Request for Advice on Expat demographics

[clivey]

Hi Again Folks. Some advice needed from you experts.

We intend to move to the island when our house is sold so hopefully not too long left to wait. We are intending on renting for 6 months and if we still love it Buy an apartment.

It`s our intention to then operate a small business in the service sector with more or less no Capital outlay or selling involved. We will be more or less financially independent but we would like to have some income to protect our savings.

This is what the crux is. Both me and my Mrs would probably prefer to be in or Near PDLC but really need to be close to a decent population of Expats as our small business plan will be counting on them as the main customer base . We will be mobile but would prefer not to have to travel too far to our clients So if it has to be South we`d like advice.


Also we were wondering about rental and buying prices comparison between the areas, Prices in shops, cafes etc and other differences that might not be as apparent when you are visiting as a tourist.

Thanks in advance for any gen for which I will be very grateful.

Clivey:)

- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -

LOL. Ok I`m bumping this as I had no replies but loads of looks. I was probably looking for too much info without being a member here for any amount of time, and I may even be posting in the wrong section of the Forum.

To simplify I`m wondering which parts of the Island hold the greatest density of Elderly UK Expats . "Not necessarily Geriatric" LOL:)

Ta for any advice in advance.

[clivey]

LOL. Ok I`m bumping this as I had no replies but loads of looks. I was probably looking for too much info without being a member here for any amount of time, and I may even be posting in the wrong section of the Forum.:)

To simplify I`m wondering which parts of the Island hold the greatest density of Elderly UK Expats . "Not necessarily Geriatric" LOL

Ta for any advice in advance.


Heres the original Post from Relocation forum

Some advice needed from you experts.

We intend to move to the island when our house is sold so hopefully not too long left to wait. We are intending on renting for 6 months and if we still love it Buy an apartment.

It`s our intention to then operate a small business in the service sector with more or less no Capital outlay or selling involved. We will be more or less financially independent but we would like to have some income to protect our savings.

This is what the crux is. Both me and my Mrs would probably prefer to be in or Near PDLC but really need to be close to a decent population of Expats as our small business plan will be counting on them as the main customer base . We will be mobile but would prefer not to have to travel too far to our clients So if it has to be South we`d like advice.


Also we were wondering about rental and buying prices comparison between the areas, Prices in shops, cafes etc and other differences that might not be as apparent when you are visiting as a tourist.

Thanks in advance for any gen for which I will be very grateful.

Clivey

[tracy hampshire]

if you re looking at the north then yes pdlc has a lot of elderly, british & german, maybe not so many as the south, not too sure , but all along the northern coast you do have many expats, as for cheaper accomadation around puerto, i think you would get more for your money in la oratava & los realejos, only a few miles away, i live in icod de los vinos, 20 mins away from puerto, very cheap here & a small enclave of expats too, good luck in your search x

[clivey]

if you re looking at the north then yes pdlc has a lot of elderly, british & german, maybe not so many as the south, not too sure , but all along the northern coast you do have many expats, as for cheaper accomadation around puerto, i think you would get more for your money in la oratava & los realejos, only a few miles away, i live in icod de los vinos, 20 mins away from puerto, very cheap here & a small enclave of expats too, good luck in your search x



Thanks for that Tracy. This is exactly the type of information that I was looking for. "Ta Muchly".:tiphat:

[tracy hampshire]

you are very welcome x

[JPTenerife]

They've infested everywhere Clivey. Even in places you least expect them to be. The highest elderly concentration is most likely Costa del Silencio (nearly deads), but 'elderly' over here is different to UK. Over here, 60 - 70 is still considered young/middle aged so you'll have to let us know what age you consider elderly. :)

[clivey]

They've infested everywhere Clivey. Even in places you least expect them to be. The highest elderly concentration is most likely Costa del Silencio (nearly deads), but 'elderly' over here is different to UK. Over here, 60 - 70 is still considered young/middle aged so you'll have to let us know what age you consider elderly. :)

Thanks for that LOL. Both me and Mrs Clivey have noticed that the older folks "wear a lot better" on the Island. I think that`s the main reason we are heading there before the cold and damp in the UK does for us.:)

[Angusjim]

Thanks for that LOL. Both me and Mrs Clivey have noticed that the older folks "wear a lot better" on the Island. I think that`s the main reason we are heading there before the cold and damp in the UK does for us.:)

Do you think they wear better most of them look like dryed up prunes with breath that stink of fags & beer and have tattoos everywhere and as for the men:lol::lol:

[Tom & Sharon]

More to the point Clivey, an awful lot don't have any money.

Not all, but a fair amount don't have any, and of the ones that do, they don't all want to spend it either, so be prudent with your business plan!

[clivey]

More to the point Clivey, an awful lot don't have any money.

Not all, but a fair amount don't have any, and of the ones that do, they don't all want to spend it either, so be prudent with your business plan!

Thanks for that advice Folks.:) I`ve always found people on a fixed or lower budget to be thrifty where ever they are.I suppose if they were daft with cash then I doubt they would ever have managed the leap to the canaries,
We`ll be looking to Draw about a Hundred Euro a week between us but I`m not getting too focused on that until we have actually moved across. My main concerns for the first 6 months will be just trying it out and then finding a nice place to buy at a price that suits us if it`s for Keeps.

[essexeddie]

What sort of service are you going to be involved in?
Lots of older Brits in Los Cristianos and Americas, but mainly in the winter though.

[clivey]

What sort of service are you going to be involved in?
Lots of older Brits in Los Cristianos and Americas, but mainly in the winter though.


Thanks for the info. I hope I`m not going to sound overly secretive but I`m not wanting to give too much away yet.:) I will say that both the Mrs and I come from a Health/ Social Care business background.

[LUCKY]

What sort of service are you going to be involved in?
Lots of older Brits in Los Cristianos and Americas, but mainly in the winter though.

Well done EE, you have now started 20 questions, Clivey is it animal , mineral or vegatable? :flatcap:

[Muppet]

Don't forget the 300 each costs for being self-employed legally and having access to healthcare

[Tom & Sharon]

Don't forget the 300 each costs for being self-employed legally and having access to healthcare

If they're retired they'll have access to healthcare anyway, but probably haven't figured in autonomo!

[rosemary]

What we DO need here in Tenerife, especially the south, is more British doctors. Preferably ones with a holistic approach to medicine as well.

[clivey]

Don't forget the 300 each costs for being self-employed legally and having access to healthcare


Thanks for that Muppet. Could you expand a little though as I don`t quite get your drift.::)


I get the Autonomo Part.http://www.advoco.es/hot-topics/43-guide-to-spains-autonomo-system.html#A2

but not sure about Healthcare access bit

[ribuck]

If your business will be something like mobile hairdressing/nail-clipping/dog-grooming (where you visit clients in their own homes) you would do better in the north if you can service German-speaking clients. It seems to me that the average German retiree has much more money than the average UK retiree.

If you were looking to do something like that, I'd suggest living in one of the German enclaves (e.g. Romantico which is near PDLC, or Las Cuevas near La Oratava). That way, you wouldn't even need a car to get to your clients.

If you want a place to live that's on the coast, you could consider Punta Brava which is one mile to the west of PDLC and adjacent to Playa Jardin which is a great beach. It's a compact spanish village, and prices seem much cheaper than in the surrounding expat areas.

- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -


... I hope I`m not going to sound overly secretive but I`m not wanting to give too much away yet.:)

Heh, that sounds like UK corporate thinking, where people are paranoid that someone will "steal their idea".

In Tenerife your problem won't be copycat businesses; your problem will be obscurity. The more widely you broadcast your plans, the higher the chance that some great opportunity will synergistically come to light.

[clivey]

Thanks for that Ribuck. Really excellent reply

@ Muppet and Tom and Sharron

Re autonomo etc. It certainly seems to be a little bit of a headache to get around the small details of Any Tips would be welcome.

[essexeddie]

Hope your not thinking of opening a bar:wow:

[primrose]

Hope your not thinking of opening a bar:wow:

A mobile bar? now that is original.:wow::bowdown:

[clivey]

LOL.. Not even Ex Pro Footballers open bars any more, Me and my Mrs would not do too well in the Stripogram Game either even for the oldies LOL. I do Play a pretty Mean tenor Sax and might Try Busking while the Mrs does an Ethnic Dance or may even try and form or join a small group if theres any place left open to play any more. The main thing is that we are really semi retired in the UK and want to be the same on the Island "Holy Moly" @ the thought of full time work again unless it was as a Gigalo.:male:

This is where the Autonomo issue comes in to play unfortunately. We`ll need to get pretty creative during the first six months, But I ran my Own Business for 18 years and the Other Half still has one here so we are no strangers to Misery. LOL.:lol:

[Tom & Sharon]

Clivey, i's not so easy to be retired/self employed in Tenerife. As far as I know, you would still have to pay autonomo,which is prohibitive on a part time wage. it's just not worth it. If you want to be legal that is. But reading between the lines, you're looking at caring/home help kind of business. You would have to be fully legit on this field because of insurance. You would be crazy to work without it.

I'm no expert, but I do know that you would have to both pay it, because if you are self employed, you cannot employ your spouse in Spain.

[clivey]

Thanks again for the great info. It definitely seems that way regarding the autonomo . It looks like we are facing a bit of a challenge in this dept, but many Folks must be in a very similar predicament and I`m hoping that someone may be able to suggest a course of action that is fair / prudent but also legal.
For example. Would it be more cost effective Not working regularly and just opting out and going a private route for Social/ health insurance ? I suppose that depends on a range of variables?

[doreen]

Thanks again for the great info. It definitely seems that way regarding the autonomo . It looks like we are facing a bit of a challenge in this dept, but many Folks must be in a very similar predicament and I`m hoping that someone may be able to suggest a course of action that is fair / prudent but also legal.
For example. Would it be more cost effective just opting out and going a private route for health insurance ? I suppose that depends on a range of variables?

You really will have to budget for private health care for the first year unless you sign up an as Autonomo almost on arrival: reason being new rules for Residents to the island, unless actually of pensionable age you must prove you have private health insurance.

I have to agree with Tom & Sharon here ... anything in the field of Social or Health care for the elderly really will have to be legal to get adequate insurance.

Another matter to consider, which has been touched on - many elderly ex-pats do not have that much money, often being tied to fixed pensions and poor exchange rates. You tend to find that those who become very frail will go home to family in the UK or wherever unless they have sons/daughters living on the island.

[clivey]

Cheers Doreen. This is the kind of stuff that really helps.
Speaking frankly. I think the first spell in Tenerife will actually be an exploratory mission where we will be effectively Tourists. At this stage we are merely carrying out both our market research and business plan formulation and it`s always a great idea to be aware of potential landmines before going in gungho and making expensive and painful mistakes.
Our core idea is however a sound one as we do not require a large turnover of business nor are we actually targeting a specific age-group but more importantly other folks with a common heritage LOL. The main challenge for us is not to have to work any more than we do just now and to also hold on to our capital as much as we can.( I imagine this rings a lot of bells ) The advantages Tenerife has over the UK are pretty obvious to us but we don`t want to be taken to the cleaners either. LOL:lol:

[Angusjim]

Cheers Doreen. This is the kind of stuff that really helps.
Speaking frankly. I think the first spell in Tenerife will actually be an exploratory mission where we will be effectively Tourists. At this stage we are merely carrying out both our market research and business plan formulation and it`s always a great idea to be aware of potential landmines before going in gungho and making expensive and painful mistakes.
Our core idea is however a sound one as we do not require a large turnover of business nor are we actually targeting a specific age-group but more importantly other folks with a common heritage LOL. The main challenge for us is not to have to work any more than we do just now and to also hold on to our capital as much as we can.( I imagine this rings a lot of bells ) The advantages Tenerife has over the UK are pretty obvious to us but we don`t want to be taken to the cleaners either. LOL:lol:

What in your mind are the advantages Tenerife offers over UK other than the obvious better climate

[essexeddie]

I think that is the only advantage.

[Muppet]

Worth bearing in mind too that formal "qualifications" in a specific line of trade or skill do not necessarily translate here either.

If they are needed, for example in things like healthcare, in order to operate a business legally, it can be long-winded, painful and expensive to have things correctly translated in order to be allowed to trade.

[clivey]

I think that is the only advantage.

Yes I agree. If you were in the north of the UK today you would not have to ask ( Trust me on this). Atrocious weather for almost 6 months of the year might have some romance in a Bronte Novel, but Try 50 mph sleet being blown into your face as you negotiate the local madness that is xmas shopping here as I did today .
The climate is the top of the pyramid which facilitates stuff like more exercise, better diet, more social interaction opportunity, more light, lower fuel bills, etc etc We could and should make a list of benefits that living in the canaries has but ultimately for us Northern Europeans it`s all about the climate.

[essexeddie]

You find that the Spanish love their paperwork.
They could stamp papers all day.:whistle:

[Muppet]

Clivey

I think you will find a lot of us came here to get away from the UK winter weather, and nobody would critisise you for having that as a plan.

Most though take the gamble at a point in life where there is something to fall back on if it goes wrong. Many do not cut their ties with the UK by selling their property, rather rent it out, take the risk, come over for 6 months or a year, try to make a go of it.

Some have skills that fit in well and are in demand here, others sadly end up living here as if they were on an extended holiday - and if that includes living off capital from the sale of a UK property, often involves returning home penniless.

You don't really say what your area of skills are and understandably wish to keep them to yourselves for fear of being copied. That's fair enough, but think carefully. You seriously cannot be the only person in the world with the ideas and plans you have. If you are then why tenerife with 37 percent unemployment, virtually no Social Security system and a country with such a corrupt political system that for over a year CHOOSES not to pay the life-guards on the main tourist beaches (the life blood of the island) despite them continuing to work and save lives almost daily for no pay.

The complications of setting up a business here are almost beyond comprehension, and since you are coming from a country where being self employed is 20 or 30 quid a month, to somewhere where it will cost you each the best part of 300 and where the average wage is at best a fiver an hour, please think very very carefully.

Yes the above is rather full of doom and gloom, but for many that is sadly the reality.

A little more info on your plans would help all of us to give an opinion on your chances, understandably you prefer not to, so for my money, given what you have told us so far, your chances of living your dream in the way you are seeking to are, at best, fairly slim.

[clivey]

Thanks again Muppet for your helpful, lengthy and thoughtful advice. Sometimes during the span of our lifetimes we have to be brave and rely on a combination of self-confidence in ones ability to survive and the gut feeling that things are going to be OK. I have done it on a number of occasions during my lifetime. Some decisions have been right and a few have been very wrong and costly. The truth is that me and my Mrs have recently become very very disillusioned with the UK. It`s now a country that discourages free enterprise and goes out of it`s way to penalise Folk that make an honest living.

Without over-romanticizing the situation. We are only ever really happy when we are in Tenerife and it`s not just a holiday thing but more a realization that It`s a kind of spiritual home for us. I get what you are saying about renting and we are in a position to buy again both in the UK and Tenerife outright with still a bit of cash left over. ( This is what financial advisors , Tee Hee have all advised ). What do Folks Think?? Is Now even a good time to buy on Tenerife or will the prices continue to fall?
It`s all about juggling resources for us. For the last 2 years I`ve chopped and changed the mechanism to make things happen and I can tell you that at this stage I am again having second thoughts about cutting the UK ties/Safety net and perhaps looking towards guaranteeing some rental income on the UK side to pay towards a living allowance while we attempt to develop a revenue stream on the island.

I do know this Sr Muppet. Life is short and "If you want. You have to take" before you run out of steam. I suspect that I`m really picking brains on this Forum looking for success case studies and examples of how Folks in similar situations have managed to get results. When it comes to business. Even great entrepreneurs get it wrong a lot of the time but it`s never a good thing to share a plan until you go to Market. Being in at the start of something allows you the control over many things including Pricing and when to walk away if necessary when sales dilute.

I am really grateful for your input and I hope that your kind self and others will continue to offer this great advice here on this very thread, on the cleverest course of action to fulfill our objectives. Ta Muchly

[LUCKY]

Clivey

I think you will find a lot of us came here to get away from the UK winter weather, and nobody would critisise you for having that as a plan.

Most though take the gamble at a point in life where there is something to fall back on if it goes wrong. Many do not cut their ties with the UK by selling their property, rather rent it out, take the risk, come over for 6 months or a year, try to make a go of it.

Some have skills that fit in well and are in demand here, others sadly end up living here as if they were on an extended holiday - and if that includes living off capital from the sale of a UK property, often involves returning home penniless.

You don't really say what your area of skills are and understandably wish to keep them to yourselves for fear of being copied. That's fair enough, but think carefully. You seriously cannot be the only person in the world with the ideas and plans you have. If you are then why tenerife with 37 percent unemployment, virtually no Social Security system and a country with such a corrupt political system that for over a year CHOOSES not to pay the life-guards on the main tourist beaches (the life blood of the island) despite them continuing to work and save lives almost daily for no pay.

The complications of setting up a business here are almost beyond comprehension, and since you are coming from a country where being self employed is 20 or 30 quid a month, to somewhere where it will cost you each the best part of 300 and where the average wage is at best a fiver an hour, please think very very carefully.

Yes the above is rather full of doom and gloom, but for many that is sadly the reality.

A little more info on your plans would help all of us to give an opinion on your chances, understandably you prefer not to, so for my money, given what you have told us so far, your chances of living your dream in the way you are seeking to are, at best, fairly slim.

Well written and also very true , Thank you so much :flatcap:

[essexeddie]

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders so follow that. But I would also advise you to not cut ties with the UK. Perhaps downsize and release some capital and follow your ideas, at least if it goes wrong you can slip back.
Tenerife is a lovely island with good weather (not always) and not too far so you can get carried away with the holiday mood.

[clivey]

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders so follow that. But I would also advise you to not cut ties with the UK. Perhaps downsize and release some capital and follow your ideas, at least if it goes wrong you can slip back.
Tenerife is a lovely island with good weather (not always) and not too far so you can get carried away with the holiday mood.

We have been reviewing the situation today and we are now going to spend the majority of the proceeds of our House on three apartments. 2 in the UK and one on the Island. Ideally we will still be able to rent before we buy on Tenerife but It may have to be a case of getting in quick and using hard cash to lever a good deal. I`m always a bit sore about expenses but It looks like we will have to bite the bullet and cough up the 14% management fee the UK letting agents leech + the usual "Open Wallet Surgery" the lawyers charge Grr, but it will give us a guaranteed Income of between £800 and £1300 / month while securing the capital. We`ll have to be careful not to Pay too much for the Tenerife Property as the trend is still down but The UK rental, market is heading into the black again as the Bulgarian and Romanians jostle with the Poles and Non European Migrants for properties to rent.

It`s never easy is it? :ashamed:

[BoPeep]

Well, you are thinking hard and trying to plan for eventualities so I guess your are both 3/4 of the way here! Your wife is as keen as you I presume? Are you leaving many family members behind? This can be a big problem as I am finding now the first grandchild is on its way and my husband appears to be a bit soft about that kind of thing!! We stilll have our house in England and he thinks he will be happy there in the winter, just today he is moaning its cold - 22 degrees!!!!

Bear in mind paperwork over here is horrendous and you will need an interpreter to help unless you speak fluent Spanish and preferably with a Canarian lilt! Without paperwork you will find things very difficult and everyone seems to be driven crazy by business paperwork here, even our Canarian friends!

[essexeddie]

I wouldn't say that the Tenerife prices are slipping as I haven't noticed, they seem to be holding firm.
14% seems a bit steep for Uk management, we pay 8%, With nun of the mountain of paperwork that you will get over here.
Best of luck.

[clivey]

Thanks again for your support and Tips . The UK letting Agents are doing well just now but that sounds like you got that deal at a good time. I`ll try and get a better quote as a pair of properties. Still have to sell the family one yet, but the sign is up.

Paperwork,Paperwork,Paperwork. Is it all Job creation, a smoke screen to hide the corruption or a relic of the Ancient Roman Empire? I know one thing It will be more "open wallet surgery". I suppose I could end it all now and jump off the pier with a brick tied round my neck :lol:oh for an easy time of it EH.

[Tom & Sharon]

Where in the UK are you? 14% is way over the odds for a management fee!

[kathml]

For fully managed which you need if notin the country in Edinburgh 15% + VAT is normal

[Tom & Sharon]

10% in the NW fully managed........

[essexeddie]

Essex/London border 8% fully managed

[clivey]

For fully managed which you need if notin the country in Edinburgh 15% + VAT is normal


Yerp. I`m near there and my quote from Your Move was for the " Deluxe No Worries Package" if I remember right.

[Westminster]

Try Callao Salvaje where there is a good mix of British of various ages, and mostly they are relatively prosperous.