View Full Version : How and why do you think the refugee or economic migrant crisis in Europe started?
TheBloke
22-09-2015, 23:31
I´m sure everybody with a brain has been reading about the mass influx of people from different countries into Europe and thinking about the potential consequences to the nature of nation states and their cultures.......I want your opinions and all of them regardless of politics,race or culture.
Let the games begin!
As always there are those who believe those less fortunate should be helped, and there are others with a polarised view of that. That is human nature and it's been going on for generations.
People had to leave Ireland because they were literally starving...Ireland!..it's on our doorstep and yet it happened. Off they went to America and of course some came here. Not everybody welcomed them. Looking back at that it's hard to imagine why anybody would turn their back on a starving family....but they did.
The word "culture" covers a great deal and it's easily mixed up with tradition. It's not that long ago that Liverpool was being used to transport human slaves.....if that was our culture I'm glad we've moved on.
The papers love to show us a photo opportunity of some nutty muslim type, screaming at a policeman who's just doing his duty, or a guard outside the palace........It sells papers. But the nutcase doesn't represent the majority and our way of life will not be changed because of him. A more worrying photo would be one where they lined up every druggie from every town in the UK. Every scumbag who breaks into houses and steals peoples property just so they can buy drugs.....That would be some photo wouldn't it?
The current displacement could have been better handled if our collective governments had got together in the begining and made proper arrangements. But no, they love to wait until it's too late. They seem to like nothing more than letting it get to the stage where normal people, you and I, are arguing and campaigning and rioting against each other over something they should have dealt with a year ago.
I think we need to ask ourselves, would we travel in terrible conditions, thousands of miles, to a place we've never been to before and where we might not be welcome?....We are very lucky that we will hopefully never have to be in a position where we have to....:respect:
Very well said Toto,my sentiments too and nail on the head ..methinks.
delderek
23-09-2015, 14:06
6154Just a question, why do other Islamist states not let them in, for instance Saudi Arabia, has enough permanently erected air conditioned tents, with water and toilets in each, to house 3 million people, that are only used for 3 weeks each year. Put simply they don't want them. Islamic states don't even allow Palestinian refugees in. No official reasons as to why, unofficially, and well known to anyone that is familiar with these places, they don't want them because "They cause trouble"
essexeddie
23-09-2015, 19:20
Well we shall soon see if they are grateful enough to not cause trouble. If any of the other Muslims are anything to go by that wanted to settle in the UK in the past, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. I think we are in big trouble letting them in. They cant even be civil with each other. They have been fighting each other for over 1700 years. So what chance have we got?
if they are leaving because they are in fear of their lives and are hungry why are they all trying to get through safe countries. How many of them are genuine and how many are economic migrants. There are a lot of southern africans and also pakistanis plus others that are just jumping on the band wagon because germany said wecome to all but they were quick to close their borders when they saw what was happening
At present in the U.K. nothing much works very well
, except for the Leeches who are still sucking us dry. i.e. Bankers politicians etc
Healthcare is hit and miss and Schools also could do better in many, but not all, cases.
We need Housing and are building on Land that should be retained for crops to feed and keep us.
So let's let everyone in. We can be sure we will be at the back of the queue for most things.
In the future the muslims will outnumber the various home Religions and WE may then have to become refugees.....?
Just saying.............
so why it started is immaterial but probably partially caused by Western intervention in a couple of locations..
Russia has also had input and probably other agencies too. We will never know.
i never thought that i would say i actually feel sorry for the likes of romania hungary etc. but maybe now they know how we feel. they reacon only 1 in 5 of all those thousands of migrants are actually true asylum seekers. so yes i feel sorry for the 1 in 5. but not the ones chancing it and just jumping on the bandwagon.there are thousands of true asylum seekers in camps in syria. that have applied and waited for years to get asylum in europe. how would you feel if you had waited in a queue for years. for all those people to come rushing past you to the front???. and get what you had patiently and legally waited for. on another point.i can see the dechristionisation of europe. i have nothing against TRUE believers of the muslim religion. but how do IS portray themselves?the trouble is these people jump on the "we are fighting for allah" bandwagon. and give all muslims a bad name. we had a course at work the other day. about child sexual exploitation. and we had a muslim lad in there. he turned the whole meeting on it's head by declaring that the police and uk government were all anti islamic because of the way that muslim child sex gang was exposed in rochdale???. what the hell do they teach them in those mosque's???. trust me there will be a civil war in either europe or uk within the next 50-60 years. the trouble with us is we give everyone free speech and we are tolerant. and they stand on OUR streets decrying us. and plot to kill us and our soldiers. the only way to sort it out is to stabilize syria. if that means ousting assad then so be it. and then making it attractive for all those poor people to go back home without the fear of death hanging over them
TheBloke
24-09-2015, 00:14
Marbro8 nearly everything you say is true apart from your understanding of syria,the United States funded ISIS to overthrow Assad and as usual it hasn't worked.The reasons for this are pure and simply gas and oil and the control of its supply.The islamic terrorists were paid by the good ol USA to bring down a leader who wouldn't do what he was told.Luckily for Assad his mate Vladimir is around......
The destruction of nation states has been the plan for along,long time by the people or families that wield far more influence than Governments and even banks.Divide and control is their modus operendi and in my opinion their plans look like having no opposition from the sheep who inhabit most western countries.I was almost sick when i saw the t/shirts proclaiming Welcome Refugees in various European countries last weekend......Cultural suicide......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
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p.s To show you how insane the world has become Saudia Arabia has been announced as the country to lead the United Nations Human Rights Commision:devil2:
Not in our generation, but our children's or their children's generations this will become a major problem to western society and way of life. European countries will regret letting so many migrants from the East in, a decision they cannot reverse! Many do not try or want to integrate and form their own communities within the host country. I come from the West Midlands and have experienced this first hand, I'm sure Marbro8 will agree! You only have to take a drive through Handsworth, Birmingham to witness this! I personally am glad I live on this beautiful island of Tenerife and just hope that the government here keeps the population as it is, a western European one. Maybe some will say this is a selfish attitude! You only get one short life and after working in the Middle East for 15 years, I don't want to have to come home and alter my western values here as well!! Just saying!!:pray:
I live in leicester and we have ghettoes in the city somalis pakistanis indians poles they all stick to their own areas and that is how they like it leicester is supposed to be integrated but ask the locals and it is not like that in real life that is how the european will finish up with such a big influx they will want to be with their own sort
I live in leicester and we have ghettoes in the city somalis pakistanis indians poles they all stick to their own areas and that is how they like it leicester is supposed to be integrated but ask the locals and it is not like that in real life that is how the european will finish up with such a big influx they will want to be with their own sort
Are they harming you?
Strangers in a strange land.....What would you do if you had to leave the life you know and take your family to another country?....:respect:
delderek
24-09-2015, 20:21
Are they harming you?
Strangers in a strange land.....What would you do if you had to leave the life you know and take your family to another country?....:respect:
Move to the wrong part of Leicester, and it is a strange country if you are English, Or Bradford or Stanmore, etc. When will we learn that people are still tribal and do not mix. Even the Welsh, Scottish, or English, do not take well to people of these tribes, moving into their territory.
essexeddie
24-09-2015, 20:36
I'd sooner they all stuck together than move next to me. At least we know where not to go. And I'm not talking about normal Europeans, I'm on about some of these sub humans that live like animals.
Move to the wrong part of Leicester, and it is a strange country if you are English, Or Bradford or Stanmore, etc. When will we learn that people are still tribal and do not mix. Even the Welsh, Scottish, or English, do not take well to people of these tribes, moving into their territory.
Why do we have to learn? They group together as too would I if I was in a strange land. I'm sure most of us have been in a position abroad where it's nice to hear a familiar accent.
The posts I'm seeing here make it sound like the old cowboy films where the Indians were portrayed as savages, circling the wagon train and scalping the occupants......Funny how years down the line we got to find out who was actually doing the killing isn't it?......Guys please, it's 2015.
This is not normal human wandering, this is an influx of People from a different culture.
Too many will tip the scales.......
I wonder why the refugees are all heading this way.?
Why does the Oil Countries not encourage them to go there.?
I wish I knew.........................................
essexeddie
24-09-2015, 21:39
It will all end in tears.
delderek
24-09-2015, 22:05
This is not normal human wandering, this is an influx of People from a different culture.
Too many will tip the scales.......
I wonder why the refugees are all heading this way.?
Why does the Oil Countries not encourage them to go there.?
I wish I knew.........................................
see post 4
so lets get it right. we in europe have got a good life. we run our country's well. our people are happy. and everything is ok. not perfect but everything is on an even keel. then you have the middle east. an unstable economy. different factions of the same religion killing each other. different factions trying to kill westerners. in fact trying to kill anyone they feel fit to?. then they decide they have had enough. and want to move to our seemingly eutopia. with their murderous ways and living the only way they know how. and we have to accept that? sorry but if that is what i have to look forward to in my retirement. then luckily we will have enough money to be able to move somewhere that is more civilised and more accommodating
so lets get it right. we in europe have got a good life. we run our country's well. our people are happy. and everything is ok. not perfect but everything is on an even keel. then you have the middle east. an unstable economy. different factions of the same religion killing each other. different factions trying to kill westerners. in fact trying to kill anyone they feel fit to?. then they decide they have had enough. and want to move to our seemingly eutopia. with their murderous ways and living the only way they know how. and we have to accept that? sorry but if that is what i have to look forward to in my retirement. then luckily we will have enough money to be able to move somewhere that is more civilised and more accommodating
God I hope that's not true marbro8 but it's a scary thought. Ok something has to be done about all the refugees, they can't all be bad and the children, at the moment, are the innocents caught up in it all. In an ideal,world all the countries taking in the refugees should've joined forces to make sure that they didn't have to leave in the first place, but after reading all previous posts it sounds all too complicated for that to be a solution. What or who is left in Syria etc will be like the lunatics running the asylum surely, and what will be the consequences of that for us all! We are fortunate in this country in as much as, if we break an arm we are fixed up immediately, we've lost a job we get state benefit, most of us have a roof over our heads, etc. I'm not saying it's perfect here but surely we're a damn sight better off than those refugees. I don't know how I would feel having to pack up lock stock and barrel and leave my home, having to cross water with the danger of drowning, or walk to other borders and then turned away! It is a humanitarian disaster, of that there is no doubt, but what is the answer, the politicians don't know either, but something has to be done, because they ain't going back. There are still huge areas of the world like Australia, Russia which aren't bursting at the seams like we now seem to be but whose gonna suggest that!! You would have to be a Middle Eastern expert to know the ins and outs of how it's got to this stage in the first place but from my limited knowledge I do believe it's to do with those countries resources, e.g. Oil, gas. Anyway this is just my view of it.
TheBloke
25-09-2015, 01:10
I'm happy the debate is good........I'll post tomorrow
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refugee is a word for someone fleeing a war...........immigrant is something else
I can't even comment here... I just read that "sub humans" are infiltrating the "culture" - I read that in Nazi Germany papers too... I read that the "immigrants" band together and don't integrate, don't even learn the language, set up their own shops with their own food and go around thinking they own the place... Are you talking about Tenerife Sur... Or Benidorm?
Education is very important, but we need idiots to vote for politicians... To paraphrase from the film "Remains of the day"... I'm sure sir, that giving the masses the vote will lead to dictatorship...
TheBloke
25-09-2015, 03:13
I think that you are saying nothing.....don't hold back say what you think....give us the benefit of your knowledge.
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Migration has been natural throughout human history for whatever reasons........this sudden one is planned!
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You appear to be a bleeding heart liberal,please don't tell me so.......Tim:hi:
1. My knowledge will not benefit you... you've already made up your mind...
2. Migration is natural and usually planned, I've planned every move I've made... refugees are forced from their homes...
3. I am not always what I appear... and I am not a label, i'm a referent. Who has a real name and a photo...
Goodnight.
TheBloke
25-09-2015, 03:31
Thank you for that great response Goodnight:tiphat:
Toto 99, I have lived in several countries over the years, by choice and not through war I may add. I have never taken anything from the government or people of those countries so have not been a burden! These migrants are another financial burden on many already struggling EU countries! You ask what would I do if I had to leave? I would go to a country that was as similar to my own culture as possible. Where the majority practice the same religion, have the same family values and work ethics. Turkey is their neighbor with a very similar way of life and no wars raging, Armenia, Georgia are there also! why did they not stop there?? Because they know EU countries will give them free handouts and medical care! They chose to put their children in paddling pool dinghies and let them drown in the Med just to get to a life of handouts! Just saying!!:mad:
Angusjim
25-09-2015, 06:44
Toto 99, I have lived in several countries over the years, by choice and not through war I may add. I have never taken anything from the government or people of those countries so have not been a burden! These migrants are another financial burden on many already struggling EU countries! You ask what would I do if I had to leave? I would go to a country that was as similar to my own culture as possible. Where the majority practice the same religion, have the same family values and work ethics. Turkey is their neighbor with a very similar way of life and no wars raging, Armenia, Georgia are there also! why did they not stop there?? Because they know EU countries will give them free handouts and medical care! They chose to put their children in paddling pool dinghies and let them drown in the Med just to get to a life of handouts! Just saying!!:mad:
But if you were desperate and wanted to give your family a chance of a better future would you not head to somewhere that can offer that. Just saying
But if you were desperate and wanted to give your family a chance of a better future would you not head to somewhere that can offer that. Just saying
Of course AJ it's a no brainier. But it doesn't make it right.and it's not the solution. I liken it to being in a boat in the middle of the ocean. The boat has a capacity of 50 and there are already 60 on board. And it is just above the water line. But there are 20 people in the water. What do you do? I know it's not as bad as that yet. But these people will need homes.jobs and medical care. I can't get into our local hospital now in less than 4 hours in an emergency. But all these European countries are doing is throwing money at the problem. How is that going to help long term?. And what happens to the thousands that have made it to Europe after the holes in the borders are closed?. And the hundreds of thousands left the other side?:confused:
Angusjim
25-09-2015, 08:50
Of course AJ it's a no brainier. But it doesn't make it right.and it's not the solution. I liken it to being in a boat in the middle of the ocean. The boat has a capacity of 50 and there are already 60 on board. And it is just above the water line. But there are 20 people in the water. What do you do? I know it's not as bad as that yet. But these people will need homes.jobs and medical care. I can't get into our local hospital now in less than 4 hours in an emergency. But all these European countries are doing is throwing money at the problem. How is that going to help long term?. And what happens to the thousands that have made it to Europe after the holes in the borders are closed?. And the hundreds of thousands left the other side?:confused:
So what is the answer everybody is saying what the issues are, but have no ideas about solutions, not easy I personally have no idea how to resolve this but blaming the refugees most of whom are just looking for a better life is not the answer.
You are right. I have watched the TV footage of these poor people( yes I am sympathetic to their plight). And they are being treated no better than animals. I know they are alive. Which is a step further than being killed in their own country. But that is about as good as it gets for them at the moment.if they want to stay in Europe then camps with water food toilets and medical care should be set up. With every European neighbour sending the amount of personnel they can spare. Then they should be registered and documented. This should only be a short term answer. Not like the prefabs we built after the Second World War that are still being lived in. Secondly this is a worldwide problem. Not just a European. So let's get the rest of the world involved. Instead of the shutting their curtains and thinking. If I can't see it it isn't happening. There are vast corners of the world that are still unoccupied. Maybe resettlement is the answer. But let's not botch it like we did with Israel. If resettlement is a viable option. And we create a new state. Then every country in the world to help fund it and get it up and running. I know it sounds both simplistic and ridiculous. But it ha seen done before.
essexeddie
25-09-2015, 17:34
The only solution is to make the countries that they are coming from stable so they stop leaving. But that's been done before with disastrous results.
I was amused by Mr Dowd's post. starting "I am not passing comment, followed by nearly three full lines of ?
but. perhaps the Magic Circle could provide a solution to OUR problem.
I noticed a tweet from Our Leader D.C. the other Day.
It was to wish all Muslims a happy something Day.
I don't mind that at all IF He then wishes Us Lot a happy Easter etc. Not holding My breath though.
Let's emphasise the National Debt and tell them all they pay their share?
We need a plan of action and Someone fit to carry it Out.
As Youve spoken sense marbro8 I propose You. Not too many do these Days....
TheBloke
25-09-2015, 21:09
send all refugees to the countries that bombed them out.....USA,GB etc.
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Only then will the idiots that vote for the bombers wake up
Excuse me... but A Civil War has been on going for the last 4 and more years in Syria..due to internal conflicts been Syrians of god knows how many different religions against each other ...
My opinion Gordon that had nothing at all to do with getting bombed out by anybody else.
the bottom line here is how do you help people stricken by internal wars when they themselves dont do anything to alleviate the situation ....
Alas they are still fighting each other ..
TheBloke
25-09-2015, 21:56
Did you read the post introducing the thread.......the war in Syria is not a civil war it's a war between the people who want to control a pipeline.
Use that thing called the internet to find out the truth.
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What you read in the papers is bull**** and lead by the agenda the owner or owners have.
here is a radical thought. how about some of the middle eastern countries taking in some of the refugees. or in fact some of them freeing up some land bordering say sudan, saudi arabia, jordan etc? at the end of the day they are some of the richest countries in the world. why shouldn't they shoulder some of the responsibility?
TheBloke
25-09-2015, 22:08
The civil war was concocted,ISIS were funded by the USA and they have failed to overthrow Assad and now uncle Vlad who was always a supporter of Assad has entered.This is going to end badly.
Did you read the post introducing the thread.......the war in Syria is not a civil war it's a war between the people who want to control a pipeline.
Use that thing called the internet to find out the truth.
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What you read in the papers is bull**** and lead by the agenda the owner or owners have.
You go and read WIKIPEDIA..
TheBloke
25-09-2015, 22:14
Marbro.......they don't want to go to another muslim country and the other muslim countries don't want them......Saudi Arabia offered to build 200 mosques in Germany though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Imablue i didn't mean to annoy you but you should really look for the truth rather than accept what you are told by the mainstream media by the way what the **** is wikipedia:wink2:
Marbro.......they don't want to go to another muslim country and the other muslim countries don't want them......Saudi Arabia offered to build 200 mosques in Germany though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Imablue i didn't mean to annoy you but you should really look for the truth rather than accept what you are told by the mainstream media by the way what the **** is wikipedia:wink2:i think i am a bit nive. i need to do a bit more research on the subject:wow:
your words.. read the internet.. anyway
as a thought you may want to read about a tyranist that rules by force and massacres his own people ...
https://haydenpirkle.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/bashar-al-assad-is-a-real-*******/
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Enough from me tonight goodnight .
TheBloke
25-09-2015, 22:51
The only form of control of countries in the middle east has been by dictatorship.They have been slowly killed off.......why.......don't judge your society as being the same as theirs because it isn't.
Tomorrow I'll post some links....Goodnight:wave:
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P.S great link Imablue thanks
i think i am a bit nive. i need to do a bit more research on the subject:wow:
I think mostly we are all the same when it comes to the Middle East Marbro8, we mostly read or hear what the media tell us. As you say you would have to dig deep to get a full picture, but I dont suppose we will ever get to the bottom of it far less a solution. I see it's a deeply touchy subject with lots of different views, but it's very difficult to watch all those refugees fleeing for their lives :dontknow:
I think mostly we are all the same when it comes to the Middle East Marbro8, we mostly read or hear what the media tell us. As you say you would have to dig deep to get a full picture, but I dont suppose we will ever get to the bottom of it far less a solution. I see it's a deeply touchy subject with lots of different views, but it's very difficult to watch all those refugees fleeing for their lives :dontknow:you are a wise girl LindaD:wink2:
you are a wise girl LindaD:wink2:
It's the night owl in me :laugh: by the way not been called a girl for a long time so thanks for that!:tiphat:
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There are two main groups of people knocking on the E.U. door
One are called Refugees from a war torn Country
the Others are called financial Immigrants from everywhere else.
Watching them it appears around 85% seem to be Young Men. Families to follow when they have got in....?
Credit to Cameron for taking those from Refugee Camps. Most will have to be genuine refugees.:scared:
Tony the Welder
27-09-2015, 08:00
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There are two main groups of people knocking on the E.U. door
One are called Refugees from a war torn Country
the Others are called financial Immigrants from everywhere else.
Watching them it appears around 85% seem to be Young Men. Families to follow when they have got in....?
Credit to Cameron for taking those from Refugee Camps. Most will have to be genuine refugees.:scared:
I think we all feel sorry for the refugees and I do think they need help, a lot of the genuine refugees will be stopping close to home in hope of going home one day, the immigrants should be told in no uncertain words there is no free hand outs for them ,if you do not pay in to the system you will not get anything from the system, how many people came here to go on benefits,get free housing and medical care , when I came here I was told if I did not pay into the social system my child could not even go to state school , why should these immigrant have it so easy , I feel sorry for the few that have to work to keep so many
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