PDA

View Full Version : Why do estate agents agree to advertise properties at unrealistic prices in Tenerife?



palm
08-04-2012, 17:38
So far as experience in my sector, experienced estate agents are going out of business left, right and centre. Probably one of the hardest businesses to get a start in right now - you need to really know what you are doing. I am sure of those who may think its as easy as sticking a poster in the window, very few would last 5 minutes in this industry these days. If you have no experience and think you can just selling property - Good Luck!

Something that confuses me about people in your industry... you only make money when you make a sale right? Why don't you get your sellers heads out of the clouds and have them list their properties at a price people can actually afford to pay?

Ive looked at a few prices and they are nuts... the banks aren't throwing wodges of cash at all and sundry any more, its no wonder you guys are going out of business trying to sell property at those prices. No doubt you'll tell me im wrong but if I was in that line of work I wouldn't take on a property to sell at a lunatic price, its just a waste of advertising space. I'd have a sign in the window, 'Sensible vendors only!'. You need good 30%+ falls to get the market moving again, or more and more of you guys will be closing.

cainaries
08-04-2012, 17:48
Something that confuses me about people in your industry... you only make money when you make a sale right? Why don't you get your sellers heads out of the clouds and have them list their properties at a price people can actually afford to pay?

Ive looked at a few prices and they are nuts... the banks aren't throwing wodges of cash at all and sundry any more, its no wonder you guys are going out of business trying to sell property at those prices. No doubt you'll tell me im wrong but if I was in that line of work I wouldn't take on a property to sell at a lunatic price, its just a waste of advertising space. I'd have a sign in the window, 'Sensible vendors only!'. You need good 30%+ falls to get the market moving again, or more and more of you guys will be closing.

Poor old vendor, that's all I can say. Not allowed a say in pricing his own property. Forced to take a loss. May be he'd rather just hang on in there and see what happens.

palm
08-04-2012, 17:54
Poor old vendor, that's all I can say. Not allowed a say in pricing his own property. Forced to take a loss. May be he'd rather just hang on in there and see what happens.

Hanging in there is at the estate agents expense.. they print up the ads and run them, pay rent on the shop with the space used in the window.. if the asking price is pie in the sky it's all a bit of a waste advertising it.

Sure a vendor can ask what they want, just not at my expense in my fictional estate agent!

And forced to take a loss means they overpaid in the first place, how about the poor buyer, forced to pay enormous sums! Investments can go down as well as up, even property. (gasp!) :)

kathml
08-04-2012, 18:12
If as a seller I want X for my property thats my perogative if the estate agent thinks its too expensive and refuses to list it thats his

prices are only what someone is willing to pay for something theres no right price

get two keen buyers for the same property and the skys the limit its the same as in an auction get two keen buyers the price goes up get no buyer and the price doesn't matter

TenerifePool
08-04-2012, 18:18
Many "losses" aren't real anyway. If someone paid 12 Million pesetas 10 years ago, that's 72 000€ for a property that was worth 200 000€ 4 years ago to sell it at 90 000€ today isn't a loss of 110 000€. It's a profit of 18 000€.

The only loosers are those (like me) who bought at artificially inflated prices during the last 5 years. Prices which were never real or sustainable.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I could buy 3 houses like mine today for the price that I paid for my house 5 years ago.

cainaries
08-04-2012, 18:30
Hanging in there is at the estate agents expense.. they print up the ads and run them, pay rent on the shop with the space used in the window.. if the asking price is pie in the sky it's all a bit of a waste advertising it.

Sure a vendor can ask what they want, just not at my expense in my fictional estate agent!

And forced to take a loss means they overpaid in the first place, how about the poor buyer, forced to pay enormous sums! Investments can go down as well as up, even property. (gasp!) :)

Don't think too many vendors or buyers are that concerned with the woes of the estate agent, tbh.

palm
08-04-2012, 18:32
If as a seller I want X for my property thats my perogative if the estate agent thinks its too expensive and refuses to list it thats his

prices are only what someone is willing to pay for something theres no right price

get two keen buyers for the same property and the skys the limit its the same as in an auction get two keen buyers the price goes up get no buyer and the price doesn't matter

Absolutely agree. Something is only worth what someone is prepared to pay. And as we can see from all these estate agent closures, the asking prices today are not as low as what someone is prepared to pay. Which is why I wonder why the estate agents don't work on bringing them down to affordable (ie saleable) levels.

cainaries
08-04-2012, 18:33
Many "losses" aren't real anyway. If someone paid 12 Million pesetas 10 years ago, that's 72 000€ for a property that was worth 200 000€ 4 years ago to sell it at 90 000€ today isn't a loss of 110 000€. It's a profit of 18 000€.

The only loosers are those (like me) who bought at artificially inflated prices during the last 5 years. Prices which were never real or sustainable.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I could buy 3 houses like mine today for the price that I paid for my house 5 years ago.

Depends how you look at it. It would be unlikely the owner hadn't spent any money at all on their home after they'd bought it so the next buyer won't have to modernise the kitchen/bathroom or repair the roof (just for example). So the 18K can quickly disappear.

As for dropping the prices 30% as mentioned earlier, where we are there are people saying they will take any reasonable offer but it makes no difference because there aren't any buyers at all, not just buyers who can't afford their asking price.

palm
08-04-2012, 18:33
Don't think too many vendors or buyers are that concerned with the woes of the estate agent, tbh.

The woes of the estate agent are the same as those of the seller, IE, their property aint shifting at that crazy price!

Added after 2 minutes:



As for dropping the prices 30% as mentioned earlier, where we are there are people saying they will take any reasonable offer but it makes no difference because there aren't any buyers at all, not just buyers who can't afford their asking price.

Disagree, sellers will find a buyer if they price it right. Problem is, most refuse to price it sensibly because of what they paid themselves. In that situation they just won't sell it.

There are buyers, there is demand, but buyers cant magic money out of thin air. Im an example, if I found a property at a sensible price Id buy. But there aren't any, so I wait until they come down to a reasonable level.

Added after 10 minutes:


Many "losses" aren't real anyway. If someone paid 12 Million pesetas 10 years ago, that's 72 000€ for a property that was worth 200 000€ 4 years ago to sell it at 90 000€ today isn't a loss of 110 000€. It's a profit of 18 000€.

The only loosers are those (like me) who bought at artificially inflated prices during the last 5 years. Prices which were never real or sustainable.

Agree, and bad luck, it has been a bit of a mess. Im glad you appreciate the worth of your property today however, theres plenty out there who did the same but simply refuse to admit they won't get what they paid for it now. This is why the market isn't moving.

CIM
08-04-2012, 18:50
I turn down a lot of property listings because prices are unreasonable. I just spoke to someone last night who is asking 260,000€ for their property and has it listed with every agent she could find - no viewings, no interest. I told her I wouldn't even take it on at that price and if she wanted real advice on how to sell she can come down for a chat about it - I do this all the time and most of the property that goes on my website does actually sell.

I see no point at all in stockpiling over 1000 properties on my website so I dont. It also creates a vicious circle whereby other seller look on these websites, see the asking prices and price theirs the same - so they end up with another property that wont sell

An estate agent right around the corner from us - same location, same clients walking past - sold virtually nothing. The difference was they were willing to list anything at whatever the owners told them to. They have recently gone out of business.

The flip side to this is it can sometimes help if you have an overpriced property on your books and then take on another on the same complex at a much better price. Put side by side the good value of the cheaper property is very apparent. But boasting about having more properties than other agent seems ridiculous - just tells people you have 1,000 odd properties that you are not capable of selling and aren't doing your job properly.

palm
08-04-2012, 18:56
I turn down a lot for property listings because prices are unreasonable. I just spoke to someone last night who is asking 260,000€ for their property and has it listed with every agent she could find - no viewings, no interest.

Thanks, thats interesting. I figured it was in your interest to list at sensible prices.. interesting to hear about the estate agent that didnt do it went out of business. I think this will thin the herd for you a bit, you'll have greater market share in the longer term.

I didnt think it was just my imagination, asking prices are cloud cuckoo as far as I can tell. Im taking a step back until nature takes its course and the correction gets some more momentum.

golf birdie
08-04-2012, 18:58
2 sides to every coin. A friend of mine had an estate agent tell him he would get around 100,000 for his apartment. I told him it was way under valued. Stuck his own sign up and sold before two weeks were up for 160,000;) The market is still there for the right place in the right location.

palm
08-04-2012, 19:02
2 sides to every coin. A friend of mine had an estate agent tell him he would get around 100,000 for his apartment. I told him it was way under valued. Stuck his own sign up and sold before two weeks were up for 160,000;) The market is still there for the right place in the right location.

You infer this is good news, wasnt good news for the buyer tho was it! Two sides indeed!

TenerifePool
08-04-2012, 19:03
I have 2 friends who bought identical apartments in the same edificio. Friend 1 bought in 2007 and paid 120K€. Friend 2 bought July 2011 and paid 35 950€.

golf birdie
08-04-2012, 19:04
You infer this is good news, wasnt good news for the buyer tho was it! Two sides indeed!

to be honest the estate agent IMO never had a clue and just wanted a quick sale.

CIM
08-04-2012, 19:07
2 sides to every coin. A friend of mine had an estate agent tell him he would get around 100,000 for his apartment. I told him it was way under valued. Stuck his own sign up and sold before two weeks were up for 160,000;) The market is still there for the right place in the right location.

Sounds like he got VERY lucky!

Of course the market is still there - we have done plenty of sales so far this year and just signed contracts on another last week but I have to work very hard at getting well priced property. Theres plenty of people wanting to sell but when told the reality they just aren't realistic with their prices.

If you have excellent marketing (which a good agent can provide) and a good price (which only the seller can provide) then there is a very good chance of a sale.
Excellent marketing does not consist of a naff sign with your phone number on it stuck to the balcony though :) . Why people think this is a good idea is beyond me. I took on a property recently, lots of photos, big write up - all details. Drove past it a day later and she had put a "Direct from owner" sign up - it was immediately de-listed from my site.

I can put properties on over 30 websites and send details to thousands of people all interested in buying here. A sign on the wall just doesn't compare so he really did get very luck with that one.

palm
08-04-2012, 19:08
I have 2 friends who bought identical apartments in the same edificio. Friend 1 bought in 2007 and paid 120K€. Friend 2 bought July 2011 and paid 35 950€.

Perhaps renting in the interim wouldn't have been 'dead money' after all? ;)

TenerifePool
08-04-2012, 19:11
Perhaps renting in the interim wouldn't have been 'dead money' after all? ;)

Friend 2 is now paying considerably less in mortgage than he ever paid in rent...

Git keeps telling me exactly the same thing... lol

palm
08-04-2012, 19:27
Ive taken the thread off topic again, arent I naughty. If possible moderator(s) a new thread could be made with this property market stuff in it?

golf birdie
08-04-2012, 19:34
Sounds like he got VERY lucky!

Of course the market is still there - we have done plenty of sales so far this year and just signed contracts on another last week but I have to work very hard at getting well priced property. Theres plenty of people wanting to sell but when told the reality they just aren't realistic with their prices.

If you have excellent marketing (which a good agent can provide) and a good price (which only the seller can provide) then there is a very good chance of a sale.
Excellent marketing does not consist of a naff sign with your phone number on it stuck to the balcony though :) . Why people think this is a good idea is beyond me. I took on a property recently, lots of photos, big write up - all details. Drove past it a day later and she had put a "Direct from owner" sign up - it was immediately de-listed from my site.

I can put properties on over 30 websites and send details to thousands of people all interested in buying here. A sign on the wall just doesn't compare so he really did get very luck with that one.

not so much luck as common sense. The bank valued the property for the morgage at 180,000 so where the estate agent got the 100k from is baffling.

CIM
08-04-2012, 19:35
Did he ask them? What did they say?
Which complex was the property on?

golf birdie
08-04-2012, 19:40
Did he ask them? What did they say?
Which complex was the property on?

they said the market was dead. Playa grassiosa.

CIM
08-04-2012, 19:47
Sounds like they were trying it on... One of the nicest complexes in LC. There is always some demand for there and Parque Tropical and they have always been relatively pricey. Prices have definitely come down on there but they are still nowhere near that sort of price!

cainaries
08-04-2012, 20:05
Palm, if you are looking for a property and have a budget, why haven't you made some offers. Costs nothing as far as I know. You might get lucky. Don't just judge b y the quoted price, see something you like and make an offer you think is reasonable, they can only say 'no'. There are people out there making very low offers in the hope of buying something they can sell on a little later and make a small profit. But if you are a genuine buyer, try, you never know, you might get lucky.

palm
08-04-2012, 20:18
Palm, if you are looking for a property and have a budget, why haven't you made some offers. Costs nothing as far as I know. You might get lucky. Don't just judge b y the quoted price, see something you like and make an offer you think is reasonable, they can only say 'no'.

Yeah true, it has crossed my mind, but to be honest the difference in what I would offer and what they are asking is such that it would be a waste of time. If they were prepared to accept the sort of money Id be interested in offering their asking price would reflect that to some extent. From my perspective the longer I wait the cheaper they will get, so there's no rush from my end. I don't have a problem with renting until then.

KirstyJay
08-04-2012, 20:33
Ive taken the thread off topic again, arent I naughty. If possible moderator(s) a new thread could be made with this property market stuff in it?Indeed! :twak: Thread split ;)

Sundowner
08-04-2012, 20:37
Yeah true, it has crossed my mind, but to be honest the difference in what I would offer and what they are asking is such that it would be a waste of time. If they were prepared to accept the sort of money Id be interested in offering their asking price would reflect that to some extent. From my perspective the longer I wait the cheaper they will get, so there's no rush from my end. I don't have a problem with renting until then.

If we could predict the market we would all be rich!!

cainaries
08-04-2012, 21:33
Yeah true, it has crossed my mind, but to be honest the difference in what I would offer and what they are asking is such that it would be a waste of time. If they were prepared to accept the sort of money Id be interested in offering their asking price would reflect that to some extent. From my perspective the longer I wait the cheaper they will get, so there's no rush from my end. I don't have a problem with renting until then.

(1) You don't actually know that .... and

(2) For me, rent money keeps a roof over my head, mortgage money invests for my future or the future of the next generation

But that's the way I was brought up, always try to own the property you're living in. But I do know times have changed.

christa
08-04-2012, 21:37
Yeah true, it has crossed my mind, but to be honest the difference in what I would offer and what they are asking is such that it would be a waste of time. If they were prepared to accept the sort of money Id be interested in offering their asking price would reflect that to some extent. From my perspective the longer I wait the cheaper they will get, so there's no rush from my end. I don't have a problem with renting until then.

Sorry Cainaires, not good at this multiple quote thingy, but......
Yes, I agree, if you see something in the right location for you, what have you got to lose by putting an offer forward? Peoples circumstances change, what they might have wanted pricewise 6 months ago, might be a different sum today! Also, If folks bought property before the exchange rate went t*ts up then they could still be in pocket if they chose to sell at a drop
in price at todays market value.
Sorry if the "quotes" have taken this out of context but I'm sure you get my drift.

TenerifePool
08-04-2012, 21:37
(1) You don't actually know that .... and

(2) For me, rent money keeps a roof over my head, mortgage money invests for my future or the future of the next generation

But that's the way I was brought up, always try to own the property you're living in. But I do know times have changed.

I would say that's true now but (hindsight again) wasn't true 5 years ago...

cainaries
08-04-2012, 21:42
I would say that's true now but (hindsight again) wasn't true 5 years ago...

Everyone's circumstances are different. We bought a house in the UK years ago and sold it six years later for exactly what we'd paid for it. And no-one could believe our lack of luck. And we'd spent about £20K on it as well. It was just, er, slightly in the wrong place. Which we hadn't realised at the time. So it isn't only the dates, the years, the recessions, la crisis ... sometimes you're just in the wrong place and if you're buying somewhere you don't know inside out, you don't realise it.

palm
08-04-2012, 22:08
Everyone's circumstances are different. We bought a house in the UK years ago and sold it six years later for exactly what we'd paid for it. And no-one could believe our lack of luck.

I know its typical in the uk but this belief that property *should* go up and up in price is completely irrational if you think about it. If you've bought, presumably the reason you sell is to get a different place, usually a larger one. If the price of all property has risen in the meantime it means you need to borrow MORE to 'move up the ladder' (hate that phrase!)... the 'rungs' are further apart. So you're not better off, you're worse off. But if you sell up in order to live in a tent you've gained. I don't think many people do that!

Also if you've got kids, presumably you want them to move out of the family home at some point. With stagnant wages and ever rising house prices as time goes on it becomes harder and harder for them to do so. That's not good either.

Also just *how* can prices go up and up forever, it just doesn't make sense. Wages are not keeping up, people have to borrow more and more to buy property. I know of a property in the uk that was bought for 100k. Today they are asking 250k for it, ten years after they bought it. That means that some poor couple starting out 10 years later due to simply having the misfortune of being born later need to find another 150k of borrowed money to afford the exact same property. And in those 10 years wages have not moved up hardly at all. And when you consider that a mortgage debt costs double what you borrow over the lifetime of the mortgage, this new couple have to find an extra £300,000 from their after tax income to buy the exact same property. Hardly fair is it? Who is benefiting from this? It's the banks. Those bonuses are coming from somewhere. It saddens me to see the typical attitude is that rising property is a good thing. Is rising petrol a good thing? Rising groceries?

The sad state of affairs that this has resulted in is a transfer of wealth from the young to the old. The young cannot pay these enormous asking prices demanded by the previous generation, and so they have to rent. Who do they rent from? Those with the properties, those that could buy them with sensible borrowing, because way back before this crazy bubble happened it was possible... and who are they? The previous generation!

So these poor kids are having to hand over upwards of a third of their take home pay that goes straight into the pockets of the previous generation, who did nothing more than be born at a more fortunate time.

The property crash is happening finally and we should ALL be pleased about it.

sunseeker
08-04-2012, 22:17
its the nature of markets. there will always be winers and losers or else it cant work. thats ok if its fair, but its not been in this crisis. the bankers have got bailouts then taken bonuses while we pay 4 it.

cainaries
08-04-2012, 22:41
I know its typical in the uk but this belief that property *should* go up and up in price is completely irrational if you think about it. If you've bought, presumably the reason you sell is to get a different place, usually a larger one. If the price of all property has risen in the meantime it means you need to borrow MORE to 'move up the ladder' (hate that phrase!)... the 'rungs' are further apart. So you're not better off, you're worse off. But if you sell up in order to live in a tent you've gained. I don't think many people do that!

Also if you've got kids, presumably you want them to move out of the family home at some point. With stagnant wages and ever rising house prices as time goes on it becomes harder and harder for them to do so. That's not good either.

Also just *how* can prices go up and up forever, it just doesn't make sense. Wages are not keeping up, people have to borrow more and more to buy property. I know of a property in the uk that was bought for 100k. Today they are asking 250k for it, ten years after they bought it. That means that some poor couple starting out 10 years later due to simply having the misfortune of being born later need to find another 150k of borrowed money to afford the exact same property. And in those 10 years wages have not moved up hardly at all. And when you consider that a mortgage debt costs double what you borrow over the lifetime of the mortgage, this new couple have to find an extra £300,000 from their after tax income to buy the exact same property. Hardly fair is it? Who is benefiting from this? It's the banks. Those bonuses are coming from somewhere. It saddens me to see the typical attitude is that rising property is a good thing. Is rising petrol a good thing? Rising groceries?

The sad state of affairs that this has resulted in is a transfer of wealth from the young to the old. The young cannot pay these enormous asking prices demanded by the previous generation, and so they have to rent. Who do they rent from? Those with the properties, those that could buy them with sensible borrowing, because way back before this crazy bubble happened it was possible... and who are they? The previous generation!

So these poor kids are having to hand over upwards of a third of their take home pay that goes straight into the pockets of the previous generation, who did nothing more than be born at a more fortunate time.

The property crash is happening finally and we should ALL be pleased about it.

I agree with just about everything you've said apart from the 'transfer of wealth from the young to the old'. The young never had that wealth in the first place so they haven't transferred it to the old. You can get a couple who took out a 25 year mortgage when they were 25. When they're 50, they've paid it off and they own their house. Their house will have doubled in price every six years (until recently) so, if they paid £30K for it then, now it should be worth approximately ... £480K. I don't mind if you correct my maths. Only want to say that when OH and I were working in the UK 10-15 years ago we always reckoned our house earned more than we did each year.

You seem to be blaming our generation for this but what should we have done?

slodgedad
08-04-2012, 23:08
As CIM has said more than once, in various threads, what's the point of trying to sell at more than the current market value?

A decent agent will tell you the truth and list your property. Others will just list you.

A small business with hundreds of listings are not doing too good INMHO

(My personal opininion and does not reflect my status on the Forum)

palm
08-04-2012, 23:14
I agree with just about everything you've said apart from the 'transfer of wealth from the young to the old'. The young never had that wealth in the first place so they haven't transferred it to the old.


A couple of things about the wealth transfer - first, it's happening now. Every young person that can't afford a property because of when they were born is paying rent to someone who owns the property they rent. Usually this is the previous generation, because they could afford to buy, so hold most of the property. There are plenty of landlords who bought the property they rent out for a low sum compared to today, and the rent more than covers that mortgage. Money going from young to old.

second - A lot of this wealth has been borrowed by the older generation and the young are repaying it. Someone who bought early enough and saw their property more than double in price often used 'equity release' ; Using their property as a cash machine. Remortgaging, all that kind of thing. They are spending money they haven't earned basically, using the money borrowed against the house. Now, to actually repay that debt they need to sell the house. This is a large part of why plenty of older people cannot afford to lower their asking price... any lower and it won't cover the outstanding debt. BUT when they ask these crazy prices for their property, they are asking for someone else to repay that debt. The money has been spent, all that is left is a property with a mortgage attached. So along comes the young couple, they scrape the deposit together and pay more than double for the same property. They then spend their working life paying off that mortgage - this is work to pay off the previous owners debt. Wealth transfer from young to old.

In the meantime these older people have spent the money they earned and the money their house 'earned'... which of course wasn't actually earned by their house... the house is a pile of bricks and won't fit on the train for a start... the earning is done by the next generation paying off that massive mortgage.



Only want to say that when OH and I were working in the UK 10-15 years ago we always reckoned our house earned more than we did each year.

Quite. And that money wasn't yours until the house was sold, those buying that house are going to have to do the actual work to earn that money.




You seem to be blaming our generation for this but what should we have done?

I didn't mean to imply blame in any other post, it wasn't intended.

But I have to admit it does grate sometimes to hear those who did nothing more than be born at a luckier time berate the young for their relative poverty, saying things like 'they need to do without like we did' and all that unthinking nonsense. It's hard now, and im afraid that is largely down to the previous generation spending all the money.

I don't blame any individuals, but a lot of them just don't understand whats going on, they really think they earned the lifestyle they have. I blame the banks for such irresponsible lending which led to the ludricous house prices in the first place.

However, also, coming back to my dismay at seeing these prices in estate agents windows, it is that generation that generally own these places and places in the uk.. and they ask SO much for these properties. They often couldn't pay that much themselves so why demand it of other people? Greed does come into it as well im afraid, and thats sad to see.

sunseeker
08-04-2012, 23:14
As CIM has said more than once, in various threads, what's the point of trying to sell at more than the current market value?u can try but be willing to acept a lower offer. u need to be realisic with your starting price tho

not 30% to high

slodgedad
08-04-2012, 23:24
u can try but be willing to acept a lower offer. u need to be realisic with your starting price tho

not 30% to high

The biggest problem is people who bought in the boom time (5-7 years ago) are trying to get their money back.

I fall into that category.

I know we all wish we had retrovision but mine now is worth less than I owe, after spending more than 60, 000 to get it.

Luckily my daughter wants to take it on for her future.

CIM
08-04-2012, 23:55
I think greed plays a large part. Someone buys for 70,000€, 10 years later the same apartments are going for 150,000€ so they think they are quids in. The prices take a hiding and now they simply cant contemplate selling at 100,000€ because they think if they do thy have lost 50 grand...

I got an offer of 147,500€ on an apartment priced at 147,500€ a few months ago. Owner then changed his mind and wanted to list it at a higher price - sigh...
Greedy and short sighted. Had another try the same thing a couple of weeks later. I got him full asking price (75,000€) and he then said he wanted another 3,000€ - I delisted it and told him to take his property elsewhere....

I had another owner last month wanting to list at 200,000€ - beautiful property but realistically they are going to get about 150,000€. I told them this several times, pointed out others on the same complex that were bigger and could be had for 160,000€ and one of them said they would simply close the place up and leave it rather than sell for a "low price." They couldn't seem to grasp that no one cares if they are making or losing money, no-one cares if they bought for more than its worth now - buyers couldn't give a monkeys and if sellers cant get their heads around that and price accordingly then they wont sell - simple as that.

Margaretta
09-04-2012, 00:26
Our local shops (in the UK) have notices where people ask to swap similar-type/size homes so that they can move to different areas for work and family reasons. Does this exist in Tenerife?

Houses are getting quite full here; young people can't afford to move away. I heard last week that a friend's daughter and her boyfriend gave up their home together and moved back, each with their own parents. They are still 'together' but although both working just couldn't afford to rent or buy and eat/pay bills etc. Other parents are giving young people deposits to buy from their savings and pensions. It's tough everywhere.

kathml
09-04-2012, 00:53
Part of the trouble is that the young on the whole want it all

They think they are entitled to have foreign holidays nights out weekends away etc along with buying a house/flat

And when or if they finally get one they want new kitchens furniture new cars etc

Our first house was furnished second hand about £100 if I remember right for several years we had no holidays very few nights out no extravigance

I look on at my two daughters who I love dearly who are always complaining about having no money and then I look at their life style and shudder at the continual waste of money

Please don't call me old fashioned it wasn't that many years ago

MartinGoodyer
09-04-2012, 02:03
Have just got back to UK (am back in a few weeks) and had an interesting chat at the airport with a group that had been viewing property. One said very confidently "Prices are high because of the higher weekly rents you can get". Apparently he'd been assured by the real estate agent that all would be well! When I asked if the law regarding letting had been explained and if he knew the difference between a residential and tourist complex...he looked blank. When I unwrapped it for him he and his colleagues were lost for words. In fact I'm not sure they believed me!
It's this lack of honest transparency that's the problem. If trust is lost then sales are a thing of the past.
I would however like to point out that there are highly reputable agents who probably do their level best to be clear about what can and can't be done. I've already had dealings with a couple of people on this forum that have been excellent ; indeed I'm buying somewhere right now from an agent I believe to be one of those who most certainly can be trusted.
Markets however respond to zeitgeist and the emotion of the herd; when there's a run on one bank and trust is lost in banking then there's a run on them all. It's a similar situation with property.
I coached a senior banker in the City of London who took me to the window of his office three months before the financial meltdown; he told me that the internal banking situation was the worst he'd ever seen and that all the people we could see rushing to and fro below had no idea what was going to hit them. When I asked how quickly they'd find out he answered that nothing would change until their confidence was lost... Then the world would change in an instant. How right he was!
It's not facts that will sell property, it's feelings. If a buyer feels confident in their purchase then they will buy. If they can't trust the market or the marketeers then they probably won't.

Velocette
09-04-2012, 02:10
Part of the trouble is that the young on the whole want it all

They think they are entitled to have foreign holidays nights out weekends away etc along with buying a house/flat

And when or if they finally get one they want new kitchens furniture new cars etc

Our first house was furnished second hand about £100 if I remember right for several years we had no holidays very few nights out no extravigance

I look on at my two daughters who I love dearly who are always complaining about having no money and then I look at their life style and shudder at the continual waste of money

Please don't call me old fashioned it wasn't that many years ago

How sharper than a serpents tooth it is to have a thankless child . . . . . .Spokeshaf

seanocelt
09-04-2012, 02:44
Great debate, the forum needs this kind of input. Here's mine; original poster "palm" , have you been reading my mind? , as i am equally astonished at some asking prices. C.I.M. , Andy, again thanks for the honesty, you could easily say less, its a credit to you that you are so candid. Take note some others. General input from me; looking at the commercial market, its even more unrealisitc, a SATURATED market, but as a respected agent told me " they say, i paid "x", spent "y" so i want to sell at "z" .......". And the profit of the business is?? Just dont ask. There's a few bubbles here right now, due to burst.

poker
09-04-2012, 06:10
I had another owner last month wanting to list at 200,000€ - beautiful property but realistically they are going to get about 150,000€. I told them this several times, pointed out others on the same complex that were bigger and could be had for 160,000€ and one of them said they would simply close the place up and leave it rather than sell for a "low price.


Think the spanish gouvernment should tax all the empty properties more.
And what about taxing all those ugly skeletons and half built houses .
Only then would we see the real value after some time.

Peaple forget also here most houses are built really cheap compaired to UK and other EU propery .
They are just a 1 asch stone wall with some plaster .


Sent using Tapatalk.

delderek
09-04-2012, 09:18
Think the spanish gouvernment should tax all the empty properties more.
And what about taxing all those ugly skeletons and half built houses .
Only then would we see the real value after some time.

Peaple forget also here most houses are built really cheap compaired to UK and other EU propery .
They are just a 1 asch stone wall with some plaster .


Sent using Tapatalk.

Good point that. I wonder how long the useful life of some of these complexes will be. Looking at some of the old complexes in Los Cris, and the major restoration needed to make them safe. It must surely be a long term worry.

mike in chayofa
09-04-2012, 09:59
I turn down a lot of property listings because prices are unreasonable.

OK . so - a serious question.

This would indicate that you are advertising properties at 'realistic' prices. As a general rule, are these properties selling at these prices, or are people still making offers - either sensible or otherwise?


I see no point at all in stockpiling over 1000 properties on my website so I dont...... so they end up with another property that wont sell .

Agreed, but I have another question because having been in the business years ago (and now slightly out of touch)


An absolute bargain of a property! This will sell – and fast!

The above is a quote from your website. The listing is over three years old.

Does this mean that the property wasn't a bargain? If it was, what went wrong?

I am not 'having a go' just genuinly interested.

CIM
09-04-2012, 10:34
OK . so - a serious question.

This would indicate that you are advertising properties at 'realistic' prices. As a general rule, are these properties selling at these prices, or are people still making offers - either sensible or otherwise?

Properties are selling when priced correctly - no doubt about it. When taking properties on I really only want to be taking property on if I think it is sell-able. 3 months is the target although higher priced property and niche property is always going to take quite a bit longer on average as there are fewer buyers available.
People still make offers but for the most part but they are reasonable and realistic as I try and make it clear either in the listing or during the viewing whether the owner is negotiable and if so by around how much or what I think they should be offering. I do get annoyed with people coming in with low ball offers as I am taking on pretty much the best priced property on the market and will have already done my best to get the price down to a level where it will sell. I know some agents do the opposite (load it on so they can knock something off) but what sellers need to understand when pricing are two things:


The price must be low enough to attract interest and get you viewings.
The price must be high enough that it is acceptable to you.

Most sellers fail at point one. Most buyers fail at point two.


Agreed, but I have another question because having been in the business years ago (and now slightly out of touch)

The above is a quote from your website. The listing is over three years old.

Does this mean that the property wasn't a bargain? If it was, what went wrong?

I am not 'having a go' just genuinely interested.

Depends which property it was - add a link and I´ll tell you what happened with it. Some buyers simply miss the boat and reduce their prices far too late - following the market down. I have a few I can think of off the top of my head who, had they priced originally at what they have now reduced to, would most likely have sold when they first listed it. Other times I list at a really good price and there is little or no interest which can be difficult to fathom. I have sold other properties at prices I didn´t expect to - you just never know and that goes both ways.

palm
09-04-2012, 10:55
Part of the trouble is that the young on the whole want it all

They think they are entitled to have foreign holidays nights out weekends away etc along with buying a house/flat


If I may refer the honorable lady to the post I made some hours before :


But I have to admit it does grate sometimes to hear those who did nothing more than be born at a luckier time berate the young for their relative poverty, saying things like 'they need to do without like we did' and all that unthinking nonsense. It's hard now, and im afraid that is largely down to the previous generation spending all the money.


You're not doing the sums. The cost of many things compared to wages has changed over the years. Today you can have a holiday abroad for a week or twos pay, not so in the past. Technology has moved on, globalisation has meant much lower priced consumer goods relative to wages, this isn't comparing like with like.

The fact is if the younger generation did scrimp and save and live like monks they still couldn't afford property at todays prices. Those older now who generally hold all the property would have bought it for something like 2 to 3 times household income... and let's not forget that is household income typically from ONE earner.

Nowadays both partners HAVE to work and are expected to borrow 8+ times JOINT income for the same properties the last generation had for relative peanuts 20 odd years before.

And as I explained before this discrepancy is largely down to those born at a luckier time spending the 'equity' from their property and expecting those that follow to repay it for them... so it's a little rich hearing those of that generation lecturing those left with the bill about living within their means.

I know it wasn't meant with malice and you didn't know what you were doing and the banks showered you all with money that was hard to turn down... but please it would be helpful if you took the time to understand what is happening rather than look down on the victims.

cheery
09-04-2012, 10:59
CIM makes very valid points throughout this thread. My OH has been an estate agent over here for 12 years. They sell more property than other agents (in fact others have gone bust) because they price realistically. Greedy vendors don't like being told by OH's agency they can only get 'x' for their property and this is what it will cost (%). They then go with another agent because they do a fixed cost and can get £30k more. So the cost of selling is less because of the ratio. Now fast forward 6 months, few if any viewers and a reduced price similar to what was quoted by OH's office. The selling cost ratio has now swung around so that OH's prices are better. they go on the market with them and at a realistic price it sell quickly.

In the meantime they will have viewed lots of properties they wanted if only they could sell. Also, before the crash there was one particular instance of a Turkish man wanting a property for £200k . He couldn't afford it based on the information given by him (only £125k) and stormed out shouting. A few days later he came back in saying such and such organisation would lend him the money. So, the man is now in negative equity to a huge sum if he was to sell and all because of greed from several different people. Financial institutions, the man for being stupid and the vendor (if others on here are to be taken as right). Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay.

mike in chayofa
09-04-2012, 11:22
.......Depends which property it was - add a link and I´ll tell you what happened with it. .

[URL="http://tenerifeestateagents.net/three-bed-apartment-tenerife-reduced-to-sell/"]THIS ONE[/UROK - I've just taken a look and it isn't the average type of property that you are aiming at.

The reason that I am so interested in all this is that my bungalow is on the market for what most agents see as a realistic price.

I have had viewings and have been fortunate enough to have had interested people, but it has not, so far, ticked all the boxes that these viewers wanted. The last people that viewed loved the house, but came to see if the garden could be modified to grow fruit trees :mad: ... these people already have a villa on the mainland, a house by the lakes in the UK and a place in Portugal. The last time that they returned to the UK, they apparently took 500 home grown lemons with them, so why they would want to grow more fruit is beyond me ???

Anyway, although I remodelled and basically reconstructed my house several years ago to my specification, I now find that due to a change in circumstances, it isn't ideal for my current requirements.

The problem is that I am not pushing to sell because I just can't find anything that I want to buy - regardless of budget.

The only way that it seems that I can get what I want is to move to the north of the island. I am not that familiar with that area, so it would be like moving to another country and starting again and if I was to consider that, I may as well move to another country, but where?

All this pesamistic talk (now matter how justified) is making me wary of spending half a million euros on this island. My house is my home, so as an investment, it doesn't really matter at the moment, but supposing I need to move in the future and end up with an unsaleable 'investment'?

CIM
09-04-2012, 11:39
That property is long gone, it is marked as sold in the database so shouldn't be coming up in the site search. It was based on the original site I set up which has since been completely updated and replaced.

Some of the objections people come with can be difficult to swallow! Especially if you are showing someone exactly what they have asked for. It is one of the reasons I try and do descriptive write ups and use lots of photos. If there is something about a property that someone really wont like and would stop them from buying, I want them to be aware of this before booking a viewing - cuts down on wasted time for all parties.

cainaries
09-04-2012, 11:42
I would agree with you again that my generation (I'm a baby boomer - how I hate that phrase) were lucky in some respects, yes. OH would tell you that we (he and I) have ended up where we have ended up because of a lot of careful planning and organisation. OH and I bought our stepson a flat years ago. He was so bad at paying the bills and looking after everything that we sold it and booted him out. tough love perhaps but still. My cousin bought a flat for her 2 sons to share - they were supposed to pay her rent but often 'forgot'. She sold it and booted them out. All 3 of these children took themselves on ski-ing holidays, summer holidays, went out to the pub most nights. Of course all people are different but I'm a bit cynical about all this 'life is tough'.

mike in chayofa
09-04-2012, 12:10
PS .... THIS (http://www.segundamano.es/sta-cruz-tenerife/casa-de-244-m2-en-santa-ursula-gangorra/a32108198/?ca=38_s&st=s&c=59) is what I want - but in the south.

Anyone any ideas of where I can find something like it?

palm
09-04-2012, 12:12
I would agree with you again that my generation (I'm a baby boomer - how I hate that phrase) were lucky in some respects, yes. OH would tell you that we (he and I) have ended up where we have ended up because of a lot of careful planning and organisation.

...

I'm a bit cynical about all this 'life is tough'.

If all it took was some organisation you really have had it easier!

Here's an article if anyone is interested, it's really not all in my mind!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2055497/JEREMY-PAXMAN-Baby-Boomers-selfish-generation-history.html

From the daily mail no less, boomers like that one don't they! ;)

CIM
09-04-2012, 17:07
PS .... THIS (http://www.segundamano.es/sta-cruz-tenerife/casa-de-244-m2-en-santa-ursula-gangorra/a32108198/?ca=38_s&st=s&c=59) is what I want - but in the south.

Anyone any ideas of where I can find something like it?

There are some beautiful homes up in the North around La Orotava and Icod - I get quite a few bank repossessions up there too but just not enough demand for them from my target market. I have lived there myself Mike and if your Spanish is a decent level its a nice place to be although there's nowhere near the amount of Brits in those areas - only Puerto really.
If it wasn't for the long drive to get to the South I would be looking up that way myself.

cainaries
09-04-2012, 18:42
If all it took was some organisation you really have had it easier!

Here's an article if anyone is interested, it's really not all in my mind!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2055497/JEREMY-PAXMAN-Baby-Boomers-selfish-generation-history.html

From the daily mail no less, boomers like that one don't they! ;)

I wouldn't dream of arguing against Jeremy Paxman. Personally - not richer than my parents and not richer than my grandparents ... but that's probably unusual. Divorces also mean money going out of families, homes breaking up, etc.

Anyhow, rather off topic now.

golf birdie
09-04-2012, 18:45
Great debate, the forum needs this kind of input. Here's mine; original poster "palm" , have you been reading my mind? , as i am equally astonished at some asking prices. C.I.M. , Andy, again thanks for the honesty, you could easily say less, its a credit to you that you are so candid. Take note some others. General input from me; looking at the commercial market, its even more unrealisitc, a SATURATED market, but as a respected agent told me " they say, i paid "x", spent "y" so i want to sell at "z" .......". And the profit of the business is?? Just dont ask. There's a few bubbles here right now, due to burst.

the commercial market is a joke, some of the prices for rent are beyond belief. I once asked a Spanish lawyer why they kept getting these silly rents and he anwsered in one word, Brits.