View Full Version : The Tenerife illegal lettings thread
Although I know that the tourist board will go its own way, we should maybe try to find a solution that is workable for (almost) everybody. My idea is the following: ......The sole agent continues to be obligatory and will be elected for a period of 2 years and shall require a favourable vote of 50% of the proprietors that also represent 50% of the participation quota. This way the power of the sole agents will be reduced significantly and can be removed much more easily.
Rene - Where does the "elected for a period of 2 years" come from - is that a "suggestion" that you are making?.
Also getting "50% of the participation quota" could be quite difficult, as I know there is a lot of apathy when it comes to voting at an AGM or EGM, and you are lucky to get 25% of the total co-efficient - even counting all the proxy votes. I am not exactly sure what you mean by "paticipation quota" - are you referring to "total co-efficient", or just 50% of those who have bothered to vote?
[/COLOR]
Rene - Where does the "elected for a period of 2 years" come from - is that a "suggestion" that you are making?.
Also getting "50% of the participation quota" could be quite difficult, as I know there is a lot of apathy when it comes to voting at an AGM or EGM, and you are lucky to get 25% of the total co-efficient - even counting all the proxy votes. I am not exactly sure what you mean by "paticipation quota" - are you referring to "total co-efficient", or just 50% of those who have bothered to vote?
Yes that is Renés "suggestion"
Getting 50% of the participation quota is more or less what is around now 50% + 1, another reason for a sole agent is because of what you have just said, it's difficult.
Angusjim
28-12-2013, 09:50
I would of thought every tourist destination would have benefited in some way, we arent going to see a massive change.
Please dont forget to answer my replies to your questions.
- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -
There you go
Don't know if Thomson owned all,so you think the Government knew nothing about the " illegal " letting get real they knew but decided to do nothing until the biscuit tin was empty
We all no there is real option to revert back to Touristic on most complexes thats not going to happen
But the government do have the right if they have the will they did not have the will because everything was rosy in the garden at that time
You seem to have a major issue with swallows if owners on complexes are in agreement that it is OK to rent out to swallows for extended periods of time basically shorter long rentals agreements whats wrong with this
I can tell you it will be quieter on the complex than having workers coming home at 2.00 /3.00 am clumping around till around 4.00am as I can testify from Ocean Park. Times are changing and more retired people want to stay in the sun why not adapt to accept them and maybe steal a march on other countries by having " swallow" only type complexes. You could maybe also answer questions fully not just give little snippets. Anyway I am off to do some work to pay for my next holiday in Tenerife :hello:
Jim you continue to make stuff up
Show me the post/s where i have a major issue with swallows.
Swallows are not residents they are tourists simple as that. If they are not going to enjoy tourist facilities then give them a 6 month contract.
So we get a couple of swallow only type complexes luckily they are full for 4 months of the year and then what ?
Is Your question this one, the one without a question mark ?
Is it possible to fly to Tenerife 1st class or business class or do they join the priority boarding queue to start off their luxury holiday.
You'll know how to use Google yeah?
Curiously quite of few of 9 plus posts there were a bit on the long side. Given the odd return of that offensive poster the other day might be a ghost poster on 9 plus at work here?
Who is the offensive poster and the secret membership you refer to ?
JPtenerife ? do you think he is Loaded ?
Maybe Fonica is me, cause i'd need another account to say what i really wanted to say
pfft
delderek
28-12-2013, 12:15
Blimey how did this thread come alive again? Hasn't everything been said and repeated and repeated in the 8760 posts. Things are what they are and they "aint gonna change" whatever God you prey to, or whatever side of the fence your'e on.:doh:
If not convinced that thing will stay the same, maybe read this:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/rental-ban-to-end-berlins-reign-as-holiday-lets-capital-9027655.html
And you thought 18000 euros was tough!
I already said the canary Islands are leading the way for tourism, a model that many other regions and countries are looking into.
Blimey how did this thread come alive again? Hasn't everything been said and repeated and repeated in the 8760 posts. Things are what they are and they "aint gonna change" whatever God you prey to, or whatever side of the fence your'e on.:doh:
If not convinced that thing will stay the same, maybe read this:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/rental-ban-to-end-berlins-reign-as-holiday-lets-capital-9027655.html
And you thought 18000 euros was tough!
the thread continues until the matter is resolved for the better. New things come along, we have been talking about berlin paris restrictions for some days. Capital city restrictions are not the same as tourist zones. What is a big positive in the berlin / paris proposed restrictions is that there is a clear acceptance that a 30 day plus stay is ok and legal in any residential property. That in itself is great news for canary renters in residential complex, thats the swallow market sorted.
This matter is not going to end in daft anti competitive restrictions with high fines throughout europe, that would be absurd. reality and commonsense will inevitable win the day, human affairs evolve for the good , justice always prevails against tyranny.
When 9 plus sarcastically declares that the odd, mad canary model is going to be copied world wide , well its as daft as the old south african aparthied govt standing up and saying, dont panic about Nelson Mandela with his one man one vote ideas, the rest of the world will surely adopt our system.
All this activity in other parts of europe about letting will only help to bring about a sensible legal format for it europe wide. The internet ad companies will have to get involved, silent as they have been in the canary mess. Just like the canary govts inspectors and massive fines, its all part of the inevitable sorting out of the situation along sensible lines.
delderek
28-12-2013, 15:02
the thread continues until the matter is resolved for the better. New things come along, we have been talking about berlin paris restrictions for some days. Capital city restrictions are not the same as tourist zones. What is a big positive in the berlin / paris proposed restrictions is that there is a clear acceptance that a 30 day plus stay is ok and legal in any residential property. That in itself is great news for canary renters in residential complex, thats the swallow market sorted.
This matter is not going to end in daft anti competitive restrictions with high fines throughout europe, that would be absurd. reality and commonsense will inevitable win the day, human affairs evolve for the good , justice always prevails against tyranny.
When 9 plus sarcastically declares that the odd, mad canary model is going to be copied world wide , well its as daft as the old south african aparthied govt standing up and saying, dont panic about Nelson Mandela with his one man one vote ideas, the rest of the world will surely adopt our system.
All this activity in other parts of europe about letting will only help to bring about a sensible legal format for it europe wide. The internet ad companies will have to get involved, silent as they have been in the canary mess. Just like the canary govts inspectors and massive fines, its all part of the inevitable sorting out of the situation along sensible lines.
But surely "swallows" stay for at least 90 days, so can stay on residential complexes if they wish. 30 days may indeed be more sensible, but its still going to deny the average (7/14 day) tourist the right to stay on a residential complex. Which is what Berlin for instance is trying to stop.
Port Royal is a residential plot ......
Well I never knew that!
Have seen it advertised regularly and had a wander round when staying at the Hollywood Mirage and with the reception area etc. always thought it was touristic.
Probably explains why the apartments are relatively cheap when for sale - I always thought it was because they are so far up the hill!
#learnsomethingneweveryday
But surely "swallows" stay for at least 90 days, so can stay on residential complexes if they wish. 30 days may indeed be more sensible, but its still going to deny the average (7/14 day) tourist the right to stay on a residential complex. Which is what Berlin for instance is trying to stop.
well lets just be grateful for a 30 day legal booking, its a start, there are a great many customers who take these long stays, ideal for residential sites
karinagal
28-12-2013, 17:00
well lets just be grateful for a 30 day legal booking, its a start, there are a great many customers who take these long stays, ideal for residential sites
Don't let yourself get carried away Nelson, it's far from being implemented any time soon......!
Don't let yourself get carried away Nelson, it's far from being implemented any time soon......!
I would never get carried away, but everything is moving in the right direction, the inevitable conclusion to normality and common sense. Of course this will take time but the eventual outcome is not at all in doubt.
And for 30 day plus stays to be accepted as legal in residential properties is a great forward step for many residential renters in the canaries.
I don't see that there is any difference whatsoever between the idea of short stay tourism in European cities or the Canaries. The bottom line is that anywhere there are residents, uncontrolled short term letting can be, and often is, disruptive on those folk who live in an area year in year out.
Rather than believing things are changing for the direction you wish to see, I would quickly open your eyes to the reality - whether it be Berlin or Los Cristianos, far from legislation being relaxed, much much more is on the way. Can't see the EU doing much about it either, especially considering one of the driving forces here is Germany.
I don't see that there is any difference whatsoever between the idea of short stay tourism in European cities or the Canaries. The bottom line is that anywhere there are residents, uncontrolled short term letting can be, and often is, disruptive on those folk who live in an area year in year out.
Rather than believing things are changing for the direction you wish to see, I would quickly open your eyes to the reality - whether it be Berlin or Los Cristianos, far from legislation being relaxed, much much more is on the way. Can't see the EU doing much about it either, especially considering one of the driving forces here is Germany.
These proposed restrictions on residential letting accept that 30 day plus stays are ok in residential properties. That's the bit that's helpful to residential lettings in the canaries. As we all know touristic renters in the canaries can't be forced to use a sole monopoly agent, that part of the 1995 laws is illegal under eu law , specifically bolkestein directive.
So as I say things moving forward in the right direction for residential and touristic renters in the canaries.
These proposed restrictions on residential letting accept that 30 day plus stays are ok in residential properties. That's the bit that's helpful to residential lettings in the canaries. As we all know touristic renters in the canaries can't be forced to use a sole monopoly agent, that part of the 1995 laws is illegal under eu law , specifically bolkestein directive.
So as I say things moving forward in the right direction for residential and touristic renters in the canaries.
Glad to see you're still trying to fart into the wind.
If you're so sure that Bolkenstein protects your right to do as you please with Holiday Letting in the Canaries, let's see you put your money where your mouth is and challenge it in the courts. Let us know how you get on.
You might also like to enlighten us why French and German law applies in the Canaries !!!!
If I was you, I'd be more worried about what the Spanish Government plan to do about it as their law WILL apply to the Canaries.
Angusjim
29-12-2013, 08:24
Blimey how did this thread come alive again? Hasn't everything been said and repeated and repeated in the 8760 posts. Things are what they are and they "aint gonna change" whatever God you prey to, or whatever side of the fence your'e on.:doh:
If not convinced that thing will stay the same, maybe read this:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/rental-ban-to-end-berlins-reign-as-holiday-lets-capital-9027655.html
And you thought 18000 euros was tough!
DEL you have an option if it upsets you don't read the posts and don't reply simples:doh:
- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -
Glad to see you're still trying to fart into the wind.
If you're so sure that Bolkenstein protects your right to do as you please with Holiday Letting in the Canaries, let's see you put your money where your mouth is and challenge it in the courts. Let us know how you get on.
You might also like to enlighten us why French and German law applies in the Canaries !!!!
If I was you, I'd be more worried about what the Spanish Government plan to do about it as their law WILL apply to the Canaries.
Hopefully there are cleverer less corrupt people in the mainland government then who can maybe see past the hotel lobby who only care about their shareholders dividends
http://youtu.be/FB8nIGKbpJY
Hopefully there are cleverer less corrupt people in the mainland government then who can maybe see past the hotel lobby who only care about their shareholders dividends
I'd be glad to see that proved true BUT given the financial position of Spain, I suspect that they see this as an easy way of bringing in revenue which won't p*ss of the electorate as it will mainly hit foreign property owners.
I guessing that current system is possibly better anyhow as you don't have to wait 2,5 or 10 years to lapse
You can just get them out with 50% + 1 votes at anytime.
My suggestion is a big difference compared with the current system as now the sole agent only needs 50% of the participation quota and not 50% of the votes. In my proposal you need both. Keep in mind that if you have more than 1 properties you have only 1 vote (with the percentage of all properties). This would benefit the owners as the sole agents can never have the majority with only their own properties.
Rene - Where does the "elected for a period of 2 years" come from - is that a "suggestion" that you are making?.
Yes it is a suggestion so that a new sole agent has the time to make it a profitable business.
Also getting "50% of the participation quota" could be quite difficult, as I know there is a lot of apathy when it comes to voting at an AGM or EGM, and you are lucky to get 25% of the total co-efficient - even counting all the proxy votes. I am not exactly sure what you mean by "paticipation quota" - are you referring to "total co-efficient", or just 50% of those who have bothered to vote?
My proposal to elect a sole agent is 50% of the owners present or represented in the meeting. To change from residential to touristic or from touristic to residential it is 75% of all owners.
[QUOTE=René;344439]My suggestion is a big difference compared with the current system as now the sole agent only needs 50% of the participation quota and not 50% of the votes. In my proposal you need both. Keep in mind that if you have more than 1 properties you have only 1 vote (with the percentage of all properties). This would benefit the owners as the sole agents can never have the majority with only their own properties.
There can be no real world future for monopoly sole agency, it's in essence a barking mad nonsense.
No fair minded govt could ever want to have such a barn pot daft scheme as part of its main vital industry. It leaves the operation of hundreds and thousands of tourist beds at the whim of each complex maintains the magic 50 plus 1 of owners being involved. The moment this magic number is lost, due to a single owner ceasing to rent, then that's it game over. The entire complex is now illegal , all future bookings must be cancelled , the sole agent has to close his business.
What logic is there to such a situation?could the canary economic department sleep easy with a vital part of their economy on this knife edge? We all know what happens if anyone rents on a complex with less than the 50 plus 1, massive fines. But why?
The only answer is that the 1995 laws are there at the corrupt demand of the hotel mafia, a scheme that seeks to burden self catering renting with hotel overheads , simply an anti competitive measure.
Not only will euro law normalise letting in the canaries but there will have to be a judicial investigation from Madrid into why the canary govt brought about these pro hotel laws.
Without doubt the sole agent system is completely undefendable, and the sensible future will not involve any reform of this unnecessary burdon.
Red Devil
29-12-2013, 17:26
Most residential complexes are quite one of the reasons for this is because there are no rowdy ****** up tourists around.
Port Royal is a little different, most of the apartment owners don't live here. It doesn't make it right before, just because a lot of the owners are now not openly renting to tourists because of the clamp down on residential complexes.
How on earth do you know most of the owners dont live on Port Royale? Is that a fact or just a guess?
Yes it was built as residential, no doubt as Royal Palm was also but RP have changed to touristic and were able to do this I believe because both complexes were built before the new laws of the early 90's. In that case I assume Port Royale would also be able to change subject to complying with necessary regs?
In reply to Murph, both Port Royale and Royal Palm were built by the same people who built the timeshares up there so they are just as spacious and well designed. As for being cheap? Depends which ones you are looking at, views and location are everything.
How on earth do you know most of the owners dont live on Port Royale? Is that a fact or just a guess?.
Because i know most of the owners thats the reason why and i know most of the owners dont live on that complex
Red Devil
29-12-2013, 19:10
Because i know most of the owners thats the reason why and i know most of the owners dont live on that complex
Well far be it for me to be sceptical but there are over 300 apartments on Port Royale......
Go and ask in the community office, Marisol how many owners actually live on the complex.
Job done.
There are 311 individual apartments including 6 store rooms cheers
delderek
29-12-2013, 19:27
In answer to Red Devil
Royal Palm did not change it was built as Touristic, and a letting agent was on sight within a few years, Also many other agents were letting out, and the result was many confused tourists. The original administrators were International Resort Management" (IRM) who were heavily involved in holiday letting and time share, Beverly hills Hollywood mirage were also controlled by the same group, and Beverly hills facilities were at that stage open to R.P tourists. As RP developed many residents moved in, or many did not let, so IRM pulled out, as it did not fit there portfoilio, but the status did not change. What did change was that the original agent did not have the 51% that is now required, but that did not apply during the early RP years, and a free for all developed, with to my knowledge, 4 separate agents letting out, with only the original one on sight who of course would dismiss renters that had a problem with an apartment that was not under his control. Hence, the Sole Agent Law.
- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -
My suggestion is a big difference compared with the current system as now the sole agent only needs 50% of the participation quota and not 50% of the votes. In my proposal you need both. Keep in mind that if you have more than 1 properties you have only 1 vote (with the percentage of all properties). This would benefit the owners as the sole agents can never have the majority with only their own properties.
Yes it is a suggestion so that a new sole agent has the time to make it a profitable business.
My proposal to elect a sole agent is 50% of the owners present or represented in the meeting. To change from residential to touristic or from touristic to residential it is 75% of all owners.
Is it then fair that Residents who purchased to live on that complex , should be faced with the huge additional costs in community fees to bring the complex up to tourist standards. Fire regs, 24 hour reception, lifeguards, etc etc. I think not.
In answer to Red Devil
Royal Palm did not change it was built as Touristic, and a letting agent was on sight within a few years, Also many other agents were letting out, and the result was many confused tourists. The original administrators were International Resort Management" (IRM) who were heavily involved in holiday letting and time share, Beverly hills Hollywood mirage were also controlled by the same group, and Beverly hills facilities were at that stage open to R.P tourists. As RP developed many residents moved in, or many did not let, so IRM pulled out, as it did not fit there portfoilio, but the status did not change. What did change was that the original agent did not have the 51% that is now required, but that did not apply during the early RP years, and a free for all developed, with to my knowledge, 4 separate agents letting out, with only the original one on sight who of course would dismiss renters that had a problem with an apartment that was not under his control. Hence, the Sole Agent Law.
- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -
Is it then fair that Residents who purchased to live on that complex , should be faced with the huge additional costs in community fees to bring the complex up to tourist standards. Fire regs, 24 hour reception, lifeguards, etc etc. I think not.
It's mind numbing all this talk of agents , agents and agents. Whatever motives originally existed in 1995 to result in the crazy letting laws and the monopoly sole agent the reality of holiday home letting today is totally different. Hundreds of thousands of people in the canaries can rent out their holiday home entirely themselves without any agents whatsoever. Indeed many thousands of them have been handed massive fines for doing just that. There does not appear to have been a problem with confused clients judging by the growth of this holiday home letting these past 20 years.
In today's world 2013 there are Internet advertising sites which generate bookings for holiday homes the world over, these sites specialise in nothing but generating bookings for people's holiday homes.
Clearly it's time to forget about sole agents and move into the real world.
Canary Islas leading the way in future tourism around the globe with their sole agents controlling those complexes where andy and aunt fanny used to have a go until they ****ed it right up.
Should have paid their taxes where they were generated
Cheers me duck
X
Malteser Monkey
29-12-2013, 21:20
Mark Merry Christmas hun not seen you around too much so I know it's off topic
Hope you and yours have a good New Year Mate xx
Mark Merry Christmas hun not seen you around too much so I know it's off topic
Hope you and yours have a good New Year Mate xx
Cheers ive been in hospital
delderek
29-12-2013, 21:21
It's mind numbing all this talk of agents , agents and agents. Whatever motives originally existed in 1995 to result in the crazy letting laws and the monopoly sole agent the reality of holiday home letting today is totally different. Hundreds of thousands of people in the canaries can rent out their holiday home entirely themselves without any agents whatsoever. Indeed many thousands of them have been handed massive fines for doing just that. There does not appear to have been a problem with confused clients judging by the growth of this holiday home letting these past 20 years.
In today's world 2013 there are Internet advertising sites which generate bookings for holiday homes the world over, these sites specialise in nothing but generating bookings for people's holiday homes.
Clearly it's time to forget about sole agents and move into the real world.
I readily agree that the internet and modern communications have changed many things. But remember when these laws were drafted, there were no mobile phone signals in Los Cristianos or LA, a few public telephone booths were about, but trying to ring the UK was a nightmare. So imagine a tourist on a complex with multiple off site agents, (and most people did use agents) having for instance a major water leak and trying to phone an owner or offsite agent, for instance late evening, the system just didn't work. Hence the 24 hour agent on site rule. If as I believe you do, let out your apartment, what do your guests do in emergencies similar to above.
I readily agree that the internet and modern communications have changed many things. But remember when these laws were drafted, there were no mobile phone signals in Los Cristianos or LA, a few public telephone booths were about, but trying to ring the UK was a nightmare. So imagine a tourist on a complex with multiple off site agents, (and most people did use agents) having for instance a major water leak and trying to phone an owner or offsite agent, for instance late evening, the system just didn't work. Hence the 24 hour agent on site rule. If as I believe you do, let out your apartment, what do your guests do in emergencies similar to above.
It's a fair point about lack of mobile phones back in the day , true phoning uk then was a call box headache . Today you have mobiles and e mail. Surely this shows just how any concerns about communication back in 1995 are not an issue today , what with these advances in communication technology .
We rely on our first class Canarian apartment managers to sort any maintenance issues, they are marvelous and we are blessed to have them.
A sole apartment management company blimey sounds so monopolistic
X
To 9Plus (it is Mark isn't it),
As a regular contributor to this thread and as it is approaching the New Year, may I suggest that you (or someone) "summarises" the main points of this thread and brings "Part 1" of the saga to a close.
A new thread could then be started on the 1st of January 2014 entitled "Illegal Lettings Thread - 2014" for use in detailing all "new" develops from 1/1/14 onwards as they occur. Would save having to plough through nearly 10,000 posts in the existing thread.
Since most of the initial cases (based on Internet evidence) were thrown out, there seems to have been no real news on what is happening (new Law? - new Tactics?) and nothing further posted on the Website of "She who must not be mentioned" since October.
Just a suggestion for a New Year's Resolution.
Happy New Year everyone - Feliz Ano Nuevo
Is it then fair that Residents who purchased to live on that complex , should be faced with the huge additional costs in community fees to bring the complex up to tourist standards. Fire regs, 24 hour reception, lifeguards, etc etc. I think not.
It will be difficult anyway to get 75% of all owners. On a complex where are living many owners it will be impossible. So the option to change is therefore only interesting for complexes where already many owners rent out their property (short term) and where just a few owners are living permanently.
If a complex changes from residential to touristic the price of the property will normally go up immediately. This means that the owners living there permanently can accept the extra costs, knowing that they will be more or less reimbursed for the extra community fee they need to pay when they sell the property or sell the property directly with an interesting profit.
There can be no real world future for monopoly sole agency, it's in essence a barking mad nonsense.
That there is only one agent on a touristic complex does not mean that there is automatically a monopoly. It is a monopoly if there are no other companies that can replace the current sole agent, something that can be done with 50+%.
In my opinion the Canarian Government will continue to control their most important business and I think that changing the way of appointing the sole agent in a more favorable way for the owners is probably the most that can be achieved at the moment.
The Canarian govt is mismanaging their most important asset, the entire private holiday home renting community had done nothing but good for the canaries economy, serving thousands of tourists over the years.
There was simply no sane reason to try to discourage / force tourists to stop staying in one type of bed and make them sleep in another. Interfering in customers free choices would never help the economy overall, just corruptly favour one commercial sector over another.
The Canarian govt is not in the driving seat on this, their dormant 1995 laws could never stack up over free euro trading laws as regards touristics and from what we are now hearing about restrictions on residential letting euro law looks like allowing 30 day plus stays for these owners.
Giving over your personal holiday home to a monopoly agent to rent is absurd, there is no sane reason to accept that situation when anywhere else in the world individuals just do the normal uncontroversial thing and rent them themselves.
Given alotcas victory in the courts and the helpful comments of the judges things are moving forward on a sound basis , alotca is now forming a fighting fund to carry on the move to sort this out. Alotca has already tried to engage the canary govt in a debate on the issue, without success , but the fight goes on and will ultimately be decided in Madrid/ euro courts , so the canary govt position won't be the final say.
Solution:-
Sign up to your local on-site sole agent and then your tourist can have your old fashioned bed
cheers
x
Red Devil
31-12-2013, 00:42
[QUOTE=9PLUS;344481][I]Canary Islas leading the way in future tourism around the globe with their sole agents controlling those complexes where andy and aunt fanny used to have a go until they ****ed it right up
Should have paid their taxes where they were generated
Canary Islas ****up the independent traveller. All they want apparently are 2 week clones.
http://blog.firenzelodging.it/do-not-bring-cash-in-italy-to-pay-for-your-next-holiday-rental/# check out what the Italians are doing.
Canary Islas ****up the independent traveller. All they want apparently are 2 week clones.
Independent travelers can stay in any legal bed, saying that there's no where else, only illegal is lame.
Plenty of legal beds out there
I said in a 23 December post that Turismo was jubilant that 2013 would pass into the record books for the number of visitors in a complete year – the current record was 10,210,000 in 2011. And, indeed, the Canaries did break the record, with 10.63 million visitors throughout last year, up 421,599 from 2011's record. The good news was released today by the Ministerio de Industria, Energía y Turismo. The biggest markets continue to be Germany, the UK and the Scandinavian countries, but Russia and Italy are increasingly strong.
Source JA
essexeddie
28-03-2014, 19:49
Blimey this thread has gone quiet after a very turbulent time. Nelson must be away.
Blimey this thread has gone quiet after a very turbulent time. Nelson must be away.
Thanks mate ...... for bringing this back on, I will be back on the vallium in 10 mins .:lots-jumping::lots-jumping::lots-jumping::lots-jumping:
:flatcap:
essexeddie
29-03-2014, 17:57
:doggy: Ha ha ha ha I was getting withdrawal symptoms
Moderator
29-03-2014, 18:30
The thread was closed for a while as it got a bit personal and out of hand.
Let's try to keep on topic as it is a valuable thread and personal attacks and rubbish are of no help to members who are looking for info.
essexeddie
29-03-2014, 18:42
Seems to be a touchy subject. But very informative I must say.
Ecky Thump
17-04-2014, 08:50
Seems to be a touchy subject. But very informative I must say.
I hope you read and digested all 8800 posts and reached a conclusion!:duh::lol:
Angusjim
25-05-2014, 07:49
So what is the latest on the illegal letting ? I know of two or three residential complexes that are still very busy with holiday bookings some apartments fully booked up for next year so obviously the ban is not having an effect everywhere
junglejim
25-05-2014, 11:17
Nice try AJ but nobody biting - Loaded has gone on self imposed exile and Nelson has gone AWOL ... even JA has nothing to say at moment as regulation is being "reviewed".
Our place seems to be illegally booked up for next winter too !
Angusjim
25-05-2014, 12:28
Nice try AJ but nobody biting - Loaded has gone on self imposed exile and Nelson has gone AWOL ... even JA has nothing to say at moment as regulation is being "reviewed".
Our place seems to be illegally booked up for next winter too !
Things are a bit slow and dull on here at moment just thought maybe some news may stimulate some posting
Malteser Monkey
25-05-2014, 12:40
Nice try AJ but nobody biting - Loaded has gone on self imposed exile and Nelson has gone AWOL ... even JA has nothing to say at moment as regulation is being "reviewed".
Our place seems to be illegally booked up for next winter too !
Nelson was on at 11am JJ
Angusjim
25-05-2014, 12:45
I have just booked an apartment on a timeshare complex thru a third party who is not the sole agent and we have the full use of the facilities reception / cleaners in every day etc etc so clearly they have an arrangement with the the Timeshare company and I know of one other company who has same arrangement on this site and there may be more.Does this arrangement meet current legislation ???
junglejim
25-05-2014, 12:59
Nelson was on at 11am JJ
not on this thread AJ !
Angusjim
25-05-2014, 13:02
not on this thread AJ !
No me that posted it was the nosey Welsh wifie :lol::doh:
Malteser Monkey
25-05-2014, 13:04
No me that posted it was the nosey Welsh wifie :lol::doh:
I'd answer you if I knew what you were on about:D
not on this thread AJ !
Dun nae know mate but he was logged on the forum then:wink2:
So what is the latest on the illegal letting ? I know of two or three residential complexes that are still very busy with holiday bookings some apartments fully booked up for next year so obviously the ban is not having an effect everywhere
Hi all, things are quiet at the moment following the collapse of the canary govt court cases last year. That was on the basic legal principle that just an Internet ad alone was not evidence of illegal letting. Most of us uk people thought that in the first place, the eu runs on free proper democratic principles , freedom in law business etc, so amazing really that the canary govt issues fines based on adverts alone.
Alotca promised a new website in January , we await that. The canary lady has her campaign and petition moving, that's the affected canarians themselves campaigning to get proper free tourist letting established .
We also know in Europe residential tourist lets are being looked at , it seems a months let is going to be legal even in a residential property.
The daft new canary law of last year is a complete nonsense and won't be acceptable under eu law, it's just not free market based.
Really the current situation is will the canary govt start another expensive crackdown that will end in defeat in the courts or will they do the right thing and begin a permitted system to control holiday home renting, and regulate the industry and get a massive amount of revenue for the canary island tax dept.
Angusjim
25-05-2014, 14:26
Hi all, things are quiet at the moment following the collapse of the canary govt court cases last year. That was on the basic legal principle that just an Internet ad alone was not evidence of illegal letting. Most of us uk people thought that in the first place, the eu runs on free proper democratic principles , freedom in law business etc, so amazing really that the canary govt issues fines based on adverts alone.
Alotca promised a new website in January , we await that. The canary lady has her campaign and petition moving, that's the affected canarians themselves campaigning to get proper free tourist letting established .
We also know in Europe residential tourist lets are being looked at , it seems a months let is going to be legal even in a residential property.
The daft new canary law of last year is a complete nonsense and won't be acceptable under eu law, it's just not free market based.
Really the current situation is will the canary govt start another expensive crackdown that will end in defeat in the courts or will they do the right thing and begin a permitted system to control holiday home renting, and regulate the industry and get a massive amount of revenue for the canary island tax dept.
Good to hear from you again Nelson:wave:
junglejim
25-05-2014, 15:16
...:zzz::coffee:
Moderator
25-05-2014, 15:50
Great to see this thread being updated.
Let's keep it an ongoing information thread now rather than a chatty argumentative one.
It would be a great idea to start a new thread on the subject and close this, as the majority of the info is now out of date.
Daren't decide for myself as the last time a mod made that kind of decision all the detractors jumped on him.
Should a new thread be started and kept as an info thread only, or leave it as it is so no new members would even dream of accessing it?
We are,after all, not only a chat site (in the appropriate sections) but more importantly an information site, which is the reason the vast majority of new members join.
delderek
25-05-2014, 16:55
Great to see this thread being updated.
Let's keep it an ongoing information thread now rather than a chatty argumentative one.
It would be a great idea to start a new thread on the subject and close this, as the majority of the info is now out of date.
Daren't decide for myself as the last time a mod made that kind of decision all the detractors jumped on him.
Should a new thread be started and kept as an info thread only, or leave it as it is so no new members would even dream of accessing it?
We are,after all, not only a chat site (in the appropriate sections) but more importantly an information site, which is the reason the vast majority of new members join.
New thread would be fine, but keep existing title although add perhaps 2014. or thread 2
Personally I think starting a new Thread would be a good idea - beginning with a not too long winded summary of the events of the past leading up to where we are now (something akin to what you see in Film sequels, where it begins showing short clips from the previous one(s)).
1st of January 2014 would be a good start date for showing posts, and let it be more of an "Information & Observations" only Thread, rather than an argumentative one with posters attacking each other.
I reside on a legitimate fully registered Tourist Complex, and what interests me most is any change (or clarification) of the "Sole Lettings Agent" rule, which I have my own opinions about.
Moderator
25-05-2014, 18:44
Personally I think starting a new Thread would be a good idea - beginning with a not too long winded summary of the events of the past leading up to where we are now (something akin to what you see in Film sequels, where it begins showing short clips from the previous one(s)).
1st of January 2014 would be a good start date for showing posts, and let it be more of an "Information & Observations" only Thread, rather than an argumentative one with posters attacking each other.
I reside on a legitimate fully registered Tourist Complex, and what interests me most is any change (or clarification) of the "Sole Lettings Agent" rule, which I have my own opinions about.
Can you recommend some one to do that?
junglejim
25-05-2014, 19:02
To be honest Moderator , I don´t see the point when access or reference to the most pertinent source of information and analysis is denied to members and guests .
Other posters , such as myself on an illegal but operating Tourist Complex can only give anecdotal comments -the real sources are people like Loaded and JA - most of the rest is opinion and supposition - IMO .
Don't know how you can say that? Loaded is a sole agent, his position is a turkey not voting for Christmas. The crazy Alice in wonderland sole agent system is his bread and butter , quite naturally he is going to favour that nonsense remaining. He is only absent from this forums debate because he has chosen to leave the debate.
Ja provides a useful website but all that is put forward there is not all that is important on this issue . This forum allows open discussion and debate about the issue and all that is posted is out there on the world wide Internet . In December after the govt defeat in the canary courts alotca said that members needed to give funds to carry the campaign forward , a new website was coming to organise that . At present no action has been demonstrated , it's may now and this should have happened.
In my opinion this thread can carry on without a 2014 update , let it be open as before to all opinions , it can report events and people can debate the issue . The canaries should be a place where people can rent out their holiday home legally , on their own and not in an artificial collective under an agent overlord.
???????????? I tried to make a new post quoting what JungleJim has said, but the system seems to have thrown a "wobbly". What I was trying to say in reply was that I agree that if all opinions, comments, and observations were not to be included in a new Thread it would be rather pointless, and I had forgotten that a certain previous contributor, with lots of information on the subject, had been banned from the Forum, and without whose opinions we would not be getting the full picture.
junglejim
26-05-2014, 00:28
Close the thread and move on , wait till something significant happens before opening a new one -there is a difference between debating on facts and debating on fantasy !
seanocelt
26-05-2014, 02:32
For once im with Nelson......................there, i said it!
Angusjim
26-05-2014, 08:20
Close the thread and move on , wait till something significant happens before opening a new one -there is a difference between debating on facts and debating on fantasy !
On that basis close about 80% of all threads;):D
junglejim
26-05-2014, 08:53
On that basis close about 80% of all threads;):D
Personally AJ ,I agree but the games are apparently popular ,Seany are you still on the Guinness ?LOL!
The thread is in a Hiatus until the regulations are "reviewed" the facts of this review will be published on JA´s site and be discussed ad nauseum here !
The bare minimum information might be reported in the Canarian Weekly a few months later !
http://www.diariodeavisos.com/2014/06/rechazo-unanime-al-proyecto-legalizacion-del-alquiler-vacacional
Ooooooooooooo
Red Devil
26-06-2014, 09:39
Thanks, Unfortunately using Google translate hasnt made it very clear to me, can anyone help with translation?
Thanks, Unfortunately using Google translate hasnt made it very clear to me, can anyone help with translation?
Unless I'm mistaken it just looks like the hotel mob reiterating their stance against a free market. I wouldn't expect anything else to be honest.
This is currently doing the rounds too, I didn't know about these guys....http://www.spain-holiday.com/rentalbuzz/a-change-is-coming-for-holiday-rentals-in-the-canary-islands
Nothing new here either. Just two opposing sides stating their case from what I can see..:tiphat:
Angusjim
26-06-2014, 10:22
The guy fae the union looks like hes been telt turn up and sit there or your sacked:laugh::c2:
Malteser Monkey
26-06-2014, 10:54
The guy fae the union looks like hes been telt turn up and sit there or your sacked:laugh::c2:
Thanks, Unfortunately using Google translate hasnt made it very clear to me, can anyone help with translation?
Echo echo:crylaughing:
primrose
26-06-2014, 10:59
Thanks, Unfortunately using Google translate hasnt made it very clear to me, can anyone help with translation?
Echo echo:crylaughing:
http://newsinthesun.com/
"The President of the Tenerife Hotel Association (Ashotel), Jorge Marich"
They forgot the other S
its good to see the hotels rattled enough to try to go public in calling for further crackdowns. But how absurd to paint a picture of holiday home renting as a dirty underground black economy carry on, with thousands of dissatisfied upset customers arriving to be upset and disappointed.
This latest outburst must follow the failure of the last prosecutions and the canary campaign group demanding legalisation of holiday home renting, and making a strong legal case that the canary laws of 1996 are illegal.
Its a fair point for unions to be in support of the hotels , hotels will provide more employment. However in reality no one can ever dicatate to the customer and bend market forces to their will. If people want to holiday in someones holiday home and self cater that remains their free choice. In the eu markets have to be in harmony, there has to be the freedom to enjoy that consumer choice anywhere in Europe without hinderance. People have to be free to choose a hotel holiday, a camping holiday, a sea cruise holiday or a self catering holiday. All these types of holiday option need to be available, its not for any one business owner or their employees to be able to demand their own personal monoploy.
Thats just basic reality, wake up ashotel , stop dreaming, face up to the real world.
Ecky Thump
28-06-2014, 15:54
So say you
And a lot of folk (including me) agree with nelsons statement.:-)
And a lot of folk (including me) agree with Nelsons statement.:-)
What all of it ? and just maybe some of those 13 that liked the post?
I liked it doesn't mean I agree with it and doesn't mean its completely true.
Ecky Thump
28-06-2014, 17:00
What all of it ? and just maybe some of those 13 that liked the post?
I liked it doesn't mean I agree with it and doesn't mean its completely true.
Lots of possibilities and if you talk to people who are looking for self catering accommodation in Tenerife you will find that it's a lack of previously advertised apartments that are leading them to book outwith of Tenerife and that is factual and the truth!
I liked your post.:cheeky:
The Canaries are an Ultra Peripheral Zone so the "freedom to enjoy that consumer choice anywhere in Europe without hinderance" is flawed in the Canaries.
The only failure I'd understood was the way the Government tried collect the evidence of illegal holiday letting was taken from the internet, cant remember the law changing in favour of that activity it's still illegal in the Canaries.
Ecky Thump
28-06-2014, 18:52
It's about time people realised that the law is an ass and that all they are doing (and failing) is to impose punitive taxes, and stop spouting about illegal lettings and support the many people who as well as offering a service to holiday makers, bring in to Tenerife much needed money.
I can almost see the immediate replies to this post that all the people that let property on residential complexes are evading paying tax, what I would like to see is the evidence of this, or is it just supposition and a argument put forward to support what appears to be the minority of people who agree with the law as it stands today,.....which will hopefully change in the very near future.
Are you waiting for someone to post a list of all Residential property owners that illegally holiday let and don't pay tax?
Ecky Thump
28-06-2014, 20:47
Are you waiting for someone to post a list of all Residential property owners that illegally holiday let and don't pay tax?
All I'm waiting for is for common sense to prevail, something that some folk appear to lack.
Angusjim
29-06-2014, 07:13
The Canaries are an Ultra Peripheral Zone so the "freedom to enjoy that consumer choice anywhere in Europe without hinderance" is flawed in the Canaries.
The only failure I'd understood was the way the Government tried collect the evidence of illegal holiday letting was taken from the internet, cant remember the law changing in favour of that activity it's still illegal in the Canaries.
And there by lies one of the problems with the EU, rules & laws should be followed by all to make it fair for all not like this crazy situations that the Canaries opt out of things they don't like but stand in line with their begging bowls out for tax payers in the UK and other members countries to constantly fill it up :crazy::crazy:
junglejim
29-06-2014, 09:15
Another opinion and Assosiation
http://www.spain-holiday.com/rentalbuzz/a-change-is-coming-for-holiday-rentals-in-the-canary-islands
Angusjim
29-06-2014, 09:23
Another opinion and Assosiation
http://www.spain-holiday.com/rentalbuzz/a-change-is-coming-for-holiday-rentals-in-the-canary-islands
Sorry JJ there is only one way forward as has been drummed into us by the people in the know:whistle::wink:
Ecky Thump
29-06-2014, 09:26
Another opinion and Assosiation
http://www.spain-holiday.com/rentalbuzz/a-change-is-coming-for-holiday-rentals-in-the-canary-islands
Thanks Jim, it appears to be a well written article and well worth a read.
I'm sure it will be rubbished by some as a piece of fiction!
Post #8826 :tiphat:
Is my royalty cheque in the post JJ?....:lol:
Angusjim
29-06-2014, 10:05
Thanks Jim, it appears to be a well written article and well worth a read.
I'm sure it will be rubbished by some as a piece of fiction!
Obviously you have not taken in what you have been told to date !! pay attention there is no other way other Ashotel's thoughts unless however someone has fatter brown envelope thought:nono:
Ecky Thump
29-06-2014, 10:23
Obviously you have not taken in what you have been told to date !! pay attention there is no other way other Ashotel's thoughts unless however someone has fatter brown envelope thought:nono:
I think there are lots of "Fat brown envelopes" floating around Tenerife!:wink:
- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -
Unless I'm mistaken it just looks like the hotel mob reiterating their stance against a free market. I wouldn't expect anything else to be honest.
This is currently doing the rounds too, I didn't know about these guys....http://www.spain-holiday.com/rentalbuzz/a-change-is-coming-for-holiday-rentals-in-the-canary-islands
Nothing new here either. Just two opposing sides stating their case from what I can see..:tiphat:
Another opinion and Assosiation
http://www.spain-holiday.com/rentalbuzz/a-change-is-coming-for-holiday-rentals-in-the-canary-islands
Post #8826 :tiphat:
Is my royalty cheque in the post JJ?....:lol:
Big fat brown envelope on its way!:tiphat:
Tom & Sharon
29-06-2014, 10:56
So, are we expecting a big announcement of a change in the law then, this week?
So, are we expecting a big announcement of a change in the law then, this week? yep and this will be the last post on this thread:wave:
Tom & Sharon
29-06-2014, 11:05
Anybody know which day?
Angusjim
29-06-2014, 11:07
So, are we expecting a big announcement of a change in the law then, this week?
I hear they have written to the presidents on all complexes to ask these knowledgeable & fair people what their thoughts and suggestions are as they they speak for most if not all owners:whistle::whistle:
- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -
Anybody know which day?
I heard 30th February 2015
junglejim
29-06-2014, 11:21
Post #8826 :tiphat:
Is my royalty cheque in the post JJ?....:lol:
Apologies , didn't see your post ! Must have been sleeping!
Another opinion and Assosiation
http://www.spain-holiday.com/rentalbuzz/a-change-is-coming-for-holiday-rentals-in-the-canary-islands
I hope Janet will not mind me cutting & pasting some of her comments about this in May:-
Yes, as I’ve said many times. The situation is that any talk of “looking at” the possibility of “regulating the sector” runs into two huge problems. First, it is already “regulated” in the sense that private holiday letting is illegal. How much more “regulated” can it be? What is needed is a change to the regulation that exists.
.
The second problem is that when Turismo or the government “looks at” the issue, they are doing so from the absolutely explicit standpoint of “protecting the legal sector”. That is “legal” under existing legislation. In other words, tightening up the existing system. This is why Alotca have decided the way forward is negotiation and discussion with government, tourism agencies, businesses, etc., rather than a frontal attack on an entrenched defensive position.
.
As I’ve said for some time now, the government is on record as saying that it will revisit the new legislation after a year, a year during which it has been consulted on and the reglamento has been drawn up (is still being drawn up, I understand). In a few months at most, therefore, we will know what they intend. Having said all that, the petition cannot harm if it keeps the pressure up and we can always hope!
junglejim
29-06-2014, 13:39
Doreen , I saw JA's comments and ALOTCA's stance wrt Turismo the other Association seems to have a different strategy as well as support base (which seems to be more based on Nationals and their rights under old LAU ) .
The recent comments from Ashotel suggest they are not moving so it will be interesting to see where the revision of last year's upgrade takes us .
What is surprising is that 2 years ago Snr Escobedo was selling to people on our complex an Arrendamiento de Vivienda ,modified for short term renting that was to be used for "holiday lets " , yet JA said they were completely useless ?
Anyway , the thread is having a slow revival ! LOL!
That's the interesting point , this is the Canarian petition and campaign , and yes they are saying the 1995 law is flawed because it completely leaves out holiday lets that were part of the 1982 law. They will get my 5 euro a month for sure.
Alotca also would get my subscription , they said at Christmas they were organising it and bringing out a new website , it's July next week not up and running yet. Alotca seemed to be sympathetic to a reformed sole agent scenario , I would not want that myself , the Canarian campaign seems more sensible , legalise holiday home renting just like the rest of the world .
Doreen , I saw JA's comments and ALOTCA's stance wrt Turismo the other Association seems to have a different strategy as well as support base (which seems to be more based on Nationals and their rights under old LAU ) .
The recent comments from Ashotel suggest they are not moving so it will be interesting to see where the revision of last year's upgrade takes us .
What is surprising is that 2 years ago Snr Escobedo was selling to people on our complex an Arrendamiento de Vivienda ,modified for short term renting that was to be used for "holiday lets " , yet JA said they were completely useless ?
Anyway , the thread is having a slow revival ! LOL!
Whilst I haven't actually asked him, I would guess Jose Escobedo's strategy would be to put paper work in place that would help him argue against the validity of any imposed fine :)
Red Devil
29-06-2014, 17:14
The Canaries have a strange way of looking at things if the fact there are thousands of people wanting to come to their islands, spend money and stay in private accommodation is classed as "a problem, that must be stopped"
Surely an enlightened country would be grabbing everyone they could and looking at ways to legally accommodate them all, not saying we will only have you visit us if you stay where we tell you to.
I have yet to find anyone who decided to stay all inclusive in a 5* because their usual privately owned holiday home was no longer available to them.
Before anyone starts saying but its residential, not allowed, I dont recall any posts from any owners on El Mirador, Dinastia etc complaining they bought there and found holidaymakers! Most bought as a holiday home so naturally wanted to supplement their income, thats what people in holiday resorts do - the fact that there isnt a mechanism for them to legally pay tax on their earnings isnt a problem they have caused.
Mind you, what other holiday area cancels a dedicated bus that actually transports you to the airport and instead makes the airport stop part of a normal bus route therefore causing pandemonium whenever passengers try to get on there, then terminates in the centre of Las Americas, instead of continuing to Costa Adeje like every other route.
Before anyone starts saying but its residential, not allowed, I dont recall any posts from any owners on El Mirador, Dinastia etc complaining they bought there and found holidaymakers! Most bought as a holiday home so naturally wanted to supplement their income, thats what people in holiday resorts do - the fact that there isnt a mechanism for them to legally pay tax on their earnings isnt a problem they have caused.
It's very interesting the debate on whether you should pay income tax or not if your property isn't 'legal.' I should have thought that if you didn't pay tax then you're in trouble with both turismo and the hacienda. But then on the other hand, how can you pay tax if you're not allowed to take the money in the first place?
And what about Airbnb? As far as I understand, they've won their case in New York but I can't seem to get an answer out of them about sofa surfing in the Canaries.
Red Devil
29-06-2014, 17:51
It's very interesting the debate on whether you should pay income tax or not if your property isn't 'legal.' I should have thought that if you didn't pay tax then you're in trouble with both turismo and the hacienda. But then on the other hand, how can you pay tax if you're not allowed to take the money in the first place?
And what about Airbnb? As far as I understand, they've won their case in New York but I can't seem to get an answer out of them about sofa surfing in the Canaries.
Everyone "should" pay tax, no question! Although actually the clampdown by authorities has never been about tax.
As the law stands I would imagine Airbnb is same as HomeAway and other renting sites in that its the owner who is breaking the law, not the company advertising the property.
Incidentially I'm sure I've read that London has new laws due to come in around October that short term renting can now take place anywhere.
And what about Airbnb? As far as I understand, they've won their case in New York but I can't seem to get an answer out of them about sofa surfing in the Canaries.
I don't think AirBnB are winning in New York
Jane Fernley* had booked her accommodation in New York for a holiday in July, having chosen to stay in a private residence she found on popular website Airbnb.
The website allows home owners to list a room or house for short-term rent, and has become a worldwide alternative to staying in a hotel.
But overnight she received an email from her hosts saying the deal was off.
"I am reaching out to you with not the greatest news. Last night, all Airbnb hosts in New York City received an email from Airbnb saying that 'all rentals under 31 days are illegal in the state of NY'.
"As a consequence, all Airbnb hosts are breaking the law by renting their places for less than that time and we are in danger of a lawsuit or a very large fine by the city.
"I am really sorry but I am obligated to cancel all my reservations."
http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2014/06/12/4024058.htm
What's more significant is the potential universal legality of 30 day plus lets in residentials. In Europe we already had heard that the eu were going to bring that in. In the canaries many residential complexs would get along fine renting out to these long stays , that would mean a full winter and half the summer. Enough to keep most renting owners happy in my opinion.
Of course if the canary govt sees that these apartments are important to the economy and decides to let the in resort residentials operate like touristics then fine , they could change their position and legislate for that.
But a 30 day legal rent would not be a bad start for our popular residential complexs today
Ecky Thump
29-06-2014, 19:12
What's more significant is the potential universal legality of 30 day plus lets in residentials. In Europe we already had heard that the eu were going to bring that in. In the canaries many residential complexs would get along fine renting out to these long stays , that would mean a full winter and half the summer. Enough to keep most renting owners happy in my opinion.
Of course if the canary govt sees that these apartments are important to the economy and decides to let the in resort residentials operate like touristics then fine , they could change their position and legislate for that.
But a 30 day legal rent would not be a bad start for our popular residential complexs today
That would certainly be good news for me, as I'm at the stage in my life when I visit Tenerife for a month at a time.:jumping:
Red Devil
29-06-2014, 19:43
That would certainly be good news for me, as I'm at the stage in my life when I visit Tenerife for a month at a time.:jumping:
And that has been one of the silliest things about the lettings law, absolutely no flexibility. You would almost think they didnt want people to visit.
You fancy a villa?? Dont be ridiculous, its not allowed.:nono:
Basically that's sadly when you are drawn to the conclusion that the lettings laws are just down to corrupt influence at govt level to corner the market as a hotel only option, a corrupt hotel monopoly.
There really should be no need for rancour and crackdowns as far as touristic holiday lets are concerned. Quite what legitimate reasons ever existed to bring about sole agent monopolies I have no idea?
No even handed and unbiased govt could have launched the 2010 crackdown without first conducting due diligance and properly examining the islands diverse holiday options that actually existed at that time. It beggars belief that an unbiased administration could have thought it correct to imagine that all the canaries tourism in 2010 should be in the form of hotels or sole agent monopoly apartments .
None of what they have done will stand up to scrutiny , the longer they delay real world reform , the deeper the hole they are digging for themselves
Red Devil
29-06-2014, 20:55
I know the Canaries have special status due to distance from rest of Spain. As the Azores also have the same status in relation to Portugal I wonder if they have adopted the same attitude with regards to rentals.
I know the Canaries have special status due to distance from rest of Spain. As the Azores also have the same status in relation to Portugal I wonder if they have adopted the same attitude with regards to rentals.
Portugal adopted a system of permitting to regulate holiday home renting. The permit is 400 euro per year, holiday home renting is legal in Portugal , that's also Madeira just above the canaries.
The eu gives periferal status to help the economies of the distant places with their practical problems. This special status is not meant to allow crazy economically damaging anti competitive behaviour . It's certainly not a licence to justify irrational govt legislation , like telling the world there are no villa holiday lets in the canaries , we don't allow them, and we are allowed to be that bonkers under the eu extra periferal exemption
Very encouraging news about the private free renting issue. A lanzarote court has ruled in favour of a group of villa renters prosecuted under the letting laws for tourist letting.
The court has accepted the eu bolkestein defence, basically the eu law demands freedom to operate the business throughout the eu. The villa owners were prosecuted for not having the complaint books and forms like so many more renters have been, but as people said on here many months ago , under bolkestein governments have to have easy to use portals for people to register their business 's without hindrance.
It seems the restrictive canary letting laws are actually illegal under eu law , as some of us have been saying for some time now.
Angusjim
23-10-2014, 06:47
Very encouraging news about the private free renting issue. A lanzarote court has ruled in favour of a group of villa renters prosecuted under the letting laws for tourist letting.
The court has accepted the eu bolkestein defence, basically the eu law demands freedom to operate the business throughout the eu. The villa owners were prosecuted for not having the complaint books and forms like so many more renters have been, but as people said on here many months ago , under bolkestein governments have to have easy to use portals for people to register their business 's without hindrance.
It seems the restrictive canary letting laws are actually illegal under eu law , as some of us have been saying for some time now.
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
nurse nurse that thread has started again
nurse nurse that thread has started again
Good - it's time we had an update on what is happening as it affects quite a lot of people here who own more than one property and wish to rent out the one(s) they don't actually live in.
Miffed-owner
24-10-2014, 09:38
That sounds very good, is there a publicly available source for that info, if so please can you post the link? Thanks.
I read the news and used a link on a popular tenerife news blog run by an English lady who now lives on Tenerife , I forget her name but her site is on the Internet , just google
http://www.diariodelanzarote.com/noticia/la-justicia-avala-que-villas-en-lanzarote-puedan-alquilarse-sin-autorizaci%C3%B3n-turistas
Angusjim
25-10-2014, 09:22
I read the news and used a link on a popular tenerife news blog run by an English lady who now lives on Tenerife , I forget her name but her site is on the Internet , just google
This threads no the same withoot yer fan club :lol:
Yes I was very lucky to have such people to debated with. Many things that were debated way back are coming round now. Sad thing is the govt did damage the private letting and the canary economy. On our place many have stopped renting and sold up to non Brits who don't rent.they were totally scared of being fined the huge fines and sold as fast as they could.
It's a victory too late for the canary unemployed and their economy
Well I did try to tell you so, so many times, but no one would listen, instead just ridiculing.
Why, Doreen even said I'd be eating my words by Christmas.
That was Christmas 2010 by the way! :ashamed:
Well I did try to tell you so, so many times, but no one would listen, instead just ridiculing.
Why, Doreen even said I'd be eating my words by Christmas.
That was Christmas 2010 by the way! :ashamed:
It was not everyone who would not listen but on this thread there were just a couple of people with personal business interests in sole agency who wanted to believe that this insane outrageous attack on free enterprise would succeed. They wanted to believe that modern Spain could impose massive fines on ordinary people for doing a normal everyday thing, renting their holiday home.
It beggars belief that the whole thing ever occurred, ie , the canary govt actually started the crackdown in the first place. Let's all look back on it is as a crazy reactionary move on Spain's journey from dictatorship to democracy .
At the end of the day the eu stands for harmony in markets and free competition without restriction .
Early days still,the island is busier than it has been in years so not too much damage has been done! Hopefully the final law will restrict people offering low standard accomodation for tourist rentals.(Including properties wth tourist licences).Many of the old complexes are no longer suitable for tourist rentals and should not be allowed to do so until they have had costly upgrades.)
The link
http://www.diariodelanzarote.com/not...ación-turistas
And some commentary by Janet puts it in perspective:
It will be fascinating to see how this unfolds over the next two months during which the evaluation of last year’s legislation will be announced, and the “regulation” demanded by Ascav is incorporated into the law. For the moment, however, this is a regional court judgment about the Lanzarote Cabildo refusal of touristic status to residential villas. The Lanzarote Cabildo has the right of appeal.
.
I suspect that at some point the Canarian government itself will get involved with this because the court’s ruling was that under the terms of Bolkestein directive service providers cannot be required to obtain approval, such as a touristic licence. And yet the Canarian government has support from the constitutional court in Spain, the highest in the land, that its legislation is valid, and that Bolkestein does not apply to private property owners.
and today
... it is just a regional court judgment against Lanzarote Cabildo for refusing touristic status to villas built on residential land … and we don’t know yet whether the Cabildo will appeal, or whether the Canarian Government will join the fray, or whether the Canarian High Court will overrule the judgment anyway, and they’re all subject anyway to the Constitutional Court in Madrid which has already confirmed the constitutional legality of the Canarian Government’s legislation.
.
So Canarian law remains unaffected by this minor court verdict. So inspections very much continue to be legal, as do fines. The position is unchanged. The ruling by the eastern provincial court about Lanzarote is just about the refusal of that island’s Cabildo’s to designate certain residential plots as touristic. It doesn’t affect Canarian tourism law at all. At least not just by virtue of that judgment.
.
I am not trying to downplay the verdict, just put it in perspective, but you will see (I hope) that it is very very easy to overplay the ruling!
essexeddie
02-11-2014, 20:17
I stopped renting due to all the hassle. Mind you I'm glad I did now as we can come and go when we please.
I felt I was keeping everybody employed
designzilla
05-11-2014, 23:40
Well just read through quite a few pages and I'm still none the wiser, can we let or not?
Well just read through quite a few pages and I'm still none the wiser, can we let or not?
Basically in eu law yes in canary/ Spain law no. Canary Spain will have to accept eu law in the end so ultimately you are in the right to rent and fully legal.
If it's legal in the Lake District or North Yorkshire or anywhere else to rent your holiday home then under eu law harmony must prevail , it has to be likewise legal in canaries/ Spain .
kingbaker
06-11-2014, 08:57
It's called the Treaty of Rome and it's still in force since the 50's.
Google it.
The Spanish are one of the worst offenders implementing EU law. It may take some time.
Basically in eu law yes in canary/ Spain law no. Canary Spain will have to accept eu law in the end so ultimately you are in the right to rent and fully legal.
If it's legal in the Lake District or North Yorkshire or anywhere else to rent your holiday home then under eu law harmony must prevail , it has to be likewise legal in canaries/ Spain .
Not quite ....http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/07/airbnb-fined-illegal-tourist-lets-barcelona-catalonia
Website among eight fined for breaching law requiring any property rented to tourists to be on Catalonia's tourism registry
No one seems to be claiming EU law in Barcelona
Not quite ....http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/07/airbnb-fined-illegal-tourist-lets-barcelona-catalonia
Website among eight fined for breaching law requiring any property rented to tourists to be on Catalonia's tourism registry
No one seems to be claiming EU law in Barcelona
It's up to the accused , it's a long legal drag , national courts have to be exhausted first , from lowest to highest court ,then after that if the defendant carries on it ends up in the europeon court.
In uk highest court is House of Lords. Remember Abu wotsusname , uk govt tried to send him to Jorden to face trial , after exhausting uk courts and losing he took his case to Europe and won! They said he should not be sent back to Jorden as might not get a fair trial.
That's how it works Doreen , lesser national courts going against eu law can not be said to have got the law right until the eu supports them. The lanzarote villas case of course has found those judges in accord with eu law.
Not quite ....http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/07/airbnb-fined-illegal-tourist-lets-barcelona-catalonia
Website among eight fined for breaching law requiring any property rented to tourists to be on Catalonia's tourism registry
No one seems to be claiming EU law in Barcelona
I am having Deja Vu here.
About 4 years ago there was a thread started on the OLD forum entitled, more or less, 'Finally something happening about illegal letting in Tenerife?'
We all know what has happened since.
I went to the Grand Prix in Barcelona this year.
We booked 4 nights in an apartment, less than 100 metres from the Sagrada Famillia. Excellent value at €40 per night. Booked through airbnb. My 'friend' met us outside at the appointed hour, and has since become almost family.
They have also said that any 'friend of mine is a friends of theirs'. Link available on request, and don't worry, because the poster of the original thread on the OLD forum, became a champion of all those fined after the original fiasco in Tenerife, still to be FINALLY resolved, and, as I recall, any 'FINE' has or will be returned
Airbnb are awaiting contact with bated breath.
Lets see how it evolves over the next 4 years.
designzilla
08-11-2014, 10:33
Thanks for all your replies.
So how do people get round it?
Can I at least rent to family and friends?
What do you actually get fined for doing?
Thanks
If you start at page 1 of this thread, you'll see that many owners were fined upwards of e18,000, after turismo trawled sites such as owners direct for adverts. The government insist that only touristic designated complexes, with the appropriate licence and sole agent could rent out.
Then much debate ensued, even lawyers disagreeing. At some point, the canarian courts threw out the case of some non licenced agents (not sole agents) quoting European law ( specifically Bolkestein!, which is to do with equal trade throughout Europe ). Some months later when some cases were due in court, a judge asked if the interested parties could come to an agreement where all the "transgressors" would pay a reduced fine and reduce the court time in much duplicated cases. Shortly afterwards, all fines were deemed to have been "quashed", but still the people who had been fined had to apply for an official letter saying their fine was not now payable. The reason quoted was that the "evidence" of an internet advert was not sufficient proof of actual letting.
You would imagine then, that turismo would have another go at these people, however their seems to have been no mention of anyone having been fined since 2012, perhaps as one poster on here says recently, their job is done, having frightened off many, or maybe the pressure from the Hotel lobby has dissipated.
As yet, the European Law argument is still untested, the government here backing down at the last minute. As of the Barcelona issue with a "website" being fined, how on earth does a website get a fine ? Surely anyone with a domain and website can operate outside another country with impunity? How will any sanction work?
New draft regulations due shortly see a certain lady's web site sounds interesting
New draft regulations due shortly see a certain lady's web site sounds interesting
From said website:
"it will involve some sort of registration system with a number to be used in all circumstances of rental activity, and a series of conditions to be met before properties can be registered."
Did I not say that that´s what was going to happen many moons ago? I certainly did, but nobody listened.
It´s also just as well nobody listened to the certain lady´s advice for all owners to stop renting out immediately. What a sorry state the Canarian economy would be in by now.
But surely in a residential complex the community rules take precedence? If the community says no renting surely that applies and will continue to apply? I for one would not wish to live in a residential complex where every other apartment was a holiday let.
Ecky Thump
10-11-2014, 16:14
But surely in a residential complex the community rules take precedence? If the community says no renting surely that applies and will continue to apply? I for one would not wish to live in a residential complex where every other apartment was a holiday let.
Who would you rather have as a next door neighbour, a couple who are there for two weeks holiday and occasionally wake you up at two in the morning or a couple who own the apartment or have a six month rental contract and have arguments every night and a dog that barks insesently!?
My choice would be the odd noisy holiday maker!
Who would you rather have as a next door neighbour, a couple who are there for two weeks holiday and occasionally wake you up at two in the morning or a couple who own the apartment or have a six month rental contract and have arguments every night and a dog that barks insesently!?
My choice would be the odd noisy holiday maker!
I know you can't choose your neighbours, but personally I would still rather know who my neighbours are rather than have a constant stream of noisy holidaymakers.
personally I would still rather know who my neighbours are rather than have a constant stream of noisy holidaymakers.
Your stereotyping of all tourists does you no favours. We can only assume then that you are a noisy holidaymaker when you visit Tenerife.
Your stereotyping of all tourists does you no favours. We can only assume then that you are a noisy holidaymaker when you visit Tenerife.
The issue of noisy tourist or resident is always either way. As I have said many many times before , on our place the tourists tend to be older swallows , they are long term friends of many of the older long term residential people . Occasionally a renter may bring some nutters onto the complex who walk on the grass at times and might be loud around the pool. As you say this hassle soon passes as their holidays end and peace can return.
A noisy resident or anti social one is a permanent hassle .
Yes I know what you mean, we must be the unlucky ones, but our Russian neighbours have a constant stream of 'friends' using their apartment, and believe me even the grey haired Russians can party 'till 5am! Not to mention having a fish smoker on the balcony.... Actually the apartment owners are lovely people, but some of their visitors have no consideration at all.
So there are good points and bad points to visitors and neighbours.
When you first buy an apartment you have to decide whether you want one on a quiet residential complex - where you might get bored and may not have good neighbours, or on a Tourist complex where you get the occasional rowdy guests but otherwise meet lots of people and there is usually plenty going on.
One way to overcome the problem, if you can afford it and it becomes available, is to buy the apartment next door and put a long let of your own choice in there
who you know will be a good neighbour.
There has been an update posted on JA site about a new type of inspection and the possible outcome of the revised draft of the law.
There has been an update posted on JA site about a new type of inspection and the possible outcome of the revised draft of the law.
From Janet's website
We are on the verge of seeing the draft of the private letting regulation that the Canarian government is about to introduce, with most legal and tourism experts now believing that the regulation will be minor and highly restrictive, covering no more than 25% of the current private letting market. This will comply with the requirement in recent urban letting legislation for autonomous communities to regulate all types of rentals - and it is this which is behind the tourism law amendment, of course (link), though the regional government has been able to make itself appear to be listening to pressure groups like Ascav and Alotca.
So apart from the small minority of lettings that are likely to be able to become legal tourist rentals, the rest is expected to be banned, and so to remain illegal, and I can now confirm that illegal letting inspectors are not only continuing their work, but fines are also still being issued for lack of tourist paperwork, complaints book etc. The inspectorate has taken on board the judgments in favour of Alotca’s appeals, and is doing what the courts demanded: they cannot just take an advert off the internet and issue a fine on that basis as they were doing previously, but an internet advert can serve as a trigger for a more rigorous inspection.
At least one way in which the inspectors are being “more rigorous” is to pose as tourism quality researchers, knocking on doors in pairs with questionnaires and an independent witness, e.g. residential community president, tourism complex agent. etc. Welcoming the occupant to Tenerife, they ask about quality, services, cost, efficiency, all while implying that this is to benefit Tenerife’s tourism – which in their view, of course, it does.
This questionnaire has no legal standing in and of itself, but because it is filled out voluntarily in the presence of a witness, it is integrated into a formal report and denuncia. It is not difficult to imagine how hard it would be to construct a successful defence against that. Owners are in a difficult position, therefore: they either have to tell their “guests” to refuse to fill in questionnaires, with inevitable and possibly awkward explanations, or they should advise their guests that they might be visited by “tourism inspectors” and encourage participation as an occupant resulting from a “personal agreement”.
Guests are asked to sign the questionnaires, and one thing that should be added specifically is that the letting is a private arrangement with no tourist services being supplied. This is far from satisfactory, and guarantees nothing in terms of a successful appeal in the case of a fine, but it will be better than nothing. Clearly the only safe thing to do is not to let illegally, and those who feel they have to continue should at least be very careful not to advertise in such a way that these inspections are triggered. Of course I’ll post about the draft regulation as soon as I have the information to hand.
Angusjim
29-11-2014, 17:41
Is above a legal post:whistle::whistle::laugh:
martincrabb99
29-11-2014, 19:45
Is above a legal post:whistle::whistle::laugh:
I don't know but I like it[emoji3]
designzilla
29-11-2014, 19:52
We should all stop renting, no renters equals no people which equals no money spent in businesses, no money spent in businesses equals a collapse in economy, businesses go bust so no money to the government, the government suffers then finally they will realise what a big mess they've made equals we can all rent, in an ideal world extreme measures are the only way, realistically this will never happen. The golf is already like a ghost town! They would be better to enforce some sort of tax for renters hence more money for them. I maybe talking out of turn as I haven't read all 700 pages lol.
We should all stop renting, no renters equals no people which equals no money spent in businesses, no money spent in businesses equals a collapse in economy, businesses go bust so no money to the government, the government suffers then finally they will realise what a big mess they've made equals we can all rent, in an ideal world extreme measures are the only way, realistically this will never happen. The golf is already like a ghost town! They would be better to enforce some sort of tax for renters hence more money for them. I maybe talking out of turn as I haven't read all 700 pages lol.
Think you have more or less got it right despite not having read the 700 pages.
Angusjim
30-11-2014, 09:14
Think you have more or less got it right despite not having read the 700 pages.
Whilst many agree with this, fact is according to the illegal post above major changes are not on the way so whats your thoughts on the post:tiphat:
Whilst many agree with this, fact is according to the illegal post above major changes are not on the way so whats your thoughts on the post:tiphat:
I know you've not asked for my thoughts AJ but here they are anyway....lol
Overall view: Nothing has changed. Underground letting will have to remain where it is. And it will, and it will thrive.....
Now if they seriously think that, after being thrown out of court for trying to capture the offenders by using internet pages, they'll have any more success in court by "dressing up" as tourist information people then somebody's going to be very disappointed. It's like a pantomime.
Yes there will be some Agents that will happily show them where the offenders are but not all. Let's omit the agents who don't want any more units to deal with because they're busy enough as it is.
Then omit the agents who are happy with the status quo.
Then there are the sites where there is no agent at all. They'll get little or no help there.
I'm sure there's a more business like, sensible way to collect the information they require. Passing yourself off as someone else is a bit of a risk against a good lawyer.
They appear to have started another "Keystone Cops" campaign and announcing it all over the internet just about says it all....lol....:tiphat:
Angusjim
30-11-2014, 10:16
I know you've not asked for my thoughts AJ but here they are anyway....lol
Overall view: Nothing has changed. Underground letting will have to remain where it is. And it will, and it will thrive.....
Now if they seriously think that, after being thrown out of court for trying to capture the offenders by using internet pages, they'll have any more success in court by "dressing up" as tourist information people then somebody's going to be very disappointed. It's like a pantomime.
Yes there will be some Agents that will happily show them where the offenders are but not all. Let's omit the agents who don't want any more units to deal with because they're busy enough as it is.
Then omit the agents who are happy with the status quo.
Then there are the sites where there is no agent at all. They'll get little or no help there.
I'm sure there's a more business like, sensible way to collect the information they require. Passing yourself off as someone else is a bit of a risk against a good lawyer.
They appear to have started another "Keystone Cops" campaign and announcing it all over the internet just about says it all....lol....:tiphat:
Spoken like a true illegal renter:crylaughing::wave:
every cloud has a silver lining,there,s a couple of local lawyers who have already put their orders in for new top of the range beamers:whistle:
We paid less tax when we were renting than now we are paying the 'non letting tax'! When you could put costs through and with a good accountant it wasnt that difficult! We did only rent out during the summer, got a great place on the back of it now!
martincrabb99
30-11-2014, 12:46
every cloud has a silver lining,there,s a couple of local lawyers who have already put their orders in for new top of the range beamers:whistle:
And so true!
seanocelt
30-11-2014, 17:42
We should all stop renting, no renters equals no people which equals no money spent in businesses, no money spent in businesses equals a collapse in economy, businesses go bust so no money to the government, the government suffers then finally they will realise what a big mess they've made equals we can all rent, in an ideal world extreme measures are the only way, realistically this will never happen. The golf is already like a ghost town! They would be better to enforce some sort of tax for renters hence more money for them. I maybe talking out of turn as I haven't read all 700 pages lol.
I work in Golf Del Sur twice a week. Ghost town? Been a very very busy year.
Whilst many agree with this, fact is according to the illegal post above major changes are not on the way so whats your thoughts on the post:tiphat:
I was not expecting a sensible individual letting scenario to appear from the canary govt review. Ascav the canary campaign group have lobbied for this , but really how could the canary govt bring about such a u turn from their current ridiculous position on holiday home renting?
One often brushed over aspect of the new draft law is the banning of residenting in the touristic complexs , there's going to be sole agents taking over , failure to appoint yourselves leads to one being appointed by the govt. this aspect of the new law is starting to rattle some of the new incomers on our place who have bought up the Brits apartments who abandoned renting to tourists and sold up.its going to be the new topic for criticising the estate agents / lawyers, people buying on a touristic complex and not realising that they won't be allowed to live in the place.
martincrabb99
01-12-2014, 11:04
On my complex they are going through the procedure to obtain a Touristic licence but they require a 100% sign up to do this. They have sent a document to ALL owners to sign a document ' CEDING ' their property to a sole agent. I and others will not sign this document as we do not rent and never have done. I am not a resident and pay non-residential tax. I have been informed by a committee member who I trust and who is a full time resident that she may not to be able to continue living on the complex if a Touristic Licence is granted. I consider that the whole issue is being dealt with in a Stalinistic way and common sense like most things in life should prevail. If owners want to rent their apartments to be legal they will be required to register with the appointed ' Sole Agent ' I do not rent and will not register as requested nor will I alter the interior of my property to comply with the so called safety requirements for renting such as fire retardant curtains, shatterproof mirrors, beds of a certain length, luggage racks etc, etc. I think the AGM in February will be quite interesting to say the least.
I am I favour of a touristic licence so those who wish to rent are allowed to do so but do not comprehend the methodology of ALL owners having to CEDE their properties to a sole agent. Legal advice will be the next step unless common sense prevails. I think the complex should be split into those who wish to rent and they should sign the register and those who do not who should not be required to sign a register as they only use their apartments for private use, and for use by relatives and close friends.
I have over the years read many comments on the illegal lettings on both this site and the JA site. It seems that according to some well considered comments that if you own a touristic apartment, then you are entitled under the Spanish Constitutional Laws to be able to use it for residential purposes. However the current and proposed tourist laws appear to suggest otherwise, so there seems to be some potential conflict, but hopefully the constitutional law would take preference.
If any non letting apartment owner is in doubt about what may happen, then they should vigorously oppose their complex becoming touristic and being controlled by some sole agent.
On my complex they are going through the procedure to obtain a Touristic licence but they require a 100% sign up to do this. They have sent a document to ALL owners to sign a document ' CEDING ' their property to a sole agent. I and others will not sign this document as we do not rent and never have done. I am not a resident and pay non-residential tax. I have been informed by a committee member who I trust and who is a full time resident that she may not to be able to continue living on the complex if a Touristic Licence is granted. I consider that the whole issue is being dealt with in a Stalinistic way and common sense like most things in life should prevail. If owners want to rent their apartments to be legal they will be required to register with the appointed ' Sole Agent ' I do not rent and will not register as requested nor will I alter the interior of my property to comply with the so called safety requirements for renting such as fire retardant curtains, shatterproof mirrors, beds of a certain length, luggage racks etc, etc. I think the AGM in February will be quite interesting to say the least.
I am I favour of a touristic licence so those who wish to rent are allowed to do so but do not comprehend the methodology of ALL owners having to CEDE their properties to a sole agent. Legal advice will be the next step unless common sense prevails. I think the complex should be split into those who wish to rent and they should sign the register and those who do not who should not be required to sign a register as they only use their apartments for private use, and for use by relatives and close friends.
If you do not sign the document, then there will be no Touristic licence for your complex as that is the way the planning law is structured at the moment. There is no other way to obtain a licence without 100% of owners agreeing to it.
As to the new law proposed last year, hopefully the "interpretation" that is promised shortly will cover the position of people living full time on Touristic Complexes. As new member sunray states, it is unlikely such a law could in fact overturn your constitutional rights.
Yes the situation is incredible if the canary govt are bringing in a law which is totally against the Spanish constitution.
Of course if the new law is made law in the canaries there will then be no need at all for the 100 per cent vote to bring about the sole agent . Under the new law the complex would either appoint their own sole agent or the govt would impose one. After that anyone caught residenting in the complex would be fined 35,000 euro first offence!!!
I would say 100% is unconstitutional. Should be more than 50% and having a sole agent is also undemocratic that lacks choice.
kingbaker
02-12-2014, 22:19
I suspect it would not be legal under EU law. Member States are supposed to dismantle monopolies, not create new ones.There is an EU directive on this, if someone wants to look it up.;)
About turn by Canarian Government on Private Rentals .... sort of ...
The new draft regulations regarding private rentals have just been published ... you will need to go to Janet's site for a link to the Spanish text.
First hurdle will be that any private rental in a Residental complex will have to be approved by the Community.
The Sole Agent system still applies for Touristic apartments.
You will need to register (no fees mentioned yet) ... charge IGIC (local VAT), give details to police of passports etc
Obviously minimum requirements re fittings & fixtures.
Previous thoughts re villas having to be 200 m from the sea etc not included.
Altamira
13-12-2014, 11:53
Hello Doreen
Many thanks for the information update, I am interested in how this may affect residential apartments. In order to get the communities approval, would that vote need to be 100% or the 60% (3/5) of owners?
Hello Doreen
Many thanks for the information update, I am interested in how this may affect residential apartments. In order to get the communities approval, would that vote need to be 100% or the 60% (3/5) of owners?
That was my first thought reading it, but it does not say ... just roughly ... when it is a property that falls under the Horizontal Property Law (i.e. in a complex rather than stand alone) then any touristic use must in all cases have the authorisation of the Community of Owners.
I think these draft proposals are now open to discussion by the various groups and then further regulations will be necessary for the details to be clarified.
It doesn't actually state the Sole Agent continues, but is implied by saying these proposals do not relate to any Touristic property covered by the 142/2010 Decree
It doesnt really set out what exactly the new rules are or go into much detail but any "relaxation" of the letting laws is a positive sign.
And I couldnt find the annexe which was referred to in the document. Checked Ascav´s site and FB page but no updates from them either.
Waiting for the legal interpretation / consensus which I suppose may take into next week now.
It doesnt really set out what exactly the new rules are or go into much detail but any "relaxation" of the letting laws is a positive sign.
And I couldnt find the annexe which was referred to in the document. Checked Ascav´s site and FB page but no updates from them either.
Waiting for the legal interpretation / consensus which I suppose may take into next week now.
I think we will be looking at longer than next week for clarification, CIM.
The Annex, I believe, is just a copy of the "placa" ... plaque with registration number to be displayed outside the property.
There certainly will be a lot to be discussed - thinking of the situation in Palm Mar which was formally only Residential, I know of one complex where the President is vehemently against private letting and has majority support, so no approval there etc.
Does this mean the Statutes of the Community need to be changed or just each particular application submitted to an AGM etc etc
I think we will be looking at longer than next week for clarification, CIM.
The Annex, I believe, is just a copy of the "placa" ... plaque with registration number to be displayed outside the property.
There certainly will be a lot to be discussed - thinking of the situation in Palm Mar which was formally only Residential, I know of one complex where the President is vehemently against private letting and has majority support, so no approval there etc.
Does this mean the Statutes of the Community need to be changed or just each particular application submitted to an AGM etc etc
That was my first thought , each owner just asking the community at agm, they do that on our place for people who want a front pathway accross the lawned community garden . Basically years ago the president let a mate do that without permission , it's just silly and causes hassle for the lawn moving . We all have entrance doors at the back . Anyway after complaints they decided all could have one subject to agm approval . No one had a vote just implied support at agm. Today there are around three other such pathways .
As you see it's wait and see , permission may be easy if the majority favour letting , it may not require 100per cent approval like the former law .
Surely zoning should play a part in such decisions?
El Mirador, Dinastia, Sur y Sol in Los Cristianos are centrally located and perfect for tourist lets. People living on these whining about tourists really should have thought about buying further away from the nucleus of touristic areas.
You´ll also inevitable have the problem of biased presidents swaying things as much as possible towards their own personal agenda.
If a précis / analysis appears online of the probable impact of this document, please do post a link!
Surely zoning should play a part in such decisions?
El Mirador, Dinastia, Sur y Sol in Los Cristianos are centrally located and perfect for tourist lets. People living on these whining about tourists really should have thought about buying further away from the nucleus of touristic areas.
You´ll also inevitable have the problem of biased presidents swaying things as much as possible towards their own personal agenda.
If a précis / analysis appears online of the probable impact of this document, please do post a link!
Location will not matter as much as presidential position backed up by the presidents voting block. There are bound to be odd situations where prime tourist zone complex have a majority against letting and also poorly located complex but there may be a majority in favour of letting. We all have to wait and see now just how the different complex emerge from this , those that opt for letting may become prime properties with a tremendous resale potential based on the ability to tourist rent. On the complex where renting is not allowed there may be a lower resale price .
It looks like everyone everywhere will at least be able to ask their community for permission to tourist let.
The sooner some clarity is established the better!
At the moment trying to explain this utterly ridiculous mess of a system to those not familiar with it is a bloody nightmare!
Buyers inevitably way up Tenerife with its hodge podge of messy legislation with other locations and inevitably vote with their feet! I dread to think how many sales I have lost after explaining the current status quo to people.
The sooner some clarity is established the better!
At the moment trying to explain this utterly ridiculous mess of a system to those not familiar with it is a bloody nightmare!
Buyers inevitably way up Tenerife with its hodge podge of messy legislation with other locations and inevitably vote with their feet! I dread to think how many sales I have lost after explaining the current status quo to people.
It's been a period of complete madness , incredible economic damage to the islands economy and harm to jobs for the canary population . Let's hope that this draft now marks a return to sanity and that the legal holiday home letting now returns and a surge in investment in canary properties may result .
Angusjim
14-12-2014, 08:16
So there is a chance that Ecky & Marbro holidays will be legal soon:lol:
welshman
15-12-2014, 23:35
Just log on after many months / may be a year haven't been out to the Reef for health reasons. I see the situation has still not been resolved !! How much damage has been done or being done I do miss my visits hope in the new year to visit.
Merry Christmas to all and may the sun continue to shine������
Ecky Thump
15-12-2014, 23:46
So there is a chance that Ecky & Marbro holidays will be legal soon:lol:
Does that mean that marbro8 will have to disown his many-many cousins in Tenerife!:p
So there is a chance that Ecky & Marbro holidays will be legal soon:lol:if that's the case i don't want to go again:lol:
Angusjim
16-12-2014, 13:19
if that's the case i don't want to go again:lol:
I am staying at Ecky's Welsh cousin's apartment in March is she your cousin as well:dontknow::doh:
Ecky Thump
16-12-2014, 13:36
I am staying at Ecky's Welsh cousin's apartment in March is she your cousin as well:dontknow::doh:
I think you are getting a bit confused, you are staying at my Aunty's apartment and I'm staying at her daughters apartment.....it's always a bit confusing when you have lots of relatives living in Tenerife.??????
Angusjim
16-12-2014, 13:38
I think you are getting a bit confused, you are staying at my Aunty's apartment and I'm staying at her daughters apartment.....it's always a bit confusing when you have lots of relatives living in Tenerife.??????
Ah its always very confusing speaking about Welsh families many are very close :lol:
Ecky Thump
16-12-2014, 13:44
Ah its always very confusing speaking about Welsh Families many are very close :lol:
Baaaa
..:p
seanocelt
16-12-2014, 17:46
A N D ...................ANOTHER thread descends into drivel.
martincrabb99
16-12-2014, 18:34
You make a valid point, I have contributed to this discussion and it is a serious discussion thread.....I'm sure it will get back on track.
Angusjim
16-12-2014, 19:02
A N D ...................ANOTHER thread descends into drivel.
Agreed Sean but the drivel is better than some of the posts earlier in this thread directed mainly against Nelson from some members
I am staying at Ecky's Welsh cousin's apartment in March is she your cousin as well:dontknow::doh:me and eric are more like brothers so yes;)
Ecky Thump
16-12-2014, 19:51
me and eric are more like brothers so yes;)
Well we both dribble or is it post drivel!:wink:
For information JA has put her own translation of the draft law on her web site.
Red Devil
16-12-2014, 22:50
Hmmm.... A difficult read, thats for sure.
Will be interesting to see how "authorisation from the community of owners" will be applied to each individual application for tourist letting on a "residential" complex. Will it be up to the committee? On what grounds would they be able to refuse an application? Many, many questions to come.
Nightmare for estate agents trying to explain this one to a buyer :D
Its rather clever to insist that all advertising has to include the official registration number of the property, it will be easy to go through the internet now and catch people!
I wonder how long it will take to get all these properties registered and checked that they come up to standard, it will be a lot of work for the owners specially if they are in the UK. They may have all the requirements in their apartments but getting the paperwork sorted is likely to be a nightmare!
The requirements are no different than we have complied with in the UK for many years.
Hmmm.... A difficult read, thats for sure.
Will be interesting to see how "authorisation from the community of owners" will be applied to each individual application for tourist letting on a "residential" complex. Will it be up to the committee? On what grounds would they be able to refuse an application? Many, many questions to come.
Nightmare for estate agents trying to explain this one to a buyer :D
Regarding residential apartments and getting authorization to operate touristic letting from the community of residential owners. I think whatever happens it will need to be in accordance with the Horizontal Property Laws and according to these laws for making changes, there are different levels of approval firstly some may need 60% (3/5) or in other cases 100%, this is particularly relevant if an objecting owner is directly affected by the change of use of a neighbouring apartment from residential to touristic and if the community was to somehow give permission, then the objecting owner may be able to take the community to court.
Ecky Thump
17-12-2014, 11:59
A N D ...................ANOTHER thread descends into drivel.
A N D a Off Topic post!!:nono:
Red Devil
17-12-2014, 12:48
Regarding residential apartments and getting authorization to operate touristic letting from the community of residential owners. I think whatever happens it will need to be in accordance with the Horizontal Property Laws and according to these laws for making changes, there are different levels of approval firstly some may need 60% (3/5) or in other cases 100%, this is particularly relevant if an objecting owner is directly affected by the change of use of a neighbouring apartment from residential to touristic and if the community was to somehow give permission, then the objecting owner may be able to take the community to court.
That is the interesting thing, it hasnt been clarified yet what level of permissiom will be needed.
However I cant see on what grounds a neighbour could now complain if lettings were operating legally next door. What could the complaint be about that isnt already covered by community rules such as late night noise etc?
If the apartment was fitted out to the criteria required and owners would at last be able to pay tax legally it would mean there would be suitable places for the longer term holidaymakers to stay and the tourist sites could be used by the large holiday companies.
Win win all round I say.
Hmmm.... A difficult read, thats for sure.
Will be interesting to see how "authorisation from the community of owners" will be applied to each individual application for tourist letting on a "residential" complex. Will it be up to the committee? On what grounds would they be able to refuse an application? Many, many questions to come.
Nightmare for estate agents trying to explain this one to a buyer :D
There is only mentioned “In the case of dwellings subject to horizontal property law its destination for touristic use will require in every case authorization of the community of owners”.
The change that this clause refers in any way to properties on a residential complex that can be used for tourist letting is in my opinion close to zero.
I think that this has probably something to do with tourist complexes that lost their tourist license and that, to get back the license, authorization is necessary from the community of owners (touristic complexes are also subject to the horizontal property law).
Angusjim
17-12-2014, 13:39
So can someone like say CIM come on and give us in there opinion or the opinion of there lawyers what this draft legislation actually means to renting out on non touristic complexes.:dontknow:
Hi,
I'm new here and I still don't have an answer to a question though I have a friend living there for more than one year.
I'm not a very good English speaker so I'll try to present the case: if I rent for lets say three years a villa and than after I rent rooms by week, is this legal or not? I know people doing this and nobody have suffered by now any consequences...
Thank you!
Well at least the Canarian gouverment won't have to wurry about the Russian market anymore as it will be finished with the implosian of the Rouble currency .
Red Devil
17-12-2014, 16:35
There is only mentioned “In the case of dwellings subject to horizontal property law its destination for touristic use will require in every case authorization of the community of owners”.
The change that this clause refers in any way to properties on a residential complex that can be used for tourist letting is in my opinion close to zero.
I think that this has probably something to do with tourist complexes that lost their tourist license and that, to get back the license, authorization is necessary from the community of owners (touristic complexes are also subject to the horizontal property law).
You could well be right, but if that was the reason would they also not make other specifications, such as lifeguard, 24 hour reception etc, (the same as a touristic site needs already) yet they have not mentioned those, also why would individual registration numbers then be necessary? Hopefully we will have some clarification shortly.
You could well be right, but if that was the reason would they also not make other specifications, such as lifeguard, 24 hour reception etc, (the same as a touristic site needs already) yet they have not mentioned those, also why would individual registration numbers then be necessary? Hopefully we will have some clarification shortly.
The new draft does not appear to exclude residential apartments, they would just need to get the community permission and according to the existing Horizontal Property Laws that would need to be at least 60% (3/5) of owners, however if it was approved and it was detrimental to some apartment owner, then they could take the community to court. I think in many cases it will be very difficult for a residential apartment owner to get permission.
Red Devil
17-12-2014, 17:19
The new draft does not appear to exclude residential apartments, they would just need to get the community permission and according to the existing Horizontal Property Laws that would need to be at least 60% (3/5) of owners, however if it was approved and it was detrimental to some apartment owner, then they could take the community to court. I think in many cases it will be very difficult for a residential apartment owner to get permission.
Take the community to court over what, exactly, though? If you meant it could be detrimental as regards to noise, disturbance etc, then normal community rules cover those instances anyway.
Take the community to court over what, exactly, though? If you meant it could be detrimental as regards to noise, disturbance etc, then normal community rules cover those instances anyway.
I was briefly mentioning what it says in the Horizontal Property Laws and I would think such a complaint to the courts would depend on the specific circumstances, but I would imagine it could cover many different types of complaint where the residential community management was perceived to be unable to control the behavior of some undesirable tourists. I could easily imagine a situation where an owner has only purchased an apartment because it was in a residential complex and they may then vigorously object to having their complex overrun with tourists or a weekly change over of tourists in the neighbouring apartments.
There is only mentioned “In the case of dwellings subject to horizontal property law its destination for touristic use will require in every case authorization of the community of owners”.
The change that this clause refers in any way to properties on a residential complex that can be used for tourist letting is in my opinion close to zero.
I think that this has probably something to do with tourist complexes that lost their tourist license and that, to get back the license, authorization is necessary from the community of owners (touristic complexes are also subject to the horizontal property law).
René, this whole draft is to do with Residential complexes: ¨touristic use¨here being advertised short term rentals, rather than Touristic complexes offering accommodation and tourism services (by the Sole Agent).. I believe complexes with lapsed licences are not covered by this draft (my opinion).
Sadly, I believe interested parties (Ashotel etc) will do their best to see that 100% approval is required.
-----------------------
And to the poster suggesting renting out rooms short term in a villa - no, this is specifically prohibited in these regulations (Art 4.1)
Red Devil
17-12-2014, 19:24
I was briefly mentioning what it says in the Horizontal Property Laws and I would think such a complaint to the courts would depend on the specific circumstances, but I would imagine it could cover many different types of complaint where the residential community management was perceived to be unable to control the behavior of some undesirable tourists. I could easily imagine a situation where an owner has only purchased an apartment because it was in a residential complex and they may then vigorously object to having their complex overrun with tourists or a weekly change over of tourists in the neighbouring apartments.
Sorry but I cant agree with you there Sunray, normal civilised behaviour is expected anywhere, even on tourist complexes, not just residential ones.
I also think that it is strange buying somewhere in Tenerifes largest tourist region and expect residents only living there. If I purchased in the heart of the Lake District I couldnt complain if tourists were there also.:D
Sorry but I cant agree with you there Sunray, normal civilised behaviour is expected anywhere, even on tourist complexes, not just residential ones.
I also think that it is strange buying somewhere in Tenerifes largest tourist region and expect residents only living there. If I purchased in the heart of the Lake District I couldnt complain if tourists were there also.
The problem is not with my opinion but with the authorities they gave some complexes permission to be built for tourism purposes and others for residential purposes. I chose many years ago to buy on a tourist complex, but I am beginning to regret that (my fault), so I am now thinking about purchasing within a well managed residential complex (no tourists). However I don't want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire, so if there is any doubt about what may happen, then I may decide to do something else. Most normal persons look to the laws for guidance, but this is Tenerife and the authorities appear to be creating confusing laws that no one truly understands.
Red Devil
17-12-2014, 21:35
Couldnt sgree with you more on that one sunray, we bought 15 years ago on a complex complete with reception etc and was assured by solicitor, estate agent etc etc that renting would be no problem. Ha, it was residential and the law (or obtuse interpretation of it) has caused nothing but confusion for everyone.
KirstyJay
03-01-2015, 01:51
I have just seen a new website that is a 'sister' site of fotocasa.es but is of a similar vain to airbnb. https://www.tripwell.com (https://www.tripwell.com/map/?start=0&limit=10&from_date=&to_date=&sleeps=1&sort_by=nightly&from_price=0&to_price=&search_term=Tenerife,%20Santa%20Cruz%20de%20Teneri fe,%20Spain&country_code=&bound_north_east_lat=28.5886133&bound_north_east_lng=-16.119470200000023&bound_south_west_lat=27.9978438&bound_south_west_lng=-16.925965899999937)
I don't understand how sites like this can exist if the letting laws state that you cannot rent out on a residential complex, or am I missing something? There are many apartments advertised in La Laguna and Santa Cruz... and surely they are not touristic? They are self-lets not through a sole agent...
I have just seen a new website that is a 'sister' site of fotocasa.es but is of a similar vain to airbnb. https://www.tripwell.com (https://www.tripwell.com/map/?start=0&limit=10&from_date=&to_date=&sleeps=1&sort_by=nightly&from_price=0&to_price=&search_term=Tenerife,%20Santa%20Cruz%20de%20Teneri fe,%20Spain&country_code=&bound_north_east_lat=28.5886133&bound_north_east_lng=-16.119470200000023&bound_south_west_lat=27.9978438&bound_south_west_lng=-16.925965899999937)
I don't understand how sites like this can exist if the letting laws state that you cannot rent out on a residential complex, or am I missing something? There are many apartments advertised in La Laguna and Santa Cruz... and surely they are not touristic? They are self-lets not through a sole agent...
I assume the operators of such websites are not based in the Canary Islands and therefore are not within the legal jurisdiction of Tenerife. However the owners of these apartments appear to be operating illegally in relation to tourist lets of residential or touristic apartments (unless via the sole agent within a touristic complex)
I have to take my hat off at certain owners on a certain tourist complex who tell me they do not rent out their apartments and only 'invite their close friends and family' to use it.
They are so kind to their close family and friends that they spend around £240 a year of their own money placing their apartment on Ownersdirect to let their friends and family know when its available.
I have to take my hat off at certain owners on a certain tourist complex who tell me they do not rent out their apartments and only 'invite their close friends and family' to use it.
They are so kind to their close family and friends that they spend around £240 a year of their own money placing their apartment on Ownersdirect to let their friends and family know when its available.
This sounds about right, I have spoken to some of these holiday makers and many of them do mention that they are now friends of the owner, but admit they have never met them! However many of the regular tourists & owners are very keen to form a friendship, even if it is only by telephone or email and all relevant background friendship information is exchanged.
This sounds about right, I have spoken to some of these holiday makers and many of them do mention that they are now friends of the owner, but admit they have never met them! However many of the regular tourists & owners are very keen to form a friendship, even if it is only by telephone or email and all relevant background friendship information is exchanged.
Well put !
I have also seen immediate friendships cemented by owners handing over their business cards around the pool.
Ecky Thump
03-01-2015, 16:31
This sounds about right, I have spoken to some of these holiday makers and many of them do mention that they are now friends of the owner, but admit they have never met them! However many of the regular tourists & owners are very keen to form a friendship, even if it is only by telephone or email and all relevant background friendship information is exchanged.
Looking at it from another perspective, some very strong friendships have formed after staying at one of the apartments that have been advertised on Owners Direct etc. and in this day and age, good friends are hard to find.:)
jogger321
03-01-2015, 17:40
Looking at it from another perspective, some very strong friendships have formed after staying at one of the apartments that have been advertised on Owners Direct etc. and in this day and age, good friends are hard to find.:)
And obviously you may as as a result find out about new family members that you previously were unaware of
Ecky Thump
03-01-2015, 18:08
And obviously you may as as a result find out about new family members that you previously were unaware of
I have a couple of cousins that I didn't know existed, but marbro8 has hoards of them....prolific breeders that live in Walsall.:whistle:
And obviously you may as as a result find out about new family members that you previously were unaware ofancestry uk is a wonderful thing:wink2:
translator
24-02-2015, 14:11
I have some concrete questions and I will appreciate answers and points of views to these.
Thank you.
1. Official clamping down on all short term rentals was a one time thing done in 2010, all over Spain and Canare islands,
or is it happening even now in 2015 with evictions, trials and cease and desist orders against the owners
who are renting out short term their own properties?
2. There is a negihbour who rented out his property on night by night basis to tourists, through ownersdirect,
and the tourists get drunk, create a lot of noise, problems, loud music, etc.
If I decide to report him for illegally renting out his rented apartment as a hotel, on night by night basis,
where I should do the reports against him?
Thank you very much
Anne Marie
princessmonika
25-02-2015, 07:44
report him to the tourist board i think
Leave him a note first to tell him your intentions, you could be lumbering him with a 13k fine. Although you are angry I think this is probably the best approach.
I have some concrete questions and I will appreciate answers and points of views to these.
Thank you.
1. Official clamping down on all short term rentals was a one time thing done in 2010, all over Spain and Canare islands,
or is it happening even now in 2015 with evictions, trials and cease and desist orders against the owners
who are renting out short term their own properties?
2. There is a negihbour who rented out his property on night by night basis to tourists, through ownersdirect,
and the tourists get drunk, create a lot of noise, problems, loud music, etc.
If I decide to report him for illegally renting out his rented apartment as a hotel, on night by night basis,
where I should do the reports against him?
Thank you very much
Anne Marie
Hello Anne Marie
Is the apartment within a residential complex or within a tourist complex?
translator
25-02-2015, 13:58
report him to the tourist board i think
what is a "tourist board" ?
the apartment is in a residential block of flats, most of the neighbours are local canarians
translator
12-04-2015, 18:37
nobody knows?
macdonald5
12-04-2015, 19:00
nobody knows?
Suspect 'Tourist Board ' ( Tourist word gives a little clue). might not be involved with a residential complex
karinagal
12-04-2015, 20:49
Suspect 'Tourist Board ' ( Tourist word gives a little clue). might not be involved with a residential complex
I think Monika meant that it should be reported to the inspectors who are hired to catch illegal renters..!
princessmonika
13-04-2015, 06:23
thank you karina yes thats what said
I think Monika meant that it should be reported to the inspectors who are hired to catch illegal renters..!
I suspect you denounce them to the police - you are accusing them of breaking the law. You can not do this anonymously.
princessmonika
13-04-2015, 07:08
i personally accuse nobody , and could not care less-- i just said, if someone has a problem with someone illegally renting there property they should report it --anonymously or not ?????
Angusjim
13-04-2015, 07:33
So whats happening with the clampdown is there any up to date news ?
i personally accuse nobody , and could not care less-- i just said, if someone has a problem with someone illegally renting there property they should report it --anonymously or not ?????
I agree with you it should be reported and I'm not saying you are accusing anybody.
I simply replied to whom I thought it should be reported to and if you denounce someone you have to give your name - thats how it works and as someone who lives in Tenerife I'm sure you know that.
So whats happening with the clampdown is there any up to date news ?
I'm bumping this because I'd like to know too......:tiphat:
martincrabb99
13-04-2015, 09:59
I'm bumping this because I'd like to know too......:tiphat:
Good morning TOTO 99......I think we are all waiting for the draft regulation to be amended prior to final approval and as such I am going to wait before making any further comment, otherwise I would be speculating and experience has shown me that what you expect can often be changed prior to publication.
Good morning TOTO 99......I think we are all waiting for the draft regulation to be amended prior to final approval and as such I am going to wait before making any further comment, otherwise I would be speculating and experience has shown me that what you expect can often be changed prior to publication.
I hear you Martin but if AJ is anything like me his question was not so much what the law is but is anyone doing anything about it?.....That's how I read it but I could be wrong..:tiphat:
It's a long long time since I heard anything regarding the inspectors. I wonder if they even still exist?
Hopefully someone will advise please?...
Ecky Thump
13-04-2015, 10:20
I hear you Martin but if AJ is anything like me his question was not so much what the law is but is anyone doing anything about it?.....That's how I read it but I could be wrong..:tiphat:
It's a long long time since I heard anything regarding the inspectors. I wonder if they even still exist?
Hopefully someone will advise please?...
It would appear that the local inspectors are used on various duties a few months ago they were watching and reporting bars for noise after a certain time in the evening, then measuring the pavement usage of restaurants, at another time for people putting their rubbish in the bins out with the permitted hours.....they should be renamed as "Revenue Collectors" for cash strapped local councils.
martincrabb99
13-04-2015, 11:21
I hear you Martin but if AJ is anything like me his question was not so much what the law is but is anyone doing anything about it?.....That's how I read it but I could be wrong..:tiphat:
It's a long long time since I heard anything regarding the inspectors. I wonder if they even still exist?
Hopefully someone will advise please?...
Well I assume that the REGULATIONS cannot be enforced until we know what the REGULATIONS are. If I was renting property that I owned I would comply with the regulations and Tax issues arising. If you fail to do this then you will be liable for the taxes not paid, interest and fines.
I assume that the Tourist Inspectors will be checking both residential and touristic complexes for breaches of the regulations and tax laws.
If you do not comply then I suppose you will be subject of scrutiny by the authorities.
I cannot answer your question about what is being done now but certainly when the final regulations are published I feel that scrutiny will be increased.
I hope this helps.
Well I assume that the REGULATIONS cannot be enforced until we know what the REGULATIONS are. If I was renting property that I owned I would comply with the regulations and Tax issues arising. If you fail to do this then you will be liable for the taxes not paid, interest and fines.
I assume that the Tourist Inspectors will be checking both residential and touristic complexes for breaches of the regulations and tax laws.
If you do not comply then I suppose you will be subject of scrutiny by the authorities.
I cannot answer your question about what is being done now but certainly when the final regulations are published I feel that scrutiny will be increased.
I hope this helps.
It's not like you to assume Martin...lol
What I was getting at is that all of the people I know who let illegally are back to business as usual. Some carried on right through but a couple did stop for a while. It's easy to fall back into it when everyone else is "getting away with it" for want of a better phrase.
The fact is, it's always been illegal for them to let but they didn't come under any scrutiny until now. I doubt the new version of the law will allow them to let but my money says that most will carry on regardless.
Ecky Thump
13-04-2015, 11:47
The fact is, it's always been illegal for them to let but they didn't come under any scrutiny until now. I doubt the new version of the law will allow them to let but my money says that most will carry on regardless.
An excerpt below from the start of this rekindled thread.......not much has changed, even after heavy fines were imposed, which I'm made to believe have never been paid.
"It started with an announcement in the papers in December 2010 that 17 new inspectors had been appointed to investigate illegal and hidden holiday lettings. We had reports of several letting agents being inspected, starting in February - some fines have been issued (and are being appealed as far as I know)"°
As a matter of interest and a serious question to Angusjim,
If you had found someone to take your timeshare at New Year, would that be legal or illegal do you know?
I've certainly not heard of any timeshare owners being fined or even checked up on but I'm guessing the practice must still go on?
martincrabb99
13-04-2015, 12:09
As a matter of interest and a serious question to Angusjim,
If you had found someone to take your timeshare at New Year, would that be legal or illegal do you know?
I've certainly not heard of any timeshare owners being fined or even checked up on but I'm guessing the practice must still go on?
A good question, I am not a resident but do own a property and I pay the tax due as a non resident....I do not let though.
Angusjim
13-04-2015, 12:19
As a matter of interest and a serious question to Angusjim,
If you had found someone to take your timeshare at New Year, would that be legal or illegal do you know?
I've certainly not heard of any timeshare owners being fined or even checked up on but I'm guessing the practice must still go on?
Diamond Resorts send a form for any week transfers which I fill in and return they approve it and as long as fees are up to date no problems. They are basically the sole agents on the site and it is touristic so don't see any issues, may be an issue if you just let some else use the apartment without completing the transfer form.:tiphat:
- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -
Ecky Thump, TOTO 99, marbro8 how does the sole agent on the complexes you visit deal with bookings:whistle::laugh:
Diamond Resorts send a form for any week transfers which I fill in and return they approve it and as long as fees are up to date no problems. They are basically the sole agents on the site and it is touristic so don't see any issues, may be an issue if you just let some else use the apartment without completing the transfer form.:tiphat:
- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -
Ecky Thump, TOTO 99, marbro8 how does the sole agent on the complexes you visit deal with bookings:whistle::laugh:
I can't answer for anyone else but I just give them the cash in the pub here in Warrington. Saves all that messing about....:laugh:
Angusjim
13-04-2015, 13:08
I can't answer for anyone else but I just give them the cash in the pub here in Warrington. Saves all that messing about....:laugh:
:c2::c2::crylaughing::crylaughing::crylaughing:
Ecky Thump
13-04-2015, 13:28
Ecky Thump, TOTO 99, marbro8 how does the sole agent on the complexes you visit deal with bookings:whistle::laugh:
When he/she picks us up in their limousine at the airport, I simply hand he/she a couple of litres of the finest Scottish Whisky and for some obscure reason then that seems to simplify all appertaining legal matters that may arise.:angel4:
When he/she picks us up in their limousine at the airport, I simply hand he/she a couple of litres of the finest Scottish Whisky and for some obscure reason then that seems to simplify all appertaining legal matters that may arise.:angel4:
So, not content with breaking the letting laws, they're drink driving as well....:laugh:
Diamond Resorts send a form for any week transfers which I fill in and return they approve it and as long as fees are up to date no problems. They are basically the sole agents on the site and it is touristic so don't see any issues, may be an issue if you just let some else use the apartment without completing the transfer form.:tiphat:
- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -
Ecky Thump, TOTO 99, marbro8 how does the sole agent on the complexes you visit deal with bookings:whistle::laugh:the complex doesn't need one because they are only let to friends and family:wink2::laugh:
Ecky Thump
13-04-2015, 16:15
the complex doesn't need one because they are only let to friends and family:wink2::laugh:
And between you and me, we must have at least twenty cousins there and I've lost count on the amount of close friends. Even Angusjim recently found that he had a cousin there and MM will be pleased to know that it was a Welsh one.:)
Update: "New 2013 tourism law was approved in full yesterday (21 of April 2015) by the Canarian parliament following its end-of-first-year review".
"Please be aware, to avoid confusion, that this new law has not "just been approved", it has been approved and in force since 2013! What has happened is that it has been ratified and confirmed with a few amendments (mainly in terms of hotel tourism), a procedure that's normal with Canarian law"
Information from you know where.
timmylish
23-04-2015, 12:55
Update: "New 2013 tourism law was approved in full yesterday (21 of April 2015) by the Canarian parliament following its end-of-first-year review".
"Please be aware, to avoid confusion, that this new law has not "just been approved", it has been approved and in force since 2013! What has happened is that it has been ratified and confirmed with a few amendments (mainly in terms of hotel tourism), a procedure that's normal with Canarian law"
Information from you know where.
Oh no! I,m just totally lost now. To whom should I apply any for clarification? Thank you.
So finally no legal renting out of residential dwellings and everything goes via a sole agent for tourist complexes.
So finally no legal renting out of residential dwellings and everything goes via a sole agent for tourist complexes.
Course it will........:laugh:
TONTOCULO
So finally no legal renting out of residential dwellings and everything goes via a sole agent for tourist complexes.
Ecky Thump
23-04-2015, 13:40
Update: "New 2013 tourism law was approved in full yesterday (21 of April 2015) by the Canarian parliament following its end-of-first-year review".
"Please be aware, to avoid confusion, that this new law has not "just been approved", it has been approved and in force since 2013! What has happened is that it has been ratified and confirmed with a few amendments (mainly in terms of hotel tourism), a procedure that's normal with Canarian law"
Information from you know where.
So, basically there is no change to the letting laws, only that there has been a review, confirmation and approval of the existing laws.???
martincrabb99
24-04-2015, 12:02
So, basically there is no change to the letting laws, only that there has been a review, confirmation and approval of the existing laws.???
A spot on assessment[emoji41]
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.4 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.