What was the name of Nelson's ship that sank in Santa Cruz de Tenerife?

[LUCKY]

Whilst talking in a bar the other day, it was mentioned that Nelsons ship that sank at Santa Cruz was been raised, whether this be true i do not know , What i would like to know what is the name of the ship. :sailor2::flatcap:

[marbro8]

Whilst talking in a bar the other day, it was mentioned that Nelsons ship that sank at Santa Cruz was been raised, whether this be true i do not know , What i would like to know what is the name of the ship. :sailor2::flatcap:i always thought that nelsons ship was the victory? and i have been on it in portsmouth, but and it is a big but,there is only 25% of the original ship there:(, the other 75% has been restored, so in answer to your question lucky if they have found about 26% of the original ship then they have actually found more of the victory than they have in portsmouth, if that makes sense:o;)

[LUCKY]

i always thought that nelsons ship was the victory? and i have been on it in portsmouth, but and it is a big but,there is only 25% of the original ship there:(, the other 75% has been restored, so in answer to your question lucky if they have found about 26% of the original ship then they have actually found more of the victory than they have in portsmouth, if that makes sense:o;)

I have since found out that Nelsons ship at santa Cruz was not the victory, Neither was his ship sunk , He lost his arm whilst disembarking at santa cruz, he was taken back to his ship to be operated on.An agreement was struck between the spanish and British that Tenerife would not be molelested. The Victory eventualy became nelsons flag ship but not at santa cruz.

[junglejim]

The Battle of santa Cruz - Nelson's ship Theseus was not sunk ,

http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/navalbattles1800s/p/tenerife.htm

[LUCKY]

The Battle of santa Cruz - Nelson's ship Theseus was not sunk ,

http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/navalbattles1800s/p/tenerife.htm

Thank you so much for your reply. It goes to show what a wonderfull forum we have , Thank you once again :flatcap:

[martincrabb99]

The Battle of santa Cruz - Nelson's ship Theseus was not sunk ,

http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/navalbattles1800s/p/tenerife.htm

Is it true that the Tenerife flag was adopted in recognition of the Scottish sailors bravery during this battle?

[Happy Days]

Well maybe someone on here can confirm what I once heard...

During the years that Spain removed vast quantities of gold from South America, there are documents to prove that no less than four of those gold laden ships were sank in the harbour of Santa Cruz.

As the story goes the Spanish government are fully aware of this but the port is too busy and would not be possible to stop the ships entering for a sufficient amount of time to explore properly.

God I hope it's true

[junglejim]

Believe it or not... it's WIKI!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Tenerife

[martincrabb99]

Believe it or not... it's WIKI!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Tenerife

We learn as we go along.....I like both explanations!

[timmylish]

Believe it or not... it's WIKI!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Tenerife


I cannot accept, for one minute, that the Bowler Hat Brigade had any involvement in the acceptance of the Saltire by the Toon Council of Santa Cruz and was in fact in recognition of the bravery of the Scottish delegation engaged in battle, most of whom were likely to have been of a Catholic background due both to religion and poverty (both went hand in hand at this time).

[LUCKY]

Thanks to the Mod who changed the title of my thread , you changed the title after post number 10 The thread started as Nelsons Ship ? If you had read post number 3, where i stated it had not sank. Please dont give me the old story it appeals to more readers. I am not a happy Lucky. :flatcap:

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I have since found out that Nelsons ship at santa Cruz was not the victory, Neither was his ship sunk , He lost his arm whilst disembarking at santa cruz, he was taken back to his ship to be operated on.An agreement was struck between the spanish and British that Tenerife would not be molelested. The Victory eventualy became nelsons flag ship but not at santa cruz.

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[junglejim]

Well, Timmy , being WIKI you can actually modify it at your leisure , check with the Masonic Lodge in Santa Cruz first though!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masonic_Temple_of_Santa_Cruz_de_Tenerife

Read amended link -History part !

History
Map of the island of Tenerife, where the flag is inserted.

The flag was first adopted as a maritime registry flag of the maritime province of the Canary Islands. It was initially adopted in 1845 by Royal Order and was adopted as the flag of Tenerife by an Order issued on 9 May 1989, with the order appearing in the Boletín Oficial de Canarias on 22 May 1989.

The flag is similar to the Flag of Scotland in design. The difference is that the Scottish Saltire's field colour is usually approximated around Pantone 300 (azure or sky blue) instead of the Tenerife's darker "navy blue" field.

There are two popular traditions on the island of Tenerife trying to explain the resemblance of the Flag of Tenerife with the Flag of Scotland.

One is that the flag was adopted as a mark of respect to the bravery of the Scottish sailors in the Battle of Santa Cruz.

An alternative theory is the most influential masters of the island of Tenerife chose a design similar to the Scottish flag belonged to the Masonic Grand Lodge of Scotland and proposed a similar flag for the maritime province of the Canary Islands, which later became the flag of Tenerife. Timmylish says this is Pish !

[Medman]

[QUOTE=LUCKY;390922]Thanks to the Mod who changed the title of my thread , you changed the title after post number 10 The thread started as Nelsons Ship ? If you had read post number 3, where i stated it had not sank. Please dont give me the old story it appeals to more readers. I am not a happy Lucky. :flatcap:

But are you a Happy Go Lucky ... sounds much better and more positive and an unchangeable title that would cause nobody offence ... :flatcap:

[Angusjim]

But good to see his descendants are still around Tenerife staying at Sur Y Sol and they still seem to be in conflict with the Tenerife government:whistle::doh:

[admin]

But the modified thread title reflects your original question, so whoever changed it obviously did so based on what was asked.

[nelson]

But good to see his descendants are still around Tenerife staying at Sur Y Sol and they still seem to be in conflict with the Tenerife government:whistle::doh:


I have a barometer that I bought at the great Yorkshire show some years ago which the vendor told me is on a stand made from wood salvaged from nelsons flagship hms victory . The stand has a copper strip on it which I was told was fixed onto the hulls of Royal Navy ships at the time, hence the saying copper bottomed .

The talk of bravery of Scottish sailors at Santa Cruz is what we know in history right up to the present day.

This Englishman hopes you jocks will still be with us after next month

[martincrabb99]

I have a barometer that I bought at the great Yorkshire show some years ago which the vendor told me is on a stand made from wood salvaged from nelsons flagship hms victory . The stand has a copper strip on it which I was told was fixed onto the hulls of Royal Navy ships at the time, hence the saying copper bottomed .

The talk of bravery of Scottish sailors at Santa Cruz is what we know in history right up to the present day.

This Englishman hopes you jocks will still be with us after next month

I endorse that sentiment[emoji106]

[warbey]

Theseus is not a good Name for an English Vessel.

A Sub sank in Liverpool Bay about 60years ago, bearing that Name.

I cannot forget that Name LUCKY.

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I endorse that sentiment[emoji106]

Who Doesn't want Them..? Not many I'll be bound.!

[marbro8]

I have a barometer that I bought at the great Yorkshire show some years ago which the vendor told me is on a stand made from wood salvaged from nelsons flagship hms victory . The stand has a copper strip on it which I was told was fixed onto the hulls of Royal Navy ships at the time, hence the saying copper bottomed .

The talk of bravery of Scottish sailors at Santa Cruz is what we know in history right up to the present day.

This Englishman hopes you jocks will still be with us after next monthwell said nelson:c2:

[LUCKY]

Thank you so much for making an appearance nelson this surely will go DOWN as a historic post :flatcap:

[LUCKY]

The attack on Santa Cruz de Tenerife, 23/25 July 1797: Rear Admiral Sir Horatio Nelson's 'Account of Proceedings ' to Admiral Sir John Jervis (*)

Theseus, off Santa Cruz, 27 July 1797

Sir,

In obedience to your orders to make a vigorous attack on Santa Cruz in the island of Tenerife, I directed from the Ships under my command, 1000 men, including Marines, to be prepared for landing under the direction of Captain Troubridge. And although I am under the painful necessity of acquainting you that we have not been able to succeed in our attack, yet it is my duty to state that I believe more daring intrepidity was never shewn than by the captains, Officers and Men, you did me the honour to place under my command.

Having embarked the men on board the frigates, attended by all the boats of the squadron, scaling ladders and every implement which I thought necessary for the success of the enterprise, I directed that the boats should land in the night between the Fort of the north-east side of the bay of Santa Cruz, and the Town, and endeavour to make themselves masters of that Fort, which done, to send in my Summons.

Although the Frigates approached within three miles of the place of debarkation by twelve o'clock, yet from the unforeseen circumstance of a strong gale of wind in the offing, and strong current against them inshore, they did not approach within a mile of the landing-pace when the day dawned, which discovered to the Spaniards our force and intentions.

On my approach with the Line of Battle Ships, Captain Troubridge came on board to consult with me what was best to be done and was of the opinion that if they could possess themselves of the heights over the Fort above mentioned that it could be stormed. I gave my consent and directed the Line of Battle Ships to batter the fort but this was found impracticable, not being able to get nearer the shore than three miles, from a calm and contrary currents. Nor could our men possess themselves of the heights as the Enemy had taken possession of them.

Thus foiled in my original plan, I considered it for the honour of our King and Country not to give over the attempt to possess ourselves of the Town; that our enemies might be convinced there is nothing which Englishmen are not equal to.

At 11 o'clock on the night of the 24/25 July, the Boats of the Squadron containing between six and seven hundred men, one hundred and eighty men on board the Fox cutter, proceeded towards the Town. We were not discovered till within gunshot of the landing place when I directed the Boasts to cast off from each other, give an hurrah and push for the shore.

A fire of thirty or forty pieces of cannon, with musketry, from one end of the Town to the other opened upon us but nothing could stop the intrepidity of the Captains leading the divisions. Unfortunately the greatest part of the Boats did not see the Mole but went on shore in a raging surf which stove all the Boats.

I was wounded in the arm early in the action and obliged to be carried off the beach but I cannot but express to you my admiration of the firmness which Captain Troubridge and his brave associates supported the honour of the British flag. Notwithstanding all their difficulties, they pushed over the Enemy's line wall and batteries and formed in the Great Square of the Town. They marched against the Citadel but found it far beyond their power to take.

At daylight Captain Troubridge, seeing the impossibility of any assistance from the Ships, sent Captain Hood with a message to the Governor. And here it is right that we should notice the generous and noble conduct of Don Juan Antonio Gutierrez, the Spanish Governor. The moment terms were agreed to, he directed our wounded men to be received into the hospitals and all our people to be supplied with the best provisions that could be procured.

I have the honour to be, sir, with the greatest respect,

Your most faithful and obedient Servant.

Horatio Nelson

[LUCKY]

Maybe this one was sunk .
HMS Fox was a 14-gun cutter purchased in 1794 and sunk in action in 1797.
Does anyone have anymore info.
:flatcap:

[Angusjim]

Maybe this one was sunk .
HMS Fox was a 14-gun cutter purchased in 1794 and sunk in action in 1797.
Does anyone have anymore info.
:flatcap:

Come on Lucky has been very patient waiting on reply to his original query:c2::doh:

[LUCKY]

At dawn, when the British boats, sailing with the oars wrapped in cloth were about 350 meters from the beach, they were discovered in the bay of Santa Cruz for the Spanish frigate San Jose , which was moored on the main quay. The alarm spread quickly from San Jose to the entire front area of Santa Cruz. They began the first gunfire, and possibly because darkness was absolute, were conducted randomly over silhouettes group of boats approached the beach.
The battle began simultaneously on five fronts , with major actions in the areas of the pier and the Plaza de la Pila ,the gorge of Santos and the beach of the Butchers
The Spanish batteries opened fire from Paso Alto to San Telmo . In the early days, when even the boats approached the shore, one of them reached the cutter Fox below the waterline, the boat sank rapidly causing the death of their commander, Lieutenant Gibson, and other 97 soldiers and sailors

[TOTO 99]

At dawn, when the British boats, sailing with the oars wrapped in cloth were about 350 meters from the beach, they were discovered in the bay of Santa Cruz for the Spanish frigate San Jose , which was moored on the main quay. The alarm spread quickly from San Jose to the entire front area of Santa Cruz. They began the first gunfire, and possibly because darkness was absolute, were conducted randomly over silhouettes group of boats approached the beach.
The battle began simultaneously on five fronts , with major actions in the areas of the pier and the Plaza de la Pila ,the gorge of Santos and the beach of the Butchers
The Spanish batteries opened fire from Paso Alto to San Telmo . In the early days, when even the boats approached the shore, one of them reached the cutter Fox below the waterline, the boat sank rapidly causing the death of their commander, Lieutenant Gibson, and other 97 soldiers and sailors

Sounds like an average day on the Mersey ferry......:laugh:

[bennoa1]

I have a barometer that I bought at the great Yorkshire show some years ago which the vendor told me is on a stand made from wood salvaged from nelsons flagship hms victory . The stand has a copper strip on it which I was told was fixed onto the hulls of Royal Navy ships at the time, hence the saying copper bottomed .

The talk of bravery of Scottish sailors at Santa Cruz is what we know in history right up to the present day.

This Englishman hopes you jocks will still be with us after next month

You can buy bits of copper and wood from the Victory which I assume are from when it is refurbished. You need to get a certificate though to authenticate the item, and bigger bits and special bits with maybe copper rivets are more expensive. I've got a couple of bits for my Victory themed bar (when I get to do it). An example:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HMS-VICTORY-WOOD-LORD-NELSON-nsm57-/331691326622?hash=item4d3a57fc9e:g:YVsAAOSw~bFWLVd h