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doreen
28-05-2011, 19:52
I believe this thread is an important one to revive ... and hopefully we will not bore the socks off people quite as much as before

It started with an announcement in the papers in December 2010 that 17 new inspectors had been appointed to investigate illegal and hidden holiday lettings. We had reports of several letting agents being inspected, starting in February - some fines have been issued (and are being appealed as far as I know)

Loaded, has written a good background to the letting laws here
http://www.palomabeach.com/letting-law-95-explained.asp

EDIT - more up to date by Loaded
http://www.propertyforsaleintenerife.com/the-1995-letting-law-in-tenerife-and-the-canaries.asp

It came as a shock to many owners of apartments in Residential complexes, that they were not entitled to rent out short term (which is anything below 3 months) as sadly, many had been told by agents that they could easily cover mortgage payments with holiday lettings.

It seems now that independent villas are close to being allowed rent out if duly registered (and inspected?) ... the debate continues as to whether there will be any amnesty for Residential complex letters or whether they will eventually be facing fines.

As I said at the end of my opening post back in December, if you are in the market for an apartment in Tenerife, you really do need to take into account these laws (of 1995 and 1998) which, it seems, are finally being enforced

sunspot
28-05-2011, 20:09
John was summoned to the tourist board in Santa Cruz this week and given our licence to advertise,he was up there for over 2 hours, we now have a pretty plaque to put outside our accommodation ,because we work from home,we were told to put our website back on and to start gradually apply for the licences for the independent villas,we were also encouraged and they were willing to help to start the process of legalising a complex i.e complexes of villas or apartments on the understanding we could get control of 51%.

jogger321
28-05-2011, 22:03
I realise this is a subject that has absolutely no interest to anyone but me, but I thought i'd make a posting anyway.

sunspot
28-05-2011, 22:05
but theres already one thread going jogger

doreen
28-05-2011, 22:05
Hello jogger321 ... I did restart it, but thought the "finally" would have me accused of Schadenfreude .... Mods, a merge please :)

jogger321
28-05-2011, 22:10
No problems.. I was just putting it in the same place with the same title as I thought when people find this forum they will look in the same place?? No worries whatever

Loaded
29-05-2011, 10:50
OMG I've been a mess without this thread!

Loaded
29-05-2011, 10:52
Can I just say that a better more up to date re-cap of the law can be found on my blog site : Tenerife Property Video Blog (http://www.propertyforsaleintenerife.com/the-1995-letting-law-in-tenerife-and-the-canaries.asp)

slodgedad
29-05-2011, 10:55
Hello jogger321 ... I did restart it, but thought the "finally" would have me accused of Schadenfreude .... Mods, a merge please :)

Threads merged

doreen
29-05-2011, 10:59
John was summoned to the tourist board in Santa Cruz this week and given our licence to advertise,he was up there for over 2 hours, we now have a pretty plaque to put outside our accommodation ,because we work from home,we were told to put our website back on and to start gradually apply for the licences for the independent villas,we were also encouraged and they were willing to help to start the process of legalising a complex i.e complexes of villas or apartments on the understanding we could get control of 51%.

Good to hear you are back in business ... did they mention anything about fines for individual owners ?

sunspot
29-05-2011, 11:09
No,there was mention of the owners at all, apart from starting the process to legalise thier villas, our fine was related to advertising on our website,not because the villas were not legal

Loaded
29-05-2011, 11:11
Sunspot, congratulations for getting things going in the right direction for your business, if you don't mind me asking, what is the name of this licence and did it cost anything ? Also did you apply for it at Polica Turistica in the Cabildo Insular at Plaza De España?

Thanks

Loaded
29-05-2011, 11:12
I'm guessing it's a lisitng in the REAT and that the number in your signature is your REAT number?=

sunspot
29-05-2011, 11:17
Sunspot, congratulations for getting things going in the right direction for your business, if you don't mind me asking, what is the name of this licence and did it cost anything ? Also did you apply for it at Polica Turistica in the Cabildo Insular at Plaza De España?

Thanks

The Lawyer applied for it in January at the above and i trusted him with my signed pieces of paper,because of my lack of spanish, i must add that the tourist board were really helpfull and told us they have no intentions of closing down indepentdent villas

Loaded
29-05-2011, 11:22
I've always found them helpful myself too. Villas can and always have been able to register if they are not part of a community and if they are part of a community they'd need at least 50%+1 to register a community of villas with one agent.

(I realise you know that but I thought I'd put it in for the casual readers!!! - we don't want someone saying "oh so all villas can now be registered? What next? Residential apartments! The times are changing....")

Hughsyb
30-05-2011, 15:21
Villas can and always have been able to register if they are not part of a community and if they are part of a community they'd need at least 50%+1 to register a community of villas with one agent.

????

Residential villas are part of a community but they can't register, either individually or with an agent?

Loaded
30-05-2011, 15:32
????

Residential villas are part of a community but they can't register, either individually or with an agent?

LEts not tag them as residential or otherwise intitially:

A VILLA that is part of a community of owners (lets say 20 villas) cannot be registered with the tourist board unless they persuade 50%+1 of the other villas to register with them.

A VILLA that is not part of a community of other villas can register with the tourist board at any time.

Loaded
30-05-2011, 15:36
same goes for apartments, only difference is you're unlikely to ever find an apartment that doesn't belong to a community of other apartments

doreen
30-05-2011, 15:38
LEts not tag them as residential or otherwise intitially:

A VILLA that is part of a community of owners (lets say 20 villas) cannot be registered with the tourist board unless they persuade 50%+1 of the other villas to register with them.


I wonder what part the Community Statutes will have to play in this ... if written in that holiday lettings are forbidden, does getting the magic 50% plus one override that - needs more than 51% to change the Statutes :confused:

Hughsyb
30-05-2011, 15:39
So the law has been changed?

I understood that the law clearly stated the 50%+1 of owners applied to properties designated as touristic?

KirstyJay
30-05-2011, 15:52
So the law has been changed?

I understood that the law clearly stated the 50%+1 of owners applied to properties designated as touristic?

Welcome back :D

Loaded
30-05-2011, 15:54
So the law has been changed?

I understood that the law clearly stated the 50%+1 of owners applied to properties designated as touristic?

No the law hasn't changed.

Loaded
30-05-2011, 15:55
where's that brick wall emoticon?

Hughsyb
30-05-2011, 16:03
So the law clearly states the 50%+1 of owners applies to properties designated as residential too?

Loaded
30-05-2011, 16:08
So the law clearly states the 50%+1 of owners applies to properties designated as residential too?

the "residential" tag is defined only the non achievement of the 50%+1 or in newer cases 100%.

Before you tag them as residential they have to have achieved or not achieved the 50%+1 - unless their community statutes prohibit holiday lettings in which case they're residential from the off.

KirstyJay
30-05-2011, 16:08
where's that brick wall emoticon?

I'll find it when I get home... Or send me a link if you do and I'll put it on. :)

Loaded
30-05-2011, 16:23
I'll find it when I get home... Or send me a link if you do and I'll put it on. :)

It's ok, I think I need the real thing lol

9PLUS
30-05-2011, 16:34
warrabout a community of 2 apartments ?


would it be 100%+0 ?


xxx

Loaded
30-05-2011, 16:37
warrabout a community of 2 apartments ?


would it be 100%+0 ?



xxx

Interesting question, I have no idea!

9PLUS
30-05-2011, 16:41
loophole

x

Loaded
30-05-2011, 16:43
I guess they'd have to make a decision one way or the other eh?

Hughsyb
30-05-2011, 18:14
the "residential" tag is defined only the non achievement of the 50%+1 or in newer cases 100%.


So if they achieve 50%+1 or in newer cases 100%, they automatically become touristic and can then apply to the authorities to rent out?

As a matter of interest, how does the law define "newer".

canary boy
30-05-2011, 19:01
I Now know Four residential complexes where private details have been taken by the tourist board, Batten down the hatches

doreen
30-05-2011, 19:03
I Now know Four residential complexes where private details have been taken by the tourist board, Batten down the hatches

Can you name any complexes ... was it via the administrators ... I know Universal have been approached

canary boy
30-05-2011, 19:17
???Obviously I cannot name them but be sure they are coming to a complex near you soon, I dont get any of it , Can you imagine the consequences of prosecuting all those illegal beds????

Loaded
31-05-2011, 10:48
So if they achieve 50%+1 or in newer cases 100%, they automatically become touristic and can then apply to the authorities to rent out?

As a matter of interest, how does the law define "newer".

Spot on hughsey.

The law doesn't define newer etc but it's widely regarded that complexes built after the 95 laws would need 100%. There could be exceptions though.

Loaded
31-05-2011, 10:51
???Obviously I cannot name them but be sure they are coming to a complex near you soon, I dont get any of it , Can you imagine the consequences of prosecuting all those illegal beds????

More tourists pushed into aparthotels, hotels and registered complexes..... More jobs created due to higher demand in those accommodations.... Higher income or the "above board" accommodation sector.... Economic recovery continues

canary boy
31-05-2011, 11:16
All those poor complexes not recieving there community fees, There complex falling in to disrepair, The housing market saturated with a sunami of repossesions and apartment hotels and tourist hotel just cannot compete with privately owned apartments on price or interiors and in apartment facilities tax the illegal beds and make those legal and then the hotels will have to up there game if they want to compete!, The govermnet wasting millions battling court cases,

Loaded
31-05-2011, 13:51
All those poor complexes not recieving there community fees, There complex falling in to disrepair, The housing market saturated with a sunami of repossesions and apartment hotels and tourist hotel just cannot compete with privately owned apartments on price or interiors and in apartment facilities tax the illegal beds and make those legal and then the hotels will have to up there game if they want to compete!, The govermnet wasting millions battling court cases,

It's not about upping your game it's about one type of accommodation having to follow the tourist laws and the private rental sector not even bothering to read them.

tonypub
31-05-2011, 13:54
It's not about upping your game it's about one type of accommodation having to follow the tourist laws and the private rental sector not even bothering to read them.and the tax

canary boy
31-05-2011, 14:03
Tax! Blimey tax on having your mate staying over at your apartment?

Your right Loaded My mate didnt think he needed to read about the laws Im not staying there again,I think I might start going else where to spend my cash!

Loaded
31-05-2011, 16:38
I'm sure the tax plays a part too lol

Loaded
31-05-2011, 16:40
but if it were just for tax they'd just make the apartments on residential sites legal and tax them rather than ostrasicing them

doreen
31-05-2011, 17:53
but if it were just for tax they'd just make the apartments on residential sites legal and tax them rather than ostrasicing them

Was talking with an agent today about another matter and said - are you being affected by the clampdown on lettings ... No, my boss has a lettings licence (good) so it's just up to each individual owner to sort it out with the tax office ... eh, no - you are doing holiday lettings on X,Y and Z complexes which are illegal (X,Y and Z complexes are Residential) ... no, they're not illegal.... yes, they are, they are Residential not Touristic .... well, if enough owners get together ... but they haven't and you would need 100% .... but .... :wall::wall::wall:

Loaded
31-05-2011, 20:16
Lol yeah and all their clients are facebook friends so it's ok!!!

Hughsyb
01-06-2011, 11:43
Originally Posted by Hughsyb

So if they achieve 50%+1 or in newer cases 100%, they automatically become touristic and can then apply to the authorities to rent out?

Spot on hughsey.

I'll take your word for that as you are well versed on the law, although I'm curious as to why you haven't mentioned this before? ???

It's been generally accepted on here that commercial holiday letting of residential properties is not allowed. Now you are saying it is allowed on most developments if everyone on there agrees.

I accept it's a bit meaningless as getting 100% agreement is well nigh impossible in practice.


More tourists pushed into aparthotels, hotels and registered complexes..... More jobs created due to higher demand in those accommodations.... Higher income or the "above board" accommodation sector.... Economic recovery continues

Again, I have to point out that this is a Canarian law. On other islands, there is no similar accommodation if holiday letting is stopped on existing residential properties. So the tourist economy would be devastated there if such action was implemented.

Which is why it isn't going to be.


I Now know Four residential complexes where private details have been taken by the tourist board

Obviously I cannot name them

Why on earth not? Is it top secret?

New forum but still the same old unsubstantiated rumour. After 5 months, no evidence of anything meaningful whatsoever happening on residential properties.

In the meantime, the number of residential properties being holiday letted continues to grow.

Loaded
01-06-2011, 17:44
I've been saying that about the 50%+1 since the dawn of time. Even in this article which I've linked to god knows how many times:

http://www.propertyforsaleintenerife.com/the-1995-letting-law-in-tenerife-and-the-canaries.asp

"So to recap; all tourist activity on a complex or community of apartments or villas etc must be registered to a sole agent who have to have registered with the authorities 100% of the complex or community. This was then dropped to 66% of the total and then dropped again to 50%+1 of the units (this was amended in the modification to the 7/1995 law in 5/1999, see source 4).So to recap; all tourist activity on a complex or community of apartments or villas etc must be registered to a sole agent who have to have registered with the authorities 100% of the complex or community. This was then dropped to 66% of the total and then dropped again to 50%+1 of the units (this was amended in the modification to the 7/1995 law in 5/1999, see source 4)."

atlantico
01-06-2011, 18:35
I've been saying that about the 50%+1 since the dawn of time. Even in this article which I've linked to god knows how many times:

http://www.propertyforsaleintenerife.com/the-1995-letting-law-in-tenerife-and-the-canaries.asp

"So to recap; all tourist activity on a complex or community of apartments or villas etc must be registered to a sole agent who have to have registered with the authorities 100% of the complex or community. This was then dropped to 66% of the total and then dropped again to 50%+1 of the units (this was amended in the modification to the 7/1995 law in 5/1999, see source 4).So to recap; all tourist activity on a complex or community of apartments or villas etc must be registered to a sole agent who have to have registered with the authorities 100% of the complex or community. This was then dropped to 66% of the total and then dropped again to 50%+1 of the units (this was amended in the modification to the 7/1995 law in 5/1999, see source 4)."

but surely ONLY if those complexes were constructed with touristic permission in the first place. A residential complex can not do this as it was only allowed to be built in the first place if it was deemed to be residential ONLY. ie. Residential Atlantico in Silencio CAN NOT and NEVER can be registered as touristic, even if 100% of residents agreed. Its RESIDENTIAL ONLY as per original contruction planning permission/laws

delderek
01-06-2011, 19:15
but surely ONLY if those complexes were constructed with touristic permission in the first place. A residential complex can not do this as it was only allowed to be built in the first place if it was deemed to be residential ONLY. ie. Residential Atlantico in Silencio CAN NOT and NEVER can be registered as touristic, even if 100% of residents agreed. Its RESIDENTIAL ONLY as per original contruction planning permission/laws

And that building moratorium for all Canary islands is still current,and has been renewed every year since it was originally instigated 12 years ago (I think, but open to correction) allowing ONLY the building of RESIDENTIAL accomodation and FIVE star hotels.

Kerig
01-06-2011, 20:49
Hi Can someone advise us in simple terms as to where we stand in relation to this law. We own an independant Villa is Sueno Azul, this is not in a Community. Does this mean we can, and have to, apply for a lettings license. If so how and where do we apply?

We want to be legal, we declare out income and pay taxes on it in England. We believe we give good value for money in our villa, and take pride in offering a comfortable well furnished and very well equiped villa for Clients.

Any advice as to where we stand and what we need to do would be much appreciated.

zumba queen
01-06-2011, 23:54
???Obviously I cannot name them but be sure they are coming to a complex near you soon, I dont get any of it , Can you imagine the consequences of prosecuting all those illegal beds????

El Mirador was visited on the 23/05/11,all names,phone numbers & e-mail addresses were asked for as they were following up some leads.

CIM
02-06-2011, 00:21
El Mirador was visited on the 23/05/11,all names,phone numbers & e-mail addresses were asked for as they were following up some leads.

I think El Mirador is going to be one of the worst hit from all this. It is very expensive on there for what it is and if they clamp down and investigate all the illegal lettings - uh-oh!!!
I had a valuation done on a very similar property last week. Purchase price 160k€ - valuation 100k€! Obviously rental income isnt taken into consideration and whilst the income is substantial and the property will sell at way above valuation, the trouble is with buyers who want mortgages. Valuations are going to tank and they just ain´t going to be able to raise anything like enough money to purchase on there anymore.

jogger321
02-06-2011, 11:07
I remember visiting El Mirador about four years ago when I was looking to purchase. Went back in the afternoon without the estate agent to have a good look around the complex.

Do they still have that large sign outside the office on the wall clearly stating that holiday lettings are illegal?

I remember trying to find out why if the sign was there was it was so widespread on the complex. Apparently the sign had been put there to cover the then president and committees back sides as they were themselves involved in holiday lettings.

Red Devil
02-06-2011, 15:16
El Mirador was visited on the 23/05/11,all names,phone numbers & e-mail addresses were asked for as they were following up some leads.
I Now know Four residential complexes where private details have been taken by the tourist board, Batten down the hatches (Canaryboy)

And of course lots of mischievous rumours could quite easily be started. None of these 2 posters speak from any apparent position of knowledge going by their previous posts in one case and non in the other.
(Sorry, cant highlight 2nd quote for some reason)

junglejim
02-06-2011, 15:50
I remember visiting El Mirador about four years ago when I was looking to purchase. Went back in the afternoon without the estate agent to have a good look around the complex.

Do they still have that large sign outside the office on the wall clearly stating that holiday lettings are illegal?

I remember trying to find out why if the sign was there was it was so widespread on the complex. Apparently the sign had been put there to cover the then president and committees back sides as they were themselves involved in holiday lettings.

Our President organises lets but doesn't advertise / he seems to think that it's only those who advertise on web that will have problems ??

zumba queen
02-06-2011, 17:24
And of course lots of mischievous rumours could quite easily be started. None of these 2 posters speak from any apparent position of knowledge going by their previous posts in one case and non in the other.
(Sorry, cant highlight 2nd quote for some reason)

As an owner on El Mirador i am on their facebook page where one of the committee members posted these facts,so i have a little bit of knowledge.

Loaded
02-06-2011, 18:40
Hi Can someone advise us in simple terms as to where we stand in relation to this law. We own an independant Villa is Sueno Azul, this is not in a Community. Does this mean we can, and have to, apply for a lettings license. If so how and where do we apply?

We want to be legal, we declare out income and pay taxes on it in England. We believe we give good value for money in our villa, and take pride in offering a comfortable well furnished and very well equiped villa for Clients.

Any advice as to where we stand and what we need to do would be much appreciated.

Correct me if I'm wrong but sueno azul is a community

Loaded
02-06-2011, 18:42
Our President organises lets but doesn't advertise / he seems to think that it's only those who advertise on web that will have problems ??

He would be wrong

jogger321
02-06-2011, 18:48
"El Mirador
Yesterday (23/05/2011) El Mirador received a visit from the Tourist Board.
They came in with a warrant and asked to see a file we have of everybody’s details i.e. names, addresses, phone numbers & email addresses.
They then produced the exact file which they had obtained from the Administrators.
They mentioned that they where following up several leads of apartments being on the internet and where going to be in contact with the owners. May we take this opportunity to remind owners that it is forbidden to advertise El Mirador on the internet.
Thank You."

doreen
02-06-2011, 18:52
Well, it looks like they have finished with agents and are moving on to individuals :( .... maybe finally, the likes of hughsby will listen

Hughsyb
03-06-2011, 10:54
Hi Doreen :love:

It's ok, I'm listening, I'm listening!

I listened to you when you said that the holiday letting of residential properties in the Canaries would be more or less stopped by the end of this year, and when you also said in response to my opinion that the authorities had no intention of stopping the holiday letting of all residential properties in the Canaries...........................

"I think you might be eating your words before next Christmas Day."

They'll need to get their skates on otherwise it's words for your Christmas dinner instead of turkey! :hungry:

I'm also listening to you now when you say..............

" it looks like they have finished with agents"

So after 5 months of work clamping down on agents by 17 inspectors - that's approx 11,900 hours! - the number of properties being holiday rented out in the Canaries on the 3 main rental sites has actually risen from 6,973 to 7,461, which includes another 56 properties in the last 3 weeks. And that's only 3 rental sites. There are hundreds more websites.

Wow, I wonder if they'll be so successful with individual owners!

doreen
03-06-2011, 11:05
"I think you might be eating your words before next Christmas Day."

... not my words :)

Hughsyb
03-06-2011, 11:20
If the old forum comes back, I shall prove you wrong. :pray:

doreen
03-06-2011, 12:42
"I think you might be eating your words before next Christmas Day."

... not my words :)

With apologies ... you can still find the old forum cache .... posted last Christmas Day

H: There is no need to lobby Doreen because the banning of holiday lettings in residential areas in the Canary Islands will never happen. I only came on here to explain the reasons why it won't happen to people who quite understandably wouldn't know the wider picture.

D: I think you might be eating your words before next Christmas Day - the implementation will hurt some undoubtedly, but having had more than a decade of free reign, do not expect too much sympathy for (from) those who pay their taxes each year.

... don't think I am saying there "that the holiday letting of residential properties in the Canaries would be more or less stopped by the end of this year ..." more that there will be pain to be felt ... as the fines levied (or attempted to be levied) on agents now proves ... and we await what actions will be taken over cases like El Mirador

Loaded
03-06-2011, 12:45
I doubt they are "finished with agents", more likely their task is multi-dimensioned .

Hughsyb
03-06-2011, 13:03
With apologies ... you can still find the old forum cache .... posted last Christmas Day

H: There is no need to lobby Doreen because the banning of holiday lettings in residential areas in the Canary Islands will never happen. I only came on here to explain the reasons why it won't happen to people who quite understandably wouldn't know the wider picture.

D: I think you might be eating your words before next Christmas Day - the implementation will hurt some undoubtedly, but having had more than a decade of free reign, do not expect too much sympathy for (from) those who pay their taxes each year.

... don't think I am saying there "that the holiday letting of residential properties in the Canaries would be more or less stopped by the end of this year ..." more that there will be pain to be felt ... as the fines levied (or attempted to be levied) on agents now proves ... and we await what actions will be taken over cases like El Mirador

But you did say it and then said you didn't.

I still wouldn't order the stuffing! :)

By the way, how do you access the old site without being redirected?

doreen
03-06-2011, 13:32
But you did say it and then said you didn't.

I still wouldn't order the stuffing! :)

By the way, how do you access the old site without being redirected?

H - my recall is pretty good, but not perfect as I had some 3.000 plus posts to my name in the old forum :)

Cache, dear boy ... google is a wonderful tool when you know how to use it :idea:



EDIT - actually near 4.800 posts - note to self, Get Out More :lol:

Hughsyb
03-06-2011, 14:02
Cache, dear boy ... google is a wonderful tool when you know how to use it :idea:


But I don't. :cry:

Go on, please tell me. :kiss:

delderek
03-06-2011, 14:11
Correct me if I'm wrong but sueno azul is a community

I think you will find that the Villas were, for want of a better term, Divorced from the community a couple of years ago, and with no community fees, everything is now paid directly to Adeje authorities.

doreen
03-06-2011, 14:32
But I don't. :cry:

Go on, please tell me. :kiss:

Well, as you have asked nicely .... :)

.... I put these words into Google Tenerife finally illegal lettings before next Christmas Day ... bit of trial and error - first attempt didn't work as I hadn't specified Tenerife ... you need to click on EN CACHE, that appears after the link, not the actual link itself

Hughsyb
03-06-2011, 14:58
and you answered nicely.

Is this love? :cloud9:

Loaded
03-06-2011, 15:34
personally I doubt it will be over by xmas, this is a huge task and every day a new owner of a residential apartment puts his place on the rental market possibly without realising it's against the law, so they're fighting a continuous battle and it will take years to get the message accross and catch everyone.

Peterrayner
03-06-2011, 16:46
So this is where you are all hiding :O

IMHO its a bit of a presumption to think that they must have now switched their actions against local agencies advertising commercial holiday lets on the internet on residential sites to those private individual owners on residential sites.

It could well be that this is merely follow up action against the agencies by seeking clarification from the actual owners involved.

Owners knowingly using such agencies are clearly in breech of the 1995 Letting Laws but I have written confirmation from our original administrators (the same ones who also administer El MIrador) that it is perfectly legal to allow family and friends to use the apartment and this has also been confirmed to me by Marcos Cabrera on the proviso that the use is reasonably limited and only to people known to me directly without the aid of any form of advertising.

I also agree with Loaded that it is a huge task and it will take some time yet to resolve all the issues involved.

carolethatch
03-06-2011, 17:02
I have seen lots of apartments on El Mirador being advertised on agents sites, perhaps that is why the are being hit.

hailfuzz
03-06-2011, 17:19
I honnestly beleive many of the users of this thread need to look thselves in the mirror, no matter what side of the fence you are on there is far too much posting relating to own opinions and speculitive comments about what "they" want to happen!!!
Surely this thread is about the sharing of information not speculitive opinion?

???????????????????

Loaded
03-06-2011, 17:31
Also why speculate that they have switched their focus away from agents just becuase they've gone to El Mirador? They were at Paloma Beach and Royal Palm investigating the illegal renters back in February and no one considered this a switch in focus then.......

murph
03-06-2011, 22:54
All those poor complexes not recieving there community fees, There complex falling in to disrepair, The housing market saturated with a sunami of repossesions and apartment hotels and tourist hotel just cannot compete with privately owned apartments on price or interiors and in apartment facilities tax the illegal beds and make those legal and then the hotels will have to up there game if they want to compete!, The govermnet wasting millions battling court cases,

Interesting viewpoint!

In your scenario different parts of the tourist industry will lurch into disrepair and depression, before being bailed out by the Government to rise like a Phoenix which then means someone else sinks!

Politics of the Madhouse!

murph
03-06-2011, 22:58
Was talking with an agent today about another matter and said - are you being affected by the clampdown on lettings ... No, my boss has a lettings licence (good) so it's just up to each individual owner to sort it out with the tax office ... eh, no - you are doing holiday lettings on X,Y and Z complexes which are illegal (X,Y and Z complexes are Residential) ... no, they're not illegal.... yes, they are, they are Residential not Touristic .... well, if enough owners get together ... but they haven't and you would need 100% .... but .... :wall::wall::wall:


Good Job someone found the Wall Headbangers...lol

murph
03-06-2011, 23:06
Our President organises lets but doesn't advertise / he seems to think that it's only those who advertise on web that will have problems ??

Ha Ha that's like a three year old hiding under a blanket and thinking we can't see them!

AL JAY
03-06-2011, 23:27
If the site that junglejim has mentioned is the one i think it is, it will certainly have the inspectors scratching their heads because it is part of a hotel group and you can book rooms there through all the usual online sites like Alpharooms/tripadvisor/expedia/travel republic and many many more or go on their own website or just phone reception. I stayed there in Nov and loved it and looked at a few of the privately owned apartments that are also rented out 50 weeks of the year. I think they will have to bring Columbo in to sort out the legalities there!

dnc
04-06-2011, 14:59
I must say, after reading most of the posts on this subject over the last few months that there seems to be a lot of jealousy in Tenerife. Some people on here are desperately wanting someone to get a hefty fine which I think is a dreadfully selfish attitude.
If you can't do something, you don't want anyone else to be able to do it.
What is wrong with someone renting out their lovely apartment to others who would appreciate it?
We have stayed in privately owned residential apartments and would not go any other way.

Angusjim
04-06-2011, 15:08
It's not about upping your game it's about one type of accommodation having to follow the tourist laws and the private rental sector not even bothering to read them.

I seem to remember on the Forum before the problems that you stated that there is no requirement for touristic complexes to have fire alarms or emergency lighting etc to conform with the touristic licence laws ( seems crazy to me ) but that it is against the local council regulations , does that mean that so called "legal" complexes like Paloma Beach are in theory "illegal"? The ramifications of not having basic life saving equipment is a lot more serious than whether the apartments have TV or a microwave ???.

doreen
04-06-2011, 15:20
I must say, after reading most of the posts on this subject over the last few months that there seems to be a lot of jealousy in Tenerife. Some people on here are desperately wanting someone to get a hefty fine which I think is a dreadfully selfish attitude.
If you can't do something, you don't want anyone else to be able to do it.
What is wrong with someone renting out their lovely apartment to others who would appreciate it?
We have stayed in privately owned residential apartments and would not go any other way.

Are we reading the same thread ??? I started the previous thread as a warning to people buying a new apartment, to be aware the laws against renting on Residential Complexes were now being implemented after many years of turning a blind eye ... and have posted that there are still agents selling such apartments saying, yes of course, you can rent out to help pay your mortgage, when the situation is not clear and such people are at risk of fines ... should we not be saying this ???

dnc
04-06-2011, 15:38
Yes Doreen, I am not having a go at you for starting it but some people have jumped in loving the thought of people getting caught.
Why don't the inspectors have a go at the estate agents that are saying anything they can to get a sale.
If someone has been told he can rent out then he is going to do just that.
I still can not see anything wrong with these lettings, if it was up to me the more visitors to Tenerife the better.
We prefer the quieter places of Tenerife without hotels and without tourist complexes so we stay in privately owned apartments. Is there anything wrong with that?

Loaded
05-06-2011, 12:06
I seem to remember on the Forum before the problems that you stated that there is no requirement for touristic complexes to have fire alarms or emergency lighting etc to conform with the touristic licence laws ( seems crazy to me ) but that it is against the local council regulations , does that mean that so called "legal" complexes like Paloma Beach are in theory "illegal"? The ramifications of not having basic life saving equipment is a lot more serious than whether the apartments have TV or a microwave ???.

I'm not sure about other complexes but Paloma Beach has smoke detectors in every apartment and hose reels and fire extinguishers as per the now amended law.

Added after 24 minutes:


Yes Doreen, I am not having a go at you for starting it but some people have jumped in loving the thought of people getting caught.
Why don't the inspectors have a go at the estate agents that are saying anything they can to get a sale.
If someone has been told he can rent out then he is going to do just that.
I still can not see anything wrong with these lettings, if it was up to me the more visitors to Tenerife the better.
We prefer the quieter places of Tenerife without hotels and without tourist complexes so we stay in privately owned apartments. Is there anything wrong with that?

There's nothing wrong with you wanting that at all.

The only problems are:

1. It's unregulated and customers have no come back if they feel they haven't received some aspect of what they've paid for.

2. People who bought property in these quiet residential places bought them for the same reason you want to stay there - and although many clients may be quiet and unassuming, sooner or later they'll be some 18-30's or other rowdy types staying in the apartment and ruining the residents peace and quiet.

3. Since they're un-registered and off the radar most of these property owners don't declare a rental income (18% is the rate), so the canary islands miss out on a large sum in undeclared holiday accommodation income and hotels and other accommodation miss out, ultimately causing loss of income and redundancies.

delderek
05-06-2011, 12:50
With regard to fire alarms etc, I think there may be a "sting in the tail", i,e the tourist authority are no longer enforcing this rule. But my feeling is, that it will be handed over to the local authority to take over this task, which are probably in a much more powerful position to enforce it.

Loaded
05-06-2011, 13:02
exactamundo

Angusjim
05-06-2011, 13:07
I'm not sure about other complexes but Paloma Beach has smoke detectors in every apartment and hose reels and fire extinguishers as per the now amended law.

Added after 24 minutes:



There's nothing wrong with you wanting that at all.

The only problems are:

1. It's unregulated and customers have no come back if they feel they haven't received some aspect of what they've paid for.

2. People who bought property in these quiet residential places bought them for the same reason you want to stay there - and although many clients may be quiet and unassuming, sooner or later they'll be some 18-30's or other rowdy types staying in the apartment and ruining the residents peace and quiet.

3. Since they're un-registered and off the radar most of these property owners don't declare a rental income (18% is the rate), so the canary islands miss out on a large sum in undeclared holiday accommodation income and hotels and other accommodation miss out, ultimately causing loss of income and redundancies.

Don't think a few battery operated smoke detectors qualify as fire detection have you carried out risk assessements & prepared a fire plan for the complex ? It may suit you at the moment that so called "illegal complexes" are being targetted but IMHO next will be the "legal complexes" which will have to spend big money to meet safety requirements.

junglejim
05-06-2011, 13:10
If the site that junglejim has mentioned is the one i think it is, it will certainly have the inspectors scratching their heads because it is part of a hotel group and you can book rooms there through all the usual online sites like Alpharooms/tripadvisor/expedia/travel republic and many many more or go on their own website or just phone reception. I stayed there in Nov and loved it and looked at a few of the privately owned apartments that are also rented out 50 weeks of the year. I think they will have to bring Columbo in to sort out the legalities there!

Hovima Group have not operated out of our complex for nearly 4 years - Konrad sub-letted his apartments to this group but was illegal as he didn't have 50% *+ of apts. - it is now only holiday lets mainly via a couple of names who do not have agency or 50% nor are the vast majority of apartments registered - I doubt if you could book through some of the agencies you mention as majority use either the president or the other advertiser !
If the to principals get together to for a letting agency do they need 100% agreement or just a majority at agm/egm to go ahead ?
We do have an amazing fully booked season in winter though !

AL JAY
05-06-2011, 14:00
With respect JJ i have just tried a mock booking through Hovima for 17th of June and they have availibility for studio's or 1 beds also on Trip Advisor/on the beach/travel republic/alpharooms/expedia etc. I booked through travel republic when i stayed there in Nov and was given a room with a view over the front car park looking towards La Pinta! Maybe Hovima don't get many bookings because it is far cheaper using Travel Republic. Take a gander yourself!!!

Loaded
05-06-2011, 14:13
Don't think a few battery operated smoke detectors qualify as fire detection have you carried out risk assessements & prepared a fire plan for the complex ? It may suit you at the moment that so called "illegal complexes" are being targetted but IMHO next will be the "legal complexes" which will have to spend big money to meet safety requirements.

yes full project planned and all hoses and fire extinguishers in the corridors, emergency exits signposted etc, smoke detectors in apartments are linked to a central alarm system and a re not battery operated.

Added after 2 minutes:

and Angus Jim I think it cost 70000 euros for the complex to install.

Peterrayner
05-06-2011, 17:41
With regard to fire alarms etc, I think there may be a "sting in the tail", i,e the tourist authority are no longer enforcing this rule. But my feeling is, that it will be handed over to the local authority to take over this task, which are probably in a much more powerful position to enforce it.

There could well be problems for all types of complexes. We have just been informed that under current regulations we need to install fire extinguishers on all landings at 15m spacings (well over 100 in total) and with directional signs on our residential complex.

Apparently these should have been in place from day 1. My question in reponse was a) how did we then get our habitacion certificate and b) how have we passed the annual inspection for the past 5 years ?????

PS we already have hose reels in the garages

delderek
05-06-2011, 17:52
There could well be problems for all types of complexes. We have just been informed that under current regulations we need to install fire extinguishers on all landings at 15m spacings (well over 100 in total) and with directional signs on our residential complex.

Apparently these should have been in place from day 1. My question in reponse was a) how did we then get our habitacion certificate and b) how have we passed the annual inspection for the past 5 years ?????

PS we already have hose reels in the garages

The Mayor's brother didn't own a fire extinguisher company then!!!:whistle:

Peterrayner
05-06-2011, 19:09
The Mayor's brother didn't own a fire extinguisher company then!!!:whistle:

Maybe not Del but I think he might have had shares in Gomapser SL.

fonica
06-06-2011, 10:16
Maybe if you had bought a lovely apartment on a quiet RESIDENTIAL complex you wouldn't have been too happy to find the neighbouring apartments let out to tourists who were coming in and out with luggage at all hours,having parties on the balconies and generally enjoying themselves(as you would expect) whilst you were trying to sleep as you had to go to work.Residential complexes are for residents and tourist complexes are for tourists so that both can get the life style that they deserve.Nothing to do with being selfish just wanting the best for two very different needs.

Tom & Sharon
06-06-2011, 10:18
Maybe if you had bought a lovely apartment on a quiet RESIDENTIAL complex you wouldn't have been too happy to find the neighbouring apartments let out to tourists who were coming in and out with luggage at all hours,having parties on the balconies and generally enjoying themselves(as you would expect) whilst you were trying to sleep as you had to go to work.Residential complexes are for residents and tourist complexes are for tourists so that both can get the life style that they deserve.Nothing to do with being selfish just wanting the best two very different needs.

Couldn't have put it better myself

Peterrayner
06-06-2011, 11:14
Residential complexes are for residents

Sorry but I cant agree with that. It is indeed selfish to try to reserve all rights purely for full time residents. Some degree of compromise is needed.

I am not a "resident" but I do own on a residential complex and expect to be allowed to use it for my holidays and for my family and friends as invited guests.

Hughsyb
06-06-2011, 12:10
I must say, after reading most of the posts on this subject over the last few months that there seems to be a lot of jealousy in Tenerife. Some people on here are desperately wanting someone to get a hefty fine which I think is a dreadfully selfish attitude.
If you can't do something, you don't want anyone else to be able to do it.
What is wrong with someone renting out their lovely apartment to others who would appreciate it?
We have stayed in privately owned residential apartments and would not go any other way.

Yes dnc, there are selfish people on here as illustrated in 2 posts above, desperately wanting to get people fined, but you get a wide mix of people on all forums, so you can expect that.

The main problem regarding this discussion is the assumption that the law for residential properties is being implemented. Even now, after nearly 6 months of inactivity, we still get comments such as this above:

"I started the previous thread as a warning to people buying a new apartment, to be aware the laws against renting on Residential Complexes were now being implemented"

Just where is the evidence of this? There is none that I am aware of.

This is Spain! We are all aware I'm sure that you don't believe anything in Spain until it actually happens. Well, nothing has happened yet regarding residential properties except a few reports of information being gathered, information which could easily have been gathered in the first week by 17 people.

There are no reports of any kind of activity on any other Canary Island. No inspector visits, no owners being contacted. It's very much a non event, apart from this forum.

Surely by now some people should be asking the questions I've been doing for the past months. Just what exactly are 17 people doing every day? Why haven't they contacted and fined property owners? They could easily have contacted and fined thousands by now if that was their intention. Why doesn't something which will devastate the economy of the area appear in the local and international media?



There's nothing wrong with you wanting that at all.

The only problems are:

1. It's unregulated and customers have no come back if they feel they haven't received some aspect of what they've paid for.

2. People who bought property in these quiet residential places bought them for the same reason you want to stay there - and although many clients may be quiet and unassuming, sooner or later they'll be some 18-30's or other rowdy types staying in the apartment and ruining the residents peace and quiet.

3. Since they're un-registered and off the radar most of these property owners don't declare a rental income (18% is the rate), so the canary islands miss out on a large sum in undeclared holiday accommodation income and hotels and other accommodation miss out, ultimately causing loss of income and redundancies.

1. So you regulate it.

2. If anyone bought a property in South Tenerife, one of the busiest holiday destinations in Europe, and didn't expect there to be people having holidays in their complex, then they are either very naive or very stupid. If they didn't find out that the law wasn't being implemented, that's their fault.

3. So you regulate it.


personally I doubt it will be over by xmas, this is a huge task and every day a new owner of a residential apartment puts his place on the rental market possibly without realising it's against the law, so they're fighting a continuous battle and it will take years to get the message accross and catch everyone.
It's not a huge task. It's an impossible one under the existing legislation. The law remains untested and undoubtedly would be challenged if tried to be implemented. The situation has gone beyond implementing the current law. You must look beyond Tenerife and understand what implementing the existing law would mean to other islands where a huge part of the tourist economy is based on irreplaceable superior self catering accommodation. As today's holidaymaker becomes more and more discerning, this is what they are wanting.

As we all know, a change in the law takes time. We'll just have to wait for it.

Loaded
06-06-2011, 12:22
How can it be selfish to buy on a residential complex and then complain that there are non residents making a racket?

Surely it's more selfish of someone to buy on a residential complex and rent it to holidaymakers when they could just have bought on a holiday complex??????????????????????????????????

Added after 10 minutes:


1. So you regulate it.

2. If anyone bought a property in South Tenerife, one of the busiest holiday destinations in Europe, and didn't expect there to be people having holidays in their complex, then they are either very naive or very stupid. If they didn't find out that the law wasn't being implemented, that's their fault.

3. So you regulate it.

Agree that points 1 and 3 could just be regulated.

point 2 however is a bit hypocritical.

"If anyone bought a property in South Tenerife, one of the busiest holiday destinations in Europe, and didn't expect there to be people having holidays in their complex, then they are either very naive or very stupid. If they didn't find out that the law wasn't being implemented, that's their fault."

If I posted that same comment but reversed it to this: "If anyone bought a property in South Tenerife, one of the busiest holiday destinations in Europe, and didn't realise there were laws stopping them from renting to tourists on residential complexes, then they are either very naive or very stupid. If they didn't find out that there was a law against it , that's their fault."

I'm sure I'd have been strung up.

IF people buy on a complex that is a mix of residents and tourists, when they complain about the tourists the common response is "go and live on a residential complex if you can't live with the holiday makers" - but even that's impossible because of the attitude of you post, which basically says - "no matter where you live in Tenerife, even if it's built as residential and the law says no tourists - you still have to put up with the very thing you bought the place to get away from".

Fantastic!

Tom & Sharon
06-06-2011, 12:52
Sorry but I cant agree with that. It is indeed slefish to try to reserve all rights purely for full time residents. Some degree of compromise is needed.

I am not a "resident" but I do own on a residential complex and expect to be allowed to use it for my holidays and for my family and friends as invited guests.

Family and friends is fine,owning on a residencial complex and commercially renting out to every Tom,richard and Harry week in and week out isn't :censored:

Hughsyb
PM me your address in the UK and i'll buy the house next door to you and rent it out to every Tom,Richard and Harry whilst sitting back with my feet up in Tenerife watching the money come rolling in and see if you like it.
I bought on a RESIDENTIAL complex for peace and quiet,if i wanted to party i'd have bought on a TOURISTIC complex.

fonica
06-06-2011, 12:52
I wasn't suggesting that you shouldn't be allowed to have your family staying in your apartment only that when you buy on a residential complex you do so with the understanding that the properties are not let out to tourists.I live on a residential complex and my neighbours have thier family and friends to stay but they are aware that most of the people who live there are working don't want to be disturbed at all hours.In fact the communidad would take action if there were problems of noise etc.Tourists want to have fun they don't want to have to worry about keeping quiet and being good neighbours. I would suggest that your attitude is selfish as you are suggesting that people who have bought in good faith on residential complexes should have their needs and wishes ignored so that people who don't live full time on the complex can break the rules that they were aware of when they bought their properties.

Added after 7 minutes:

I don't want to get people fines, I just want to live in relative peace on my residential complex without commercial renting causing problems for residents.It is two sided and I am equally concern for poor holiday makers who fine themselves the butt of angry residents when they thought they had booked a holiday apartment.The only winners in this are greedy owners who sit back and take the rental money, usally in their own country without paying tax in Spain and without making sure that the apartments comply to safety regulations.Rest assured there are many multas being paid at this very moment and the only reason you would suspect that the law is not being enforced is lack of information on you part!!

Peterrayner
06-06-2011, 13:08
I wasn't suggesting that you shouldn't be allowed to have your family staying in your apartment only that when you buy on a residential complex you do so with the understanding that the properties are not let out to tourists.I live on a residential complex and my neighbours have thier family and friends to stay but they are aware that most of the people who live there are working don't want to be disturbed at all hours.In fact the communidad would take action if there were problems of noise etc.Tourists want to have fun they don't want to have to worry about keeping quiet and being good neighbours. I would suggest that your attitude is selfish as you are suggesting that people who have bought in good faith on residential complexes should have their needs and wishes ignored so that people who don't live full time on the complex can break the rules that they were aware of when they bought their properties.

Added after 7 minutes:

I don't want to get people fines, I just want to live in relative peace on my residential complex without commercial renting causing problems for residents.It is two sided and I am equally concern for poor holiday makers who fine themselves the butt of angry residents when they thought they had booked a holiday apartment.The only winners in this are greedy owners who sit back and take the rental money, usally in their own country without paying tax in Spain and without making sure that the apartments comply to safety regulations.Rest assured there are many multas being paid at this very moment and the only reason you would suspect that the law is not being enforced is lack of information on you part!!

Thats fine and all agreeable but thats not what you posted previously.

The implications of your first post was that only full time residents had any business being on a residential complex which is not only selfish but totally unacceptable.

I agree that full commercial use and by that I generally mean using local agencies to advertise and obtain lettings, isnt fair to the full time residents but we are in danger here of throwning the baby out with the bath water.

Most of south Tenerife below the auotpista from the airport to Las Galletas is a busy full time tourist area and to expect to live there as a resident and not see or hear holidaymakers (which includes many non resident owners) is both niave and selfish IMHO.

Hughsyb
06-06-2011, 13:18
"no matter where you live in Tenerife, even if it's built as residential and the law says no tourists - you still have to put up with the very thing you bought the place to get away from".



I'm afraid so. That's the reality of the situation. Anything else is pie in the sky. Unless in the likes of a rural property.



I bought on a RESIDENTIAL complex for peace and quiet

Then I'm sorry, but you are either naive or stupid. That is not the reality of the situation and never will be.

Incidently, in the many weeks I've spent in my own villa, the worst experience I've had with noisy people was when the next door neighbours' family came to stay. A few sharp words and that was the end of that.

fonica
06-06-2011, 13:18
Residents or non residents who buy on tourist complexes expect noise from tourists.Residents and non residents who buy on residential complexes do not expect to fine tourists making noise outside of normal hours
(8-23 hrs).It isn't either selfish or naive to expect people to comply with reasonable rules set by communities.The problem with many Brits is that they are not used to living in apartments which are part of communities and they still think that they should be able to do as they please regardless of everybody else.If you bought in an apartment block in Torquay or Bournmouth etc.,there would be rules about renting depending on the designed usage of the building and believe me they would be enforced by residents if you tried to break them.

doreen
06-06-2011, 13:22
I agree that full commercial use and by that I generally mean using local agencies to advertise and obtain lettings, isnt fair to the full time residents but we are in danger here of throwing the baby out with the bath water.


"Commercial" is taking money for providing a service, nothing more, nothing less .. and I believe certain Residential complexes now have signs saying Commercial Holiday Lettings are illegal :rolleyes:

Tom & Sharon
06-06-2011, 13:43
Then I'm sorry, but you are either naive or stupid. That is not the reality of the situation and never will be.

Incidently, in the many weeks I've spent in my own villa, the worst experience I've had with noisy people was when the next door neighbours' family came to stay. A few sharp words and that was the end of that.[/QUOTE]

Aren't you the lucky one then:mad:

Believe me the naive one's in our complex are the one's who believed the bull spouted by the 'award winning estate agents' when selling them their apartment.
I knew commercial renting was illegal on a RESIDENTIAL complex,so how come the rest didn't?????
On our RESIDENTIAL complex we have only one SELFISH,GREEDY individual who is still commercially renting out,so its hardly a major issue.

Peterrayner
06-06-2011, 13:53
"Commercial" is taking money for providing a service, nothing more, nothing less .. and I believe certain Residential complexes now have signs saying Commercial Holiday Lettings are illegal :rolleyes:

Yes your right D isnt that what I said ???? MY family and friends dont pay for a service nor do I provide any. They all understand there is no recepetion, meals or room services provided etc. but sometimes but not always they do insist on helping out with the expenses.

Our complex has had these signs for more than 2 years now and having agreed with that condition I ceased any "commercial" activity then.

Oh I tell a lie I helped a local friend out last year and let some of his friends use it...and regretted it ....never again.

I think I have had about 6 weeks use myself so far this year and another 3 weeks have had friends staying I dont consider that unreasonable or in any way commercial.

dnc
06-06-2011, 14:56
If I wanted to live in Tenerife and did not want to mingle with holiday makers there is no way I would purchase an apartment in any complex in the South of Tenerife. As has been said it is well known as a holiday destination.
Surely people are aware of this before they buy. Or do some people love the holiday life and then decide to buy an apartment to live where they have enjoyed these holidays and then decide they have made a huge mistake and it is then too late to do anything about it.

sleepy
06-06-2011, 15:47
Or do some people love the holiday life and then decide to buy an apartment to live where they have enjoyed these holidays and then decide they have made a huge mistake and it is then too late to do anything about it.

Yes!!
Had we all known what was to happen eleven years on with changing laws, rules, regulations and the latest crisis,things would have been different.Hindsight is a wonderful thing. :wall:

cainaries
06-06-2011, 19:39
I don't know that it is correct to say nothing is happening on any other Canary Island. Here on La Palma there is definitely activity but the situation is so different from that on Tenerife (and incredibly complicated) that I couldn't see any point in writing about it on this thread. Each municipality here is handling things in its own way and all differently so no rules are being applied across the board. What I have heard but I must stress that this is only rumour is that licences will only be given to illegal renters who can prove that they have been letting illegally for five or more years (!) and that licences are not being given to new applicants. So if there were new villa owners (as I saw on the old thread) here they have no chance of getting a licence. Additionally, anyone applying has to start by applying for change of use from a vivienda to a tourist rental establishment - official estimated time for this process is two years!!

Dave-Durham
06-06-2011, 20:19
Excuse my ignorance, but out of curiosity which complexes are residential in the El Mirador area or are they all available for lettings?
I've stayed in the area dozens of times and currently rent the same apartment from the owner as and when we want it (availability permitting)

pollye
06-06-2011, 20:53
Ok time to put me whore in, I mean oar in! :poke:
I own on a residential complex. I bought it for our eventual retirement but like everyone else there are bills to pay. Luckily I don't have a mortgage so can pick my guests (sort of, as much as I can) but I can't afford to not rent out to holiday makers. Long term rental up till now is not an option as we use the place ourselves. I am not being greedy. I pay tax in Spain based on long term rental. I am quite happy to pay tax on my holiday rentals but the current law on holiday lettings prevent me from doing that. I make it clear in my advert that it is a quiet residential complex so that it puts off the clubbers etc & the president is aware of rentals.
To me by providing good quality accomodation in Tenerife & freedom of choice makes Tenerife an excellent place to visit especially in this current climate. Tourists are the back bone of this place lets face it. How many of residents rely on the tourists for a living?
As for noisy renters I have had experience of noise on our complex several times when I have stayed there. Not from other holiday renters but from long term renters/residents 1) coming in p**sed as parrots at 3-4am after work. 2) Having a domestic & 3) A young lad 'giving it large' to some poor girl on the balcony opposite at 5am. I was going to shout at them but he obviously had 'brewers stiffy' as he had been going for some time. The poor lass look knackered so I didn't want to stop him as he would have had to start all over again & I couldn't bring myself to do it to her. :eyebrows:
I went back inside my apartment to wake the OH up for a 'bit' but gave up when he snored, turned over & farted. That probably woke the neighbours up!
I don't want to rent my apartment out really cos I love it, but needs must & I do my best to be selective. I was going to buy on a legal complex where the manager had the 51% but I worked it out that he took nearly 60% of the booking fee one way & another so where was the incentive in that?
We are going to possibly put it on a long term rental next year as we have other things planned & doing the holiday renting i.e answering emails, enquiries, getting money is a lot of hard work.
To Sharon & Tom. I obviously know your complex cos I nearly bought on it. I loved it on there but I was quite clearly told by various estate agents that the president didn't mind holiday rentals (as he did them himself) & that it had good holiday rental potential for the golfing holiday maker.
I honestly think this is an attempt by the hacienda to claw back all the black money that floats around Tenerife because times are hard. However if they do this wrong it could actually cause more financial hardship. It will all have a knock on effect.:pray:

Loaded
06-06-2011, 22:23
To me by providing good quality accomodation in Tenerife & freedom of choice makes Tenerife an excellent place to visit especially in this current climate. Tourists are the back bone of this place lets face it. How many of residents rely on the tourists for a living

And how many hotels and other licenced accommodation rely on them too?

fonica
06-06-2011, 22:29
What part of Residential complex don't you understand.The law has been in effect for many years and is now been enforced so that people who want to live in Tenerife South and who work here can do so in relative peace without being selfish or egoistical.There will be plenty of legalised complexes once they have got their acts into gear and complied with regulations required to offer a service to tourists.Some owners who have rented out for years haven't even been over to see the state of their property and the poor people turn up to spend their holiday in a dirty cockroach palace.There has been massive disinterest in past years in providing a quality service to tourists in the cheaper end of the market and many owners on old complexes have got away with offering disgusting and dangerous accomodation.Hopefully this will now end and in the future there will be a minimum standard of both safety and quality.Ask the people who rent out legally and who offer a superb service and who post on the forum,they wil tell you some horror stories.

sleepy
06-06-2011, 22:43
I honestly think this is an attempt by the hacienda to claw back all the black money that floats around Tenerife because times are hard. However if they do this wrong it could actually cause more financial hardship. It will all have a knock on effect.:pray:

Quite possibly.
I remember all this kicking off some years ago when hotels were complaining about lack of trade.It was them that ganged up and put pressure on the authorities to get them to stop all the private holiday letting.

CIM
06-06-2011, 22:45
Even though so many of them provider a shambolic service and have atrocious reviews...

Peterrayner
06-06-2011, 22:57
Even though so many of them provider a shambolic service and have atrocious reviews...

I take it you mean the so called legal accommodation.

I was going to post this in response to fonicas post as there are always 2 sides to every issue.

I dont like to post anything I wouldnt say directly to someone face to face, for all I know we may be neighbours, but the views similar to those expressed are very simplistic and littered with huge generalisations in my opinion.

I agree its all down to revenues for the local authorities. For years they have been able to sit back and let the income from sales tax and plus valias etc roll in but now thats dried up and so they are looking to other streams.

It would seem that this means enforcing an outdated and probably unconstitutional law which they have seen fit to ignore for the last 15 years and which is likely to have a huge detrimental effect on the long term future of the island IMHO.

CIM
06-06-2011, 23:01
Hotels in general and quite a few touristic complexes - no place in particular though . My other half worked in a hotel for a while and was embarrassed by some of the answers she had to give people. The management there simply didn't give a toss so long as the money kept rolling in...

Peterrayner
06-06-2011, 23:12
Hotels in general and quite a few touristic complexes - no place in particular though . My other half worked in a hotel for a while and was embarrassed by some of the answers she had to give people. The management there simply didn't give a toss so long as the money kept rolling in...

I must say I have to totally agree I disliked the "legal" choices on offer so much we bought our own place which you have been in and gave me some excellent free advice. :)

Loaded
06-06-2011, 23:16
There's always going to be some places that don't do things right , that's not an argument for unlicenced accommodation to continue - it's an argument for tighter regulation and more frequent inspections.

If licenced accommodation treat people badly at least the customer has some come back by either writing complaints forms (prompting an inspection) or by writing negative reviews on the place which will damage their reputation and lose them revenue.

Hughsyb
06-06-2011, 23:35
Ok time to put me whore in, I mean oar in! :poke:
I own on a residential complex. I bought it for our eventual retirement but like everyone else there are bills to pay. Luckily I don't have a mortgage so can pick my guests (sort of, as much as I can) but I can't afford to not rent out to holiday makers. Long term rental up till now is not an option as we use the place ourselves. I am not being greedy. I pay tax in Spain based on long term rental. I am quite happy to pay tax on my holiday rentals but the current law on holiday lettings prevent me from doing that. I make it clear in my advert that it is a quiet residential complex so that it puts off the clubbers etc & the president is aware of rentals.
To me by providing good quality accomodation in Tenerife & freedom of choice makes Tenerife an excellent place to visit especially in this current climate. Tourists are the back bone of this place lets face it. How many of residents rely on the tourists for a living?
As for noisy renters I have had experience of noise on our complex several times when I have stayed there. Not from other holiday renters but from long term renters/residents 1) coming in p**sed as parrots at 3-4am after work. 2) Having a domestic & 3) A young lad 'giving it large' to some poor girl on the balcony opposite at 5am. I was going to shout at them but he obviously had 'brewers stiffy' as he had been going for some time. The poor lass look knackered so I didn't want to stop him as he would have had to start all over again & I couldn't bring myself to do it to her. :eyebrows:
I went back inside my apartment to wake the OH up for a 'bit' but gave up when he snored, turned over & farted. That probably woke the neighbours up!
I don't want to rent my apartment out really cos I love it, but needs must & I do my best to be selective. I was going to buy on a legal complex where the manager had the 51% but I worked it out that he took nearly 60% of the booking fee one way & another so where was the incentive in that?
We are going to possibly put it on a long term rental next year as we have other things planned & doing the holiday renting i.e answering emails, enquiries, getting money is a lot of hard work.
To Sharon & Tom. I obviously know your complex cos I nearly bought on it. I loved it on there but I was quite clearly told by various estate agents that the president didn't mind holiday rentals (as he did them himself) & that it had good holiday rental potential for the golfing holiday maker.
I honestly think this is an attempt by the hacienda to claw back all the black money that floats around Tenerife because times are hard. However if they do this wrong it could actually cause more financial hardship. It will all have a knock on effect.:pray:

What a great and realistic post.

Unfortunately Pollye, you'll find realism doesn't go down to well on here. Like every one else, you will be stereotyped.

So as an owner who rents out, you are like me, selfish and greedy. However, as an owner, you'll be pleased to know you don't make any noise. Either do your friends and family who come to stay.

Residents don't make any noise either.

The only people who make any noise are.............holidaymakers!

Nobody has ever told me though how a noisy holidaymaker suddenly changes to a quiet owner, a quiet resident, a quiet friend, and a quiet family group as soon as a property is bought? ???

Do they have to go on a course and pass an exam to get a certificate to say they have changed their ways?

Tom & Sharon
07-06-2011, 08:55
What a great and realistic post.

Unfortunately Pollye, you'll find realism doesn't go down to well on here. Like every one else, you will be stereotyped.

So as an owner who rents out, you are like me, selfish and greedy. However, as an owner, you'll be pleased to know you don't make any noise. Either do your friends and family who come to stay.

Residents don't make any noise either.

The only people who make any noise are.............holidaymakers!

Nobody has ever told me though how a noisy holidaymaker suddenly changes to a quiet owner, a quiet resident, a quiet friend, and a quiet family group as soon as a property is bought? ???

Do they have to go on a course and pass an exam to get a certificate to say they have changed their ways?

Owners who illegally rent out on RESIDENCIAL complexes always carefully 'Select' ?????????? their guests,and always claim surprise when told that actually 6 ***** adults and 3 screaming ***** kids are in their apartment when emailed by disgruntled neighbours.
'Oh there should only be 2 couples there i'll give them a call and chastise them for being complete pikeys they say' Of course in reality nothing changes and we have to put up with said pikeys for 2 weeks.:wall:

I can only speak of our complex,where neighbours treat each other with respect and don't party until the early hours every night and make constant noise because we have to LIVE with each other.

In reality owners who ILLEGALLY commercially rent out to holidaymakers on RESIDENTIAL complexes don't give a frig for their neighbours peace and quiet
and which ever way you try to dress it up YOU ARE CARRYING OUT AN ILLEGAL ACTIVITY in the eyes of the Spanish Tourist and Tax Authorities.

I don't wish to see people fined,i just seek to stop this practise,as per previous posts,the one SELFISH,GREEDY individual on our complex may soon wish his greed hadn't clouded his judgement.

Hughsyb
07-06-2011, 09:27
In reality owners who ILLEGALLY commercially rent out to holidaymakers on RESIDENTIAL complexes don't give a frig for their neighbours peace and quiet

As I said Pollye, you will be stereotyped on here.

Prejudice at its worst.

Loaded
07-06-2011, 09:35
Unfortunately for every saintly owner who hand picks their guests after a personal interview there's thousands who will just take anything.

Most holiday makers are respectable and considerate to their neighbours, I should know because I live on a holiday complex . However there are the occassional idiots who are shouting along to music at 4am in the apartment underneath or to either side who are obviously pr*cks.

I chose to live here though so I put up with it, and since it's me that brings them here I can only blame myself !

9PLUS
07-06-2011, 10:14
I guess the ideal situation would be to of built all accommodation within a purpose build tourist destination - Touristic

and outside of those tourist areas solely residential, One classification per area but thats not the case at the moment.

but Imagine all those residents not using the facilities within a tourist bed only area......blimey

I can not agree with holiday rentals in a residential complex and neither does the Law no matter how someone fluffs up their reasoning.

It's not just paying a little less it's paying nothing in monthly.

I wonder how it would be now if property hadn't been under declared and if all complexes were touristic in L.A.

Maybe the island would be that much better now...??

Margaretta
07-06-2011, 10:18
[QUOTE=Hughsyb;8536]

Residents don't make any noise either.

The only people who make any noise are.............holidaymakers!

Well, residents, holiday-makers, long and short-term renters, swallows and holidaying owners; you can't brand any of these as generally noisy: PEOPLE are quiet or noisy or have sporadic behaviour engendering noise. It depends on the emotions and self-control of the PEOPLE themselves!:eyebrows: Also an evening of alcohol certainly makes the quietest mouse vociferous.:lol:

We have Spanish people (residents) on either side whom we really like. They are working by day and come to life at night with strong garlic cooking, stilettos on tiles clicking forward and back, cleaning and vacuuming, moving furniture, the children stay up late, alcohol Friday and Saturday nights, impassioned shouting at the TV, especially football!, loud music, arguments, laughter, singing in the bath and children shouting. It's all normal behaviour but when you live in a detached place in the UK you realise that you have to get used to living in a close community when purchasing an apartment.
We can be a bit noisy too but try to be considerate. The Spanish neighbours do not anger us but the owners of the apartment below seem to be alcoholics, come in at 1:00 or 2:00a.m. and have huge drunken, violent rows. We shall call the police next time but fortunately they are rarely there.Their guests on the other hand tend to be large families who, although noisy by the pool, have been quiet, considerate and thoughtful in the apartment below.

Only carpeting tiles and cavity wall insulation...things which will never happen in Tenerife....will solve the problem.

junglejim
07-06-2011, 11:07
With respect JJ i have just tried a mock booking through Hovima for 17th of June and they have availibility for studio's or 1 beds also on Trip Advisor/on the beach/travel republic/alpharooms/expedia etc. I booked through travel republic when i stayed there in Nov and was given a room with a view over the front car park looking towards La Pinta! Maybe Hovima don't get many bookings because it is far cheaper using Travel Republic. Take a gander yourself!!!

It's not my complex , I stay in LG at top of hill / we have no Hovima or hotel input any more only private lettings on what is still classed as a touristic complex with no management company .
Haven't been on much lately so sorry for delayed reply .

Peterrayner
07-06-2011, 11:29
I guess the ideal situation would be to of built all accommodation within a purpose build tourist destination - Touristic

and outside of those tourist areas solely residential, One classification per area but thats not the case at the moment.

I did run that very idea by a local property consultant who also spoke to a lawyer at the Tourismo and she was advised that its not possible under current statues and would need a major overall of the legal position.

dnc
07-06-2011, 11:44
Tom or Sharon.
Sorry but I have to say what a dreadful post!
Just because you are an angry resident does not give you the right to make such a bigoted post.
I have stayed on a complex with travellers and found them to be really friendly and considerate.

I can't believe what I have just read.

Tom & Sharon
07-06-2011, 12:08
As I said Pollye, you will be stereotyped on here.

Prejudice at its worst.

Errrrr,did not realise that owners who ILLEGALLY commercially rent out on RESIDENTIAL complexes came under the heading of a racial or religous group ??????
I can assure you that i have formed my opinion based on knowledge,thought,reason and experience.

If you mean someone who gives ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the island by this means of ILLEGALLY renting out,but happily prefers to squirrel all the money back to a UK bank account at the expense of their neighbours peace and quiet then yes I'll stereotype you!!!

Pollye

I think you may have mistaken which complex we live on,as the president certainly does not condone ILLEGAL commercial lettings,we have signs prominently displayed stating this position.
Sharon is also Vice President of the community and there is no way we as a new community do or will condone ILLEGAL commercial lettings.

fonica
07-06-2011, 12:28
I think it may be you that is making them angry!!!

Think it may be you dnc who is making them angry!!!!

dnc
07-06-2011, 12:33
Why??
What have I said to make them angry?

Angusjim
07-06-2011, 12:53
There will be many many residentail complexes like the one I used to own on where residents / long lets / holiday lets live well together and there were no major issues, biggest noise problem I encountered was late night workers returning and clumping around for an hour or two before going to bed and our obvioulsy deaf Cannarian neighbours who had to shout at each other constantly, with the TV blaring in the background till early morning. As for paying money into the system perhaps tax authorities in Tenerife would be better chasing the Canarian people as they seem to think paying tax is optional, even my Canarian accountant recently has asked if I could pay him in cash " to save on tax "

sleepy
07-06-2011, 13:00
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this in previous postings but it is also illegal to rent out apartments as holiday accommodation situated on touristic complexes unless it's done through the sole letting agency.I wonder if inspectors will be looking into this also.

Loaded
07-06-2011, 13:37
they will / are sleepy-

Angusjim
07-06-2011, 13:52
they will / are sleepy-

Some complexes sooner than others :whistle::typing:

Peterrayner
07-06-2011, 13:58
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this in previous postings but it is also illegal to rent out apartments as holiday accommodation situated on touristic complexes unless it's done through the sole letting agency.I wonder if inspectors will be looking into this also.

Up to press it is what they have been concentrating on first because in this case the law is supposed to be crystal clear in that on a touristic site built after 1995 to rent/advertise commercially a) there must first be a sole agency in place and b) all commercial holiday letting activity must be registered both with the sole agent and the Tourismo.

Without a legal sole agency in place then technically all commercial short letting activity is prohibited but owners have so far been allowed family and friends use but it would appear they must not advertise commercially for short lettings with outside local agencies or on the internet. Those who are registered are allowed also to have separate internet adverts.

except of course on touristic sites which predate the 19956 law where there seems to be allowed multiple agencies with which owners can register and rent short lets commercially or they have the same family and friends use without advertising.

With me so far :) and this is the relatively simple situation to resolve.

As to the situation on residential sites well in my view this is a whole different ball game and might yet prove impossible to resolve. It will be very interesting to say the least to hear of any outcome from the denuncia on Tom & Sharons complex.

Tom & Sharon
07-06-2011, 14:05
As to the situation on residential sites well in my view this is a whole differnt ball game and might yet prove impossible to resolve. it wi;; ne interesting to say the least to hear of any outcame form the denuncia on Tom & Sharons complex.[/QUOTE]

The denuncia has been served and we will keep the forum informed of the outcome.

Peterrayner
07-06-2011, 14:14
The denuncia has been served and we will keep the forum informed of the outcome.

This is where it gets interesting.

When you say it has been served do you mean the person being denounced as accepted the denuncia and signed for it or alternatively has it been sent by official bureau fax to the correct registered address because until that is done it hasnt been served legally.

and it better be correct in every fine detail and in full correct Spanish as well or it might well be deemed invalid when it finally gets to court and then you might go back to the end of the queue.

It took us at least 3 attempts to get one served correctly on an owner and that was using the community lawyer.

Having said all that then under the current regime they may well fast track such a denuncia to the top of the lists.


even my Canarian accountant recently has asked if I could pay him in cash " to save on tax "

Mine, who I have known personally for 7 years, has asked if she can use the apartment this summer with her immediate family from Holland. :)

doreen
07-06-2011, 14:22
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this in previous postings but it is also illegal to rent out apartments as holiday accommodation situated on touristic complexes unless it's done through the sole letting agency.I wonder if inspectors will be looking into this also.

I'm really glad you asked, sleepy ... for it sent me off looking at the cache of the old forum, remembering something about some bungalows where inspectors had called (was it Atlantis?)... I didn't find it, but did stumble across a Fuertaventura forum discussing - you've guessed it, Illegal Lettings ... see Hughsby, it's not just us :)

... and they were linking to Loaded's article, and quoting sunspot's comments on her fine and dealings with Turismo ... and there is this post by fifi in April:

The plan is that every single Tourist accommodation room will be on the one website which has already been made by the Governnment. Agueda Montelongo (PP politician) was discussing it on Facebook. I will try and find the article. Once they have finished their investigations and fined whoever they see fit to fine, my guess is that the Lanzarote Island plan to investigate the possibility of registering/licencing/regulating property again will probably be copied by all the Islands if they can find a way of doing it. I havent read the Fuerteventura Island plan yet, it may have already have been discussed. There will be a huge data base of properties if it works out according to their plan, all regulated, and all paying taxes and bookable on their website.

I have no idea if that is just conjecture or some inside information :) And sadly, that forum seems to be experiencing problems as I could only see it in cache, not live

Tom & Sharon
07-06-2011, 14:33
This is where it gets interesting.

When you say it has been served do you mean the person being denounced as accepted the denuncia and signed for it or alternatively has it been sent by official bureau fax to the correct registered address because until that is done it hasnt been served legally.

and it better be correct in every fine detail and in full correct Spanish as well or it might well be deemed invalid when it finally gets to court and then you back to the end of the queue.

It took us at least 3 attempts to get one served correctly on an owner and that was using the community lawyer.

Having said all that then under the current regime they may well fast track such a denuncia to the top of the lists.

Sorry Peter, I don't actually know the answer to that. The administrator who is Spanish, has filled in all the paperwork, and dealt with the tourist board in Santa Cruz. The culprit is in the UK at the moment, so I don't know how/if they are even aware yet.

Peterrayner
07-06-2011, 15:19
Yes ours was overseen by the administrator (who has been replaced this year) if he is in the UK they can if I recall correctly legally serve the denuncia in his absence by an official bureaufax but it must go to the correct registered address in Spain.

I must add our denuncias were for a very noisy dog 1 year from start to completion and a serious debtor 4 years to achieve an embargo on the apartment but still not finally resolved another year on :eek:

doreen
07-06-2011, 15:33
Well, thanks to that Fuerteventura forum, I have also found a link to the fining of an individual for 18.000 for renting out his bungalow in Club Atlantis - the inspection was on 4 June 2010, after complaints from other individuals (one presumes connected with the official letting agent on the site). (We did hear on the old thread that the bungalows there were Residential, I think ???) The notification confirming the fine was on 27 December 2010 - a good six months after the inspection and it seems the original imposition of the fine was not appealed.

The laws/decrees broken are listed and it states there is damage that can be caused to potential customers, the island's tourist image and profit obtained illicitly

ESTABLECIMIENTO: Bungalow Club Atlantis Bungalow nº **.

DIRECCIÓN: calle Colón, San Eugenio, 38660-Adeje.

Nº EXPEDIENTE: 173/10.

N.I.E.: X****K.

Iniciado como consecuencia de las reclamaciones/denuncias formuladas por: J, T y de las siguientes actuaciones de la Inspección de Turismo: 17021, 17021 de fecha 4 de junio de 2010, 4 de junio de 2010, formulándose el siguiente

HECHO:

Explotar turísticamente el bungalow nº ** del Complejo denominado "Club Atlantis", sin tener la pertinente autorización de la Administración turística competente.

FECHA DE INFRACCIÓN:

4 de junio de 2010.

ALEGACIONES:

Examinado el expediente de referencia, no consta al formular la presente Propuesta de Resolución, que el titular consignado haya presentado alegaciones ni aportado prueba alguna que desvirtúe el hecho imputado por Resolución de iniciación notificada mediante publicación en el Boletín Oficial de Canarias nº 253, de fecha 27 de diciembre de 2010.

FUNDAMENTACIÓN:

Examinadas las razones esgrimidas por el expedientado y los documentos aportados se expone lo siguiente:

Que se considera que debe estimarse su responsabilidad administrativa, sobre la base del contenido del acta de inspección nº 17021, de fecha 4 de junio de 2010, y no habiéndose formulado alegaciones que desvirtúen los hechos infractores imputados se propone mantener la sanción en los mismos términos y en la misma cuantía inicialmente establecida.

Que los principios de proporcionalidad y tipicidad son tenidos en cuenta a la hora de realizar la propuesta de sanción, dado que el hecho imputado está claramente tipificado por la ley y expresamente indicado en el procedimiento. En cuanto a la aplicación del principio de proporcionalidad, que se regula en el artículo 131 de la Ley 30/1992, de 26 de noviembre, de Régimen Jurídico de las Administraciones Públicas y del Procedimiento Administrativo Común, modificada por la Ley 4/1999, de 13 de enero y el artículo 79 de la Ley 7/1995, de 6 de abril, de Ordenación del Turismo de Canarias, se han tenido en cuenta distintas circunstancias: en relación con la posición del infractor en el mercado, que se trata de un establecimiento que ejerce la actividad de alojamiento turístico extrahotelero en una zona eminentemente turística como es San Eugenio, en el municipio de Adeje, a la naturaleza de la infracción, que aun teniendo reconocida una tipificación superior a grave no se encuadra dentro de las que causan un grave riesgo para el usuario turístico, no obstante, sí repercute sobre los perjuicios que puede causar a los posibles clientes, la imagen turística de la isla y el lucro ilícito obtenido.

El hecho imputado infringe lo preceptuado en las siguientes normas, viene tipificado como se indica y está calificado como se recoge seguidamente:

NORMAS SUSTANTIVAS INFRINGIDAS:

Artículos 8 y 12.1 del Decreto 23/1989, de 15 de febrero, sobre Ordenación de Apartamentos Turísticos (BOC nº 46, de 3 de abril y BOC nº 60, de 28 de abril, respectivamente).

TIPIFICACIÓN DE LA INFRACCIÓN:

Artículo 75.1 de la Ley 7/1995, de 6 de abril, de Ordenación del Turismo de Canarias (BOC nº 48, de 19 de abril), modificado por la Ley 14/2009, de 30 de diciembre (BOC nº 2, de 5.1.10), en relación con el artículo 76.18 del mismo cuerpo legal.

CALIFICACIÓN JURÍDICA DE LAS INFRACCIONES:

Grave.

Para las infracciones calificadas como graves es competente para la resolución el Ilmo. Viceconsejero de Turismo, de acuerdo con lo dispuesto en el artículo 80.2 de la Ley 7/1995, de 6 de abril, de Ordenación del Turismo de Canarias (BOC nº 48, de 19 de abril) y el artículo 4.2.o) del Decreto 240/2008, de 23 de diciembre, por el que se aprueba el Reglamento Orgánico de la Consejería de Turismo (BOC nº 3, de 7.1.09), vigente según lo dispuesto en la disposición transitoria primera del Decreto 147/2010, de 25 de octubre, por el que se determina la estructura central y periférica, así como las sedes de las consejerías del Gobierno de Canarias (BOC nº 212, de 27.10.10).

Como consecuencia de todo lo anterior se formula la siguiente

PROPUESTA DE RESOLUCIÓN

Imponer a A *****, con N.I.E. X****K, titular del establecimiento denominado Bungalow Club Atlantis Bungalow nº **, la sanción de dieciocho mil (18.000,00) euros.

Peterrayner
07-06-2011, 15:50
Club Atlantis bungalows. IIRC wasnt this action was taken by the legal sole agent of the adjoining touristic site against an owner who wasnt or couldnt register for commercial lettings.

Explotar turísticamente el bungalow nº ** del Complejo denominado "Club Atlantis", sin tener la pertinente autorización de la Administración turística competente.

Touristic explotation of bungalow No ** of the complex called "Club Atlantis" without proper authorization from the competent tourism administration.

ALEGACIONES:
Examinado el expediente de referencia, no consta al formular la presente Propuesta de Resolución, que el titular consignado haya presentado alegaciones ni aportado prueba alguna que desvirtúe el hecho imputado por Resolución de iniciación notificada mediante publicación en el Boletín Oficial de Canarias nº 253, de fecha 27 de diciembre de 2010.

Examining the reference file, it does not appear in making this proposed resolution that the declared owner has made ​​any allegations or provided any evidence to disprove the alleged act by resolution of initiation notified by publication in the Official Journal of Canary Islands no. 253, dated December 27, 2010.

It would appear the case wasnt defended.

Loaded
07-06-2011, 15:53
Verrrrrrry intwesting Doreen thanks for the info

Peterrayner
07-06-2011, 16:09
So finally after 15 years it would seem we have a private owner find for touristic explotation presumably (but not confirmed) on a residential complex attached to a tourisitc site.

Loaded
07-06-2011, 16:12
Explain how it's unconfirmed ?

Peterrayner
07-06-2011, 16:23
Explain how it's unconfirmed ?

I didnt mean the fine was unconfirmed but rather the designation of the property in question. :)


Club Atlantis is a basic complex situated amidst 700 m² of gardens and consists of 244 rooms spread over 4 floors, including 8 suites, 224 apartments and 12 studios. There is a hall with 4 lifts, 24-hours reception and currency exchange service. It also has a restaurant, TV room, game room, Internet access and a car park (both with fee). A laundry service is also available with an extra charge.

Aparthotel located only 200m from the beach and 150m from the town centre. Countless shopping venues, restaurants, bars and public transport links may all be found only within 50m and Puerto Colon marina is located a mere 250m far. Reina Sofía Airport is some 25km away.
IIRC it is listed as a touristic aparthotel complex on the Adeje council website

http://www.costa-adeje.es/public_en/pag_contenido.asp?id_nodo=28&id_hotel=26&back=/public_en/pag_contenido.asp?id_nodo=28

but I understood that the actual desigantion of the bungalows within the complex was in question???

Loaded
07-06-2011, 16:50
Ah right , who's phoning up to find out? I'm in docs at the mo so can't

Peterrayner
07-06-2011, 17:10
Ah right , who's phoning up to find out? I'm in docs at the mo so can't

Doreeeeeen :)

Loaded
07-06-2011, 18:42
Make that : I'm in hospital!

fonica
07-06-2011, 19:01
Just a quick poiint! It would appear to be internet advertising that has brought this to a head.The inspectors have known for years that "illegal" renting went on but now they can prove it.Before they were told that only family and friends were using the properties but now the inspectors have full lists of names and addresses which they produce when they go into the complexes and then they produce copies of adverts from internet rental companies or private web pages.We laugh at Spanish paper trails but they rarely give up once they smell the pot of gold.

Peterrayner
08-06-2011, 00:19
Make that : I'm in hospital! OMG nothing serious I hope get well soon. :)

Loaded
08-06-2011, 00:23
OMG nothing serious I hope get well soon. :)

Thanks peter just bronchitis, I'll be out in no time and i've got my iPhone so I can still harp on about this old law!!!

Peterrayner
08-06-2011, 08:04
Thanks peter just bronchitis, I'll be out in no time and i've got my iPhone so I can still harp on about this old law!!!

:)

dont mention hospitals and harps together. Keep on keeping on. :)

Added after 1 49 minutes:


The inspectors have known for years that "illegal" renting went on but now they can prove it.

I dont think it would be sufficient proof merely to show on owner had a website. After all websites could be used for long term rentals which are perfectly legal.

I would imagine that the inspectors would also need to show evidence of actual lettings obtained via a website.

I am informed that the inspectors are now interpreting the relevant restriction on advertising as stated in article 42 (c) of the 1995 Letting Laws: They cannot be included in catalogues or commercial material in travel agencies.
also includes internet based website advertisments such as Ownrs Direct etc.

Tom & Sharon
08-06-2011, 10:27
But Peter, if you look on Owners Direct and others, they give weekly rental rates, not long term. They also have an availability calender which shows weeks already booked.

How could that be mis-construed?

Peterrayner
08-06-2011, 11:01
But Peter, if you look on Owners Direct and others, they give wekly rental rates, not long term. They also have an availability calender which shows weeks already booked.

How could that be mis-construed?

Oh I totally agree! having a website like Owners Direct is for me now an unacceptable risk in light of the recent clarification of the laws on advertisings and the apparent enforcement actions.

If they are stating weekly rental rates and giving details of the complex, its location, their names and contact details etc. then they are clearly at risk.

I was just trying to be devils advocate in stating that evidence of a website alone wouldnt be sufficient but thats just a personal view and it is presumably why we might be seeing the first of on site visits and direct contact with private owners.

PS I think your plea might be in vain the renters arent doing anything illegal that I am aware of and all kids scream. The local school holidays start soon dont they. :wink:

Hughsyb
08-06-2011, 14:28
all kids scream.

No, I'm sorry Peter, you've got it wrong.

Residents' children don't scream.

Owners' children don't scream.

Owners' family children don't scream.

Owners' friends children don't scream.

The only children who scream are..............holidaymakers' children.

Tom & Sharon
08-06-2011, 14:45
No, I'm sorry Peter, you've got it wrong.

Residents' children don't scream.

Owners' children don't scream.

Owners' family children don't scream.

Owners' friends children don't scream.

The only children who scream are..............holidaymakers' children.

You've forgotten the bl***y inflatable crocodiles they bring on holiday with them as well, so I can't get in our residents pool!

Peterrayner
08-06-2011, 15:08
No, I'm sorry Peter, you've got it wrong.

Residents' children don't scream.

Owners' children don't scream.

Owners' family children don't scream.

Owners' friends children don't scream.

The only children who scream are..............holidaymakers' children.

Well my grandson enjoyed our pool and he screamed his head off but everyone seemed to like him

Hughsyb
08-06-2011, 15:50
Well my grandson enjoyed our pool and he screamed his head off but everyone seemed to like him

I assume the crocodiles got him?

Peterrayner
08-06-2011, 15:59
I assume the crocodiles got him? That lad can eat for England put the croc between 2 slices of bread and its a goner. :hungry::hungry:

sleepy
08-06-2011, 17:32
I wonder how many people commenting in this thread would actually admit to spending a past holiday on a residential complex and who now own on one.I have to say I'm guilty of that.:whistle:

AL JAY
08-06-2011, 17:37
I have stayed at Parque Santiago 1 & 2 many times and wasn't aware that it was classed as residential until about 6 months ago!

Peterrayner
08-06-2011, 18:14
I wonder how many people commenting in this thread would actually admit to spending a past holiday on a residential complex and who now own on one.I have to say I'm guilty of that.:whistle:

We stayed in the Mar Ola Park (aparthotel) and on the Sand Club Apartments in Golf del Sur 2002 and 2003 whilst looking around to buy an apartment in Los Cristianos. The Sand Club was a private apartment but the complex was timeshare with a 24 hour reception. Nice old style apartment but to close the the flight path of incoming planes for our liking.

jogger321
08-06-2011, 18:19
I have stayed at Parque Santiago 1 & 2 many times and wasn't aware that it was classed as residential until about 6 months ago!

And loads still being advertised on Holiday lettings site for the above two complexes.

Lets face it any "Inspector" with a rudimentary grasp of the English Language could sit down for a day or two with a PC and end up with hundreds to prosecute if they so wish

fonica
08-06-2011, 18:32
Visited friends on Adeje Golf who paid a fortune for their house which is right on the course in a residential complex.The villa next door is rented out (supposedly to couples) however at the moment Butlins would be proud of the noise that the several chidren in the group are making and have been making since 8.30 this morning.They are there for 10 days so my friends are on a flight back to the UK tomorrow as they can´t face the prospect of nine more days of hell.Pay your 950,000 Euros and still end up with a problem! Feel sorry for the family renting the villa because the other neighbours will be calling the police and generally giving them a hard time even though they know that these people thought that they had rented a tourist villa.

Margaretta
08-06-2011, 18:34
We don't let but I'm intrigued by how the whole matter may be checked.
Will the 'inspectors' look for lets advertisements and then write to the owners? Or will they sneak around complexes knocking on doors and asking whether the occupants are residents or not?
Or do they wait for people to snoop on each other and let them know?
That task seems too enormous to contemplate.....
What will happen when the dreadful deed is discovered?

Personally I think that it would be better if the formal complaints system were more severely upheld for unsociable behaviour.

Ecky Thump
08-06-2011, 18:41
But Peter, if you look on Owners Direct and others, they give weekly rental rates, not long term. They also have an availability calender which shows weeks already booked.

How could that be mis-construed?

It would all depend on the interpretation of the wording "long term", people still want to know what the rental rate is either by the week or month. ???

sleepy
08-06-2011, 18:47
We don't let but I'm intrigued by how the whole matter may be checked.
Will the 'inspectors' look for lets advertisements and then write to the owners? Or will they sneak around complexes knocking on doors and asking whether the occupants are residents or not?
Or do they wait for people to snoop on each other and let them know?
That task seems too enormous to contemplate.....
What will happen when the dreadful deed is discovered?

Personally I think that it would be better if the formal complaints system were more severely upheld for unsociable behaviour.

Some very valid points Margaretta.
The trouble is at the moment I really don't believe any of us genuinely know any of the answers until the tourist board or whoever else is concerned state exactly what is going on and what is hoped to be achieved from all this.

andy2664
08-06-2011, 19:08
I normally stay in wintergardens on golf del sur when I come over to tenerife, can you legally stay there,

sleepy
08-06-2011, 19:10
It would all depend on the interpretation of the wording "long term", people still want to know what the rental rate is either by the week or month. ???

Well I've been reliably informed by the administrators on the touristic complex that I own on that to do a 'long let' it must be for a minimum period of one year and they must have a copy of the contract,which will then exempt me paying the weekly registration fees that they also demand.
I am one for abiding by the rules and regulations but to be told what I can and cant do with own property to this extent sucks big time.I'd never entertain buying anything in Spanish territory ever again.

Tom & Sharon
08-06-2011, 19:12
Visited friends on Adeje Golf who paid a fortune for their house which is right on the course in a residential complex.The villa next door is rented out (supposedly to couples) however at the moment Butlins would be proud of the noise that the several chidren in the group are making and have been making since 8.30 this morning.They are there for 10 days so my friends are on a flight back to the UK tomorrow as they can´t face the prospect of nine more days of hell.Pay your 950,000 Euros and still end up with a problem! Feel sorry for the family renting the villa because the other neighbours will be calling the police and generally giving them a hard time even though they know that these people thought that they had rented a tourist villa.

And there-in lies the crux of the whole problem.

Call the police, and when the people demand their money back from the owners, they may think twice about doing it again.


I normally stay in wintergardens on golf del sur when I come over to tenerife, can you legally stay there,

No, you can't. It's residential.

Hughsyb
08-06-2011, 20:17
You've forgotten the bl***y inflatable crocodiles they bring on holiday with them as well, so I can't get in our residents pool!

Excuse me, but it is not a residents pool. It is an owners and their guests pool, whether they are resident or not.

Quite frankly, the attitude you portray on your posts that residents are somehow superior to anyone else staying in a complex is distinctly distasteful, and typical of very shallow people like yourselves.



I normally stay in wintergardens on golf del sur when I come over to tenerife, can you legally stay there,




No, you can't. It's residential.

Nonsense.

You can legally stay anywhere you like - as long as you've paid for it! As a tourist, you are not breaking any law wherever you stay.

pollye
08-06-2011, 20:34
And how many hotels and other licenced accommodation rely on them too?

Thats just it. There isn't that much 'licenced accomodation' & hotels often work out too expensive for your average person. The advent of the all inclusive hotel which BTW is expanding (First Choice are only going to be doing AI) will destroy local businesses i.e restaurants etc.
Anyway where can guests get a beautifully furnished 1 bed suite with luxuries like Britsh TV & satelite on a flat screen, DVD player with over 100 (legit) DVD's. Cd's Books games for £240/week?
A lot of the so called licenced accomodation charge for all the extras. Laguna Park 2 charge some friends €5 a day to use the TV! Ive stayed in better private accomodation in Tenerife than touristic complexes. owners who visit regularly like ourselves tend to have decent apartments.
I have turned down bookings because I am not happy with the bookee.

Peterrayner
08-06-2011, 20:44
Just to would add some comments to the last few posts.

I think the situation especially in regard to use of residential property has shocked the authorities and whilst the new inspectors have been in place since the start of this year I do believe that they had already been gathering background information for a while before this. This is evident in the wording of the statement to parliment in February IIRC that there are curently "400,000 illegal or clandestine beds on the islands", so they have obviously been aware for some time of the levels of activity involved.

Surely they realise that to cause panic and distress amongs such a population would be counter productive and they need firstly to formulate a workable plan of action to regularise the situation.

If they wanted to they could simply prosecute 1 or 2 poor individuals and splash this all over the press and the vast majority of so called illegal activity would cease almost overnight.

So we have to ask why they havent done this and the answer IMHO is they fully realise this would be an utter disaster for the islands reputation and economy but they are between a rock and a hard place as evidenced in the attitudes express on here by owners with different outlooks on the current situation.

Without the advent of the internet it wouldnt be possible for the current level of lettings to take place nor would we know much about the on going inspections without this type of forum and the internet has only been widely available in broadband form on the islands for a few years. It certainly was not available when they drafted the laws in 1995.

They obviously didnt have much choice in releasing the official parlimentary statement to the press but it was confined to the local Spanish news media but have we heard anything from an offical source since in the press.

I dont think so ??? so we have to ask why and I think we must come to the conclusion that they dont want to cause damage or harm to the island economy but they have to come up with a solution acceptable to all.

I see slight evidence of a way forward based on some info obtained admittedly second hand but from a very reliable source which is that on touristic sites the present legal situation would remain and in order to short let owners must be registered and licenced and the sole agents must be legally established.

On residential sites I think they need to clarify in law that lettings to family and friends is also legal but on the strict basis that no commercial advertising or use of any and all types of 3rd party agencies is allowed.

Apartment owners wanting to take advantage of this would also need to be legally registered and licenced, whicn means a revenue stream for the authorities in payment of fees and taxes and would provide a form of control for the residential neighbours if guests behavior is unacceptable as the licences could then be revoked and financial fines imposed.

CIM
08-06-2011, 20:45
Well I've been reliably informed by the administrators on the touristic complex that I own on that to do a 'long let' it must be for a minimum period of one year and they must have a copy of the contract,which will then exempt me paying the weekly registration fees that they also demand.
I am one for abiding by the rules and regulations but to be told what I can and cant do with own property to this extent sucks big time.I'd never entertain buying anything in Spanish territory ever again.

Minimum long let is three months though? No?

Tom & Sharon
08-06-2011, 20:47
Excuse me, but it is not a residents pool. It is an owners and their guests pool, whether they are resident or not.

Quite frankly, the attitude you portray on your posts that residents are somehow superior to anyone else staying in a complex is distinctly distasteful, and typical of very shallow people like yourselves.
Nonsense.

You can legally stay anywhere you like - as long as you've paid for it! As a tourist, you are not breaking any law wherever you stay.

Right, firstly - I make no distinction between resident & owner. When I say resident, I mean owner, whether they reside in Tenerife or not. To me that is obvious, owners are all equal whether they choose to live in their investment or in the UK.

When you say it is an owners and their guests pool, you are also quite right. As long as they are personal guests that is. It is not under any circumstances an owners and random people off the internet's pool. When we bought our apartment, part of the purchase price was for the pool. There are 50 of us, so we therefore all own 2% of that pool. We also pay community charge every quarter for its upkeep, and it is a lovely area. What I object to, is people renting out their apartment illegally and making a profit from the subsequent rental of the pool. It is not theirs to rent out. They own 2% of it like the rest of us, and pay the same quarterly charge. We paid a lot of money for our apartment, and still are every quarter, and I object absolutely to Mr & Mrs Jeremy Kyle and their kids turning up and paying £350 for the use of it.

I suppose you could say, that if people want to rent out their apartment, then it isn't harming anyone else's property. It is simply the nuisance value. But the pool is a different matter. It is community property, and should not be used for any individual to effectively run a business from.

If that means I am shallow then so be it. Personally, I can't see how anyone wanting to preserve the lifestyle they have bought into can render them "shallow", but you are entitled to your opinion.

Where do you live? Do you live in UK or Tenerife? Do you have a property on a residential complex which you feel you have the right somehow to rent out, regardless of the law and the feelings of fellow owners. Or do you just like to holiday in residential complexes where you shouldn't?

You are also quite right that you can stay where you like as a tourist. That doesn't substantiate the owners or illegal lettings agents action though does it?

sleepy
08-06-2011, 20:51
Minimum long let is three months though? No?

Well CIM,that's what I was led to believe but it depends what rules are laid down by the Community so it seems.

CIM
08-06-2011, 20:55
Well CIM,that's what I was led to believe but it depends what rules are laid down by the Community so it seems.
Hmm - sounds a bit odd. They are saying you can long let for three months everywhere except on your complex? I´d get that checked out, I find that difficult to believe.
Can anyone on here clarify?

Peterrayner
08-06-2011, 21:00
Well CIM,that's what I was led to believe but it depends what rules are laid down by the Community so it seems.

No it absolutely DOES NOT !!!

The community has no powers to regulate any long term lets nor can it grant itself any legal powers greater than the civil laws. Communities are currently acting under the Law of Horizontal Properties and I can assure you that no where is anything mentioned or any powers granted to the community to regulate or limit any form of lettings of privately owned property in this act.

The current relevant and sole act regarding long term lets is the Law of Urban Lettings which states that a long term let is anything over 45 days according to my accountant has we currently have long term tenants in our 1 bed apartment who have a legal contract for 6 months which we have just renewed.

pollye
08-06-2011, 21:02
Sokay Hughsyb I've met Sharon briefly, she's nice & we can have a grown up discussion. LOL I do agree with a lot of what your saying. BTW I am an old member on here I have been ill so didn't have the energy to bother with anything for a while.
To Sharon,
I thought you lived on Aguamarina in GDS? Where the eff did I get that idea from? Still have brain fog from my illness.
I do get feed back from my neighbour upstairs & so far no Pikeys. I turned down 2 bookings 2 weeks ago from youngsters. I turned down one once from a guy who had previously stayed on the Golf Del Sewer! I decided as he couldn't pronounce it properly he could eff off! LMAO I can afford to be selective because I haven't got a mortgage. I am lucky in that
As I've said & has been said further on residents make noise too!
I think it is up to individual complexes, presidents, residents, owners to decide whether they put up with holiday rentals. If your president/residents decide to take action well that's fine.
But if all these apartments have to be let out as so called long term rentals there will a glut of them, many will be re-possessed, complexes will fail because owners will not be able to pay their community fees & tenerife economy will get hit hard again.

CIM
08-06-2011, 21:05
No it absolutely DOES NOT !!!

The community has no powers to regulate any long term lets nor can it grant itself any legal powers greater than the civil laws. Communities are currently acting under the Law of Horizontal Properties and I can assure you that no where is anything mention or any powers granted to the community to regulate or limit any form of lettings of privatley owned property

The current relevant law is the Law of Urban Lettings which states that a long term let is anything over 45 days according to my accountant has we currently have long term tenants in our 1 bed apartment who have a legal contract for 6 months which we have just renewed.

Thats what I thought but thought it was three months? So a contract for 45 days or more is classed as a long let and the owner is therefore untouchable when it comes to all these touristic letting laws?

sleepy
08-06-2011, 21:09
Hmm - sounds a bit odd. They are saying you can long let for three months everywhere except on your complex? I´d get that checked out, I find that difficult to believe.
Can anyone on here clarify?

CIM

Sorry!Just to clarify the position.I could do a long let for less than a year but I would also have to pay weekly registration fees.A rule set down by this particular community.

CIM
08-06-2011, 21:11
That seems very unfair. How can they charge you when they are a touristic letting agent if you are renting on a residential basis???!!!

Peterrayner
08-06-2011, 21:20
Thats what I thought but thought it was three months? So a contract for 45 days or more is classed as a long let and the owner is therefore untouchable when it comes to all these touristic letting laws?

Yes CIM absolutley IMHO

touristic short lettings are under the control the 1995 Law of Tourismo which specifically references to the Law of Urban Lettings as the only legal control on all other property lettings.

As previously stated the community have no controls what so ever nor can they grant themselves any well not legally anyway.

sleepy
08-06-2011, 21:21
That seems very unfair. How can they charge you when they are a touristic letting agent if you are renting on a residential basis???!!!

I think it is unreasonable too.
This is where all these letting rules and regulations fall down and yet we have to abide by them.
If I was to sign my apartment over to the on site and legal letting agent,I would see little or no returns at all plus I would have limited access to my own property.

Peterrayner
08-06-2011, 21:27
I think it is unreasonable too.
This is where all these letting rules and regulations fall down and yet we have to abide by them.
If I was to sign my apartment over to the on site and legal letting agent,I would see little or no returns at all plus I would have limited access to my own property.

This is why if you prefer to long term let then a residential property would be the best bet. For commercial short term lettings then the touristic sites currently have the legal monopoly with all that implies for the property owners I am afraid.

Loaded
09-06-2011, 00:18
Perhaps the ultimate goal is to take the marketing of tenerife's tourism away from individuals and give it entirely to hotels and aparthotels - this way the cabildo and government can more easily manage the image of the island (and islands).

Peterrayner
09-06-2011, 06:23
Perhaps the ultimate goal is to take the marketing of tenerife's tourism away from individuals and give it entirely to hotels and aparthotels - this way the cabildo and government can more easily manage the image of the island (and islands).

I am not sure I understand the logic of that statement nor do I think it would be a wise move in the long term interests of the island(s) economies which are almost entirely tourism based.

Surely the authorities must regain and retain control of the touristic marketing and the image etc etc of the island(s) and with respect to privately owned residential property in the large resort areas it can come up with a reasonalble solution that could work for everyone.

CIM
09-06-2011, 10:30
Have I incorrectly assumed the minimum long let in Tenerife is 3 months? Don´t know where I have got this information from (I think it was this thread on the other forum) but this is very important as I talk about this to just about every client I speak to. 45 days is much more appealing to people looking at deriving an income from their property when they are not using it.

Is this confirmed in law anywhere on the internet? I´d like to link to it from my website and maybe stick an article up clarifying (or at least attempting to...) the situation for those looking at purchasing.

Interestingly, I was speaking to a couple just last night who want to buy and rent out to holiday makers. They are staying in a lovely "holiday" apartment in El Mirador for the week :whistle: I mentioned the illegal letting side and it was the first they had heard of it.

Tom & Sharon
09-06-2011, 11:00
According to our administrators the Ley de Turismo prevents letting under 3 months in residential complexes.

I've had a look, and couldn't find any term mentioned. Maybe someone else can?

fonica
09-06-2011, 11:20
OK CIM if you are going to put information on your web site it would be a good idea to see Manuel Barajas Garcia Talavera who is the Jefe de Sección de Inspección in the Consjería de Tourismo in Avenida Añaga in Santa Cruz.He will give you all the information that you need.Even the local lawyers and accountants are misinformed or not really interested and listening to general gossip tells us little of the truth.I have just spoken to a well known local rental agent who wasn't aware of the facts so little hope for the rest.

sleepy
09-06-2011, 11:22
Interestingly, I was speaking to a couple just last night who want to buy and rent out to holiday makers.

Hey....ideal CIM....it just happens that I have a place for sale on a touristic complex which can legally be rented out to holiday makers :)

Hughsyb
09-06-2011, 11:30
Unfortunately Pollye, you'll find realism doesn't go down to well on here. Like every one else, you will be stereotyped.



Quite frankly, the attitude you portray on your posts that residents are somehow superior to anyone else staying in a complex is distinctly distasteful, and typical of very shallow people like yourselves.





I object absolutely to Mr & Mrs Jeremy Kyle and their kids turning up and paying £350 for the use of it.



Sums it all up really. Nothing more to be said.

CIM
09-06-2011, 11:31
OK CIM if you are going to put information on your web site it would be a good idea to see Manuel Barajas Garcia Talavera
He was also mentioned on the previous forum as someone to speak to about "Scruffy / rude / drunk PR´s"
A couple of people of the forum contacted him I think and had replies. I know what you mean about mixed messages/information... Ask 10 different people, get 10 different answers!

fonica
09-06-2011, 12:01
SO go and get the information from the people responsible for making the regulations,they will be really helpful and tell you exactly what you can and can't do.The law is clear.

CIM
09-06-2011, 12:03
SO go and get the information from the people responsible for making the regulations,they will be really helpful and tell you exactly what you can and can't do.The law is clear.
Is it not published online somewhere? If its a law then you´d think it would be. Much easier to look at a website than traipse up to Santa Cruz for an appointment with someone who is probably very busy.

fonica
09-06-2011, 12:20
No there isn't a web page,you can speak to him on the phone but you need to go there to get all the info and you can make an appointment by calling 922475285.

Angusjim
09-06-2011, 12:37
Is it not published online somewhere? If its a law then you´d think it would be. Much easier to look at a website than traipse up to Santa Cruz for an appointment with someone who is probably very busy.
Come on Andy your sitting doing nothing any way jump in your car and get up there :lol::driving:

CIM
09-06-2011, 12:50
Come on Andy your sitting doing nothing any way jump in your car and get up there :lol::driving:
I should really... I got nowt better to do! Not like I have property sales and bloody difficult mortgages to sort out with brain dead bank staff!!!:argue:

If I´ve got time to post on here, then I should have time to go up the road and back!

Sundowner
09-06-2011, 13:02
Having followed this thread for a while and become totally confused with the rights and wrongs of letting............I found this article which has now unconfused me :)

http://www.palomabeach.com/letting-law-95-explained.asp

I post it only because I found it useful..............

CIM
09-06-2011, 13:13
Having followed this thread for a while and become totally confused with the rights and wrongs of letting............I found this article which has now unconfused me :)

http://www.palomabeach.com/letting-law-95-explained.asp

I post it only because I found it useful..............
"Loaded" who is posting on here wrote it - he loves the subject! I bet his wife is sick of hearing about it though! :lol:

doreen
09-06-2011, 13:28
"Loaded" who is posting on here wrote it - he loves the subject! l:


And as he pointed out to me, that he had updated it, I edited the opening post on this thread


EDIT - more up to date by Loaded
http://www.propertyforsaleintenerife...e-canaries.asp

Loaded
09-06-2011, 13:36
yes I wrote a clearer version and more up to date one on my blog: http://www.propertyforsaleintenerife.com/the-1995-letting-law-in-tenerife-and-the-canaries.asp

Added after 2 minutes:

And Andy: There's nothing the 1995 law about 3 months etc, what it does say in article 42 is the consequences of non compliance:

"1. The accommodations that do not follow the unity of exploitation remain excluded from offering tourism in the canaries with the following consequences:

a) They are not authorized for tourist accommodation.

b) They can only be rented in accordance with the Civil Code (Codigo Civil) or the law of Urban rentals and in no case can they be used for tourism.

Then if you read the codigo civil it will say 3 month minumim perhaps. its here: http://noticias.juridicas.com/base_datos/Privado/cc.html

sorry i don't have time right now to read it through i'm off to school to pick kids up lol

CIM
09-06-2011, 13:45
Cheers, good to see you´re back on your feet!

cainaries
09-06-2011, 14:57
I know this is very cheeky, CIM, but if you do go to ask at what point a 'short let' becomes a 'long let' could you bear to ask if it is also true that the tenants are required to have an NIE which is what I have heard. This would be a bit of a pain, tbh. This is to differentiate them from tourists.

Loaded
09-06-2011, 15:18
You don't need to go and ask it's all in the law, you can live in a residential apartment for as little a time as you like - the contract has to be for 3 months though and it would need to be your registered habitual address. I arrive at that theory because in the 95 law and the last tourist law from 2010 it defines a tourist as someone who makes
Use of tourist accommodation and does not live at the accommodation. I'll check the exact phrasing and paste but it's in my article.

cainaries
09-06-2011, 15:22
You don't need to go and ask it's all in the law, you can live in a residential apartment for as little a time as you like - the contract has to be for 3 months though and it would need to be your registered habitual address. I arrive at that theory because in the 95 law and the last tourist law from 2010 it defines a tourist as someone who makes
Use of tourist accommodation and does not live at the accommodation. I'll check the exact phrasing and paste but it's in my article.
Thanks, that would be very kind of you. Are you feeling any better yet?

Loaded
09-06-2011, 15:23
"Tourist activities are are those companies that lend a service of accommodation from an establishment open to the public for a price.

It is understood that lending a service of tourist accommodation is when a stay in an establishment is offered liberally and of a temporary form, without the person accommodated having changed their permanent residence (source 9)."

The law also defines a tourist in Article 15 source (10):

"A tourist user or tourist is understood to be a person who uses tourist establishments and goods or receives the services these company's offer, and as a client they can demand and enjoy those services."

Thanks I'm feeling much better x

Tom & Sharon
09-06-2011, 15:54
Sums it all up really. Nothing more to be said.

There's nothing more to be said because you are trying to substantiate illegal lettings and are on the wrong side of the law!

Enough said!

Added after 5 minutes:


Where do you live? Do you live in UK or Tenerife? Do you have a property on a residential complex which you feel you have the right somehow to rent out, regardless of the law and the feelings of fellow owners. Or do you just like to holiday in residential complexes where you shouldn't?

I note you didn't answer my question?

Peterrayner
09-06-2011, 19:04
Have I incorrectly assumed the minimum long let in Tenerife is 3 months? Don´t know where I have got this information from (I think it was this thread on the other forum) but this is very important as I talk about this to just about every client I speak to. 45 days is much more appealing to people looking at deriving an income from their property when they are not using it.

Is this confirmed in law anywhere on the internet? I´d like to link to it from my website and maybe stick an article up clarifying (or at least attempting to...) the situation for those looking at purchasing.

Interestingly, I was speaking to a couple just last night who want to buy and rent out to holiday makers. They are staying in a lovely "holiday" apartment in El Mirador for the week :whistle: I mentioned the illegal letting side and it was the first they had heard of it.

Hi Cim that info came via my accountant a few years ago and I have never had cause to investigate it really has we have always let the long term apartment on a six months basis which the accountant has always said is fine. I am over at the weekend and seeing the accountant on Monday (20th) so will ask for some up to date verifications as we are dealing with Spanish laws here :wink:

Found this English Translation of the Law of Urban Lettings 1994 Article 9


Article 9 . Minimum Term

1. The duration of the lease shall be freely agreed by the parties. If less than five years, when the day of expiry of the contract, it shall be extended by mandatory annual installments until the lease reaches a minimum of five years, unless disclosed to the landlord tenant with thirty days notice at least the date of termination of the contract or any extensions, their desire not to renew it.

The period shall begin from the date of the contract or the placing of property available to the tenant if it is later. It shall be the tenant's proof of the date of the provision.

2. Is deemed to be held for one year leases for those who do not provide long term or it is indefinite, subject to annual renewal right for the tenant, in the terms specified above.

3. There shall be no mandatory extension of the contract when, at the time of its conclusion, stating in it, explicitly, the need for the landlord to occupy the rented premises before the expiry of five years to use it to permanent housing for themselves.

If within three months of the termination of the contract, the landlord had not proceeded to occupy the house itself must replace the tenant in the use and enjoyment of the rented premises for a further period of five years with compensation for expenses that the eviction of the house would have thought until the time of the reoccupation or compensate, at the option of the tenant, an amount equal to the amount of rent for the years that remain to complete five.

As some one has pointed out I would think you need to get a lawyers advice at to what exactly this means.

PS just dug out the letter from Marcos Cabrera dated March 1996 so some 15 years ago which references the above article 9 Law of Urban Lettings 1995 which doesnt really give an indication of the minimum let only that it has to be freely agreed between the landlord and tenant. He does however give an opinion that the acceptable mimimum is 6 months

This is the only reference I can find in writing and of course it may be out of date. The other figures I have been given for minimum long term lets of 45 days or 3 months minimum I cannot verify.

Maybe some other long term letters have some other info ???

PPS I have just realised that as an owner I have access to the in-house lawyers of our new Administration company and will be meeting them on Monday as well so can ask for a definitive answer well hopefully !!

cainaries
09-06-2011, 23:22
peterrayner and loaded - many thanks for all your posts and efforts to establish exactly what constitutes a long-term let. Huge difference between 45 days and 6 months! Glad you're feeling better, loaded, keep taking the tablets.

CIM
09-06-2011, 23:28
PPS I have just realised that as an owner I have access to the in-house lawyers of our new Administration company and will be meeting them on Monday as well so can ask for a definitive answer well hopefully !!

Wow - no wonder "Mick and Barbara from Hartlepool" who have just bought a one bed on a residential complex have no idea what they can and can´t do! What a total mess this all is!
Look forward to the outcome of your meeting on Monday Peter. It would be nice to have some unambiguous answers on this fractal-like subject.

sleepy
10-06-2011, 01:21
Wow - no wonder "Mick and Barbara from Hartlepool" who have just bought a one bed on a residential complex have no idea what they can and can´t do! What a total mess this all is!
Look forward to the outcome of your meeting on Monday Peter. It would be nice to have some unambiguous answers on this fractal-like subject.

Wise words indeed Mr.CIM!!
We are relying on you Peterrayner...lol!!

Peterrayner
10-06-2011, 04:11
Wow - no wonder "Mick and Barbara from Hartlepool" who have just bought a one bed on a residential complex have no idea what they can and can´t do! What a total mess this all is!
Look forward to the outcome of your meeting on Monday Peter. It would be nice to have some unambiguous answers on this fractal-like subject.

1. They can enjoy it thenselves this much "seems" to be certain :)

2. They can let it long term :) although the term has yet to be defined ?

3. They cant advertise it commercially for short term holiday lets..


We are relying on you Peterrayner...lol!! I will do my best but I am talking about talking to a "lawyer " here :eek:

poshbird22
10-06-2011, 07:12
Hi, we are coming over next month to live.( cant wait) The plan is to stay somewhere in Los Chris for 2 months, get a feel of the area and then rent long term. This post has made me a tad apprehensive?? Have been offered an apartment in El Mirador. Please PM with any info.

doreen
10-06-2011, 07:23
Hi, we are coming over next month to live.( cant wait) The plan is to stay somewhere in Los Chris for 2 months, get a feel of the area and then rent long term. This post has made me a tad apprehensive?? Have been offered an apartment in El Mirador. Please PM with any info.

Don't worry poshbird - this should not affect you at all as a tenant - it is owners who need to be concerned :)

AJP
10-06-2011, 08:15
Hi, we are coming over next month to live.( cant wait) The plan is to stay somewhere in Los Chris for 2 months, get a feel of the area and then rent long term. This post has made me a tad apprehensive?? Have been offered an apartment in El Mirador. Please PM with any info.

And some people have said that this "new law" won,t affect people coming to Tenerife.Imagine how many more apprehensive people there are out there who are looking for an independent holiday,and are now considering alternative locations

jogger321
10-06-2011, 09:14
And some people have said that this "new law" won,t affect people coming to Tenerife.Imagine how many more apprehensive people there are out there who are looking for an independent holiday,and are now considering alternative locations

I suspect you are vastly overestimating this.

If there are still lots of people still buying appts in Tenerife(i.e making either the first or second biggest financial comittment of their lives) and are totally oblivious to what is going on, when a basic rudimentary search either by themselves on the net or their financial advisor would reveal the risk they are taking

...I doubt someone renting an appt on holiday for a week or two will be too bothered

AJP
10-06-2011, 09:21
I suspect you are vastly overestimating this.

If there are still lots of people still buying appts in Tenerife(i.e making either the first or second biggest financial comittment of their lives) and are totally oblivious to what is going on, when a basic rudimentary search either by themselves on the net or their financial advisor would reveal the risk they are taking

...I doubt someone renting an appt on holiday for a week or two will be too bothered

I,m not talking about owners,I,m talking about independent renters,who, when they go on websites to book independently will find more resorts to choose from other than Tenerife,without the "apprehension" of whether they are likely to get a knock on their door whilst on holiday.

doreen
10-06-2011, 09:23
I,m not talking about owners,I,m talking about independent renters,who, when they go on websites to book independently will find more resorts to choose from other than Tenerife,without the "apprehension" of whether they are likely to get a knock on their door whilst on holiday.

Maybe we just need to add a post per page saying - any tourists reading, don't worry - it won't affect you :)

Tom & Sharon
10-06-2011, 09:31
Maybe we just need to add a post per page saying - any tourists reading, don't worry - it won't affect you :)

Or maybe a post advising them to stay in hotels or touristic complexes which is where they should be!

Angusjim
10-06-2011, 09:33
Maybe we just need to add a post per page saying - any tourists reading, don't worry - it won't affect you :)

Even easier why don't the donkeys ( no offence Reggie ) from the touristic police not get their finger out and do something about the situation one way or the other. IMO as long as doubt, confusion and stories circulate the losses to the local economy will grow and grow and reading thru forum threads like this will not help holidaymakers choose to come to Tenerife

CIM
10-06-2011, 09:39
IMO as long as doubt, confusion and stories circulate the losses to the local economy will grow and grow and reading thru forum threads like this will not help holidaymakers choose to come to Tenerife

Very true, no matter how many times people go over it - it is not clear cut to people, it is not black and white and that is not a good thing.
Plus newest complexes are all residential. Lots of the touristic ones already look really shabby and rundown and are only going to get older and worse. All the newer ones (like Palm Gardens :), El Mirador, Dinastia etc) which are a lot smarter, tidier and attractive to tourists, are off limits - doesn´t bode well for the future!

Angusjim
10-06-2011, 09:40
Maybe we just need to add a post per page saying - any tourists reading, don't worry - it won't affect you :)

Even easier why don't the donkeys ( no offence Reggie ) from the touristic police not get their finger out and do something about the situation one way or the other. IMO as long as doubt, confusion and stories circulate the losses to the local economy will grow and grow and reading thru forum threads like this will not help holidaymakers choose to come to Tenerife

Added after 4 minutes:


Or maybe a post advising them to stay in hotels or touristic complexes which is where they should be!

Thats an option Sharon but I for one like certain things from my accomodation and hotels & many touristic complexes that I have stayed in the past do not offer what I want. Where will all these "legal beds" come from are there a few hundred thousand spare beds at the moment. I will stick to my "illegal complex" where I am made very welcome by all there

Tom & Sharon
10-06-2011, 10:03
Thats an option Sharon but I for one like certain things from my accomodation and hotels & many touristic complexes that I have stayed in the past do not offer what I want. Where will all these "legal beds" come from are there a few hundred thousand spare beds at the moment. I will stick to my "illegal complex" where I am made very welcome by all there

But Jim, you can't expect people who've bought in residential complexes to tolerate being surrounded by holidaymakers, just because said people can't find what they want elsewhere.

You would be a "nice and considerate" holidaymaker, but you've got to understand that everyone isn't like you. Everybody that stays in a "holiday" apartment isn't fussy, and does so because they have certain requirements. The majority do it because of price. The apartment next door to us was advertised as "The cheapest 3 bed on the Golf." What kind of people do you think that was attracting? I'll tell you - 10 pikeys and their kids all squeezed into one 3 bed apartment. £350 a week - squeeze 10 in - £35 a week each. 10 cheap Ryanair flights and hey-ho, we can party all week in the sun for next to nothing.

The community have put a stop to that one now, but I can assure you it wasn't fun. You've been to our apartment, so you know what it's like. Do you really think for one minute we bought it to live next door to that? Or that it's fair?

I also think that the whole point of the legislation is to upgrade the island and stop people such as I've just mentioned coming to the island. I don't think the Canarian Government want them either. If they did, there wouldn't be a moratorium on building anything apart from residential complexes and 5* hotels.

Tenerife Property
10-06-2011, 10:07
Please keep this thread going for updates on this important topic. As a sales agent it is of paramount importance to keep up to date and it is great to be able to direct clients to first hand information.

CIM
10-06-2011, 10:09
Please keep this thread going...
Try stopping it!

Angusjim
10-06-2011, 10:19
But Jim, you can't expect people who've bought in residential complexes to tolerate being surrounded by holidaymakers, just because said people can't find what they want elsewhere.

You would be a "nice and considerate" holidaymaker, but you've got to understand that everyone isn't like you. Everybody that stays in a "holiday" apartment isn't fussy, and does so because they have certain requirements. The majority do it because of price. The apartment next door to us was advertised as "The cheapest 3 bed on the Golf." What kind of people do you think that was attracting? I'll tell you - 10 pikeys and their kids all squeezed into one 3 bed apartment. £350 a week - squeeze 10 in - £35 a week each. 10 cheap Ryanair flights and hey-ho, we can party all week in the sun for next to nothing.

The community have put a stop to that one now, but I can assure you it wasn't fun. You've been to our apartment, so you know what it's like. Do you really think for one minute we bought it to live next door to that? Or that it's fair?

I also think that the whole point of the legislation is to upgrade the island and stop people such as I've just mentioned coming to the island. I don't think the Canarian Government want them either. If they did, there wouldn't be a moratorium on building anything apart from residential complexes and 5* hotels.

I agree with most of your points but there are as I have said earlier residential complexes who have no problem with the holiday letting, so why not let individual complexes have their say and take part in some sort of registration system and they can put any restricitions they want on what or who are acceptable in THEIR complexes. You mention " Pikeys and 5star hotels but there is a HUGE group in between who want choice and if they dont get that in Tenerife they will go elsewhere me included

Tom & Sharon
10-06-2011, 10:34
I agree with most of your points but there are as I have said earlier residential complexes who have no problem with the holiday letting, so why not let individual complexes have their say and take part in some sort of registration system and they can put any restricitions they want on what or who are acceptable in THEIR complexes. You mention " Pikeys and 5star hotels but there is a HUGE group in between who want choice and if they dont get that in Tenerife they will go elsewhere me included

Also some valid points. I know that there are a huge band of people in between the 2 categories I mentioned, but it's not for individual homeowners to cater for that market.

The Canarian Government need to provide for it. I still think they are only after 5* travellers though. They may be chasing an unreasonable dream, but for now, that seems to be what they want.

Incidentally, what can you get in an independent apartment that you can't get in an aparthotel? Is that not the answer? To build more of those, with everything the independent traveller requires, with the backup of a hotel service if required?

Angusjim
10-06-2011, 10:35
Please keep this thread going for updates on this important topic. As a sales agent it is of paramount importance to keep up to date and it is great to be able to direct clients to first hand information.

Welcome to the Forum perhaps you have some information or stories to add to the debate from the coal face so as to speak. I don't think any estate agents who are Forum members have EVER posted on this thread don't know why???



Added after 15 minutes:


Also some valid points. I know that there are a huge band of people in between the 2 categories I mentioned, but it's not for individual homeowners to cater for that market.

The Canarian Government need to provide for it. I still think they are only after 5* travellers though. They may be chasing an unreasonable dream, but for now, that seems to be what they want.

Incidentally, what can you get in an independent apartment that you can't get in an aparthotel? Is that not the answer? To build more of those, with everything the independent traveller requires, with the backup of a hotel service if required?

We go to one complex mainly but if we cannot get apartments we want we have another 2 we use. What I want is a clean, peaceful, quiet complex with minium / preferably no children ( been there done that ), lovely clean apartment with all mod cons, large terrace that gets sun all day, we do not want or like to sit by a pool and prefer a terrace to enjoy the sunshine and relax all at reasonable price. As for the Canarian Government do you really think they know what they want why has it taken them 15 years to envoke the law ? they were more than happy to take the taxes from apartment purchases over that period and IMO knew exactly what was going but did nothing to ensure that Estate agents etc made everyone aware of the laws ( Estates agents should be fully regulated in Tenerife another failure by the government )

Margaretta
10-06-2011, 10:52
I am naive but am really struggling with the practicalities of the enforcement of the above should it come to fruition.

Scenario: Our dear Aunty Mary has been ill in the UK. We have an apartment in Tenerife and ask if she and Uncle Joseph would like to stay there for a couple of weeks to recuperate. They are delighted, no rental of course but offer to chip in with the electricity and water bill and cleaning.
Happy flight arrive at the gate of the complex, out of the taxi and a guard, PAID FOR BY THE COMMUNITY stops them at the gate and demands to see they are the owners of the apartment through photo ID. He sends them away!!!!

Then he calls them back....they are elderly and upset and seem to be quiet people. He lets them in. All's well and they begin to relax. That evening the President whose nightly round after work is PAID FOR BY THE COMMUNITY rings the doorbell of each apartment to demand whether the owners or long-term renters are in residence. He finds out that neither Aunty Mary nor Uncle Joseph fit into these categories. He casts them out into the street and puts a denuncia? on us or our apartment so that we can never use it again.
Honestly, the above is ridiculous. The law will be very difficult to enforce with existing owners and may be easier with new owners....but that wouldn't be fair to them.

I still think that a big drive of law enforcers regarding noise levels and swift action with a policy of non-toleration would resolve problems more sensibly.

doreen
10-06-2011, 10:57
I am naive but am really struggling with the practicalities of the enforcement of the above should it come to fruition.

Scenario: Our dear Aunty Mary has been ill in the UK. We have an apartment in Tenerife and ask if she and Uncle Joseph would like to stay there for a couple of weeks to recuperate. They are delighted, no rental of course but offer to chip in with the electricity and water bill and cleaning.
Happy flight arrive at the gate of the complex, out of the taxi and a guard, PAID FOR BY THE COMMUNITY stops them at the gate and demands to see they are the owners of the apartment through photo ID. He sends them away!!!!

Then he calls them back....they are elderly and upset and seem to be quiet people. He lets them in. All's well and they begin to relax. That evening the President whose nightly round after work is PAID FOR BY THE COMMUNITY rings the doorbell of each apartment to demand whether the owners or long-term renters are in residence. He finds out that neither Aunty Mary nor Uncle Joseph fit into these categories. He casts them out into the street and puts a denuncia? on us or our apartment so that we can never use it again.
Honestly, the above is ridiculous. The law will be very difficult to enforce with existing owners and may be easier with new owners....but that wouldn't be fair to them.

I still think that a big drive of law enforcers regarding noise levels and swift action with a policy of non-toleration would resolve problems more sensibly.

Margaretta - you imagination is certainly running wild:lol: Aunty Mary will not have any problems being in the category of "family & friends" - just make sure she doesn't overpay for the leccky - and hope she has a speedy recovery :)

doreen
10-06-2011, 10:57
I am naive but am really struggling with the practicalities of the enforcement of the above should it come to fruition.

Scenario: Our dear Aunty Mary has been ill in the UK. We have an apartment in Tenerife and ask if she and Uncle Joseph would like to stay there for a couple of weeks to recuperate. They are delighted, no rental of course but offer to chip in with the electricity and water bill and cleaning.
Happy flight arrive at the gate of the complex, out of the taxi and a guard, PAID FOR BY THE COMMUNITY stops them at the gate and demands to see they are the owners of the apartment through photo ID. He sends them away!!!!

Then he calls them back....they are elderly and upset and seem to be quiet people. He lets them in. All's well and they begin to relax. That evening the President whose nightly round after work is PAID FOR BY THE COMMUNITY rings the doorbell of each apartment to demand whether the owners or long-term renters are in residence. He finds out that neither Aunty Mary nor Uncle Joseph fit into these categories. He casts them out into the street and puts a denuncia? on us or our apartment so that we can never use it again.
Honestly, the above is ridiculous. The law will be very difficult to enforce with existing owners and may be easier with new owners....but that wouldn't be fair to them.

I still think that a big drive of law enforcers regarding noise levels and swift action with a policy of non-toleration would resolve problems more sensibly.

Margaretta - you imagination is certainly running wild:lol: Aunty Mary will not have any problems being in the category of "family & friends" - just make sure she doesn't overpay for the leccky - and hope she has a speedy recovery :)

Tenerife Property
10-06-2011, 11:05
Who needs these kind of problems? I am genuinely interested to see where this is all going so that we can provide the right advice. The sad thing is, a lot of water will have to go under the bridge before everyone knows where they stand and that takes time. In the meantime we have to advise buyers and sellers on a complex by complex basis.

Tom & Sharon
10-06-2011, 11:08
We go to one complex mainly but if we cannot get apartments we want we have another 2 we use. What I want is a clean, peaceful, quiet complex with minium / preferably no children ( been there done that ), lovely clean apartment with all mod cons, large terrace that gets sun all day, we do not want or like to sit by a pool and prefer a terrace to enjoy the sunshine and relax all at reasonable price. As for the Canarian Government do you really think they know what they want why has it taken them 15 years to envoke the law ? they were more than happy to take the taxes from apartment purchases over that period and IMO knew exactly what was going but did nothing to ensure that Estate agents etc made everyone aware of the laws ( Estates agents should be fully regulated in Tenerife another failure by the government )

Yes, estate agents have a lot to answer for. We bought through "the award winners" and some people wanted residential only, and the sales pitch was that then our complex "would be ideal". Others wanted buy to let, and the sales pitch was - you guessed it - our complex "would be ideal". More faces than the Town Hall clock the lot of them!

Redglow
10-06-2011, 11:10
This is all really good stuff, i work internally in an agency, there are certain companies which we have used over the years that go by the books properly... i personally reccomend http://www.prestigeproperty.co.uk/TenerifePropertyForSale/Properties.asp for doing business in Tenerife

Margaretta
10-06-2011, 11:12
Margaretta - you imagination is certainly running wild:lol: Aunty Mary will not have any problems being in the category of "family & friends" - just make sure she doesn't overpay for the leccky - and hope she has a speedy recovery :)

Haha! Great response Doreen.

Soooooo how do I prove that she is a FAMILY member? Should I arm her with a chart showing the family tree?

Mary, Joseph....How do I prove that my non-paying guest, Jesus, is my friend??????:lol::doh: President and guard may think of him as a squatter and if he brings his Apostles....well.....??? Will they be noisy if they have supper?

Angusjim
10-06-2011, 11:16
Haha! Great response Doreen.

Soooooo how do I prove that she is a FAMILY member? Should I arm her with a chart showing the family tree?

Mary, Joseph....How do I prove that my non-paying guest, Jesus, is my friend??????:lol::doh: President and guard may think of him as a squatter and if he brings his Apostles....well.....??? Will they be noisy if they have supper?

Margaretta STOP drinking right now you will only hate yourself when you are sober:crazy:

fonica
10-06-2011, 11:33
As the only apartments that can be rented out are on Tourist complexes where there is an exploitation company(with an office on site) and all rentals have to done through them,there will be control.If you want to put your family into your apartment then they will have be notified.I don't understand why there is any confusion the law is clear and no amount of huffing and puffing will change it now.

Tenerife Property
10-06-2011, 11:37
Yes, estate agents have a lot to answer for. We bought through "the award winners" and some people wanted residential only, and the sales pitch was that then our complex "would be ideal". Others wanted buy to let, and the sales pitch was - you guessed it - our complex "would be ideal". More faces than the Town Hall clock the lot of them!

It is easy to beat up the Estate Agent but perhaps there was a lack of direction at the time. Don't forget it is the law that has caused this problem. I am asking myself whether a good lawyer would have given the right advice here at the time. It is important that an Estate Agent gives the right advice and as Angusjim says; "..IMO knew exactly what was going but did nothing to ensure that Estate agents etc made everyone aware of the laws" As I said it is easy to blame the agent who was probably acting in good faith at the time.

Is anyone really to blame here, apart from the Canarian Government?

Margaretta
10-06-2011, 11:41
Margaretta STOP drinking right now you will only hate yourself when you are sober:crazy:

Haha! ;) Wish that were the reason Jim....it's the chocolate fairy cake and cup of tea that's doing it!:spin:

I am really trying to illustrate the utter confusion of the whole matter. There are people letting long and short term, people who let friends and family stay rent -free and many owned but unused apartments with no community charges paid and sometimes problems e.g. plumbing and the community do not know how to contact the owners. It's a mess.
Most residents, renters, friends and family are probably well-behaved but the minority cause big problems where residents who need a good night's sleep and the peace to live their lives suffer. Transgressors should be swiftly ejected under more successful conditions. Sorry but we don't want to live in a totally holiday-makers complex; we like our Canarian neighbours and President and we want our close friends and family to stay short-term, rent-free without being challenged. If they 'misbehave' I would want the president to let us know immediately and we would take action. If we don't improve the situation then we should take the rap...

It smacks of intrusiveness if i have to tell some rental company at the gate which friends and family are staying and for how long etc. We paid for OUR apartment.

Angusjim
10-06-2011, 11:41
As the only apartments that can be rented out are on Tourist complexes where there is an exploitation company(with an office on site) and all rentals have to done through them,there will be control.If you want to put your family into your apartment then they will have be notified.I don't understand why there is any confusion the law is clear and no amount of huffing and puffing will change it now.

So why are the "tourist police" dragging there heals why are they not just piling in and fining all these VERY bad people maybe the problem is not as easy to sort out as they thought, maybe it is dawning on them how much this is going to cost the local economy at the end of the day it will all come back to MONEY???

BobMac
10-06-2011, 11:44
As the only apartments that can be rented out are on Tourist complexes where there is an exploitation company(with an office on site) and all rentals have to done through them,there will be control.If you want to put your family into your apartment then they will have be notified.I don't understand why there is any confusion the law is clear and no amount of huffing and puffing will change it now.

Brilliant answer.

Why don't they stop p?ssing about, start enforcing the law as it was written and stopping all letting on residential complexes.

Tenerife Property
10-06-2011, 11:48
So why are the "tourist police" dragging there heals why are they not just piling in and fining all these VERY bad people maybe the problem is not as easy to sort out as they thought, maybe it is dawning on them how much this is going to cost the local economy at the end of the day it will all come back to MONEY???

You make a very valid point, this really is a hornets nest, money really is the motive.

CIM
10-06-2011, 11:51
The law is NOT clear! The law has not been enforced for 15 years and they are now attempting to enforce it.
What happens if a couple of owners sell up and the exploitacion company lose their 50%+1? Do they suddenly have to cease trading? What happens to all the bookings? A month later the new owners decide to put their apartments back with the exploitation giving them 50%+1 again - suddenly they are allowed to trade again?

Whats the minimum amount of time you can let out your own apartment on a residential complex?
Whats the minimum amount of time you can let out your own apartment on a touristic complex?
What is deemed as a reasonable contribution to running costs where family and friends are concerned?
Are friends and family even allowed? As according to one interpretation of the law on this thread on the other forum, it would seem they are not!
If 100% of owners on a residential complex decide they are happy to change the status to a touristic one - brilliant. But what if after a month of operation, one owner changes his mind? Again - it all just shuts down and everyone has to cancel their bookings?
What happens if you let your property to someone who wants it for at least 6 months but who decides after two weeks that they are moving out? Have they broken the law? Have you?

This is not clear at all and the more people who offer an answer - the more different answers there seem to be! If it were straightforward and simple the last thread wouldn't have ran to hundreds and hundreds of posts.

Angusjim
10-06-2011, 11:57
The law is NOT clear! The law has not been enforced for 15 years and they are now attempting to enforce it.
What happens if a couple of owners sell up and the exploitacion company lose their 50%+1? Do they suddenly have to cease trading? What happens to all the bookings? A month later the new owners decide to put their apartments back with the exploitation giving them 50%+1 again - suddenly they are allowed to trade again?

Whats the minimum amount of time you can let out your own apartment on a residential complex?
Whats the minimum amount of time you can let out your own apartment on a touristic complex?
What is deemed as a reasonable contribution to running costs where family and friends are concerned?
Are friends and family even allowed? As according to one interpretation of the law on this thread on the other forum, it would seem they are not!
If 100% of owners on a residential complex decide they are happy to change the status to a touristic one - brilliant. But what if after a month of operation, one owner changes his mind? Again - it all just shuts down and everyone has to cancel their bookings?
What happens if you let your property to someone who wants it for at least 6 months but who decides after two weeks that they are moving out? Have they broken the law? Have you?

This is not clear at all and the more people who offer an answer - the more different answers there seem to be! If it were straightforward and simple the last thread wouldn't have ran to hundreds and hundreds of posts.

Well said that man :hat::hat::hat::hat::hat::hat:

fonica
10-06-2011, 12:03
As has been said before, you know where the inspector can be found! For those of us living on residential complexes we are only interested in the part of the law that says that owners can't rent out to tourists!

Angusjim
10-06-2011, 12:15
as has been said before, you know where the inspector can be found! for those of us living on residential complexes we are only interested in the part of the law that says that owners can't rent out to tourists!

Not all of you I know many who are not:whistle: