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View Full Version : IMF proposing 10% super-tax bail-in on all Eurozone savings



Medanoman
07-01-2014, 15:14
I came across this in the specialist press and thought forewarned is forearmed. The idea that the whole of Europe could suffer a savings grab such as that of Cyprus beggars belief. But then again it has been done all throughout history, After the first war, and the after the second. Your only refuge is bitcoin perhaps :tongue:

In its October 2013 Taxing Times report, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) proposed the capital levy (supertax) of 10% on all household savings accounts in the Eurozone, which would hypothetically solve the debt problem, and tax avoidance in most sovereign countries.


http://www.mondaq.com/x/277700/tax+authorities/IMF+Proposing+10+Super+Tax+Bailin+On+All+Eurozone+ Savings&email_access=on

BoPeep
07-01-2014, 15:54
How terrible! People work hard and save money to look after themselves rather than expect the state to look after them and then have 10% taken away just like that!

Doubt if the British would be involved with this, however, surely it would just be the eurozone?

9PLUS
07-01-2014, 19:04
The European project is working.

JPTenerife
07-01-2014, 20:37
Legislation already passed worldwide, no more bank bailouts, now it's bail ins just like Cyprus with a ceiling of 100,000 on each bank account.

essexeddie
07-01-2014, 22:51
Bit of a worry for some.
That's what I have been saying for some time. Don't put too much money in a Spanish Bank

mike in chayofa
08-01-2014, 11:05
Bit of a worry for some.
That's what I have been saying for some time. Don't put too much money in a Spanish Bank

It doesn't only refer to Spain, as I understand it, it's all eurozone countries.

If you have savings in a fixed term account, how are they going to collect it?

JPTenerife
08-01-2014, 11:27
It doesn't only refer to Spain, as I understand it, it's all eurozone countries.

If you have savings in a fixed term account, how are they going to collect it?

They've been collecting it for years although many just haven't figured it out yet.
It's called artificially low interest rates and inflation on essentials. ;)

Banks and investment companies will be mandated to deduct at source and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Of course there'll be protests if this happens but the measures in Cyprus were still carried out were they not.

There is no solution to this 'wester' economic crisis and the only ways to fix it are:

1. Inflate it away which is proving difficult.
2. Tax the easy targets, the citizens.
3. Reset all debt, ie wipe the slate clean and start again.
4. Rather than bank bailouts, how about people bailouts. That would definitely put money in the real economy and prop up revenue.

Any other ideas, add them and maybe we can save the world. :D

BoPeep
08-01-2014, 19:08
Are you really suggesting that we should wipe all peoples debt out, number 3? What message would that give everybody? Spend more than you can afford and you can keep your ill gotten gains while we right them off!

Mind you, the new rules that allow bankruptcy to be so easily accepted is almost doing that already! Most people would have killed themselves rather than go into bankruptcy not that many years ago.

essexeddie
08-01-2014, 19:41
Best keep it under the mattress

JPTenerife
08-01-2014, 20:35
Are you really suggesting that we should wipe all peoples debt out, number 3? What message would that give everybody? Spend more than you can afford and you can keep your ill gotten gains while we right them off!


That option was first proffered by Professor Steve Keen, a prominent economist who was one of the few to predict the collapse in 2008.
I can't see why it couldn't work as long as strict rules are adhered to after it takes effect and interest rates are allowed to rise to real levels (between 3-7% at least).

LUCKY
08-01-2014, 20:49
Best keep it under the mattress

I used to keep it there , But i can remember MFI going bust:flatcap:So not a good idea:flatcap:

BoPeep
08-01-2014, 22:59
It wouldnt work if everyone decided that looking after themselves and working for a living when the state was going to take any money you earned to bail out people who wont! It would be no good telling people its a one off, no on would believe it.

Why would anyone save? Everyone would put all they can on a credit card, debit card etc and wait to be bailed out!

Essexeddie is absolutely correct, anyone with money would put it under a mattress and the 'money go round' that we call economics would stop working.

essexeddie
09-01-2014, 00:13
Might as well put it under the mattress, 2% interest isn't exactly mind boggling. Especially if they steal 10% of it.

kez1000
09-01-2014, 10:12
I think perhaps hiding money in offshore schemes and Swiss banks 'was' technically a modern day way of putting money under the mattress, I guess when the amounts some hold in these facilities is in the millions, the mattress might be a bit uncomfortable to sleep on. Principally it's right and wrong, practically it's about the amounts, I doubt the cash grab from savings would get to those who are in such schemes / banks.

princessmonika
09-01-2014, 10:32
paper does not refuse ink --:newspaper::reading: we will see--:cheers2:

boredinscotland
09-01-2014, 12:51
Cash is on way out, diversify a bit, precious metals,property,etc. If thet can 'steal' savings in Cyprus they can do it anywhere, the savers paying for the greedy people that want but can't afford but get it anyway,,,not fair is it

Medanoman
09-01-2014, 13:03
[QUOTE=BoPeep;346220 It would be no good telling people its a one off, no on would believe it.

Why would anyone save? Everyone would put all they can on a credit card, debit card etc and wait to be bailed out!

Essexeddie is absolutely correct, anyone with money would put it under a mattress and the 'money go round' that we call economics would stop working.[/QUOTE]

What happened in Cyprus was considered a trial run by many, and was endorsed not only be the European central bank but by the IMF too. But you have to remember that it is not the first time that a state has stolen cash from its populace. After both wars and in Cyprus it has happened , and even the Americans did something similar back in 1933, all persons in possession or control of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates (i.e. paper currency redeemable in gold coin of the United States) had to turn them in to any federal reserve bank or any "member bank" of the Federal Reserve system. for pennies of their real value

As for keeping money under your mattress you know that you cannot spend it don't you? Here in Spain it is illegal to use more than 3000 euros in cash. Apart from the fact that it will quickly loose value with inflation
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-18/guest-post-large-wealth-grab-way

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-confiscation-of-savings-in-canada-cyprus-style-bail-ins-proposed-by-ottawa-government/5329263

As for wiping out all debt, the idea was preached about in the bible

http://theconversation.com/the-debt-jubilee-an-old-testament-solution-to-a-modern-financial-crisis-11816

kathml
09-01-2014, 13:57
As for this rule about no transactions over 3000 euros in cash it doesn't seem to apply here I've seen up to 20000 changing hands on a regular basis personally I've used 5000 in one or two transactions with no problem

9PLUS
09-01-2014, 14:04
€2500 per cash transaction if it's registered ie comes with an official receipt they will get you for it.

25% each way is the fine if i remember correctly

primrose
09-01-2014, 14:08
Just spend it, they are more than welcome to 10% of my Tshirts.

kathml
09-01-2014, 14:28
€2500 per cash transaction if it's registered ie comes with an official receipt they will get you for it.

25% each way is the fine if i remember correctly

Not seen many official receipts in fact not seen many receipts at all

9PLUS
09-01-2014, 14:33
As long as it doesn't get registered in some way it will go unnoticed.

Medanoman
09-01-2014, 14:37
Indeed , i read somewhere that keeping large sums under your mattress isn't a good idea, since if for any reason you feel like putting it back in your account and cannot justify where it came from they will help themselves to 40% of it..

So don't loose you withdrawal receipts!

Jabba43
10-01-2014, 22:06
Cash has not really survived, over the last 100 years you could have lost it a few times depending on your geographical location. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation. Check out all the countries that have experienced it.

In the old days the rich who survived revolution bought gold and art so once the wars had finished they went back to their manors and rehung their pictures and kept their wealth in gold.

Experienced cyprus first hand, so do to think they are not crazy enough to do it. Horrible feeling being able to look at your internet balance but not access it. I fully expect them to implement this 10% as debts are horrible nearly in every county in the western world. Could happen anytime after the European elections in May.

seanocelt
10-01-2014, 23:05
This makes me uncomfortable: mattress full of bumps now

edit,....google "IMF savings grab" and this thread is 3rd. Well done the O.P., we lead the world in scaremongering. Sadly, im scared too!

bonitatime
11-01-2014, 09:57
I haven't got any savings so not worried they can have 10% of my debts any time

boredinscotland
11-01-2014, 10:40
So basically the savers pay for the ,want but can't afford brigade,

bonitatime
12-01-2014, 11:25
They are paying the banks no one else
Going bankrupt is almost impossible in Spain so if you have debts you will be paying them into the grave
All those who thought the property boom would just go on and on have caused most of Spain's difficulties and we are now all paying for it one way or another

TenerifeTeddy
12-01-2014, 12:01
€2500 per cash transaction if it's registered ie comes with an official receipt they will get you for it.

25% each way is the fine if i remember correctly

When this came into force my accountant advised me that it was actually a total of €2500 in transactions to any single client in the tax year, so even if multiple invoices to one client total up to €2500 then over that amount must be "visible" ie by cheque or bank transfer or bank card. And you are correct about the penalties.

+

9PLUS
12-01-2014, 12:31
When this came into force my accountant advised me that it was actually a total of €2500 in transactions to any single client in the tax year, so even if multiple invoices to one client total up to €2500 then over that amount must be "visible" ie by cheque or bank transfer or bank card. And you are correct about the penalties.

+



Your accountant is correct

bonitatime
13-01-2014, 16:35
That's interesting as Marcos Cabrera told is it was per bill

9PLUS
13-01-2014, 19:44
Asimismo, la Agencia Tributaria ha aclarado que si una operación pagada en efectivo supera los 2.500 euros pero se paga en varias veces fraccionando el pago por importes inferiores al límite legal, también se está incumpliendo la limitación que ahora entra en vigor. Es decir, si una operación de 4.000 euros se paga en efectivo en dos plazos de 2.000 euros cada uno, la sanción sería del 25% sobre los 4.000 euros y, por tanto, de 1.000 euros en total.

Jabba43
13-01-2014, 20:42
Like anyone takes any notice of that. Ridiculous rules end up with even more avoidance.

bonitatime
13-01-2014, 21:08
That's two payments of the same bill
Not two different bills to the same company

9PLUS
13-01-2014, 21:36
That's two payments of the same bill
Not two different bills to the same company



Do you think it's ok to pay a bill in cash of €5000 spread over 3 bills ?

ie €1000, €2300, €1700 ?

bonitatime
13-01-2014, 23:47
I have a supplier who I buy from monthly
There is no plan what I buy and I can't predict if I will spend over 2.500 a year or not
They prefer to be paid in cash and Marcos Cabrera tells me this is ok

Jabba43
14-01-2014, 21:14
http://www.theleader.info/445/article/36704/spain/national/2500-euro-limit-on-cash-payments-comes-into-effect/

"In order not to damage activities associated with the tourism sector, the limitation on the use of cash is raised to 15,000 euros when the payor is a non-resident private individual." so a few exceptions then.

Sort of like after the French revolution when there was hyperinflation. People wanted to trade and gold and silver rather than worthless paper, so the government introduced a penalty of death for anyone who asked "how would you like to be paid" nudge, nudge wink wink I have some shiny coins here. Napoleon brought them back from the brink and reintroduced a gold standard.

Really these governments can FO with their nonsense rules. They are praying for digital currency now so they can get their cut on everything the greedy *******s. We are not free, people listening to phones and internet, governments hunting down every penny we earn and now they want to steal 10% of everything you ever saved. God help us, we are heading into difficult times and no one seems to mind or make much of a fuss about it.

Finish this rant with a Benjamin Franklin

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

essexeddie
15-01-2014, 20:09
Good rant Jabba