LosRoques
02-03-2012, 14:30
So we've been discussing recent events with friends and associates here and a situation came to light that highlights the mentality of the populace towards the paro (unemployment benefit).
An employee in a place we know wanted to leave but didn't want to work full notice.
So the employee tells the employer they'll work for as long as is necessary as long as the employer signs the employee off as though they've been asked to leave (but not as though they've been sacked for misconduct) so that they can get paro. In other words, the employee is asking the employer to commit fraud for the benefit of the employee. The employer says no and then points out that under Spanish law the employer can discount from the employee's pay as a penalty any days of the notice period that the employee was absent without permission or baja (sick note). So if an employee walks out you don't have to pay them for the last 15 days worked, or more if the contract has a longer notice period. Despite this, the employee insists on mutually agreed contract end to be able to get the paro or nothing, threatening to take court action if the employer discounts the salary.
What's interesting is how "normal" this kind of thing seems to be.
Ask anyone who owns a company or has owned a company whether they'd take part in the fraud and they'll either say "no, absolutely not, it's fraud and is why we pay so much social security" or they might say "well, if it's someone you know and like then maybe it's ok but otherwise no".
However, ask pretty much any employee what they think and they'll say "sure, why not, that's why we pay social security". What they don't realise is that the employee pays about 6c on the € for social security and the employer pays around 30c on the €, so it's really the employers that are paying for this. Point this out and most will shrug and say "so?".
It seems in general "off the record" conversation that the majority of employees here in Spain are ok with the idea of committing some kind fraud to get benefits, and that in general unemployment benefit is an entitlement regardless of whether or not your circumstances are of your own making.
Many even take advantage of the 9 month contract churn to work for 9 months and then take up to 6 months on the paro, which previously paid out up to 70% of the last 6 months' salary (though that's changed with the austerity measures). On two occasions we've had people turn down a job offer because they'd rather use up their paro and work somewhere for less hours cash in hand than take a full-time contract and lose the paro payments.....
They don't seem to realised that a massive social security bill is one of the main reasons the deficit is so high and that by taking advantage of the system they're pushing Spain even more into the red.
Makes you wonder, of the 25-30% unemployed, how many are actually working as well, and how many chose to be unemployed for a few months before taking another contract? If I were truly unemployed and couldn't find work I'd be really angry at those that were cheating the system, but talking to locals that doesn't seem to be the case.
Even amongst those that think it's wrong you get a shrug and a "well, it's wrong but it's normal, it's what people do".
And they wonder why Spain's Social Security bill is so high....
An employee in a place we know wanted to leave but didn't want to work full notice.
So the employee tells the employer they'll work for as long as is necessary as long as the employer signs the employee off as though they've been asked to leave (but not as though they've been sacked for misconduct) so that they can get paro. In other words, the employee is asking the employer to commit fraud for the benefit of the employee. The employer says no and then points out that under Spanish law the employer can discount from the employee's pay as a penalty any days of the notice period that the employee was absent without permission or baja (sick note). So if an employee walks out you don't have to pay them for the last 15 days worked, or more if the contract has a longer notice period. Despite this, the employee insists on mutually agreed contract end to be able to get the paro or nothing, threatening to take court action if the employer discounts the salary.
What's interesting is how "normal" this kind of thing seems to be.
Ask anyone who owns a company or has owned a company whether they'd take part in the fraud and they'll either say "no, absolutely not, it's fraud and is why we pay so much social security" or they might say "well, if it's someone you know and like then maybe it's ok but otherwise no".
However, ask pretty much any employee what they think and they'll say "sure, why not, that's why we pay social security". What they don't realise is that the employee pays about 6c on the € for social security and the employer pays around 30c on the €, so it's really the employers that are paying for this. Point this out and most will shrug and say "so?".
It seems in general "off the record" conversation that the majority of employees here in Spain are ok with the idea of committing some kind fraud to get benefits, and that in general unemployment benefit is an entitlement regardless of whether or not your circumstances are of your own making.
Many even take advantage of the 9 month contract churn to work for 9 months and then take up to 6 months on the paro, which previously paid out up to 70% of the last 6 months' salary (though that's changed with the austerity measures). On two occasions we've had people turn down a job offer because they'd rather use up their paro and work somewhere for less hours cash in hand than take a full-time contract and lose the paro payments.....
They don't seem to realised that a massive social security bill is one of the main reasons the deficit is so high and that by taking advantage of the system they're pushing Spain even more into the red.
Makes you wonder, of the 25-30% unemployed, how many are actually working as well, and how many chose to be unemployed for a few months before taking another contract? If I were truly unemployed and couldn't find work I'd be really angry at those that were cheating the system, but talking to locals that doesn't seem to be the case.
Even amongst those that think it's wrong you get a shrug and a "well, it's wrong but it's normal, it's what people do".
And they wonder why Spain's Social Security bill is so high....