Ceasefire

[kingbaker]

Today is the twentieth anniversary of the '94 ceasefire, which led to the '98 agreement, and brought peace to Northern Ireland. ;)

[martincrabb99]

Today is the twentieth anniversary of the '94 ceasefire, which led to the '98 agreement, and brought peace to Northern Ireland. ;)

Although I saw on the news this morning that some dissident republicans are still continuing with violence and that bomb attacks have increased in the last ten years.

[melm]

Will they never stop killing their fellow countrymen.:dontknow:

All in the name of religion:doh:

[marbro8]

Will they never stop killing their fellow countrymen.:dontknow:

All in the name of religion:doh:it's going on all over the world,just look at the middle east,i can honestly say i have never known it so bad:(

[nelson]

The dissident republicans are basically still fighting what they see as an armed struggle against an occupying force which they want to remove from a part of their country . The former republican terror groups that are party to the peace deal were previously engaged in this same armed struggle .

I think the republics who are part of the peace deal are content to wait until the catholic population in the north is greater than the Protestant , and so will come a united ireland , the diiidents still fighting are not prepared to wait

[martincrabb99]

The dissident republicans are basically still fighting what they see as an armed struggle against an occupying force which they want to remove from a part of their country . The former republican terror groups that are party to the peace deal were previously engaged in this same armed struggle .

I think the republics who are part of the peace deal are content to wait until the catholic population in the north is greater than the Protestant , and so will come a united ireland , the diiidents still fighting are not prepared to wait

Could you clarify your comment relating to occupying force as I'm not sure about that?

[nelson]

Yes, the republican groups in Northern Ireland regard the British governance of that region as an alien occupation , in the same way we talk about the nazi occupation of parts of Europe in ww2 as an enemy occupation. For these groups their position is that the majority of the population of the whole island of Ireland actually wish to governed by their own Irish govt based in Dublin , as was established in 1921. The position of the republican groups in Northern Ireland is that in 1921 an unacceptable partition of their country took place , the split of the northern counties to remain part of the uk, so the occupying force they see as the British govt and it's security forces.

[martincrabb99]

Yes, the republican groups in Northern Ireland regard the British governance of that region as an alien occupation , in the same way we talk about the nazi occupation of parts of Europe in ww2 as an enemy occupation. For these groups their position is that the majority of the population of the whole island of Ireland actually wish to governed by their own Irish govt based in Dublin , as was established in 1921. The position of the republican groups in Northern Ireland is that in 1921 an unacceptable partition of their country took place , the split of the northern counties to remain part of the uk, so the occupying force they see as the British govt and it's security forces.

Thanks Nelson that has clarified your comment and I appreciate your considered response.

[nelson]

Thanks Nelson that has clarified your comment and I appreciate your considered response.

Clearly this is a very emotive subject, there is 20 years of the peace settlement but dissident groups are still active . The power sharing executive exists , that's better than the open warfare of 30 /40 years ago. We now have the official ira men sitting in top govt posts , these guys were equally part of an armed struggle just a few years ago.

[martincrabb99]

Clearly this is a very emotive subject, there is 20 years of the peace settlement but dissident groups are still active . The power sharing executive exists , that's better than the open warfare of 30 /40 years ago. We now have the official ira men sitting in top govt posts , these guys were equally part of an armed struggle just a few years ago.

One of the most complex conflicts of our time and I can't help feeling that the issues involved will not be resolved in my lifetime. I think criminality is one consequence of the disbanding of groups on all sides. Racketeering and Drug related crime is now a major problem or certainly was the last time I was there.

[nelson]

One of the most complex conflicts of our time and I can't help feeling that the issues involved will not be resolved in my lifetime. I think criminality is one consequence of the disbanding of groups on all sides. Racketeering and Drug related crime is now a major problem or certainly was the last time I was there.

I am not sure myself that the conflict is really that complex? From what I have seen of the history of the subject it comes down to the establishment of the colony of ulster in Northern Ireland in the reign of James the first. These settlers were Protestant Scottish people . The greater part of the Irish population was Roman Catholic , not sure how Henry v111 put up with that? Basically as the movement for Irish independence moved forward it ended up with a majority in favour of independence as demonstrated by Irish mps elected to the Westminster parliament . Only in the six counties of the north did a majority exist to prefer to remain part of the uk. The British govt of the day have the Irish a partition deal rather than full independence , the six counties in the north staying in the uk , the rest becoming an independant country , at first called the Irish free state , not a republic still keeping our king, like say Australia .

I don't see a great complexity in this issue ? The British govt in 1921 not giving full independence has led to certain groups in the north continuing an armed struggle to achieve this up to the present.

[martincrabb99]

I am not sure myself that the conflict is really that complex? From what I have seen of the history of the subject it comes down to the establishment of the colony of ulster in Northern Ireland in the reign of James the first. These settlers were Protestant Scottish people . The greater part of the Irish population was Roman Catholic , not sure how Henry v111 put up with that? Basically as the movement for Irish independence moved forward it ended up with a majority in favour of independence as demonstrated by Irish mps elected to the Westminster parliament . Only in the six counties of the north did a majority exist to prefer to remain part of the uk. The British govt of the day have the Irish a partition deal rather than full independence , the six counties in the north staying in the uk , the rest becoming an independant country , at first called the Irish free state , not a republic still keeping our king, like say Australia .

I don't see a great complexity in this issue ? The British govt in 1921 not giving full independence has led to certain groups in the north continuing an armed struggle to achieve this up to the present.

I am not talking about the historical facts as you have outlined in your response, I am thinking more of the complexities involved politically and the intransigence of some parties involved to achieve ' peace ' we should not be under any illusion to the fact that the resolving of the problems in Ireland will not be solved in the short term. A lot of progress has been made but there is a long way to go on this journey which has stemmed from the historical facts outlined by yourself. As I said I just cannot see it in my lifetime.
Will there ever be an Ireland which is not divided?

[nelson]

I am not talking about the historical facts as you have outlined in your response, I am thinking more of the complexities involved politically and the intransigence of some parties involved to achieve ' peace ' we should not be under any illusion to the fact that the resolving of the problems in Ireland will not be solved in the short term. A lot of progress has been made but there is a long way to go on this journey which has stemmed from the historical facts outlined by yourself. As I said I just cannot see it in my lifetime.
Will there ever be an Ireland which is not divided?


I don't think that the political reality in Northern Ireland today is at all complex. You basically have just two opposing factions , pro uk loyalist , religion Protestant and pro Republic of Ireland , religion Roman Catholic .

As you say the sides are both set in their respective views , there is no middle way or compromise , but I don't see any great complexity to this , it seems very clear to me what the issue is ,

[martincrabb99]

I don't think that the political reality in Northern Ireland today is at all complex. You basically have just two opposing factions , pro uk loyalist , religion Protestant and pro Republic of Ireland , religion Roman Catholic .

As you say the sides are both set in their respective views , there is no middle way or compromise , but I don't see any great complexity to this , it seems very clear to me what the issue is ,

The issue is clear but resolving the issue is not if it wasn't complex how come it has not been resolved. I note that you haven't answered my question about an Ireland without division.

[nelson]

The issue is clear but resolving the issue is not if it wasn't complex how come it has not been resolved. I note that you haven't answered my question about an Ireland without division.

This simple none complex issue has not been resolved because both sides are determined to have their position , their desired outcome , and no other . The republican side seek a united Ireland and the end of britains political control of that part of the island of Ireland , the loyalist side demand none of that and seek that the north remain part of the uk indefinitely , basically forever .

That's why the issue has not been resolved , it's not complex at all , it's just the two warring sides hold viewpoints that leave no middle ground or room for compromise .

I understand that the demographic in Northern Ireland favours the republican side , in 100 years the republican population may outnumber the loyalist , a democratic vote for a united republican Ireland may then be the outcome ,but as you say it won't probably be in your lifetime

[martincrabb99]

I have to disagree there is much more involved than just historical facts and religious divides. As you know politics is a complicated matter and I truly hope that it will all be resolved peacefully. So I am off to BHX now en route to TFS.