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View Full Version : Finance Spain's borrowing interest rate passes 7%



carpenter
24-07-2012, 14:56
Anything over 7% is unsustainable and last night the level of interest that the Spanish have to agree to before they borrow any money stood at 7.5%.

This is the same as a man borrowing some money and agreeing to pay back 100 a week when he only earns 99 per week.

I was told a story a the other day how there were two Spanish brothers.

One brother employed the other brother for a year and then laid him off. The unemployed Brother then claimed paro for the maximum period before then employing the brother that previously employed him, and guess what? After a year that brother sacked his brother and he then claimed paro for the maximum period. Then when his paro ran out he then re employed his brother. You get how the system is bled dry.

The different municipalities ran out of money a long time ago and they cannot sustain the benefit payments and are now asking for help from Madrid.

At risk of being called negative, Spain is screwed and despite radical cuts made by the government the economy is on a slippery slope and workers are only looking at the here and now and not the future. Striking and working to rule is not the answer.

Take less afternoon naps Pedro and get some work done!!

TF1
24-07-2012, 15:47
Im sure youll find that "Pedro" has not taken a siesta since the 1970s, and that the UKs handouts for teenage mums and immigrants far exceeds the Spanish welfare bill. The problem is more linked to political and juridical corruption than the average Spanish worker.

carpenter
24-07-2012, 16:24
Im sure youll find that "Pedro" has not taken a siesta since the 1970s, and that the UKs handouts for teenage mums and immigrants far exceeds the Spanish welfare bill. The problem is more linked to political and juridical corruption than the average Spanish worker.

At the time you posted this most shops on this island were actually closed! Why? cos it was siesta time and it's 2012 not 1970
The UK hand outs to teenage mums and immigrants can be and are sustained by tax and NI payments so what's your point?

Why have we tried to move this back to a "well in the UK" topic. I don't live in the UK, I don't pay tax in the UK, I don't get benefit from either country. I live here so I'm a little concerned about how much my car will be worth in a few months, how much dog food will be, fuel, baby clothes etc etc....

TF1
24-07-2012, 16:55
I suppose youre not familiar with the legal reasons that certain businesses in most autonomous communities have restrictions of their opening hours. (this law has just been liberated, but it is yet to take effect). I suspect that you know little about Spanish society. Workers take a break, usually meet with their families (very few take siestas these days), then return for a late afternoon shift. So the same, or more hours, are worked in Spain than the average European week.

It is you that brought the "compare to UK" angle to the thread by criticizing the point that Spanish businesses close for split shifts, Im assuming that you expect the rest of Europe to work good old fashioned UK 9 to 5 ....???

Regarding the bleak prospects which are ahead of us, all I can say is that one of my colleagues is working in Rhodes, and although life is difficult, he still considers the advantages to outweigh the disadvantages. This will be a personal choice for each and every ex-pat who lives here, many have already made their choice and returned to 9 to 5 land.

carpenter
24-07-2012, 17:17
The Shop owners of Santa Cruz campaigned for years for the authorities to relax their strict Sunday trading hours so that they could open on Sunday's. This was due to the massive cruise ships that docked at Santa Cruz on a Sunday and the traders pointed out that they were losing thousands of Euros because they weren't allowed to open.
The authorities decided to relax the hours and allow them to open and if it was a success then it would be brought in around the island.

Less than 25% of the campaigning shop owners bothered to open! So you can't blame it on strict opening hours.

Also how the hell do you expect to trade in Europe (which Spain is still part of) if you close for a major part of the day.

It is not known what will happen in the future all I know is that the Spanish system has not worked! It did work but that was a long time ago.

I do not want Spain to follow Greece who does? Even the Greeks don't know there own arses from their own elbows at the moment. I'm trying to earn a living and support a family so I want stability not wishy washy economics.

universal
24-07-2012, 17:22
From The Telegraph:
By Martin Roberts, in Madrid3:48PM BST 23 Jul 201252 Comments
Spain introduced new laws this month allowing shops of more than 300 square meters to open for 25pc longer a week.
It is hoped that the relaxed rules will encourage retailers to sell during the traditional afternoon break from 2pm to 4pm.
However, many workers say they have been putting in longer hours for some time. “The three-hour lunch no longer exists, and to tell the truth, it did make you rather sleepy,” said bank clerk Melania Duenas, 34. “Nowadays, people get an hour’s break at most, and those who do tend to come to work with tupperware containers.”
Shops, too, are striving to eliminate the three-hour black hole in the afternoon and new government regulations introduced this month will allow shops covering 300 square metres or more to open 90 hours a week rather than 72 previously, in a bid to revive retail sales, which in May were down 4.3pc from the same month last year.
Old rules drawn up to favour religious observance in a traditionally Catholic country are also being relaxed as shops will also be allowed to open on 10 rather than eight Sundays or public holidays a year.

carpenter
24-07-2012, 17:38
From The Telegraph:
By Martin Roberts, in Madrid3:48PM BST 23 Jul 201252 Comments
Spain introduced new laws this month allowing shops of more than 300 square meters to open for 25pc longer a week.
It is hoped that the relaxed rules will encourage retailers to sell during the traditional afternoon break from 2pm to 4pm.
However, many workers say they have been putting in longer hours for some time. “The three-hour lunch no longer exists, and to tell the truth, it did make you rather sleepy,” said bank clerk Melania Duenas, 34. “Nowadays, people get an hour’s break at most, and those who do tend to come to work with tupperware containers.”
Shops, too, are striving to eliminate the three-hour black hole in the afternoon and new government regulations introduced this month will allow shops covering 300 square metres or more to open 90 hours a week rather than 72 previously, in a bid to revive retail sales, which in May were down 4.3pc from the same month last year.
Old rules drawn up to favour religious observance in a traditionally Catholic country are also being relaxed as shops will also be allowed to open on 10 rather than eight Sundays or public holidays a year.

Shops over 300 sqm can open longer and skip siesta! Unfortunately that's typical of Spain thinking that big businesses are the be all and end all of the economy when in fact it's the smaller medium size businesses that provide the majority of the jobs. These businesses aren't usually anywhere near that size and therefor cannot open.

I was unaware that it was law rather than laziness why the stores closed but again that just goes to show how not to run a country.

It's a shame,

Harmonicaman
24-07-2012, 17:40
...and stop taking 340 fiesta days a year off....

carpenter
24-07-2012, 17:48
It is you that brought the "compare to UK" angle to the thread by criticizing the point that Spanish businesses close for split shifts, Im assuming that you expect the rest of Europe to work good old fashioned UK 9 to 5 ....???


Assuming with me is never easy and never right! I do not think that it is a sign of good or sensible business when you are closed for a large part of the trading day, I have never worked 9-5 in my life. 6am to 10pm yes and all the hours I can, if my boss asked for more I gave it to him, if my wife asked for more I asked my boss for more hours. I looked forward to my weekends and holidays. I took pride in my work.

Pride in work that's something you don't see anymore.............

Harmonicaman
24-07-2012, 17:51
Assuming with me is never easy and never right! I do not think that it is a sign of good or sensible business when you are closed for a large part of the trading day, I have never worked 9-5 in my life. 6am to 10pm yes and all the hours I can, if my boss asked for more I gave it to him, if my wife asked for more I asked my boss for more hours. I looked forward to my weekends and holidays. I took pride in my work.

Pride in work that's something you don't see anymore.............
...............................
3496

TF1
24-07-2012, 18:24
Assuming with me is never easy and never right! I do not think that it is a sign of good or sensible business when you are closed for a large part of the trading day, I have never worked 9-5 in my life. 6am to 10pm yes and all the hours I can, if my boss asked for more I gave it to him, if my wife asked for more I asked my boss for more hours. I looked forward to my weekends and holidays. I took pride in my work.

Pride in work that's something you don't see anymore.............

Having worked for 8 years in the UK, then 24 years in Spain, I can quite honestly say that I encountered more laziness and clockwatchers in the UK than here. Many of my Spanish colleagues work 60+ hour weeks. Out of my many Spanish friends, not one takes a siesta. But many northern Europeans continuously slate Southern Countries for being "lazy", just for splitting shifts. Id like to see German farm workers slaving in 35C midday heat for 3 months of the year!

The only major failure the Spanish people have is political complacency. This has, ultimately, led to the economic mess which everyone will have to suffer for the next 6 years. Lets hope lessons are learned .....;-)

carpenter
24-07-2012, 18:50
I couldn't agree with you more regarding political complacency. I'm trying to start a business but due to lazy sods in the town hall and red tape it's proving a fruitless task. After 7 months I'm still waiting for answers.

But....... Wouldn't you agree that the Spanish system is in place to protect the worker and not the employer.
After that indefinite contract has been issued, the desire to work above and beyond, the desire to shine or even better themselves is non existent.
In other countries the employee let's say a barman, will approach a bar and ask for a job, he is given a trial shift and then taken on with a temporary contract. After a few weeks he wants more money, to better himself and want's the assistant managers job.

He works extra shifts, does the shifts others don't want to do, he gets himself a reputation as a good worker and is offered the assistant managers job.
After 2 years in this role he doesn't see the role of manager becoming available so he looks around at other bars in the area that are looking for a manager. He takes the better job with more responsibility and better pay, and now he sets his sights on an area managers position.

My experience in Spain is that once in a job with an indefinite contract, that's it, the employee is not prepared to risk his secure status to better him or herself. He doesn't wish to shine. Where is La Passion

Also Germans don't need to slave away in the midday sun because they had the clever idea of sitting down in an air conditioned room and designed a machine to do it for them. That and employing cheap Turkish workers to do it for them.

delderek
24-07-2012, 18:54
Having worked for 8 years in the UK, then 24 years in Spain, I can quite honestly say that I encountered more laziness and clockwatchers in the UK than here. Many of my Spanish colleagues work 60+ hour weeks. Out of my many Spanish friends, not one takes a siesta. But many northern Europeans continuously slate Southern Countries for being "lazy", just for splitting shifts. Id like to see German farm workers slaving in 35C midday heat for 3 months of the year!

The only major failure the Spanish people have is political complacency. This has, ultimately, led to the economic mess which everyone will have to suffer for the next 6 years. Lets hope lessons are learned .....;-)

Mmm. I would say they may be on site 60 hours a week, but actual work done would be about 20 hours, think you may have been away from the UK too long to see how people have to work now. But if you want to see real productivity, just have a look at the Polish workers, that have a really good reputation in the UK, and are now peoples preferred choice,,if you can get them.

carpenter
24-07-2012, 19:07
Mmm. I would say they may be on site 60 hours a week, but actual work done would be about 20 hours, think you may have been away from the UK too long to see how people have to work now. But if you want to see real productivity, just have a look at the Polish workers, that have a really good reputation in the UK, and are now peoples preferred choice,,if you can get them.

Sadly my experience of the Polish back in the UK wasn't a good one. When they were brought in to my industry around 2005 they worked like troopers (although many of them had lied about their backgrounds) but after two years their jobs became safe and they knew how to work the British system.

One house full of Polish workers (Great way to save money)
All other money being sent home to the family (British money leaving Britain)
Never paying car insurance or road tax or MOT on their Polish cars not fair IMHO if they are using British roads
Claiming for children on state benefit that, either they didn't even have, or didn't live in the country.
One worker stayed late and kept all his friends clock cards and clocked them out so they would get un-worked overtime money. (he got caught and they all got sacked)
But mainly their desire to do a good job disappeared after two years and we were left with a hell of a lot of dead wood.
Over time (and it took a very long time) the dead wood was gradually cleared.

This was my experience, this is not all Polish workers. Some of them have been 1st class craftsmen and excellent workers.

henry
24-07-2012, 21:24
well spain browwing cost went up again today from 7.5 yesterday and now 7.80. in another day or two it will hit 8 percent in browwing cost