Is the demise of the euro inevitable?

[Bradybunch]

greek euro,s have a Y at the beginning of the serial number

[henry]

the greeks have saved our bacon,the euro is now safe:whistle:what we gunna talk about now:dontknow:

for now tony but alot of people said they think sometime this year greek and still get out of the euro. with so much debt piling on everyday.

[tonypub]

for now tony but alot of people said they think sometime this year greek and still get out of the euro. with so much debt piling on everyday.really:dontknow:

[henry]

breaking news!!!! Cyprus had become the fifth euro zone member to request a bailout!!!

here the link to read it!!

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0626/1224318727546.html

[tonypub]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18921663

[seanocelt]

Wont bore everyone with the many links to financial press i have read today, but some SERIOUS comments from Spain's financial world, concerning services now out of cash completely, yet another VAT rise to keep it in the Euro. One saying that ultimately, the Spanish people will say enough is enough and will want out of monetary union, but staying in the EU. Hard to see a way out, bailout after bailout, its a sovereign default next, then the Geman's will really have to dig deep, will they have the appetite?

[henry]

you know i just don´t understand maybe i missing something?? so, when a country borrowed money and run out of cash they ask for a bailout. so when they get the bailout they have to pay the money back that they borrow. that means the country don´t have a bailout they just borrowed money to pay back the bailout and on top on that payback the money they they borrowed. it sound like they just recycle the same money!! and everyone can see there a strong war breawing over north and south europe. i think this year one of this country will get out of the euro. greece, italy or spain. if they get out of the euro asap. they can go back to what they had. devalue and watch the tourists come and watch the growth come back. but yet you have the europe puppets like merkel and them keep saying, HEY, LET BAILOUT MORE COUNTRYS, SPEND MORE TO GET MORE GROWTH IN EUROPE!! how can you get growth if you keep spending bailout money and no one is spending their money because there no jobs to start with, i´m sorry merkel but your party is starting to wake up and going against you and others in europe. i just hope the euro died before there a war!!!

[KirstyJay]

Henry, you can see it... I can see it... Most of Europe can see it... So why can't the politicians?! :rolleyes:

[henry]

Henry, you can see it... I can see it... Most of Europe can see it... So why can't the politicians?! :rolleyes:

they just want to spen more money from us folkes so they can keep their euro dream alive!!! but from the markets is telling them more and more and more the euro is a failuare!!! but yet they keep laugning and putting more people out of work and make it allmost inpossible for people (like myshelf) to find a job.while they have their g8 meeting launing and thinking. LET SEE HOW CAN CAN SCREW EUROPE SOME MORE!! why you think cameron saying now i´m getting sick and tried keep going to the g8 meeting.

[Foz]

I've read many of the posts in this thread ... but admit to not ready the entire thing, so please excuse me if I'm going over something that has already been explained.

What I'd like to know is what would be the negative consequences of Spain reverting to the peseta? Sorry if I appear really dumb ..... most of the posters on this thread seem very well informed.

[seanocelt]

High import costs , oil etc may be the main one. But good for tourism, exports and maybe even the property market if it is pegged at a low level. Just my thoughts.

[henry]

more bad news for spain take a look here

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/spain-bailout-fears-peak-black-033810147.html

even my mom watch a talk show last night and man!! alot of anger among spanish people!! even they said tomorrow spain have to raise more money (didn´t said how much) but in the millions they have till wednesday if they fail to raise more money then you (might) be looking for a full blow bailout!!

[KirstyJay]

if they fail to raise more money then you (might) be looking for a full blow bailout!!
I think you mean that they will go bankrupt, not that they'll be looking for a bailout, as they already are.

To be honest, if we did go bankrupt at least it'd stop all this rubbish and we could start rebuilding the economy from scratch.

[bonitatime]

Having watched Argentina default I am not sure this would be a path to go down if we can possibly avoid it

It would mean no access to the world markets for the next 5 plus years and some very very hard times.
It is not just lets start again.

Kirsty can you remind your other half he was going to PM me some links

[henry]

check this out everyone!!!

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/spanish-siesta-falls-victim-europes-145605987.html

[henry]

on the spanish news they saying that spain needs possibly three to 400 hundred billion euros to bail out!! wow that´s alot of money and yesterday the 10 year old hit 7.50. same as other counterys hit that and ask for a bailout now today spain 10 year bond climb more now it 7.80. and yet spain keep saying we don´t need a bailout. as you can see. they going to and it going to blow up in their faces.

[seanocelt]

Spain said it's banks didnt need a bailout. Then did. I recall it saying there was not property a bubble either. Denial again about a bailout? CLARO!

[Muppet]

Spain said it's banks didnt need a bailout. Then did. I recall it saying there was not property a bubble either. Denial again about a bailout? CLARO!

Truth is nobody in Spain has a clue about how much they are in debt. All 17 regions have been lieing for years about all the loans they have from their mates in the local banks - then suddenly BANG.

I think it was the IMF who estimated Spain's debts were of the order of 400 billion, and that was before the EU requested a full audit on the banking sector - I hope the Germans have checked and double checked under the cushions of their sofa - it's not going to be pretty.

[seanocelt]

Cant see a second bailout, which just like Greece, will eventually be needed. Italy another elephant in a room full of elephants, nobody has an answer. Euro break up would lead to bank runs, depression, status quo means wave of recessions for decades?When youth finally gets full employment, it will be taxed to death.

[KirstyJay]

Kirsty can you remind your other half he was going to PM me some links

Just tag his username and he is alerted to the thread TheBloke

[BobMac]

Having put them on negative alert, the Eurozone will collapse like a pack of cards if Moodys downgrade Germany's AAA credit rating - even Angela Merkel won't be able to sell that one to the Germans.

[Muppet]

In some ways it's a great shame our friend Satellite can no longer post. Having spent pages and pages telling us all how safe the Spanish banks and economy in general is in comparison to the UK for example, I wonder what his take will be now.

The Euro should be scrapped, but the real issue is that it cannot be, part of its formation was that there is no way back. It seems increasingly likely though that this will need to be changed, even if rules are created to allow forced exits. Once the German taxpayer gets to grips with the concept of having to find 3 or 4 hundred billion to support Spain, then the same again or more to support Italy whilst the Greeks carry on somewhat regardless,the next major protest we a should expect is the streets of Germany filled with demonstrators protesting against their Governments (or their leader's) virtual obsession.

Interesting times ahead., but despite the UK's situation, I don't see the pound going anywhere soon as our "friend" seemed to.

[Tom & Sharon]

£ on the up again this morning. Almost back at 1.28€ :spin:

[henry]

this is what yahoo is saying now!!


Several Spanish regions are rebelling against the central government's decision to cap their debt, raising fresh doubts on Wednesday over its ability to meet deficit targets agreed with Brussels.

Regional finance chiefs at a meeting with the national treasury agreed late Tuesday to an overall debt ceiling for the 17 regions of 15.1 percent of output in 2012 and 16 percent in 2013.

But four regions, including two of the largest, Catalonia and Andalucia, refused to accept the central government's clampdown on their finances.

Catalonia, Spain's richest region with an economy equal in size to Portugal's, boycotted the meeting altogether while the finance chief of Andalucia, the country's most populous, walked out of the gathering.

Two smaller regions, Asturias and the Canary Islands, voted against the targets at the meeting.

"The lack of internal cohesion is highly damaging to the international credibility of Spain at a key moment for its economy and that of the eurozone," Barcelona-based daily La Vanguardia wrote in an editorial Wednesday.

Spain has slashed spending and raised taxes as it seeks to convince markets that it will not need a full bailout, on top of a 100 billion euro ($123 billion) credit line from the EU agreed in June for its stricken banks.

The regional governments, which fund education and healthcare, are crucial to Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy's effort to bring the country's overall public deficit down to just below a EU limit of 3.0 percent of output by 2014.

They accounted for two-thirds of Spain's deficit slippage last year, when the country missed its target of keeping the deficit to 6.0 percent of economic output and instead let it slide to 8.9 percent.

"The political dynamics between the central government and the regions are likely to be important in ensuring the overall success of the Spanish adjustment efforts," Citigroup (NYSE: C - news) wrote in a research note published Wednesday.

The central government set a debt limit for Catalonia in 2012 of 22.81 percent of output and of 23.6 percent in 2013, with Andalucia on 12.07 percent and 13.2 percent.

Meeting Andalucia's debt ceiling for 2013 would require further spending cuts of three billion euros, the president of Andalucia, Jose Antonio Grinan, told a news conference in Seville.

"It is impossible unless we shut down hospitals and schools," he said.

But Budget Minister Cristobal Montoro said the regions had no choice but to respect the debt limits set for them.

"We are talking about the application of European standards. We are demanding of the regions what Europe (Chicago Options: ^REURUSD - news) demands of us," he said.

The central government has the power to withhold the transfer of money to undisciplined regions but punishing regions would be a risky strategy since some are on the brink of default.

Catalonia said Tuesday it could not afford to make its grant payments for the month of July to non-profit hospitals, old age homes and other social services agencies that provide services for the northeastern region.

Last week, it said it was considering tapping a new central government fund worth up to 18 billion euros ($22 billion) set up to help regional governments in difficulty.

The row between the central government and the regions comes as Spain's allies are looking for Germany to agree to the European Central Bank opening its purse strings and buying Spanish and Italian debt at a time when the two nations are struggling to finance themselves on international markets.

"Germany is willing to help Spain to reduce the market pressure on its debt but in exchange it wants more savings, mainly in education and health," Madrid brokerage Renta4 said in a research note

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/spanish-regions-rebel-against-debt-175529987.html

[tonypub]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19633964 bailout time is fast approaching

[seanocelt]

Its took a full 3 years to get to where we all knew it was heading, denial denial all the way from Spain, let's see how the German's react next, mighty sick of ot now id say.

[DJandDeid]

At the beginning €1 = 66p. ? Now

[slodgedad]

At the beginning €1 = 66p. ? Now
I don't know what that's got to do with it.

When I was a kid there were 4 US dollars (hence 5 shillings was called a dollar) to a pound and its been as low low as 1.28, yet they have both survived

[DJandDeid]

An indication of relative strength. Markets think the euro is worth more now than when it began.

[TheBloke]

Got a few bob invested in euros then?

Being Irish would you sell your sovereign nation again to a foreign power?

[seanocelt]

The real agenda is coming to the fore, Germany want the EU to have total budget control over its poorer nations.

[Fivepence]

The real agenda is coming to the fore, Germany want the EU to have total budget control over its poorer nations.

I think that Germany is the problem, not the solution.
If Germany left the Euro and the EU, the remaining countries could align better if they so wished.
Although my personal view is that the EU should be a trading union only, as it was in the beginning.

[henry]

big voting tonight!!! please let greece go from the euro prison!!! they suffer too much!! http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/greek-mps-vote-austerity-protests-194452032.html

[Fivepence]

big voting tonight!!! please let greece go from the euro prison!!! they suffer too much!! http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/greek-mps-vote-austerity-protests-194452032.html

I agree Henry, the elite are playing financial games with peoples lives.
It is very sad and wrong.

[Fivepence]

Reported today @ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt-crisis-live/9662732/Debt-crisis-live.html

Greek youth unemployment now stands at 58pc.
That's FIFTY EIGHT percent.

The latest austerity measures passed through the Greek Parliament last night but protesters were rioting outside.
Social unrest is growing, will the people revolt?