View Full Version : The Tenerife illegal lettings thread
What makes you so sure that deposits would be repaid in the event etc? Do you know all the owners of these illegally let apartments and know their ability to pay a €18k fine plus repay all payments and deposits taken, many are 12 months in advance? Another throw away remark. If I had prepaid, I would be very very nervous right now.
not a throwaway remark at all, I was trying to put Lef at ease a little and rather risk the wrath of "schadenfreude police" I thought I'd gently suggest he/she create a contingency plan as well. Doreens advice is better than mine to be honest - he or she should contact the owner.
Where is the official paperwork involved in making a booking on-line and where would a disgruntled client go to try to get their money back if an owner was unable or unwilling to make a refund. A British Court? A Spanish Court? And at what cost?
There is no official paperwork because the accommodation is illegal.
Of course I don't know all the owners individually I made that comment based on them been decent & honest human beings.
Perhaps the "victim" could take the owner to a small claims court if they are both UK residents and provide email correspondence and bank transfers as proof.
What about the people that have been fined so far? Do you think they should continue to 'honour their bookings' with the risk of an even bigger fine.
Personally I would stop now and reimburse the future bookings.
What are you doing for your clients????????
What I am I doing about what for my clients?
What I am I doing about what for my clients?
what are you doing about "this"?
I would also stop taking bookings and reimburse all money taken. I would stop all internet advertising and if I couldn't afford my apartment without letting, would put it on the market.
What I am I doing about what for my clients? I don't understand the question when you have already stated the agency (that my wife runs) Is LONG LET. As yet, as far as I am aware it is not illegal to let LONG LET apartments and hasn't been for the 20 years the agency has been running.
are you still accepting bookings for properties on residential sites such as Windsor Park?
What advice are you giving the owners of the apartments you rent out?
Are you reimbursing clients with existing bookings before you get fined and can't afford to?
are you still accepting bookings for properties on residential sites such as Windsor Park?
What advice are you giving the owners of the apartments you rent out?
Are you reimbursing clients with existing bookings before you get fined and can't afford to?
What part of LONG LET do you not understand?
LONG LET, people live in them full time.
LONG LET, people pay a monthly rent.
LONG LET, people walk in off the street, pay a months rent and a months deposit and don't even have to say when they will be leaving at the end of more than 6 months.
Why is this about my wife's agency suddenly? You have gone off topic, this is a thread about holidaymakers losing their holidays and deposits.
churnlobster
17-07-2011, 17:15
are you still accepting bookings for properties on residential sites such as Windsor Park?
What advice are you giving the owners of the apartments you rent out?
Are you reimbursing clients with existing bookings before you get fined and can't afford to?
There are loads of illegal holiday lettings on Windsor Park, you only have to Google it,.
I came up with 5 on the 1st page.
I'm surprised the inspectors didn't start there, they would have a field day.
There are loads of illegal holiday lettings on Windsor Park, you only have to Google it,.
I came up with 5 on the 1st page.
I'm surprised the inspectors didn't start there, they would have a field day.
LOL, the same as Loaded is not responsible for everything that happens on Paloma Beach, neither are we at our complex. Oh and welcome back Churnlobster, haven't crossed paths for what seems a lifetime.
To think,all the money I've pumped into the touristic complex I have owned on for 10 years in community fees for various things like new lifts,24 hour reception,life guard etc....just so as holidaymakers can benefit from it.Then I read about all the money people have made on residential holiday letting,a good majority of whom don't even pay the community fees.Makes me wanna :cry:
churnlobster
17-07-2011, 17:42
LOL, the same as Loaded is not responsible for everything that happens on Paloma Beach, neither are we at our complex. Oh and welcome back Churnlobster, haven't crossed paths for what seems a lifetime.
Where did it say you were responsible in my post?????
Where did it say you were responsible in my post?????
LOL, that's the Churnlobster I remember. Nice to know things don't change. As I said, nice to see you again.
This will be a major headache and is the $64k question.
The €18k fine for illegally letting an apartment is for a SERIOUS infringement. It is still illegal even if the Ad has been taken down so no logic there I fear.
Lets assume that,so far, only 20 letters with fines have gone out. (We do not know if 1 has gone to the owner of the apartment you have booked, but Doreen suggests that some have been sent to Owners on the complex you have chosen).
On average 6 months bookings already taken.
26 weeks * 20 apartments = 520 families (weeks) paid for holidays that they will not get because, I think it would be highly unlikely that the authorities would say pay the fine but you can still honour your bookings. 'OK Guv, fully booked for the next 5 years' ......No way.
I agree with Doreen that there are owners that are blissfully unaware of this impending doom. Is the owner of your apartment still advertising it on the Internet?
Word will soon spread once these fines have hit, and €18K is a lot of money to find in one go. The fine is increased for a repeat offence. Would you, as an owner, risk it?
Where would one go to claim a refund in case of a cancellation due to the inspectors operations?
I doubt that you will be able to insure your holiday against cancellation due to the implementation of a Law, and private letting will not be covered by any travel association so, as I say, your call.
However, it is not all bad. Some people still think that nothing will happen.
Am I correct in thinking that 18,000€ is "the fine" being imposed on owners illegally letting their properties? I had been told that fines varied ....and could be anything up to 300,000€!!
Am I correct in thinking that 18,000€ is "the fine" being imposed on owners illegally letting their properties? I had been told that fines varied ....and could be anything up to 300,000€!!
So far we know the fines in Dinistia are 18.000, which is deemed serious (grave) - I was expecting them to be nearer 6.000 - cannot for the life of me think we will ever see 300.000 !
So far we know the fines in Dinistia are 18.000, which is deemed serious (grave) - I was expecting them to be nearer 6.000 - cannot for the life of me think we will ever see 300.000 !
I hope you're right! Though 18,000€ is frightening enough! What do you think they mean by "grave"? Would that be those who have not been paying tax on their income for eg?
jogger321
17-07-2011, 19:54
So far we know the fines in Dinistia are 18.000, which is deemed serious (grave) - I was expecting them to be nearer 6.000 - cannot for the life of me think we will ever see 300.000 !
Looking at many of these apartments on this and similar complexes charging £300-£450 per week and until they removed the adverts, the majority virtually seemed fully booked throughout the year, 6000 euros would be represent around four months rental income,which i'm guessing the authorities have deduced would not be much of a deterrent hence the 18k
I hope you're right! Though 18,000€ is frightening enough! What do you think they mean by "grave"? Would that be those who have not been paying tax on their income for eg?
Gra-ve ... Spanish for Serious. I doubt paying tax or not enters into it.
All of the fine severities are laid out in the 7/1995 law, I think it's article 77 of 79 from memory
Trouble is if you are in an apartment that you like, with all the extras you want, do not think you will find this in the legal complexes as some off them that have been mentioned have left a lot to be desired as far as I'm concerned.
You all seem to be missing an important point regarding legallities. What about the 24 hour assistance (available on touristic complexes) for any guest on a complex that needs assistance from the single appointed agent? Where do you go if you have a problem? With all these private lettings on residential complexes guests have to make do with finding, normally someone unavailable or not local to their accomodation, help by themselves. On many occasions guests are locked out, without electricity, have blocked drains, unchanged linen, faulty electrical goods (even new kettles give up), etc etc etc. At least on legal complexes help is at hand.
As for your comment regarding accomodation on legal complexes having "a lot to be desired as far as I'm concerned" you must remember that at least these apartments have been inspected by a tourism inspector and passed to the standard allocated to the complex. Feel free to come and view the apartments on the complex where I work in this industry and I think your opinion of touristic complexes will be changed.
Ther are points mentioned in this forum in favour and against both types of accommodation but at the end of the day the tourist is the person to be looked after and, at this time, the only legal way is for the tourists to be accommodated in registered touristic accommodation.
Letting on residential complexes does not have the overheads incurred by the agents trying to be fully compliant with Spanish law and therefore creates financial unfair competition, should all complexes have the same requirements, e.g. reception facillities, maybe the registered complexes, hotels, would not be losing their regular clients to cheap, illegal, letting.
[QUOTE=Oasis;62961]You all seem to be missing an important point regarding legallities. What about the 24 hour assistance (available on touristic complexes) for any guest on a complex that needs assistance from the single appointed agent? Where do you go if you have a problem? With all these private lettings on residential complexes guests have to make do with finding, normally someone unavailable or not local to their accomodation, help by themselves. On many occasions guests are locked out, without electricity, have blocked drains, unchanged linen, faulty electrical goods (even new kettles give up), etc etc etc. At least on legal complexes help is at hand.
Not at all,the clients we look after are given 24 hour service,whatever the problem we are on 24 hour call out, please do not tar all illegal properties with the same brush,ive seen some pretty dire properties on touristic blocks
junglejim
19-07-2011, 00:05
When we had Kurt Konrad and Hovima as "sole " agent in our complex his apartments were the most basic possible - you had to hire a kettle, toaster , security box for a "self catering" apartment ! - the furnishing were basic and up to 20yrs old at the end compared to other owners on site who had renovated, refurnished and upgraded the equipment .
Some of Hovima´s guests were amazed at the difference in apartments and soon started to become "friends "of the individual apartment owners and since Hovima´s departure have continued to rent repeatedly with their friends !
We have always had night security and a reception service and fire regulations are regularly checked and upgraded and have recently renovated our pool to meet with new regulations - someting Hovima refused to do .
willowlily
19-07-2011, 07:46
You all seem to be missing an important point regarding legallities. What about the 24 hour assistance (available on touristic complexes) for any guest on a complex that needs assistance from the single appointed agent? Where do you go if you have a problem? With all these private lettings on residential complexes guests have to make do with finding, normally someone unavailable or not local to their accomodation, help by themselves. On many occasions guests are locked out, without electricity, have blocked drains, unchanged linen, faulty electrical goods (even new kettles give up), etc etc etc. At least on legal complexes help is at hand.
As for your comment regarding accomodation on legal complexes having "a lot to be desired as far as I'm concerned" you must remember that at least these apartments have been inspected by a tourism inspector and passed to the standard allocated to the complex. Feel free to come and view the apartments on the complex where I work in this industry and I think your opinion of touristic complexes will be changed.
Ther are points mentioned in this forum in favour and against both types of accommodation but at the end of the day the tourist is the person to be looked after and, at this time, the only legal way is for the tourists to be accommodated in registered touristic accommodation.
Letting on residential complexes does not have the overheads incurred by the agents trying to be fully compliant with Spanish law and therefore creates financial unfair competition, should all complexes have the same requirements, e.g. reception facillities, maybe the registered complexes, hotels, would not be losing their regular clients to cheap, illegal, letting.
not to mention the fact that these residential appt are not insured for holiday lets GOD FORBID should something happened, you and the owner are not covered should an accident occur.
carolethatch
19-07-2011, 14:43
The last "legal" apartment I stayed in had ants in all the cupboards, no head boards on the beds, hardly any cooking utensils, would not have fried an egg in the frying pan, the cleaner must have thought the room was round, no british t.v. Tenerife is famous for its swallows, and who wants to stay 2 months or more without your home comforts. That is when the shortage of apartments will hit, when your long term holiday maker can't book their normal apartment that they have been coming to year after year.
The last "legal" apartment I stayed in had ants in all the cupboards, no head boards on the beds, hardly any cooking utensils, would not have fried an egg in the frying pan, the cleaner must have thought the room was round, no british t.v. Tenerife is famous for its swallows, and who wants to stay 2 months or more without your home comforts. That is when the shortage of apartments will hit, when your long term holiday maker can't book their normal apartment that they have been coming to year after year.
So why did you not make a complaint? All registered apartments have a on site office with a responsibility to guests, if you were not happy then you should have done something at the time and not waited for this topic! Or maybe all was ok and you are just supporting illegal letting?
carolethatch
19-07-2011, 15:17
Now, Now, you don't have to revert to calling me a liar to prove a point. You won't change my opinion with that silly posting.
delderek
19-07-2011, 15:38
Here we go again people generalising. Their are some very nice touristic apartments, especially in Oasis del sur, and their are some pretty awful residential apartments especially in the old part of Los Cristianos. So generalising means nothing. But as Oasis states you can do something about it on a legal complex.
Here we go again people generalising. Their are some very nice touristic apartments, especially in Oasis del sur, and their are some pretty awful residential apartments especially in the old part of Los Cristianos. So generalising means nothing. But as Oasis states you can do something about it on a legal complex.
and also if you have owners who care about thier clients,residential or touristic
and also if you have owners who care about thier clients,residential or touristic
This topic is about illegal letting.
Residential - illegal.
Touristic - legal.
The authorities are concentrating on the illegal issues at the moment and more fines will be issued.
The authorities have previously, and continue to do so, act on issues regarding touristic complexes and impose fines on the letting agents. Ask any sole letting agent on a touristic complex and the will admit to receiving a fine of some sort.
No big topics when a letting agent is fined but mayhem breaks loose when owners of illegally let apartments start to get prosecuted.
We are not discussing the quality of the apartments we are discussing the legalities. Should registered apartments fail to meet the requirements set by the authorities you can be assured the letting agents get penalised.
In a nutshell,there are not enough quality legal Apartments available for the discerning holidaymaker, We have all learned from past experiences where we like to stay, To me location is paramount,i don't want to be struggling up hills whether it be in Los Cris or San Eugenio alto etc, Most holiday makers come for either a week or a fortnight and want Pool view/Sea view to be a couple of minutes from the beach/bars/restaurantes and the apartment to have a quality finish similar to what we have at home with nice lounge/kitchen etc.I for one am not worried whether its Touristic or Residential,legal or illegal, I will continue to stay where i want when i want because i am not breaking any laws. If over the last 30 years all the 100s of 1000s of holiday makers hadn't stayed in some of these apartments year after year Tenerife would be a poorer place in my opinion. As i've said before be careful what you wish for! I would like to ask forum member Oasis what complex he is associated with and does it fit the criteria i have mentioned above? Or is it in the back of beyond?
I would like to ask forum member Oasis what complex he is associated with and does it fit the criteria i have mentioned above? Or is it in the back of beyond?[/I]
Royal Palm, Oasis del Sur, Los Cristianos.
Very nice apartments.
And we are on a hill :spin:
But other apartments (not registered) are much higher.
Royal Palm, Oasis del Sur, Los Cristianos.
Very nice apartments.
And we are on a hill :spin:
But other apartments (not registered) are much higher.
I know the area well and stayed at Royal Palm for a fortnight over the Christmas new year period of 1998 and ate in Rosie's Cantina a few times. The apartment belonged to a friend of mine (scouser)but to be honest it wasn't up to scratch and im not too keen on that location. I know there are a few fabulous apartments on Royal Palm because i was impressed with the one showing the 360 degree pics on the "Estate Agents thread" I think it belonged to forum member Delderek,he done a great job on it. Unfortunately the Oasis del Sur area is not my cup of tea and would probably put an extra 400 Euro's on my holiday spends in taxi's over the fortnight, No wonder it has a nearby Taxi rank.;)
ps: That hill is still fresh in my mind...:surrender:
I have been asked a question on another forum as to whether I know anyone who has apartments at Los Diamantes - before I reply is this tourist or residential. Thanks.
howard thornton
19-07-2011, 17:47
I have been asked a question on another forum as to whether I know anyone who has apartments at Los Diamantes - before I reply is this tourist or residential. Thanks.
are you spying mum?
are you spying mum?
No 'son' :fryingpan: I have had a PM on Tripadvisor asking if I know anyone who rents at Los Diamantes as there used to be lots on Holiday Lettings but now they can´t find any.
howard thornton
19-07-2011, 18:12
No 'son' :fryingpan: I have had a PM on Tripadvisor asking if I know anyone who rents at Los Diamantes as there used to be lots on Holiday Lettings but now they can´t find any.
my friends stayed there for three weeks in january,enjoyed it and booked again for a month this winter.that frying pan hurts mum.:surrender:
I have been asked a question on another forum as to whether I know anyone who has apartments at Los Diamantes - before I reply is this tourist or residential. Thanks.
Tricky one Zara as Los Diamantes has 3 phases, My friends have stayed in a Timeshare but i can't remember which one of the 3 it was,I think it had something to do with Club Tenerife TS. On another link it says it is residential but on another link it is offering holidays by the bucketload. I think you would need to speak to a Philidelphia lawyer just to be sure!
Maybe 1 is residential, 1 Timeshare and 1 Touristic!
Thanks guys, I think I will just say that I don´t know why they are not showing on Holiday Lettings but I don´t know anyone, at this point I would normally go on to recommend Doreen, Sunspot or Loaded but as they were specific about the complex :(.
howard thornton
19-07-2011, 18:39
Tricky one Zara as Los Diamantes has 3 phases, My friends have stayed in a Timeshare but i can't remember which one of the 3 it was,I think it had something to do with Club Tenerife TS. On another link it says it is residential but on another link it is offering holidays by the bucketload. I think you would need to speak to a Philidelphia lawyer just to be sure!
Maybe 1 is residential, 1 Timeshare and 1 Touristic! or a barrack room lawer.
Didn't/doesn't PeterR own on Los Diamantes - should make him the necessary expert :)
Didn't/doesn't PeterR own on Los Diamantes - should make him the necessary expert :)
Don´t know PeterR, is he a regular on the forum?
Don´t know PeterR, is he a regular on the forum?
Peter's is on Dinastia!
I know the area well and stayed at Royal Palm for a fortnight over the Christmas new year period of 1998 and ate in Rosie's Cantina a few times. The apartment belonged to a friend of mine (scouser)but to be honest it wasn't up to scratch
ps: That hill is still fresh in my mind...:surrender:
As the apartment belonged to a friend of yours it is more than likely you did not book through the official agent (at that time it was not me) and this may explain why it wasn't up to scratch. Was the apartment officially registered? Possibly not and this, even on a touristic complex, is still illegal under Spanish law. This is another area that is being investigated by the authorities at the moment. Owners who rent out on touristic complexes, not regitered with the sole letting agent, are also liable to receive fines.
moonlighter
19-07-2011, 19:28
Peter's is on Dinastia!
And also on Los Diamantes (3) as Doreen says.
As the apartment belonged to a friend of yours it is more than likely you did not book through the official agent (at that time it was not me) and this may explain why it wasn't up to scratch. Was the apartment officially registered? Possibly not and this, even on a touristic complex, is still illegal under Spanish law. This is another area that is being investigated by the authorities at the moment. Owners who rent out on touristic complexes, not regitered with the sole letting agent, are also liable to receive fines.
This was 13 years ago, and was booked direct from the owner at the last minute, Its only in the last 12 months that i and many many more realised that there was a difference. I was over 7 weeks ago and was amazed that friends of mine who have lived in PDLA for 25 years didn't have a clue about the 17 inspectors had started there investigations in January.Neither did the holidaymakers who had stayed there since 1984. I would still be blissfully unaware myself if i hadn't been a forum member.
Red Devil
19-07-2011, 19:57
Originally Posted by Oasis
As the apartment belonged to a friend of yours it is more than likely you did not book through the official agent (at that time it was not me) and this may explain why it wasn't up to scratch. Was the apartment officially registered? Possibly not and this, even on a touristic complex, is still illegal under Spanish law. This is another area that is being investigated by the authorities at the moment. Owners who rent out on touristic complexes, not regitered with the sole letting agent, are also liable to receive fines.
I dont follow your reasoning - just because you are the agent it doesnt mean the apartment is in any way superior - you can't make the (usually absent) owner modernise - if they want to leave it basic they will do, as I have discovered many times myself unfortunately.
First off : thanks to Zara for the recommendations.
Surely a worthwhile point regarding this sub-topic of standards : residential vs touristic - bear in mind there are thousands of each type, there might be "illegal" apartments that are much better than "legal" ones or vice versa. The standard on paloma beach varies also. I have some on my books that are amazing and some not so amazing - I can only try and persuade the owners to make them as nice as possible but some of them are tighter than a ducks posterior.
For example I recently told an owner if they let me get their apartment painted (200€) I could give her bookings, she refused! Needless to say she didn't get anything from me and lost several thousands worth of bookings.
Added after 3 minutes:
On the flip I have some Russians who stayed in an apartment I've just redecorated and their friends were in one of doreens, they were all very impressed and although I can't speak Russian I understand "WOW"!
I dont follow your reasoning - just because you are the agent it doesnt mean the apartment is in any way superior - you can't make the (usually absent) owner modernise - if they want to leave it basic they will do, as I have discovered many times myself unfortunately.
Quite simple, if they leave it basic they do not get bookings, we have paid in advance for improvements for some apartments and then deducted the costs from future bookings - we rely on recommendations and returnig guests. Most owners have accepted they have to spend money on improvements and they are doing so. We are getting a very good reputation and looking after our guests. When we get the very occasional complaint we more than satisfy the guests with upgrades and a free meal at local, quality, restaurants (Bianco Duo's for example). This gets us more and more holiday makers in quality, legal, accommodation.
Red Devil
19-07-2011, 20:52
Can we re-name this as the "All agents bickering amongst themselves to push their own particular complex first" thread now?:crazy:
howard thornton
19-07-2011, 20:57
Can we re-name this as the "All agents bickering amongst themselves to push their own particular complex first" thread now?:crazy: sounds good,rolls off the tongue.
Red Devil
19-07-2011, 21:00
True, it could do with something a bit snappier.:doh:
True, it could do with something a bit snappier.:doh:
A crocodile ?
Omg nice to know it's not just me! Today I finished decorating and furnishing a 1 bed of a private owner - had to buy pictures, ornaments, change the actual beds, headboards, loan him an entire bedroom furniture set I'd just taken out one of our own apartments and buy new bedspreads, curtains and replace about 10 tiles.....
He doesn't know about it yet but I'd never have been able to rent it as it was
Lol just read the comments about agents..... Sorry
Can we re-name this as the "All agents bickering amongst themselves to push their own particular complex first" thread now?:crazy:
Only mentioned the name of complex earlier after requested, have I promoted it? No.
Get a life.
Red Devil
19-07-2011, 21:23
Only mentioned the name of complex earlier after requested, have I promoted it? No.
Get a life.
I think you need to acquire manners.
delderek
19-07-2011, 21:24
Only mentioned the name of complex earlier after requested, have I promoted it? No.
Get a life.
As a matter of interest, here is the new Arona listing of Apartments, Royal Palm is not on it.
http://www.arona.travel/portal/turismo/lloc_d10_v6.jsp?codMenu=1105&codMenuPN=1088&codMenuSN=1098&codResi=1&language=es
This is another area that is being investigated by the authorities at the moment. Owners who rent out on touristic complexes, not regitered with the sole letting agent, are also liable to receive fines.
Interesting point and one which I raised a few weeks back.Out of interest,where did your information come from?
As a matter of interest, here is the new Arona listing of Apartments, Royal Palm is not on it.
http://www.arona.travel/portal/turismo/lloc_d10_v6.jsp?codMenu=1105&codMenuPN=1088&codMenuSN=1098&codResi=1&language=es
Not an official site. You may have to pay to be listed.
Try this one http://www.todotenerife.es/t_detail.php?ID=15207&ClaseAlojamiento=E&lang=1&s=5§ionID=84
delderek - you have seen the licence on display in the office so why question our legallity?
Interesting point and one which I raised a few weeks back.Out of interest,where did your information come from?
We have regular communication with the tourist office in Santa Cruz de Tenerife and there is ongoing investigations with owners of apartments on touristic complexes who fail to register their apartments correctly. Actually I will be there on Thursday morning meeting the replacement for Paloma Infante, recently retired, who was head of the department for tourism in apartments (apart hotels).
Should be interesting!
willowlily
19-07-2011, 23:35
Only mentioned the name of complex earlier after requested, have I promoted it? No.
Get a life.
its good to see people stand up and be proud of the complex they represent
its good to see people stand up and be proud of the complex they represent
Originally Posted by Oasis
This is another area that is being investigated by the authorities at the moment. Owners who rent out on touristic complexes, not regitered with the sole letting agent, are also liable to receive fines.
Round, like a circle in a spiral
like a wheel within a wheel
etc.
Here we are, back at post #144 page 15
Even my deja vu is having deja vu now.
[QUOTE=tmfkahs;63795][I]
Here we are, back at post #144 page 15
Had not seen the previous quote so thanks for pointing it out.
Similar but i think it was an adjoining property the the complex registered.
delderek
20-07-2011, 08:48
Not an official site. You may have to pay to be listed.
Try this one http://www.todotenerife.es/t_detail.php?ID=15207&ClaseAlojamiento=E&lang=1&s=5§ionID=84
delderek - you have seen the licence on display in the office so why question our legallity?
Wasn't questioning it, just seemed strange that RP wasn't listed, as it looks an official site, but if you say it has to be paid for, then I understand.
Can anyone answer the following question please ??
What is the legal status of a complex like Sand Andreas on Golf Del Sur where it was actually built and marketed as Timeshare/Residential - is it classed as residential or touristic ?
The timeshare and residential properties are not in separate areas but are all mixed together as people were allowed to buy of plan.
Timeshare is not exempt from the laws, same thing applies they need 50%+1 unless they're a recent build in which case they'd need 100% (ignoring the moratorium).
Timeshare is not exempt from the laws, same thing applies they need 50%+1 unless they're a recent build in which case they'd need 100% (ignoring the moratorium).
Can anyone answer the following question please ??
What is the legal status of a complex like Sand Andreas on Golf Del Sur where it was actually built and marketed as Timeshare/Residential - is it classed as residential or touristic ?
The timeshare and residential properties are not in separate areas but are all mixed together as people were allowed to buy of plan.
Thanks for that loaded, so is San Andreas actually Residential or is it Touristic ?? Split is probably about 50/50 between Timeshare and Residential.
Thanks for that loaded, so is San Andreas actually Residential or is it Touristic ?? Split is probably about 50/50 between Timeshare and Residential.
I'm not familiar with the complex but an easy way to find out is to ask or look for their plaque which should say AT or HA then the amount of stars. Failing that look on the todotenerife website an see if it's listed there
Peterrayner
20-07-2011, 13:56
Los diamantes is split into 3 separate pahses
Los Diamantes 3 is residential
Los Diamantes 2 is part timeshare (Club Tenerife) with a 24 hour reception.
Los Diamantes 1 I am not sure think it is residential as well
The following is the listing on www.todotenerife.es
Not sure if it relates to Los Diamantes 3.
Nombre: DIAMANTES III FASE, LOS Categoría: 1 TAZA
Dirección: Tlf: (00 34)
URB. OASIS DEL SUR (ED. DIAMANTES III) Fax: (00 34)
CRISTIANOS (LOS) 38650
ARONA Plaza(s): 42
Web:
E-mail:
I'm posting verbatim an item on the other forum written by Janet Ans-combe, who I thank for permission to put it on here. We both agree it is too important to be worried about copyright or past issues between us. Thank you, Janet :)
The following article is a review of the current situation. I have written it after consultation with José Escobedo, a highly respected local abogado with considerable expertise in this field, who has also confirmed and approved the text for publishing here and on my own website.
Fines have now started being issued to owners of residential apartments in some numbers, and on more than just one complex, so I thought this would be a good opportunity to move the discussion on from whether they will happen, to the issue of what happens now.
There is a three-stage system involved, the first stage of which is the issuing of the notification. The second stage requires a response to be lodged with the Government within 15 days of receipt of the notification. This will essentially be a statement of justification or defence. The third stage comes into play if the Government refuses to accept the response, and comprises an appeal to the Courts. Whatever fine remains imposed after that appeal is charged against the property concerned if unpaid.
The most plausible defence might be that the Government cannot prove it was the owners themselves who placed the advertisements; or alternatively that the owners placed them, but had been unsuccessful in getting the hosting website to remove them. Ignorance of the law is no defence, nor is mis-selling by agents. There is also the possibility that any advertisements the inspectors have gathered from the internet are corroborated by evidence gained by knocking on doors: this is no longer a rumour, but a fact. Indeed, it is a required part of the inspectors’ job.
This might also explain suspicious telephone calls to apartments very insistently asking who and where is the owner: “knocking on doors” does not necessarily require a real person outside a physical door. Naturally, there will be no defence whatsoever available if the inspectors have both an internet advert and evidence that whoever answered the door or phone were not the owner nor knew owner details off the top of their head
Given the above, I would recommend anyone implicated in this to contact José Escobedo. He is an abogado in the San Eugenio Commercial Centre who speaks English superbly, and who is already dealing with a pile of notifications (literally a pile) from more than one complex. The more he has, the bigger the lobby he himself will be at the head of to try to get access to the higher levels of government to make them understand the implications of what they are doing. These implications are threefold: one is the sheer scale of problem the Government’s action is causing; another is that it could have a serious and negative effect on property values here; and a third is that it would give the message to the wider world that the Canaries are not a safe place for financial investment.
None of these implications is to the Government’s advantage. For the moment, however, the problem is the Government is in dire need of money, and this action is being headed by bureaucrats. This is why the fines are unlikely to be lifted, though it possible they might be reduced. In the longer term, though, such a lobby will hopefully make it possible to get the government to see the bigger picture. This doesn’t help individual owners right now, but it might help the Canaries, and the investment those owners have already made here.
Once the dust settles, owners and communities need to decide how to face their future, and it is in fact possible, within certain constraints, that residential communities could engage in touristic letting. These constraints would make it difficult to achieve, but not necessarily impossible. Providing that a community’s statutes do not expressly prohibit it, and a vote was legally passed by the community and achieved the required percentage, then the community could set up a commercial entity – either an SL company or an Asociación – which would apply for a touristic licence. Any bookings would be through this entity and managed by it as in the case of a touristic complex. Providing that the community complied with every requirement for touristic complexes, the government could not in law refuse to grant a touristic licence. The government could not even drag its feet, because under the Administrative Silence Act, it has six months to respond, or the licence is awarded by default. All this would not necessarily be easy for a community to achieve, but it is theoretically possible.
Finally, I have said above in this thread that mis-selling by agents is no defence, and it is not. There is, however, something that theoretically, and in some cases practically, can be done about mis-selling, namely taking legal action for negligence against whoever was responsible for misleading the buyer. Naturally, the agency (or individual agent depending on where the information or guarantee originated), would need to be still in business otherwise there would be no point in suing, but the avenue exists for anyone who feels aggrieved and can prove mis-selling with evidence in writing.
Hmmmmmmm intwesting stuff thanks d
Thankfully no one took her advice 6 months ago, otherwise everyone in the Canaries would be in the ***** by now.
Apart from Administrators and Liquidators.
Thankfully no one took her advice 6 months ago, otherwise everyone in the Canaries would be in the ***** by now.
Apart from Administrators and Liquidators.
A little bit disrespectful I think,Here s the ironic thing,This thread has been going around in circles for months,being kept alive by threads of total self promotion,under the false pretence of information.Only, thanks to Doreen,via someone who posts elsewhere,has this thread now become relevant.Oh and by the way,the "well respected" person who has posted what is really going on,has done so without malice,agenda,and only acting to give real information on what to do now.
A little bit disrespectful I think. Only, thanks to Doreen,via someone who posts elsewhere,has this thread now become relevant.Oh and by the way,the "well respected" person who has posted what is really going on,has done so without malice,agenda,and only acting to give real information on what to do now.
Thankfully no one took her advice 6 months ago, otherwise everyone in the Canaries would be in the ***** by now.
Apart from Administrators and Liquidators.
Totally agree with AJP
If people had acted on Hughsyb's summation of the problem, they would be in an even bigger mess as his basic idea seems to be that nothing will actually happen and the fines will just be written off if nobody pays them.
Not sure if that was aimed at me or not but I'm guessing perhaps it was - there's not really any point self promoting a complex in a thread like this, you become the guy in the glass house - any mention of PB has always been in response to claims that legal accommodation is basic and sub par, or to illustrate a point using real life examples (el mirador gets used a lot as the " illegal" example).
If I wanted to self promote I'd be all over every thread asking for accommodation, if you look through I stay clear of them.
As I say not sure if you meant me,if you didn't fair enough if you did at least tell me.
A little bit disrespectful I think,Here s the ironic thing,This thread has been going around in circles for months,being kept alive by threads of total self promotion,under the false pretence of information.Only, thanks to Doreen,via someone who posts elsewhere,has this thread now become relevant.Oh and by the way,the "well respected" person who has posted what is really going on,has done so without malice,agenda,and only acting to give real information on what to do now.
Thankfully no one took her advice 6 months ago, otherwise everyone in the Canaries would be in the ***** by now.
Apart from Administrators and Liquidators.
Not sure if that was aimed at me or not but I'm guessing perhaps it was - there's not really any point self promoting a complex in a thread like this, you become the guy in the glass house - any mention of PB has always been in response to claims that legal accommodation is basic and sub par, or to illustrate a point using real life examples (el mirador gets used a lot as the " illegal" example).
If I wanted to self promote I'd be all over every thread asking for accommodation, if you look through I stay clear of them.
As I say not sure if you meant me,if you didn't fair enough if you did at least tell me.
Hi Loaded
I certainly wasn't having a go at you, I regard you and D as two of the better informed posters on this subject as you are closest to the coalface when it comes to what is happening.
Hi bobmac thanks very much, I think our posts crossed - I was referring to AJPs comments
A little bit disrespectful I think,Here s the ironic thing,This thread has been going around in circles for months,being kept alive by threads of total self promotion,under the false pretence of information.Only, thanks to Doreen,via someone who posts elsewhere,has this thread now become relevant.Oh and by the way,the "well respected" person who has posted what is really going on,has done so without malice,agenda,and only acting to give real information on what to do now.
What's disrespectful to disagree with someone's advice, no matter how well respected anyone is?
Can anyone deny that that would be the result if all residential property owners in the Canaries stopped holiday renting today?
Totally agree with AJP
If people had acted on Hughsyb's summation of the problem, they would be in an even bigger mess as his basic idea seems to be that nothing will actually happen and the fines will just be written off if nobody pays them.
Point me to the post where I said that please.
Not sure if that was aimed at me or not but I'm guessing perhaps it was - there's not really any point self promoting a complex in a thread like this, you become the guy in the glass house - any mention of PB has always been in response to claims that legal accommodation is basic and sub par, or to illustrate a point using real life examples (el mirador gets used a lot as the " illegal" example).
If I wanted to self promote I'd be all over every thread asking for accommodation, if you look through I stay clear of them.
As I say not sure if you meant me,if you didn't fair enough if you did at least tell me.
My point on this thread was,that from the outside looking in,a lot of your posts came across as arrogant and self indulgent,that may not have been the way you wanted them to, but to me, thats the way it came across.The Ironic thing is you where right,inspectors are there and things are happening.And funny enough,after reading back through the posts I can see both sides of the argument.By the way,my point on self promotion was meant for both sides.
Me too! Both of these members give excellent advice at all times and if they don't know what is going on then they find out.
I don´t know Loaded personally but I am sure that if you were talking face to face you would find a different person. His posts can sometimes sound a bit pedantic (certainly not arrogant) but in passing on information about what is happening in writing as opposed to verbally, it has to be as clear as possible. Every if, it and but should be as accurate as it possibly can so nobody can come back and say they didn't understand. Of course many will say just that but I really think he has done an excellent job and should be congratulated for the amount of time he has put in to both this thread and the old one.
hughsby, I started this thread (on dot com) the day after the announcement of the 17 new inspectors as a warning to anyone wanting to buy an apartment thinking they could just do holiday lets (Sadly, I was contacted yesterday by someone who said that was the only reason they bought on El Mirador) ... the thread has indeed grown since the and gone round in circles at times but I think the main posters have only wanted that correct information be given.
Yes, I do now have a vested interest (legal apartments in Paloma Beach for the last two years) but I have argued on here since the forum started 6 years ago that the "family & friends" so called exception was skating on thin ice and to beware ... others who argued vehemently against me then have now changed their ways, including some "well respected" posters here or elsewhere :)
Thanks for the supportive comments, I certainly never meant to come across as arrogant I was just trying to factual, I also tend not to litter my posts with smilies as I post off my phone - so all you see are words laid out in all their nudity - interpreted in the way each person does.
I'm doing it again aren't I??? Lol
Added after 4 minutes:
I guess also I don't tend to post "conjecture" or "gossip" but mainly I quote the law, this can make me come across as the annoying guy with the rule book buy I think it's necessary to bring some people back on track when their mind has developed the laws into something they aren't.
golf birdie
23-07-2011, 21:42
well for me without a huge lay out to bring most tourist hotels/apartment up to standard. I stayed at the Diamantes suites in Puerto and the room they gave us was a disgrace. Flithy dirty, damp, dark and so far down I thought we may find Terry Waite chained to a radiator. Asked to move and was told it was not possible as it was full. so how does this 4 star ( I think they pained 3 on) get away with it. Plus whats the point in complaining if nothing can be done. As far as they were concerned, they had my cash and thats the end of it.
Sundowner
23-07-2011, 21:52
well for me without a huge lay out to bring most tourist hotels/apartment up to standard. I stayed at the Diamantes suites in Puerto and the room they gave us was a disgrace. Flithy dirty, damp, dark and so far down I thought we may find Terry Waite chained to a radiator. Asked to move and was told it was not possible as it was full. so how does this 4 star ( I think they pained 3 on) get away with it. Plus whats the point in complaining if nothing can be done. As far as they were concerned, they had my cash and thats the end of it.
In this day and age with so many reviews on the web and also the Tenerife forum to ask about good complexes to stay on, I would say that old maxim "caveat emptor" applies if you do not do your research!
Would anyone know when the appeals to the original fines are due to be heard?
Angusjim
28-07-2011, 13:34
Heres a good advert for "illegal letting" in a residential complex ( OK its from Fuerteventura but suppose it could be Tenerife ) :redcard::ban:;)
We were there for 3 weeks. Had rented two villas because there were 7 of us. Nothing worked. We ran out of water in one of the villas FOUR times while we were there. There was no contact number anywhere to call for help - the numbers that were there, apparently didn't apply for us. The cleaning service was terrible, they just swished water around on the floor from time to time - we never knew when they were coming. Towels were always an issue, the dishwasher didn't work in one of the villas, nor the washing machine, the water heater overflowed, and was left like that for a day (overflowing) because no way to contact anyone. No wifi, loud hotel close by, and the WORST... in villa number 7 and 8 live some dogs. (these villas are privately owned). Those dogs don't get any exercise, and they bark incessantly - even at night and especially at about 6am. Try getting any sleep. Cockroaches the size of a small mouse (we had about 10 in one of the villas). The villas are not well equipped for cooking, so don't try it - the stove (burners/hob) requires a rocket scientist with a lot of patience to figure out. The barbecue - well, they're there, but I don't think anyone ever uses them, because there aren't any tools for that. I could go on and on - DON'T stay here.
Red Devil
28-07-2011, 16:35
And Golf birdies post just above yours referred to a hotel that was presumably tourist board registered. A legal let.
Would anyone know when the appeals to the original fines are due to be heard?
The appeals were lodged late last week in Santa Cruz ... whilst I have no proof, I fear they may sit on a functionary's desk for the month of August :(
Peterrayner
28-07-2011, 18:58
I think you are right D
dont the courts actually close for the whole of August ??
Heres a good advert for "illegal letting" in a residential complex ( OK its from Fuerteventura but suppose it could be Tenerife ) :redcard::ban:;)
We were there for 3 weeks. Had rented two villas because there were 7 of us. Nothing worked. We ran out of water in one of the villas FOUR times while we were there. There was no contact number anywhere to call for help - the numbers that were there, apparently didn't apply for us. The cleaning service was terrible, they just swished water around on the floor from time to time - we never knew when they were coming. Towels were always an issue, the dishwasher didn't work in one of the villas, nor the washing machine, the water heater overflowed, and was left like that for a day (overflowing) because no way to contact anyone. No wifi, loud hotel close by, and the WORST... in villa number 7 and 8 live some dogs. (these villas are privately owned). Those dogs don't get any exercise, and they bark incessantly - even at night and especially at about 6am. Try getting any sleep. Cockroaches the size of a small mouse (we had about 10 in one of the villas). The villas are not well equipped for cooking, so don't try it - the stove (burners/hob) requires a rocket scientist with a lot of patience to figure out. The barbecue - well, they're there, but I don't think anyone ever uses them, because there aren't any tools for that. I could go on and on - DON'T stay here.
Sounds like a nightmare. Personally, I wouldn't stay in accomodation where there isn't any contact number to ring in case of something going wrong. Indeed, most of the places we have stayed in, would have had people doing a "meet and greet" and quite often, these people live in the complex or very close by. ( These were residential complexes)
I'm staying in 4star silken atlantico tonight for the James blunt concert - nice and comfy, better than 5 star botanico in puerto!
Angusjim
29-07-2011, 12:31
And Golf birdies post just above yours referred to a hotel that was presumably tourist board registered. A legal let.
That is correct but unfortunately the report I highlighted is the kind of report that the tourist police will use to push home the reasons that "illegal letting" has to be stamped out.
I just wanted to wish a wonderful sunny holiday to all the tens of thousands of holidaymakers coming to the Canaries over the next 4/5 weeks and staying in residential properties.
Have a great time and we look forward to SEEING YOU ALL AGAIN NEXT YEAR! :welcome:
I just wanted to wish a wonderful sunny holiday to all the tens of thousands of holidaymakers coming to the Canaries over the next 4/5 weeks and staying in residential properties.
Have a great time and we look forward to SEEING YOU ALL AGAIN NEXT YEAR.........
.......... in legal accommodation!!!
Peterrayner
29-07-2011, 14:34
.......... in legal accommodation!!!
They had all better book early then as Uncle Fred Pontin used to say....:wink:
Red Devil
29-07-2011, 14:44
That is correct but unfortunately the report I highlighted is the kind of report that the tourist police will use to push home the reasons that "illegal letting" has to be stamped out.
Yes I realise, what I was showing was that however the accommodation is dressed up, legal or not, you can still end up with c***
Hi We stayed in Yucca park this year and when the holiday was over I had an email off the owner telling me he couldn't advertise his apartment anymore as it is classed as Residential.
I have been looking again for an apartment and apartments in Yucca Park are still advertising on different web site.
If I rented one of these how safe would it be to rent one for next spring
Ann
Hi We stayed in Yucca park this year and when the holiday was over I had an email off the owner telling me he couldn't advertise his apartment anymore as it is classed as Residential.
I have been looking again for an apartment and apartments in Yucca Park are still advertising on different web site.
If I rented one of these how safe would it be to rent one for next spring
Ann
If you rented the apartment, you, the client,aren't actually doing anything illegal. Its the owners who are breaking the law. So, if you trust the website/owner, then you shouldn't be running any more of a risk than normal.
If you rented the apartment, you, the client, isn't actually doing anything illegal. Its the owners who are breaking the law. So, if you trust the website/owner, then you shouldn't be running any more of a risk than normal.
But do remember, if the owner is caught between now and your holiday next spring and receives an 18 grand fine as a result there is a possibility they may "dissapear" and I doubt you would have any recourse in law. If you can reserve without parting with your cash then that is a safer bet. Your alternative might be to make friends with, and/or become one of the family of the owners of the apartment you just stayed in!
But do remember, if the owner is caught between now and your holiday next spring and receives an 18 grand fine as a result there is a possibility they may "dissapear" and I doubt you would have any recourse in law. If you can reserve without parting with your cash then that is a safer bet. Your alternative might be to make friends with, and/or become one of the family of the owners of the apartment you just stayed in!
I have to say, I agree - pay as little as possible as a deposit and say you will bring the balance with you.
Can I please ask is Orlando classed as Residential?
Angusjim
31-07-2011, 07:07
Can I please ask is Orlando classed as Residential?
I asked this a while ago and was told it is residential
I have to say, I agree - pay as little as possible as a deposit and say you will bring the balance with you.
I dont think that would be an option as most are not living there and other bookings I have had to pay the balance approx 10 weeks before the holiday.
Ann
willowlily
31-07-2011, 09:24
I dont think that would be an option as most are not living there and other bookings I have had to pay the balance approx 10 weeks before the holiday.
Ann
i dont know many businesses where you have to pay the full amount 10 weeks before the point of service. these owners are onto a good thing no wonder many are prepared to break the law and risk fines.
In some ways this is the real nub of the issue. If you rent an apartment over the net on a tourist complex from the appointed agent then there is some recourse in law if you don't get what you pay for. Renting an apartment from a private owner on a residential complex is fraught with dangers. In the first instance there is the insurance situation to consider, but more than that, you are parting with your cash to a stranger who is doing something outside of the law (whether the law is an ass is a different discussion).
I cannot see how you have any legal recourse whatsoever in the event something happens such as the owner being fined, or even deciding to stop letting because of the implimentation of the law, you will be entirely at the mercy of the goodwill of the owner as to whether you get anything at all back in the event your booking is cancelled.
There is no other advice that can be given other than using common sense and as willow says above, would you really pay for anything as relatively expensive as a holiday, so far in advance when there is nothing in law that protects your purchase. I'm not even sure a credit card purchase would protect you, although I doubt many private owners are actually geared up to be paid this way.
Buyer Beware seems the best advice.
What is interesting though is the effect the implimentation of the law is having. There now (finally) seems to be a growing understanding amongst owners of residential apartments of the risks of holiday letting. The simple presence of the inspection teams is beginning to have a knock-on effect now, and on an island as small as this it won't be long before everyone knows someone who has been fined or someone who knows someone who has been fined!
junglejim
31-07-2011, 11:03
i dont know many businesses where you have to pay the full amount 10 weeks before the point of service. these owners are onto a good thing no wonder many are prepared to break the law and risk fines.
You´re right - Thomson´s want payment 12 weeks before holiday -
10. Paying for your travel arrangements
You will be required to pay a deposit to us for each person when you book unless this is within 12 weeks of departure when the full amount for the booking is payable. The deposit amount will be specified by us or your travel agent when your booking is made. If it is not specified then it will be the amount that we ask you to pay when you book, even if this is 100% of the holiday price. If you pay less than the deposit under a low deposit booking scheme, then this is only part of the deposit referred to in this paragraph. The remaining deposit will be due on cancellation or date specified at time of booking or on your confirmation invoice Please note your booking deposit may be increased or there may be a charge payable for some accommodation, holidays or flight bookings where it is necessary to secure specific facilities with full payment at the time of booking e.g. weddings, coach touring and specific types of airline tickets. Once confirmed, the booking deposit, additional charges paid and insurance premiums will not be refunded in the event of cancellation except in the circumstances specified in Sections 2, 3 or 4 or as otherwise required by law.
This is your only commitment until 12 weeks before you go. Within two weeks of booking, we will send you a Confirmation Invoice showing how much you owe us. You must pay the amount on the last Invoice issued by us, at least 12 weeks before you go on holiday. If you don’t, we reserve the right to treat your booking as cancelled and to charge you a cancellation charge up to 100% of the total on that last Invoice, in accordance with the scale in section 12.
If you pay money for your booking to a travel agent appointed by us, they will hold that money as our agent from the time they receive it until they pay the money to us. Telephone bookings may incur an additional charge, check at time of booking.
If your payment is made by credit card a handling fee will apply, please check fee at time of booking. This may also apply to some debit cards. We do not accept personal cheques, only building society and bankers' drafts will be accepted.
Source Thomson conditions of booking.
But the point is that you have recourse in law if they don't/can't provide what you paid for - private renting (here anyway) is a different issue I would suggest.
junglejim
31-07-2011, 11:19
But the point is that you have recourse in law if they don't/can't provide what you paid for - private renting (here anyway) is a different issue I would suggest.
I don´t disagree with your point on private renting and risk - recommended rentals are usually ok - just the point about advanced payment
IMHO if tourists follow the risk logic , the Tumbleweed will start rolling across many streets in South Tenerife - people still pay tourist companies and can end up in disasters or collapses and it takes ages to get money back !
The thread ,whilst and excellent source of information and debate doesn´t seem to be finding a solution for what happens after the Inspectors and Courts get their way - do they have an "Exit Strategy" ?
With an election being brought forward and economic crisis looming something will have to be done to avoid further hardship on the Islands !!
Angusjim
31-07-2011, 11:25
But the point is that you have recourse in law if they don't/can't provide what you paid for - private renting (here anyway) is a different issue I would suggest.
So if i book direct thru an on site sole letting agent like Loaded for instance and they go bust do I get my money back ? Are they members of any trade associations Eg Abta etc that run compensation schemes?
So if i book direct thru an on site sole letting agent like Loaded for instance and they go bust do I get my money back ? Are they members of any trade associations Eg Abta etc that run compensation schemes?
Having seen how busy Paloma Beach is, an unlikely scenario at the moment ;)
If you book with me, you pay on arrival, not even a deposit beforehand - might not be the smartest Business Plan, but I have lost out only twice :)
Peterrayner
31-07-2011, 11:34
So if i book direct thru an on site sole letting agent like Loaded for instance and they go bust do I get my money back ? Are they members of any trade associations Eg Abta etc that run compensation schemes?
good angle :wink: :wink:
Angusjim
31-07-2011, 11:38
Having seen how busy Paloma Beach is, an unlikely scenario at the moment ;)
If you book with me, you pay on arrival, not even a deposit beforehand - might not be the smartest Business Plan, but I have lost out only twice :)
Doreen like yourself I have been in busness a lot of years and have seen many many "busy" companies go bust sometimes to my loss. I take it the answer to the question is they are not members of any trade bodies so there is a risk that you could loose your money ?
Firstly apartment complexes can't be members of ABTA as ABTA stands for Association of British Travel Agents - we aren't a travel agent, and we aren't a british company, by the same logic the Arona Gran Hotel can't be a member either.
But anyway, there is always a risk of companies going bankrupt and I'm not stupid enough to believe that if massive companies can get brought down then so can a small business like ours. That's a risk you take when booking accommodation.
I'm not going to go into the details of how busy we are, or what would have to happen before we specifically went bust, however, hotels and apartment management companies going bust is much more unlikely scenario than one owner receiving a fine and deciding it's now too risky to continue. The difference is that these owners are currently doing things that are against the law and companies like ourselves are not - so which is the bigger risk factor?
Added after 5 minutes:
There are trade groups over here like ASHotel however we, personally are not members. I dont' know if they do a compensation sceme.
Angusjim
31-07-2011, 12:11
Firstly apartment complexes can't be members of ABTA as ABTA stands for Association of British Travel Agents - we aren't a travel agent, and we aren't a british company, by the same logic the Arona Gran Hotel can't be a member either.
But anyway, there is always a risk of companies going bankrupt and I'm not stupid enough to believe that if massive companies can get brought down then so can a small business like ours. That's a risk you take when booking accommodation.
I'm not going to go into the details of how busy we are, or what would have to happen before we specifically went bust, however, hotels and apartment management companies going bust is much more unlikely scenario than one owner receiving a fine and deciding it's now too risky to continue. The difference is that these owners are currently doing things that are against the law and companies like ourselves are not - so which is the bigger risk factor?
Added after 5 minutes:
There are trade groups over here like ASHotel however we, personally are not members. I dont' know if they do a compensation sceme.
For the avoidance of doubt I am not suggesting for a minute that you are anything but an honest person and that your business is any danger of going bust, I only used you as an example basically because you are the only on site agent that I have heard of. All I am answering was Muppets point that you have a recourse when booking thru " legal" companies to compensation that is now proved as not to be the case, whilst you may run a good honest company I am sure there will be others who may not. Maybe the tourist police should be looking at this and insist that a scheme be set up to protect holidaymakers from potential losses
definitely thats a good idea Jim, it would be a good thing to introduce.
Right now if you book something on your card and you don't receive the service you've paid for you can fairly easily claim the money back.
We actually had someone stay and then try and claim the money back after, the amount of hoops we had to jump through to keep the money was crazy!!! Card companies are on the side of the client not the company,
i dont know many businesses where you have to pay the full amount 10 weeks before the point of service. these owners are onto a good thing no wonder many are prepared to break the law and risk fines.
Hi If you book with a travel agent payment is due approx 10 weeks before departure. 3 times I have been to Yucca park and all times had to pay balance along time before we went
But do remember, if the owner is caught between now and your holiday next spring and receives an 18 grand fine as a result there is a possibility they may "dissapear" and I doubt you would have any recourse in law. If you can reserve without parting with your cash then that is a safer bet. Your alternative might be to make friends with, and/or become one of the family of the owners of the apartment you just stayed in!
I don't see the difference and the the same may apply - friend/ family or not. i.e. he may in the meantime get an18k fine and still disappear.
Personally, and it is just a personal view, I would say that the agents for legal tourist complexes would be a fairly safe bet, and even if they were to cease trading their successor(s) would presumably be more likely to honour previous bookings on behalf of the clients they represent. Individuals operating outside the law would be less likely to be so honest.
Regarding an earlier post, the National Elections have nothing to do with this. It is a Canarian Law, upheld by the EU when it was challenged, the forthcoming elections will have no impact on the law itself - the impact on the overall Spanish economy is another discussion though.
I don't see the difference and the the same may apply - friend/ family or not. i.e. he may in the meantime get an18k fine and still disappear.
Spot on - I was being flippant
Added after 2 minutes:
Hi If you book with a travel agent payment is due approx 10 weeks before departure. 3 times I have been to Yucca park and all times had to pay balance along time before we went
But Yes, you have recourse in law to an agent like Thomson for example. You have none to the bloke in the pub that you rented your apartment from.
If you are considering renting on a residential complex for your holidays then please keep in mind that the owner residents on some complexes are now looking out for illegal lettings and they could make your holiday somewhat miserable.Imagine arriving at Graciosa II for example and seeing a sign on the door that states something along the lines of....... If you are renting an apartment on this complex for holiday use, then you could be evicted by the police.Great start to your hols.
If you are considering renting on a residential complex for your holidays then please keep in mind that the owner residents on some complexes are now looking out for illegal lettings and they could make your holiday somewhat miserable.Imagine arriving at Graciosa II for example and seeing a sign on the door that states something along the lines of....... If you are renting an apartment on this complex for holiday use, then you could be evicted by the police.Great start to your hols.
I think this was covered before, but ( as far as I know) the police cannot evict someone from property to which the owner has given permission to access. With regards to guarantees, don't Ownersdirect offer a £3000 guarantee when booking your accomodation through them?
If you are considering renting on a residential complex for your holidays then please keep in mind that the owner residents on some complexes are now looking out for illegal lettings and they could make your holiday somewhat miserable.Imagine arriving at Graciosa II for example and seeing a sign on the door that states something along the lines of....... If you are renting an apartment on this complex for holiday use, then you could be evicted by the police.Great start to your hols.
Do you think someone would do that? I mean it's one thing reporting the owners via the proper channels but to spoil someone's holiday when they are innocent anyway seems rather vindictive.
junglejim
31-07-2011, 17:47
Just read Tom & Sharons posts´to see how high the feelings are about renting to holiday makers on Residential properties .
That's very interesting if true, can we confirm if the Police can or will evict people staying in illegal accommodation?????
Also I don't think Owners Direct offer any safety in booking through them, they don't even verify tat people own the properties listed on their website.
junglejim
31-07-2011, 17:57
That's very interesting if true, can we confirm if the Police can or will evict people staying in illegal accommodation?????
Also I don't think Owners Direct offer any safety in booking through them, they don't even verify tat people own the properties listed on their website.
Just what the tourist market in Tenerife needs !! Evictions on the TV - the equivalent of warrant sales and poindings - bring back Tommy Sheridan !!
That's very interesting if true, can we confirm if the Police can or will evict people staying in illegal accommodation?????
Also I don't think Owners Direct offer any safety in booking through them, they don't even verify tat people own the properties listed on their website.
Had a quick look on Owners direct and you're right, there is no mention of a guarantee. There was one last year however ( we availed of it) but they no longer offer it ( read into this what you will)
If you are considering renting on a residential complex for your holidays then please keep in mind that the owner residents on some complexes are now looking out for illegal lettings and they could make your holiday somewhat miserable.Imagine arriving at Graciosa II for example and seeing a sign on the door that states something along the lines of....... If you are renting an apartment on this complex for holiday use, then you could be evicted by the police.Great start to your hols.
There is no way the Police would get involved in anything like this - it would be considered a civil matter which they would not touch - what a vile thing to do to scare off people :(
That's very interesting if true, can we confirm if the Police can or will evict people staying in illegal accommodation?????
Also I don't think Owners Direct offer any safety in booking through them, they don't even verify tat people own the properties listed on their website.
Re;Police ,I shouldn't think so for a minute but not a great greeting if you've just arrived from UK and don't know if eviction is possible!
Added after 2 minutes:
There is no way the Police would get involved in anything like this - it would be considered a civil matter which they would not touch - what a vile thing to do to scare off people :(
Yes, you´re right,it looks horrible even if you just go into the complex for a visit,really menacing,can't imagine what a family who arrives would think.It just shows where we are at on the subject!
Had a quick look on Owners direct and you're right, there is no mention of a guarantee. There was one last year however ( we availed of it) but they no longer offer it ( read into this what you will)
Probably only because they now Sell Insurance to cover yourself. I filled it in as an excercise and it was £130 for two weeks in August!!!!
They obviously get a good commission from that.
Red Devil
31-07-2011, 20:06
Re;Police ,I shouldn't think so for a minute but not a great greeting if you've just arrived from UK and don't know if eviction is possible!
Added after 2 minutes:
Yes, you´re right,it looks horrible even if you just go into the complex for a visit,really menacing,can't imagine what a family who arrives would think.It just shows where we are at on the subject!
Graciosa's stand on lettings has nothing to do with this illegal lettings thread, they have always been very strict on a residents only policy going back many years and have not hesitated in the past in serving denuncias.
Even a local estate agent who bought on there for holiday lettings years ago had to admit defeat and sell, so nothing has changed there.
Incidentally Tom & Sharon dont live in a particularly touristy area so they would feel aggrieved at holidaymakers - it could be a different opinion amongst the majority of owners in places such as Dinastia & El Mirador, in fact you would have to question why anyone wanting peace and quiet (ie no holidaymakers) would consider buying in such a good central location.
So it's ok to expect peace and quiet at graciosa but not at el mirador directly opposite one another?
That's very interesting if true, can we confirm if the Police can or will evict people staying in illegal accommodation?????
Also I don't think Owners Direct offer any safety in booking through them, they don't even verify tat people own the properties listed on their website.
I asked a question elsewhere and got an answer from a very respected person who has said that the police will have no interested in kicking out or evicting holidaymakers over this.Purely a civil matter so no scaremongering please
I asked a question elsewhere and got an answer from a very respected person who has said that the police will have no interested in kicking out or evicting holidaymakers over this.Purely a civil matter so no scaremongering please
Good enough for me, sounds a boy drastic
I meant a bit drastic not a boy lol
I would second that AJP - she whose name may not pass a keyboard would know the implications, as would doreen here, and true you will not be evicted by the local police.
But, for clarification, and before this thread starts to go around in circles, what we know is.
Inspectors have issued 18k fines to some owners - all of whom used internet sites to promote the let
Similar owners appear to be getting cold feet and likely to pull their rents from the net
Other owners may yet receive an 18k fine and when they do will also remove their pad from the net.
If a tourist wants to take the risk of the owner they are renting from "going underground" on receipt of a fine that is their decision.
If a tourist rents a "legal" pad from a travel agent and it becomes unavailable, then the compensation schemes would kick in and at least alternative pads would be offered.
The same cannot be true for "under cover" lets of "illegal" pads.
As I said earlier, it is your money, nobody can tell you how to spend it. If you have plenty and are prepared to take a risk, please do so, if you have saved all year and scraped money together for a holiday and would prefer not to take a risk, then you know what to do.
It really is "simples". What seems clear is that the overall situation will become worse as time goes on. Once the appeals against fines have been heard by the courts and the verdict is known, the real position will become much clearer.
Red Devil
31-07-2011, 23:25
So it's ok to expect peace and quiet at graciosa but not at el mirador directly opposite one another?
As you well know, the committee/residents made the decision at Graciosas, they didnt at the other two as it obviously wasnt what the committee/residents wanted.
But, for clarification, and before this thread starts to go around in circles, what we know is.
Similar owners appear to be getting cold feet and likely to pull their rents from the net SPECULATION
Other owners may yet receive an 18k fine and when they do will also remove their pad from the net. SPECULATION
What seems clear is that the overall situation will become worse as time goes on. SPECULATION
Once the appeals against fines have been heard by the courts and the verdict is known, the real position will become much clearer. SPECULATION
No, what we know is that a tiny miniscule number of owners have been issued with fines in the course of 7 months, effectively 8 as it's now August. Full stop.
What we also know is that the authorities have past history going back many years for announcing clampdowns, taking on new inspectors, and issuing a few fines now and again.
What we also know is that there has been a net gain of many hundreds of new rental residential properties since this latest clampdown began.
What we also know is that despite the mass hysteria on Tenerife forums, the local, national, and international media aren't interested.
That is not speculation.
Ann (Coxan56), please don't take any notice of these scaremongering posts. Given the above facts, you have more chance of having a booking cancelled for double booking or a property being sold - you would be quite surprised at the number of Canarian properties currently advertised for holiday rental which are up for sale. This has always been the case and will continue to be so.
Red Devil
01-08-2011, 07:21
Yes it would be good if we stuck to facts on here wouldn't it.
Thing is, the thread would only consist of about 2 pages then.
I emailed 2 owners that we have used previously to give them the heads up about the inspectors. They didn't know anything about them. They have, however, removed all bookings and mention of rental price from their ads. ( Though I have to say that they seem to be in a minority in doing this)
I emailed 2 owners that we have used previously to give them the heads up about the inspectors. They didn't know anything about them. They have, however, removed all bookings and mention of rental price from their ads. ( Though I have to say that they seem to be in a minority in doing this)
I hope you gave the a link here :)
It's incredible how many owners seem to have no knowledge of this considering the speed most things whizz round Tenerife.
Parque Margarita is like "Warrington - by - the - sea" and I know lots of the owners from home. Not one of them has mentioned it. ???
I hope you gave the a link here :)
I most certainly did!:)
Speculation mmmm good word, but hasn't there been much speculation that the inspectors didnt exist, or if the did would do nothing? Much from your direction too Hugh?.
I have no direct involvement in the present situation fortunately, but whilst it might be a speculative comment, I still maintain the real effect of the clamp down is yet to materialise. From both the inspection team and the already fined owners, the crunch will come as and when the courts begin to rule on the appeals against the fines.
If the fines are essentially upheld by the courts then the inspection teams are most likely to start sending out dozens a day on the grounds that the legal position has been confirmed by the courts. If the courts reduce the fines on appeal to effectively token gestures, then the chances are the inspection team will be disbanded and it be assumed that the law is unenforcable.
As I've said many times, for the moment and in light of the present uncertainty I would be nervous in the extreme to start booking holiday breaks in residential complexes and paying what amounts to a lot of money well in advance and risking that money doing a disapearing act because the recipiant has a large bill ahead of him.
What really worries me though is, what has been touched on previously, that the Island had an appaling reputation regarding time-share and is still suffering from the effects of holiday makers being ripped off by those we all know only too well.
If, and this is speculation, if the Island's Government continue with the implimentation of the law, and if the courts support the action, and if owners of apartments on residential complexes remain blissfully unaware of their crimes, then the reputation of the Island can only be damaged again.
CMEdinburgh
01-08-2011, 14:14
There is a further knock-on if the courts uphold these fines.
There will be a flood of owners selling up, having relied on retail income to help cover the costs of their holiday homes. This will depress property prices, and still further reduce income to bars, restaurants etc.
I for one know of several who are actively considering doing just this!
I on the other hand Muppet would not feel nervous at all. There's an element of risk in most things. If you're that way inclined then you probably wouldn't be using that route anyway. You'd be taking the trip to the travel agent's to see the nice lady in the uniform who will flick through the brochure with you etc. I can see a risk but to me it's no bigger than it's ever been. If the digs went down you'd still have your flights wouldn't you? I have every confidence that I will get in somewhere that I like in the future. :)
moonlighter
01-08-2011, 14:22
There is a further knock-on if the courts uphold these fines.
There will be a flood of owners selling up, having relied on retail income to help cover the costs of their holiday homes. This will depress property prices, and still further reduce income to bars, restaurants etc.
I for one know of several who are actively considering doing just this!
And you are not alone :(
The question is, where are all the buyers going to come from when they are told they cannot rent out their investment to cover their outgoings?
Santiago
01-08-2011, 14:29
I discovered this when trolling the internet for any latest information. Looks like Brussels agrees with the Canarian Government and there is no further option. http://www.lanzarote37.net/en/detail/home/detail/article/decision_from_brussels_brprivate_rentals_are_illeg al/21.html
By the way, this is dated on today's date!
Most of this thread is about illegal letting in complexes,which are pretty straightforward,having spent several months in discussion with lawyers they have concluded that the law on villas is as follows,if a contract is drawn up between the owner and the agent that holds a licence and all bookings are made through that agent then the agent can legally let these properties out
Its not that straightforward though Chris, With this 50 + 1 ruling there are probably as many touristic sites not adhering to the laws as there are residencial complexes illegally letting, And then there is still the old chestnut of friends and family to come into the equation.;)
*Phones Uncle Pepe* :devil:
Most of this thread is about illegal letting in complexes,which are pretty straightforward,having spent several months in discussion with lawyers they have concluded that the law on villas is as follows,if a contract is drawn up between the owner and the agent that holds a licence and all bookings are made through that agent then the agent can legally let these properties out
Agree on single villas but is that the case if the villas are part of a community?
Yes AL you are right the apartments are indeed a big issue, sorry maybe i am being a little selfish but the villas are more important to me at the moment.
Sorry loaded, i am talking single villas and not part of a complex
I discovered this when trolling the internet for any latest information. Looks like Brussels agrees with the Canarian Government and there is no further option. http://www.lanzarote37.net/en/detail/home/detail/article/decision_from_brussels_brprivate_rentals_are_illeg al/21.html
By the way, this is dated on today's date!
No, not today's news - goes back to 2006 decision already mentioned on here - it's just the way it shows up on that site with today's date
Here's an entry from a Lanzarote forum:
Continuing Saga - For Private Lettings (Non Family & Friends)
Posted by: pete (IP Logged)
Date: April 10, 2006 03:58PM
News has emerged from Brussels that the European Commission has dropped its opposition to the controversial rule obliging owners of holiday apartments in the Canaries to let their properties through a single management company.
Sources in Brussels say that the rule, part of the Canarian Tourism Law passed in 1995, was under investigation because of concerns that the sole letting company obligation amounted to a restrictive practice. The investigation was triggered several years ago after a complaint by a Briton who was opposed to the arrangement. The Commission now says that it has received the appropriate information from the authorities here and is satisfied at the justification given for the measure, namely, that the rule is in the general interest and offers greater consumer protection.
junglejim
01-08-2011, 15:28
Its not that straightforward though Chris, With this 50 + 1 ruling there are probably as many touristic sites not adhering to the laws as there are residencial complexes illegally letting, And then there is still the old chestnut of friends and family to come into the equation.;)
*Phones Uncle Pepe* :devil:
Our complex is Touristic, doesn´t have a management agency but is heavily booked through to easter next year - so things must be getting tighter elswhere ?
¡You called sobrino - digame !
897 :callme:
Peterrayner
01-08-2011, 15:57
Our complex is Touristic, doesn´t have a management agency but is heavily booked through to easter next year
If the complex (touristic or not) doesnt have a managment agent in place with the 50% + 1 letting rights then as I understand it all "open" lettings are prohibited under the 1995 law.
This is because the registration would lapse and the apartments must be registered with a sole letting agent to be openly offered for touristic lettings.
Santiago
01-08-2011, 16:40
No, not today's news - goes back to 2006 decision already mentioned on here - it's just the way it shows up on that site with today's date
Here's an entry from a Lanzarote forum:
Continuing Saga - For Private Lettings (Non Family & Friends)
Sorry, Doreen, was just trying to be helpful. I was really looking for some good news but sadly couldn't find any!!
Posted by: pete (IP Logged)
Date: April 10, 2006 03:58PM
News has emerged from Brussels that the European Commission has dropped its opposition to the controversial rule obliging owners of holiday apartments in the Canaries to let their properties through a single management company.
Sources in Brussels say that the rule, part of the Canarian Tourism Law passed in 1995, was under investigation because of concerns that the sole letting company obligation amounted to a restrictive practice. The investigation was triggered several years ago after a complaint by a Briton who was opposed to the arrangement. The Commission now says that it has received the appropriate information from the authorities here and is satisfied at the justification given for the measure, namely, that the rule is in the general interest and offers greater consumer protection.
Sorry, Doreen, was just trying to be helpful. I was really looking for some good news but sadly couldn't find any!!
I_N_Cognito
01-08-2011, 17:42
Apart from the nine notifications of fines (7 Dinastia & 2 Graciosa) previously reported on the forum some two weeks ago, is there any further factual knowledge of action being taken.
Janet As report printed on the forum referred to there being a pile of fines on a solicitors desk relating to more than one complex, does this refer to the above, or are the numbers involved larger than previously reported and involve more complexes.
Red Devil
01-08-2011, 17:52
If the complex (touristic or not) doesnt have a managment agent in place with the 50% + 1 letting rights then as I understand it all "open" lettings are prohibited under the 1995 law.
This is because the registration would lapse and the apartments must be registered with a sole letting agent to be openly offered for touristic lettings.
Al Jay is right, So..... as well as telling everyone to book a holiday on a touristic complex only, the advice is also to check that that complex also has a majority management agent operating it, otherwise they are just as illegal as on a residential complex with the same perceived risks, cancellation of bookings likely, owner abandoning the place cos they cant pay the fine etc etc, guests being forcibly removed screaming into the street, insurance invalidated??? eek2:eek2:
Apart from the nine notifications of fines (7 Dinastia & 2 Graciosa) previously reported on the forum some two weeks ago, is there any further factual knowledge of action being taken.
Janet As report printed on the forum referred to there being a pile of fines on a solicitors desk relating to more than one complex, does this refer to the above, or are the numbers involved larger than previously reported and involve more complexes.
I will try to find out when I see the lawyer in question tomorrow over something completely different :)
junglejim
01-08-2011, 19:21
Al Jay is right, So..... as well as telling everyone to book a holiday on a touristic complex only, the advice is also to check that that complex also has a majority management agent operating it, otherwise they are just as illegal as on a residential complex with the same perceived risks, cancellation of bookings likely, owner abandoning the place cos they cant pay the fine etc etc, guests being forcibly removed screaming into the street, insurance invalidated??? eek2:eek2:
Shouldn't this post be in Al Jay 's other thread on UFO'S as it's just as fanciful and unlikely - or as they say "Ye took that too far there !! ":spaceship:
The consumer is going to have trouble the "illegal" ones that's for sure.
The consumer is going to have trouble the "illegal" ones that's for sure.
Not trying to be smart or anything, but how do you come to that conclusion?
Red Devil
01-08-2011, 19:57
Shouldn't this post be in Al Jay 's other thread on UFO'S as it's just as fanciful and unlikely - or as they say "Ye took that too far there !! ":spaceship:
Tongue in cheek Jim, tongue in cheek.
Even so they are more or less the exact suggestions of what might happen with an illegal residential let.
Tongue in cheek Jim, tongue in cheek.
Even so they are more or less the exact suggestions of what might happen with an illegal residential let.
I agree, all are possibilities with the exception of being forcibly removed
If the fines are essentially upheld by the courts then the inspection teams are most likely to start sending out dozens a day on the grounds that the legal position has been confirmed by the courts. If the courts reduce the fines on appeal to effectively token gestures, then the chances are the inspection team will be disbanded and it be assumed that the law is unenforcable.
Interesting. So why wait 7 months before testing the law?
You're making this up as you go along aren't you?
Not trying to be smart or anything, but how do you come to that conclusion?
Sorry my post was a bit garbled lol. I meant the consumer is going to have trouble figuring out who is and isn't legal , it's too hard to tell kn a lot of cases
Family and friends is fine,owning on a residencial complex and commercially renting out to every Tom,richard and Harry week in and week out isn't :censored:
Hughsyb
PM me your address in the UK and i'll buy the house next door to you and rent it out to every Tom,Richard and Harry whilst sitting back with my feet up in Tenerife watching the money come rolling in and see if you like it.
I bought on a RESIDENTIAL complex for peace and quiet,if i wanted to party i'd have bought on a TOURISTIC complex.
Surely your Family and friends are there on holiday ? So you are telling me, they wont make any noise.
Where ever you live in this world you could have noisy neighbours, whether they live there
or are just on holiday.
Sorry my post was a bit garbled lol. I meant the consumer is going to have trouble figuring out who is and isn't legal , it's too hard to tell kn a lot of cases
Would it not be the case that as the consumer is not going to get in trouble, whether the apartment is legal or not, they will just book anyway (particularly if they have dealt with the owner before)?
Would it not be the case that as the consumer is not going to get in trouble, whether the apartment is legal or not, they will just book anyway (particularly if they have dealt with the owner before)?
Could well definitely maybe, be so!
Interesting. So why wait 7 months before testing the law?
You're making this up as you go along aren't you?
No idea why they waited for 7 months - but it appears they did. Logic would suggest that they were seeking an initial batch of properties upon which they were absolutely certain of their facts before acting so that when tested in court, as they surely would be, there would be no questions on the facts, just a decision to be made on whether to uphold the level of the fine, or adjust it accordingly (upward or downward).
Logic would also suggest that the Tourisim Cheif would have had a preliminary discussion with the courts as to the level of fine they would likely uphold so as to send out a clear message to those guilty of the crime and other interested parties of the consequences of breaking the law.
Keeping with the same theme, once the initial appeals have been heard and the outcome known, and assuming the courts and the Tourism department are singing from the same hymn sheet, the chances of a significant increase in fines being issued would be expected, if nothing else to cement the implimentation of the law firmly in the minds of those affected and to recoup the costs of the investigation.
You are correct that I have no certainty in my thoughts, just logic. There again, nobody else does either and with respect that includes you?
Thanks Muppet but my logic tells me something different.
However, I have taken on board your logic that the inspection teams will either be sending out hundreds of fines a week, or that they will be disbanded because fines are reduced to next to nothing.
I await with bated breath to see which one it is - or neither.
I_N_Cognito
03-08-2011, 15:39
Originally Posted by I_N_Cognito
Apart from the nine notifications of fines (7 Dinastia & 2 Graciosa) previously reported on the forum some two weeks ago, is there any further factual knowledge of action being taken.
Janet As report printed on the forum referred to there being a pile of fines on a solicitors desk relating to more than one complex, does this refer to the above, or are the numbers involved larger than previously reported and involve more complexes.
I will try to find out when I see the lawyer in question tomorrow over something completely different :)
Any feedback from your solicitor.
princessmonika
04-08-2011, 08:35
how did they arrive with that amount of 18,000:idea:
Peterrayner
04-08-2011, 08:43
how did they arrive with that amount of 18,000:idea:
Thats a good question !!
The fines I am told run between 1500 - 6000E for a Minor Infraction, then 6,000 - 30,000E for a Serious Infraction and 30,000 - 300,000E for a Very Serious Infraction.
These cases all seem to have been decided in the Serious Catagory and 18,000E is bank in the midddle of that range.
Originally Posted by I_N_Cognito
Apart from the nine notifications of fines (7 Dinastia & 2 Graciosa) previously reported on the forum some two weeks ago, is there any further factual knowledge of action being taken.
Janet As report printed on the forum referred to there being a pile of fines on a solicitors desk relating to more than one complex, does this refer to the above, or are the numbers involved larger than previously reported and involve more complexes.
Any feedback from your solicitor.
Sorry, I should have come back sooner ... no, the "pile on his desk" was not new fines to be appealed but yes, he has been contacted by others with regard to representing them, but as such no further appeals lodged yet. As I had guessed, it is not a Court per se, that he has appealed to, rather a Functionary.
I've just read an interesting post by Janet on individual villas and am off to seek her permission to see if we can copy it here :)
Red Devil
04-08-2011, 11:34
Doreen, just wondered, are you able to edit people's posts, anyone's I mean? Just looking at post 905? :)
Doreen, just wondered, are you able to edit people's posts, anyone's I mean? Just looking at post 905? :)
Yes :) Secret Powers ... we are just sorting that issue now and I hope to be able to put on a valuable contribution by Janet ******** who is involved in helping one individual villa get registered
Red Devil
04-08-2011, 11:47
Sorry, not sure I understand first bit, are you able to edit anyones post?
Is anyone aware of an residential complexes that have, or are considering applying for the necessary change to become a mixed or tourism site?
princessmonika
04-08-2011, 13:17
can you do that by law:confused:
Peterrayner
04-08-2011, 13:28
can you do that by law:confused:
Yes in theory it seems possible is the legal advice.
On older residential sites it needs 50% +1 of the available apartments to agree at an AGM and then they would need to upgrade the complex to meet the requirments of the Tourismo ie fire alarms reception sole letting agent etc etc.
On some newer complexes depending on the statues of the community it would need a 100% vote and indeed some statues might even prohibit that
This is interesting.
Is this not the same person who some months ago advised everyone renting out illegally to stop IMMEDIATELY?
Now they seem to be condoning someone to carry on renting out illegally while anonymous enquiries are made.
Seems like a bit of a U turn to me.
As far as I'm aware, this lady thinks that the enforcement of this law is touristic suicide and when she advised people against renting, it was from a purely legal point of view. ( Apologies if I got the wrong end of the stick!):o
This is interesting.
Is this not the same person who some months ago advised everyone renting out illegally to stop IMMEDIATELY?
Now they seem to be condoning someone to carry on renting out illegally while anonymous enquiries are made.
Seems like a bit of a U turn to me.
I would have thought it should be interesting to you as a villa owner ... or are you still denying the earth is round :)
Tom & Sharon
04-08-2011, 14:50
The residential villas near to us which have been in the Thomson "Villas with Pools" brochure for years have disappeared from the summer 2012 brochure.
In fact, Tenerife isn't in it at all.
bonitatime
04-08-2011, 15:02
i dont know many businesses where you have to pay the full amount 10 weeks before the point of service. these owners are onto a good thing no wonder many are prepared to break the law and risk fines.
Not sure who you book flights with but scheduled flights need to be paid when you book.
As to the Yucca park question if you have stayed there several times and trust the owner i would probably risk it. I didnt realise they were no longer a tourist complx
jogger321
04-08-2011, 15:08
Not sure who you book flights with but scheduled flights need to be paid when you book.
As to the Yucca park question if you have stayed there several times and trust the owner i would probably risk it. I didnt realise they were no longer a tourist complx
Just shows what a mess the whole thing is
For information..Yucca despite what people may think has NEVER had a touristic licence. It was a timeshare complex part of the Palmer empire siezed as part of his assets and later sold off.
bonitatime
04-08-2011, 15:13
Just shows what a mess the whole thing is
For information..Yucca despite what people may think has NEVER had a touristic licence. It was a timeshare complex part of the Palmer empire siezed as part of his assets and later sold off.
You learn something every day. I presumed as timeshare they had a tourist license. but perhaps that just got missed.
You learn something every day. I presumed as timeshare they had a tourist license. but perhaps that just got missed.
It is a question of how they are sold off ... in hughysby's land, one timeshare complex I know of, is half in half - Touristic where timeshare, sold off properties are Residential (will edit the post when I remember the name of the complex)
moonlighter
04-08-2011, 15:32
The residential villas near to us which have been in the Thomson "Villas with Pools" brochure for years have disappeared from the summer 2012 brochure.
In fact, Tenerife isn't in it at all.
Holiday companies pulling out already then!
willowlily
04-08-2011, 15:35
Not sure who you book flights with but scheduled flights need to be paid when you book.
As to the Yucca park question if you have stayed there several times and trust the owner i would probably risk it. I didnt realise they were no longer a tourist complx
i personally book flights 1 or 2 weeks before traveling but when i said i dont know many services that you have to pay in full 10 weeks i was meaning a cross range of service industry in general.
Holiday companies pulling out already then!
More paranoia.
Still advertising villas in Lanzarote and they're illegal.
More likely, people would rather go to Lanzarote than Tenerife. Who can blame them! ;)
delderek
04-08-2011, 16:09
Yes :) Secret Powers ... we are just sorting that issue now and I hope to be able to put on a valuable contribution by Janet ******** who is involved in helping one individual villa get registered
Does this now mean that Janet's name is not filtered out anymore? If so well done forum admin.
junglejim
04-08-2011, 16:17
Does this now mean that Janet's name is not filtered out anymore? If so well done forum admin.
Web Blog for J a n e t A n s c o m e
janet anscome dot com
Why is the name blocked out on here -her website is open to everyone except Forum Members now ?? Just google it !! :wave:
delderek
04-08-2011, 16:17
Yes in theory it seems possible is the legal advice.
On older residential sites it needs 50% +1 of the available apartments to agree at an AGM and then they would need to upgrade the complex to meet the requirments of the Tourismo ie fire alarms reception sole letting agent etc etc.
On some newer complexes depending on the statues of the community it would need a 100% vote and indeed some statues might even prohibit that
I think you will find it is not just a simple vote. 50+1% of owners must have signed and registered with the sole managing agent to obtain touristic status. Virtually impossible if sole managing agents or any letting agent can not legally set up on residential complexes.
Peterrayner
04-08-2011, 16:37
I think you will find it is not just a simple vote. 50+1% of owners must have signed and registered with the sole managing agent to obtain touristic status. Virtually impossible if sole managing agents or any letting agent can not legally set up on residential complexes.
Sorry Del didnt mean to imply it was just a simple vote...there is a whole raft of issues to be resolved.
My understanding is the vote has to be agreed FIRST by the owners either 50% +1 or 100% depending on statutes etc, then they can appoint a SL managment company or set one up themselves, then they also need to upgrade to tourisitc requirements, then they can apply for the licence.
According to legal advice the licence cannot then be denied !!!! ( Moritorium or no Moritorium !!!)
But in reality the costs of this exercise are likely to be prohibitive and so far as obtaining a 100% vote on residential complexes this is also likely to be unobtainable.
Good luck getting 100% agreement to change statutes!!! You can't get that amount of people to agree a walls white....
The residential villas near to us which have been in the Thomson "Villas with Pools" brochure for years have disappeared from the summer 2012 brochure.
In fact, Tenerife isn't in it at all.
All the makings of killing the Island as a tourist destination if you ask me!
Hardly, apart from villas the tour operators haven't advertised illegal accommodation . Their bread and butter will always be hotels and apartments
junglejim
05-08-2011, 07:35
I posted a reply to Hughsby 's comment yesterday which has disappeared along with Hughsby's original post'
Hughsby´s comment was
Quote Originally Posted by Hughsyb View Post
This is interesting.
Is this not the same person who some months ago advised everyone renting out illegally to stop IMMEDIATELY?
Now they seem to be condoning someone to carry on renting out illegally while anonymous enquiries are made.
Seems like a bit of a U turn to me.
My response was to check Janet´s blog where she was referring to stop advertising immediately.
What happened to the 2 posts?
I posted a reply to Hughsby 's comment yesterday which has disappeared along with Hughsby's original post'
Hughsby´s comment was
Quote Originally Posted by Hughsyb View Post
This is interesting.
Is this not the same person who some months ago advised everyone renting out illegally to stop IMMEDIATELY?
Now they seem to be condoning someone to carry on renting out illegally while anonymous enquiries are made.
Seems like a bit of a U turn to me.
My response was to check Janet´s blog where she was referring to stop advertising immediately.
What happened to the 2 posts?
It had the "J" word in it Jim..:laugh:
Personally I thought the post was enlightening. Either way, she can't be blamed because it was Doreen who posted it and I'm glad she did.
junglejim
05-08-2011, 08:52
I've obviously missed some secret signal here - will I need to get Dan Brown on the case ?:dontknow:
My response was to check Janet´s blog where she was referring to stop advertising immediately.
If you'd like to check posts on the other forum earlier this year, you will find that is not the case.
Is there an "off" button anywhere?
Is there an "off" button anywhere?
Or an "F" :laugh:
Now, now. No need to be cheeky just because I have a different opinion from everyone else on here. You may not agree with it but I am entitled to express it.
Is it not better that an alternative point of view is put across so that people can consider both sides and make up their own minds, rather than have the same interpretation of any events, or non events for that matter, put forward time after time?
Now, now. No need to be cheeky just because I have a different opinion from everyone else on here. You may not agree with it but I am entitled to express it.
Is it not better that an alternative point of view is put across so that people can consider both sides and make up their own minds, rather than have the same interpretation of any events, or non events for that matter, put forward time after time?
My smiley dig, and that's all it was, was because you appeared more interested in saying "isn't this the same person" etc which seemed to serve no pupose whatsoever. Going round in circles is one thing, going backwards is another.
I posted a reply to Hughsby 's comment yesterday which has disappeared along with Hughsby's original post'
Hughsby´s comment was
Quote Originally Posted by Hughsyb View Post
This is interesting.
Is this not the same person who some months ago advised everyone renting out illegally to stop IMMEDIATELY?
Now they seem to be condoning someone to carry on renting out illegally while anonymous enquiries are made.
Seems like a bit of a U turn to me.
My response was to check Janet´s blog where she was referring to stop advertising immediately.
What happened to the 2 posts?
I,ll plead guilty to altering 2 post's to show Janets e-mail addy in a form suitable for the Forum, as for the others , sorry nothing to do with me
Thanks for the info very interesting.
cheshiremike
05-08-2011, 18:37
As a regular visitor to Tenerife over the last 20 years, I have always rented an apartment on a 'residential' complex. Never once have I been dissapointed with the standard of accomodation. The apartments I've stayed in have all been privately owned, are nicely furnished and well equipped.
After reading this thread from start to finish, although much seems to be speculation, I do know of one poor owner who has had a visit and a hefty fine is pending. Other owners have got cold feet and tell me they wont be letting in the future.
It now seems clear that I have very little choice left ... hotel ... or a 'touristic' complex ... neither of which appeals to me. Sad to say my visit to tenerife last March will now be my last ! I'm sure I wont be the only one looking elsewhere for some sun this winter. I will really miss Tenerife and the many friends I have made there over the years.
churnlobster
05-08-2011, 18:49
As a regular visitor to Tennerife over the last 20 years, I have always rented an apartment on a 'residential' complex. Never once have I been dissapointed with the standard of accomodation. The apartments I've stayed in have all been privately owned, are nicely furnished and well equipped.
After reading this thread from start to finish, although much seems to be speculation, I do know of one poor owner who has had a visit and a hefty fine is pending. Other owners have got cold feet and tell me they wont be letting in the future.
It now seems clear that I have very little choice left ... hotel ... or a 'touristic' complex neither of which appeals to me. Sad to say my visit to Tenerife last March will now be my last ! I'm sure I wont be the only one looking elsewhere for some sun this winter. I will really miss Tenerife and the many friends I have made there over the years.
No offense cause everyone is entitled to an opinion and choice but you cant have liked Tenerife that much if the only reason you wont be coming back is that you don't like touristic complexes and hotels, i would say that was snobbery, but hey ho for every 1 that doesn't want to come here there are more that do, so Tenerife wont collapse.
cheshiremike
05-08-2011, 19:23
I find your response very offensive, why does having the choice of where I want to stay make me a snob ? I'm getting on in years and like my 'home comforts' .... whats wrong with that ? Its MY choice where I choose to stay and that choice has now been taken away ! Staying in an unknown touristic complex does'nt appeal to me .... end of ! if that makes me a snob then guilty as charged.
I'm sure tenerife will survive without me, but you have to admit visitor numbers have dropped dramatically over the years ... Fact. This law just makes matters worse.
churnlobster
05-08-2011, 19:31
I find your response very offensive, I would like to know why you consider me a 'snob' ? I'm getting on in years and like my 'home comforts' .... whats wrong with that ? Its MY choice where I choose to stay and it certainly wont be in an unknown 'touristic complex' !!!
Furthermore visitor numbers have been on the decline for many years and this new law wont help matters.
As i said in my post everyone is entitled to an opinion and choice, so you have your opinion and i said my opinion is it sounds like snobbery, which is MY opinion and im entitled to that just as you are to YOUR opinion on what you think.
So you wont go to an unknown touristic complex but unfortunately everything is unknown until you have been once.....
As a regular visitor to Tenerife over the last 20 years, I have always rented an apartment on a 'residential' complex. Never once have I been dissapointed with the standard of accomodation. The apartments I've stayed in have all been privately owned, are nicely furnished and well equipped.
After reading this thread from start to finish, although much seems to be speculation, I do know of one poor owner who has had a visit and a hefty fine is pending. Other owners have got cold feet and tell me they wont be letting in the future.
It now seems clear that I have very little choice left ... hotel ... or a 'touristic' complex ... neither of which appeals to me. Sad to say my visit to tenerife last March will now be my last ! I'm sure I wont be the only one looking elsewhere for some sun this winter. I will really miss Tenerife and the many friends I have made there over the years.
Come on Mike. What you're saying is that one block has pulled the plug. Surely this is no different than if they were fully booked and you couldn't get in when you wanted to? One block? Are you're even prepared to look at another? There are lots of them, probably very close to where you like now. What would you do if they pulled the place down? I'm afraid your post doesn't make sense and with regard to numbers, I think you'll find they're up not down.
Come on Mike. What you're saying is that one block has pulled the plug. Surely this is no different than if they were fully booked and you couldn't get in when you wanted to? One block? Are you're even prepared to look at another? There are lots of them, probably very close to where you like now. What would you do if they pulled the place down? I'm afraid your post doesn't make sense and with regard to numbers, I think you'll find they're up not down.it seems to me that the simplest thing to do is either make very good friends with the owner or marry into the family!!! simples:D
Goforgold
05-08-2011, 20:27
As a regular visitor to Tenerife over the last 20 years, I have always rented an apartment on a 'residential' complex. Never once have I been dissapointed with the standard of accomodation. The apartments I've stayed in have all been privately owned, are nicely furnished and well equipped.
After reading this thread from start to finish, although much seems to be speculation, I do know of one poor owner who has had a visit and a hefty fine is pending. Other owners have got cold feet and tell me they wont be letting in the future.
It now seems clear that I have very little choice left ... hotel ... or a 'touristic' complex ... neither of which appeals to me. Sad to say my visit to tenerife last March will now be my last ! I'm sure I wont be the only one looking elsewhere for some sun this winter. I will really miss Tenerife and the many friends I have made there over the years.
My feelings are similar to yours. However my visit at the end of the year will definitely not be my last, I enjoy the winter sun far too much to be put off. We need to see what the outcome is first, but I'm sure I will find somewhere that will suit for the New Year, even if it means knowing enough about the Owner to be able to go on Mastermind!!
cheshiremike
05-08-2011, 20:35
If you are refering to blocks of apartments then I have stayed in many different ones over the years so I dont need to look further (as you suggest). I am well aware there are lots of them but only two meet my present needs and both are 'residential' (the owners no longer letting due to fear of being fined).
I have walking difficulties and therefore limited to certain locations and I dont want to stay on a touristic complex full of screaming kids !!
I really dont know why I have to explain myself like this but those are the facts.
Frankly I wish I had'nt bothered posting now.
If you are refering to 'blocks' of apartments then I have stayed in many different ones over the years so I dont need to look (as you suggest). I am well aware there are lots of them but only two meet my present requirements and both are 'residential' (and owners no longer letting)
I have walking difficulties and therefore limited to certain locations and I dont want to stay on a touristic complex full of screaming kids !!
I really dont know why I have to explain myself like this but those are the facts.
Frankly I wish I had'nt bothered posting now.Hi Mike I agree with a lot of what you say.Having stayed in both types of lettings.Please keep posting,this thread can go in circles,although lately, through someone who ,a lot of people respect,it has moved on.Maybe people will only see the damage this law will do over a few years
cheshiremike
05-08-2011, 22:51
Hi Mike I agree with a lot of what you say.Having stayed in both types of lettings.Please keep posting,this thread can go in circles,although lately, through someone who ,a lot of people respect,it has moved on.Maybe people will only see the damage this law will do over a few years
Thanks ! nice to know someone on the forum can see things from MY point of view.
Thanks ! nice to know someone on the forum can see things from MY point of view.
I would agree with practically everything you said except maybe the screaming kids. You can get these on any complex, residential or tourist. However, I, for one, have brought up my kids to respect others and behave themselves. ( P.S> my kids also prefer the superior accommodation in residential places ( in general) to that of the tourist places with all its bars, kids areas, loud music and entertainment. I have always found this weird,though maybe its my kids who are strange). So, in ending, keep posting. We need an antidote to those who try to shout down other opinions bar their own. ( a small minority I might add).
Thanks ! nice to know someone on the forum can see things from MY point of view.
I have also said more or less the same as yourself on this thread Mike, but i shall continue to holiday there and won't let an unworkable law stop me staying where i want to stay ;)
Only you can decide on wether you come back to Tenerife if you can't stay where you wanted , however I'm sure if you gave it a chance you'd find a lot of quality alternative accommodation
I do know of one poor owner who has had a visit and a hefty fine is pending. Other owners have got cold feet and tell me they wont be letting in the future.
It now seems clear that I have very little choice left ... hotel ... or a 'touristic' complex ... neither of which appeals to me. Sad to say my visit to tenerife last March will now be my last ! I'm sure I wont be the only one looking elsewhere for some sun this winter. I will really miss Tenerife and the many friends I have made there over the years.
First time poster? Someone's on the troll. rolleyes2:
cheshiremike
06-08-2011, 00:45
First time poster on the NEW forum ... YES !! was a member for several years on the OLD forum !! So who exactly is this 'someone on the troll' you refer to ??
You!
With statements like............
I do know of one poor owner who has had a visit and a hefty fine is pending.
And................
Other owners have got cold feet and tell me they wont be letting in the future.
And..............
It now seems clear that I have very little choice left ... hotel ... or a 'touristic' complex
When the reality is that there is a far bigger choice of accommodation than there was 7 months ago when the "clampdown" began.
It's clear you're just trying to stir it.
cheshiremike
06-08-2011, 01:23
[QUOTE=Hughsyb;75550]You!
With statements like............
I do know of one poor owner who has had a visit and a hefty fine is pending.
And................
Other owners have got cold feet and tell me they wont be letting in the future.
And..............
It now seems clear that I have very little choice left ... hotel ... or a 'touristic' complex
When the reality is that there is a far bigger choice of accommodation than there was 7 months ago when the "clampdown" began.
It's clear you're just trying to stir it.[/QUOT
Seems you are the only one on here with that opinion ... and you know what you can do with it !
It may be clear to YOU for some reason, but apparenly no one else sees it that way.
The only thing I'm stirring is a cup of tea !!
Goforgold
06-08-2011, 05:27
.................................................. ...
This saying and writing .... 'no offence but' is always followed by a rude, unkind or offensive comment. Very clever because it puts the writer on the 'high ground' - I do wish it would stop.
I have also said more or less the same as yourself on this thread Mike, but i shall continue to holiday there and won't let an unworkable law stop me staying where i want to stay ;)
This is exactly the point I was trying to make.
I wouldn't wish to offend anyone with my posts Mike.I didn't find your post snobby but I thought it was a bit over the top. Surely if you're restricted to one or two apartments in Tenerife then you'd have a problem finding suitable accomodation in Majorca, Ibiza etc? There are people on this forum, indeed on this very thread, who can help you find a place and hopefully you'd still be able to holiday where you want to be. For me that's the best thing about the forum.
There is a poster on this thread who shouldn't throw stones in glasshouses. The words "pot, kettle and black" spring to mind!
moonlighter
06-08-2011, 10:39
You!
With statements like............
I do know of one poor owner who has had a visit and a hefty fine is pending.
And................
Other owners have got cold feet and tell me they wont be letting in the future.
And..............
It now seems clear that I have very little choice left ... hotel ... or a 'touristic' complex
When the reality is that there is a far bigger choice of accommodation than there was 7 months ago when the "clampdown" began.
It's clear you're just trying to stir it.
You don't half talk a load of ****e rolleyes2:rolleyes2:
This is exactly the point I was trying to make.
I wouldn't wish to offend anyone with my posts Mike.I didn't find your post snobby but I thought it was a bit over the top. Surely if you're restricted to one or two apartments in Tenerife then you'd have a problem finding suitable accomodation in Majorca, Ibiza etc? There are people on this forum, indeed on this very thread, who can help you find a place and hopefully you'd still be able to holiday where you want to be. For me that's the best thing about the forum.
Bingo! !!!!
junglejim
06-08-2011, 11:17
This is exactly the point I was trying to make.
I wouldn't wish to offend anyone with my posts Mike.I didn't find your post snobby but I thought it was a bit over the top. Surely if you're restricted to one or two apartments in Tenerife then you'd have a problem finding suitable accomodation in Majorca, Ibiza etc? There are people on this forum, indeed on this very thread, who can help you find a place and hopefully you'd still be able to holiday where you want to be. For me that's the best thing about the forum.
I agree - I´m sure if you are looking for good standard of accommodation then contacting by PM some of the members on here can supply you with photos etc of apts. and location.
From what I have seen previously you won´t be disappointed !
moonlighter
06-08-2011, 11:30
I agree - I´m sure if you are looking for good standard of accommodation then contacting by PM some of the members on here can supply you with photos etc of apts. and location.
From what I have seen previously you won´t be disappointed !
Dunno about that, he could be an inspector :whistle::whistle::D
junglejim
06-08-2011, 11:32
Dunno about that, he could be an inspector :whistle::whistle::D
Legal lettings !!
Peterrayner
06-08-2011, 11:36
Legal use !!
typo.................... :)
Tom & Sharon
06-08-2011, 12:48
it seems to me that the simplest thing to do is either make very good friends with the owner or marry into the family!!! simples:D
Or buy one............!!!!!!!!! ;)
junglejim
06-08-2011, 13:12
Or buy one............!!!!!!!!! ;)
He said simplest !
Tom & Sharon
06-08-2011, 13:23
typical (un)helpful comment !!!
I think you should stick to Cheshire,as you obviously missed the 'wink' smiley, Touchy!!!! ;)
Sad to say that Cheshire is not visiting us again and his sense of humour will be sorely missed!!!
Sundowner
06-08-2011, 16:02
I am so not getting this!
As I understand it, if you rent an apartment on a residential complex, it will be of a high standard, peaceful with no screaming kids!
However if you rent on a tourist complex it will be of low standard, noisey and full of screaming kids!
The bit I am not getting is........are the people who own on tourist complexes different to the ones who own on residential and are the people who rent on touristic complexes different to the ones on residential???
junglejim
06-08-2011, 16:10
I am so not getting this!
As I understand it, if you rent an apartment on a residential complex, it will be of a high standard, peaceful with no screaming kids!
However if you rent on a tourist complex it will be of low standard, noisey and full of screaming kids!
The bit I am not getting is........are the people who own on tourist complexes different to the ones who own on residential and are the people who rent on touristic complexes different to the ones on residential???
IMHO I think on tourist complexes most bookings are through agents who don't vet who they put in apartments whereas in private residential it tends to be on a more personal and discerning level .
That has been my experience with the varied range of lettings on our complex where we have one individual who advertises 30-odd apartments on internet and other private letters who generally have personal contact .
I am so not getting this!
As I understand it, if you rent an apartment on a residential complex, it will be of a high standard, peaceful with no screaming kids!
However if you rent on a tourist complex it will be of low standard, noisey and full of screaming kids!
Not mine any way! David
The bit I am not getting is........are the people who own on tourist complexes different to the ones who own on residential and are the people who rent on touristic complexes different to the ones on residential???
The majority of privatley owned apartments that i have seen on my complex are of a good standard as mines is, the way the thread was going it looked if you could not rent a nice well equipped apartment direct from the owner on a touristic complex this is not the case you can do on a few touristic complexes by agreement of the licence holder who will clean and look after the apartment and clients ,there are poor residential apartments as well as poor touristic apartments. David
Sundowner
06-08-2011, 16:27
IMHO I think on tourist complexes most bookings are through agents who don't vet who they put in apartments whereas in private residential it tends to be on a more personal and discerning level .
That has been my experience with the varied range of lettings on our complex where we have one individual who advertises 30-odd apartments on internet and other private letters who generally have personal contact .
So basically you get more discerning owners and clients on residential and on tourist complexes you get the riff raff landlords and clients.
Now I know why people are up in arms about this law! It's a no brainer rent a place on a residential complex.
Added after 3 minutes:
The majority of privatley owned apartments that i have seen on my complex are of a good standard as mines is, the way the thread was going it looked if you could not rent a nice well equipped apartment direct from the owner on a touristic complex this is not the case you can do on a few touristic complexes by agreement of the licence holder who will clean and look after the apartment and clients ,there are poor residential apartments as well as poor touristic apartments. David
I wish you had not said that! I am getting confused again...............I am going to lie down now :)
You can get good and bad on both types of complexes, tourist and residential, but in my experience, the residential apartments are of a higher quality in general., i.e. you have all mod cons, en suite, dishwasher, washing machine, your own sun loungers etc. This is not to say you wont get them on a tourist complex, just maybe not as plentiful.(imho). Coming at this subject from both sides ( we have a holiday home that we rent out and also rent accommodation in Tenerife), we tend to have all home comforts in the holiday property because, obviously, we want to feel like its a home away from home. We also have accommodation that we bought as an investment to let out full time, and while we still put good quality furnishings into this, it wouldn't be up to the same standard as our other house.
Oh please nothing can be further from the truth
What exactly can't be further from the truth?
Santiago
06-08-2011, 16:47
Oh please nothing can be further from the truth
With reference to what?
Well the owners i know are not riif raff landlords and take pride there apartments as again i do heres a review off course it coudnt possably b on a touristic complex could it!Well the owners i know are not riif raff landlords and take pride there apartments as again i do heres a review off course it coudnt possably b on a touristic complex could it!
So basically you get more discerning owners and clients on residential and on tourist complexes you get the riff raff landlords and clients.
Recently returned from 3 week holiday at this apartment. We had a great time, the apartment had everything in it you could possibly need, even sky sports for my husband ! It was a very nice thought to have the "Welcome Pack", even Red Wine . The balcony catches the sun from 9am to 5pm at this time of year, which is great. The complex is spotless (as is the apartment). with plenty of shops and restauurants and bars in the areas. Would definatley return again, especially to this apartment.
We booked Davids apartment and had the best holiday ever. The apartment was exactly as David described it "a home from Home", it was spotless and everything you could need was there. We loved having breakfast on the balcony while the kids were still asleep. beds very comfortable and English TV channels to catch up on your favorite soap's and news and sports.
The pool area was really good, the staff clean the whole pool and sun-bed area every morning and keep it in top condition.
plenty of very good bars and restaurants with a short distance. Ten minutes walk to the beach and no hills to climb.
Overall we were very happy and cannot wait to book again with David. Tenerife he we come......
so as i said must be on a residential complex as the above nots available on a touristic complex according to the way the thread was going. David
Now I know why people are up in arms about this law! It's a no brainer rent a place on a residential complex.
No!
Added after 3 minutes:
I wish you had not said that! I am getting confused again...............I am going to lie down now :)
The assumption that because someone rents they're apartment put on a residential complex it must be better than that on a tourist complex is nonsensical. Someone owns both of them, both bought to rent out (regardless of wether they knew if they legally could) so any standard difference between two random selections is going to be down to chance.
The assumption that because someone rents they're apartment put on a residential complex it must be better than that on a tourist complex is nonsensical. Someone owns both of them, both bought to rent out (regardless of wether they knew if they legally could) so any standard difference between two random selections is going to be down to chance.
My experience says different! We'll have to agree to disagree with this one. I think that one thing tourist complexes could do would be to have photos and itineraries of the individual apartments available for people to view before booking. This, certainly in my own case, would put my mind more at ease.
(apologies all for going off thread (again!))
Just thought I would get the 1000 post evening all, well we did get beat 3 - 1 now back on to illegal letting.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.4 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.