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View Full Version : Is Tenerife going to the dogs? Doom and gloom!



CIM
29-05-2011, 19:30
What do you think? We have been in this depression for ages now. Any signs that things are getting better out there or are businesses still folding all over the place?

Will it get even worse before it gets better, Is it just going to drag on and on in misery or are things starting to pick up?

Personally, I am not seeing any signs of a pending recovery. I think we will be stuck in this rut for a while longer.

DJ Dangerous
29-05-2011, 19:33
Who are you to say that?

CIMandSi?

doreen
29-05-2011, 19:36
Well, there was a nearly 12% increase in tourists in the first quarter (http://www.eldia.es/2011-03-28/economia/19-numero-turistas-llegados-Tenerife-incrementa.htm) so obviously the hospitality sector was better than last year ... still coming out of a long downturn.

But May (and early June) is never a good time to ask about business on the island.

tonypub
29-05-2011, 19:37
incomes are down,inflation is up,taxs are up.the man on the street has less money to spend.its a global thing really not a tenerife thing.all we can do is work hard at what we do and cut costs.if the european intrest rates keep rising then the property sector here will stagnate even further.like you say its gunna be a long haul.

Pooh
29-05-2011, 19:42
What do you think? We have been in this depression for ages now. Any signs that things are getting better out there or are businesses still folding all over the place?

Will it get even worse before it gets better, Is it just going to drag on and on in misery or are things starting to pick up?

Personally, I am not seeing any signs of a pending recovery. I think we will be stuck in this rut for a while longer.

No, Tenerife will pick up quickly from 1st of June, when I arrive and gives its economy a permanent boost! ;)
So you only need to wait for 3 more days! :D

tonypub
29-05-2011, 19:42
on a brighter note tenerife south has had heaps of cash spent on infastructure and is looking like a quality resort again.i doubt the competing resorts will be able to match what has been done here for a long long time to come.

CIM
29-05-2011, 19:43
Rising interest rates are a worry - especially for those with mortgages who are just hanging on.
You think Spain will end up needing a bailout? Greece are back at the table asking more more.

tonypub
29-05-2011, 19:45
Rising interest rates are a worry - especially for those with mortgages who are just hanging on.
You think Spain will end up needing a bailout? Greece are back at the table asking more more.i personally think there is a bigger bubble to burst,bigger than anything weve seen before.i dread to think of the effect it will have.

CIM
29-05-2011, 19:45
on a brighter note tenerife south has had heaps of cash spent on infastructure and is looking like a quality resort again.i doubt the competing resorts will be able to match what has been done here for a long long time to come.

I have noticed that too - shedloads of cash going into the place at the moment. Lots of road resurfacing happening. All the way from Guaza to Las Galletas has just been done. Local government dont seem to be short of a bob or two.

doreen
29-05-2011, 19:47
I have noticed that too - shedloads of cash going into the place at the moment. Lots of road resurfacing happening. All the way from Guaza to Las Galletas has just been done. Local government dont seem to be short of a bob or two.

We've just had elections ... or am I being cynical :)

tonypub
29-05-2011, 19:48
I have noticed that too - shedloads of cash going into the place at the moment. Lots of road resurfacing happening. All the way from Guaza to Las Galletas has just been done. Local government dont seem to be short of a bob or two.people will see other resorts run down n grotty whereas tfs will be all shiney and new for the next few years.better times lie ahead for tfs

Harmonicaman
29-05-2011, 19:51
Have they started the railway stations yet?

Pooh
29-05-2011, 19:52
Aren't Tenerife getting some funds from the EU?
There are usually a lot of regional support money to be had for remote regions.
But perhaps not, since the Canaries aren't really in the EU...?

Pooh
29-05-2011, 19:53
Have they started the railway stations yet?

I saw something that they would start any time now.

CIM
29-05-2011, 19:53
Have they started the railway stations yet?

Not that I have seen - unless someone knows different?

tonypub
29-05-2011, 19:55
Have they started the railway stations yet?supposed to be starting them some time soon

richie
29-05-2011, 19:56
Have they started the railway stations yet?

something for all you train spotters to look forward to. lol

Mike Hunt
29-05-2011, 19:57
What do you think? We have been in this depression for ages now. Any signs that things are getting better out there or are businesses still folding all over the place?

Will it get even worse before it gets better, Is it just going to drag on and on in misery or are things starting to pick up?

Personally, I am not seeing any signs of a pending recovery. I think we will be stuck in this rut for a while longer.

I am not suprised that, to use your words in the posting "We have been in this depression for ages now."
"Personally, I am not seeing any signs of a pending recovery. I think we will be stuck in this rut for a while longer.[/"
Only the Businesses who enforce strong, hardworking, customer oriented ethics will survive and succeed.
The others, like you quote "Is it just going to drag on and on in misery or are things starting to pick up?"
The short and honest answer to that is a resounding "NO!!".
You made your bed, now lie in it.
You Reap what you sow.
Enjoy.

doreen
29-05-2011, 19:58
Aren't Tenerife getting some funds from the EU?
There are usually a lot of regional support money to be had for remote regions.
But perhaps not, since the Canaries aren't really in the EU...?

Yes ... EU funds are available ... and not always wisely used :(

http://thebureauinvestigates.com/2010/07/06/lanzarote-faces-losing-its-eco-status/

CIM
29-05-2011, 19:58
Stick any information you have about the new railway line and trains in the railway lines and trains thread here:
http://www.tenerifeforum.org/tenerife-forum/showthread.php?183-The-new-Tenerife-train-railway-project&p=1316#post1316

CIM
29-05-2011, 20:01
something for all you train spotters to look forward to. lol

I think Vortex Wake is a train spotter - heīll love that. Especially when the train goes past the airport - heīll explode with excitement!

DJ Dangerous
29-05-2011, 20:44
I think Vortex Wake is a train spotter - heīll love that. Especially when the train goes the airport - heīll explode with excitement!

Ew, messy...

Anyhow, since the global economies are based on limitless growth and limited resources, we are heading for some sort of doomsday scenario, economically, unless something changes drastically.

SuzyQ
30-05-2011, 01:53
For me, it feels better this Spring than last. The bars restaurants I work in are saying they are up on 2010, and I really think we have turned the corner. OK, its not going to be 1995 again for a long time, perhaps never, but I think weīre on the up. Personally :)

slodgedad
30-05-2011, 01:56
For me, it feels better this Spring than last. The bars restaurants I work in are saying they are up on 2010, and I really think we have turned the corner. OK, its not going to be 1995 again for a long time, perhaps never, but I think weīre on the up. Personally :)

Hope you're right Sue.......Still begging for work

SuzyQ
30-05-2011, 01:58
Eyes and ears open for you my friend x

with cheese
30-05-2011, 07:16
Hope you're right Sue.......Still begging for work
Its a shame that people struggle for work, I have seen an increase in persons this year. Surely some good soul can get a bums on seats report from the aviation.

TenerifeTeddy
30-05-2011, 10:29
I think there has been an improvement over the winter and into the spring, though this time of year is always the quietest I think.

There are so many reasons why so many are unemployed in Spain and the Canaries, but the labour laws still have a lot to answer for IMO even though they have been softened.

I am not for a moment suggesting that there are not occasions when staff are unfairly treated, of course that happens, but it is by no means a one way street.

It is still very expensive to lay staff off who are on contract if a business suffers a downturn, or to dismiss a member of staff for misconduct. That and the threat of tribunals by any employee who thinks he has been hard done by make it much easier for businesses not to risk taking on staff on indefinido contracts. One disgruntled employee can easily break a business these days and put other staff out of work in the process.

This has to have an effect on the types of contract and the duration of employment that a business will offer to any potential employee.

CIM
30-05-2011, 10:34
Iīd agree about the employment laws. They encourage staff to turn into lazy so and soīs once they have an indefinido. They have probably been treat badly in the past so have little or no respect for business owners and look to take full advantage. This in turn means employers only want to keep people on for 3 to 6 months then find someone else. A vicious circle unfortunately. High staff turnover results in poor service and staff being laid off every 3 months means lots of people claiming paro which is a drain on social security. Whats the answer though? Itīs a big problems here.

TenerifeTeddy
30-05-2011, 11:05
We get people in the shop all the time who are printing off their CVīs, many who work in restaurants or bars and have had 15-20 jobs, often for only weeks or months at a time.

lord_cheeseman
30-05-2011, 11:18
Iīd agree about the employment laws. They encourage staff to turn into lazy so and soīs once they have an indefinido. They have probably been treat badly in the past so have little or no respect for business owners and look to take full advantage. This in turn means employers only want to keep people on for 3 to 6 months then find someone else. A vicious circle unfortunately. High staff turnover results in poor service and staff being laid off every 3 months means lots of people claiming paro which is a drain on social security. Whats the answer though? Itīs a big problems here.

do people on an indefinado contract really get 48 days a year paid holiday?

fonica
30-05-2011, 11:22
With banks lending 100%+mortgages to people buying directly from the banks list of repossessions you will no doubt be suffering more than most but in general there is a feeling of movement and the local Spanish people seem to be more positive about the future of the island.Keep smiling it can only get better.

CIM
30-05-2011, 11:24
With banks lending 100%+mortgages to people buying directly from the banks list of repossessions you will no doubt be suffering more than most but in general there is a feeling of movement and the local Spanish people seem to be more positive about the future of the island.Keep smiling it can only get better.
On the contrary, but I dont like to go on about doing well when others are suffering. And if I thought a business owner was having a hard time the last thing Iīd do is mock them on here but each to their own, if thats what you get off on - you carry on.

CIM
30-05-2011, 11:28
do people on an indefinado contract really get 48 days a year paid holiday?
Dunno how much they get as I donīt employ anyone. Everyone who works for or with me does so on a self employed basis.

doreen
30-05-2011, 11:35
do people on an indefinado contract really get 48 days a year paid holiday?

I've just asked about the Hosteleria Convenio ... the worker has a choice of 30 days holidays (that's one month off, not 30 working days) plus his bolsa de vacaciones (around 900 euros net) or 45 to 48 days holidays depending on how many Bank Holidays there are in a year

leo_london
30-05-2011, 11:47
incomes are down,inflation is up,taxs are up.the man on the street has less money to spend.its a global thing really not a tenerife thing.all we can do is work hard at what we do and cut costs.if the european intrest rates keep rising then the property sector here will stagnate even further.like you say its gunna be a long haul.

I agree. Tenerife doesn't operate in isolation, the world (or at least the European) economy will dictate the future. In the UK, I believe the worst is yet to come. We have yet to feel the true effects of the cuts/austerity measures, people are still enjoying a kind of remission.
At present, large numbers of people have been relatively unaffected, and there seems to be a widespread feeling that public sector cuts will only hurt those directly affected.
In my opinion people are in for a shock, things are going to get very tough over the next few years, and the private sector will not escape unscathed.
As for Tenerife, you lot know the island far better than I do, so I'm not going to even pretend to have any answers. But one thing is almost certain, even in troubled times it would appear that a holiday remains a priority for most people (after essentials of course)..so providing Tenerife can continue to offer value for money, things should remain "ticking over". For individual businesses, going the extra yard to provide a service is more important now..but you lot know that already. :)

tonypub
30-05-2011, 11:53
a recession dosent always affect everyone.i worked through 3 including this one,and till this one i didnt know about the other two.lol/

leo_london
30-05-2011, 11:57
a recession dosent always affect everyone.i worked through 3 including this one,and till this one i didnt know about the other two.lol/

Yes, I'm old enough to remember the "three day week", with power cuts etc. I was doing very well at the time, and it didn't affect me at all. On the other hand, the early 80's were dreadful..for me anyway.

fonica
30-05-2011, 12:09
Thought I was being simpathetic but you didn't take it that way.

On the contrary, but I dont like to go on about doing well when others are suffering. And if I thought a business owner was having a hard time the last thing Iīd do is mock them on here but each to their own, if thats what you get off on - you carry on.

CIM
30-05-2011, 12:23
We were hit pretty hard on the mortgage side in 2008. The whole industry basically shut down for 6 months - bloody nightmare! Thatīs the worst it has been for me since being in Spain though - everything has got better but that's more down to expanding our lead generation than the economy improving.

There have been and still are opportunities - many businesses have cut back on advertising or topped completely so there are exploitable gaps in the market if you know how to advertise effectively on a low budget.

fonica
30-05-2011, 12:33
The banks caused the problem with their stupid lending to every man and his dog at 110 % of false property values (valued by themselves) and now they are making it worse by flooding the market with repossession properties as rock bottom prices and then only giving mortgages to people buying from themselves.I would have thought this to be illegal anywhere other than here.My son bought a property at 120,000€ in Guargacho,got 115% mortgage and came out with 6,000€ cash in his pocket plus an apartment,the downside of the transaction is that he now has a property worth 70,000 and the bank doesn't care!!

YOUNG GOLFER
30-05-2011, 12:44
With banks lending 100%+mortgages to people buying directly from the banks list of repossessions you will no doubt be suffering more than most but in general there is a feeling of movement and the local Spanish people seem to be more positive about the future of the island.Keep smiling it can only get better.

I think most people are aware of the repossessions the banks offer along with the 100% plus mortgages....but around 95% of my clients are only interested in the area around my office Torviscas Fanabe ect.....and and to be honest there are not many repossessions on a lot of the complexes i have property for sale on.

Most repossessions seem to be that little bit out of resort....mind you i have seen the odd couple on a complex or two but when talking to one bank i found their prices a lot higher. One unit a client was interested was 102.000€ through the bank....i was able to offer one on the same row at only 81.000.

CIM
30-05-2011, 12:46
The banks caused the problem with their stupid lending to every man and his dog at 110 % of false property values (valued by themselves) and now they are making it worse by flooding the market with repossession properties as rock bottom prices and then only giving mortgages to people buying from themselves.I would have thought this to be illegal anywhere other than here.My son bought a property at 120,000€ in Guargacho,got 115% mortgage and came out with 6,000€ cash in his pocket plus an apartment,the downside of the transaction is that he now has a property worth 70,000 and the bank doesn't care!!

Its not a total disaster so long as he doesnīt need to sell it anytime soon but not a good situation for him. The developers were also complicit and part of the problem, as were the agents but it was happening all over Spain - all over the world in fact. Now it will cost the banks a packet, their repo books are growing and growing and many of them are still oblivious to the problem and have no chance of offloading them. They are very ineffective in marketing real estate. Believe me, their stupidity knows no bounds....

reggie
30-05-2011, 12:49
115% mortgage is 15% more than the apartment is worth, then 10% fee's, then €6k in your pocket, just think about it, It's not all the banks fault, Bit like time share, There all still moaning, sorry about your son, but if it sounds too good to be true, it usualy is

fonica
30-05-2011, 12:52
115% mortgage is 15% more than the apartment is worth, then 10% fee's, then €6k in your pocket, just think about it, It's not all the banks fault, Bit like time share, There all still moaning, sorry about your son, but if it sounds too good to be true, it usualy is

Totally agree except this was happening with all mortgage applications until 2 years ago and with the banks telling youngsters that this was the way forward who was going to listen to the parental warning about "all good things come to an end"

leo_london
30-05-2011, 13:03
Yes Andy, I'm still following your site (excellent btw)..there are apparently some real bargains around. But are they bargains ?..nobody knows what the market will be like a year from now. That's life, business is simple really..in the end it's just supply and demand.
There is one little phrase you use that always gives me a guilty feeling of satisfaction.."distressed developer"..who isn't a little pleased to hear of property developers being distressed ? :)

TenerifeTeddy
30-05-2011, 13:05
I first got on the property market in 1982, with the help of 100% mortgage. I certainly couldnīt have got my own house without that at that time.

As long as you donīt need to sell quickly it is a way of getting started, but with property prices so depressed and the market so saturated, it is much more of a risk now as it is going to take a long time for the property to appreciate in value enough to cover the costs if you have to sell.

reggie
30-05-2011, 13:07
Yes Andy, I'm still following your site (excellent btw)..there are apparently some real bargains around. But are they bargains ?..nobody knows what the market will be like a year from now. That's life, business is simple really..in the end it's just supply and demand.
There is one little phrase you use that always gives me a guilty feeling of satisfaction.."distressed developer"..who isn't a little pleased to hear of property developers being distressed ? :)

A developer distressed, they will claim to be, but i doubt it, Its called shirking your responsabilitys

CIM
30-05-2011, 13:11
Yes Andy, I'm still following your site (excellent btw)..there are apparently some real bargains around. But are they bargains ?..nobody knows what the market will be like a year from now. That's life, business is simple really..in the end it's just supply and demand.
There is one little phrase you use that always gives me a guilty feeling of satisfaction.."distressed developer"..who isn't a little pleased to hear of property developers being distressed ? :)

I have the same reservations. The way I judge them is to look at everything comparable on the same complex. If what I get isnīt the best price I donīt list it. I actually have over 1000 properties but most of them donīt cut the mustard (weird areas, terrible condition, way overpriced by some bank goon) so only pick out the best. Same with private sales though, many sellers are way off the mark when it comes to pricing so I am very choosy about what goes on there. Donņt think my subscribers want to have to sort through a 1000 properties to find a bargain so I do it for them. I think around 60% of what I listed has been sold so my side of the market is very active.
Distressed developers need a good kick up the ****. So many of them are so incredibly narrow minded - it beggars belief. Dealing with them can be a nightmare! They hate estate agents :)

reggie
30-05-2011, 13:13
I first got on the property market in 1982, with the help of 100% mortgage. I certainly couldnīt have got my own house without that at that time.

As long as you donīt need to sell quickly it is a way of getting started, but with property prices so depressed and the market so saturated, it is much more of a risk now as it is going to take a long time for the property to appreciate in value enough to cover the costs if you have to sell.

Why people are so worried about how much their house apartment is worth, Its where you live, It dosnt have to go up or down in value, If you spend €20k on a car, and run it for 5 years, do you expect it to be worth €50k, if you like your apartment and it gives you pleasure to stay in it, what the hell, we all die with zero, Less of the negative waves,

CIM
30-05-2011, 13:14
"Negative waves" I like that phrase Reggie! Will be using that one "Quit sending me negative waves dude!!!"

reggie
30-05-2011, 13:19
"Negative waves" I like that phrase Reggie! Will be using that one "Quit sending me negative waves dude!!!"

Kelly's hero's, silly bo--ox with the tank, sutherland bloke,

CIM
30-05-2011, 13:20
I liked that movie - was that a quote from it? Donald Sutherland - he was good in that :)

reggie
30-05-2011, 13:26
I liked that movie - was that a quote from it? Donald Sutherland - he was good in that :)Yeh thats the guy, I'm not good with name's Ruth,
Also " catching some Rays " Sun bathing, ha ha ,

with cheese
30-05-2011, 20:26
Yeh thats the guy, I'm not good with name's Ruth,
Also " catching some Rays " Sun bathing, ha ha ,

Blow off the bloody doors.

Sal
30-05-2011, 20:30
"Negative waves" I like that phrase Reggie! Will be using that one "Quit sending me negative waves dude!!!"


Kelly's hero's, silly bo--ox with the tank, sutherland bloke,


I liked that movie - was that a quote from it? Donald Sutherland - he was good in that :)


Yeh thats the guy, I'm not good with name's Ruth,
Also " catching some Rays " Sun bathing, ha ha ,


Blow off the bloody doors.

Hmmmmmmmmmm! :whistle: I feel an "Off-Topic" thread coming on!!! ;)