View Full Version : Tax Who's paying their annual fiscal obligation in Tenerife?
princessmonika
23-12-2012, 09:37
how many people are not paying the the fiscal none resident annual tax??? i believe the tax people are sending out letters ,to pay that tax..they will go back 4 years - fines will be applicable--
canary dweller
23-12-2012, 09:54
how many people are not paying the the fiscal none resident annual tax??? i believe the tax people are sending out letters ,to pay that tax..they will go back 4 years - fines will be applicable--
And a Merry Christmas to you as well !
Are you a traffic warden, by any chance?
I didn't think that I would have to pay none resident tax this year, as I none have residencia, but..........:cry:
candy2411
23-12-2012, 12:02
how many people are not paying the the fiscal none resident annual tax??? i believe the tax people are sending out letters ,to pay that tax..they will go back 4 years - fines will be applicable--
hope the fines are not on the scale of those mentioned in the Illegal lettings thread!!
Norm de Plume
23-12-2012, 15:43
Don't worry. The Spanish Government don't want or need your money and have made it practically impossible to pay it. You can now only do it on line but the system will not accept Internet Explorer or Firefox. I spent 4 hours before trying Google Chrome. Then the bank could not accept it. After a trip to La Laguna (another 3 hours) I was told to use the old etiquetas, Still would not work at the bank. I have ended up sending the whole thing off to AEAT in Santa Cruz with a cheque which still has not been presented after 3 weeks.
My complaint to the Spanish Ombudsman still awaits an answer!
What a joke.
I use cls at Las Chifiras not cheap for them to do the paper work but at least it gets paid.
princessmonika
23-12-2012, 16:56
yes i have a notary to do it for me 89 euro plus tax
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it is due every year end of december
DonnaFranka
23-12-2012, 19:12
Any accountant/assessor will do it. Mine charges 70 Euros. I have been told that if you speak Spanish then a Spanish accountant is cheaper.
princessmonika
24-12-2012, 09:05
hi donna can you pm me .who you are using monika
Yes I use an accountant, have to pay but that!s how it goes. You will have to pay it sometime, they will catch up with you.
Maybe when you sell.
Norm de Plume
24-12-2012, 12:44
I spent some time a few years ago persuading Brussels that it was discriminatory to have to pay "a resident fiscal representative" to submit our comparatively simple tax returns. I'm d....d if I'm going to start paying someone now. It's up to the overpaid Spanish jobsworths to get it right if they want my money! They have my cheque and my return.
princessmonika
24-12-2012, 15:13
i only bought the house a year and half ago approx., so i am getting it sorted on the 8th jan :agree:
malagabob
28-12-2012, 12:34
Nome de Plume I have sent you a PM
tonythorne
29-12-2012, 11:46
I paid mine a couple of weeks ago, via the OneStopProblem shop, here in Playa de la Arena! Excellent value.
princessmonika
30-12-2012, 08:49
you have to pay now, not any longer when you sell -- the tax people are sending out letters to every home owner ---fiscal residents and none fiscal residents-- they now want the money up front-- new rules--
Goldenmaniac
31-12-2012, 14:16
you have to pay now, not any longer when you sell -- the tax people are sending out letters to every home owner ---fiscal residents and none fiscal residents-- they now want the money up front-- new rules--
Same rules as always - now they're just getting more efficient at enforcing them!
shows how mad the government is... a tax for NON Letting then they send inspectors round to fine you for letting!!!!!! crazy.
Yes I use an accountant, have to pay but that!s how it goes. You will have to pay it sometime, they will catch up with you.
Maybe when you sell.
Interested in who your "accountant" is, or are they just a Gestor.
princessmonika
31-12-2012, 21:33
not any longer ,when you sell, they now want it up front, and they now get it of you 4 years back-- you will get a letter in the post
At the chance of sounding a little stupid, but what is this tax and do i have to pay it. I bought a 1 bed 2 years ago but dont rent it out at all. No one told me about this tax i do pay one registration thing to the bank think its every 2 years something to do with non residence i think is that the same thing.
essexeddie
01-01-2013, 21:36
Been paying it for the past 25 years
I use Marcos Cabrera, Los Cristianos.
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None letting tax has been around for years.
Its around 100€ a year, but the accountant charges you about the same just to pay it.
The wonderful Diana at One Stop Problem Shop organises ours for us with no hassle and much less charge than our accountants used to.
princessmonika
02-01-2013, 08:35
what will happen, if you DON'T pay the none resident or resident tax???????????
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also this fiscal tax , when you buy, is never mentioned by the estate agent-- i think that is wrong ---
candy2411
02-01-2013, 09:30
to be fair, the estate agents job is to sell properties...so it is not surprising the tax implications are not high in the sales pitch.
Far more disconcerting than the annual tax obligation though is the Inheritance Tax ......nobody mentions that either!
But shouldnt your solicitor tell you about this tax, if he is worth his salt anyway they get paid enough.
princessmonika
02-01-2013, 17:16
yes my solicitor did all my taxes, so i am ok
Looks like im gonna have to have a chat to mine when i return, what exactly is this tax for. For a supposed tax free island they seem to have quite a lot of taxes.
Goldenmaniac
05-01-2013, 12:52
what will happen, if you DON'T pay the none resident or resident tax???????????
--
The tax office can go back up to 4 tax years and reclaim unpaid taxes - with computerisation and better organisation this is becoming easier for them to do than it historically was - plus because of the "Crisis" they are looking at every income stream no matter how small.
If you are caught there are fines and possibly interest to put on top of the unpaid taxes. Stage one is normally a letter that says something like "according to our records you do not appear to have paid 2008/9/10/11's Non resident taxes" (2011 is only a few days overdue so is not likely to be chased just yet) Non response to this gets you a more severe letter saying you owe so much including fines/interest and then if you still don't comply they issue an embargo against any registered assets you have in Spain ie money in a bank account/ Car /Boat or against the property itself - to get to embargo stage is quite a long process and you have to ignore quite a lot of letters - but the problem is that many people's contact info at the Spanish tax office is incorrect so they never even receive the letters, or they are not on the island when the recorded delivery slip is left.
If the tax office is unable to deliver a notification then the info is published in the BOC (Boletin ) and you are deemed to have been "served"
Looks like im gonna have to have a chat to mine when i return, what exactly is this tax for. For a supposed tax free island they seem to have quite a lot of taxes.
Have a look here http://www.agenciatributaria.es/AEAT.internet/Inicio_en_GB/English/Non_residents/Non_resident_Income_Tax/Non_resident_Income_Tax.shtml
and here
http://www.diana-mcglone.com/Non-Resident-Home-Owners-and-Annual-Property-Taxes.htm#Nonrestaxspain
princessmonika
05-01-2013, 12:59
thank you goldenmaniac -- i have paid my none resident tax , just wanting to know, if you don't -- so all is ok on my front:cheers2:
I quite agree. They are a fiscal joke throughtout Spain....screw the foreigner, yet let their own get away with it.
shows how mad the government is... a tax for NON Letting then they send inspectors round to fine you for letting!!!!!! crazy.
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We use Cabrera also. It takes a lot of weight off just having everything dealt with properly.
Been paying it for the past 25 years
I use Marcos Cabrera, Los Cristianos.
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None letting tax has been around for years.
Its around 100€ a year, but the accountant charges you about the same just to pay it.
I paid mine a couple of weeks ago, via the OneStopProblem shop, here in Playa de la Arena! Excellent value.
Would you please pm me with details of the One Stop Problem Shop and how much did their services cost?
Thanks a millionrolleyes2:
princessmonika
06-01-2013, 09:03
my solicitor charged me 64 euro including taxes --sorry plus the none resident tax which was 110 euro
Would you please pm me with details of the One Stop Problem Shop and how much did their services cost?
Thanks a millionrolleyes2:
diana-mcglone.com -
Only in Spain I guess how can they tell me I can’t rent it out or they will fine me but then tax me on the assumption that I could rent it out seems nuts to me. I generate no revenue as I don’t rent it out but I have to pay tax on that zero revenue not only that I have to pay someone to fill in the form for me to make sure it’s done right. Surely there is a challenge here somewhere, someone out there who is clever enough to challenge how you can pay tax on zero income. This tax just seems crazy to me for a supposed cheaper way of life i seem to be paying an awful lot of different registration fees and taxes and an extra 200e bill is nothing to be sniffed at. They want foreign people to in vest and buy property to keep the economy driving forward then they penalise them with taxes like this. Is this legal to charge taxes on zero income i suppose it must be in Spain.
I dont think its the law that you have to pay someone to do it. I think you can do it yourself but is it worth the hassle?
'non letting tax' is an English translation remember, I doubt they call it that!
I think France tax non residents a lot more dont they?
I am having tax issues relating to the Tax office saying I bought my apartment too cheap! and they have revalued it and I have to pay them nearly 1000.00 euros tax for the difference in their valuation.I paid the market value and would not have bought the apartment at their price,its a rip off and I am appealling through a solicitor,which gets me back to the thread as when discussing this issue he raised the matter of non residents tax and was I up to date,I told him I had never heard of it and why am I being taxed for not earning! as I dont rent it out,a double tax WAMMY,but he said I just have to pay it as it would be too costly to appeal.The tax bods are really looking in every nook & cranny to get the country out of the s**t but its the foreigners that seem to be the easy targets and being told just to pay up!Maybe I should have just rented instead of getting all this hassle!But I love the place so will just moan and bloody pay up,Ba Humbug,back out end of month,cant wait. Happy New Year!:bootyshake:
princessmonika
06-01-2013, 13:25
well i wonder , if spanish people who have a holiday home, and only use the place a few month per year, i am sure they have to pay the same??? how can one find out?? or not because they are residents of spain????????
The point was i am now going to have to pay someone to do something for me that i should not have to be paying in the first place, just to avoid getting in further trouble. Fair enough if you are renting then you pay tax on what you get but to have to pay tax when you aint renting is bs. Seems more like an intimidation tax to me, threaten someone with heavy fines if they dont pay on something they should not be paying to start with f****** ball**. But like whats been said i love the place so will just pay up doesnt make it right though.
princessmonika
06-01-2013, 14:41
It would be good, someone with a lot of money to take them on, or maybe not
Norm de Plume
06-01-2013, 15:06
I have taken them on. I complained that it was discriminatory to Brussels, who disagreed and said it applied as much to non-resident Spaniards as to others. However, I wonder how many non-resident Spaniards there are who still own a property in Spain?
Goldenmaniac
06-01-2013, 19:20
well i wonder , if spanish people who have a holiday home, and only use the place a few month per year, i am sure they have to pay the same??? how can one find out?? or not because they are residents of spain????????
Yes a second home for a Fiscal Resident of Spain of any nationality is taxed on a deemed income value - the only difference is that this is part of their annual declaration de la renta so becomes part of a larger calculation
Norm de Plume start a petition for non residents get people to sign, open up the topic on other Spanish forums for others who have property all over Spain for all people outside of Spain to sign lets all get together and start a revolt maybe it will get headline news in U.K about non residents getting ripped off with this tax, maybe get the Spanish to rethink their policy because the publicity not going to help future sales is it. Come on Norm let’s get at them let’s put up a fight you could be our Che, this i think is a serious issue.
Norm de Plume
08-01-2013, 15:09
Please feel free. I have a headache from banging my head against the proverbial for many years.
Hi all. New member here. I've been paying the non-resident tax via a gestoria for a few years but I'm going to try and do it myself on-line in the next few days. I was paying more for the gestoria than I was paying in tax and the forms he fills in are simple. For those less daring, I saw an advert in our owner's office for www.spanishtaxforms.co.uk who say they will do it for £24.95 per property - I haven't used them.
A question please - I've been telling a friend who has been a non-renting, non-resident for 10 years about the tax and he hadn't heard about it and hasn't (to date) had any letters. Can anyone tell me how long the tax has been going and is he liable for all of that time or only the last four years? Also, if he went forward voluntarily, would he still be liable for interest and non-payment penalties?
Thanks in anticipation.
Halli
princessmonika
08-01-2013, 17:11
my solicitor charged me 64 euro including vat or what they call it over here
Has anyone had any experience with this company www.spanishtaxforms.co.uk seems a very good price to what has been quoted on here so far.
I have just looked at the link above and it strikes me that their FAQS area is a bit out of date.
Good price though, but is it as easy as we do the form send it to you and you 'just take it to the bank'?....not according to 'norm de plume' on the first page of this thread!
But if you fill in the form, have proof of payment for the amount due isnt that all you need. Surely its then up to them to cash up the said payment, if they decide to take their time over raising the payment you made that is their fault that just seems the Spanish way to drag their feet over everything. I dont know
angiebabes
09-01-2013, 15:03
Golden maniac - can I ask you please - if I ask you to complete my tax return for this tax on a yearly basis will you then become my agent, and would you then be liable to the taxman if my return/payment was found to be incorrect? At present Juan Carlos in Los Gigantes does ours and undertakes to "carry the can" if it goes wrong!
Goldenmaniac
09-01-2013, 18:45
I could become your fiscal representative but since the 2007 rules changes, there is no longer any obligation for you to have one unless you want to and for a single property it is often overkill - I am quite often the contact address for clients so that any letters from the tax office don't lay unopened for months - a different matter.
The only way it could "go wrong" would be if I made an calculation error - unlikely because it's relatively simple set of calculations, but not impossible - I'm not infallible, or if I had received the funds and did not pay before the cut-off date (which would actually be fraud :( ) Either way if the error were mine then of course I would be responsible.
If however the "going wrong" were the result of an untrue statement on your part or your error in the information given to me, or the returns were prepared and delivered to you in good time, but you didn't pay them through the bank before the cut off date - and you got fined for late presentation - then no of course not, that would be your responsibility - and I think you might find Juan Carlos' all encompassing guarantee operates under the same terms :)
candy2411
09-01-2013, 19:49
[QUOTE=Halli;251471]
A question please - I've been telling a friend who has been a non-renting, non-resident for 10 years about the tax and he hadn't heard about it and hasn't (to date) had any letters. Can anyone tell me how long the tax has been going and is he liable for all of that time or only the last four years? Also, if he went forward voluntarily, would he still be liable for interest and non-payment penalties?
anyone able to answer this question....would guess a lot of people are wondering!!.
I have a 1 bed in Torviscas area anyone know who i could use to fill in these forms near to us and speak english and also what are their costs could start a list going so other non residents could compare, it would be usefull to all if you have any info save a lot of tiresome research trying to find someone. If it helps a fellow member its got to be good.
[QUOTE=Halli;251471]
A question please - I've been telling a friend who has been a non-renting, non-resident for 10 years about the tax and he hadn't heard about it and hasn't (to date) had any letters. Can anyone tell me how long the tax has been going and is he liable for all of that time or only the last four years? Also, if he went forward voluntarily, would he still be liable for interest and non-payment penalties?
anyone able to answer this question....would guess a lot of people are wondering!!.
I know of a few people who have had holiday homes here for longer than I have lived here (8yrs) they have never paid this non-residents tax either! If they got a bill I'm sure they would pay it!
Tom & Sharon
10-01-2013, 15:05
And what if you are resident, but non-fiscally resident?
bonitatime
10-01-2013, 15:13
And what if you are resident, but non-fiscally resident?
This isnt a legal option.
Tom & Sharon
10-01-2013, 16:12
This isnt a legal option.
To be a resident you only have to spend more than 3 months a year in Spain - that's a legal requirement. That doesn't mean to say that you are fiscally resident - that your income is generated in Spain, or that you don't spend the other 9 months of the year living and working in the UK, which would be classed as your main home.
Goldenmaniac
10-01-2013, 16:20
Quote Originally Posted by Tom & Sharon View Post
And what if you are resident, but non-fiscally resident?
This isnt a legal option.
Well actually it is possible but only in one particular tax year not as an ongoing situation..
e.g
Mr and Mrs Jones from the UK arrive in Tenerife on the 2 Jan - as they intend to stay for at least 5 months (longer than 90 days) they obey immigration law here and they apply for a certificate of residencia (green paper card) complying with all health entitlement and income regulations in force.
At the end of May they decide that they will be returning to the UK on the 12 June so go to the Extranjeria to Baja (revoke) their green certificate cards.
They return to the UK and do not come back to anywhere in Spain until January of the following year.
So they have been legal residents in Spain from Jan 2 to 11 June 162 days but have not exceeded the rule of thumb 183 days which would tip them over the balance of a half year and so be required to become fiscal residents (Remember Spanish Tax year is Jan to Dec)
In reality what normally happens is that people don't bother to get the green certificate if they are not intending to stay permanently as they don't want the hassle of revoking it again. Plus they often don't want their home country to know that they are away for more than 90 days at a time.
If you visit in stretches that don't exceed 90 days at a time and don't add up over the course of the Calendar year to 183 days or more then there is no legal requirement to apply for immigration residencia anyway.
Tom & Sharon
10-01-2013, 17:16
Well actually it is possible but only in one particular tax year not as an ongoing situation..
e.g
Mr and Mrs Jones from the UK arrive in Tenerife on the 2 Jan - as they intend to stay for at least 5 months (longer than 90 days) they obey immigration law here and they apply for a certificate of residencia (green paper card) complying with all health entitlement and income regulations in force.
At the end of May they decide that they will be returning to the UK on the 12 June so go to the Extranjeria to Baja (revoke) their green certificate cards.
They return to the UK and do not come back to anywhere in Spain until January of the following year.
So they have been legal residents in Spain from Jan 2 to 11 June 162 days but have not exceeded the rule of thumb 183 days which would tip them over the balance of a half year and so be required to become fiscal residents (Remember Spanish Tax year is Jan to Dec)
In reality what normally happens is that people don't bother to get the green certificate if they are not intending to stay permanently as they don't want the hassle of revoking it again. Plus they often don't want their home country to know that they are away for more than 90 days at a time.
If you visit in stretches that don't exceed 90 days at a time and don't add up over the course of the Calendar year to 183 days or more then there is no legal requirement to apply for immigration residencia anyway.
Aaaah, so the 90 day thing is "at any one time" and not "in any one year" ?
Let me ask this then -
Mr and Mrs Jones own a property in Tenerife and also one in the UK. Mr. Jones is fiscally resident in the UK, as he works there for 9 months of the year and pays his taxes there. He spends 3 months per year in his home in Tenerife, but not in a single block. Mrs. Jones does not work in either Tenerife or the UK. She has no income of her own and therefore pays no tax in either country. Because she has more leisure time than Mr. Jones, she spends more time in Tenerife than Mr. Jones - 183 days per year or more. Therefore the property is jointly owned by one resident and one non-resident. How does that affect the scenario of non resident tax?
Goldenmaniac
10-01-2013, 18:05
Assuming they are EU citizens? Then the question to ask is does her home country consider her to be a fiscal resident there? which from the brief scenario and the husband's circumstances - I would suspect they do. If that is the case she will be able to provide a Fiscal Resident's certificate obtained from the UK for presentation in Spain as required and be considered a NON FISCAL resident and liable to her half of any Non residents property taxes - remember the 183 day rule is a rule of thumb and a fairly simplistic criteria which while very helpful, may also be affected by other personal circumstances.
She will not be able to obtain a fiscal residency certificate from Spain because she will never have submitted a declaracion de la Renta here.
Re immigration residency what she really should do is revoke (baja) any green certificate card in her possession obtained because she was staying more than 90 days on each occasion she returns to the UK and then apply again if returning for another longer than 90 day period and so on. In reality this doesn't happen and as long as the person concerned doesn't "bother Spain" ie state health care or state schooling (new applications) "Spain doesn't bother them :)"
What might be a problem for Mrs Jones is the UK's own residency rules and provision for health care in the UK
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/movingabroad/Pages/Livingabroad.aspx The NHS is a residence-based healthcare system. Therefore, once you have moved permanently away from the UK you are no longer entitled to medical treatment under normal NHS rules.
You must notify your former GP so that you and your family can be removed from the NHS register.
You will also no longer be entitled to use your UK-issued European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) to access healthcare abroad.
It may therefore not be at all convenient for Mrs Jones to be considered Non resident in the UK and Resident in Spain (either for immigration or Fiscal purposes).
This is a hugely complicated subject which I am attempting to simplify to illustrate some points, but one should always check out their OWN personal circumstances with the country they leave as well as the country they come to.
Tom & Sharon
11-01-2013, 10:16
What triggers a non-resident tax bill?
If there is a household with residents in it, holders of a green certificate, what would make the Hacienda issue a bill for non-resident tax?
I am a retired resident in Tenerife, I made a tax return in 2011 with nothing to pay. As i now have a pension and will need to pay Spanish tax on it. I have sent the form Spain-Individual to the Delegacion De Hacienda to claim relief at source from UK income tax over a month ago. As yet they have not returned the signed form, does anybody know how long this process usually takes?
Goldenmaniac
11-01-2013, 19:47
I am a retired resident in Tenerife, I made a tax return in 2011 with nothing to pay. As i now have a pension and will need to pay Spanish tax on it. I have sent the form Spain-Individual to the Delegacion De Hacienda to claim relief at source from UK income tax over a month ago. As yet they have not returned the signed form, does anybody know how long this process usually takes?
You would do better to go in in person if you can which is what I normally do for clients - they are likely to request supporting documentation ie Pension letters P60 if applicable etc etc, once the Hacienda has checked things and is happy usually a week(ish) for hand delivered requests then the Spain-Individual form is stamped and handed over on your return.
I have never posted this so don't know how long it may take that way - but your main difficulty is you will have no proof of submitting it as you would have had you done it in person and got an entry stamp.
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What triggers a non-resident tax bill?
If there is a household with residents in it, holders of a green certificate, what would make the Hacienda issue a bill for non-resident tax?
An entry in the Catastral porperty register which was not matched to a residents declaración de la renta. That might in some circumstances be disproved for what ever reason but that would be the trigger.
princessmonika
14-01-2013, 12:08
who is the best and cheapest accountant in or around las chafiras ?
who is the best and cheapest accountant in or around las chafiras ?
That's an oxymoron isn't it?
Certainly with accounts you want "an accountant" not a gestor - big difference. Most Gestors understand how to fill in the online form, but do not understand nor actually do accounts.
(sits back waiting for barrage...)
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