View Full Version : Employment Clamp down on illegal workers in Tenerife
Have just found information about this new law that has just been passed to clamp down on anyone working illegally in Canaries. How is it going to affect those not paying social security and tax? Scary stuff!
27.07.2012 - Under the newly proposed Transparency Law, the top limit for fines, currently at 187,515, is to be abolished and more inspections are to be made. Higher fines across the board are to be introduced and social security and tax fraudsters will face up to ten years in jail
carpenter
29-07-2012, 23:32
And that also means those that employ illegal workers (not just businesses but everyday homeowners that want a bit of work done) will get fined as well. This is an even higher amount than the workers themselves if I'm not mistaken and if the illegal worker does not pay his/her fine then that too falls to the employer/homeowner to pay.
And that also means those that employ illegal workers (not just businesses but everyday homeowners that want a bit of work done) will get fined as well. This is an even higher amount than the workers themselves if I'm not mistaken and if the illegal worker does not pay his/her fine then that too falls to the employer/homeowner to pay.great news for the little guy,bad news for all the cowboy/flybynighters out there
golf birdie
30-07-2012, 12:21
great news for the little guy,bad news for all the cowboy/flybynighters out there
what about DVD street sellers:confused:
There are hundreds of British workers who have been on the island for many years and have been working without legal contracts or paying social security.Many are now discovering that they don't have any pension either here or in the UK.Some will have had minimum hour contracts which don't give them any rights to a decent pension and when they return to the UK they have few, if any ,rights to financial assistance.
I wonder if they have worked out the cost of sending all the lookie-lookie men home ??
They might change their mind about this if they do.
How would you know a builder ect is legal and paying all taxes when you employ them to do a job in your home?
carpenter
30-07-2012, 14:04
How would you know a builder ect is legal and paying all taxes when you employ them to do a job in your home?
Simply asked to see their paper work, they should be able to prove that heir SS is paid up to date and show their insurance.
You must also make sure that the worker is legally allowed to do the job that you are asking him to do.
The classification I am under covers me to do most things except build from plans like an extension or similar projects but I have people that take care of that side of things for me.. Legal people
This also means that an electrician cannot do translation work you get the picture. You pay tax/SS according to your specified job title.
deepdivejunkie
30-07-2012, 14:08
How would you know a builder ect is legal and paying all taxes when you employ them to do a job in your home?
Ask to se all his papers.. Social Security, Hacienda, NIF, Insurance etc before you enter into any contract to have work done.
John Beck
30-07-2012, 14:56
Am I to believe that no one here has paid someone cash in hand for any work done.
Or been paid cash in hand.
Most bars and restaurants rely on cheap unregistered labour. Without it they would close.
Many have already closed because of the lack of tourists.
If to many close the tourist will go somewhere else with some life and not a run-down area with boarded buildings.
To me it would make more sense to clamp down on the ladies of the night and pickpockets that are rife in Tenerife. Especially around Las Americas every night.
Only my opinion and not meant to offend anyone!:wink:
golf birdie
30-07-2012, 15:04
illegal workers or illegal downloads, if you agree with one you can't really disagree with the other, its all comes down to saving money.
what about DVD street sellers:confused:criminals should be locked up.lowlife
carpenter
30-07-2012, 16:14
illegal workers or illegal downloads, if you agree with one you can't really disagree with the other, its all comes down to saving money.
There is a massive margin between the two.
The DVD sellers operate without licence selling copyrighted material and they pay no social or tax and are usually illegal immigrants. They don't pretend that they are legal and if a DVD doesn't work it won't collapse and break your leg!
Then you have cowboys going into other peoples home, doing a job and stealing those jobs from the honest family tradesman that pays his/her social each month.
Where is the comparison, it's not black or white there are many different shades in between
golf birdie
30-07-2012, 16:23
There is a massive margin between the two.
The DVD sellers operate without licence selling copyrighted material and they pay no social or tax and are usually illegal immigrants. They don't pretend that they are legal and if a DVD doesn't work it won't collapse and break your leg!
Then you have cowboys going into other peoples home, doing a job and stealing those jobs from the honest family tradesman that pays his/her social each month.
Where is the comparison, it's not black or white there are many different shades in between
I said if you agree with one you can't disagree with the other. I just can't understand how some think its OK to steal other peoples work and get upset when someone steals theirs:confused:Just because its overpriced does not make it OK in my book.
carpenter
30-07-2012, 16:28
I said if you agree with one you can't disagree with the other. I just can't understand how some think its OK to steal other people work and get upset when someone steals theirs:confused:Just because its overpriced does not make it OK in my book.
Try to understand. It's really not too difficult. Why don't you start your own thread because this is OT
Where is the comparison, it's not black or white there are many different shades in between
Hmm, it's either legal or it's not. A defective DVD might not damage anytthing but it puts the legally operating DVD rental / sales shop out of business. As I've said in another posts, non-profit downloading of copyright material aint illegal in Spain. The looky-looky man is illegal whatever way you looky-looky at him!
Harder when it comes to mr one man band scraping up a living by doing odd jobs on the nod. As long as you know what you're getting when you hire him it's your lookout. Cowboys are another thing altogether, pretending to be something theyre not - tha's bad.
As for bars/vafes/restaurants, if you employ someone then all social and taxes should be being paid. Yeah, it's expensive, but if everyone did it then all bars and restautants and cafes and whatever else would cost the same. Problem is, so many places do it illegally that it's made a two-level system where the places that do it properly are pricier than the places that don't.
That's unfair, and it's why Spain is so screwed as well.
The places that are doing it properly are going out of business cos they can't afford the taxes and can't compete agains the places doing stuff illegaly. The government is having to pay the dole for all those people that lost their jobs and had proper contracts so can claim full social. But problem is, the only places left open are the ones doing it illegaly and of course don't pay any money to the government, so there's no money coming in to pay all the people that lost their jobs cos of the illegal places put their employers out of business..... nast,y, huh?
I reckon it's a good thing they're clamping down, but it's too late. Spain is bust already.
golf birdie
30-07-2012, 16:38
Try to understand. It's really not too difficult. Why don't you start your own thread because this is OT
but I agree 100% with clamping down on illegal workers, full stop. I also like to think everyone would agree its not nice to have your work stolen or copied without payment. Thats where I stand.
Most bars and restaurants rely on cheap unregistered labour.
Most - that's why it's so bad. Doesn't justify it.
Without it they would close.
Then they should never have opened. If a business can't run a profit legally, then it shouldn't run at all.
Many have already closed because of the lack of tourists.
And many have already closed cos they can't compete with the shysters operating illegally with unregistered labour. See my last post.
- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -
but I agree 100% with clamping down on illegal workers, full stop. I also like to think everyone would agree its not nice to have your work stolen or copied without payment. Thats where I stand.
Two different things, in Spain at least. Illegal workers are by definition illegal.
Downloading copyright stuff is not illegal in Spain as long as yotu don't profit from it. That doesn't mean I think it's right, that's another topic. It's just not illegal.
carpenter
30-07-2012, 16:43
Hmm, it's either legal or it's not. A defective DVD might not damage anytthing but it puts the legally operating DVD rental / sales shop out of business. As I've said in another posts, non-profit downloading of copyright material aint illegal in Spain. The looky-looky man is illegal whatever way you looky-looky at him!
Harder when it comes to mr one man band scraping up a living by doing odd jobs on the nod. As long as you know what you're getting when you hire him it's your lookout. Cowboys are another thing altogether, pretending to be something theyre not - tha's bad.
As for bars/vafes/restaurants, if you employ someone then all social and taxes should be being paid. Yeah, it's expensive, but if everyone did it then all bars and restautants and cafes and whatever else would cost the same. Problem is, so many places do it illegally that it's made a two-level system where the places that do it properly are pricier than the places that don't.
That's unfair, and it's why Spain is so screwed as well.
The places that are doing it properly are going out of business cos they can't afford the taxes and can't compete agains the places doing stuff illegaly. The government is having to pay the dole for all those people that lost their jobs and had proper contracts so can claim full social. But problem is, the only places left open are the ones doing it illegaly and of course don't pay any money to the government, so there's no money coming in to pay all the people that lost their jobs cos of the illegal places put their employers out of business..... nast,y, huh?
I reckon it's a good thing they're clamping down, but it's too late. Spain is bust already.
You know what you are getting with looky lookies, but you don't know what you are getting with unregistered, non tax paying, non social paying, uninsured workers. There is a biiiiiiiiiig difference. The pirate DVD/music thread is somewhere else :whistle:
You know what you are getting with looky lookies, but you don't know what you are getting with unregistered, non tax paying, non social paying, uninsured workers. There is a biiiiiiiiiig difference. The pirate DVD/music thread is somewhere else :whistle:
Then we agree.
Mr. looky-looky sells you a pair of fake sunglasses that you know don't block UV and will fall apart in a month and a bootleg DVD of the latest blockbuster that you know has timecodes on it and probably won't work after it's been stored for a while, you know what you're getting, you know it's illegal, you buy them anyway.
As I said regarding mr. one man band, "as long as you know what you're getting... it's your lookout". You know it's illegal, , you know what you're getting, you hire him anyway.
But for the rest, we disagree.
You go into a bar/restaurant/cafe/shop/garage/whatever and you don't know if they're all on contract, insured, social security paid up etc. etc. You may know what you're getting but you don't know if you're supporting something illehgal. That choice was made for you by the business owner and you've been had. Bad.
carpenter
30-07-2012, 17:06
Then we agree.
Mr. looky-looky sells you a pair of fake sunglasses that you know don't block UV and will fall apart in a month and a bootleg DVD of the latest blockbuster that you know has timecodes on it and probably won't work after it's been stored for a while, you know what you're getting, you know it's illegal, you buy them anyway.
As I said regarding mr. one man band, "as long as you know what you're getting... it's your lookout". You know it's illegal, , you know what you're getting, you hire him anyway.
But for the rest, we disagree.
You go into a bar/restaurant/cafe/shop/garage/whatever and you don't know if they're all on contract, insured, social security paid up etc. etc. You may know what you're getting but you don't know if you're supporting something illehgal. That choice was made for you by the business owner and you've been had. Bad.
In this situation the checks are best left to the Policia otherwise you'll live your life like a lefty that only eats "sourced meat" you really don't know what's going on behind the scenes like that lefty may get told the beef is from the farm round the corner but in reality the beef has come from Botswana.
You can only take their word for it. My argument is with the odd job men, the builders, furniture movers all those people that work all day/week long and don't pay tax or social. It's those people we can do something about. Ask to see their papers.
Every self employed person should have them with them at all times, if they haven't..... show them the way out.
In this situation the checks (snip) if they haven't..... show them the way out.
Yup, I agree.
From the viewpoint you have stated on here, carpenter, I would think about employing a solicitor.
There is a Tony Tuft on Facebook Tenerife Wanted looking for a mechanic, and he said that he wouldn't pay the legal price and wanted a cheap alternative.
After a few suggestions about mechanics, he was very proud that he had found a mechanic, new to the island, employed by someone else, who would do a €300 job for €60 cash in hand.
He was very happy and told anyone that didn't like it, to get a life.
Given your standpoint about illegal workers, this man, claiming to be you, is the complete opposite.
carpenter
30-07-2012, 19:30
From the viewpoint you have stated on here, carpenter, I would think about employing a solicitor.
There is a Tony Tuft on Facebook Tenerife Wanted looking for a mechanic, and he said that he wouldn't pay the legal price and wanted a cheap alternative.
After a few suggestions about mechanics, he was very proud that he had found a mechanic, new to the island, employed by someone else, who would do a €300 job for €60 cash in hand.
He was very happy and told anyone that didn't like it, to get a life.
Given your standpoint about illegal workers, this man, claiming to be you, is the complete opposite.
Oh your a joy aren't you, Yes that was similar to my post but seeing as you can't even spell my name correctly the rest of the info is questionable so I don't think a solicitor is necessary do you. That post was also deleted a short time after it appeared so you really are something else aren't you?
I have no problem paying someone to do a job when I know that it's cash in hand just as long as everyone is on the same page. I was quoted €300 for 6 hours work which I am not prepared to pay. So a mechanic who is employed legally on the island saw I was struggling with a baby on the way and offered to do it cheaply. Maybe he is going to pay tax maybe he isn't. But his social is paid.
There are other idiots on Floggit offering ITV services when they aren't even in the motor trade and don't even meet the 26 years old age restriction imposed by most insurance companies.
So you said my name (nearly) what's yours? John Smith? or something even more bitter?
As I also said, so much work gets stolen from me by illegal workers I have to balance the scales by paying for "Tax free" work myself.
I understand your frustrations with the comments made against you Carpenter, but aren't you just perpetuating the problem? I am a small business here in the UK and run my business 100% legal competing against others who don't and it is a struggle at times. The Government here say they are going to get a grip of the problem and with all the European financial problems most countries will be doing similar. The more that they can get illegal operations closed down or playing by the same rules the better it will be for all of us, here or there in Tenerife.
delderek
30-07-2012, 19:57
OK lets all be honest, if we can get a job done cheap, cash in hand, most of us will take up the offer. But for the guys that do it, they are surely storing up a nightmare. No social or pensions in the UK, and nothing in Spain. Doesn't seem a problem in your thirties or maybe forties, get up into the mid fifties range, and how many are gonna think, blimey what's going to happen in the next ten years, no money coming in anywhere. Too late, you've blown it.
carpenter
30-07-2012, 19:58
I understand your frustrations with the comments made against you Carpenter, but aren't you just perpetuating the problem? I am a small business here in the UK and run my business 100% legal competing against others who don't and it is a struggle at times. The Government here say they are going to get a grip of the problem and with all the European financial problems most countries will be doing similar. The more that they can get illegal operations closed down or playing by the same rules the better it will be for all of us, here or there in Tenerife.
When you have no work coming in but you see "no social Simon" loading his van up with his tools to do a days work it hurts. Especially when my tools were stolen a few weeks back so I'm even more on my ****.
It's not the same as the UK, in the UK you pay your NI stamps and tax on what you earn. You don't have this social payment of a few hundred Euros a month regardless of work volume.
To top the fact that my van is in desperate need of repair my wife is 9 and a half months pregnant and the hospital is 70KM away. What would you do in my situation?
tracy hampshire
30-07-2012, 20:37
hands up everyone, who has never done a job cash in hand or had a job done cash in hand, donīt agree with not paying your contributions but wether itīs a couple of jobs on the side or you do it for a living , it still boils down to the same thing, be it a telephone engineer putting extensions in for his mate or a pensioner doing a bit of gardening to boost his pension, it has always happened & always will , the only loser in the end is the guy at age of 65 who has no pension.
When you have no work coming in but you see "no social Simon" loading his van up with his tools to do a days work it hurts. Especially when my tools were stolen a few weeks back so I'm even more on my ****.
It's not the same as the UK, in the UK you pay your NI stamps and tax on what you earn. You don't have this social payment of a few hundred Euros a month regardless of work volume.
To top the fact that my van is in desperate need of repair my wife is 9 and a half months pregnant and the hospital is 70KM away. What would you do in my situation?
Whatever you have to do to survive,just don't do it for so long that you end up without a pension.Message me if you need a lift anywhere,there are plenty of people around with cars,money and little to do who would be delighted to offer a helping hand in a crisis.Also got loads of baby stuff if you are short of anything.If not just wishing you lots of luck and really hope that things work out for you soon.It isn't easy making a living here and at the moment it's as hard as it's ever been but it WILL get better.
carpenter
30-07-2012, 21:48
Whatever you have to do to survive,just don't do it for so long that you end up without a pension.Message me if you need a lift anywhere,there are plenty of people around with cars,money and little to do who would be delighted to offer a helping hand in a crisis.Also got loads of baby stuff if you are short of anything.If not just wishing you lots of luck and really hope that things work out for you soon.It isn't easy making a living here and at the moment it's as hard as it's ever been but it WILL get better.
Very very kind offer thank you, I must stress though that I do pay my social but I don't expect Spain economy to honor my contributions. How long i can carry on paying my social is another thing.
We are surrounded by good friends and have a caring family so we are rich in other ways.
If Tenerife doesn't sort itself out soon then it's time for pastures new I'm afraid
golf birdie
31-07-2012, 16:57
OK lets all be honest, if we can get a job done cheap, cash in hand, most of us will take up the offer. But for the guys that do it, they are surely storing up a nightmare. No social or pensions in the UK, and nothing in Spain. Doesn't seem a problem in your thirties or maybe forties, get up into the mid fifties range, and how many are gonna think, blimey what's going to happen in the next ten years, no money coming in anywhere. Too late, you've blown it.
don't worry too much about them as most are claiming in the UK and have their premiums paid that way. They fly to and from every few weeks to check in with the doctor or benefit office.
welshman
01-08-2012, 09:01
Cash in hand is part of life and has been for thousands of years, Duck Pond houses, improvements on second homes. flipping to save tax every walk of life finds some way of not paying tax or getting something for nothing. You will catch some but you cannot police it all. If some one said I will knock 20% vat off for cash what would you do!!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.4 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.