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seppe
06-08-2012, 13:15
Hi apartment owners,

On www.c-euro.org you can download a pdf file in english about the law on horizontal division.
The author is Per Svensson.
The document is full of goodies, but to me it looks like it is not sufficiantly backed up by official documents.
It costs 80 euro to become a member.
I appreciate your comment.

seppe

Leam_Lin
06-08-2012, 14:16
Hi apartment owners,

On www.c-euro.org you can download a pdf file in english about the law on horizontal division.
The author is Per Svensson.
The document is full of goodies, but to me it looks like it is not sufficiantly backed up by official documents.
It costs 80 euro to become a member.


Why would you pay 80 euro when you can find most things on Tenerife Forum.

junglejim
06-08-2012, 18:40
Hi apartment owners,

On www.c-euro.org you can download a pdf file in english about the law on horizontal division.
The author is Per Svensson.
The document is full of goodies, but to me it looks like it is not sufficiantly backed up by official documents.
It costs 80 euro to become a member.
I appreciate your comment.

seppe

Here you go , fill yer boots English or Spanish !
http://www.hestria.es/notice.html

slodgedad
07-08-2012, 00:05
I have stickied this as it may be of interest to many members

seppe
17-08-2012, 17:03
Hi,

The text in the Hor.Div. Act about the 5% reserve is not very clear to me.
Is it OK to set aside this amount from debts for it?
What can happen if a community ignores this article of the law?

Thanks

René
28-06-2013, 15:14
Modifications of the Horizontal Property law were published in the BOE yesterday.

The most important change is that the purchaser will be responsible for the debt from the previous owners of the current financial year when the transfer of ownership took place and 3 previous natural years (instead of 1 year).

A major improvement !

The English translation of the modifications will be available on our website (hopefully) next week.

sundownersvince
29-06-2013, 00:22
Very interesting this horizontal property law. On my complex everybody pays the same amount of community regardless of how big their apartment is. Of course the President owns one of the largest ones so not in his interest to make it fair. If the subject is brought up at a community meeting its just brushed over with lame excuses.

Tdm
29-06-2013, 10:34
The c-euro.org website closed down some time ago, but I wasn't aware the Horizontal Law had been revised until Rene mentioned it in his latest post. Be interesting to see what all the changes are. Only wish something more could be done about owners who never pay the Community Fees on properties they let out yet receive Income for.

René
30-06-2013, 13:36
The c-euro.org website closed down some time ago, but I wasn't aware the Horizontal Law had been revised until Rene mentioned it in his latest post. Be interesting to see what all the changes are. Only wish something more could be done about owners who never pay the Community Fees on properties they let out yet receive Income for.
The amendments are in force since the day of my latest post. The impact will be huge as the community is now (finally) well protected against debtors.


Very interesting this horizontal property law. On my complex everybody pays the same amount of community regardless of how big their apartment is. Of course the President owns one of the largest ones so not in his interest to make it fair. If the subject is brought up at a community meeting its just brushed over with lame excuses.
Maybe you should pass by the administration to ask why it is not divided according to the percentages as it is maybe unanimously agreed in a previous meeting.

doreen
30-06-2013, 14:32
Modifications of the Horizontal Property law were published in the BOE yesterday.

The most important change is that the purchaser will be responsible for the debt from the previous owners of the current financial year when the transfer of ownership took place and 3 previous natural years (instead of 1 year).




The amendments are in force since the day of my latest post. The impact will be huge as the community is now (finally) well protected against debtors.

I'm not so clear Rene on how this is an improvement ... surely any purchaser cannot sign at the Notary without a certificate that the community fees are up to date ???

René
30-06-2013, 14:54
I'm not so clear Rene on how this is an improvement ... surely any purchaser cannot sign at the Notary without a certificate that the community fees are up to date ???

In the horizontal property law is mentioned:

the transferor shall have to declare to be up to date with the payment of the general expenses of the community of proprietors or to express that what is owed. The transferor shall provide at that moment a document that certifies the state of the debt with the community which shall correspond to the said statement. Without such, the execution of the title deed shall not be authorized unless the purchaser should expressly waive such requirement

This (standard text in the title deed) happens quite a lot and the community could only claim the debt of the year when the transaction took place and 1 previous year from the buyer. Now this is the current year and 3 previous years.

Maybe even more important (at this moment) are the houses taken over by the Banks. Previously the bank paid the current year and 1 previous year and that was it. Now they have to pay 2 extra years.

mike in chayofa
30-06-2013, 15:58
I'm not so clear Rene on how this is an improvement ... surely any purchaser cannot sign at the Notary without a certificate that the community fees are up to date ???

Exactly. When I was an estate agent, properties were always sold 'free of debt'. If there were debts ... community, IBI etc the vendor was notified and the amount of the debt was taken off the payment due to the vendor.

The only time(as far as I can see) that this could benefit a community is if a property with a mortgage is repossed by the lender

René
02-07-2013, 13:15
I think that approximately 15 percent of all Properties change hand without a debt certificate. These are almost always the houses with a high debt. Previously the community could only claim the current year when the transaction took place and 1previous year from the new owner. This is now changed to 3 years.

It is not only the bank that paid the current year and 1 previous year, but also:

When a company owns a property and goes bankrupt. Previously all money (except the current and 1 previous year) could be written off.
When a property is inherited you could only claim the current and 1 previous year from the new owner.
When a company gives the property to another company to, for example, liquidate a debt.
Almost all lawyers are all aware of this law. If they arrange the sale of a property with a debt quite a few are only interested in the current and previous year.
There are also real estate agents that care less than you did.

I had to deal with all of above examples and I could come up with more. As this is not your daily work you probably do not understand the impact, but I can assure you that this is a very important change in the law. This is something that I wanted to be changed for the last 10 years.

René
12-07-2013, 10:21
The actualized horizontal property law in Spanish and the English translation are now published on our website. The articles 8, 11 and 12 are repealed. The articles 2, 3, 9, 10, 17 and the additional provision are modified.

junglejim
12-07-2013, 10:46
Thanks for the update Rene -Your site shows up a virus when clicked on !
I'm interested in your view on Article 17 where we are installing a WIFI system on our site at considerable cost to the community - several people have objected to paying for this and any subsequent charges as they do not wish to use it or have their own ADSL .Where do they stand under this section of the Law ?
Quote
Article 17
The resolutions of the Board of proprietors shall be subject to the following
rules:
1. The installation of common infrastructures providing access to telecommunication services regulated in Royal Decree-Law 1/ 1998, of 27th of February, on common infrastructures in buildings for access to telecommunication services, or the adaptation of existing ones, as well as the installation of systems, whether comm on or private for use of renewable energies, or of the infrastructure needed to get access to new collective energy supplies, may be agreed, at the request of any proprietor, by a third of the members of the community that also represent a third of the participation quota.
The community cannot charge the costs of the installation or adaptation of the said communal infrastructures, neither the costs derived from its upkeep and maintenance, to those proprietors who did not explicitly vote in favour at the general meeting. However, should they subsequently request access to telecommunication services or energy supply systems and this request requires
the use of the new infrastructures or the realized adaptation of the existing ones; they may be authorized providing that they pay up the amount that would be their share, duly updated with the application of the legal interest.

René
12-07-2013, 17:09
Thanks for the warning John. The virus has been removed.

You already answered your own question about the WIFI system correctly. The expenses should only be divided amongst the owners who voted in favour at the meeting.

It is important do deal with this correctly when you do not agree that they divide these expenses amongst all owners.

You need to oppose the minutes (according to article 18). Don´t stop paying your community fee (or a part of your community fee) as the total outstanding fee can be demanded through the courts. A debtor will not be able to get his debt reduced in the monitory procedure because the correct or incorrect division of the wifi expenses will not be discussed in such a procedure.

In the attachment you will find the complete answer.
4936

junglejim
12-07-2013, 17:50
Thanks for prompt reply Rene and link to adjudication , just what I'm looking for to support my argument with my administrator and President !

kurtfive
12-07-2013, 20:09
René could you advise me on this , on my complex the roof tiles are defective ,some worse than others ,mine is not that bad but have been told the community what to fix all the roofs and charge everyone x amount a month on top of normal fees until the cost is paid .can they do this on my my villa as i can get the work done much cheaper , they also want to paint my villa which i do myself . the villas are in blocks of 4

thanks

René
14-07-2013, 12:36
Hello Kurtfive,

In article 396 (see page 18 and 19 from the (translated) horizontal property law on our website) is mentioned what should be seen as common elements. Both, the repair and the painting, should therefore be done and paid for by the community.
The agreement to continue to pay until the cost is paid is unusual. Try to get a fixed quotation so that everybody knows exactly how much they have to pay.

kurtfive
14-07-2013, 19:59
thanks René
could not quite understand article 396 but even though mine is a villa in a block of 4 (terrace) ,they class the roof and painting of my walls as common elements ?.

René
15-07-2013, 14:15
The roof and the façades are common elements. Therefore the maintenance (repairs or painting) should be paid for by the community.

mazoka
01-09-2013, 10:58
Rene is it possible to answer this question please.

I purchased an apartment on a residential complex 1 year ago. The corridor lighting outside my apartment does not come on in the evening. I have reported the situation a number of times to the president and vice-president, I've also sent an email concerning the matter to the administrator requesting him to present my request for the lights to be repaired to our committee who hold a monthly meeting...it was apparently presented to the committee but no mention was made in the minutes of the meeting.

Each time I have spoken to the president or vice president about the matter I have been fobbed off with one excuse or another such as, "oh those lights have not worked for years," or "the electrical cable for those lights was damaged a few years ago during maintenance work," or "there are more important matters for community money to be spent on."

If I send a letter to the committee outlining my intention to withhold part of my community fee until the lights are fixed, do I have a legal right for the lights to be repaired, if so, would the repair be seen as a necessary safety requirement, or would I be in breach of community law or rules?

René
01-09-2013, 15:37
Hi Mozako,

If they are unwilling to repair the lightning I would request the administrator to include the repair of the corridor lighting outside your apartment on the agenda of the next general meeting. A special document for this can be found here: http://www.hestria.es/notice.html

In the meeting all owners can decide of this should be repaired or not. Keep in mind that if this is not repaired and an accident happens, the insurance could say that it is lack of maintenance and therefore not cover the expenses.

I would also advise you to not withhold any community fee as this will give you only problems in the long run. The community will start court proceedings against you, your arguments will not stand in court, the court expenses must be paid for by you and you have no right to vote and in the meetings. As most communities have a late payment surcharge you will probably also get a surcharge for not paying.

mazoka
22-12-2013, 16:08
Rene,

Could you comment please on a situation that is happening on the complex where I own a property.

At the last AGM, February 2012, a proposal was put forward to extend one of the three lift shafts to the top floor which is the 5th floor. The lifts at present only go to the 4th floor, given the available space it would only be possible to extend one lift shaft.

The majority of the comunity members voted against the extension being implemented. They said if the 8 owners on the 5th floor want the extension then they can pay for it themselves. I believe that in section 10 of Horizontal Law it says that the community are obliged to provide a facility to people over the age of 70 years, along with people who have a mobility problem some form of electronical/mechanical apparatus (possible a lift) so as to allow these people access to other parts of the complex.

I also believe that section 10 of Horizontal Law has been ameded in June 2013, where it previously stated "obliged" it now says it is "mandatory" concerning this provision.

Is is possible that the vote taken at the AGM meeting in 2012 was in some way illegal. If so, can it be legally challenge given that it is still within the 12 month timescale?

René
24-12-2013, 17:31
Hi Mozako,

Was the last meeting in February 2012 or in 2013? By law you must have a General Ordinary Meeting once a year (article 16.1 HPL).

Regarding the lift I must say that unfortunately this is not a question that can be answered without knowing all the details.

I wanted to attach a document about this issue that explains quite well how it works, but unfortunately the file is too large. If you send me your e-mail address by private message I will send it to you directly (info@hestria.es).