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View Full Version : Our edificio employs illegal staff. What can we do about it?



mlun
29-12-2011, 21:19
I know here in Spain it is not uncommon to pay staff with black money. But I must say I was somewhat surprised when I recently found out that everything our edificio pays to gardener, cleaning lady and the administrator herself is without any proof of recipient whatsoever. If you did this as a private person, I could somehow - not accept - but understand it, as you are dealing with your own private money and responsibility. But when doing it for an edificio, you put yourself in a position where anyone could raise a suspicion such as: You claim to have paid the gardener 200€, but I believe it is only 100€. And rightfully so.

As one of the owners, and having no confidence in the administrator/president whatsoever, this is exactly what I would like to do. So basically I feel that I'm entitled to ask her to refund every cent that she cannot justify by legally correct documented expenses. A gardener should for example appear with a name, a DNI number, or at least have made a receipt where he/she signed for the receipt of the payment. But no - nothing is written other than "Gardener - 200€". The President writes a cheque, goes in the bank, cashes the cheque, and - so she claims - pays the gardener. And the cleaning lady, herself, etc.

What would you do here? I am condering to bring this person to court claiming that she must refund everything to the edificio. But also, to report her illegalities to the authorities. But who - where? My fear is also of course that then the authorities would fine us - the edicifio - for all unpaid taxes, social security, unpaid pensions etc etc. And we did not know about this until now - the president/administrator and auditor have kept this hidden for us.

I really hope this does not reflect the normal situation here in Spain. If so, I simply do not understand why people trust administrators who pay themselves money completely without documentation.

I like to understand and accept foreign cultures, but there must be a limit!

willowlily
29-12-2011, 22:25
give us a clue is your edificio in the north or south, and the first letter of the complex, we could have a competition who could guess

Ecky Thump
29-12-2011, 22:30
give us a clue is your edificio in the north or south, and the first letter of the complex, we could have a competition who could guess


And then open a libel case against the forum, if its not found to be true.:(


****
Take legal advice and then take any action that is deemed necessary.

Muppet
30-12-2011, 11:17
As an owner you are entitled to see a copy of the Comunidad accounts which should be circulated at every AGM. They should show exactly what goes in and out of the account

Take it from there

mlun
30-12-2011, 11:59
I appreciate what has been advised, and also can agree to that the best would be to consult a lawyer. However, this has an expense, and knowing the system down here, it's a looong route before potential victory. I have seen the accounts, and have no doubts that approximately half our expenses are without any proper legal documentation (illegal staff, no insurance, no contracts, no reporting to fiscal authorities of earnings).

The best would be to report the situation directly to the proper authorities (but who), and let them take action. Then we could second this with a private lawsuit claiming compensation for the money she has stolen from us. An official investigation would also close the possibilities for possible manipulations to cover over the illegalities.

The important thing for me is that the correct individuals are being punished, ie. the President and the Vice-President (who is also auditor). But could fear that any fines would have to be paid by the community. However, I would say that the President should be personally responsible for committing such crimes.

Vortex Wake
30-12-2011, 12:11
' The important thing for me is that the correct individuals are being punished, ie. the President and the Vice-President (who is also auditor). But could fear that any fines would have to be paid by the community. However, I would say that the President should be personally responsible for committing such crimes.'

This statement sums up where you want all this to end up.


Cut off your nose to spite your face, or involve all the community to force those in power to in future account for all monies paid out in the correct manner.

Maybe some people just crave the power of being president? ;)

Loaded
05-02-2012, 16:22
can't you get the admin and president voted out by drumming up support for your campaign? That's what we had to do on PB many moons ago and we haven't looked back

Topacciolo
27-03-2012, 00:18
As an owner you are entitled to see a copy of the Comunidad accounts which should be circulated at every AGM. They should show exactly what goes in and out of the account

Take it from there

It's true!! They should provide you with a quarterly summary explaining where everything goes. Also you could ask the question at your next meeting. On mine everyone ask anything they feel like asking at the end of the session so why not. I always feel that before bringing anyone to court you should politely confront them.


Topacciolo