybe Senor escobedo should still hold a meeting. He sounds like the best man for the spanish end of the legal challenge. It may be useful if interested partis, both canarian and foreign , can come together to discuss the issue. Interested parties across the water at home in europe can sign up to this campaign group hopefully too if a meeting takes place in tenerife, with or without the canary government attending.

doreen
15-12-2011, 23:34
Janet and i have been contacted with preliminary information about the proposed meeting ... no definite date as yet, but said to be agreed for the second half of January. Various heads of Department along with the Chief Inspector are expected to attend.

As soon as we have further information and definite times/place, we will let you know.

siliconephil
26-01-2012, 16:01
I think it's very intersting to note that the only people who appear to be bothered about this law are the Brits. There are plenty of Canarian people with apartments to rent who couldn't give two hoots and keep advertising and renting. It's also interesting to see that the majority of the fines are issued in the south in Tenerife.


Nelso, you are a fool (with respect)

As I've posted elsewhere until the Canarians themselves are affected by this law they wont support a campaign to change it - why should they bother?

The vast majority of those you claim will be affected - restaurants and bars and so on are run by "foreigners" - the Canarians have no interest in "us" in terms of our businesses. Their laws make them damned difficult to open and run as it is - a few less "foreigners" for them to support would be seen as a godsend at the moment.

Bringing Franco into the equasion (again) is also not such a smart idea either. He wasn't universally hated.

BobMac
26-01-2012, 16:07
I think it's very intersting to note that the only people who appear to be bothered about this law are the Brits. There are plenty of Canarian people with apartments to rent who couldn't give two hoots and keep advertising and renting. It's also interesting to see that the majority of the fines are issued in the south in Tenerife.

Couldn't agree more

Do they seriously think that the Canarian Government is actually going to pay any attention to the views of a load of foreign ex-pats who don't have a vote for the Canarian Government elections ??

Peterrayner
26-01-2012, 16:20
Couldn't agree more

Do they seriously think that the Canarian Government is actually going to pay any attention to the views of a load of foreign ex-pats who don't have a vote for the Canarian Government elections ??

No but the opinions of several local Canarian experienced lawyers might count for a lot especially if they have the backing of the taxi and other interested local businesses. :wink:

Making laws and investigations in haste and not weel thought out is always a bad idea at the end of the day. :wink:

Suzanne
26-01-2012, 16:41
Can the lawyers not use the Custom and Practise rule? ie. the law was never implemented and it has become custom and practise to turn a blind eye to people letting their properties. Hopefully a judge would see this.

Peterrayner
26-01-2012, 17:55
[QUOTE=Suzanne;139965]Can the lawyers not use the Custom and Practise rule? ie. the law was never implemented and it has become custom and practise to turn a blind eye to people letting their properties. Hopefully a judge would see this.[/QUOTE

They are playing their caards very close to their chest and letting the tourism authorities run and and run at the moment.

I think the old saying give em enough rope and they will hang themselves...must have been Spanish in origin :)

Loaded
26-01-2012, 17:59
but it has been implemented several times , this isn't the first time they've gone to town.

9PLUS
26-01-2012, 18:14
getting anywhere with this pot of lobby yet?


ZZZzzzz

Peterrayner
26-01-2012, 18:17
but it has been implemented several times , this isn't the first time they've gone to town.

Whilst that is strictly true... other campaigns have been relatively much smaller in numbers and I believe this is the first campaign principally against private "residential" home largely because of the extensive use of web site advertising.


getting anywhere with this pot of lobby yet?


ZZZzzzz

its simmering on the back burner atm :)

Simon-M
26-01-2012, 18:32
its simmering on the back burner atm :)

More like getting ready to explode :)

nelson
26-01-2012, 18:44
getting anywhere with this pot of lobby yet?


ZZZzzzz

well of course the campaign numbers will grow as people become aware of the fines, and of course the situation today involves many more private renters than at any time in the past. the use of internet advertising has also highlighted the situation to a greater degree than at any time in the past.

All the small renters today are a massive part of the canary tourist economy and as such support many canary businesss's, taxis,restuarants,shops and all the supply industries that support them.

it was always wrong for the canary government to attack them, what is needed is legalisation based on the portugese model, with apartments paying maybe 400 euro per year for a permit to the canary government

Sundowner
26-01-2012, 21:18
There is a problem if they do amend this law, they will have all the people who brought on residential complexes !!!who used this law to buy on non touristic complexes taking them to court...........

BobMac
26-01-2012, 21:37
There is a problem if they do amend this law, they will have all the people who brought on residential complexes !!!who used this law to buy on non touristic complexes taking them to court...........

The only people who can possibly be happy about this have got to be the lawyers - they are on a WIN - WIN whatever the authorities decide to do; if they maintain the status quo, they get money from the people who have been fined, if they change the rules to legalise letting on residential complexes, they make money from all the people who purchased on residential complexes to avoid tourists.

Personally I think if there is any relaxation of the law, it will probably be for touristic complexes only; the ramifications of changing it for residential complexes would string it out for years and cost them a lot of money.

cainaries
26-01-2012, 22:01
I'm only going to say this the once. Not everyone lives or rents on a complex. This law is a one-size-fits-all which doesn't fit all.

nelson
26-01-2012, 22:32
The only people who can possibly be happy about this have got to be the lawyers - they are on a WIN - WIN whatever the authorities decide to do; if they maintain the status quo, they get money from the people who have been fined, if they change the rules to legalise letting on residential complexes, they make money from all the people who purchased on residential complexes to avoid tourists.

Personally I think if there is any relaxation of the law, it will probably be for touristic complexes only; the ramifications of changing it for residential complexes would string it out for years and cost them a lot of money.

I thought at the start of this, before we were fined, that the canary government would only attack the renters on residential complexes. In my innocent mind I could not see what was so wrong in a dormant touristic site, that is one without the sole letting agent this crazy unfair law requires, but yet still lw=etting out at full capacity.

In my inocent mind I could not see the problem, here was a complex designed and registered as touristic full of happy tourists spending money to keep the canary economy moving forward. Only thing was its was all being done without the spare part sole agent bloke.

As we all now know the fines are in , these massive fines, on dormant touristic as wel as residential. Given that renting has taken place on residential complex,s for many years as well as touristic dormant complex, it is clear to me that the canary economy needs them all , especially in the southern resorts. A fee paying permit system should involve all types of complex, if they are in tourist zones then let them accomodate tourists. The people who object to tourist disturbance are living in the wrong environment for their feelings if they chose to live in holiday resorts.

Muppet
26-01-2012, 22:42
you forgot to mention that you think 400 euros a year is plenty for you to be paying .............. oh yes, and that Portugal have got it right by allowing letting through licensing - clearly hasn't worked for them though since the country is bankrupt ??

9PLUS
26-01-2012, 22:44
nelson there isn't any only tourist zones nor only holiday resorts in Tenerife it's not Butlins

nelson
26-01-2012, 22:53
you forgot to mention that you think 400 euros a year is plenty for you to be paying .............. oh yes, and that Portugal have got it right by allowing letting through licensing - clearly hasn't worked for them though since the country is bankrupt ??

the level of annual permit fee is a matter for the canary government to decide. They have to administer the permits and register the renters. There may need to be site visits to verify compliance with fire regs etc. Clearly I have in mind that the canary government should earn a good return each year from the fees after admin costs, but these need to be set at a level that does not kill the renters returns so as to make the letting unviable and discourage tourism.

portugal and spain are bankrupt for reasons not to do with allowing small private renting. That is quite another matter. The canary government is in my opinion , harming their economy by this attack on small private renting. It would be in the best interests of their struggling economy to legalise the renters, encourage them and accept a sensible annual permit charge from them all.

Muppet
26-01-2012, 22:56
I just so can't be arsed xx

9PLUS
26-01-2012, 23:05
I agree with the sole letting agent on a 24 hour reception makes perfect sense for a complex designated for tourism.

You can pay the annual fee to them it's already set up that way.

Even better still you only have to pay it if it's rented out

nelson
26-01-2012, 23:11
nelson there isn't any only tourist zones nor only holiday resorts in Tenerife it's not Butlins

here is an example of the blurred lines in resorts in the south with this touristic/residential complex issue. in los cristo hotel atlantida closed 2 years ago. It had struggled for years trying to keep going , bringing self catering guests to los cristo. A long eatablished place many apartments but struggling to be viable, yet vital to the los cristo economy. Then just up the road new build el mirador opens, with bars /restuarants built on it, but its residential. We know from the sucess of internet ads though, that the place is buzzing with so called illegal guests. So here you have a closed hotel bringing no one to the resort anymore but thankfully a large number of tourists in a new place just up the road. So the economy of los cristo has lost some trade but gained some to off set the loss.

The next stage would be the sale of the atlantida apartments to small private renters, we have seen this many times over the years. after a great deal of refurbing these apartments would be on the internet and rented out again, full of tourists again and benefiting the los cristo economy. That scenario is what the canary economy needs, not daft attacks on an important part of the tourist offering, to keep the panicking hotels happy ,who were upset in the crisis of 2008.

Added after 10 minutes:


I agree with the sole letting agent on a 24 hour reception makes perfect sense for a complex designated for tourism.

You can pay the annual fee to them it's already set up that way.

Even better still you only have to pay it if it's rented out

no one needs a 24 hour reception if they are staying in a self catering apartment. all over the world ,you can stay in villas,apartments,flats,caravans,tents,treehouses, houses etc and not need a 24 hour reception.

its just a silly thing the hotels came up with in 1995 to try to have apartments in line with them, so as to have similar overheads. This in effect meant that in the canaries tourist accomodation , was artifically made into hotels and nearly hotels. Because the world has self catering accomodation this makes the canary situation very odd, as the law in the islands seeks to hold back the existance of a basic holiday choice option, the self catering apartment.

9PLUS
26-01-2012, 23:25
Nelson find a sole agent and you'll be able to stop moaning

Loaded
26-01-2012, 23:35
So atlantida (legal accommodation) were doing very well thanks and then el mirador (illegal accommodation) came along and they struggled and ended up not doing as well and the main owner had to sell up thus screwing atlantida....

Can't imagine why this law's being enforced or why the hotel associations are backing it!

I think Nelson answers his own questions if given enough time to think

Added after 6 minutes:

Wow if Nelson had his way the private owners in residential complexes Would force all the other hotels and apartments out of business and it would be happy days for everyone - no one wants to stay in legal accommodation anyway!

9PLUS
26-01-2012, 23:46
I was going to say A Classic example of cheaper illegal accommodation being unfair to the legal


but i didn't know the history behind that place


Your complex is on a community not a stand-alone Nelson so it should have a communal 24hr reception for the tourist.


Makes perfect sense

Saltnpepper
27-01-2012, 00:26
So is there anything happening with regard to a new date for a meeting, does anyone know please?

doreen
27-01-2012, 00:47
So is there anything happening with regard to a new date for a meeting, does anyone know please?

No news, I am afraid ... Janet and I will be posting as soon as we are told anything about a new meeting.

Saltnpepper
27-01-2012, 01:20
Thanks Doreen, much appreciated. So many comments relate to apartments and villas - does anyone have any info about how this law affects rural houses? Would these fall into the same category as villas (even if someone didn't originally buy the property to rent out, but just to live in)?

nelson
27-01-2012, 11:30
So atlantida (legal accommodation) were doing very well thanks and then el mirador (illegal accommodation) came along and they struggled and ended up not doing as well and the main owner had to sell up thus screwing atlantida....

Can't imagine why this law's being enforced or why the hotel associations are backing it!

I think Nelson answers his own questions if given enough time to think

Added after 6 minutes:

Wow if Nelson had his way the private owners in residential complexes Would force all the other hotels and apartments out of business and it would be happy days for everyone - no one wants to stay in legal accommodation anyway!

but there is no link. you are being as silly as the hotels always thinking that all the apartment customers are their missing customers.

atlantida had all sorts, once a thompson supe familly,that flopped, they did a lot with dutch and scandanavia. they did try but they failed like any business can in the overhead/profits squeeze. their battle was with package holidays in turkey/n africa/ probabley the balkans, the euro would not have helped.

the new punters up in el mirador are certainly not all atlantidas lost customers, they would be the new internet add brits who chose that holiday style. since the atlantidas customers are no more it is a godsend that the el mirador ones are here.

believe me they are not the same people, and if the new private atlantida got going with the internet ads, those guests would not be the old lost package holiday punters either, but the canary economy would be thankful for them all.

The other thing is no one would be able to run the atalantida as a tradational hotel and get the place full , thats market forces and things change.

BobMac
27-01-2012, 16:09
its just a silly thing the hotels came up with in 1995 to try to have apartments in line with them, so as to have similar overheads. This in effect meant that in the canaries tourist accomodation , was artifically made into hotels and nearly hotels. Because the world has self catering accomodation this makes the canary situation very odd, as the law in the islands seeks to hold back the existance of a basic holiday choice option, the self catering apartment.

For pity's sake Nelson, how do we get it through to you that it doesn't matter a sod how holiday letting is run and managed anywhere else in the world; in Tenerife there is a Canarian Government Law which only allows you to let out your property under very specific conditions.

It doesn't matter that everyone can see that this law is a total ass and wrong, it is still Canarian LAW and unless the Canarian Government can be persuaded to change it and I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for that to happen, the people who have been fined are going to have to accept some level of fine - all you can do is keep appealing and trying to get the fines reduced.

Suzanne
27-01-2012, 17:40
I agree the government need to look at and sort this. maybe they should implement an EXIT fee ofeg. 5 euros to everyone LEAVING the island. This should be payable at local tourist offices or the airport itself even at checking in so it is going directly to the government, it would create jobs and bring in revenue. They would however have to publicise it so that everyone was aware they had to pay this before they can leave the island. There is something similar in Thailand and other places.

nelson
27-01-2012, 23:17
For pity's sake Nelson, how do we get it through to you that it doesn't matter a sod how holiday letting is run and managed anywhere else in the world; in Tenerife there is a Canarian Government Law which only allows you to let out your property under very specific conditions.

It doesn't matter that everyone can see that this law is a total ass and wrong, it is still Canarian LAW and unless the Canarian Government can be persuaded to change it and I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for that to happen, the people who have been fined are going to have to accept some level of fine - all you can do is keep appealing and trying to get the fines reduced.

no bobmac that is not all we can do. this is the lobby thread to try to remove the crazy law and replace it with a fair system to perhaps charge a fee to private renters in the canaries, but at the end of the day make the situation fully legal.

at the end of the day you and others on here may be right, we may fail in this campaign. it may be that the historical fascist character of the spanish government may prevail on this issue and that despite all our campaigning and legal challenges the present law stands and we are all left defeated. all amazed at this incredibly unfair crackdown , imposed on us by a country that thinks itself a full member of modern europeon democracy. How out of step with the canary president senor rivolia , who looks and sounds such a reasonable democrat in his messages to his multi cultural citizens.

but at the end of the day we brits have no fascist history, our history in those days stands as an example to the rest of the world, our finest hours, and we must take up this fight, though we never wanted it, and we must at least try to get justice and sense from this.

if at the end of the day we fail, in my opinion we must at this time at least try.

we owe our freedom today to all those who fought on 70 years ago, when the doubters urged surrender.

Loaded
27-01-2012, 23:32
We Brits have never been fascists ??? We only went on countless crusades invading and occupying several countries while building an empire, please Nelson every country has had their silly period

doreen
28-01-2012, 00:02
no bobmac that is not all we can do. this is the lobby thread to try to remove the crazy law and replace it with a fair system to perhaps charge a fee to private renters in the canaries, but at the end of the day make the situation fully legal.

at the end of the day you and others on here may be right, we may fail in this campaign. it may be that the historical fascist character of the spanish government may prevail on this issue and that despite all our campaigning and legal challenges the present law stands and we are all left defeated. all amazed at this incredibly unfair crackdown , imposed on us by a country that thinks itself a full member of modern europeon democracy. How out of step with the canary president senor rivolia , who looks and sounds such a reasonable democrat in his messages to his multi cultural citizens.

but at the end of the day we brits have no fascist history, our history in those days stands as an example to the rest of the world, our finest hours, and we must take up this fight, though we never wanted it, and we must at least try to get justice and sense from this.

if at the end of the day we fail, in my opinion we must at this time at least try.

we owe our freedom today to all those who fought on 70 years ago, when the doubters urged surrender.

Westiminster (and the other 5 London boroughs that prohibit holiday rentals under their planning laws) must be harking back to Mosley, I suppose (she said, tongue in cheek :lol:)

As for "your campaign" nelson ... what else are you doing apart from posting on here ??? Not many offers I notice to take up some necessary research I mentioned in my opening post ....

bonitatime
28-01-2012, 09:34
I agree the government need to look at and sort this. maybe they should implement an EXIT fee ofeg. 5 euros to everyone LEAVING the island. This should be payable at local tourist offices or the airport itself even at checking in so it is going directly to the government, it would create jobs and bring in revenue. They would however have to publicise it so that everyone was aware they had to pay this before they can leave the island. There is something similar in Thailand and other places.

Why should I as a resident pay an éxit fee to cover someone else breaking the law.

Loaded
28-01-2012, 10:01
Westiminster (and the other 5 London boroughs that prohibit holiday rentals under their planning laws) must be harking back to Mosley, I suppose (she said, tongue in cheek :lol:)

As for "your campaign" nelson ... what else are you doing apart from posting on here ??? Not many offers I notice to take up some necessary research I mentioned in my opening post ....

His research is: Tenerife cabildo should charge 400 per year, like Portugal model, blah blah, nazis, Franco, blah, brits are ace, blah , unfair laws, blah , colonel gadaffi, blah blah

Tom & Sharon
28-01-2012, 10:22
no bobmac that is not all we can do. this is the lobby thread to try to remove the crazy law and replace it with a fair system to perhaps charge a fee to private renters in the canaries, but at the end of the day make the situation fully legal.

at the end of the day you and others on here may be right, we may fail in this campaign. it may be that the historical fascist character of the spanish government may prevail on this issue and that despite all our campaigning and legal challenges the present law stands and we are all left defeated. all amazed at this incredibly unfair crackdown , imposed on us by a country that thinks itself a full member of modern europeon democracy. How out of step with the canary president senor rivolia , who looks and sounds such a reasonable democrat in his messages to his multi cultural citizens.

but at the end of the day we brits have no fascist history, our history in those days stands as an example to the rest of the world, our finest hours, and we must take up this fight, though we never wanted it, and we must at least try to get justice and sense from this.

if at the end of the day we fail, in my opinion we must at this time at least try.

we owe our freedom today to all those who fought on 70 years ago, when the doubters urged surrender.

:wow::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz: :zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz: :zzz:

9PLUS
28-01-2012, 10:26
His research is: Tenerife cabildo should charge 400 per year, like Portugal model, blah blah, nazis, Franco, blah, brits are ace, blah , unfair laws, blah , colonel gadaffi, blah blah


The full story...

His research is: Tenerife cabildo should charge 400 per year, like Portugal model, blah blah, nazis, Franco, blah, brits are ace, blah , unfair laws, blah , colonel gadaffi, blah blah we owe our freedom today to all those who fought on 70 years ago, when the doubters urged surrender

Muppet
28-01-2012, 10:29
no bobmac that is not all we can do. this is the lobby thread to try to remove the crazy law and replace it with a fair system to perhaps charge a fee to private renters in the canaries, but at the end of the day make the situation fully legal.

at the end of the day you and others on here may be right, we may fail in this campaign. it may be that the historical fascist character of the spanish government may prevail on this issue and that despite all our campaigning and legal challenges the present law stands and we are all left defeated. all amazed at this incredibly unfair crackdown , imposed on us by a country that thinks itself a full member of modern europeon democracy. How out of step with the canary president senor rivolia , who looks and sounds such a reasonable democrat in his messages to his multi cultural citizens.

but at the end of the day we brits have no fascist history, our history in those days stands as an example to the rest of the world, our finest hours, and we must take up this fight, though we never wanted it, and we must at least try to get justice and sense from this.

if at the end of the day we fail, in my opinion we must at this time at least try.

we owe our freedom today to all those who fought on 70 years ago, when the doubters urged surrender.

I think if you plan to take the Canary Islands to court eventually, you should at least get our illustrious President's name correct??

nelson
28-01-2012, 11:13
I think if you plan to take the Canary Islands to court eventually, you should at least get our illustrious President's name correct??

yes, sorry for getting his name wrong. you know who I mean, looks a very kind intelligent person, not sure what political party he represents but he always writes nice things in the brit newspapers about muti cultural canaries, his xmas message seems warm and pleasant. Just seems to me that his image does not fit with this severe crackdown.

the entire way the canary government has gone about their crackdown is not really how you expect a modern europeon democracy to go about things.

Loaded
28-01-2012, 11:28
Here here ! Onward to Normandy !

9PLUS
28-01-2012, 11:32
Good of them to give you 16 years grace

nelson
28-01-2012, 12:36
Good of them to give you 16 years grace

ha ha, well thats all part of the crazy situation as we all know so well. clearly as has been said many times before , the canary government turned a blind eye to the private letting when it suited them, that is when all the hotels werew full and it was obvious that the apartments were accomodating extra and much needed guests, to boost the canary economy.

the crackdown only started due to the hotels kicking off in 2008 due to the crisis and downturn in numbers, it is their perception that all alpartment customers are indeed their own " poached " customers.

9PLUS
28-01-2012, 13:00
I now read all your posts on this forum to music


nelsons theme song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6ZDsUGiGqM)

Tenerife Villas
28-01-2012, 13:30
I now read all your posts on this forum to music


nelsons theme song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6ZDsUGiGqM)

I think that nelson deserves more respect he has been a consistant voice for a lot of concerned people who read these posts and does not deserve a lot of the Ridicule he has had to endure from other posters.
Both sides have put valid views for and against the situation on renting laws but as this is one of biggest threads i have ever seen it seems this Issue is effecting the lives of many people.

Loaded
28-01-2012, 13:49
He'd get less ridicule if he didn't make Churchill-like speeches while saying the same thing over and over

9PLUS
28-01-2012, 13:52
I think that nelson deserves more respect he has been a consistant voice for a lot of concerned people who read these posts and does not deserve a lot of the Ridicule he has had to endure from other posters.
Both sides have put valid views for and against the situation on renting laws but as this is one of biggest threads i have ever seen it seems this Issue is effecting the lives of many people.



Seems to of thanked the post howeverrrr

nelson
28-01-2012, 13:53
I think that nelson deserves more respect he has been a consistant voice for a lot of concerned people who read these posts and does not deserve a lot of the Ridicule he has had to endure from other posters.
Both sides have put valid views for and against the situation on renting laws but as this is one of biggest threads i have ever seen it seems this Issue is effecting the lives of many people.

I have always been consistant in my viewpoint as the issue is basically very clear cut. the crackdown is crazy for the canary economy and the small renters are doing something that is perfectly ordinary and commonplace all around the world and it is insane that the canary government should attack all these small renters with these enormousw fines.

As you say many people will be in this terrible predicament , they may be less vocal, but they need to join a united campaign to get this thing sorted.

the main posters on here who have a gop at me I have some sympathy for. They are of course sole agents who have cpmplied with this daft law and so have a vested interest in it remaining. The problem they have and this would be their greatest fear, would be that this crackdown results in such an outcry that the letting laws are reformed along the lines we are all asking for, and that would be to legalise small renting and at a stroke forget about sole agency nonsense.

I understand that this scenerio will scare the sole agents, I think a lot of their attitude to what I post comes from this fear. To use an analogy, the whole thing wouyld be like the japenese attack on pearl harbour, a daring huge raid and a japenese victory, but even on the day the japs had ensured their defeat ultimatley, the USA was always going to beat them in the end.

What the sole agents are fearing is if the canary government has done a pearl harbour attack on us all here, but in carrying out such a ridiculous and severe crackdown, the response is going to be a reform of the letting laws and an end to 50 plus 1 and sole agency.

Added after 4 minutes:


He'd get less ridicule if he didn't make Churchill-like speeches while saying the same thing over and over

you say the same thing over and over as well, you have to remember new people are coming on reading posts and they may be concerned and frifgtened by what is happening, it may help them to join the campaign if they read arguments that they agree with and know other people are fighting this. you have been on this thread much longer than me trying to give your side of the debate, and you continue to do this.

you can compare me to Churchill all day long, a hero of mine, if you had not guessed


Seems to of thanked the post howeverrrr

made me laugh, the world needs as much laughter as possible.

Tenerife Villas
28-01-2012, 14:24
it seems that the idea that a sole exploitation companies are acting in a protectionist fashion is fiction it has to be one of the worst businesses in the world pampering to owners and listning to guest complaints paying for marketing, office on site and all that entails so to me the only way that works is if you have a decent amount of useable properties and most touristic complexs in the sticks don't. So there is a need for exploitation on large complexs as it would be right that consumers had one point of call, the internet has changed the choice now and there is demand for large private villas and apartments but when i booked to go fishing in cornwall on owners direct last year we ended up being met by a profesional property manager (not the owner) so it cannot end up as a free for all. Tenerife will have to make the law work as it stands or setup new laws and registration systems but I think they will do the latter.

Tom & Sharon
28-01-2012, 14:46
I understand that this scenerio will scare the sole agents, I think a lot of their attitude to what I post comes from this fear. To use an analogy, the whole thing wouyld be like the japenese attack on pearl harbour, a daring huge raid and a japenese victory, but even on the day the japs had ensured their defeat ultimatley, the USA was always going to beat them in the end.

They're under starters orders and they're OFFFFffffffffff
He's at it again,what an analogy :wow:;)

'Keep goin wi yed down' as my old ma used to say!!

You certainly make my day Nelson,i like a man with your eternal optomism :c2::lol:

nelson
28-01-2012, 14:51
it seems that the idea that a sole exploitation companies are acting in a protectionist fashion is fiction it has to be one of the worst businesses in the world pampering to owners and listning to guest complaints paying for marketing, office on site and all that entails so to me the only way that works is if you have a decent amount of useable properties and most touristic complexs in the sticks don't. So there is a need for exploitation on large complexs as it would be right that consumers had one point of call, the internet has changed the choice now and there is demand for large private villas and apartments but when i booked to go fishing in cornwall on owners direct last year we ended up being met by a profesional property manager (not the owner) so it cannot end up as a free for all. Tenerife will have to make the law work as it stands or setup new laws and registration systems but I think they will do the latter.

well you may have a point that really large complex's need a single agent, they are in any event like large hotels. There are many small ones , ours is a good example of this, where a sole agency is simply not relevant. Its going to take quite a bit of sorting out , hopefully a sensible reform can take place. Senor Escobedos position as outlined on his website appears to be what we have been asking for , and he seems fully aware of the enormity of the problem being caused to the canary economy.

Added after 10 minutes:


I understand that this scenerio will scare the sole agents, I think a lot of their attitude to what I post comes from this fear. To use an analogy, the whole thing wouyld be like the japenese attack on pearl harbour, a daring huge raid and a japenese victory, but even on the day the japs had ensured their defeat ultimatley, the USA was always going to beat them in the end.

They're under starters orders and they're OFFFFfffffffff
He's at it again,what an anology :wow:;)

'Keep goin wi yed down' as my old ma used to say!!

You certainly make my day Nelson,i like a man with you're eternal optomism :c2::lol:

glad to give you a lift,we all need that at times, I have always been a positive person, it often helps, solve problems and find a way forward

Simon-M
28-01-2012, 15:19
glad to give you a lift,we all need that at times, I have always been a positive person, it often helps, solve problems and find a way forward

Don't confuse blind determination with blind.

Peterrayner
28-01-2012, 16:13
you forgot to mention that you think 400 euros a year is plenty for you to be paying .............. oh yes, and that Portugal have got it right by allowing letting through licensing - clearly hasn't worked for them though since the country is bankrupt ??

more propoganda :) When was this announced I must have missed it. ???

Loaded
28-01-2012, 17:56
Nelson Lets say you got your way and all the private owners were allowed to do what they want
So long as they pay An 400€ Annual registration fee and have a registered local agent in charge of the apartment....

As you say this would affect sole agents all over the place and lets asume they do struggle as you suggest - bit by bit places like paloma beach, cristian sur and Tenerife sur would stop functioning as they do, places like oasis mango, reveron apartments etc would sell off their apartments on the open Market for more owners to do their own private rentals.

Where would this leave us? in the strange situation of having hotels or private rentals only - the apartment style accommodation that currently exists would certainly be damaged

nelson
28-01-2012, 19:33
Nelson Lets say you got your way and all the private owners were allowed to do what they want
So long as they pay An 400€ Annual registration fee and have a registered local agent in charge of the apartment....

As you say this would affect sole agents all over the place and lets asume they do struggle as you suggest - bit by bit places like paloma beach, cristian sur and Tenerife sur would stop functioning as they do, places like oasis mango, reveron apartments etc would sell off their apartments on the open Market for more owners to do their own private rentals.

Where would this leave us? in the strange situation of having hotels or private rentals only - the apartment style accommodation that currently exists would certainly be damaged

you have my sympathy on this one. clearly this scenario has already been evolving, on paloma beach you have private renters who do not use your sole agency. This creates a situation where they are renting within a legal touristic site but in a sense being shielded by the existance of a sole letting agent that they do not chose to work with. There are other complex,s with touristic licences and sole agents that have independant renters as well, and have done for many years , torres del sol being an example of this.

Basically the situation would be freedom to rent on your own with one apartment or let through an agent, but that could be any agent of your choice. The whole sole agent position in my opinion, was only ever an invention in the 1995 letting law to create a position that the hotels were happy with, that is competition from apartments that had to carry similar overheads to them, 24 reception, maid service etc. It gave the hotels comfort that they had competition from nearly hotels. In a future canaries that permits private renting it would seem to me that sole agency requirements are something to move away from.

Loaded
28-01-2012, 22:43
you have my sympathy on this one. clearly this scenario has already been evolving, on paloma beach you have private renters who do not use your sole agency. This creates a situation where they are renting within a legal touristic site but in a sense being shielded by the existance of a sole letting agent that they do not chose to work with. There are other complex,s with touristic licences and sole agents that have independant renters as well, and have done for many years , torres del sol being an example of this.

Basically the situation would be freedom to rent on your own with one apartment or let through an agent, but that could be any agent of your choice. The whole sole agent position in my opinion, was only ever an invention in the 1995 letting law to create a position that the hotels were happy with, that is competition from apartments that had to carry similar overheads to them, 24 reception, maid service etc. It gave the hotels comfort that they had competition from nearly hotels. In a future canaries that permits private renting it would seem to me that sole agency requirements are something to move away from.

But they aren't shielded at all, they're as illegal as your apartments.

So as I have your sympathy..... When this change in the law happens will you support me and the reveron family with a legal challenge to reverse the decision ?

nelson
29-01-2012, 21:04
But they aren't shielded at all, they're as illegal as your apartments.

So as I have your sympathy..... When this change in the law happens will you support me and the reveron family with a legal challenge to reverse the decision ?

if the law is changed to allow small private renting it is not going to be the end for the reveron family or yourself. Both you and the reveron family have been getting plenty of guests for many ,many years. The law was not enforced for 16 years and in all those years both you and the reveron family enjoyed many guests as did also the many thousands of private apartments that are currently being attacked.

To talk in terms of one type of tourist accomodation being the demise of the other is just plain barmy, its the same argument the hotels use to justify the crackdown, as if all apartment customers should be in their hotels.

The big change will be the end of sole agency exploitation. If that comes in then the apartment owners will have freedom to either run the apartment entirely themselves or use an agent. This would affect you in so far as your sole agency work. As for the reveron family , i think that their apartments are entirely theirs and they run them as an aparthotel. If in the future they find that they are less competitive than private renters then they may decide to change their style to be more like the private renters, maybe just weekly linen change and less hotel style frills.

personally I think that there is enough trade for everyone, as has been the case for 16 years, and that this silly crackdown is not justified in terms of there being only a limited number of customers and stopping one type of accomodation is vital to the benefit of the other.

I think it does show that when the 1995 law demanded hotel style costs, like 24 reception etc, that was just daft when small apartment renters could offer a property to let for less cost without such frills. It is important to offer to the marketplace the best deal and to offer choice of holiday accomodation is also sensible.

welshman
31-01-2012, 00:31
Here is one for you Nelson found on Trip advisor for 10th Jan Paloma beach with regards to 24 hr reception

“Good Accomodation and Location”
5 of 5 stars Reviewed 10 January 2012

First problem we had was the transfers, no one seemed to have our details so we ended up getting a taxi which cost 25 euro, it worked out quite well as it only took 15 minutes to get to the apartments. Then came the next problem, the front reception was closed. The tax driver drove round the apartments but couldnt see anywhere, eventually someone was walking out and we asked them and they pointed us up to the pool area and there was an envelope stuck to the door with our keys in it,

It happen even in the best run complexes!!!!:tiphat::tiphat::spin:

nelson
31-01-2012, 15:45
Here is one for you Nelson found on Trip advisor for 10th Jan Paloma beach with regards to 24 hr reception

“Good Accomodation and Location”
5 of 5 stars Reviewed 10 January 2012

First problem we had was the transfers, no one seemed to have our details so we ended up getting a taxi which cost 25 euro, it worked out quite well as it only took 15 minutes to get to the apartments. Then came the next problem, the front reception was closed. The tax driver drove round the apartments but couldnt see anywhere, eventually someone was walking out and we asked them and they pointed us up to the pool area and there was an envelope stuck to the door with our keys in it,

It happen even in the best run complexes!!!!:tiphat::tiphat::spin:

ha ha, we have all seen places where keys are on the reception laid out for late arrivals. I suppose its just a case of bending the rules a bit , 24 hour ish manned reception. Just hope it does not become a habit and turismo do spot checks and slap a 30,000 euro fine on them.

Peterrayner
31-01-2012, 16:18
Paraiso Royal PDLA 3* registered complex fined 40,000E this month according to Boletin

Reception closed after 2pm on Friday till 10am Monday. Guests arriving during this period struggled to find keys posted on wall in bar and no bed linen or towels provided in apartments till Monday. :eek: