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poppy123
06-01-2013, 15:16
Hi, can anyone help? Had booked an apartment on Victoria Court and paid deposit after seeing it in owners direct. the owners have now told us its an illegal letting, and have asked us to lie if asked any questions. Surely we are entitled to our deposit back when we cancel.

TOTO 99
06-01-2013, 16:51
Welcome to the forum,

Have you actually asked them this question first?

I don't think they'll take the risk of you reporting them for the sake of a deposit especially if you have proof of the transaction.

Please let us know how you get on.

nelson
06-01-2013, 20:53
Hi, can anyone help? Had booked an apartment on Victoria Court and paid deposit after seeing it in owners direct. the owners have now told us its an illegal letting, and have asked us to lie if asked any questions. Surely we are entitled to our deposit back when we cancel.

What month was your booking for? To be fair most of the apartment ads on that website will be illegal . The ones in legal sites will be let outside the legal agent and the rest will be private owners renting illegally.

Only way to rent a private apartment from a legal private renter is to avoid the Canary Islands altogether

DeedeeTipperary
06-01-2013, 20:57
I did not realise Victoria Court was an illegal let ? We stayed in VC2 last summer and I was hoping to return this summer all going well . I thought it was legal for us to rent it for a couple of weeks :confused:

nelson
06-01-2013, 21:26
I did not realise Victoria Court was an illegal let ? We stayed in VC2 last summer and I was hoping to return this summer all going well . I thought it was legal for us to rent it for a couple of weeks :confused:

Bless you, 99per cent of odirect apartments in the canaries are so called illegal lets. How would you know? The complexes look like normal holiday lets,which indeed they are.its the mad Canarian govt that have started to attack the private renters. Owners direct continue to advertise the illegal lets, you will not find many legal apartment s on their website. Likewise the Canarian govt dare not attack owners direct for fear of alarming tourists like you that their economy fully depends upon. There are said to be 900000 illegal beds in the Canary Islands

KirstyJay
06-01-2013, 21:48
I did not realise Victoria Court was an illegal let ? We stayed in VC2 last summer and I was hoping to return this summer all going well . I thought it was legal for us to rent it for a couple of weeks :confused:I don't believe VC2 is illegal. They have a letting agent. The OP may be talking about VC1

nelson
06-01-2013, 22:41
I don't believe VC2 is illegal. They have a letting agent. The OP may be talking about VC1

Plenty of places have letting agents, but o direct ads are put in by owners who are letting themselves without the agent, that is illegal

tfs1
06-01-2013, 22:46
Only way to rent a private apartment from a legal private renter is to avoid the Canary Islands altogether - WRONG !

Illegal renters are those that do not go through a registered legal letting company on their complex, typically illegal renters do not pay their taxes and other costs to the canarian goverment, or declare their income to the UK tax authorities.

They will be employing people to clean, do linen changes, airport runs etc who themselves do not pay taxes etc, all part of the black economy - part of the reason Spain / Canaries is in such a mess.

I own an apartment on VC1 and can thankfully sleep at night and not have to lie to our renters about lying if the inspectors turnup as we legally rent through our onsite legally registered rental company.

Luckily we do not need to advertise on Owners Direct or any other websites (at great cost) as our onsite company provide more than enough renters and a good return on our investment.

KirstyJay
06-01-2013, 22:51
Plenty of places have letting agents, but o direct ads are put in by owners who are letting themselves without the agent, that is illegalThat may be the case, but the opening post by poppy123 does not state which Victoria Court she is talking about, so it'd be unfair to draw conclusions about other properties or complexes with a similar name based on this individual case... and DeedeeTipperary is assuming a rental on VC2 may be illegal in her post, which may be correct, but also could just as easily be a completely wrong assumption. I just wanted to point that out so she makes enquiries before cancelling what could be a completely legal rental. :)

nelson
06-01-2013, 23:00
That may be the case, but the opening post by poppy123 does not state which Victoria Court she are talking about, so it'd be unfair to draw conclusions about other properties or complexes with a similar name based on this individual case... and DeedeeTipperary is assuming a rental on VC2 may be illegal in her post, which may be correct, but also could just as easily be a completely wrong assumption. I just wanted to point that out so she makes enquiries before cancelling what could be a completely legal rental. :)

If all the tourists realise how many so called illegal lets they have used or booked are in the canaries, well the result would be mass panic. The whole industry is full of so called illegal lets, the islands economy needs them. But if tourists want to avoid them they should keep off owners direct as regards canarys holidays.

9PLUS
06-01-2013, 23:09
poppy12 = nelson


x

tfs1
06-01-2013, 23:11
The whole industry is full of so called illegal lets, the islands economy needs them.

As we all know this is only a story now that the 'inspectors' are actively pursuing 'illegal' owners.

I suggest those that rent the apartments from illegal owners have nothing to fear thermselves apart from having the wind put up them by scared owners.

These owners are still keen to get the 'tax free' money they have been getting for years but know that someone knocking on their apartment door and fear their customers forgetting the 'the owners are my friends' scrip they should be using.

Why should renters have to say anything they paid good money and are on holiday for gods sake !!!!!

We all know of several illegal owners who have been fined 5 figures sums due to their illegal activities.

9PLUS
06-01-2013, 23:11
their economy fully depends upon. There are said to be 900000 illegal beds in the Canary Islands



tis 100000 less than last week then innit


x

- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -


- WRONG !

Illegal renters are those that do not go through a registered legal letting company on their complex, typically illegal renters do not pay their taxes and other costs to the canarian goverment, or declare their income to the UK tax authorities.

They will be employing people to clean, do linen changes, airport runs etc who themselves do not pay taxes etc, all part of the black economy - part of the reason Spain / Canaries is in such a mess.

I own an apartment on VC1 and can thankfully sleep at night and not have to lie to our renters about lying if the inspectors turnup as we legally rent through our onsite legally registered rental company.

Luckily we do not need to advertise on Owners Direct or any other websites (at great cost) as our onsite company provide more than enough renters and a good return on our investment.



Another happy legal apartment investor in Tenerife

tfs1
06-01-2013, 23:26
Another happy legal apartment investor in Tenerife

9plus - totally correct.

Unlike many others I know who are classed as illegal renters I don't have to constantly watch my back, see whos looking at our place, lie about who's staying.

Then there are their cleaners who also watch their backs and carry linen, cleaning stuff in Mercadona shopping bags to mask what they are doing and try and look like tourists - sad I know but what a way to live !

nelson
07-01-2013, 08:42
It's just crazy that it has come to this. Private renters telling customers to lie because actually you have booked your holiday in an illegal apartment . Clearly not all the punters are going to sit easy with that.

The fact remains the islands have hundreds of thousands of these apartment s and the tourists who use them are largely unaware that there is any reason not to.

What is needed is legalisation of these well established places. Make them pay an annual permit charge, get them paying some tax.

The tourists don't want to feel like criminals,and the islands economy needs all the tourists.

junglejim
07-01-2013, 09:07
9plus - totally correct.

Unlike many others I know who are classed as illegal renters I don't have to constantly watch my back, see whos looking at our place, lie about who's staying.

Then there are their cleaners who also watch their backs and carry linen, cleaning stuff in Mercadona shopping bags to mask what they are doing and try and look like tourists - sad I know but what a way to live !
What a snob you are , sitting on your morally high pedestal !
A lot of people bought apartments to let , unaware of the issues thanks to unscrupulous Estate Agents who didn't bother about a care of duty to inform their clients of the consequences.
Comparing the cleaners who are employed as some furtive underclass ,like the Lookie Lookie men, when they are trying to earn a living !- you don't know what their fiscal situation is !
The Canarian Government turned a blind eye to the situation for over a decade and were happy to take the backhanders and operate the corrupt and unfair practices until the bottom fell out of their world .
Now that they are making it almost impossible for people to convert to legal status , they are going to drive this part of market underground like a lot of their other black market/money. How many legal long term renters of property only take cash ?
The sooner they close off the "illegal" letting market , the sooner these Islands will be on their knees and we'll see what happens to tourism here!

TOTO 99
07-01-2013, 09:15
I think, to bring this back on track a bit, the OP should be made fully aware that even if the apartment is an illegal let, she, as the holidaymaker is doing nothing illegal by staying there.
The owner is the one risking a fine.
If there's a knock at the door, just tell the truth. You will hear no more beyond that.

nelson
07-01-2013, 09:19
The islands economy needs the income and spending from the private apartment tourists. The fact that owners direct continues to advertise illegal apartments is wrong and unfair to the clients. If the canary govt will not legalise the private renters , then owners direct should stop putting adverts online for illegal ads.

If the govt is serious about stopping private renting then proper. Checks should be made at the airport, if the tourist arrives to stay illegal either he re books legal or put him on the next plane home.

Only in the canaries.

tfs1
07-01-2013, 10:14
TOTO 99. I also agree we need to get this thread back on track, some of the emotive talk from recent posts doesn't help honest discussion.

junglejim
07-01-2013, 10:32
TOTO 99. I also agree we need to get this thread back on track, some of the emotive talk from recent posts doesn't help honest discussion.

Wow! Just WOW!

9PLUS
07-01-2013, 11:30
If the govt is serious about stopping private renting then proper. Checks should be made at the airport, if the tourist arrives to stay illegal either he re books legal or put him on the next plane home.




Seems like a lot of wasted man hours there nelson, it's easier to enforce the Law and fine the illegal renters for breaking the Law if not they run the chance of being fined again.


In the end the tourism industry in the Canary Islands will be fully regulated so have a plan-b prepared if i was you.

andy pandy
07-01-2013, 11:51
We rented an apartment last year. We were asked by the owner to say we were friends if ANYONE asked. No-one did but we know that she doesn't advertise on websites now and what she said was it was far too expensive to advertise now. She had 2 apartments and she SOLD one while we were there. If tourism slows down or stops where will the Canaries be?

9PLUS
07-01-2013, 12:02
Ok great she was able to sell one and more than likely the other, whats the problem ?

She was breaking the Law.

You arrive in Tenerife and the owner meets you and tells you "hey man if some guys come to the door with paper work just say you are my friend"

Blimey what a bloody mess

TOTO 99
07-01-2013, 12:06
Ok great she was able to sell one and more than likely the other, whats the problem ?

She was breaking the Law.

You arrive in Tenerife and the owner meets you and tells you "hey man if some guys come to the door with paper work just say you are my friend"

Blimey what a bloody mess

I agree, it is a bloody mess.

But it's what you have to do if you want to stay where you want to stay.....

fonica
07-01-2013, 12:23
It's just crazy that it has come to this. Private renters telling customers to lie because actually you have booked your holiday in an illegal apartment . Clearly not all the punters are going to sit easy with that.

The fact remains the islands have hundreds of thousands of these apartment s and the tourists who use them are largely unaware that there is any reason not to.

What is needed is legalisation of these well established places. Make them pay an annual permit charge, get them paying some tax.

The tourists don't want to feel like criminals,and the islands economy needs all the tourists.
So they can rent apartments on legal complexes from legal agents who have offices on site and who are accountable to the Tourist Board.There will never be a law that allows residential complexes to rent to tourists on short term rentals.Instead of scaring potential tourists who post on the forum you could point them in the direction of legal complexes where they can enjoy holidays without having to lie to protect illegal rental owners. If you are here for long enough you will see the day when there if fully legal tourism on the island with much more protection for the tourists and where owners pay their dues to the government and use legal local workers to look after their properties.I know this isn't what you want to hear but you could always move to Portugal (if you can sell your apartments after all the scaremongering you have done)

9PLUS
07-01-2013, 12:23
Can we get our deposit refunded for an illegal letting?



You're gonna have to rely on the goodwill of your illegal holiday let owner/agent to recuperate that cash, or make a denuncia for fraudulent selling of a prohibited service, inform the owners what you are going to do.

You'll more than likely get your deposit back if they are in fact operating illegal and you can prove that a deposit was paid for that means.

Or try reclaiming on your card if that is the way you paid.


Denuncias can be made at the national Police station and Consejeria de Turismo (Tourism board)

Consejeria de Turismo
Dirección General de Ordenación y Promoción Turística
Servicios de Acción Turística, Inspección y Sanciones e Infraestructura Turística
Edif. Duque de Santa Elena – Planta 1ª
C/ La Marina, 19-21
38071 Santa Cruz de Tenerife
Telf: 0034 922 299 330 or 0034 922 473 500

Pooh
07-01-2013, 13:20
First, just ask the owner for a refund, stating the reason.
If they refuse, you could try the route suggested by 9plus.

As a side note, I really don't understand the attitude where some people expect Tenerife to be a place where no rules or regulations have to be followed, and no taxes paid, when no one would expect the same in UK?

KirstyJay
07-01-2013, 13:26
Can I remind everyone that the topic of this thread is this :


Hi, can anyone help? Had booked an apartment on Victoria Court and paid deposit after seeing it in owners direct. the owners have now told us its an illegal letting, and have asked us to lie if asked any questions. Surely we are entitled to our deposit back when we cancel.

There is a whole other thread (http://www.tenerifeforum.org/tenerife-forum/showthread.php?t=23) to discuss the pros and cons of the illegal letting laws ;)

BobMac
07-01-2013, 15:23
Can I remind everyone that the topic of this thread is this :



There is a whole other thread (http://www.tenerifeforum.org/tenerife-forum/showthread.php?t=23) to discuss the pros and cons of the illegal letting laws ;)

Why don't you just move all the posts which are off topic to the main illegal letting thread ?? Every thread which starts up regarding letting property seems to get hijacked by the same few people.

fixer
07-01-2013, 16:20
Better just shut down owners direct!then what makes everybodythink there complex is legal? Victoria court 1 has no 24 hr reception no life gaurd (pool fenced in)no fire protection it does have a co-ownership reception and a onsite agent is it legal i dont know Victoria crt 2 i believe has a onsite agent the owner is probably not getting the onsite agent to look after the apartment. cant find victoria crt on the legal apartment web site here http://www.arona.travel/portal/turismo/lloc_d10_v6.jsp?codMenu=1105&codMenuPN=1088&codMenuSN=1098&numeroPagina=5

junglejim
07-01-2013, 16:27
First, just ask the owner for a refund, stating the reason.
If they refuse, you could try the route suggested by 9plus.

As a side note, I really don't understand the attitude where some people expect Tenerife to be a place where no rules or regulations have to be followed, and no taxes paid, when no one would expect the same in UK?
So you are legally advertising rebroadcasting Uk TV in Tenerife ? WOW just WOW !

nelson
07-01-2013, 18:18
Why don't you just move all the posts which are off topic to the main illegal letting thread ?? Every thread which starts up regarding letting property seems to get hijacked by the same few people.

its not about hyjacking other threads when the illegal letting comes up. Those of us with an interest in the illegal letting issue are naturally amused when issues start on other threads. We often see people asking for accomodation on other threads, often quoting the top illegal complex's or recommending searching owners direct. these people speak as if the whole thing is quite normal , which of course it would be in any other context except the mad canaries.

The poster who started this thread will have no idea how many illegal complex's are all over the canaries and especially pdla/ los cristo. She is clearly of the opinion that she wants no part of the, I am a friend malarky, but it will amaze her as to how many illegal lets are advertised on owners direct. Perhaps we in the anti crackdown camp have laboured the point and ended up down the illegal thread route. It is quite important though, I think, that more and more tourists become more aware of what is happening here in the canaries with this crackdown. It is also important for tourists to be aware of the illegality of much of the canary apartments on owners direct. Owners direct is adeing and abetting the law breakers, that can not be right when people using their web site are paying deposits for their annual holidays only to discover that they have been rented an illegal apartment.

The poster on hear should take the matter up with Owners Direct. This matter will never be properly resolved if people try to sweep it under the carpet. Given the insanity of the canarian govts position, in ever wanting to attack the massive apartment renting industry in the first place, it was inevitable that they would cause a lot of bad publicity for the canary islands. That is their choice and insansity and the holidaymaker who started this thread is the innocent victim.

BobMac
07-01-2013, 18:37
its not about hyjacking other threads when the illegal letting comes up. Those of us with an interest in the illegal letting issue are naturally amused when issues start on other threads. We often see people asking for accomodation on other threads, often quoting the top illegal complex's or recommending searching owners direct. these people speak as if the whole thing is quite normal , which of course it would be in any other context except the mad canaries.

The poster who started this thread will have no idea how many illegal complex's are all over the canaries and especially pdla/ los cristo. She is clearly of the opinion that she wants no part of the, I am a friend malarky, but it will amaze her as to how many illegal lets are advertised on owners direct. Perhaps we in the anti crackdown camp have laboured the point and ended up down the illegal thread route. It is quite important though, I think, that more and more tourists become more aware of what is happening here in the canaries with this crackdown. It is also important for tourists to be aware of the illegality of much of the canary apartments on owners direct. Owners direct is adeing and abetting the law breakers, that can not be right when people using their web site are paying deposits for their annual holidays only to discover that they have been rented an illegal apartment.

The poster on hear should take the matter up with Owners Direct. This matter will never be properly resolved if people try to sweep it under the carpet. Given the insanity of the canarian govts position, in ever wanting to attack the massive apartment renting industry in the first place, it was inevitable that they would cause a lot of bad publicity for the canary islands. That is their choice and insansity and the holidaymaker who started this thread is the innocent victim.

If you read the title of this thread, the OP simply wanted to know if they could get their deposit back after discovering they were going to be in an illegal let.

I doubt if they are even interested in the Illegal Letting debate which is running on another thread or how many illegal lets there are in the Canaries.

Posts like yours on this thread have nothing to do with the thread subject.

Balcony
07-01-2013, 18:54
If the O/P is truly unhappy at having rented him/herself an 'illegal' apartment then yes he/she is entitled to a refund. The renter has been misled into paying money and after the event being informed that the let was illegal. That is FRAUD. A straight-forward request for a refund should be made within 7 days. There is not need to add the thread of denuncia, unless a second request is necessary.

If anything, the advert on-line should have clearly stated that the apartment was on a site where letting short term to tourists was not allowed. Some hope, eh?

The problem for the majority of 'private renters' is that many are simply not aware of this legal distinction (much less care) and there's no information, or warning given to them when they are seeking an apartment on line. Many may just be continuing a rental arrangement that has gone on for years and would an owner suddenly wish to tell them the let is illegal?

But here's a thought. What if, having been informed the let is illegal the renter goes ahead with the rental? Is he not then becoming complicit in defrauding the Govt? It's highly unlikely any action would be taken, but it's just a thought.

Ecky Thump
07-01-2013, 19:01
If anything, the advert on-line should have clearly stated that the apartment was on a site where letting short term to tourists was not allowed. Some hope, eh?


Or the adverts that adorn the UK supermarkets, Gumtree, word of mouth, eBay, the list could go on.

Balcony
07-01-2013, 19:05
Does this law apply to all of the Canary islands, or just Tenerife?

junglejim
07-01-2013, 19:17
If the O/P is truly unhappy at having rented him/herself an 'illegal' apartment then yes he/she is entitled to a refund. The renter has been misled into paying money and after the event being informed that the let was illegal. That is FRAUD. A straight-forward request for a refund should be made within 7 days. There is not need to add the thread of denuncia, unless a second request is necessary.

If anything, the advert on-line should have clearly stated that the apartment was on a site where letting short term to tourists was not allowed. Some hope, eh?

The problem for the majority of 'private renters' is that many are simply not aware of this legal distinction (much less care) and there's no information, or warning given to them when they are seeking an apartment on line. Many may just be continuing a rental arrangement that has gone on for years and would an owner suddenly wish to tell them the let is illegal?

But here's a thought. What if, having been informed the let is illegal the renter goes ahead with the rental? Is he not then becoming complicit in defrauding the Govt? It's highly unlikely any action would be taken, but it's just a thought.
So there should be no problem in getting money back from Maesro then - they were legal too! My @rse!

Pooh
07-01-2013, 19:40
So you are legally advertising rebroadcasting Uk TV in Tenerife ? WOW just WOW !

We're not rebroadcasting anything. We provide a VPN service, which is completely legal, both here and in UK.
Neither us nor people using the service are braking any laws or regulations.
But any discussion about that is off topic for this thread.

poppy123
07-01-2013, 19:45
just to update you that the owners have agreed to refunding our deposit, it seems they don't to hand over control to a letting agent. Have booked at Tenerife Sur, all perfectly legal!

Albatros
07-01-2013, 19:49
Where does all of this end?

Do I get a refund if I discover I have been in a pub or restaurant that has no license, is not paying the correct taxes, has illegal employees etc.? How do I even know?

How about getting a refund if the apartment has no fire extinguisher or even instructions in case of fire? (legal or otherwise)

Its a minefield out there for the consumer. :crazy:

viva regulación

fixer
07-01-2013, 19:54
So there should be no problem in getting money back from Maesro then - they were legal too! My @rse!

And left a few without accommodation its probably not possable for anyone letting accommodation from outside Tenerife to be completley legal

junglejim
07-01-2013, 20:48
We're not rebroadcasting anything. We provide a VPN service, which is completely legal, both here and in UK.
Neither us nor people using the service are braking any laws or regulations.
But any discussion about that is off topic for this thread.
Just think you better check Bbc's legal guidelines!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/terms/business.shtml#2

9PLUS
07-01-2013, 20:52
Just think you better check Bbc's legal guidelines!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/terms/business.shtml#2



A European directive overrides them yeah ?

nelson
07-01-2013, 20:55
Does this law apply to all of the Canary islands, or just Tenerife?

The law is for all the Canary Islands except la Palma . On la Palma most private lets are owned by Spanish local govt workers,licences have been issued on la Palma to allow private letting .

Mawkin
07-01-2013, 21:03
just to update you that the owners have agreed to refunding our deposit, it seems they don't to hand over control to a letting agent. Have booked at Tenerife Sur, all perfectly legal!

Nice to see you had the result you wanted in your case its a pity the a so called legal company has not done the same and not done a runner.

Loaded
07-01-2013, 21:31
This story smells a little staged....

Pooh
07-01-2013, 21:53
Just think you better check Bbc's legal guidelines!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/terms/business.shtml#2

Still off topic, but none of that applies. We do not deal with BBC or any of the other broadcasting companies in any way.
That VPN can be used to access the online broadcasts made by those companies doesn't make selling VPN services in itself illegal. Most of the VPN accounts our company sell are used for entirely different purposes, but we don't monitor what the subscribers do with it. This specific brand (our smallest VPN brand) may suggest a specific type of use, but that doesn't really mean anything. The laws applicable in this case are the ones in Spain and Canary Islands, and EC law.

cainaries
07-01-2013, 23:22
The law is for all the Canary Islands except la Palma . On la Palma most private lets are owned by Spanish local govt workers,licences have been issued on la Palma to allow private letting .

Not quite true, nelson, though I might have given you that impression in a PM in which case I apologise. La Palma is 'ruled' by Tenerife so same laws would apply if the island had the same type of accommodation (complexes) which it doesn't. However, I still don't know if the law applies only to the Province of Tenerife or if it also applies to the Province of Gran Canaria. I've asked this before on the forum and never got an answer.

nelson
08-01-2013, 09:12
Not quite true, nelson, though I might have given you that impression in a PM in which case I apologise. La Palma is 'ruled' by Tenerife so same laws would apply if the island had the same type of accommodation (complexes) which it doesn't. However, I still don't know if the law applies only to the Province of Tenerife or if it also applies to the Province of Gran Canaria. I've asked this before on the forum and never got an answer.

Yes I was writing about the la Palma licences in an ironic sense. The properties are stand alone and rural, but of course I can't see why owners in a complex have to be thrown together to rent under an agent.

I think the law is canary island wide.

9PLUS
08-01-2013, 10:37
poppy12 = nelson


x




Yeah.........

cainaries
08-01-2013, 15:00
Yes I was writing about the la Palma licences in an ironic sense. The properties are stand alone and rural, but of course I can't see why owners in a complex have to be thrown together to rent under an agent.

I think the law is canary island wide.

Always difficult to identify 'irony' on this Forum!

fonica
08-01-2013, 15:14
Yes I was writing about the la Palma licences in an ironic sense. The properties are stand alone and rural, but of course I can't see why owners in a complex have to be thrown together to rent under an agent.

I think the law is canary island wide.

The law on rural properties is different from apartments on residential complexes.There are many "casas rurales" legally rented to tourists in Tenerife.They still have to be registered but under different rulings.

ofimart
08-01-2013, 18:22
You're gonna have to rely on the goodwill of your illegal holiday let owner/agent to recuperate that cash, or make a denuncia for fraudulent selling of a prohibited service, inform the owners what you are going to do.

You'll more than likely get your deposit back if they are in fact operating illegal and you can prove that a deposit was paid for that means.

Or try reclaiming on your card if that is the way you paid.


Denuncias can be made at the national Police station and Consejeria de Turismo (Tourism board)

Consejeria de Turismo
Dirección General de Ordenación y Promoción Turística
Servicios de Acción Turística, Inspección y Sanciones e Infraestructura Turística
Edif. Duque de Santa Elena – Planta 1ª
C/ La Marina, 19-21
38071 Santa Cruz de Tenerife
Telf: 0034 922 299 330 or 0034 922 473 500



9 plus, yours is a very informative reply giving the address and phone number to make a complaint to the right people which I think is very important! I have never taken much interest in illegal renters because we chose to live away from tourist areas and it doesn't affect us . Our neigbours are a National policeman , local policeman , a teacher , a bank manageress, shop owner and hotel workers (and us), in other words all very normal and 100% residential which means we can function and work and live normally . Our local sights are local schools , a police station , mercadonna , dino, the town hall ,health centre, post office , all very normal day to day living kind of things , nothing touristy here and no reason on earth why any one would wish to spend a holiday here .
So what has all this got to do with us , we chose very carefully where to live years ago.

We are shocked to say that we have discovered by accident one of our neighbours, (Spanish and speaks no English), who normally rents his house long term has now taken to renting out to holiday makers at over 400€ a week instead of the usual long term rent he was getting of 700€ a month . We have of course taken the necessary steps of reporting this as we are all worried we are 1) not touristic and have no insurance etc for this if there were any accidents. 2) do not want holiday makers disturbing us.

He is advertising on an English and Spanish website so the evidence is there for the authorities to see quite clearly.
The point I am trying to make is this is something I NEVER dreamed would happen where we live but I guess there are so many vacant properties these days and in the past he would have rented out very easily to a long term renter , these days maybe there is too much choice so he can make much more money with holiday lets.

We can't understand why people would want to holiday where we live , there is nothing to do ,we're up in the hills where it is cloudy more often than not yet it would appear from this website he advertises on his calender is fully booked !
I wonder if this will become more widespead in residential areas with the crisis pushing people to think of more ways to earn money despite the laws.
Jacquie.

nelson
08-01-2013, 23:16
9 plus, yours is a very informative reply giving the address and phone number to make a complaint to the right people which I think is very important! I have never taken much interest in illegal renters because we chose to live away from tourist areas and it doesn't affect us . Our neigbours are a National policeman , local policeman , a teacher , a bank manageress, shop owner and hotel workers (and us), in other words all very normal and 100% residential which means we can function and work and live normally . Our local sights are local schools , a police station , mercadonna , dino, the town hall ,health centre, post office , all very normal day to day living kind of things , nothing touristy here and no reason on earth why any one would wish to spend a holiday here .
So what has all this got to do with us , we chose very carefully where to live years ago.

We are shocked to say that we have discovered by accident one of our neighbours, (Spanish and speaks no English), who normally rents his house long term has now taken to renting out to holiday makers at over 400€ a week instead of the usual long term rent he was getting of 700€ a month . We have of course taken the necessary steps of reporting this as we are all worried we are 1) not touristic and have no insurance etc for this if there were any accidents. 2) do not want holiday makers disturbing us.




He is advertising on an English and Spanish website so the evidence is there for the authorities to see quite clearly.
The point I am trying to make is this is something I NEVER dreamed would happen where we live but I guess there are so many vacant properties these days and in the past he would have rented out very easily to a long term renter , these days maybe there is too much choice so he can make much more money with holiday lets.

We can't understand why people would want to holiday where we live , there is nothing to do ,we're up in the hills where it is cloudy more often than not yet it would appear from this website he advertises on his calender is fully booked !
I wonder if this will become more widespead in residential areas with the crisis pushing people to think of more ways to earn money despite the laws.
Jacquie.

The govt do licence rural stand alone properties.the hotel mafia don't object to that,it does not feel threatening to them commercially .you might end up with the neighbour legally renting.you might have to consider moving further up the mountain, but I would have thought that the rural tourists would not be the sort of people to cause anti social disturbance issues

cainaries
08-01-2013, 23:31
The govt do licence rural stand alone properties.the hotel mafia don't object to that,it does not feel threatening to them commercially .you might end up with the neighbour legally renting.you might have to consider moving further up the mountain, but I would have thought that the rural tourists would not be the sort of people to cause anti social disturbance issues

And a neighbour renting would surely have no effect whatsoever on someone else's insurance? Plenty of tourists want the rural ideal.

fonica
09-01-2013, 06:37
The govt do licence rural stand alone properties.the hotel mafia don't object to that,it does not feel threatening to them commercially .you might end up with the neighbour leglly renting.you might have to consider moving furthNo er up the mountain, but I would have thought that the rural tourists would not be the sort of people to cause anti social disturbance issues

Casas rurales are not found on complexes so this illegal rentalwill not rental will be just that, although to be fair it's more likely to be someone trying to cover his mortgage than someone who bought on a resdential complex with the sole intention of breaking the law.

Muppet
09-01-2013, 10:15
The point about insurance is an important one.

Insurance companies will always go to their small print in the event of a claim, indeed they employ huge departments to investigate claims, especially significant ones. So, if for example a "client" staying in an apartment were to seriously injur themselves - walking into closed patio doors, slipping up and so on and subsequently tries to claim against you as the landlord, there is a significant risk that your policy might not cover the claim if it were to be found that the "guest" were staying in your apartment "illegally" in the eyes of the law.

The same is true of "airport runs" where if your car was involved in an accident and you were collecting "guests" as part of your "service" many insurance you may well find that your cover does not extend to fare paying passengers.

In terms of a complex where letting is against the law and there were an accident involving a "guest" your community liability insurance policy would potentially not cover the "guest"

It is a grey area, and a potentially expensive one should claims be attempted, but well worthy of note.

TOTO 99
09-01-2013, 10:49
I think what Ofimart is getting at is will his street end up full of undesirables?

If the neighbour rents to holidaymakers he will be breaking the law and can be reported. I personally think that the type of people he would get in wouldn't be the rowdy types.

On the other hand he could quite legally long let to a gang of party animals! Might be better to see how it pans out before reporting him..

nelson
09-01-2013, 11:14
I think what Ofimart is getting at is will his street end up full of undesirables?

If the neighbour rents to holidaymakers he will be breaking the law and can be reported. I personally think that the type of people he would get in wouldn't be the rowdy types.

On the other hand he could quite legally long let to a gang of party animals! Might be better to see how it pans out before reporting him..

Yes toto they are expecting beer monsters etc, it could happen, if the govt wipes out the resort renting industry ,people might buy a legal casa rurally.then with an ad on illegal owners direct they might get the old resort punters back.at first a mini bus down the mountain to the resort nightlife may be laid on, but before long the local bar might take advantage of the tourists and evolve into a true resort bar, British breakfasts and elvis on Monday.more ketchup than salsa.

The first rural s might be like the pioneer swedes of Los cristo, then look what has happened.higher up the mountain may be the best plan

ofimart
09-01-2013, 12:37
And a neighbour renting would surely have no effect whatsoever on someone else's insurance? Plenty of tourists want the rural ideal.

We are a community of owners , therefore it does affect our community and is wholly illegal . I agree we probably would not get the rowdy types but there was a complaint by a neighbour recently that the latest renters had hung their washing out on a makeshift washing line hanging from a toldos which looks unsightly, all these things have to be taken in to consideration I feel. Although it does not directly affect us I do respect my neighbours near by this property that they do not want people coming and going . Like us they have normal jobs and have chosen to live in a non touristic place, our administartor has taken it very serioulsy and denounced but we will have to wait and see how long they take to investigate this matter in the proper manner.

Jacquie .

nelson
09-01-2013, 13:12
We are a community of owners , therefore it does affect our community and is wholly illegal . I agree we probably would not get the rowdy types but there was a complaint by a neighbour recently that the latest renters had hung their washing out on a makeshift washing line hanging from a toldos which looks unsightly, all these things have to be taken in to consideration I feel. Although it does not directly affect us I do respect my neighbours near by this property that they do not want people coming and going . Like us they have normal jobs and have chosen to live in a non touristic place, our administartor has taken it very serioulsy and denounced but we will have to wait and see how long they take to investigate this matter in the proper manner.

Jacquie .

Hanging a makeshift washing line up, we'll not as bad as a place full of beermonsters but hey, serious stuff.

Lets hope the owner gets an 18000 euro fine and the bank reposes his apartment.

That. Should send a clear message to any more makeshift washing line undesirables

Loaded
09-01-2013, 15:34
Hanging a makeshift washing line up, we'll not as bad as a place full of beermonsters but hey, serious stuff.

Lets hope the owner gets an 18000 euro fine and the bank reposes his apartment.

That. Should send a clear message to any more makeshift washing line undesirables

The washing line is bang out of order - there are other ways to dry your clothes, maidens, tumble driers - for example I know of a Portuguese model....

cainaries
09-01-2013, 15:40
We are a community of owners , therefore it does affect our community and is wholly illegal . I agree we probably would not get the rowdy types but there was a complaint by a neighbour recently that the latest renters had hung their washing out on a makeshift washing line hanging from a toldos which looks unsightly, all these things have to be taken in to consideration I feel. Although it does not directly affect us I do respect my neighbours near by this property that they do not want people coming and going . Like us they have normal jobs and have chosen to live in a non touristic place, our administartor has taken it very serioulsy and denounced but we will have to wait and see how long they take to investigate this matter in the proper manner.

Jacquie .

I'm sorry I jumped the gun there. I see your point now. Presumably these are not old Canarian village houses which is what I had assumed.

ofimart
09-01-2013, 16:08
I'm sorry I jumped the gun there. I see your point now. Presumably these are not old Canarian village houses which is what I had assumed.

No need to apologise Cainaries , my main point really was we are mostly concerned if there is an accident and we are not insured for such an incident by not being registered touristic. We asked our administrator to speak with the owner but he decided to denounce as it is an illegal practice that puts us all at risk. It is not about the washing !, that comment was ridiculous , it is the same as driving a car without insurance and knocking some one over , you'd have to face up to whatever the law threw at you wouldn't you ?

Jacquie.

nelson
09-01-2013, 18:52
The washing line is bang out of order - there are other ways to dry your clothes, maidens, tumble driers - for example I know of a Portuguese model....

the illegal renter is acting more like a poorly equipped sole agent apartment in any case. all us over equiped private rented apartments normally have automatic washing machines and multiple washing hangers, the self standing type which you put on your balconies.

having said that I will not condone the makeshift washing line people reported on this thread. There is the welfare of the rest of the community of owners to consider here , they have all bought on a residential complex half way up tiede, well away from the tourist trap , and they did not expect to be exposed to this type of illegal activity.

Owners direct again bares the greater responsibility for this, it should not take on illegal renters in the canary islands, who are so iresponsible as to allow tourists to stay without the proper facilities, ie, some form of recognised washing line. The result, this whole complex of Victor Medrew/ Hyacynith Bucket residents being subjected to a makeshift washing line.

This is why owners direct should be stopped and the canary govts crackdown is fully justified.

BobMac
09-01-2013, 18:53
the illegal renter is acting more like a poorly equipped sole agent apartment in any case. all us over equiped private rented apartments normally have automatic washing machines and multiple washing hangers, the self standing type which you put on your balconies.

having said that I will not condone the makeshift washing line people reported on this thread. There is the welfare of the rest of the community of owners to consider here , they have all bought on a residential complex half way up tiede, well away from the tourist trap , and they did not expect to be exposed to this type of illegal activity.

Owners direct again bares the greater responsibility for this, it should not take on illegal renters in the canary islands, who are so iresponsible as to allow tourists to stay without the proper facilities, ie, some form of recognised washing line. The result, this whole complex of Victor Medrew/ Hyacynith Bucket residents being subjected to a makeshift washing line.

This is why owners direct should be stopped and the canary govts crackdown is fully justified.

Attempts at humour - has someone hijacked Nelson's user ID ??

Muppet
09-01-2013, 18:57
Attempts at humour - has someone hijacked Nelson's user ID ??


Call that humour ?? Sadly it won't wash with me ........

Loaded
09-01-2013, 20:48
Don't mention the war....

judith
11-01-2013, 20:14
Hi, can anyone help? Had booked an apartment on Victoria Court and paid deposit after seeing it in owners direct. the owners have now told us its an illegal letting, and have asked us to lie if asked any questions. Surely we are entitled to our deposit back when we cancel.

victoria court is not residential it is tourist you have been wronly informed ,

delderek
11-01-2013, 20:16
victoria court is not residential it is tourist you have been wronly informed ,

Unless it is being let without using the Sole agent, it is then an illegal let!

Fivepence
11-01-2013, 20:21
victoria court is not residential it is tourist you have been wronly informed ,

:welcome: to the forum Judith.

tfs1
11-01-2013, 21:24
Unless it is being let without using the Sole agent, it is then an illegal let!

Totally correct. Victoria Court 1 and 2 both have tourist licenses since the year dot ! but unless you rent an apartment on either complex through the 'offical' 'sole' agent you are renting illegally.

The sole agent will, by law, ensure the apartment is safe ie get an verified annual check on the apartment fire extinguisher.

Not very important I hear you say until you need to use it to maybe save your life and find it doesn't work because the owner hasn't bothered to pay for the check or replaced it as its years past its effective 'use by' date.

The sole agent ensures 'their' owners pay Canarian taxes and are legal.

People should remember the sole agent has effective 24x7 callout, effective backup in the event of a problem, ie other apartments available in the event yours has a problem.

In the distant past we have rented directly and found the backup to be poor and a 'will pop around sometime tomorrow' atttitude.

A good sole agent will try and ensure apartment standards are maintained to a good level - if an apartment needs work they can tell the owner to update items etc or they wont rent it.

nelson
11-01-2013, 22:41
Totally correct. Victoria Court 1 and 2 both have tourist licenses since the year dot ! but unless you rent an apartment on either complex through the 'offical' 'sole' agent you are renting illegally.

The sole agent will, by law, ensure the apartment is safe ie get an verified annual check on the apartment fire extinguisher.

Not very important I hear you say until you need to use it to maybe save your life and find it doesn't work because the owner hasn't bothered to pay for the check or replaced it as its years past its effective 'use by' date.

The sole agent ensures 'their' owners pay Canarian taxes and are legal.

People should remember the sole agent has effective 24x7 callout, effective backup in the event of a problem, ie other apartments available in the event yours has a problem.

In the distant past we have rented directly and found the backup to be poor and a 'will pop around sometime tomorrow' atttitude.

A good sole agent will try and ensure apartment standards are maintained to a good level - if an apartment needs work they can tell the owner to update items etc or they wont rent it.

There are many hopeless sole agents who let under equipped apartments,even removing owners better furnishings to dumb down the standard.the sole agent system is no guarantee of a better accommodation ,and the many private apartments are of an incredible high standard of comfort and furnishings.

tfs1
11-01-2013, 22:54
Im sure you are correct but I'm talking about a specific location where I have no experience of this happening. No one has removed any of my furnishings to dumb down standards.

I have also seen private apartmants that are of a low standard.

ps you will probably gather Im happy with our agent, we are legal and can sleep at night (must get off my pedastal and move down from the morally high ground!)

We pay our local taxes and declare income in the UK - still make a bit of profit, dont need to worry about the inspectors and neither do those renting our apartmnt need to look over their shoulders.

nelson
11-01-2013, 23:32
Im sure you are correct but I'm talking about a specific location where I have no experience of this happening. No one has removed any of my furnishings to dumb down standards.

I have also seen private apartmants that are of a low standard.

ps you will probably gather Im happy with our agent, we are legal and can sleep at night (must get off my pedastal and move down from the morally high ground!)

We pay our local taxes and declare income in the UK - still make a bit of profit, dont need to worry about the inspectors and neither do those renting our apartmnt need to look over their shoulders.

You are indeed lucky and it's good that you are legal and have no issues with your sole agent. There are many renting owners in the tourist zones who make a vital contribution to the Canarian economy who are being attacked at the moment. They deserve to be legal and would be happy to pay tax,but they would not need a sole agent to be involved.

Albatros
12-01-2013, 00:12
I think the use of agents or not should be separated from the application of quality and standards.

I have used both agents and private individuals and have had a mixed bag on quality. I have never ever had a fire extinguisher in any apartment on Tenerife. Now that is criminally lax regulation and IMO.

nelson
12-01-2013, 10:25
I think the use of agents or not should be separated from the application of quality and standards.

I have used both agents and private individuals and have had a mixed bag on quality. I have never ever had a fire extinguisher in any apartment on Tenerife. Now that is criminally lax regulation and IMO.

I think you are right, standards are a mixed bag either way, the concept of monopoly sole agents being fundamental to letting holiday apartments in the canaries, is clearly absurd.

9PLUS
12-01-2013, 11:32
This is what you need to do in the Canaries like it or not.

Rochelle
12-01-2013, 13:43
Normally if you have to cancel then you wouldn't expect to get a deposit back, but as it is them cancelling they should refund it. As above, I wouldn't think they want to get into any wrangles with deposits etc if they are breaking the law.

Ask then for it politely and see how it goes, but under no circumstances lie on their behalf about anything !!!

Hope you get on OK.