View Full Version : Is the old Tenerife Forum going to come back?
micknova
06-07-2011, 23:32
is the old forum ever gonna come back
does anyone else think the old forum was so much better
my opinion i know just wondered if im alone or not on that opinion
Drum roll .... yes, the old forum will be back within the next month :)
I happen to prefer the newer version, so everyone will be pleased when we can merge the two.
micknova
06-07-2011, 23:42
yeah sounds a good plan that does thanks for letting me no
TenerifeTeddy
06-07-2011, 23:43
There is a lot of work going on behind the scenes to recover all the information from the old forum and to merge the forums together. There will be an announcement on progress in the near future. As for the old forum being much better, I canīt see why you would say this, it now consists of many of the old active members, much of the information of the old posts has been transported across, and many of the topics continue as before.
The new forum is (comparitively) bug free, and because Admins & the Mod team have full access to all administrative functions, we are much more able to help with technical issues that the members have. Which was not the case before. Most help tickets are now able to be resolved, where previously many languished for months because we did not have the permissions to deal with the issues involved.
Why do people keep saying the old forum was better, apart from having a lot more posts (that will reappear in time) everything else is the same.... Am I missing something ???
sundownersvince
06-07-2011, 23:51
Bug? Who me?????????
micknova
06-07-2011, 23:53
obviously you are missng something if im not the only one saying this and you keep hearing people say it then yeah there is something not right
ok the admin and mod team like it but from the sounds of things not many of the members do
i like the idea of merging them both together i look forward to seeing this i think thats a great idea
but im not the only person to prefer the old one as i keep getting pm from members who dare not even post on this thread fearing the mods will take there brownie points away and remove all there posts
im saying all this to try help the forum so hope noone is offended with anything i say im just giving my opinion
I still disagree... but each to there own ;)
obviously you are missng something if im not the only one saying this and you keep hearing people say it then yeah there is something not right
ok the admin and mod team like it but from the sounds of things not many of the members do
i like the idea of merging them both together i look forward to seeing this i think thats a great idea
but im not the only person to prefer the old one as i keep getting pm from members who dare not even post on this thread fearing the mods will take there brownie points away and remove all there posts
im saying all this to try help the forum so hope noone is offended with anything i say im just giving my opinion
Really - it's not exactly a dictatorship here :lol: Some posts have been moved, some deleted, a few knuckles rapped, one poor member spammed-out by mistake and we have apologised .. and there have been some infractions for racist and abusive language for which I see no need to apologise.
with cheese
07-07-2011, 00:05
Blimey, I didn't get one point on the old forum but on here I have had loads and a secret banning (so did Reggie) for 2 days.
Mind you when I looked in as a guest people were really bored and the people on line were low,might be trolls as Slodge calls us, but we certainly keep the threads alive.
I have to say the banter and mood here on the whole is pretty good. A few characters who previously clashed seem to have come to an understanding but there will always be the odd *******. The forum has a good feel about it.
micknova
07-07-2011, 00:08
i totally agree with the racist and abusive language which i agree members like that dont deserve to be allowed to post as it is down right disgusting
i just personally feel the admin and mods have just got far too carried away with moving deleting and spamming-out by mistake this does not include racist and abusive language that i think is totally unacceptable like you said
but within 5 mins of me putting this thread up i have members messaging me telling me to be carefull cause admin and mod team wont like it bla bla bla
which to me proves members are a little scared to put posts up as they worry what will be said
i must say i dont feel the admin and mods have reacted like they dont like the thread and i must admit im quite impressed with the response i have had and also i think it was usefull as we now know whats happening regards to the forum which again i thankyou for letting me know about the old forum merging with new one
Blimey, I didn't get one point on the old forum but on here I have had loads and a secret banning (so did Reggie) for 2 days.
Mind you when I looked in as a guest people were really bored and the people on line were low,might be trolls as Slodge calls us, but we certainly keep the threads alive.
I would have banned you for much longer, and publicly.... :whistle:
I haven't had any such pm's, and carried on posting as I previously did... things are a bit quieter, but many forums are like that during the summer months, and pick up again come September when holidays have finished. I certainly haven't felt it is being moderated any differently to the old one...
Having said all that, I am blonde.... :D
with cheese
07-07-2011, 00:20
So racist remarks said in jest should get poster banned. I have a lot of various different coloured mates, but MAKE RACIST JOKES, DOESN'T MAKE ME A RACIST.
It is ok though for a person to completely and disgustingly rip into Gay life. I said poof, which to me is the same as me saying ****, it is said in jest.
micknova
07-07-2011, 00:21
I would have banned you for much longer, and publicly.... :whistle:
I haven't had any such pm's, and carried on posting as I previously did... things are a bit quieter, but many forums are like that during the summer months, and pick up again come September when holidays have finished. I certainly haven't felt it is being moderated any differently to the old one...
Having said all that, I am blonde.... :D
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
ahhh now u say that i understand
sundownersvince
07-07-2011, 00:24
Seconded! TEN
So racist remarks said in jest should get poster banned. I have a lot of various different coloured mates, but MAKE RACIST JOKES, DOESN'T MAKE ME A RACIST.
It is ok though for a person to completely and disgustingly rip into Gay life. I said poof, which to me is the same as me saying ****, it is said in jest.
When did this all happen, whilst I was poorly? I thought you were joking when you said you'd both had a 2 day ban... ???
When did this all happen, whilst I was poorly? I thought you were joking when you said you'd both had a 2 day ban... ???
Me too.....................
Me too.....................
Oh good, I'm not the only one that doesn't know what everybody's going on about.... :D
with cheese
07-07-2011, 06:52
no joke, no warning, nowt, just because Reggie joked about burn a Koran for relief and added I am going to bed now. My reply was I agree.............donk, no more able to log in for 2 days.
I would have banned you for much longer, and publicly.... :whistle:
I haven't had any such pm's, and carried on posting as I previously did... things are a bit quieter, but many forums are like that during the summer months, and pick up again come September when holidays have finished. I certainly haven't felt it is being moderated any differently to the old one...
Having said all that, I am blonde.... :D
"September when holidays have finished"??? Some have but not for me Sept 27th and counting.
And I think the forum is better now!!!
I think this forum is fine!
Some of the new features are good too.
Let's look forward, not back, eh!!
How many times do people say, we are not all the same, I read things and think dont like that, but move on to something else, I dont go snitching to who ever, Religion sucks to me, i have no space in my head for it, so i'l take the **** out of some loon, you all laugh and have a go at JW's, Why, because to them its serious as allah and muslims, but they seem to warrant more respect, not from me, so if i mention burn the koran, why should i get binned for 2 days, Yesterday i was called a troll, and dont contribute anything, why do i get so many PM's saying i fell of my chair laughing at that, Troll my ****, Certain types that are skint, and unemployed, who have there apartments repossesed, love playing god, its all they have, there potless because the have ****** everthing up the wall, so take great delight in banning someone who they envy, ie have a roof over there heads, and have a sense of humour, not to mention being a babe magnet, mean people i hate, nearly as much as asians,
howard thornton
07-07-2011, 09:59
How many times do people say, we are not all the same, I read things and think dont like that, but move on to something else, I dont go snitching to who ever, Religion sucks to me, i have no space in my head for it, so i'l take the p-ss out of some loon, you all laugh and have a go at JW's, Why, because to them its serious as allah and muslims, but they seem to warrant more respect, not from me, so if i mention burn the koran, why should i get binned for 2 days, Yesterday i was called a troll, and dont contribute anything, why do i get so many PM's saying i fell of my chair laughing at that, Troll my ar-e, Certain types that are skint, and unemployed, who have there apartments repossesed, love playing god, its all they have, there potless because the have pi--ed everthing up the wall, so take great delight in banning someone who they envy, ie have a roof over there heads, and have a sense of humour, not to mention being a babe magnet, mean people i hate, nearly as much as p-kis,
don't pull any punches reggie.
TenerifeTeddy
07-07-2011, 10:14
The rules on using the forum , which by the way, all members agree to by using the forum in the first place, are there for the protection of all. This is a family forum, and whilst anyone is free to express their opinion, it must be done within the framework of the forum rules.
The moderating team always aim to be impartial and fair , but are also only human. We try to let threads continue, but when things get out of hand, then we have to apply the rules. Unfortunately this most often happens on the more controversial threads that cover aspects of race or religion.
Regardless of anyones opinion, racist and abusive comments will NOT be tolerated and will be removed, and as appropriate the offending member will be either warned or infracted, enough infractions will lead to a ban, either temporary or permanent.
Again, members agree to this by using this forum, so that other members can read and participate in threads, without fear of harrassment or having to wade thorugh reams of offensive material.
There are too many posts for us to read through every one, and we rely on other members to report posts that they consider breach the forum rules. When we receive these reports we look at them and take appropriate action, or not , if we donīt think the rules have been broken.
Any individual who thinks he is being overmodded, perhaps ought to think why that may be. Could it possibly be that they are not posting within the terms and condiditons of the forum they are using.???
with cheese
07-07-2011, 10:37
well said Reggie and in reply to Tenerife Teddy, the rules only apply to certain people if you are a MOD or a friend of one you can say what you like.
Slodge can insult people and have a laugh when he wants, no objections but let the rest of us do it. Without the banter squad this forum would be dull and a mere few postings a day. Check out the opposition if you take out the banter there would be very little posted.
What needs to be removed are the whingers and groaners, the ones that constantly refer to others as PLEBS or Scum. Not Ok to call a non named person a **** but ok to refer to another member as PLEB. One rule and one rule.
Mates Rates.
onelegnofeet
07-07-2011, 10:43
Regardless of anyones opinion, racist and abusive comments will NOT be tolerated and will be removed, and as appropriate the offending member will be either warned or infracted, enough infractions will lead to a ban, either temporary or permanent.
It does seem though its ok to call gays though ?? Comparing them to having intercourse with dogs !!!.................thats really family friendly .
Yes i have not pressed the report button ,but as part of the moderating team have been on the thread ,i thought action would have been forth coming .......but hey
Malteser Monkey
07-07-2011, 10:52
I've kept well out of that thread - it's a disgrace and disgusting, offensive shall I continue ? I know we have our opinions but any self respecting person would not steep so low ! nuff said !
howard thornton
07-07-2011, 10:52
well said Reggie and in reply to Tenerife Teddy, the rules only apply to certain people if you are a MOD or a friend of one you can say what you like.
Slodge can insult people and have a laugh when he wants, no objections but let the rest of us do it. Without the banter squad this forum would be dull and a mere few postings a day. Check out the opposition if you take out the banter there would be very little posted.
What needs to be removed are the whingers and groaners, the ones that constantly refer to others as PLEBS or Scum. Not Ok to call a non named person a **** but ok to refer to another member as PLEB. One rule and one rule.
Mates Rates. its a case of take it or leave it.:sailor2:
howard thornton
07-07-2011, 10:54
I've kept well out of that thread - it's a disgrace and disgusting, offensive shall I continue ? I know we have our opinions but any self respecting person would not steep so low ! nuff said !
good morning monkey, quite right.
TenerifeTeddy
07-07-2011, 10:55
It does seem though its ok to call gays though ?? Comparing them to having intercourse with dogs !!!.................thats really family friendly .
Yes i have not pressed the report button ,but as part of the moderating team have been on the thread ,i thought action would have been forth coming .......but hey
As stated, we canīt read every post. If you find something offensive please report it so it can be looked at.
onelegnofeet
07-07-2011, 11:11
I've kept well out of that thread -
FIBBER !!!!!!............................................ ............................................lol
I often check whoīs online just to see if the membership is growing...there are often as many guests as members online at the same time...I wonder why some of them donīt join.
Malteser Monkey
07-07-2011, 11:38
well when you read threads like the aforementioned (ooo get me with the long words) I'm not surprised at all !!!
I often check whoīs online just to see if the membership is growing...there are often as many guests as members online at the same time...I wonder why some of them donīt join.
At the moment there are 74 users online, 29 members and 45 guests, The forum does seem to have been quiet of late.
Enough people ... those who remember the old version of the Forum will be well aware that this thread would have been closed by now and probably some infractions issued for questioning Mods decisions.
The people that are being criticised here have worked so hard for so many weeks to save this Community - if you don't want to abide by reasonable rules and respect your fellow members and especially those working long hours for no payment to keep this valuable resource going, then off with you: this Forum is far bigger than just a few Egos who think their posts are the most important/most hilarious or whatever.
well when you read threads like the aforementioned (ooo get me with the long words) I'm not surprised at all !!!
I didn't think there was anything wrong with that thread. There was one knob and everyone else talked sense ( more or less ). ( P.S. Just to clarify,I'm including myself as one of those who made sense!):D
Malteser Monkey
07-07-2011, 13:27
I didn't think there was anything wrong with that thread. There was one knob and everyone else talked sense ( more or less ). ( P.S. Just to clarify,I'm including myself as one of those who made sense!):D
That's what I meant - it only takes 1, anyway we've been there before and I'm sure we will go though it again. If people don't like Gay's, Asian's, Scottish or Scottish Asian Gay's :lol: cheeky smiley ....then just say so but there was no need for the comments that were made.
I know I'm going to cop it from right up North aren't I LOL
That's what I meant - it only takes 1, anyway we've been there before and I'm sure we will go though it again. If people don't like Gay's, Asian's, Scottish or Scottish Asian Gay's :lol: cheeky smiley ....then just say so but there was no need for the comments that were made.
I know I'm going to cop it from right up North aren't I LOL
I don't know what you have against us Northern blokes. I was born n bred here I'll have you know!
Jock Poof Mc Janwari
Malteser Monkey
07-07-2011, 13:34
Living in Galway - Galway Bay ? to be sure
Drat!! Foiled again!:mad:
Red Devil
07-07-2011, 14:15
I often check whoīs online just to see if the membership is growing...there are often as many guests as members online at the same time...I wonder why some of them donīt join.
I'm a member but will only actually log in if I want to say something - otherwise I just read the posts, so will be showing as a guest! that could happen with quite a few members so although figures are true they probably dont give an accurate ratio
At the moment there are 74 users online, 29 members and 45 guests, The forum does seem to have been quiet of late.
I'm permanently signed in but I gave up posting a couple of weeks ago because I didn't like what I was seeing. Checking my posts it would seem my last few were pleading with the cliques not to attack newbies but it fell on deaf ears. It's disappointing because It's not what the people in the background worked so hard for. I've gleaned a lot of helpful information from the Forum and hope to continue doing so and if I can help someone then I'll be happy to do so. Unfortunately I've also seen so much stuff I wouldn't want my kids to see it's unbelievable. I'm sorry but I have to agree that we will struggle to get any new people on here if it continues. = no audience = no advertisers = no forum. I hope that doesn't happen.
Red Devil
07-07-2011, 15:09
I agree, some of the comments from the self important "jokers" of the forum are now boring, predictable and uncalled for.
As for complaining about the moderation of the forum, don't use what you don't like.
Why do people keep saying the old forum was better, apart from having a lot more posts (that will reappear in time) everything else is the same.... Am I missing something ???
... not forgetting 20,000 or so non existant users:whistle:
captain jack sparrow
07-07-2011, 16:22
As a holidaymaker and not a resident i find the forum very useful for information, Anything i need to know about tenerife i would ask on here, Reading through the threads I do class the forum members to be quite a intellectual bunch and I have no problem posting questions, Nevertheless on all forums there is a general shyness to posting, probably through fear of being shot down or belittled, I have witnessed this type bullying on other forums i am involved with, But you do need a bit of banter among members to keep the threads interesting and above all have a laugh and yes topics from time to time do get a bit heated, There is nothing worse than coming on here and no one has posted or no new threads, Yes, the mods do have a tough job in modding what is just a bit of general banter or teasing to where they cross the line and it becomes Insulting. But on the whole its a nice place to click onto and I do envy the residents who live on this beautiful island and hope one day i can become one of you :pray:
Nice post Capīn Jack!:hello:
If anyones been banned on here then in my opinion they deserved it, some people think they are funny when they are clearly not. But like whats already been said if one dosnt like it then one dosnt come on here. simples !!!!!!!
What happened with the former forum? I was away from the computer for a long time and was quite surprised when I returned to find it had changed - in the sense from .com to .org. I'm just curious.
mike in chayofa
07-07-2011, 17:01
What happened with the former forum? I was away from the computer for a long time and was quite surprised when I returned to find it had changed - in the sense from .com to .org. I'm just curious.
See THIS THREAD (http://www.tenerifeforum.org/tenerife-forum/showthread.php?2088-Tenerife-Forum-.org-.com-and-the-future-as-we-currently-see-it.)
Cheers. Was an interesting read and good to see a solution is in hand. Hate to lose the forum.
Goforgold
07-07-2011, 17:31
well when you read threads like the aforementioned (ooo get me with the long words) I'm not surprised at all !!!
Which post was the 'aforementioned' MM - I got confused at this point!! ???
Which post was the 'aforementioned' MM - I got confused at this point!! ???
The Gay bar thread GFG!:hello:
Goforgold
07-07-2011, 17:34
The Gay bar thread GFG!:hello:
Thanks Suej - :hello:
"September when holidays have finished"??? Some have but not for me Sept 27th and counting.
And I think the forum is better now!!!
Sorry, I meant school/university summer holidays... ;)
As stated, we canīt read every post. If you find something offensive please report it so it can be looked at.
Most of us appreciate that, but the thread that many of us are referring to, had more than one mod reading it... one even thanked one of my posts! Yes, I should have reported the one that I found offensive, but really thought as mods were present, that it would get zapped... I haven't looked today, but late last night it was still there!
I've had my wrists rapped a few times, sometimes I felt it was more than justified, other times I didn't, but you just have to take it with a pinch of salt and move on... Generally, I think the mods are pretty fair. My only personal niggle is when the thread title gets changed.... :wall: :D
... not forgetting 20,000 or so non existant users:whistle:
Many of those 20000 members never actually posted... :raspberry2:
EDIT: As I thought, the post is still there.... I have now reported it!
with cheese
07-07-2011, 19:06
If anyones been banned on here then in my opinion they deserved it, some people think they are funny when they are clearly not. But like whats already been said if one dosnt like it then one dosnt come on here. simples !!!!!!!
strange how my post of people having a laugh get points or removed, has been removed. I also mentioned whingers and friends of mods that can post what they want, removed.
Thanks for the report, the post is being removed (I believe that poster was already issued with a warning that evening)
I see some members are set on getting themselves banned, by questioning Mod decisions and liberal use of bad language which, as all know, are against the T&C of the Forum: those T&C are not about to be changed just because a few individuals are feeling aggrieved.
If anyones been banned on here then in my opinion they deserved it, some people think they are funny when they are clearly not. But like whats already been said if one dosnt like it then one dosnt come on here. simples !!!!!!!
A tad unfair. Like everything in life, we all have different senses of humour, so what may not be funny to you, is hilarious to others.... and vice versa.
Ive just got an infection for swearing ?, What next, :confused: swear words, masked or not, against the rules'
delderek
07-07-2011, 19:22
What on Earth makes some of these people hell bent on creating an aggressive atmosphere on here. The vast majority of us are happy that we still have a forum, and would appreciate it if posters acted like mature adults.
What on Earth makes some of these people hell bent on creating an aggressive atmosphere on here. The vast majority of us are happy that we still have a forum, and would appreciate it if posters acted like mature adults.
Thanks del :)
onelegnofeet
07-07-2011, 19:30
But like whats already been said if one dosnt like it then one dosnt come on here. simples !!!!!!!
And some have said on many occassions "THE FORUMS NOT THE SAME THESE DAY"................they too have the option not to come on here !!!:pray:
And some have said on many occassions "THE FORUMS NOT THE SAME THESE DAY"................they too have the option not to come on here !!!:pray:
Thanks OL, :raspberry:
Referring to a post somewhere near the beginning, I couldn't care less if we never see the old forum again. There may have been some useful information but it can all be replicated. No person or their knowledge is irreplaceable, we can will get the useful stuff back over time by people asking relevant questions. The rest was rubbish, which should be ditched, totally unnecessary so why drag all of that excess baggage along.
This forum is fine, it is quiet at the moment but it is early days, a forum is what you make it. If you want to be stuck in the past carry on but IMO lets all move forward.
My only issue and I expect a rollocking for this, although I hope it is taken in the spirit it is meant. I do get sick of seeing the same bog-standard comments posted by Mods when they feel they are being criticised. In many instances it is NOT criticism just a lack of understanding or wanting clarification.
Referring to a post somewhere near the beginning, I couldn't care less if we never see the old forum again. There may have been some useful information but it can all be replicated. No person or their knowledge is irreplaceable, we can will get the useful stuff back over time by people asking relevant questions. The rest was rubbish, which should be ditched, totally unnecessary so why drag all of that excess baggage along.
This forum is fine, it is quiet at the moment but it is early days, a forum is what you make it. If you want to be stuck in the past carry on but IMO lets all move forward.
My only issue and I expect a rollocking for this, although I hope it is taken in the spirit it is meant. I do get sick of seeing the same bog-standard comments posted by Mods when they feel they are being criticised. In many instances it is NOT criticism just a lack of understanding or wanting clarification.
I agree with most of what you have written Zara, the only thing I would say is in regards to your point about lack of understanding, and the need for clarity.
I know it's a tiresome line, but everything a poster needs to understand about the forum is in the T&C'S and it clearly states what is allowed, and what isn't.
Having been banned several times in the past and having my own fair share of infractions I decided to reign it in and follow the rules.
It turns out it isn't that difficult to do... :-)
I agree with most of what you have written Zara, the only thing I would say is in regards to your point about lack of understanding, and the need for clarity.
I know it's a tiresome line, but everything a poster needs to understand about the forum is in the T&C'S and it clearly states what is allowed, and what isn't.
Having been banned several times in the past and having my own fair share of infractions I decided to reign it in and follow the rules.
It turns out it isn't that difficult to do... :-)
I know exactly what you mean Pablo and I have certainly noticed you have been a good boy :kiss: what I meant by clarification and I didn't say it very well is that some people have their posts removed, or moved to off topic and wonder why as similar posts expressing the same sentiments, or which the poster feels they are answering remain in situ. so they question Why me? when Bloggs has been left.
Easy for some, I cant - wont change because i dont see me causing trouble, i come on here for entertainment, Some times you need to use a swear word, just like in real life, I always mask it, so if young persons come across it, and can work it out then they already know it, Its real life, Lately on here its like being back at school, we are adults for crying out loud, sure we all will never get on, but, nobody died, this place surely cant all be about, where to eat, how much is my apartment worth, where can i get layed before 7 am, Will the the illegal let man lock me up, frigging hell, Reign it in ?, never, you wont take me alive copper,
with cheese
07-07-2011, 20:03
As I have said before without the fun threads and the fun in threads, this would be just another forum.
Perhaps all of us that have a laugh should just not post for 2 days and see what happens.
I know exactly what you mean Pablo and I have certainly noticed you have been a good boy :kiss: what I meant by clarification and I didn't say it very well is that some people have their posts removed, or moved to off topic and wonder why as similar posts expressing the same sentiments, or which the poster feels they are answering remain in situ. so they question Why me? when Bloggs has been left.
That's a fair point. One which I guess can only be answered by the powers that be. :-)
I too was unable to Log in for Three Days. I looked hard at My Security.
Are We to believe it was for offending someone..?
I dont think Ive overstepped any mark and would expect to be told if I had.
with cheese
07-07-2011, 20:30
Warb's you always offend me, such offensive posts you should go to the deepest darkest dungeon.
mike in chayofa
07-07-2011, 20:39
I too was unable to Log in for Three Days. I looked hard at My Security.
Are We to believe it was for offending someone..?
I dont think Ive overstepped any mark and would expect to be told if I had.
I am sorry to hear that you couldn't log in. Could you view the forum as a 'guest?' ... If so, did you have the option to 'contact us' and report it?
There are a couple of members that have stated that they were 'banned' for a few days. This is simply not true - if it was, other members would have been able to view their posts and the term 'banned' would have appeared as their status ... this was not the case.
The problem with their accounts came to light because someone told us that these members had told them etc etc. It took a couple of days for us to sort out, but we did manage to sort it
Goforgold
07-07-2011, 20:41
I too was unable to Log in for Three Days. I looked hard at My Security.
.
Oh Warbs!!! You just forgot to switch your computer on!!! :)
How is your alarm system ?? :)
with cheese
07-07-2011, 20:44
Thanks Mike, that is all we ask for is clarification as to what went on. How else do you think we felt, a post removed and an infection, then immediately we can't log in.
When we get back on we ask and no one else seemed to have had the same issue, although Warbs has now said he did.
It is then bought up a number of times but until now, no one has told us any different. It will get yer back up.
It wouldnt recognise My EMail info or Password Mike.
I concluded it was My end and went from there, getting back on Yesterday (Wed)
I was able to get on as Visitor but without name and/or Password would have been difficult
If all else had fail, I would have asked a Friend to tell You or Registered as some other name
and told You that way.
I didnt think I was suspended, it didnt occur to Me........then..
Hope the leg's improving......
Added after 3 minutes:
Oh Warbs!!! You just forgot to switch your computer on!!! :)
How is your alarm system ?? :)
thats what happens on someone elses system.....ha..ha...(joke)
P.S. cant say thanks....No Button to do it..!!!
onelegnofeet
07-07-2011, 21:05
If anyones been banned on here then in my opinion they deserved it, some people think they are funny when they are clearly not. But like whats already been said if one dosnt like it then one dosnt come on here. simples !!!!!!!
And some have said on many occassions "THE FORUMS NOT THE SAME THESE DAY"................they too have the option not to come on here !!!:pray:
Sorry DEDE ,i dont answer pms .............................
Sorry DEDE ,i dont answer pms .............................
:headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang: :headbang::eyebrows::eyebrows::eyebrows::eyebrows:
Goforgold
07-07-2011, 21:09
Sorry DEDE ,i dont answer pms .............................
Or E mails!!! :) :)
onelegnofeet
07-07-2011, 21:10
If anyones been banned on here then in my opinion they deserved it, some people think they are funny when they are clearly not. But like whats already been said if one dosnt like it then one dosnt come on here. simples !!!!!!!
And some have said on many occassions "THE FORUMS NOT THE SAME THESE DAY"................they too have the option not to come on here !!!:pray:
:headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang: :headbang::eyebrows::eyebrows::eyebrows::eyebrows:
Sorry i dont dance either !!!
Ive just got an infection for swearing ?, What next, :confused: swear words, masked or not, against the rules'
Good .........
Good .........
Ah Muppet, ive missed you, have they let you out for the weekend, :crylaughing:
onelegnofeet
07-07-2011, 21:25
Good .........
Bet Jerry Anderson really loves you !!!!
with cheese
07-07-2011, 21:39
Or E mails!!! :) :)
Or trouble makers
Added after 2 minutes:
Return of the Muppet, thought it was the premier of Harry Potless.
Easy for some, I cant - wont change because i dont see me causing trouble, i come on here for entertainment, Some times you need to use a swear word, just like in real life, I always mask it, so if young persons come across it, and can work it out then they already know it, Its real life, Lately on here its like being back at school, we are adults for crying out loud, sure we all will never get on, but, nobody died, this place surely cant all be about, where to eat, how much is my apartment worth, where can i get layed before 7 am, Will the the illegal let man lock me up, frigging hell, Reign it in ?, never, you wont take me alive copper,
First of all, I have just read your comments along with with cheese about bannings. You did not have any bans. There is nothing on your profile to say your were banned. If you are banned, you received a PM and an email saying so. Did you receive anything? If so, please forward it to the mod team, as it will carry important information that would enable the fault to be traced, if there is one, and prevent anything happening to anyone else. As far as we know it was a glitch with the settings, that I believe Pooh managed to fix.
Secondly, we don't care if you feel the occasional smattering of a swear word is needed every now and again. This is a family forum and swearing, even masked, is not allowed. If you feel you want to be who you are and continue to use swear words, then please use another forum as you will be banned from this one. It's against our rules, so either you agree with them, or you don't. If you don't then you cannot use this forum.
Finally, Whether you are a mod, or a mod's friend, the rules are the rules. Mods do not moderate their friends for this very reason. There cannot be any favouritism if you are impartial. If you feel there is bias, please report it, or post a help ticket, however to insinuate such a thing is entirely out of order. Just because you seem intent on continuing to break rules, does not mean that you are being picked on, it just shows to the rest of the members that you are unable to post as an adult on a family forum and get bitter about it if you are pulled up on the fact.
Thanks for understanding :)
Jimandsi
07-07-2011, 21:50
Is there any exception to the "rules" for those members who advertise on / sponsor this forum ?
Just curious.
I like the new forum,but also liked the old forum,its the people that make a forum not who owns it,From what I,ve read I think we should be grateful to those who have got together and resurrected it.but I have to say that I can,t believe the amount of racist language being use by a small number of posters.the continuous use of the P word to me isn,t big nor clever.
onelegnofeet
07-07-2011, 21:56
the continuous use of the P word to me isn,t big nor clever.
AJ................................................ ....P??????:eyebrows:
Is there any exception to the "rules" for those members who advertise on / sponsor this forum ?
Just curious.
What do you honestly believe the answer to your question is ?
I find it a shame that such a prominent member as yourself would question the honesty of those who worked so hard to rescue the forum from obscurity.
I thought you were above that Jim.....
First of all, I have just read your comments along with with cheese about bannings. You did not have any bans. There is nothing on your profile to say your were banned. If you are banned, you received a PM and an email saying so. Did you receive anything? If so, please forward it to the mod team, as it will carry important information that would enable the fault to be traced, if there is one, and prevent anything happening to anyone else. As far as we know it was a glitch with the settings, that I believe Pooh managed to fix.
Secondly, we don't care if you feel the occasional smattering of a swear word is needed every now and again. This is a family forum and swearing, even masked, is not allowed. If you feel you want to be who you are and continue to use swear words, then please use another forum as you will be banned from this one. It's against our rules, so either you agree with them, or you don't. If you don't then you cannot use this forum.
Finally, Whether you are a mod, or a mod's friend, the rules are the rules. Mods do not moderate their friends for this very reason. There cannot be any favouritism if you are impartial. If you feel there is bias, please report it, or post a help ticket, however to insinuate such a thing is entirely out of order. Just because you seem intent on continuing to break rules, does not mean that you are being picked on, it just shows to the rest of the members that you are unable to post as an adult on a family forum and get bitter about it if you are pulled up on the fact.
Thanks for understanding :)
Well make sure thats for everybody, there is swearing on tonight, tell them too,
I like the new forum,but also liked the old forum,its the people that make a forum not who owns it,From what I,ve read I think we should be grateful to those who have got together and resurrected it.but I have to say that I can,t believe the amount of racist language being use by a small number of posters.the continuous use of the P word to me isn,t big nor clever.
Pablo ????
Jimandsi
07-07-2011, 22:04
Ah, I note that you're STILL stalking me pablo1 :whistle:
I must put you back on my ignore list again - bye bye :raspberry2:
Well make sure thats for everybody, there is swearing on tonight, tell them too,
Pablo ????
Please report any masked swearing posts then, as we always ask you to. The mods will then look into it and issue infractions if necessary. :)
What do you honestly believe the answer to your question is ?
I find it a shame that such a prominent member as yourself would question the honesty of those who worked so hard to rescue the forum from obscurity.
I thought you were above that Jim.....
I think thats called wit, something you know nothing about, if this forum was full of people like you it would be sunk already,
Is there any exception to the "rules" for those members who advertise on / sponsor this forum ?
Just curious.Not at all.... and why would you be curious? There has never been a relaxation of the rules for anyone regardless of whether they advertise.
Please report any masked swearing posts then, as we always ask you to. The mods will then look into it and issue infractions if necessary. :)
Thank you i will, now lets all try to move on, I'm gratefull to those that have saved the forum,
I think thats called wit, something you know nothing about, if this forum was full of people like you it would be sunk already,No, I would call it provocation. He does it a lot, so we would expect nothing less :)
Ah, I note that you're STILL stalking me pablo1 :whistle:
I must put you back on my ignore list again - bye bye :raspberry2:
You seem to have regressed to childlike behaviour recently Jim, I won't be offended if you choose to ignore me. Take care. :-)
I think thats called wit, something you know nothing about, if this forum was full of people like you it would be sunk already,
Thank you for your kind words. :-)
On a side note, you're correct. If the forum was full of members like myself it would indeed have sunk. Fortunately the idea of a forum is to try and get as many different views from as many different people as possible. :-)
with cheese
07-07-2011, 22:15
what the pleb word i agree. That is aimed at individuals and should carry an infection because joking apart it is bad to some and due respect to Pablo he apologised and has not called me it since.
Thank you i will, now lets all try to move on, I'm gratefull to those that have saved the forum,Just seen your report and you seem to be confused about what exactly masked swearing means.
If someone writes a swear word that is not allowed on the forum, it is automatically starred out by the profanity filter. Posting swear words that are starred out is by this filter is fine, however if you try to fool the filter by using different symbols, for example, Pe@r or Str--berry or app1e, so that the word is NOT picked up by the profanity filter, then that is called masked swearing and is not allowed.
By all means, use swear words in your posts if you feel you have to, but if you disguise them from the automatic filter so that they do not get starred out automatically if they are words that are not allowed, then you will receive an infraction. If you just type the word out normally and it gets picked up and starred out by the filter, then you will not receive an infraction.
I hope that clarifies things for you. :)
what the pleb word i agree. That is aimed at individuals and should carry an infection because joking apart it is bad to some and due respect to Pablo he apologised and has not called me it since.
And I won't again Kev. You explained that it offended you and i'm more than happy to apologise if I overstep the mark, wherever it be on purpose, or unintentionally.
slodgedad
07-07-2011, 22:30
Just seen your report and you seem to be confused about what exactly masked swearing means.
If someone writes a swear word that is not allowed on the forum, it is automatically starred out by the profanity filter. Posting swear words that are starred out is by this filter is fine, however if you try to fool the filter by using different symbols, for example, Pe@r or Str--berry or app1e, so that the word is NOT picked up by the profanity filter, then that is called masked swearing and is not allowed.
By all means, use swear words in your posts if you feel you have to, but if you disguise them from the automatic filter so that they do not get starred out automatically if they are words that are not allowed, then you will receive an infraction. If you just type the word out normally and it gets picked up and starred out by the filter, then you will not receive an infraction.
I hope that clarifies things for you. :)
I, for one, think the star out filter is fun as it makes you think 'what's he saying?
When the word is blatantly spelled out it get's everyones' back up straight away.
It's a bit like striptease; It's not what you see but, rather, what you think you see.
timmylish
07-07-2011, 22:58
Well, in answer to the original post I for one preferred the "tone" of the old forum. I very much appreciate all the efforts to create a new forum in the image of the old one and, therein lies the problem for me. Its an attempt to recreate something in its old image and for me that don,t work! Interesting to note that the only comment on this thread that I wholly agree with is Zara,s;-
"My only issue and I expect a rollocking for this, although I hope it is taken in the spirit it is meant. I do get sick of seeing the same bog-standard comments posted by Mods when they feel they are being criticised. In many instances it is NOT criticism just a lack of understanding or wanting clarification"
Why does a respected member of the forum expect a "rollocking"?
I like a joke,thats a given, but I would draw a line at some blatant racism that cant be covered by claims of political correctness,nor by so called humour ie you realy don,t know what the P word is.Well I won,t repeat it,you shower use it enough hard people that you are.Amazing what the protection a screen and keyboard can give someone
TenerifeTeddy
07-07-2011, 23:16
I have copied below an announcement made by Admin earlier this evening that will hopefully answer some of your questions:
Just to inform everyone, as I know some people have been wondering, we now have recovered the database and the old forum and domain. .com is currently pointing here, and we will be recovering your old posts and PMs in the next couple of months. Hopefully all will be back to normal by Christmas.
In the meantime, we will be setting up the old forum in a sub folder on this new server which you will have read-only access to your posts and PMs, but will not be able to reply to them. Once the old forum is fixed and updated, then we will have to go offline for a few hours while we merge the two forums and then everything will be back to normal again.
Please bear with us. It's a huge job, so it will take some time. Please bear in mind that all the people working to do this are donating their time freely and have full time jobs of their own, so do not badger and pressure them, or you might not like the replies
Thanks!
with cheese
07-07-2011, 23:18
No, I would call it provocation. He does it a lot, so we would expect nothing less :)
This means that members are allowed to do things if they do them regularly, in my eyes provoking people is as bad as doing the crime.
micknova
07-07-2011, 23:20
after reading all the posts on this thread i agree with alot of what mods have said however one thing what kept popping up was if members dont like it then dont come on
that i do find wrong i made this thread to try help the forum by getting some members opinions to the mods as a way to improve the forum after all without members there would not be a forum so i think as mods thats a bad way to put things yes i agree some members just ask to be banned but for members like myself who have never had a warning i took offense in dont like it leave as i would hope mods would like feedback from members in order to continue to improve the forum
Well, in answer to the original post I for one preferred the "tone" of the old forum. I very much appreciate all the efforts to create a new forum in the image of the old one and, therein lies the problem for me. Its an attempt to recreate something in its old image and for me that don,t work! Interesting to note that the only comment on this thread that I wholly agree with is Zara,s;-
"My only issue and I expect a rollocking for this, although I hope it is taken in the spirit it is meant. I do get sick of seeing the same bog-standard comments posted by Mods when they feel they are being criticised. In many instances it is NOT criticism just a lack of understanding or wanting clarification"
Why does a respected member of the forum expect a "rollocking"?
The "old" Forum had many faces over the years, but not a lot of tolerance, if I remember correctly.
And I think Zara was perhaps referring back to a "rollocking" she might have got in our first week back ... nerves were a touch frayed :)
slodgedad
07-07-2011, 23:29
after reading all the posts on this thread i agree with alot of what mods have said however one thing what kept popping up was if members dont like it then dont come on
that i do find wrong i made this thread to try help the forum by getting some members opinions to the mods as a way to improve the forum after all without members there would not be a forum so i think as mods thats a bad way to put things yes i agree some members just ask to be banned but for members like myself who have never had a warning i took offense in dont like it leave as i would hope mods would like feedback from members in order to continue to improve the forum
The problem we've had, Mick is that there are a few members on the 'new' (not for long) Forum are trying their damndest to spoil everyone's enjoyment.
In my opinion it is not over modded but under modded as there is so much to do.
Most of the petty arguments on here would never had appeared on the old one but it's getting better.
I think you'll agree that a lot of the garbage that has caused a massive amount of complaints are the most visited by the afore mentioned trollers.
This Forum is still the best and in a few days, when we are sorted, all will become clear.
No. 1 again. Where we've always been before our recent hiccup
Well said Slodge and the sooner its all sorted out the better it will be
TenerifeTeddy
07-07-2011, 23:34
after reading all the posts on this thread i agree with alot of what mods have said however one thing what kept popping up was if members dont like it then dont come on
that i do find wrong i made this thread to try help the forum by getting some members opinions to the mods as a way to improve the forum after all without members there would not be a forum so i think as mods thats a bad way to put things yes i agree some members just ask to be banned but for members like myself who have never had a warning i took offense in dont like it leave as i would hope mods would like feedback from members in order to continue to improve the forum
All we are really asking is for members to stick to the rules when they post on here. Please :)
The tone of some of the replies from the Admins & Mods may have got a bit sharp, because of some real provocation from some members, who seem to like nothing better than to stir things up.
micknova
07-07-2011, 23:35
i do totally agree with you but i think feedback from members(not trouble coursing ones) is good me for one if i think something would be better to let you know however some posts in this thread i get the feeling as a member that we have no say and are not appreciated as much as we should be
again just an opinion of how i feel
i want the forum to do well i like been part of this forum i do my best to abide rules tho i must admit i aint read any of them as i dont feel i need to as im not the sort of person to offend anyone as i basically have common sense and i must be right as i have never had a warning or problem with the mods
Its a pity we dont have something like Skype incorporated into the forum.Wouldnt it be fun to see the hard knock on the other end of the post.....................I reckon we,d lose a few,but it would be worth it
slodgedad
07-07-2011, 23:40
i do totally agree with you but i think feedback from members(not trouble coursing ones) is good me for one if i think something would be better to let you know however some posts in this thread i get the feeling as a member that we have no say and are not appreciated as much as we should be
again just an opinion of how i feel
i want the forum to do well i like been part of this forum i do my best to abide rules tho i must admit i aint read any of them as i dont feel i need to as im not the sort of person to offend anyone as i basically have common sense and i must be right as i have never had a warning or problem with the mods
I fully understand your point Mick.
The touble we have recently had with members who are deliberately trying to put members off posting is being dealt with, now we have a little spare time.
Remember the Report button is only a click away
micknova
07-07-2011, 23:44
anyway thanks to everyone for feed back on this thread im very happy with the feed back ive recieved its nice to know the forum is been taken care of and nice to be told about it so thanks to all mods admin and also other members who are just as important(not including people trying to spol the forum)
anyway thanks to everyone for feed back on this thread im very happy with the feed back ive recieved its nice to know the forum is been taken care of and nice to be told about it so thanks to all mods admin and also other members who are just as important(not including people trying to spol the forum)
Keep posting Mick, it's always good to see new members getting involved. :-)
YOUNG GOLFER
07-07-2011, 23:49
The mods on here seem fine....as do most of the members...but have to say this i don't like to see members banned....and it's a shame....but rules are rules and the member should not cross that line.
with cheese
07-07-2011, 23:49
I for one appreciate the Mods are working hard and the getting the forum back together. I also understand the swearing bit and although I believe most of it is in good humour and will endeavour to let the tools bleep me out.
I do think though that there is a lot of provocation going on from other certain members towards the ones that like to have a bit of a laugh.
The old forum used to have many of us in stitches and some nights you would have about 20 members banging it out on one thread. People like Maxine, Ecky, GFG, Marbs,Tonypub, Vince, Jimbo, Warbs, Zara, Reggie, Cim, Monkey, Howard, all the sue's, Oneleg, IPM and many more, these are not trolls, just people that make a good forum.
You can be sure as soon as a Thread comes a long that needs some serious advice many of us "trolls" are there to give it. Yes they do often end up down the pan, but as I have said previous this is after they have been virtually fulfilled of info.
The Gay thread is a great example, no malice towards gay people was given by any of the above or myself, we were all very defensive of them and showed our disgust at a particular poster. People like Dave feel they can be happily gay on here because we are all on their side. None of the fun remarks are meant maliciously, wish I could say the same for the remarks to provoke.
I expect I will get told off for this if it is seen as challenging behaviour, it is not.
micknova
07-07-2011, 23:51
i been a member about 6 months now but as such a newbie didnt feel i had much right to go saying what i thought but as i been a member a while now and i live in tenerife aswell now and as i enjoy coming on the forum why not state my opinion of what i think to the new forum compared to old one and i think the thread was quite a success via the odd 1 or 2 trying to be clever everyone else put there opinions out and there has been no bitching or abusive posts which i think is a great step forwards tbh
Having been a Mod on the old forum and a few other places they have my respect. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. This forum is pretty lightly moderated now but they will never please everyone. People can't even see other folk's point of view in general discussions so they stand no chance.
Remember they give hours and hours free of charge and usually get little thanks or recognition. If you had ever seen behind the scenes you would appreciate how much of a mess the forum would be without the mods and admins. Cheers guys and gals.
slodgedad
08-07-2011, 00:04
I for one appreciate the Mods are working hard and the getting the forum back together. I also understand the swearing bit and although I believe most of it is in good humour and will endeavour to let the tools bleep me out.
I do think though that there is a lot of provocation going on from other certain members towards the ones that like to have a bit of a laugh.
The old forum used to have many of us in stitches and some nights you would have about 20 members banging it out on one thread. People like Maxine, Ecky, GFG, Marbs,Tonypub, Vince, Jimbo, Warbs, Zara, Reggie, Cim, Monkey, Howard, all the sue's, Oneleg, IPM and many more, these are not trolls, just people that make a good forum.
You can be sure as soon as a Thread comes a long that needs some serious advice many of us "trolls" are there to give it. Yes they do often end up down the pan, but as I have said previous this is after they have been virtually fulfilled of info.
The Gay thread is a great example, no malice towards gay people was given by any of the above or myself, we were all very defensive of them and showed our disgust at a particular poster. People like Dave feel they can be happily gay on here because we are all on their side. None of the fun remarks are meant maliciously, wish I could say the same for the remarks to provoke.
I expect I will get told off for this if it is seen as challenging behaviour, it is not.
The point is WC that a lot of the posts were off topic.
It wasn't a 'gay thread' as you have called it rather a question about gay clubs, and why they are not successful in Tenerife.
It turned into a gay bash thread when it should have been split, as threads are, time permitting.
The problem is with gay bashing threads is however you feel about it, PC says you must keep it to yourself.
We are the Tenerife Forum ('We', means all of us)
A family orientated Forum.
Snide gay comments have no part in it
To be fair Slodge, I tried telling that goon several times that the thread was not about ones personal views of gays, but his rants continued. There was such venom in his tone I couldn't ignore it, and his comparing gays to bestiality utterly appalled me... as did the lack of action from the powers that be...
Yes, I've questioned mods decisions in the past (and been rollocked for it), not to be awkward, more out of curiosity or frustration. Sometimes the reasons behind mods actions don't seem consistent, and that is what confuses some of us. Quite often the reasons given make perfect sense, other times they don't... but I don't believe we should be always shot down in flames if we do look for a little clarification.
Yes, I know the mods give their time freely, and it's not the easiest of jobs. However (devils advocate head on now ;)) quite often members are told, 'these are the rules, if you don't like them nobody is forcing you to stay', surely the same applies to a mod... If they can't take the bad with the good, they can always jack it and become a regular member again... ??? As I said, that is playing devils advocate, not a dig, but it can be a little tiresome that whenever a tricky situation arises, the mods often throw in the 'we do this for love' card.... The forum wouldn't exist without the members, and it would be a blood bath without the mods. We need each other...
On that note, I'm legging it to the safety of my scrabble game.... ;) :D
Added after 7 minutes:
The point is WC that a lot of the posts were off topic.
It wasn't a 'gay thread' as you have called it rather a question about gay clubs, and why they are not successful in Tenerife.
It turned into a gay bash thread when it should have been split, as threads are, time permitting.
The problem is with gay bashing threads is however you feel about it, PC says you must keep it to yourself.
We are the Tenerife Forum ('We', means all of us)
A family orientated Forum.
Snide gay comments have no part in it
So why were the highly offensive comments not jumped on immediately??? You were on that thread, and saw just how the comparisons he made offended so many of us? If one of the 'regulars' had said such things, we would have had the book, pc and everything else chucked at us... And still that post remains there, on a 'family orientated' forum. It should have been deleted immediately.... What he said was downright disgusting!!!
with cheese
08-07-2011, 00:37
The point is WC that a lot of the posts were off topic.
It wasn't a 'gay thread' as you have called it rather a question about gay clubs, and why they are not successful in Tenerife.
It turned into a gay bash thread when it should have been split, as threads are, time permitting.
The problem is with gay bashing threads is however you feel about it, PC says you must keep it to yourself.
We are the Tenerife Forum ('We', means all of us)
A family orientated Forum.
Snide gay comments have no part in it
I think it was more a case of bash the gay basher actually Slodge. There was only one having a go rest of us in defence. I actually had some really good Banter with Dave and pm'd him to make sure he was not offended.
I think it was more a case of bash the gay basher actually Slodge. There was only one having a go rest of us in defence. I actually had some really good Banter with Dave and pm'd him to make sure he was not offended.
As I have always said the sentiments behind the words are more important than the words used. You're quite right only one person in that thread was offensive. It didn't upset me in the least as it's his problem not mine. That doesn't however make it OK to say what he did.
slodgedad
08-07-2011, 00:46
So why were the highly offensive comments not jumped on immediately??? You were on that thread, and saw just how the comparisons he made offended so many of us? If one of the 'regulars' had said such things, we would have had the book, pc and everything else chucked at us... And still that post remains there, on a 'family orientated' forum. It should have been deleted immediately.... What he said was downright disgusting!!!
Because we were unaware. Every reported post is dealt with.
In the past we have been virtually actively moderated but with the advent of the new Forum and the global Spam machine hitting us it hasn't been.
I can remember, not long ago, with a much bigger Forum, having the ability and time to read every single post.
Those days are temporarily gone..I hope
As I have always said the sentiments behind the words are more important than the words used. You're quite right only one person in that thread was offensive. It didn't upset me in the least as it's his problem not mine. That doesn't however make it OK to say what he did.
I know you pretty well now, and I know you are more than capable of handling such fools, but I still believe that he should have been halted in his tracks the minute he posted that now infamous comment... and it's that sort of inconsistency that upsets people. In my personal opinion, it was one of the most offensive posts I've read on the forum in the 5+ years I've been on here... :(
with cheese
08-07-2011, 00:51
apart from you offering to drink my xo brandy, greedy ow.
slodgedad
08-07-2011, 00:53
In response to the last few posts, a few things were moved, regardless of the poster's feelings, because of the avalanche of complaints.
The person you are talking about inboxed me trying to justify some of his comments. I'm not sure why he felt he needed to justify himself to me, I only made 1 comment on that particular thread.
onelegnofeet
09-07-2011, 15:31
The person you are talking about inboxed me trying to justify some of his comments. I'm not sure why he felt he needed to justify himself to me, I only made 1 comment on that particular thread.
(not sure if you where on the old TF but ,) He probably saw a weakness in your post count ,and thought you would back off .
I really do think its yet again an old forum member ,if you read through the posts one minute his /her english written word is not so good ,then when someone bites it suddenly gets much better !!! We have endured this before (Ricogon ,was the one who did this before ).
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