Help needed finding a person we sold out car to, to change the ownership

[samnickgodber]

Hi all,
Looking for info on a guy called Kirk,
He used to live i believe in the Golf del Sur/Amarilla Golf area,
He is some sort of builder and drove around in a White Ford Ranger pickup truck with the words Ranger 4X4 in black written across the bottom of the cab,
We sold this vehicle to a garage who then sold it onto him, but just found out that neither the garage or Kirk got the vehicle taken out of my hubby´s name,
I believe he has now moved back to the UK taking the truck with him,
We have informed the UK police that this vehicle is in the UK in my husbands name even though we don´t own the vehicle anymore, and they have given me a crime number so if anything comes up with the vehicle from now on it won´t fall back to us,
We don´t want the vehicle back we just want to get in touch with the guy to find out if it´s true he has moved back to the UK and for him to get it changed out of my hubbys name,
Please if anyone has any info or phone number or address for him please pm it to me,

Thanks xxx

[dede]

Well I think he will hit problems himself when he comes to tax and insure it, he will need a v5 in his own name so it will be illegal to take it on the road, you are wise to report it.

[samnickgodber]

Well I think he will hit problems himself when he comes to tax and insure it, he will need a v5 in his own name so it will be illegal to take it on the road, you are wise to report it.

This is the thought that we had, which is why i called the police station for the area we believe he has gone back to, they are aware of it now, and know that he will be driving around in it illegally, they have given me a crime ref number, which i will need to quote if there are any come backs to us,,,, it´s just this end we need to sort out,,,,

Has anyone ever heard of doing a notification at traffico?
I believe this is stating that we sold the car to him and he has not taken it out of our name,
The said garage has said they can do one of these but as they are obviously dodgy by not changing the name in the first place i am unsure if to trust them to do this xxx

[carpenter]

If his bank account was embargoed then he may have not wanted the truck put in his name as it becomes an asset.
As far as taxing and MOT'ing the car it a funny area.
You didn't used to have to MOT the car unless it had been in the country for 3 years (this is going back a bit) and you don't need to tax it as it's on Spanish plates (or rather you can get away without paying it). The only thing he needs is insurance.

If he wanted to register it as a English car, then he would have to sort the paperwork out but as it stands he'll probably just keep driving it around until he's forced into doing something legal with it.

It's good that you reported him and it shouldn't be long before he's stopped because these number plate recognition cameras are very good

This is why so many Polish are driving around on UK roads without paying tax or without having an MOT and not caring about speeding tickets.

Similar thing has happened to us except the car is still here, we tried the Guardia in Granadilla but they told us to go to traffico in Santa Cruz, there is a form to fill in that will take it out of your name. Such a pain having to go up there though

[dipper]

two points. First is that if he is in the UK surely he would not be stupid enough to not tax it in which case the DVLA will give the driver details on payment of a small fee.
Second thing is that you could simply report it as stolen to the UK police. They would then log it on the automatic vehicle recognition system and stop the vehicle when it showed up.
Third make a report to DVLA that you no longer own the vehicle otherwise they will come after you for any parking fines

[carpenter]

two points. First is that if he is in the UK surely he would not be stupid enough to not tax it in which case the DVLA will give the driver details on payment of a small fee.
Second thing is that you could simply report it as stolen to the UK police. They would then log it on the automatic vehicle recognition system and stop the vehicle when it showed up.
Third make a report to DVLA that you no longer own the vehicle otherwise they will come after you for any parking fines

Dipper, it's a Spanish vehicle, it's not on the DVLA's database so they have no knowledge of it's whereabouts or ownership and cannot demand road tax from a non UK registered vehicle! It's HMRC

It's not stolen so you can't report it stolen! They have already said they don't want it back they just want the name changed or at least taken out of their name!
Third point isn't really worth covering again. It's Trafico that need informing :)

I have already said about the Number plate recognition camera but I don't think the vehicle or owner is really breaking any UK laws as such.

[samnickgodber]

I´m not sure if i could report it as stolen now as i have informed the UK police that we sold it to a garage who then sold it to him but no-one never took it out my hubby´s name,
Regarding the DVLA i asked the policewoman about informing them and she said there is no need as i have informed the police and have a crime number to cover our backs,,,

If the car got pulled and impounded i am asuming that he would not be able to get it back?
If this is the case do you think the police would inform us for us to collect it as it is still legally in my hubby´s name (at the moment) xxx

[carpenter]

I´m not sure if i could report it as stolen now as i have informed the UK police that we sold it to a garage who then sold it to him but no-one never took it out my hubby´s name,
Regarding the DVLA i asked the policewoman about informing them and she said there is no need as i have informed the police and have a crime number to cover our backs,,,

If the car got pulled and impounded i am asuming that he would not be able to get it back?
If this is the case do you think the police would inform us for us to collect it as it is still legally in my hubby´s name (at the moment) xxx

have you told traffico? Is it on Spanish plates?

[samnickgodber]

have you told traffico? Is it on Spanish plates?
Yes as far as i am aware it must still be on Spanish plates or at leaset it was when we sold it,,,,
Not had chance to inform them yet as we only found this info out yesterday afternoon,

Hubby has just said that he would not go to through the hassle of fetching it back if they informed us that we could,
We just want to sort this crap out as there is Taxes owing on it from when we sold it to him, he has never paid any taxes either,,,
This is all down to the garage that sold it to him for not doing buisness properly, apparently when he brought it off them they just gave him all the paperwork including my hubby´s copy of NIE and passport (which i told the police this too),
All we have of proof that we sold it to the garage is a poxy A4 piece of paper dated stating that we sold the car to .......... (the guy who owns the garage) and a price, no NIE or garage name and no stamp Nada nothing,,,, really wish i was more savvy a few yrs ago to the Tenerife crooks gggrrrrr

[carpenter]

You have to go to trafico, maybe if you contact a gestor or some other legal adviser maybe they could suggest denouncing the garage.
But get to trafico, maybe pay any outstanding tax bills and put this to bed

[samnickgodber]

Yep think thats what were gonna end up having to do, we are off to the garage tomorrow to see them to see if they are willing to sort this out at no expense to us and pay outstanding tax bill´s, if not then we will be persuing this against them and just have to stump up several hundred euro´s as traffico said there is taxes owing from 2010 which is when we sold it gggrrrrr

[dipper]

You have to go to trafico, maybe if you contact a gestor or some other legal adviser maybe they could suggest denouncing the garage.
But get to trafico, maybe pay any outstanding tax bills and put this to bed

And that would achieve what?And why should he pay the outstanding taxes? It's not his fault the garage are slap happy.

It is quite possible the vehicle has been has registered with DVLA in which case the details are available for a fee.At least it's worth an enquiry.

Would he risk being pulled for a traffic offence in the UK without updating the documentation?

As far as I can see it's best to cover all bases even if they are only off chances.

[samnickgodber]

And that would achieve what?And why should he pay the outstanding taxes? It's not his fault the garage are slap happy.

It is quite possible the vehicle has been has registered with DVLA in which case the details are available for a fee.At least it's worth an enquiry.

Would he risk being pulled for a traffic offence in the UK without updating the documentation?

As far as I can see it's best to cover all bases even if they are only off chances.

As has been said he CANNOT change the vehicle in the UK as the truck is still in my hubbys name,
I asked the police today if i should inform the DVLA and she said theres no need as they all work off the same database,
I agree why should we have to pay for outstanding taxes when its the garages fault, which is why we are going to see them tomorrow to give them the opprotunity to sort this mess out and pay the taxes at no cost to us,
They will be made aware that if they don´t we will take matters further xxx

[warbey]

If the Previous Owner has a receipt from the Garage it was sold to, I fail to see what further Taxes have to do with Him.

Keep the receipt very safe as it is Your get=out. What subsequently happens is irrevalent as it was sold before that.

I once informed the D.V..L.A. of selling a Car. The Police visited a couple of months later and I was able to prove it.
It had been involved in a Fatality along a Motorway... ALWAYS make sure of the Paperwork, it saves a lot.. That was My Lesson..

[samnickgodber]

The reciept we have for the sale was done on a pc with the date on it, the owner of the garages name and details of the truck,no NIE number, no stamp and no garage name however it is signed by the garage owner and my hubby xx

[warbey]

Being a bit of a suspicious Person, I would suggest the Transaction didnt go via the Garage Books........(Taxes etc).

You know the Garage, so You are still in the clear.. Not so sure about the Garage owner though.

[samnickgodber]

Any ideas how or what we should say to them tomorrow? xxx

[warbey]

I would be inclined to ask if They knew why the Vehicle sold to Them wasnt transferred when They or the subsequent Purchaser bought it.?

You are asking for Their advice or Help.

I would be very careful to FORGET to remind Them You have a Receipt.


I wouls also get a couple of copies of the Receipt, so I could keep the Original an a SAFE Place.

Also make sure You didnt have to notify Somewhere when You sold it.

I think a couple of Members would know more about that.

Good Luck.

[samnickgodber]

Just to clarify a little,
We brought the truck from new and sold it to the garage, when we did this the owner of the garage said he would take it out of hubbys name when he sell´s it on which i believe is standard for garages to do,
He then sold it to this Kirk guy and just gave Kirk all the paperwork to get the name change done, which he has never done,
So as for as we are concerned the garage is at fault as they should have got the name change done when they sold it to Kirk not just handed over paperwork fo him to do x

[carpenter]

Definitely ask for their complaints book tomorrow "Libro de Reclamaciones" that should shake some sense into them.

[timmylish]

Sam. I don,t see why you should involve yourself in any further time, trouble and expense. Go to the garage, as suggested, tell them the situation in that the police are fully aware of all of the facts and that THEY should sort the problem out before it becomes a real problem. Get the Libro and fill it out. After that walk away and try to forget about it, for once and for all time.
Best of luck.

[samnickgodber]

Thanks guy´s, Ihad a rather restless night lastnight for stress and worry over the taxes that this guy has left owing,
Going to see them this morning to tell rhem they sort it out, it´s been reported to the UK police and we will be informing the Spanish police and WE are not paying for anything, and then the libro de reclamacions will be asked for and a visit to the consorcio too, xxx

[casabonny]

Just to clarify a little,
We brought the truck from new and sold it to the garage, when we did this the owner of the garage said he would take it out of hubbys name when he sell´s it on which i believe is standard for garages to do,
He then sold it to this Kirk guy and just gave Kirk all the paperwork to get the name change done, which he has never done,
So as for as we are concerned the garage is at fault as they should have got the name change done when they sold it to Kirk not just handed over paperwork fo him to do x

This appears to be normal practice for some garages as it is a way of them saving money and not having to give any warranty on the vehicle as they are not the owner. Reputable and fully legal garages , such as ours Motorworld , would normally change the vehicle into thier name in order to sell on , thereby avoiding this type of situation and also safeguarding themselves as any pending embargoes would not be able to be applied to the vehicle and they can then be sure that they are selling cars completely debt free.
There are not many garages that do this though and this is not the first time and I am sure wont be the last time we hear of such stories.Good luck anyway

[Balcony]

Out of interest I looked up my guide and tho it's a couple of years old, it indicates that when you sell a car in Spain you must obtain and complete a 'transfer of ownership' (notificasion de transferencia de vehiculos, usually called a transferencia) form, available from the provincial traffic department (trafico). One copy is given to the buyer and the other sent to trafico. When you sell a car in Spain there is a transfer tax to pay also (by the buyer) of 4% of the fiscal value, though it is the responsibiloity of the seller to pay (hand over) the tax! The tax is declared on form 620 (compra-venta de vehiculos usados entre particulares) obtainable from a tobacconist's or tax office.

The seller must complete, sign and date the reverse of the car's registration document under the section transferido and take it directly to the local trafico with any other relevant papers and a form from the local town hall on which you've de-registered your ownership (for municipal tax reasons).

Hope this still reflects current requirements.

[casabonny]

Out of interest I looked up my guide and tho it's a couple of years old, it indicates that when you sell a car in Spain you must obtain and complete a 'transfer of ownership' (notificasion de transferencia de vehiculos, usually called a transferencia) form, available from the provincial traffic department (trafico). One copy is given to the buyer and the other sent to trafico. When you sell a car in Spain there is a transfer tax to pay also (by the buyer) of 4% of the fiscal value, though it is the responsibiloity of the seller to pay (hand over) the tax! The tax is declared on form 620 (compra-venta de vehiculos usados entre particulares) obtainable from a tobacconist's or tax office.

The seller must complete, sign and date the reverse of the car's registration document under the section transferido and take it directly to the local trafico with any other relevant papers and a form from the local town hall on which you've de-registered your ownership (for municipal tax reasons).

Hope this still reflects current requirements.

a bit out of date but the prinicipal is the same! All Trafico forms are available online or at the DGT in Santa Cruz.Modelos 620 are available at Hacienda in the South and North or can be completed online and printed.Tax must now be paid in the bank, Hacienda WILL NOT ACCEPT payment for this anymore !
The signing on the reverse of the permiso has been obsolete for some time as this was before the new style permiso came into force , probably 4/5 years or more ago.
Never heard of the form to take showing de registering at the town hall, this is notified directly by Trafico to the Town Halls once a year after 31/12 .
Who pays the 4% tax is really up to both parties to agree and is payable on the official valuation not necessarily the sale price.

[atlantico]

so, is it correct that it is the sellers/owners responsibility to ensure the name is taken off all Traficos documentation. If I were selling a car, even to a garage, I'd get a gestor to arrange all the sale paperwork and name transfers and wouldn't rely on the garage to do it for me - unless I was selling to Motorworld of course!

[TenerifePool]

Baja the vehicle at Trafico.

[samnickgodber]

Can´t baja the vehicle as you need the permiso ect to do this, However saw the garage yesterday and they are taking care of it and have also offered to pay the taxes that the guy has left owing, but being bitten buy hm already, i have told him we will be back next Friday to see all proof of paperwork to make sure this time xxx

[casabonny]

Can´t baja the vehicle as you need the permiso ect to do this, However saw the garage yesterday and they are taking care of it and have also offered to pay the taxes that the guy has left owing, but being bitten buy hm already, i have told him we will be back next Friday to see all proof of paperwork to make sure this time xxx

Not strictly true re Baja.It CAN be done without the permiso but its a bit complicated so wont go into that just now.Even if the garage guy has offered to pay the taxes the car will still be in your name until such time as 1) its in baja permanete 2 ) transfered out of your name.
Wait and see but you can check that the taxes have been paid yourself by going to the Town hall where the car was registered and asking for anything pending.Remember that if its back years taxes there is a recargo and interest appled daily ( although this is not much it can soon mount up) .

[samnickgodber]

Ok just an update,
We have just found the vehicle for sale on ebay with the guys phone number,
My hubby has just phoned him and he said he didn´t know that the vehicle was still in my hubbys name bull crap, hes not interested so i´m not sure what to do next,
I am considering calling the cops in Middlesex which is where he is and explaining to them the situation and that uner spanish law the vehicle belongs to my hubby and he has no right to sell it and we want it back,,,
What do you guys think?

[slodgedad]

Do it. As long as the car is still in your name you have to cover yourself

[samnickgodber]

Do it. As long as the car is still in your name you have to cover yourself

The car is deffo still in his name as we did a check at Traffico last week when we heard that it might still be in his name,,,

[dipper]

Email ebay and inform them he does not own the car and if they advertise it they are condoning fraud.

[Dan747]

Guessing it's this one?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Ranger-Sport-4x4-2-8-Diesel-White-D-Cab-Pick-Up-LHD-Spanish-Import-2005-/170918200419?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item27cb84c463

I've noted the selling agent has put down that it is not currently UK registered. I think it's probably worth giving Middlesex Police a bell and informing them you have located the vehicle for sale on ebay, you could ask them nicely if they'll call the guy and inform him that he needs to register the vehicle in his name/register it with the DVLA. The issue you may have is the fact as far as the UK Police will be concerned, the guy is the owner of the vehicle as he has bought it from the garage, he just hasn't updated the registered keeper details, they won't be overly bothered about that sadly, the only time they'll care is when the vehicle has been in the country long enough to need registering here.

There are many vehicles driving around the UK which haven't had the registered keeper details updated, generally if stopped the Police just advise the new owner to contact the DVLA to notify them of a change in ownership and purchase a new log book. Given you can now tax and insure UK vehicles online without showing a logbook, it means many people just don't bother updating it, the best advice for people is to ensure they send off the new keeper paperwork when they sell the car, rather than rely on the person buying it too.

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Email ebay and inform them he does not own the car and if they advertise it they are condoning fraud.

Sadly under UK law where the transaction would take place, he does own the car as he has bought it from the garage, he just hasn't updated the registered keeper details.

[samnickgodber]

I have informed Ebay and they have asked me to email proof of ownership, all i could send them was my reciept for when i first brought it and the last tax reciept too,
I am going to call the police and inform them of the phone number and ask them if they would kindly call him ,,,,

[casabonny]

I have informed Ebay and they have asked me to email proof of ownership, all i could send them was my reciept for when i first brought it and the last tax reciept too,
I am going to call the police and inform them of the phone number and ask them if they would kindly call him ,,,,

If you obtained an informe from Trafico last week showing the car was still in your name why not send that? After all thats official and like getting something from DVLA ie the Spanish eqivilant of .???

[KirstyJay]

It might be worth contacting the seller too, as it looks like a company that has taken on the sale of the vehicle, not the person you have sold it to. They might be concerned about their eBay profile taking a hit and give you the help you need ;)

[nurse ratchet]

It might be worth contacting the seller too, as it looks like a company that has taken on the sale of the vehicle, not the person you have sold it to. They might be concerned about their eBay profile taking a hit and give you the help you need ;)

and their telephone number is clearly shown on the first photograph!!

[samnickgodber]

If you obtained an informe from Trafico last week showing the car was still in your name why not send that? After all thats official and like getting something from DVLA ie the Spanish eqivilant of .???

Couldn´t send it as we have mistakenly sent it with the garage up to traffico to do a notification,

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It might be worth contacting the seller too, as it looks like a company that has taken on the sale of the vehicle, not the person you have sold it to. They might be concerned about their eBay profile taking a hit and give you the help you need ;)

We thought that too, but when we rang the number it was the guy that has the truck and he´s not bothered gggrrrr,

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and their telephone number is clearly shown on the first photograph!!

We have called the number and it is the actual guys phone number and he aint bothered gggrrr

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Ebay have replied saying that they cannot do anything unless i can get the police to call them,
Picking usless trying to sort anything out,