View Full Version : Other What gives non residents the right to determine what's right and wrong in Tenerife?
carpenter
03-11-2012, 00:28
What gives non residents the right to determine what's right and wrong in Tenerife?
Many people are leaving the island, many people are struggling to find work yet it is common place for forum members that don't even live here to pass judgement on what is right and wrong.
Builders and other tradesmen that don't pay into the system
People that offer airport transfers
People that offer ITV services
People that offer Translation services
Mobile Hairdressers and Beauty Therapists
Landlords that let out unlicensed holiday apartments
PR's
These are just a few of the things that people get angry about, but what you non residents don't realise is how difficult and expensive it is to stay here on this paradise island that you say we are so lucky to live on.
You are so quick to pass judgement on how things should be done and how the law must be obeyed.
If someone wants to earn a few quid running someone to the airport you start screaming from the rooftops saying "you are not legal", "you are not insured" etc. Do you have any idea how expensive social care is here? My Monthly social is €307 and that's regardless of if I have work or do not, then I get taxed on my earnings.
This islands needs it's black economy! without it it is doomed especially in the current economic climate. For those with families and dependents you are forcing them to return to the UK to sponge off the dole with your high and mighty attitude rather than turn a blind eye and support a struggling Expat that just wants to work and pay his/her own way.
If I want to slag off a black worker I can because I live here. I'm fed up with the swallows and holiday makers that preach and don't know how hard it is here!
Last month the unemployment went up by over 7000 to the highest ever and crime went up by 28%. Soon you will not have an island to holiday on!
timmylish
03-11-2012, 00:43
Whilst not entirely agreeing with everything you say I do, nevertheless, understand where you are at and would question some of the observations made by certain British tourists, some of whom, are experts on all matters pertaining to Paradise.
Of course there's always the argument that unemployment will go up if people are doing the same job illegally.
This is not the fault of anybody who lives in the UK.
Entirely disagree with the sentiment Carpenter. I may be a mere non-resident, but am I not entitled to an opinion on what I pay for, observe and experience? If I went into a restaurant and had cr-p food, or fantastic food aren't I allowed to say so, just coz I am a non-resident? If I pay money for 'work done' to some useless oik, or to someone who gives me a fantastic kitchen aren't I allowed to say so?
I am as entitled as you to comment on anything I wish. Would I deny you the opportunity to comment on any matter related to London as you're no longer resident of the UK? Of course not - you express you'd opinion is any case.
We may be a mere non-residents, but we spent many weeks each year in Tenerife and we spend a lot of money in those weeks. Over the years we have bought and sold property, bought insurance, professional services, had installed kitchens, bathrooms, changed windows and generally had property maintained. We have eaten out (my favoured way) and drunk our share of coffee, wine and beer. We've done tours - on boats, hire car, buses, on foot. We'be bought stuff - cameras, stereos, clothes etc. All of this has provided income to people living in Tenerife and to the local government. So I am perfectly entitled to express any opinion on Tenerife that I wish and no-one, especially one I sense is feeling sorry for themselves, is going to deny me that and start to denegrate me by the negative use of the terms 'swallow' or 'holidaymaker'.
We have income on which we have to pay tax and we have to pay my bills out of that net income, so why should I be happy if I suspect a trademan is fiddling the tax system - either in Tenerife, or London - or is working illegally?
I've come across 'residents' who are not residents, legally, speaking, yet seem to be working in Tenerife. I have come across people who clearly don't pay tax on their income. OK I have unwittingly supported some of those people in the past, like 'lookey-lookey men'. I see working locals (that would be actual Canarians) having to compete with what amounts to illegal ex-pats. I've experience both good and bad tradesmen, including a tradesman who told me he was legal, but I'm yet to receive the invoice!
I pay for and observe and experience things in Tenerife and I am entitled to comment on those observations and experiences.
Yes, I know it's tough in Tenerife. It's been tough all around the world. It's been tough on us too - in the UK we have a poor economy and it costs more for us to get to Tenerife and more to eat etc. Frankly... er, it's tough - and that's the time we're in. We have to get on with it and if you can't hack it, for whatever reason, then there are options. And before you flip, no it's not my concern if a business goes belly-up. That's just the way it is, the nature of the beast. Some will make it because they have a sensible, well thought out and financed plan. Others will fall at the first hurdle for much the same reasons.
Do you think that I, as a mere non-resident, should I be happy that residents get discounts on flights and ferries? Why would I be unhappy that residents pay less for food/drinks at many places than a mere non-resident. Why should I be happy that if a resident sells a property it costs that person far less that it costs me, the mere non-resident. I have to fight to get back some capital gains tax. I have to supply copies of all receipts and tradesmen who did work and copies of documents galore. And all that costs me more fees. Oh yes, more income for islanders! Am I happy? No I am blooming well not. I must raise this with my MEP. Oh sorry, he's in the bar. Cheers.
Wow Balcony you've turned into Nelson.....:laugh:
people are entitled to their opinions on this forum. Its an open forum so where people live is not relevant. The issue of people working and earning outside the legal economy and not paying tax etc, is the same thing in the uk. There are many lucky people in well paid salaried jobs who are very much against those they see as fiddling the system by earning on the side or mis claiming benefits etc. They usually dont realise how difficult it is for people to manage on low paid jobs if they do everything by the book. In the uk govt work schemes , tax credits etc, often leave the recipient on a meagre wage with no way of providing for a family. If the worker can claim tax credit and receive basic pay declared, then get his overtime in cash , well then he can mamage ok. Some would condem this as blatent fraud, others might accept the system is not paying the man fair in the first place. This worker then spends his earnings in the economy , his legal wages/benefits and his cash also. He will not be a saver, so all his earnings then goes to helpother business's. He then will be spending this money in business where people might work who would condem what he is doing as fraud , but without his spending would their legit job be safe and secure?
Peoples opinion on this sort of thing will depend on if they live in the well paid legit world or if they have been in the position of working in the black economy to survive. In a perfect world everyone would be able to provide for their families without bending the system, but in reality that is not the case. Many of the critics of people bending the rules dont realise that these rule benders earnings might be keeping them in their legit employment.
I think you're taking this too seriously guys.
Carpenter's complaint was about non residents having an opinion, that's all. It was a go at non residents.
If you look back you'll see he started the thread "ex pats can be so anal" .....lol
Carpenter is not a happy man that's for sure. But let's not get political.
Malteser Monkey
03-11-2012, 10:39
Is that baby keeping you up at night Carpenter ?
We all have opinions on everything - it's what we choose to do with them and how we express them that counts
ps I'm an ex residente so I know just how hard it is
Is that baby keeping you up at night Carpenter ?
We all have opinions on everything - it's what we choose to do with them and how we express them that counts
ps I'm an ex residente so I know just how hard it is
Carpenter ,it's alright you having a go at us tourists who are keeping your motherland country warm for you to bolt back to when the going gets tough.But with out the money from us NON-RESIDENTS tenerife would return to being a little fishing village.When bringing a family over to tenerife for a week costs me with flight,accomodation ,food and spending money about £3500,trust me that's hard earned cash in the building trade.Like i said before i dont want a young leary sprogg telling me where to spend my hard earnt cash.and i bet you wouldn't either.
Ecky Thump
03-11-2012, 10:59
What gives non residents the right to determine what's right and wrong in Tenerife?
Many people are leaving the island, many people are struggling to find work yet it is common place for forum members that don't even live here to pass judgement on what is right and wrong.
Builders and other tradesmen that don't pay into the system
People that offer airport transfers
People that offer ITV services
People that offer Translation services
Mobile Hairdressers and Beauty Therapists
Landlords that let out unlicensed holiday apartments
PR's
These are just a few of the things that people get angry about, but what you non residents don't realise is how difficult and expensive it is to stay here on this paradise island that you say we are so lucky to live on.
You are so quick to pass judgement on how things should be done and how the law must be obeyed.
If someone wants to earn a few quid running someone to the airport you start screaming from the rooftops saying "you are not legal", "you are not insured" etc. Do you have any idea how expensive social care is here? My Monthly social is €307 and that's regardless of if I have work or do not, then I get taxed on my earnings.
This islands needs it's black economy! without it it is doomed especially in the current economic climate. For those with families and dependents you are forcing them to return to the UK to sponge off the dole with your high and mighty attitude rather than turn a blind eye and support a struggling Expat that just wants to work and pay his/her own way.
If I want to slag off a black worker I can because I live here. I'm fed up with the swallows and holiday makers that preach and don't know how hard it is here!
To say something is illegal, when it is, is not preaching to say so......its just factual.
One of the points that you are making is the use of illegal taxis and you say it helps "struggling" expats, what about the expat who is a legal taxi driver.....does it help him if others are not legal with the correct car insurance use their cars for airport transfers?
This also can and does apply, where Joe Bloggs (struggling ex pat) does electrical or gas repairs etc. without the correct legal requirements.
These laws help and protect us holiday makers and expats alike!!
If you want to preach that it is OK to break the law of the country (Paradise Island) where you have chosen to live, then expect others to respond to what you have written on a open forum.
Harmonicaman
03-11-2012, 11:46
The same right that gives Tenerife residents (of pensionable age), the right to claim UK fuel allowance...really does my head in that does. One of my members who lives in Tenerife has just posted her thermometer is showing about 26 degrees. I'm scraping frost of the car windscreen over here to go shopping. Doesn't make a lot of sense does it?
Malteser Monkey
03-11-2012, 12:15
blimey all we need now is "my Tenerife" to return - remember him ?:whistle:
and where's my mate Jimbo when you need him:crylaughing:
There are at least 9 categories:
1. People who do honest work and pay taxes
2. People who do dishonest work and pay taxes
3. People who do honest work and don't pay taxes
4. People who do no work and don't pay taxes
5. People who do dishonest work and don't pay taxes
6. People who do honest work and also draw benefits
7. People who do no work and draw benefits in accordance with the rules of the benefits system
8. People who do no work and draw benefits by cheating the benefits system
9. People who do dishonest work and also draw benefits
(I define "honest" work as work which delivers at least as much value to the buyer as the buyer pays for that work, and where the buyer is paying with honestly-obtained funds.)
These categories have different effects on society as a whole, but it seems clear to me that (3) is much better for society than (5), (6), (8) and (9) at least.
canary boy
03-11-2012, 13:49
The same reason brussels determines what happens everywhere
What gives non residents the right to determine what's right and wrong in Tenerife?
Many people are leaving the island, many people are struggling to find work yet it is common place for forum members that don't even live here to pass judgement on what is right and wrong.
Builders and other tradesmen that don't pay into the system
People that offer airport transfers
People that offer ITV services
People that offer Translation services
Mobile Hairdressers and Beauty Therapists
Landlords that let out unlicensed holiday apartments
PR's
These are just a few of the things that people get angry about, but what you non residents don't realise is how difficult and expensive it is to stay here on this paradise island that you say we are so lucky to live on.
You are so quick to pass judgement on how things should be done and how the law must be obeyed.
If someone wants to earn a few quid running someone to the airport you start screaming from the rooftops saying "you are not legal", "you are not insured" etc. Do you have any idea how expensive social care is here? My Monthly social is €307 and that's regardless of if I have work or do not, then I get taxed on my earnings.
This islands needs it's black economy! without it it is doomed especially in the current economic climate. For those with families and dependents you are forcing them to return to the UK to sponge off the dole with your high and mighty attitude rather than turn a blind eye and support a struggling Expat that just wants to work and pay his/her own way.
If I want to slag off a black worker I can because I live here. I'm fed up with the swallows and holiday makers that preach and don't know how hard it is here!
Last month the unemployment went up by over 7000 to the highest ever and crime went up by 28%. Soon you will not have an island to holiday on!
"This islands needs it's black economy! without it it is doomed especially in the current economic climate. For those with families and dependents you are forcing them to return to the UK to sponge off the dole with your high and mighty attitude rather than turn a blind eye and support a struggling Expat that just wants to work and pay his/her own way."
Some are still sponging off the UK benefits system while still working in the black economy in Tenerife as you put it.
4112
We have first been spoilt with the economy growing, but now when it gets harder the rulers are manipulating and pointing fingers through the media. The exploition of third world (Asia) had to end eventually. They knew it will cush long before it started. Now they wan't to change our attention. But let's not get supprised over the nature of human, that is to aquire. And we grab whatever we can, if we only can. History shows that the way it's done just doesn't matter. The bankers that ruined it all will stay safe to the end, as G20 guarantees getting them out of debt allways, of course by ripping it of us. Don't blame the poor!
While i dont agree with everything carpenter has said he does have a very good point about the costs of being legal.
Most people starting up small businesses only do so because finding a job is hard and if they can generate 1000-1500 euros per month by creating their own work then they're happy.
Unfortunately to pay 300-350 euros per month on social security and accountancy fees is a massive chunk out of their income - especially of they have a bad month!
A way to make small start ups stand a chance should be looked at.
carpenter
03-11-2012, 19:01
I'm not here to tell anyone they are wrong but it's funny that Balcony states that if something is crap it his right to say it is but this right is not extended to me. (ref xfactor and live music)
I find this forum creeping back to how it used to be which is a very nasty place indeed.
"This islands needs it's black economy! without it it is doomed especially in the current economic climate. For those with families and dependents you are forcing them to return to the UK to sponge off the dole with your high and mighty attitude rather than turn a blind eye and support a struggling Expat that just wants to work and pay his/her own way."
Some are still sponging off the UK benefits system while still working in the black economy in Tenerife as you put it.
well i'm not nor is anyone that I know. if you know who is earn yourself £50 and tell the benefit services
Carpenter ,it's alright you having a go at us tourists who are keeping your motherland country warm for you to bolt back to when the going gets tough.But with out the money from us NON-RESIDENTS tenerife would return to being a little fishing village.When bringing a family over to tenerife for a week costs me with flight,accomodation ,food and spending money about £3500,trust me that's hard earned cash in the building trade.Like i said before i dont want a young leary sprogg telling me where to spend my hard earnt cash.and i bet you wouldn't either.
Thank you so much for supporting my mother country. The fact that I still pay taxes in the UK despite not living there are nothing compared to your misfortunes I'm sure.
Sorry but all I'm asking is that people that don't live here back off judgement of anyone that wants to earn a bit of extra cash on the side or have you got cement between your ears?
delderek
03-11-2012, 19:31
Is the Island so very different from the UK. The biggest sector for business failure is building/construction.
Many tradesmen, who may be really good at their job are not business orientated, and fail to realise if you quote 500 euros for a job 30% of that belongs to the Govt, and needs to be put in a separate account for when the official bills arrive. So if that means quoting 650, that's what has to be done. Unfortunately if a black economy exists, then someone will undercut you. This is not unique to Tenerife, it is worldwide, although the South of Tenerife is probably pretty high up in the league. But using Greece as a benchmark, the black economy comes at a high price,,,eventually.
carpenter
03-11-2012, 19:40
Is the Island so very different from the UK. The biggest sector for business failure is building/construction.
Many tradesmen, who may be really good at their job are not business orientated, and fail to realise if you quote 500 euros for a job 30% of that belongs to the Govt, and needs to be put in a separate account for when the official bills arrive. So if that means quoting 650, that's what has to be done. Unfortunately if a black economy exists, then someone will undercut you. This is not unique to Tenerife, it is worldwide, although the South of Tenerife is probably pretty high up in the league. But using Greece as a benchmark, the black economy comes at a high price,,,eventually.
Too true, but what I'm saying is what wrong with a little supplementary income, you pay your dues and then there's a little bonus available. According to many you shouldn't take that work.
Do taxi drivers declare their tips?
Carpenter ,it's alright you having a go at us tourists who are keeping your motherland country warm for you to bolt back to when the going gets tough.But with out the money from us NON-RESIDENTS tenerife would return to being a little fishing village.When bringing a family over to tenerife for a week costs me with flight,accomodation ,food and spending money about £3500,trust me that's hard earned cash in the building trade.Like i said before i dont want a young leary sprogg telling me where to spend my hard earnt cash.and i bet you wouldn't either.
In addition Jase you will never no the horrors that the motherland dealt me and my wife and your comment is possible the most pig headed thing I've heard to date. "But with out the money from us NON-RESIDENTS tenerife would return to being a little fishing village." how high and mighty of you and your pound. Do me a favour and spend it somewhere else.
Too true, but what I'm saying is what wrong with a little supplementary income, you pay your dues and then there's a little bonus available. According to many you shouldn't take that work.
Do taxi drivers declare their tips?
In addition Jase you will never no the horrors that the motherland dealt me and my wife and your comment is possible the most pig headed thing I've heard to date. "But with out the money from us NON-RESIDENTS tenerife would return to being a little fishing village." how high and mighty of you and your pound. Do me a favour and spend it somewhere else.tbh carpenter the way i took the post he was having a go at the pr's when he said about young leary sproggs telling him where to spent his cash? unless i miss understood it?;)and i am all for a little entreprenarial activity, i earn at least £12,000 a year on top of my wage tax free buy buying and selling a few things, which enables me to come to tenerife a couple of times a year;)
carpenter
03-11-2012, 20:13
tbh carpenter the way i took the post he was having a go at the pr's when he said about young leary sproggs telling him where to spent his cash? unless i miss understood it?;)
If I've misinterpreted his post (as I've been known to do before) I apologise
If I've misinterpreted his post (as I've been known to do before) I apologiselmao join the club mate, i usually misinterpret posts about 11.00 oclock at night after a few beers:laugh:
This got a few going didnt it
Mut say I agree with Balcony.s views on the whole, and Yes, I dont live there either.
Any opinions I share on this Forum, are formed by a very old Formula.
RIGHT and Wrong.
I can see where Carpenter is coming from, but maybe in a few Weeks time, and a few GOOD Nights of sleep,
He just MIGHT wonder whether this Thread had been of any use.?
carpenter
03-11-2012, 21:50
Right and wrong versus survival? and whilst most are sat back in the UK with the central heating and slippers on wishing they were here, I can only wish I were in their position of easily being able to pass judgement without the fear of it directly affecting my life
Right and wrong versus survival? and whilst most are sat back in the UK with the central heating and slippers on wishing they were here, I can only wish I were in their position of easily being able to pass judgement without the fear of it directly affecting my life
Which is exactly what YOU are doing.. (walked into that one Mate):D:D
This got a few going didnt it
Mut say I agree with Balcony.s views on the whole, and Yes, I dont live there either.
Any opinions I share on this Forum, are formed by a very old Formula.
RIGHT and Wrong.
I can see where Carpenter is coming from, but maybe in a few Weeks time, and a few GOOD Nights of sleep,
He just MIGHT wonder whether this Thread had been of any use.?you may be rite m8, carpenter is a good guy at heart and maybe feeling the pinch at the minute with an extra mouth to feed and work being slow, i was talking to a master carpenter in taylors lounge the other week and he is working for 20 euros a day:( but he was happy enough because he said it was his beer money,my cousin in the uk is a master carpenter and he is working on listed buildings for £200 a day
you may be rite m8, carpenter is a good guy at heart and maybe feeling the pinch at the minute with an extra mouth to feed and work being slow, i was talking to a master carpenter in taylors lounge the other week and he is working for 20 euros a day:( but he was happy enough because he said it was his beer money,my cousin in the uk is a master carpenter and he is working on listed buildings for £200 a day
I can never win an Argument, because I always understand the Other's point of view.
It could happen that one of the Accused Group might need some work doing in future on Their Holiday Home.
Say no more.
carpenter
03-11-2012, 22:59
Which is exactly what YOU are doing.. (walked into that one Mate):D:D
Sorry but I'm not on a UK forum telling you what you can and can't do. marbro8 €20 a day? WTF no wonder work is slow ha ha!
and as far as the accused group needing work done in the future.... property maintenance was my bread and butter but the illegal lettings clampdown has ceased that income completely. I'm now a key holder for my last client's property letting the estate agents in for viewings as he had to sell.
No sympathy wanted or needed I will always be able to look after my family so it's not a matter of feeling sorry for myself.
Just next time someone offers or wants a lift to the airport please don't strike out with what's right and what's wrong. Please spare a thought for those struggling to put food on their tables.
You DON'T live here so YOU DON'T KNOW!
:)
chifleta
03-11-2012, 23:34
What gives non residents the right to determine what's right and wrong in Tenerife?
Many people are leaving the island, many people are struggling to find work yet it is common place for forum members that don't even live here to pass judgement on what is right and wrong.
Builders and other tradesmen that don't pay into the system
People that offer airport transfers
People that offer ITV services
People that offer Translation services
Mobile Hairdressers and Beauty Therapists
Landlords that let out unlicensed holiday apartments
PR's
These are just a few of the things that people get angry about, but what you non residents don't realise is how difficult and expensive it is to stay here on this paradise island that you say we are so lucky to live on.
You are so quick to pass judgement on how things should be done and how the law must be obeyed.
If someone wants to earn a few quid running someone to the airport you start screaming from the rooftops saying "you are not legal", "you are not insured" etc. Do you have any idea how expensive social care is here? My Monthly social is €307 and that's regardless of if I have work or do not, then I get taxed on my earnings.
This islands needs it's black economy! without it it is doomed especially in the current economic climate. For those with families and dependents you are forcing them to return to the UK to sponge off the dole with your high and mighty attitude rather than turn a blind eye and support a struggling Expat that just wants to work and pay his/her own way.
If I want to slag off a black worker I can because I live here. I'm fed up with the swallows and holiday makers that preach and don't know how hard it is here!
Last month the unemployment went up by over 7000 to the highest ever and crime went up by 28%. Soon you will not have an island to holiday on!
I also agree with a lot of what you said.... but on the other side you have to understand those of us that, for many years, as employees, were on a e.g. 12 hour contract, although earning a full time wage paid as overtime, without the knowlegde that in the eventuality that we'd have to claim dole money that basically, being on a part time contract, you'd actually get paid a very small percentage of your "nomina" (i'm talking a few years ago, things may have changed, but I doubt it - I was getting something like 60% of 50% of my final nomina - basically 190€ a month). Now even my ex-boss didn't know that it would happen like that at the time as he'd never claimed dole over here either, but unfortunately the nearly 13 years that I'd worked here for three different companies, officially i've only "cotizado" (paid into the system) 6 years - so even for pension i'm buggered - I worked 7 years in UK and 6 "full time" years here .... slight problem for the future.
I've had another job after that, but that's another story i won't go into, it still miffs me off (being very polite) but needless to say I was promised a proper contract and didn't get it - so same problem.
I can't be bothered slagging off anyone, i'm past that (almost LOL), but i've learnt big lessons, so I won't be stupid the next time, I'll only take a job that gives me a proper contract, albeit a crappy wage ... but that'll be next year (hopefully).
- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -
There are at least 9 categories:
1. People who do honest work and pay taxes
2. People who do dishonest work and pay taxes
3. People who do honest work and don't pay taxes
4. People who do no work and don't pay taxes
5. People who do dishonest work and don't pay taxes
6. People who do honest work and also draw benefits
7. People who do no work and draw benefits in accordance with the rules of the benefits system
8. People who do no work and draw benefits by cheating the benefits system
9. People who do dishonest work and also draw benefits
(I define "honest" work as work which delivers at least as much value to the buyer as the buyer pays for that work, and where the buyer is paying with honestly-obtained funds.)
These categories have different effects on society as a whole, but it seems clear to me that (3) is much better for society than (5), (6), (8) and (9) at least.
Oh, i'm Nº7 ..... it's funny, I was offered a job without a contract a while ago, I turned it down, they knew I would, but thought they'd ask anyway - i'm not going down that road whilst i'm legally claiming Ayuda - two reasons why I turned them down, i'm too honest to do that and i'm thankfully not one of the desperate ones - if I was desperate and in dire need, then I think I, along with everyone else would re-think their situation and their opinions/actions.
- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -
While i dont agree with everything carpenter has said he does have a very good point about the costs of being legal.
Most people starting up small businesses only do so because finding a job is hard and if they can generate 1000-1500 euros per month by creating their own work then they're happy.
Unfortunately to pay 300-350 euros per month on social security and accountancy fees is a massive chunk out of their income - especially of they have a bad month!
A way to make small start ups stand a chance should be looked at.
So true - I looked into opening my own busines - I did my homework - I decided it wasn't worth the risk - so i'm still Nº7 on that list :)
- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -
If I've misinterpreted his post (as I've been known to do before) I apologise
<<<<< chortling :whistle:
Sorry but I'm not on a UK forum telling you what you can and can't do. marbro8 €20 a day? WTF no wonder work is slow ha ha!
and as far as the accused group needing work done in the future.... property maintenance was my bread and butter but the illegal lettings clampdown has ceased that income completely. I'm now a key holder for my last client's property letting the estate agents in for viewings as he had to sell.
No sympathy wanted or needed I will always be able to look after my family so it's not a matter of feeling sorry for myself.
Just next time someone offers or wants a lift to the airport please don't strike out with what's right and what's wrong. Please spare a thought for those struggling to put food on their tables.
You DON'T live here so YOU DON'T KNOW!
:)
Stop moaning! Just get your off your **** and do something! :)
OK, I know its not as easy as that, but there are ways to make money here if you are smarter than the average Joe and know plenty of people here in Tenerife.
If you ain´t earning anything then sign off being autonomo... And ask your gestor if you can claim benefits. If you´ve paid in and can show legitimately that you have had to close your business then apparently, as autonomos we can now claim something... worth checking.
I can think of a simple way of maybe making some spare cash. Send me an email - info@tenerifeestateagents.net
Not promising anything spectacular but if you have time on your hands then there is some potential.
carpenter
04-11-2012, 00:03
Stop moaning! Just get your off your **** and do something! :)
OK, I know its not as easy as that, but there are ways to make money here if you are smarter than the average Joe and know plenty of people here in Tenerife.
If you ain´t earning anything then sign off being autonomo... And ask your gestor if you can claim benefits. If you´ve paid in and can show legitimately that you have had to close your business then apparently, as autonomos we can now claim something... worth checking.
I can think of a simple way of maybe making some spare cash. Send me an email - info@tenerifeestateagents.net
Not promising anything spectacular but if you have time on your hands then there is some potential.
to say stop moaning is an easy retort
it's not about moaning it's asking
actually I can't be bothered TF **** off I've had enough
please remove me mods and delete my membership thanks
[QUOTE=marbro8;234235]tbh carpenter the way i took the post he was having a go at the pr's when he said about young leary sproggs telling him where to spent his cash? unless i miss understood it?;)and i am all for a little entreprenarial activity, i earn at least £12,000 a year on top of my wage tax free buy buying and selling a few things, which enables me to come to tenerife a couple of times a year;)[/QUO
Realy ???
I never wrote this post,whats going on,Lapalma
[QUOTE=marbro8;234235]tbh carpenter the way i took the post he was having a go at the pr's when he said about young leary sproggs telling him where to spent his cash? unless i miss understood it?;)and i am all for a little entreprenarial activity, i earn at least £12,000 a year on top of my wage tax free buy buying and selling a few things, which enables me to come to tenerife a couple of times a year;)[/QUO
Realy ???and:confused:
- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -
to say stop moaning is an easy retort
it's not about moaning it's asking
actually I can't be bothered TF **** off I've had enough
please remove me mods and delete my membership thankswtf was that m8? to me andy was actualy offering you some help? come on big guy ;)
Own worst enemy I think. Offer rescinded... just cant help some people!
Dont know what is happening with this site,but I do know that there are now major problems and some persons are now able to come on to the site and create massive problems,where are the admin when something such as this goes wrong.
Don't worry about it - tis just a website. If no one is actually doing you any real harm on here the best thing to do is close it and come back in a few days if it gets you down.
Don't read too much into stuff on here - I used to and I dont any more. Far too many bitter folk who want to put you down, use passive aggressive wording to throw insinuations (especially if you are self employed - lot of jealous type it seems) so I just dont bother too much any more. Its the only practical response :)
Same on most forums, people are very different on the net and even in emails I find, to what they are on the phone and face to face.
Dont know what is happening with this site,but I do know that there are now major problems and some persons are now able to come on to the site and create massive problems,where are the admin when something such as this goes wrong.no probs lampala pm sent;)
Dont know what is happening with this site,but I do know that there are now major problems and some persons are now able to come on to the site and create massive problems,where are the admin when something such as this goes wrong.
What exactly has gone wrong ? From what I've read a poster has made a thread giving his opinion on a subject and what has followed is some partially agreeing with him, some partially disagreeing, some fully disagreeing and the OP deciding that he's had enough and would like to leave the forum. Hardly anything requiring admin to jump in - after all we are all meant to be adults on here are we not ?
Anyway I'm team carpenter - you tell'em big man !! :-)
What exactly has gone wrong ? From what I've read a poster has made a thread giving his opinion on a subject and what has followed is some partially agreeing with him, some partially disagreeing, some fully disagreeing and the OP deciding that he's had enough and would like to leave the forum. Hardly anything requiring admin to jump in - after all we are all meant to be adults on here are we not ?
Anyway I'm team carpenter - you tell'em big man !! :-)because i had posted that here in the uk i was earning about £12,000 a year tax free, and there was a post by lampala saying "really" which to me was accusing but as lampala has posted he didn't actually post it, so where has the post come from?
because i had posted that here in the uk i was earning about £12,000 a year tax free, and there was a post by lampala saying "really" which to me was accusing but as lampala has posted he didn't actually post it, so where has the post come from?
I must have missed that bit mate, and good on you for making some extra money and not paying the tax. I pay more than my fair share of taxes and the chance to earn some for yourself without the grabbing *******s in the government getting their filthy paws on it should be lauded. You should probably delete that bit though mate because it wouldn't surprise me if some of the busier members on here are reporting you as we speak !!
YOUNG GOLFER
04-11-2012, 01:22
to say stop moaning is an easy retort
it's not about moaning it's asking
actually I can't be bothered TF **** off I've had enough
please remove me mods and delete my membership thanks
No need to go carpenter............you start a thread like this and you are bound to get a few replies you don't like that's what a forum is all about.
I have had it tough over the 20 plus years I have been living here......and with 2 young children it's hard but we won't give up on fighting for what we as family believe to be a better life.....and even in times like this we have gone forward.
But that's not luck...........me and my wife work every day if we have to.
Life can be hard here with paying social each month rent on my office taxes,mortgage etc etc......but one thing for sure the harder we work the more we win and for the first time ever we are doing well.
I know CIM (Andy) better than most people and this man has a young child also and works 7 days a week and again it's not luck...he will be the first to tell you that he is now doing very well but like me work always comes first.
What I am trying to say is get out there put youself about and I am sure you will find work........ I have a couple of builders working for us now and again and they are very busy.
I would like to add some off your post come across sad which is a shame but if your not happy then maybe somewhere else might be the best thing for you and your family.
Move on and start again.
slodgedad
04-11-2012, 01:41
No need to go carpenter............you start a thread like this and you are bound to get a few replies you don't like that's what a forum is all about.
I have had it tough over the 20 plus years I have been living here......and with 2 young children it's hard but we won't give up on fighting for what we as family believe to be a better life.....and even in times like this we have gone forward.
But that's not luck...........me and my wife work every day if we have to.
Life can be hard here with paying social each month rent on my office taxes,mortgage etc etc......but one thing for sure the harder we work the more we win and for the first time ever we are doing well.
I know CIM (Andy) better than most people and this man has a young child also and works 7 days a week and again it's not luck...he will be the first to tell you that he to now doing very well but like me work always comes first.
What I am trying to say is get out there put youself about and I am sure you will find work........ I have a couple of builders working for us now and again and they are very busy.
I would like to add some off your post come across sad which is a shame but if your not happy then maybe somewhere else might be the best thing for you and your family.
Move on and start again.
Isn't it strange that the harder you work the luckier you seem to get....:flatcap:
Tom & Sharon
04-11-2012, 12:25
There are lots of issues at play here. Carpenter, you are obviously not happy at the moment. By your own previous admissions, you are in a place you don't want to be, you have no/little work to feed your family (which you rightly see as your role) and you have the added strains of a new baby. Not really a recipe for happiness.
However, you are asking people to justify the little things you do illegally by the fact that you need to put food on the table, and telling non residents they are not qualified to comment because they "don't know how it is". Both these arguments have huge holes in them.
Firstly, we are all ex-pats. Even when you have lived in Tenerife for donkeys years, you are still an ex-pat, always will be. In your mind there is obviously some kind of hierarchy of ex-pats, but there isn't really, we're all the same - just ask a Canarian. You have chosen to live in a country which is not the place of your birth - not your "homeland". You are not it's citizen, and it has no responsibilities towards you. This is your choice and that's fine, but when you make that choice, that is the bottom line. It is your responsibility to make your living, and feed and provide for your family. By the Spanish Government allowing you to live in their country, there is an implied understanding that this is done legally. If you don't like that fact, then you shouldn't be there - it isn't fair to them or the indigenous population. When you talk of running someone to the airport, it may be something of nothing to you, but you are still taking work from legal Canarian taxi drivers who also have a family to feed. Who's going to feed their families if their income dries up? All because the ex-pat builders/electricians/plumbers are scratching round for work and feel it's justified to pull the rug from under their feet because "they have a family to feed"? They are the indigenous population, they belong there, they have nowhere else to go. They don't have a safety net - it's work or starve. When the going gets really tough they can't just jump on a Ryanair flight, dump their dog and go home, they are home! That's not pontificating, it's just fact and that's what you are asking everyone to justify.
I know it's highly unlikely, but what if there were a serious accident taking a family illegally to the airport? What if a juggernaut hit you up the **** on the TF1, and a young child you were carrying illegally was left brain damaged for life and uninsured. Can you then justify that by the fact that you "needed" to do it, to feed your family?
It's tough for everyone the world over at the moment, but in order to live in another country, you have to be able to afford it. If you can't, you should go home, or as YG says, try somewhere else. There are far too many people hanging on to life in Tenerife by their fingernails. People who shouldn't be there because they really can't afford it, and at the same time taking food from the mouths of Canarians.
That's not right, no matter how far up the ex-pat scale you may consider yourself!
There are lots of issues at play here. Carpenter, you are obviously not happy at the moment. By your own previous admissions, you are in a place you don't want to be, you have no/little work to feed your family (which you rightly see as your role) and you have the added strains of a new baby. Not really a recipe for happiness.
However, you are asking people to justify the little things you do illegally by the fact that you need to put food on the table, and telling non residents they are not qualified to comment because they "don't know how it is". Both these arguments have huge holes in them.
Firstly, we are all ex-pats. Even when you have lived in Tenerife for donkeys years, you are still an ex-pat, always will be. In your mind there is obviously some kind of hierarchy of ex-pats, but there isn't really, we're all the same - just ask a Canarian. You have chosen to live in a country which is not the place of your birth - not your "homeland". You are not it's citizen, and it has no responsibilities towards you. This is your choice and that's fine, but when you make that choice, that is the bottom line. It is your responsibility to make your living, and feed and provide for your family. By the Spanish Government allowing you to live in their country, there is an implied understanding that this is done legally. If you don't like that fact, then you shouldn't be there - it isn't fair to them or the indigenous population. When you talk of running someone to the airport, it may be something of nothing to you, but you are still taking work from legal Canarian taxi drivers who also have a family to feed. Who's going to feed their families if their income dries up? All because the ex-pat builders/electricians/plumbers are scratching round for work and feel it's justified to pull the rug from under their feet because "they have a family to feed"? They are the indigenous population, they belong there, they have nowhere else to go. They don't have a safety net - it's work or starve. When the going gets really tough they can't just jump on a Ryanair flight, dump their dog and go home, they are home! That's not pontificating, it's just fact and that's what you are asking everyone to justify.
I know it's highly unlikely, but what if there were a serious accident taking a family illegally to the airport? What if a juggernaut hit you up the **** on the TF1, and a young child you were carrying illegally was left brain damaged for life and uninsured. Can you then justify that by the fact that you "needed" to do it, to feed your family?
It's tough for everyone the world over at the moment, but in order to live in another country, you have to be able to afford it. If you can't, you should go home, or as YG says, try somewhere else. There are far too many people hanging on to life in Tenerife by their fingernails. People who shouldn't be there because they really can't afford it, and at the same time taking food from the mouths of Canarians.
That's not right, no matter how far up the ex-pat scale you may consider yourself!
I don't know if this post was by Tom or Sharon, but I have to say that it is a well balanced and thought out post, that to my mind leaves no room for argument. Well done on a sensitive issue.:)
love what you said sharon absolutely spot on, i see it from a canarian view but can see where carpenter is coming from, it is hard on the island has always been, and a lot of canarians are in dire straits some of my husbands family have no jobs losing their homes, it is only a small island and so many people all looking for work.
Tom & Sharon
04-11-2012, 13:00
I don't know if this post was by Tom or Sharon, but I have to say that it is a well balanced and thought out post, that to my mind leaves no room for argument. Well done on a sensitive issue.:)
Sharon
She's normally the gobby one, whilst I'm the sensitive caring type!! ;)
I normally signature my posts to differentiate.
Tom :tiphat:
caroll72
04-11-2012, 15:57
I can see where Carpenter is coming from, having lived on Tenerife for four years, although wev'e now been back in the uk for 18 months. I'd be lying if i said i'd never worked cash in hand. When times are hard, you do what you have to.
There'd been a few 'swallows' who look down their noses at us, most of them though, didn't have a money worry in the world, so as far as i was concerned, may as well been on a different planet.
Some of the longer term members of this forum may remember a long running thread i started about 3 years ago 'Tenerife residents considering returning to the uk'. I spent over 18 months, shall we stay, shall we go. Couldn't make up my mind.
It's hard to know what to do for the best & the problem is, sometimes when you're in Tenerife, you're scared to leave because you're scared of what lies ahead in the uk, so you stay put & make the best of what you've got.
Many friends of ours have also returned home due to no work, businesses going bust, etc, but from what i'm hearing lately, things are getting worse over there now.
Only you can decide Carpenter what's best for you & your family, just don't kid yourself that it's roses back in the uk, because it isn't.
Carolle72, I don't know many 'swallows' but those that I do know never seem to me to, obviously, look down their noses at people living on Tenerife. But, obviously, they do not seem to have a shortage on money, as otherwise they wouldn't be there. Likewise, me as a non-swallow, but a non-resident likewise I'd be expected to be able to afford to come to Tenerife.
Some of the permanent residents I meet sometimes give me a sense of never wishing to go where the tourists go - the 'I'm not one of them' feel. It amuses me, but I can understand that...in central London I could sometimes wish tourists weren't there with an oozi! But it's really not a serious concern either way. The playing field in Tenerife is a little smaller so, I guess, tourists stand out more.
But I think any attitude from holiday makers and 'swallows' is nothing more than being on holiday in a resort area and, for the duration, they want to enjoy themselves and get good service. They - we all know there are economic problems (as if the sustained 1€ pint of lager isn't a giveaway), but if they're in a bar/restaurant most don't want to hear about problems. That, frankly, is the bar/restaurant owner to keep to him/herself.
We also know people who have gone home to the UK and we know they faced difficult decisions. Truly, we know some would prefer to stay on Tenerife. I can foresee others we know who may have to face that choice. We always said that Tenerife was good, so long as you had the income and good health. I now see friends wanting to return to the UK as pensions have shrunk and health has deteriorated and they need the social and medical back up.
It's not good when your hopes and dreams get dashed, but you have to try and try again.
I hope Carpenter doesn't decide to leave the forum as he does have a particular slant that results in entertaining posts.
The same right that gives Tenerife residents (of pensionable age), the right to claim UK fuel allowance...really does my head in that does. One of my members who lives in Tenerife has just posted her thermometer is showing about 26 degrees. I'm scraping frost of the car windscreen over here to go shopping. Doesn't make a lot of sense does it?
An OAP living on my complex, telephoned the UK asking for his cold weather payments to be stopped as he now lives in Tenerife. He was told that these payments could not be stopped as he was entitled to the payment.
He then informed them that there are people in the UK that are in need of extra money to pay bills or buy food for family. ANSWER - That is not our department sir, payment will be made direct to your bank account in Tenerife.
KirstyJay
04-11-2012, 17:46
In answer to the original question, it's quite simple. This is an open forum for both expats and 'swallows' and holiday makers.
As such, they... As members... Are entitled to reply just as you are.
You have as little right to criticise other members about their right to reply on an open forum, as they have to say you have no right to reply.
Either don't read it, or don't reply to it.
chifleta
04-11-2012, 18:00
Don't worry about it - tis just a website. If no one is actually doing you any real harm on here the best thing to do is close it and come back in a few days if it gets you down.
Don't read too much into stuff on here - I used to and I dont any more. Far too many bitter folk who want to put you down, use passive aggressive wording to throw insinuations (especially if you are self employed - lot of jealous type it seems) so I just dont bother too much any more. Its the only practical response :)
Same on most forums, people are very different on the net and even in emails I find, to what they are on the phone and face to face.
problem is you will always get one or two people that think their own opinion is the correct one and then won't back down, and then go on and on and on and on and on until one or the other backs down.... and on and on and on and on to infinity and beyonddddddddddddddddddd :D
cyber arguments are a load of twaddle, except when I want a good laugh at some of the arguing, because it can get pretty pathetic - yup, the best way, if it stresses you out, is turn it off or just don't read the comments from people that annoy you LOL that's what I do :)
- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -
Isn't it strange that the harder you work the luckier you seem to get....:flatcap:
not always :) i'm out of work and feel at this time of my life i'm the luckiest i've ever been ......... but I do know i'm one of the few lucky ones here at the moment because of personal circumstances thankfully ... but then, i've been here a long time, had the hard times, had the worse times, and at the moment life is fab.
I just hope Carpenter and everyone else that's struggling over here can turn things around ASAP - think positive - even when you're looking for a job you need to be positive, even when you're talking to others (who, you never know, may be possible future employers) be positive, because if you act a miserable git, people won't want to know you.
Sorry Carpenter, that You feel that way.
People will defend Themselves if attacked, and I really thought there was no malice implied or intended in ANY Post.
We all take knocks in Life, and sometimes for the sake of Our Families if not Ourselves, take it on the Chin.
You were being offered an opportunity before. I hope You at least look into it.
I also hope Youi reconsider after the Dust has settled, to post again.
You attacked, We defended, but truly, NO ONE has fallen out with You.!
KirstyJay
05-11-2012, 14:42
As this is a forum and the definition of a forum is a place where people can discuss topics, anyone who is a member on this forum has the right to reply to any thread regardless of whether anyone else considers that they are qualified to do so.
As members of this forum, expat or not, everyone is entitled to voice their opinion as long as it's within the rules of the forum. If you don't agree with the replies you are just as entitled to say so... but you can't dictate who can and cannot reply to a topic. It's an open forum, and as such, it's open to reply from anyone that feels they have something to say. :)
I don't agree with everything that people say on here... but they still have the right to say it.
Sundowner
05-11-2012, 14:58
As this is a forum and the definition of a forum is a place where people can discuss topics, anyone who is a member on this forum has the right to reply to any thread regardless of whether anyone else considers that they are qualified to do so.
As members of this forum, expat or not, everyone is entitled to voice their opinion as long as it's within the rules of the forum. If you don't agree with the replies you are just as entitled to say so... but you can't dictate who can and cannot reply to a topic. It's an open forum, and as such, it's open to reply from anyone that feels they have something to say.
I don't agree with everything that people say on here... but they still have the right to say it.
But would you defend to the death their right to say it?
But would you defend to the death their right to say it?
You're not allowed to say that...:laugh:
Malteser Monkey
05-11-2012, 15:42
But would you defend to the death their right to say it?
depends how they say it:D
I bet Carpenter is still peeking at the thread though lol
RETEPYELKNIRB
05-11-2012, 16:54
Malteser Monkey is correct.Opinions are like belly buttons,we all have one but they don't hold much water!
Malteser Monkey
05-11-2012, 16:56
Malteser Monkey is correct.Opinions are like belly buttons,we all have one but they don't hold much water!
Blimey am I ? There's a first time for everything
partial to a few chocolate buttons:yum:
Sorry but there is one point that's been overlooked in all this.
Spain is one of the countries on the verge of bankruptcy and this is due in no small part to the black economy that is rife in Tenerife. Why should we non residents have to pay to balance Spain's books through our UK taxes when there are people in Tenerife who are not paying their way through taxes but are also claiming benefit.
Non residents have every right to complain - it is they who are picking up the bill
Fivepence
05-11-2012, 19:59
Sorry but there is one point that's been overlooked in all this.
Spain is one of the countries on the verge of bankruptcy and this is due in no small part to the black economy that is rife in Tenerife. Why should we non residents have to pay to balance Spain's books through our UK taxes when there are people in Tenerife who are not paying their way through taxes but are also claiming benefit.
Non residents have every right to complain - it is they who are picking up the bill
I don't think it was the black economy that was to blame Dipper, all countries have a black economy.
It have been reported numerous times that Spain's problem arose from the property and construction industries.
I don't think it was the black economy that was to blame Dipper, all countries have a black economy.
It have been reported numerous times that Spain's problem arose from the property and construction industries.
Or, "Who stole the Pies", sorry couldnt resist....lol
Fivepence
05-11-2012, 21:00
Or, "Who stole the Pies", sorry couldnt resist....lol
Off topic but you're right Warbey, we do have a pie economy here in Wigan! :ashamed:
Off topic but you're right Warbey, we do have a pie economy here in Wigan! :ashamed:
You're only trying to make a crust........:laugh:
KirstyJay
05-11-2012, 21:04
But would you defend to the death their right to say it?
depends how they say it:D
I agree with MM. I wouldn't go so far as to defend it to my death... but as long as it does not harm anyone or deliberately flame and provoke, I can't see why people should not be entitled to reply to any topic on here. Resident or not.
Fivepence
05-11-2012, 21:06
You're only trying to make a crust........:laugh:
Ha Ha, I like it .................:c2:
Off topic but you're right Warbey, we do have a pie economy here in Wigan! :ashamed:
And Greenbelt too, at Springs Branch.?
Hang on, What was the Topic.. Death before dishonour. I blame LUCKY, I'm going daft..
slodgedad
05-11-2012, 22:11
In reply to the original question, does this mean that no one can have an opinion on anywhere unlesss they have lived there?
If so, in future we are only allowed to talk about personal experiences and nothing else.
Surely that would be a conversation killer in all walks of life (unless you are a Sun reporter or reader)
Ecky Thump
05-11-2012, 22:34
In reply to the original question, does this mean that no one can have an opinion on anywhere unlesss they have lived there?
If so, in future we are only allowed to talk about personal experiences and nothing else.
Surely that would be a conversation killer in all walks of life (unless you are a Sun reporter or reader)
Some folk only want to hear other peoples opinions, when they coincide with their opinions. ;)
And Greenbelt too, at Springs Branch.?
Hang on, What was the Topic.. Death before dishonour. I blame LUCKY, I'm going daft..
:feret:No.....No you have come the correct place for a second opion i have gone daft ...... are you coming to join me?:flatcap::feret:
Malteser Monkey
06-11-2012, 10:09
I agree with MM. I wouldn't go so far as to defend it to my death... but as long as it does not harm anyone or deliberately flame and provoke, I can't see why people should not be entitled to reply to any topic on here. Resident or not.
Blimey twice in one thread - I need a lie down
morning everyone
Surely everyone has a right to a personal opinion, but its just rather frustrating when people have strong opinions and wont listen to anybody elses thoughts on the subject.
My favourite frustration is the taxes non residents pay here and yet if the Spanish or Canarians come to the UK they dont appear to have to pay an equivalent tax, the 'non letting tax' I'm thinking about. This may be incorrect, however, because I do not have any foreign friends in the UK who could put me right and I'm not a tax accountant!
Perhaps someone on the forum knows!
To say something is illegal, when it is, is not preaching to say so......its just factual.
One of the points that you are making is the use of illegal taxis and you say it helps "struggling" expats, what about the expat who is a legal taxi driver.....does it help him if others are not legal with the correct car insurance use their cars for airport transfers?
This also can and does apply, where Joe Bloggs (struggling ex pat) does electrical or gas repairs etc. without the correct legal requirements.
These laws help and protect us holiday makers and expats alike!!
If you want to preach that it is OK to break the law of the country (Paradise Island) where you have chosen to live, then expect others to respond to what you have written on a open forum.
Or a Canarian or Spanish taxi driver who having paid all their overheads then have to watch illegal Brits/Germans/Russians doing illegal transfers to the airport.
KirstyJay
07-11-2012, 00:04
Or a Canarian or Spanish taxi driver who having paid all their overheads then have to watch illegal Brits/Germans/Russians doing illegal transfers to the airport.Or people that pay their autonomo and have a legal business, only to be undercut by illegal workers... I was once called on my mobile by an English person in the area that saw my number advertised on my car. She asked me for a job, but I didn't have one available for her. After telling her this, she then had the audacity to ask me what I charged!.... :rolleyes: I pay autonomo and rental for my premises. I am also fully qualified and insured. ;) :)
RETEPYELKNIRB
07-11-2012, 09:50
You're only trying to make a crust........:laugh:
Pernaps he kneads the dough!
Pernaps he kneads the dough!
I hope this reply means You are Backwards Peter......:confused::wave:
RETEPYELKNIRB
07-11-2012, 23:23
Cover blown?
About time if got a lighter note live and let live,i think to many people are worrying about what other people are doing instead of just getting on with they own life's.
Maybe he's just making a little bread soz just had to lol
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