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View Full Version : What are your thoughts on Thursday's Strike in the UK?



sundownersvince
29-06-2011, 13:59
My partner (civil servant 54yo) is going on strike tomorrow. She is well p****d off because she may have to work until she's 66 and they are effectively going to reduce her pension from now on. Not too pleased myself as I was looking forward to becoming a swallow in 6 years time! Your thoughts............

tonypub
29-06-2011, 14:04
a woman should work as long as a man,its equallity you know.they wanted it so why bleet when they get it.:whistle::run: im off lol.

Pink shoes
29-06-2011, 14:11
I think just because they are civil servants why should they be any diffrent from those of us on a min. wage. I too have to wait till I am 66 to get a state pension.

KirstyJay
29-06-2011, 14:12
Is this in Tenerife or the UK?

Len77
29-06-2011, 14:12
Get on with it.... So do I ......:cry:and I am paying for her pension.:whip: (private sector and proud of it) :crylaughing:

videotalker
29-06-2011, 14:40
Instead of going on strike, they should open their eyes and realise how lucky they are to actually HAVE a job with a decent pension in this climate - why should they be any different from anyone else who is going to work to 66?

No sympathy from me (bet you guessed that), what about all the people affected by their striking? The parents having to take time off for the teachers, holiday makers stranded from 9pm tonight as the Border Force going on strike and perhaps airport security.......... no way to gain public support!

KirstyJay
29-06-2011, 14:49
Again.., Tenerife or uk, as this is posted in Tenerife General Chat.

MrsTT
29-06-2011, 14:50
Moved thread into general chat as the planned strikes are in the UK.

slodgedad
29-06-2011, 14:54
Again.., Tenerife or uk, as this is posted in Tenerife General Chat.


Moved thread into general chat as the planned strikes are in the UK.

And I have retitled it

MrsTT
29-06-2011, 14:56
And I have retitled it

It is difficult to change things when 2 of us are working on it at the same time!!!!!!!!!!

sundownersvince
29-06-2011, 15:09
Sorry I had to go out, but yes it is only in the UK but I am an owner and regular in Tenerife. And Tony I couldnt agree more mate, but try telling her that!

Sundowner
29-06-2011, 15:20
At one time civil service pay was low compared to the private sector and a decent pension was your reward ! Now civil service pay is on a par with the private sector, so a nice pension and early retirement paid for by the hardworking tax payer is no longer justified IMO.

sundownersvince
29-06-2011, 15:51
He he.....She will be pleased with all this sympathy.:eyebrows:

atlantico
29-06-2011, 16:25
strikes in the private sector can actually harm that business and put their jobs in jeopardy , . . . . . . . and now that can happen in the public sector too !

Local authorities in theory could go bust (in practice they won't), but giving in to strike demands will put pressure on them to cut costs elsewhere - which will result in strikes from other public sectors sections ie hospitals, so it's a never ending roundabout.

Giving in to strikers, IMHO, is the same as giving in to terrorists ! Which no one does !!

garlicbread
29-06-2011, 16:48
Some information for travellers during the strike is here

http://ukinspain.fco.gov.uk/en/news/?view=News&id=623438382

junglejim
29-06-2011, 17:43
Public sector pension were part of the attraction of these jobs as previously stated - the problem is as longevity improves then the cost rises but this has been going on for more than a decade and nobody was prepared to bite the bullet and address issues .
When you agree your contract of employment it also includes your pension scheme if you have one and alterations have to be negotiated , not imposed when you have a representational right .
Some of the public sector schemes were renegotiated as recently as 2007 with significant changes .
Private sector schemes are also part of contracts and generally have to be renegotiated - all these schemes are actuarially reviewed every 3 years to ensure they meet their liabilities ( when in surplus the companies tak a pension holiday but employees usually never stop contributing).
Big issues with most schemes recently is the fall in financial markets and the loss of tax allowance on certain contributions as well as "Gordonīs raid several years ago on funds) .
Many companies have moved away from final salary schemes where all risk is with them and none on employee to money purchase schemes where risk is with employee and market forces , companies then know what their liabilities are in terms of contributions .
The isue of changing the qualifying age for state pension and equalising sexes is a hard blow for women in particular allied to occupational schemes upheaval .
Itīs not a crime to have an occupational sheme but some people seem to think it is !
It wasnīt a crime for Fred Goodwin of RSB to stroll off with a pension of around half a million despite dragging RSB into almost oblivion whilst having it off with a colleague ! Bankers still get their bonuses , MPīs have one of the best pension schemes in UK and still get a handsome payoff when voted out for being crap .
The Public sector are getting well hammered for somebody elseīs screw-ups and lack of foresight - they have a right to defend their conditions.
I retired early on a private sector pension but had the foresight to put extra away to be able to afford it - especially before the company change to a money purchase scheme which was virtually wiped out in recent crash and then had to revert back to placate empoyees who lost fortunes !
The feeling on the Governmentīs approach and attack on public sector conditions is running high and Idonīt think youīve seen the worst yet !!
In the 21st century surely retiring at 68 + is a regressive step and we should be looking to go earlier?

TIS
29-06-2011, 17:47
Again.., Tenerife or uk, as this is posted in Tenerife General Chat.

Keep up Kirsty - They are on about UK.

I don't understand why so many people post in a Tenerife forum about problems in the UK. Why not use a UK forum?

Added after 7 minutes:


....
In the 21st century surely retiring at 68 + is a regressive step and we should be looking to go earlier?
errr? You seem to understand most financial things, so why not the issue that there are simply not going to be enough "workers" supporting an ageing population otherwise known as the "baby boom", so we all have to change. Remember, say 30 years ago, most people died at 65 so not many were actually drawing on a pension, but as the average person now dies about 83-87, we are all looking to be pensioners for 20 odd years and somebody has to fund this!

candy2411
29-06-2011, 18:18
errr? You seem to understand most financial things, so why not the issue that there are simply not going to be enough "workers" supporting an ageing population otherwise known as the "baby boom", so we all have to change. Remember, say 30 years ago, most people died at 65 so not many were actually drawing on a pension, but as the average person now dies about 83-87, we are all looking to be pensioners for 20 odd years and somebody has to fund this![/QUOTE]

Completely agree with your comment...if the country can't afford the timebomb that is future pensions then economies have to be made and thats's simple budgetting surely.

Most of the schools in my area are closed tomorrow, the kids think its great but parents especially working ones have suddenly got to pay expensive childcare or take a day off work.

This surely is not going to get the public onside.

Another thing, the media are reporting there are probably going to be delays at airports so anyone travelling tomorrow be prepared.

junglejim
29-06-2011, 20:35
Keep up Kirsty - They are on about UK.

I don't understand why so many people post in a Tenerife forum about problems in the UK. Why not use a UK forum?

Added after 7 minutes:


errr? You seem to understand most financial things, so why not the issue that there are simply not going to be enough "workers" supporting an ageing population otherwise known as the "baby boom", so we all have to change. Remember, say 30 years ago, most people died at 65 so not many were actually drawing on a pension, but as the average person now dies about 83-87, we are all looking to be pensioners for 20 odd years and somebody has to fund this!


We always seem to have enough money to fight wars , build Trident ,Aircraft carriers with no planes ,not to mention some of the social security fraudsters that sit in pub all day etc.
Pensions are run on Actuarial basis using statistical data on living trends - governments should be adjusting funds - some of public pension schemes are going to cost less in future , not more .
The life expectancy is actually a little less now than you suggest and was nowhere near 65 30yrs ago ( see link to actuarial tables)
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/CCI/nugget.asp?ID=168
the increase over last 10 yrs is only a couple of years better , so there has been no dramatic increase.
The government dogma ( IMHO) is to roll back the benefits people have accrued over the years to make us a low wage , easy to sack workforce scared to stand up for what we have earned .
If people donīt have an adequate occupational pension the the state will have to support them in the long term, state pensions are earned by workers NI contributions , if they have to work on longer then there will be fewer jobs available for younger generation also

LeFrunk
29-06-2011, 20:55
I have no sympathy with civil servants , cushy jobs more or less for life and i pay them , the construction workers have taken a massive cut in wages and not a ******* word about it . I had to cut my lads wages 20% just to keep the work comming in , i have taken a 40% / 45% cut in my wages so it ****** me right off when white collar layabouts start gurning about pay and conditions , they need to look around themselves , they also need to try working outside in the middle of winter and then , just then they might care about other workers who dont have the privliges they have . Glad to get that of my chest .

pablo1
29-06-2011, 21:02
In a nutshell people are being asked to work longer for less. Why should they just sit back and accept it?
Had the government gone to the negotiating table with some semblance of a resolution then we wouldn't be where we are tomorrow, but as per, their bulldog in a china shop approach has meant that no offers were on the table, just a " This is how it is, like it or lump it " attitude.
I'm fully aware that the coffers are running dry, but maybe we should crack down on the doleys who have their 50" plasmas and enough money to be in the pub most days instead of our educated lifeblood who's job it is to turn todays children into adults with pride, self-respect and an ability to earn their way in life instead of sponging off the rest of us.....

Davie Thistle
29-06-2011, 21:21
............this fuggin government is hunting for a scapegoat to take the blame for the state of the country.
so what do they do?
start a fight so they can blame the strikers, - Any strikers!
instead of jailing these fatcat b,stards and all they parasites that have run the country into the ground.
they screw us hard working honest backbone of the country for every penny we have,
usual pish..
the rich get richer they rest of us in the workhouse.
& I'm not a civil servant or that,
I also don't contribute to any kind of scheme,
I don't have a choice,
I'm one of the millions that don't have the luxury of a works pension.
So I say good luck to them, but I fear it's a fart in a hurricane!

junglejim
29-06-2011, 21:23
Just some comments on Huttons report:
a) In his interim report, Lord Hutton pointed out that the cost of public sector pensions was dropping by 25% already.

This was the result of pensions in payment being tagged to the Consumer Prices Index (CPI) measure of inflation, rather that the Retail Prices Index (RPI) which is traditionally higher. The pension age has also been raised to 65 for most new recruits in many schemes.

With more job losses to come and a pay freeze in place, the cost will continue to fall.
Lord Hutton denied this in his interim report, saying that "there is no evidence that pay is lower for public sector workers to reflect higher levels of pension provision".

b)Although 85% of public service employees contribute to a pension, he said that these pensions were far from "gold-plated", with the average pension in payment currently at a "modest" Ģ7,800 a year. Around half of public service pensioners received less than Ģ5,600 a year.

Hardly a Kingīs ransom !

Jackie Buyer
29-06-2011, 21:30
I have no sympathy for the strikers. I have worked for the last 40 years in the private sector, 13 years ago after 20 years in a final salary pension scheme we were told the company was closing it. When asked what our options were we were told (exact words) 'we will terminate your employment & see you in court'
No sympathy for us hard working private sector - final salary cancelled & we just had to grin & bear it.

pablo1
29-06-2011, 21:33
I have no sympathy for the strikers. I have worked for the last 40 years in the private sector, 13 years ago after 20 years in a final salary pension scheme we were told the company was closing it. When asked what our options were we were told (exact words) 'we will terminate your employment & see you in court'
No sympathy for us hard working private sector - final salary cancelled & we just had to grin & bear it.

It doesn't make it right though does it?
If everyones attitude had been the same we'd still be living in the 1800's

Jackie Buyer
29-06-2011, 21:39
It doesn't make it right though does it?
If everyones attitude had been the same we'd still be living in the 1800's

No your correct, its not right that they should strike

pablo1
29-06-2011, 21:41
No your correct, its not right that they should strike

Ah, I see what you did there! :-)

Jackie
29-06-2011, 21:41
Do people really think there is going to be any money left in the pot to pay any pensions in the coming years? Private pension are going to be no better, mine won't be worth a t***, so I won't be relying on it.

Only way to get money out of the UK Governement is to rename yourself Greece or any other flailing Country that they lend money to regardless of the fact that the Country is in debt up to the armpits itself???

Jackie Buyer
29-06-2011, 21:43
Ah, I see what you did there! :-)

Pablo 1, Sorry x

pablo1
29-06-2011, 21:50
No need. It's a pretty emotive subject and those on either side are well within their rights to air their views.
My wife is a Teacher and she worked hard in University to be able to get into a job that she knew was going to be rewarding, not financially, but in job satisfaction.
That said, the fact that what little she is going to earn is actually shrinking is a blow.
She certainly won't be getting any reimbursements on what it cost to put herself through University. :-)

reggie
29-06-2011, 21:55
Hey up, there's more diesel cars than petrol now, what we going to do ?, I know lets shaft them, put the price up more than petrol, even though diesel is cheaper to produce, that should get a few billion in, so we can waste that on wars and imigrants, now what, well ive been thinking, you know all that money we rob out of there wages to pay the pensions, they seem to be living longer, so lets shaft them again , put the retirement age up to 105, thats should slow things down a bit, until we think of something else, Hey up, lets fu-k the health service up and old peoples homes, so they die and get bug-er all, Yeh good plan,

with cheese
29-06-2011, 22:32
This is a ground testing exercise by the gov, to see what they can get away with. They have chosen this section as a massive effect on most peoples lives. This leads to the general public losing sight very quickly of the real issue and turning to getting fed up with the strikers. Please don't do this because it will be you or some one you know next, give them support.
If we did not support so many foreigners and scroungers, plus give all the lazy b@stard fat cats, bankers, mp's and health care administrators so much dosh there would be loads to go round.

AJP
29-06-2011, 22:33
With the strikes starting tomorrow,Major UK "household name" high street outlets closing.The NHS on its knees.......its nice to know that our chancellor of the Exchequer has his priorities right..............you couldn,t make it up
http://www.efinancialnews.com/story/2011-06-29/pippa-middleton-osborne-and-king-on-the-edge-of-their-seats-for-greek-vote

reggie
29-06-2011, 22:37
This is a ground testing exercise by the gov, to see what they can get away with. They have chosen this section as a massive effect on most peoples lives. This leads to the general public losing sight very quickly of the real issue and turning to getting fed up with the strikers. Please don't do this because it will be you or some one you know next, give them support.
If we did not support so many foreigners and scroungers, plus give all the lazy b@stard fat cats, bankers, mp's and health care administrators so much dosh there would be loads to go round.

Thats more or less what i said, innit, look after yourselves, dont trust any financial advisors, or this bl--dy goverment, do as many cash jobs as you can, pay as little tax as you can, look after number 1, nobody else will, trust me, i'm right

with cheese
29-06-2011, 22:39
Well damn close mate, I was just a bit posher, but if you continue harrassing me I will strike.

reggie
29-06-2011, 22:42
Well damn close mate, I was just a bit posher, but if you continue harrassing me I will strike.

If everybody was self employed, there wouldnt be any strikes, and the job would get done, or you dont get payed,

with cheese
29-06-2011, 22:43
Can I work for you then, I don't mind if its on the cards.

reggie
29-06-2011, 22:51
Can I work for you then, I don't mind if its on the cards.

I dont want any responsabilitys, i'm stress free, and its fu-k all to do with donkeys, And its goodnight from him :raspberry:

TIS
30-06-2011, 00:19
We always seem to have enough money to fight wars , build Trident ,Aircraft carriers with no planes ,not to mention some of the social security fraudsters that sit in pub all day etc.
Pensions are run on Actuarial basis using statistical data on living trends - governments should be adjusting funds - some of public pension schemes are going to cost less in future , not more .
The life expectancy is actually a little less now than you suggest and was nowhere near 65 30yrs ago ( see link to actuarial tables)
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/CCI/nugget.asp?ID=168
the increase over last 10 yrs is only a couple of years better , so there has been no dramatic increase.
The government dogma ( IMHO) is to roll back the benefits people have accrued over the years to make us a low wage , easy to sack workforce scared to stand up for what we have earned .
If people donīt have an adequate occupational pension the the state will have to support them in the long term, state pensions are earned by workers NI contributions , if they have to work on longer then there will be fewer jobs available for younger generation also

When you talk about "the government" most people refer to the current one i.e. Conservatives. It is truely a problem not properly addressed by any party, but given that Labour were in for the previous 13 years, took over the country with the largest surplus budget in history and left with the largest deficit in history - it is no wonder they are not really making a fuss about the strikes, which goes to prove as somebody else said, no matter what party you prefer, the MPs are only in it for themselves.


I have no sympathy with civil servants , cushy jobs more or less for life and i pay them , the construction workers have taken a massive cut in wages and not a fekn word about it . I had to cut my lads wages 20% just to keep the work comming in , i have taken a 40% / 45% cut in my wages so it pisses me right off when white collar layabouts start gurning about pay and conditions , they need to look around themselves , they also need to try working outside in the middle of winter and then , just then they might care about other workers who dont have the privliges they have . Glad to get that of my chest .

Quite agree - welcome to the real world all Civil Servants.

sundownersvince
30-06-2011, 01:15
If everybody was self employed, there wouldnt be any strikes, and the job would get done, or you dont get payed,

I have been self-employed now Reggie since I was about 18. Maybe i'm a bit too old now but I have been on Struggle Street now for what seems like ages. I always used to have a wallet full of cash but now it seems much harder to come by. Patsy is going on strike tomorrow and I cannot condone it, goes against all my principles, but she has been working in a s**t job for 30+ years, gets abuse from 'clients' all day and then gets bullied, and I'm not using that term lightly, by the upper echelons of the civil service who seem to take great delight in making everybodys day a misery. I'm not too sure who to blame for everything thats gone wrong these days, maybe politicians? Bankers? PC brigade or perhaps the multi culturalists, but I now seem to be living in a Britain I no longer recognise. Obviously her action tomorrow isn't going to make a blind bit of difference to the powers that be, but sooner or later the minority, and the real workers are now becoming the minority, need to attempt to make their voices heard. And thanks to all those who have contributed to this thread.

Angusjim
30-06-2011, 06:59
Why do local authorities allow early retirement for teachers & nurses etc then re employ them as a supply teachers & nurses via agencies paying them more than they were previously earning + their pensions seems crazy ?

candy2411
30-06-2011, 08:40
They do it because they have no contractual obligations re holidays, sick leave etc and they can pick and choose the personnel they really want.

Yes the selected few who get taken on via agencies probably earn more that they would have otherwise , but they are in the minority, and none of it is guaranteed.

I have a permanent position in the private sector where a vast number of people are employed as temporary staff . They have no security, income is not taken into account when applying for loans, mortgages and their employment can be terminated almost immediately.

Everyone works to their best ability in the hope they may be offered permanency and have all the security of salary/pension/private healthcare etc

No unions here and no-one would dream of taking strike action.

Maybe the government workers have had it all too cosy for too long and its time many of them joined the REAL world.

This strike will achieve nothing and people must realise we're all in this economic mess together and no-one deserves or should get preferential treatment.

theedge92
30-06-2011, 08:53
Teachers get paid enough, if not too much. I don't see any reason to strike, apart from a petty excuse not to work. You don't see our soldiers (who actually deserve to be on better wages) striking because of the cuts in the armed forces. Children have now lost a days education because of these strikes, bit selfish don't you think? All i can say is just get on with, stop moaning your getting paid enough.

candy2411
30-06-2011, 09:01
Children are delighted to get a day off school I'm sure! what about working parents who've suddenly been forced into taking a day off work themselves as the schools are closed.... I mean its only a matter of weeks and the schools are closed for summer holidays.

Did they think of staging this strike in the middle of their school holidays? no chance of that of course

Len77
30-06-2011, 11:16
Guess theres not a lot of sympathy in here for the public sector .......The TRUTH IS THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH !! SAMUAL JOHNSON said (about the truth) you cant bend it, you cant alter it, you cant change it.......(take a look here) :whistle:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2009669/Great-pensions-divide-Private-sector-staff-pay-match-state-worker-benefits.html

junglejim
30-06-2011, 13:48
Guess theres not a lot of sympathy in here for the public sector .......The TRUTH IS THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH !! SAMUAL JOHNSON said (about the truth) you cant bend it, you cant alter it, you cant change it.......(take a look here) :whistle:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2009669/Great-pensions-divide-Private-sector-staff-pay-match-state-worker-benefits.html

Interesting article from right-wing Daily mail - I note in article the cost as % of GDP of pensions in UK is way below any of other poorer UE countries , even for future projections .
The " calculation " that a public service worker if starting on 22K ( at say age 20 ) would get a pension of 26K on retiring in 46years ( at least) - given an assumption of 3% rises then in 46 years his salary would be about 86K which would make his pension 30% of his salary i.e. 6,600 in todayīs terms
hardly a gold plated living !

Added after 6 minutes:


They do it because they have no contractual obligations re holidays, sick leave etc and they can pick and choose the personnel they really want.

Yes the selected few who get taken on via agencies probably earn more that they would have otherwise , but they are in the minority, and none of it is guaranteed.

I have a permanent position in the private sector where a vast number of people are employed as temporary staff . They have no security, income is not taken into account when applying for loans, mortgages and their employment can be terminated almost immediately.

Everyone works to their best ability in the hope they may be offered permanency and have all the security of salary/pension/private healthcare etc

No unions here and no-one would dream of taking strike action.

Maybe the government workers have had it all too cosy for too long and its time many of them joined the REAL world.

This strike will achieve nothing and people must realise we're all in this economic mess together and no-one deserves or should get preferential treatment.

Candy , the company I worked for, GSK ,make more than 2 BILLION profit a year but still went down the road of redundancy , employment on temporary contracts, change to a money purchase scheme despite the unions fighting it all the way , just the modern trend of grinding down labour costs anyway they can- and they ended up on our site re-employing a large number of redundant staff because they got it wrong and couldnīt supply the market !

BobMac
30-06-2011, 14:15
Maybe the government workers have had it all too cosy for too long and its time many of them joined the REAL world.



I've worked in both sectors and I can categorically say from personal experience that there are a lot of people working in the public sector who wouldn't last 5 minutes in the private sector - they have no idea what it actually means to do a full days work

candy2411
30-06-2011, 14:58
I've worked in both sectors and I can categorically say from personal experience that there are a lot of people working in the public sector who wouldn't last 5 minutes in the private sector - they have no idea what it actually means to do a full days work

I too worked in the public sector for many years before I joined private enterprise. In fact, one of the reasons I was so happy to leave the public sector was that quite frankly I hated it . A huge percentage of the people I worked with were certainly not up to the job they were employed to do, long term sick leave on dubious grounds was all too evident, and all too convenient on full time pay for six months at a time.

It was regarded by many as once they were in, it was a job for life with an index linked pension at the end . A lot would then spend 20-30 years doing as little as they could get away with, I quite honestly wouldn't have employed most of them and as you have said, they wouldn't last 5 mins in the private sector where you have to continually show and prove your worth.

As for the strikes today, it is beyond comprehension why they think the proposed pension changes shouldn't apply to them and I find the arrogance of it all quite annoying to say the least

BobMac
30-06-2011, 15:11
As for the strikes today, it is beyond comprehension why they think the proposed pension changes shouldn't apply to them and I find the arrogance of it all quite annoying to say the least

Maybe it would have been less of a problem for the government to sell it to the unions if they had announced that the MP's were accepting the changes to their pension scheme right away before they announced the proposed changes to the public sector schemes.

Len77
30-06-2011, 17:27
Reminds me of a joke Ken Dodd used to tell...............
Three little boys arguing........my Dad is better than your Dad !!

1st boy........My Dads that fast if you fire a gun:gun: he can catch the bullet in his teeth.

2nd boy ...... Thats nothing......my Dads that fast if you fire an arrow he will run after it:run: and catch it under him arm.

3rd boy.....Nah ! My Dad works for Liverpool City Councils Works Department......... he knocks off at 4-00 and is in the house at 2-00. :whistle: