View Full Version : Is the demise of the euro inevitable?
atlantico
27-06-2011, 13:50
Mon 27 Jun 2011
" Whilst there are still ongoing talks in Greece billionaire investor George Soros ( "the Man Who Broke the Bank of England" ) has been expressing his own assessment over the state of the Eurozone. He believes that it is almost inevitable that so called 'weaker nations' will be given an exit strategy should they fall by the wayside. He said at a panel discussion in Vienna yesterday that the Eurozone is on the verge of an economic collapse that will start with Greece, but could easily spread. "
source = currencysolutions.co.uk (http://www.currencysolutions.co.uk/news-and-articles/daily-currency-news/2011-june-27/demise-of-the-euro-inevitable)
Wow !!
Mon 27 Jun 2011
" Whilst there are still ongoing talks in Greece billionaire investor George Soros has been expressing his own assessment over the state of the Eurozone. He believes that it is almost inevitable that so called 'weaker nations' will be given an exit strategy should they fall by the wayside. He said at a panel discussion in Vienna yesterday that the Eurozone is on the verge of an economic collapse that will start with Greece, but could easily spread. "
source = currencysolutions.co.uk (http://www.currencysolutions.co.uk/news-and-articles/daily-currency-news/2011-june-27/demise-of-the-euro-inevitable)
Wow !!
fingers crossed it does,i hate the euro with a vengence:gun::gun::gun::gun::gun::gun::censored::c ensored::fryingpan::poke::smack::boxing:
atlantico
27-06-2011, 14:17
can't you find anymore 'vengeance' emoticons than that ??
BUT, what would happen to the GBP ? Strengthen, weaken ?
can't you find anymore 'vengeance' emoticons than that ??
BUT, what would happen to the GBP ? Strengthen, weaken ?it would weaken against the global currencys but not as much as the euro so 6 eggs and a loaf will seem cheaper to the uk tourist
can't you find anymore 'vengeance' emoticons than that ??
BUT, what would happen to the GBP ? Strengthen, weaken ?
It would imo weaken considerably for two reasons.
1. The British banks have fairly considerable exposure to the banks in the periphery states ( Ireland, Portugal, Greece and also Spain Italy).
2. Britain's main trading partners are located within the EU so any financial troubles will have a negative effect. I dont think, if its done in an orderly fashion, that States such as Greece, Ireland etc leaving the eurozone, will have a disasterous effect however, inflation will rise worldwide but again, ( hopefully) not to an unmanageable level. I've been saying here ( in Ireland) that we should have left instead of being forced to accept the bailout last year. It would have enabled us to devalue our currency which would have eased the financial crisis considerably
atlantico
27-06-2011, 14:32
other major financial players are of the opinion that the Euro will never be abandoned by any member state, BUT George Soros is in the position to make it happen !
remember when he became known as "the Man Who Broke the Bank of England" after he made a reported $1 billion during the 1992 Black Wednesday UK currency crises. Soros correctly speculated that the British government would have to devalue the pound sterling.
On Monday, October 26, 1992, The Times quoted Soros as saying:
"Our total position by Black Wednesday had to be worth almost $10 billion. We planned to sell more than that. In fact, when Norman Lamont said just before the devaluation that he would borrow nearly $15 billion to defend sterling, . . . . . . . we were amused because that was about how much we wanted to sell.!! "
This man knows what he's doing !!
Forbes Richest list puts him at #28 - Net Worth: $7.2 billion
Bradybunch
27-06-2011, 15:32
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8600016/European-leaders-prepare-for-a-Greek-default.html
I think if we all club together and get all the drachma's out of our junk drawers we could probably buy Greece within the next few months.
This could be the start of the second dip in the financial markets, brace yourselves it could be a bumpy ride.
other major financial players are of the opinion that the Euro will never be abandoned by any member state, BUT George Soros is in the position to make it happen !
The eurozone in its current state ( again only my opinion) will not remain the same size. The EU can afford to prop up Portugal, Ireland and Greece as combined they only make up 7% of the Euro economy. The real test is going to come when either Spain or Italy start to struggle to sell their government bonds on the markets. Spanish bonds are already at 5.8% and rising ( Remember, Ireland's bonds went to 7% when Trichet, Merkel, Sarkozy et al insisted that we accept a bailout. At the last bond market in May, Spain wanted to raise @ 8 billion euro, yet only managed to get 5 billion.
Anyway, I would agree with Soros that the smaller economies will be sacrificed to save the big players. The Uk should count its blessings that it never adopted the euro. Any chance of letting us ( Ireland) join sterling? Please!
atlantico
28-06-2011, 13:15
Tue 28 Jun 2011
" As D-Day approaches in Greece there have been mass protests and 48 hour strikes held by unions as parliament prepares for a key vote on tough austerity measures tomorrow. Whilst a bailout is necessary to avoid a default, you can understand the public's anger. Should the supposed austerity measures be passed, they will be the hardest hit, with job cuts and tough increases in tax high on the agenda."
The € seems to be strengthening rather than weakening.If the weaker economies jump ship as it were, leaving the strong economic member states then surely this culling of weaker economies can only strengthen the€?
The question is will Spain jump ship?
bonitatime
28-06-2011, 15:29
I think Spain will try with all their might to stay in as they see this as a way to stability
TheBloke
28-06-2011, 15:47
The Eurozone leaders will do almost anything to preserve their political vision hence the sacrifice of a sovereign nation i.e Greece.
If Greece defaults the effect on economies around the world let alone Europe are unknown because nobody is sure who is owed what,who has insured against Greece defaulting and with who (credit default swaps).
The whole criminal truth will be laid bare for all to see and no one will lend a thing to anybody,this is what happened in 2008.
Therefore the French and German banks willingness to defer the debts for thirty years (a default according to the rating agencies) or accepting Chinese help are both o.k with our eu masters.
Bailing out Greece in this manner whilst leaving the population in poverty is a disgrace and i hope the govt listens to the will of the people or are first against the wall for selling out their country.
bonitatime
28-06-2011, 18:10
The Eurozone leaders will do almost anything to preserve their political vision hence the sacrifice of a sovereign nation i.e Greece.
If Greece defaults the effect on economies around the world let alone Europe are unknown because nobody is sure who is owed what,who has insured against Greece defaulting and with who (credit default swaps).
The whole criminal truth will be laid bare for all to see and no one will lend a thing to anybody,this is what happened in 2008.
Therefore the French and German banks willingness to defer the debts for thirty years (a default according to the rating agencies) or accepting Chinese help are both o.k with our eu masters.
Bailing out Greece in this manner whilst leaving the population in poverty is a disgrace and i hope the govt listens to the will of the people or are first against the wall for selling out their country.
Time magazine mentions:
Most Greeks agree that the tax system (see following story) and the bloated public sector, nicknamed "the country's sickest patient," are at the root of Greece's current problems. In a country of 11 million people, almost 850,000 workers are employed by the state, which means they receive 14 monthly paychecks instead of 12. Many enjoy a work day that runs from 7:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1959059,00.html
It is great and we would all like to work like this with the chance to retire when we are 50 but somwhere down the line someone has to pay for this and right now payment is due. Of course this hurts but belt tightening is everywhere.
Over 20 years ago the Spanish government made everyone register for tax purposes which is why we have a letter at the end of the NIE number. The Greeks have only just registered the whole population. How many have escaped through the net.
delderek
28-06-2011, 18:47
How strange with the euro going through this turmoil, that the pound is still falling against it:pray:
TheBloke
28-06-2011, 19:08
The protests in Greece are against the govts of the last thirty years who have got them into this situation in the first place.Greeks accept austerity but will fight against the brutal cuts they will have to live with due to the lies and corruption of a few.
The public sector is bloated and no one pays their taxes....all these things were known when Greece entered the euro but the architects of the union ignored the fraudulent financial information given to enable entrance and welcomed them with open arms then proceeded to lend them billions to achieve the normal european standard of living determined by France and Germany.
What the European union is doing to bail out Greece is illegal according to its constitution but these things are overlooked to save it.
all we holiday makers want to know is will we get a better deal on our exchange rates? lol and being as i have got my mortgage with santander and with the prospect of spain having to be bailed out i wonder if i could just fade into the background and stop my payments to them under some default ruling:pray::eyebrows:
How strange with the euro going through this turmoil, that the pound is still falling against it:pray:there is much talk of more quantative easing by the bank of england del, 50 billion i think thus devaluing the pound even more.6 eggs n a loaf will seem so much dearer to the uk tourist but will stay the same price for me
TenerifePool
29-06-2011, 02:46
The Euro as we know it today is doomed without doubt.
Roger Bootle wrote a really interesting article in the Telegraph a couple of days ago proposing a Northern and a Southern Euro as a possible way forward.
Personally I think he's talking sense.
The Break-up of the euro could usher in a welcome new dawn for Europe
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Break-euro-usher-welcome-new-tele-2667139526.html?x=0
Jackie Buyer
29-06-2011, 13:22
How strange with the euro going through this turmoil, that the pound is still falling against it:pray:
This is something I juts don't understand, why if the Euro is in such a mess are we still only getting 1.07 Euro to the £ - Can't get my head round that one, thought when the Euro troubles began we would get a better exchange rate
atlantico
29-06-2011, 13:25
It may be because the UK has so much invested in the Euro ? ie Bailouts like Ireland
It may be because the UK has so much invested in the Euro ? ie Bailouts like Ireland
The UK has contributed 3.8 billion pounds to the Irish bailout. As Ireland is its 4th biggest trading partner, this made good sense. The UK banks were exposed to the property market here but not so much in inter-bank lending. Greece and especially Spain, is an entirely different matter. The UK banks are exposed ( to the best of my knowledge ) to over 60 billion between the 2 countries, and even more to the remainder of the EU. This is one reason why the exchange rate isn't as favourable as one might think.
atlantico
29-06-2011, 16:19
so if a EU country whom has borrowed from the UK goes down . . . . . . . . so does the debt ?? and UK loses out ?
No wonder Sterling ain't looking good ! Everyone owes the UK something !!
The reason the pound is so low against the euro is because they are our biggest customer and because there may be a few (dont forget Belgium and Italy) countries having big problems in Europe but we aren't any better.
We owe a fortune and all the public sector can do is bleet on about why they should have their golden lined pensions while the rest of us go to the wall!
DJandDeid
04-07-2011, 15:51
It may be because the UK has so much invested in the Euro ? ie Bailouts like Ireland
The UK 'bailout' is a loan not a bailout, and at a high interest rate. The money is being used to pay back RBS for one, and other UK banks whose demise could destroy the UK. RBS precipitated in part the Irish Property bubble by offering 100% mortgages where none had ever been offered before drawing the Irish banks into the same game, and the inevitable gallop to disaster aided by a corrupt self seeking government. The UK, Ireland and the rest of Europe are the losers here. The banks who precipitated the crisis in the main are winning because it's the ordinary Joe soap who's footing the bill.
On another note (no pun intended) the Euro, like Sterling, is only a notion of value and can be renamed, revalued or disappear to be replaced by a different notion of value used for the exchange of real things. Currency has a little of the flavour of the 'emperor's new clothes' about it
No one forced the Irish banks to take part, they made their own choice.
No one forced people to take mortgages they couldnt afford, they chose to do it.
It is sooo easy to blame the banks,.... not that I like the banks they are far to greedy but we live in a democratic country where people make their own decisions.
The UK 'bailout' is a loan not a bailout, and at a high interest rate. The money is being used to pay back RBS for one, and other UK banks whose demise could destroy the UK. RBS precipitated in part the Irish Property bubble by offering 100% mortgages where none had ever been offered before drawing the Irish banks into the same game, and the inevitable gallop to disaster aided by a corrupt self seeking government. The UK, Ireland and the rest of Europe are the losers here. The banks who precipitated the crisis in the main are winning because it's the ordinary Joe soap who's footing the bill.
On another note (no pun intended) the Euro, like Sterling, is only a notion of value and can be renamed, revalued or disappear to be replaced by a different notion of value used for the exchange of real things. Currency has a little of the flavour of the 'emperor's new clothes' about it
Agreed 100%
No one forced the Irish banks to take part, they made their own choice.
No one forced people to take mortgages they couldnt afford, they chose to do it.
It is sooo easy to blame the banks,.... not that I like the banks they are far to greedy but we live in a democratic country where people make their own decisions.
Agreed as well, but if its the banks' mistakes, the ordinary taxpayer should not have to pay for the greed of others
DJandDeid
04-07-2011, 19:53
No one forced the Irish banks to take part, they made their own choice.
No one forced people to take mortgages they couldnt afford, they chose to do it.
It is sooo easy to blame the banks,.... not that I like the banks they are far to greedy but we live in a democratic country where people make their own decisions.
Not as simple as that. Everyone needs a place to live, so there's little choice involved when prices start to climb when one bank gives above the reasonable amount. People did take on mortgages that they could afford, relying on the banks having some fiscal rectitude and not bursting the artificial bubble they had created. Banks were considered safe before the sub-prime fiasco, so people were entitled to a reasonable expectation that the brown stuff wasn't going to hit the fan, unfortunately it did and now the ordinary family who tried to provide housing for themselves are paying for that mortgage and the money lost by the banks.
Not as simple as that. Everyone needs a place to live, so there's little choice involved when prices start to climb when one bank gives above the reasonable amount. People did take on mortgages that they could afford, relying on the banks having some fiscal rectitude and not bursting the artificial bubble they had created. Banks were considered safe before the sub-prime fiasco, so people were entitled to a reasonable expectation that the brown stuff wasn't going to hit the fan, unfortunately it did and now the ordinary family who tried to provide housing for themselves are paying for that mortgage and the money lost by the banks.
This has got to be one of the most consise insightful explanations I've come across. DJ&D, you've hit the nail square on the head. Great post!
this makes the pound weaker aswell,and they might be printing another 50billion.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7924506.stm
DJandDeid
04-07-2011, 20:30
"The Bank believes this form of QE is different because it is "printing money" as part of monetary policy - to prevent deflation. It is not printing money to help the government finance its deficit.
Also, unlike Zimbabwe, this is a temporary policy: the Bank expects to sell the government bonds back into the market when the economy recovers." BBC Sept 2010..................
A bit scary really...
here we go again,portugal now at junk status,dig deep to save the euro?is it a bottomless pit of money?http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14038529
princessmonika
06-07-2011, 07:38
what a statement ????? if the euro collapses it !!!!!will effect also the sterling
bonitatime
06-07-2011, 07:42
what a statement ????? if the euro collapses it !!!!!will effect also the sterling
Feeling seems to be it will drag the whole world back into a recession.
with cheese
06-07-2011, 08:01
Split the bloody thing back, see what happens, if we all keep backing it there will be deeper recession.
Feeling seems to be it will drag the whole world back into a recession.
Hey Boni at what point did we com out of the recession? Recession my ****, this is a great depression !!! This is going to run and run
This noon a bit after 16,30 the percentage Portugal has to pay for long term loans went up to 12,4% .
This can mean we have a new Greace cos this gigh percentage is not payable in the longrun .
Sent using Tapatalk.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14080021
Today the percentage payed by Spain on 10 year loans went abouve 6% for the first time in over 10 years time.
Its getting pritty close to 7% now , thats the limit were they can borrow on the free market and then would need bailing out also by the EU .
To be continued . . . .
Sent using Tapatalk.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14102285
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14113796
As long as the EU-policy remains 'throwing good money after bad money' the euro and credibility will sink.
Sent using Tapatalk.
atlantico
12-07-2011, 17:40
The Euro has taken a nosedive overnight and those of you with sterling would have been licking your lips this morning. However, with sterling also on the ropes, looking at the markets this morning will have been very disappointing. Investors, rather than risking sterling investment, are choosing to pump their money into well-known safe haven currencies such as the Yen, Swiss Franc and once again the US Dollar. Therefore sterling, for now, continues to be the dead duck...
cainaries
12-07-2011, 20:46
My nightmare is that the euro .. or a Spanish bank ... simply disappear overnight. Somehow I don't feel that can happen to sterling. Is anyone printing eurosuds or euronords anywhere? Or drachma and pesetas? We all have to go to the shops and buy food. Whether mega-rich bankers gain a bit or lose a bit doesn't worry me at all but the civil unrest and riots which could result if people can't buy food does worry me .. a lot. Should I start planting potatoes and cabbages?
tenerifechris
12-07-2011, 22:05
Someone on an earlier thread asked if anyone has any idea what will happen to those mortgage payers who have euro mortgages? If the euro does collapse, what happens to the money you owe? Any financial experts out there who has any ideas.
slodgedad
12-07-2011, 22:11
Someone on an earlier thread asked if anyone has any idea what will happen to those mortgage payers who have euro mortgages? If the euro does collapse, what happens to the money you owe? Any financial experts out there who has any ideas.
I would assume the euro debt would be automatically converted to pesetas.
I honestly think that Spain has always suspected this. Supermarket bills still give a peseta conversion.
tenerifechris
12-07-2011, 22:28
Hi, thankyou for your reply. I don't really understand the implications for this - if the euro was converted to the perseta. If I remember back to when there was the perseta was the currency, when it changed to the euro, there was a massive increase in property prices.
I guess I am asking what would be the implications, in terms of what you owe. How could this be adjusted? I mean would it cost more, the same or less do you think?
Thanks for your answer.
PS My only regret is that I did not buy when it was the peseta! My property would have not cost so much.
slodgedad
12-07-2011, 23:17
We all have the same regret.
Hindsight would have saved me my life savings.
All gone now. At least it's sunny every day..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14131959
This debacle is man made. Europeans conned into a currency under false pretences. All countries rounding up when converting, thereby causing artificial inflation, American banks being ordered (by Bill Clinton) to give mortgages to people who couldn't possibly afford them, greedy bankers taking thousands in bonuses which, years later, turn out to be undeserved.
It's okay for those at the top (and I don't mean someone with an apartment or two or €200,000 in the bank), I mean the very top, merchant bankers, rockstars, footballers, industrialists with multi-millions. It's the poor buggers at the bottom who suffer as usual. We all go to work, charge a fair day's wage for a fair day's work. Meanwhile the powers that be are shafting us from morning till night. Twas ever thus.
As per other threads, black money has a part in all this as countries can only function with revenues raised from the populace. I stopped doing deals for cash with tradesmen, don't buy dodgy DVDs etc. I'd rather we had a little less taxation in the UK so it would encourage more spending but the Government have to raise money for bailing out Ireland,Greece and anyone else with a cap. They also have to give money to Africa, India and any other country where they can't equate overbreeding with starvation.
Sorry, slight thread drift but I believe a lot of it is linked.
This debacle is man made. Europeans conned into a currency under false pretences. All countries rounding up when converting, thereby causing artificial inflation, American banks being ordered (by Bill Clinton) to give mortgages to people who couldn't possibly afford them, greedy bankers taking thousands in bonuses which, years later, turn out to be undeserved.
It's okay for those at the top (and I don't mean someone with an apartment or two or €200,000 in the bank), I mean the very top, merchant bankers, rockstars, footballers, industrialists with multi-millions. It's the poor buggers at the bottom who suffer as usual. We all go to work, charge a fair day's wage for a fair day's work. Meanwhile the powers that be are shafting us from morning till night. Twas ever thus.
As per other threads, black money has a part in all this as countries can only function with revenues raised from the populace. I stopped doing deals for cash with tradesmen, don't buy dodgy DVDs etc. I'd rather we had a little less taxation in the UK so it would encourage more spending but the Government have to raise money for bailing out Ireland,Greece and anyone else with a cap. They also have to give money to Africa, India and any other country where they can't equate overbreeding with starvation.
Sorry, slight thread drift but I believe a lot of it is linked.
Well said. Perhaps the cigarette smugglers on the previous thread should take note.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2014197/UK-hit-new-Irish-bailout-credit-rating-downgraded-junk.html?ITO=1490
cainaries
13-07-2011, 11:10
Hi, thankyou for your reply. I don't really understand the implications for this - if the euro was converted to the perseta. If I remember back to when there was the perseta was the currency, when it changed to the euro, there was a massive increase in property prices.
I guess I am asking what would be the implications, in terms of what you owe. How could this be adjusted? I mean would it cost more, the same or less do you think?
Thanks for your answer.
PS My only regret is that I did not buy when it was the peseta! My property would have not cost so much.
Think you might find the massive rise you refer to occurred just before the introduction of the euro not after it and was caused by people with black money hurriedly converting their black money into property since they were not going to be able to convert it into euros (not talking Brits here but Germans, maybe Dutch, Spanish even Irish ....)
It is true .. and I hadn't thought about it until someone posted above ... that all bills are also still in pesetas so, in fact, apart from printing the notes (or getting them out of the deep hole they buried them in), the Spanish could convert back overnight. All bank accounts simply converted back into pesetas at the original exchange rate. And then devalue presumably.
tenerifechris
13-07-2011, 12:43
Thanks for your reply. So, devaluation does occur, presumably anyone with a Euro mortgage, could potentially be better off? Or, is that too naive a thought?
Also when you say the 'original exchange rate' - you mean the Euro rate the property was exchanged at?
Many thanks again, you are really helpful, and I am concerned (in terms of having to find more money etc) what will happen, when perhaps inevitably the Euro collapses.
Thanks for your reply. So, devaluation does occur, presumably anyone with a Euro mortgage, could potentially be better off? Or, is that too naive a thought?
Also when you say the 'original exchange rate' - you mean the Euro rate the property was exchanged at?
Many thanks again, you are really helpful, and I am concerned (in terms of having to find more money etc) what will happen, when perhaps inevitably the Euro collapses.
The original exchange rate was when the peseta was converted to the Euro. I believe it was 166 point something pesetas to the Euro.
Taking a small step backwards here for a moment.
I'm not so sure that the Euro is doomed as a currency, although there is not doubt it faces some serious challenges.
I say this because right back at the beginning it was the then Europe that was desperate to have more members and the single currency, presumably because it suited the big boys at the time, specifically Germany and France. OK, now it is the same countries which are having to bail out the weaker ones, but why would Spain want to go back to the Peseta or Greece to the Drachma etc.
If I were Zapatero and/or his successors, I would be more inclined to take the view that, since this single currency thing was your idea then you are responsible for making it work during the bad times, especially since it benefitted you during the good.
Provided that the Government has followed the agreed rules of austerity measures, which Spain pretty much has (as opposed to Greece) then surely it is up to the rich buggers to provide the necessary support?
Who knows
atlantico
13-07-2011, 13:29
wed 13 jul 2011 just weeks after ratings agencies downgraded portugal's debt to 'junk', ireland has now followed suit. Rating's agency moody's has based its decision on the strong possibility that ireland will require a second bailout package before it is able to return to the capital markets
source = currency solutions
as more countrys seek bailouts there is less countrys paying in to the bailout fund,ie-spain and italy contributed to greece,ireland portugal bailouts.if italy and spain need a bailout it will be just 12 countrys able to contribute.thus makin each of the 12 in more debt,belgium goes under next leaving 11 to bail them out.where does it all stop?
Added after 2 minutes:
source = currency solutionsyou had a nice lie-in?i posted that in post 50:)
The term bailout fund is a little bit of a misnomer. The bailouts were funded by the IMF, EU and UK, ECB and what is called the European Financial Stability Fund. These are backed by the various central banks of countries around the world and in Europe. As far as I know, they can borrow funds at a small interest rate (2.2%) and pass it on to the countries that require money (Greece at 4.2%, Portugal at 4.9% and Ireland at 5.8%) All the various contributers will make money on what they have LOANED. In Irelands case, it will pay 9 billion in interest over the term. There are 2 things wrong with this (probably a lot more),
1. Ireland is meeting ALL requirements under the bailout agreements , yet are paying a higher percentage rate than the other two countries who are failing in their requirements. (How can this be justified?)
2. If a country is so badly off that it is requiring assistance from those above, why should there be a penalty of 9 billion to satisfy Trichet, Merkel and Sarkozy when it was their banks that aided and abetted the property bubble in Ireland ( and Spain)in the first place? Its sounds to me like "having your cake and eating it"
Also, regarding today's downgrading to junk status of Ireland, Moody's are applying the probability that increasing financial instability will prevent Ireland from re-entering the bond market before its bailout runs out. If it applied the parameters of treating Irelands case strictly on its financial situation as it stands, we would have increased 3/4 points on their rating scale????
they only make 9 billion if and when its paid back.nothing is guarenteed
they only make 9 billion if and when its paid back.nothing is guarenteed
True, but maybe I didn't make my point clearly enough. If a country is in such dire financial straits as to need a bailout ( which Ireland wasn't!) whats the point in penalising them even more when the austerity packages that the ordinary Joe Soap has to suffer, are so severe in any case?
cainaries
13-07-2011, 15:16
Thanks for your reply. So, devaluation does occur, presumably anyone with a Euro mortgage, could potentially be better off? Or, is that too naive a thought?
Also when you say the 'original exchange rate' - you mean the Euro rate the property was exchanged at?
Many thanks again, you are really helpful, and I am concerned (in terms of having to find more money etc) what will happen, when perhaps inevitably the Euro collapses.
Thanks for your kind words but I know far far less than most of the posters on here. I actually meant the rate at which the peseta was officially converted to the euro when it was introduced which I also remember as being 166 pesetas to the euro. So ... following yours and my logic ... your euro mortgage would convert into pesetas at 166 pesetas to the euro and then the peseta would drop against the pound (may be may be) and then, yes, your repayments would go down if you are using sterling to make them. But there are loads of imponderables in there including all the points made in the posts between yours and this reply of mine.
Brian1964
13-07-2011, 15:19
If you're looking for daily updates on the ups and downs of the Euro, Foreign Currency Exchange (http://www.foreign-currency-uk.com/) release daily reports on the markets that are quite helpful - http://www.foreign-currency-uk.com/daily_market_commentary
what do you think will happen?
Added after 3 minutes:
can this be added to the other thread please?
love my polls lol
atlantico
13-07-2011, 16:06
Most think the Euro will survive as a currency with 57% to 30% believing it will still be operational in 10 years – and a plurality, 46% to 36%, believing the Euro-zone will have recovered from the current financial crisis by then. Those who support EU exit, however, do not believe the Euro-zone will have recovered (48% to 37%).
politicshome.com (http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/31822/euro_crisis_turning_public_against_eu_membership.h tml)
I can't see how any member countries can actually leave it. If you're in an economic recession and have to change currencies, it'll be at an exchange rate that will be equal to what a Euro is worth at present. I don't personally think that the Euro has problems, its a few countries that have problems with the Euro. Euro members shouldn't have agreed to accept weak/fragile countries to join, so they'll have to 'prop them up' in the meantime.
The time for countries to opt out is when their Euro currency is strong and they get out so as to prevent another economic tragedy striking again. The downside to that it, if it still happens they'll have no one to help bail them out.
slodgedad
13-07-2011, 16:09
what do you think will happen?
Added after 3 minutes:
can this be added to the other thread please?
love my polls lol
Sorted...................
politicshome.com (http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/31822/euro_crisis_turning_public_against_eu_membership.h tml)
I can't see how any member countries can actually leave it. If you're in an economic recession and have to change currencies, it'll be at an exchange rate that will be equal to what a Euro is worth at present. I don't personally think that the Euro has problems, its a few countries that have problems with the Euro. Euro members shouldn't have agreed to accept weak/fragile countries to join, so they'll have to 'prop them up' in the meantime.
The time for countries to opt out is when their Euro currency is strong and they get out so as to prevent another economic tragedy striking again. The downside to that it, if it still happens they'll have no one to help bail them out.
The countries were credit tested before joining up and all passed ( could be the test wasn't strong enough) with the exception of Greece who basically lied about their financial status. I'm open to correction on this , but if memory serves, the next weakest was Italy.
Added after 10 minutes:
The countries were credit tested before joining up and all passed ( could be the test wasn't strong enough) with the exception of Greece who basically lied about their financial status. I'm open to correction on this , but if memory serves, the next weakest was Italy.
With regards to some countries leaving it, I reckon some will actually be cut free. If Greece needs a 3rd bailout ( I know they haven't even got the 2nd one yet) they will definitely, imo, be expelled. I also reckon Portugal will follow ( should they require a 2nd bailout) and that Ireland will be given the option of going. These countries would then be free to burn the senior bondholders and devalue their currencies . ( THe Germans and French will not like this as they are the senior bondholders, hence the battle to keep the Euro alive ). It should be noted that if ( and I think its becoming more realistic every day ) the Eurozone can agree to issue a "Euro bond" , the percentage rate of which would be set by the markets ( treating the entire eurozone as a single economic entity, not a collection of individual states), this would enable these countries , and the others who are in trouble, to access the markets once again and thereby nullify the need of more bailouts. The trouble with this is that the French and Germans would be paying a higher rate than at present. However, as more countries are becoming embroiled in this "contagion", the Franco/German banks are becoming more and more exposed to ever increasing debts and ( only my opinion) they will have to capitulate on this subject , sooner rather than later.
the end is nigh http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14150879
atlantico
15-07-2011, 12:02
Fri 15 Jul 2011 This evening sees the release of European banks stress test results. The results, due to be released at GMT 17:00 are essentially an annual health check on 90 European banks. Reports suggest that up to six Spanish banks are expected to fail the tests along with several in Greece. Overall, it is expected that anywhere between five and fifteen banks will fail. The stress tests have however masked some of the debt issues currently ravaging the continent, but even so, the euro is likely to struggle going forward.
Thu 14 Jul 2011 It's all been happening Stateside overnight, as ratings agency Moody's intimates that the US could lose its AAA rating should policy makers fail to agree a strategy to raise the debt ceiling. They really need to do this, as an obligation of some $14 trillion is in danger of becoming unmanageable. According to Moody's, should America default then its top-notch rating goes, spelling disaster for the greenback.
Wed 13 Jul 2011 Just weeks after ratings agencies downgraded Portugal's debt to 'junk', Ireland has now followed suit. Rating's agency Moody's has based its decision on the strong possibility that Ireland will require a second bailout package before it is able to return to the capital markets.
source = currencysolutions
bonitatime
15-07-2011, 15:59
The final question seems to be where is left to invest. Like when money moved out of the BRIC group finally it had nowhere to go and moved back.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14183041
atlantico
18-07-2011, 12:46
Mon 18 Jul 2011 Results released on Friday revealed that eight banks failed the European ‘stress tests’. The European Banking Authority, which carried out the tests also stated that another 16 banks were in the danger zone. Overall, five Spanish banks, one Austrian and two Greek banks failed. On Wednesday last week, one German bank pulled out of the tests effectively making it the ninth bank to fall foul. The UK has almost been cast aside as our nearest counterparts have stolen the majority of headlines this past week. With our four major banks all passing the EU stress tests (some better than others) we have been given a clean bill of health. Actually, perhaps that was just a shot of paracetamol that now appears to be wearing off. Don’t be fooled by sterling’s gains against the euro.
source = currencysolutions
bonitatime
18-07-2011, 17:24
Do we know which Spanish banks failed
finally a solution is found.the greeks 350million euro in debt that they cant repay,so the big guys have decided to give them another 100 million odd:spin::pray: :crazy: i wouldnt let them run a raffle
TenerifePool
22-07-2011, 23:15
Will the euro crisis will give Germany the empire it’s always dreamed of..?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100098260/this-crisis-will-give-germany-the-empire-its-always-dreamed-of/
BOOMMMMMMMMM http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14258888
spain looks like getting downgraded.squeeky bum time http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14340277
atlantico
03-08-2011, 14:37
Wed 3 Aug 2011
So much is the worry surrounding the Eurozone at the moment that Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Zapatero has even had to cancel his holiday!
At a time when the continent has squabbled through one of the most serious default threats, I think Mr. Zapatero can just about manage a couple more weeks at work before he 'suns it up'.
An overall threat to the Spanish economy continues, as dwindling unemployment, low growth and investors pulling their funds in the fear that long term, we may have a problem.
Societe Generale, France's second largest bank has recorded whopping reductions in second quarter profits due to its exposure to Greek debt. Data showed reductions of 31 percent from the same time last year. This news only cements our long term views that the Eurozone faces the challenging, if not impossible task of restoring investor confidence in the continent. It now appears that it is not only the peripheral nations that are at risk to potential debt contagion. The Swiss Franc has continued its climb to the top, strengthening to its highest level versus the euro and US Dollar. The currency appreciated as much as 0.3 percent against the euro and looks set to continue current trends. Now we know where all the money is !!
Like a quiet trip down a river, the British economy isn't moving very fast, but at least it's a sunny day. We can count ourselves lucky that some investors are even saying that we are at present one of very few safe havens. However, looking further down that river, reports of class 6 rapids are our potential downfall. I am indeed referring to the risks that are the US and the Eurozone
Asian stock markets have reacted abruptly to the recent debt ceiling increase in the US. Unfortunately, not in a good way. Shares across the Asian markets have fallen; tracking those in the US as it is evident the economy is struggling to recover. Medium to long term investors fear this will continue as public spending cuts are likely to affect growth which at present, is non-existent. The Tea Party, like a spoilt child eventually got their way. This forced President Barack Obama to come out fighting by clearly identifying the issues surrounding austerity measures that revolve solely around spending cuts.
Do we know which Spanish banks failed
5 in total, with Santander & BBVA being the 'shock' ones amongst them... Explains why our bank have started behaving like goons! (BBVA) :(
La Caixa is another total joke!Went in yesterday only to find they have increased their monthly maintenance fees by 100%!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14396557
Bradybunch
04-08-2011, 15:04
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14404852
Like we didnt know it was going to become wide spread. Italy and Spain have been named now. What is going to happen next?
junglejim
04-08-2011, 17:20
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14404852
Like we didnt know it was going to become wide spread. Italy and Spain have been named now. What is going to happen next?
The ordure is now gather pace downhill - hold on to your hats folks it´s going to get bumpy !!
tonythorne
04-08-2011, 18:10
I think it will stay as it is, because if the weaker members leave and revert to their own currencies, they will devalue. Then the Euro will climb in value and Germany and France, for a start, will find their exports will decline being too expensive. So, those two, at least, will do anything to hang on with the current situation as long as possible..!
right now all eyes is on spain and italy. alot of people bbc,fox news,cnn etc. saying that any day from now one of these countries will ask for a bailout. what will germany and the other euro countrys going to do. i am sure they can´t keep bailing out countrys
Bradybunch
05-08-2011, 11:13
The markets are reacting badly to all this and the American situation isnt helping. There is a talk of another recession, could we be talking to ourselves into it?. How much longer can the UK and the Euro community keep bailing these countries out? Something has got to give sooner or later.
How can one economy across Europe be sustained when each individual country has a different tax system.
Its going to get worse before it gets better.
I was originally thinking that the only way forward was an "Euro bond", but I'm beginning to think maybe this is now not enough. A structured default ( i.e. haircuts to the bondholders) is looming with either Spain or Italy. Spain in particular can feel aggrieved as they did not breach the "stability and growth" pact ( unlike Germany!). If a default is coming, more than one country will avail of the opportunity. Where this will lead the markets is anyone's guess. I, for one, am making sure that my money is in a AAA rated bank!
atlantico
05-08-2011, 19:16
are there any AAA rated banks left ?
Is there any money left ?
Whos got all the money then ?
are there any AAA rated banks left ?
Is there any money left ?
Whos got all the money then ?that's what i said to my dad tonight, WHO HAS ALL THE MONEY?
Those that have money are saving it. People in Ireland ( the few that have money) are actually saving 3 times the rate pre credit crunch. They are now saving 13 cents in every euro that comes into the household. This , obviously , is because of the uncertain future. In Ireland, at this moment, there is nearly 100 billion in savings and low to medium risk investment portfolios. Until they, and others like them across Europe, start to spend again , then domestic economies will at best continue to be sluggish.
The AAA rated bank I'm with is called Rabodirect, an online bank. The have a capital base of over 14% ( this compares with 8.8 % at Santander ). If you want a UK triple rated bank, I'm not sure if there is one. I think Standard Chartered may be your best bet
How about Cyprus being the next ones wanting a bailout?
Harmonicaman
06-08-2011, 09:45
How about Cyprus being the next ones wanting a bailout?
They aren't in the Eurozone...no, let me re-phrase that. Half of Cyprus is Greek, the other half is Turkish. Greece has already been bailed out twice and Turkey isn't a member of the EU yet.
They aren't in the Eurozone...no, let me re-phrase that. Half of Cyprus is Greek, the other half is Turkish. Greece has already been bailed out twice and Turkey isn't a member of the EU yet.cyprus will get a bailout,2 n a half years after joining the euro:crazy:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7165622.stm
Harmonicaman
06-08-2011, 10:19
cyprus will get a bailout,2 n a half years after joining the euro:crazy:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7165622.stm
How can Cyprus get a bailout Tony. The Greek part has already had 2 bailouts. That's like saying if Italy get a bailout then Sicily can have one too. Or am I missing something here? (Probably).
How can Cyprus get a bailout Tony. The Greek part has already had 2 bailouts. That's like saying if Italy get a bailout then Sicily can have one too. Or am I missing something here? (Probably).
Hi, H'man, I think Cyprus hasn't received any bailout funds yet because it is an independent country, although it has strong historical links to both Greece and Turkey. :wink2:
Harmonicaman
06-08-2011, 10:42
Hi, H'man, I think Cyprus hasn't received any bailout funds yet because it is an independent country, although it has strong historical links to both Greece and Turkey. :wink2:
That's what I was missing then, I thought Greece still governed the Greek part. The Northern part is Turkish and still using the Turkish Lira though, surely they won't get a bailout?
That's a bit of a grey area. As far as I know, the only country that recognises the independence of Northern Cyprus is Turkey. However, in practical terms, I think you are probably right in saying that a bailout will only apply to the southern half. The bond yields are currently running at 8.3% and when you consider bailout territory is assumed to be 7%, they are in trouble. The explosion a few weeks ago that killed a dozen people, also knocked out the majority of electrical power to the island. This, it seems, was the "straw that broke the camels back".
That's what I was missing then, I thought Greece still governed the Greek part. The Northern part is Turkish and still using the Turkish Lira though, surely they won't get a bailout?the old greek part is now a country in its own right,has its own nationlal anthem,football team and even does better than the uk in the eurovision **** song contest.
my parents have their savings with santander, should they be worried enough to take them out?
Harmonicaman
06-08-2011, 11:34
my parents have their savings with santander, should they be worried enough to take them out?
Mark, I think they would be better talking to a financial expert rather than getting our opinions on something as serious as life savings, however helpful we may try to be!:)
my parents have their savings with santander, should they be worried enough to take them out?
If its with Santander in the Uk it is covered to £85000.00 for single person or £170000.00 in joint account. If its over this amount I would recommend moving the excess to other banks. If the account is in Tenerife then I cannot help.
An 8% capital base is considered adequate by the ECB so Santander is deemed to be ok. However, Ireland's banks had increase their capital to 11% to instil confidence in them from financial markets. ( This is the reason why Ireland need the bailout). I would be confident enough if you are based in the UK, as the above poster said.
atlantico
23-08-2011, 14:20
It's so hard to believe that with all the problems the Euro has been going though, it's still holding it's own against the GBP and Dollar.
The debt problems in the zone are not going away, but it would seem that the markets are reacting to 'data of the moment', rather than paying much attention to the elephant in the room. There is fair opinion that debt contagion will bite chunks out of the EUR further down the line, but for now the currency is more than holding its own.
The rate today is around 1.14 , but I still expected better from the GBP than that by now.
The problem for sterling is that it's main export markets are in the Eurozone so it is always going to show some correlation between the two currencies. The fact that the euro is holding it's own against the dollar says (imo) more about the state of US finances than it does about the eurozone problems
willowlily
23-08-2011, 20:19
the other reason sterling is not stonger than it would be normallly under the present crisis is because of the continual quantitatative easing the uk is using to keep our exports competitive, we are slowly and quietly devalueing sterling
the other reason sterling is not stonger than it would be normallly under the present crisis is because of the continual quantitatative easing the uk is using to keep our exports competitive, we are slowly and quietly devalueing sterling
Very true, but i would expect this to come to an end soon, as inflation is beginning to affect GDP and therefore will have a negative effect on economic growth
Well its not really new is it.
They even had troubble in Roman times.
"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." Cicero , 55 BC
Sent using Tapatalk.
atlantico
30-08-2011, 13:17
they had 'public assistance' in 55 B.C. ??
2066 years ago ?
Sterling remains a dead duck, the euro continues to over perform and the US Dollar teeters on the brink
they had 'public assistance' in 55 B.C. ??
2066 years ago ?
Among the Greeks and Romans public assistance was given chiefly to those holding full citizenship.
In the Roman Empire, social welfare to help the poor was enlarged by the Caesar Trajan.
Trajan's program brought acclaim from many, including Pliny the Younger.
Oh and you had ``panem et circenses`` also (or bread and games):whistle:.
Roman politicians devised a plan in 140 B.C. to win the votes of the poor: giving out cheap food and entertainment, "bread and circuses", would be the most effective way to rise to power.
atlantico
30-08-2011, 14:29
pah !
That's how Social Security should still be !
Bread and Games . . . !
pah !
That's how Social Security should still be !
Bread and Games . . . !
Yes but dont think they would still get a lot of vouts if they would ownly give bread . lol
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Not all bad news on this side of the pond. Our bond yield is now down to 8.5% from 14% a few months ago. (Still think its disgraceful that we were forced to take a bailout in order to prop up the banks that caused the problem in the first place).The following is an editorial from the Financial Times this week.
"Ireland's epic economic binge was so intoxicating that the ensuing hangover was certain to be a long, painful and humbling experience.
Yet there are encouraging signs that the worst is over. Other countries caught in the eurozone's sovereign debt and financial sector turmoil could learn from the way that Ireland is nursing itself back to health.
To be sure, challenges remain. Unemployment is at its highest level since records began in 1967. Financial distress among home-owners is so acute that more than one in 10 mortgages are either in arrears or have been restructured.
Domestic demand is too weak to propel economic growth, and Ireland's prospects for an export-led recovery will be damped by a darkening global outlook. Lastly, Ireland's banks still rely on large cash infusions from the European Central Bank.
Nevertheless, Michael Noonan, finance minister, was justified in telling parliament on Thursday that Ireland had made "considerable progress" in extracting itself from the emergency that forced it last year to negotiate an €85bn international support package.
Wage cuts and price deflation have restored Irish competitiveness. In contrast to Greece and Portugal, its fellow occupants of the eurozone's intensive care unit, Ireland's current account deficit is moving into a surplus.
The rebound is explained partly by the multinational companies, chiefly US-owned, that use Ireland as a European base. But Irish policymakers have played their part, too.
By honouring its promise to the European Union and International Monetary Fund to cut its budget deficit, Ireland is regaining the confidence of global investors.
The Fine Gael-led coalition government earned credibility after it took power in March by swiftly cleaning up and consolidating Ireland's banking sector. Outside assistance has helped: eurozone leaders acted wisely in July when they eased the terms of Ireland's rescue loans.
All this explains why, despite severe debt market turbulence in July and August, Irish 10-year government bond yields have fallen to less than 9 per cent from over 14 per cent.
The patient is not yet fully on his feet. But Ireland is showing that, under the right conditions, recovery is possible."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9589000/9589399.stm
atlantico
14-09-2011, 09:28
French bank ratings downgraded by Moody's
Credit rating agency Moody's has downgraded two French banks because of their exposure to Greek debt.
Credit Agricole was cut from Aa1 to Aa2 and Societe Generale from Aa2 to Aa3.
A third bank, BNP Paribas, was kept on review for a possible downgrade.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Nicolas Sarkozy are due to hold talks on Wednesday with Greek Prime Minister George Panandreou, in response to growing market fears of an imminent debt default by Greece.
Now that 'France' and 'Germany' names are being mentioned in the same sentence as 'ratings downgraded', is this the start of the downfall of the Euro ?
The European Commission president, Jose Manuel Barroso, is to propose formally that the 17 eurozone governments jointly guarantee their debts.
He said Europe faced "the most serious challenge of a generation".
"Eurobonds" have been backed by several political leaders, including Italian Finance Minister Giulio Tremonti, as well as commentators such as billionaire investor George Soros.
However, Germany has repeatedly expressed its opposition to the idea.
Mr Barroso said Europe needed a "federalist moment" to rescue it from the debt crisis. amazing
Added after 11 minutes:
of course most euro nations will go for this as they are so much in debt,but will the german,dutch austrians etc go for it?i dont think so somehow.last chance saloon me thinks
Added after 5 Hours 26 minutes:
the canaries as a region gets downgraded eek http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_31948.shtml
police in south west spain unpaid http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14907211
Added after 1 32 minutes:
The European Commission president, Jose Manuel Barroso, is to propose formally that the 17 eurozone governments jointly guarantee their debts.
He said Europe faced "the most serious challenge of a generation".
"Eurobonds" have been backed by several political leaders, including Italian Finance Minister Giulio Tremonti, as well as commentators such as billionaire investor George Soros.
However, Germany has repeatedly expressed its opposition to the idea.
Mr Barroso said Europe needed a "federalist moment" to rescue it from the debt crisis. amazing
Added after 11 minutes:
of course most euro nations will go for this as they are so much in debt,but will the german,dutch austrians etc go for it?i dont think so somehow.last chance saloon me thinks
Added after 5 Hours 26 minutes:
the canaries as a region gets downgraded eek http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_31948.shtml
police in south west spain unpaid http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14907211barossa now wants a federal european superstate
Added after 2 minutes:
and now even the emerging global powers,brazil russia india china s africa(brics)are thinkin of saving the euro.they need us to buy there wares
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/sep/16/greece-finance-ministers-bailout-payment
Greece will, imo, go through a structured default before Christmas. The rules under which the EFSF are governed, will be changed to allow it to borrow using the existing funds as collateral. Once these new parameters are in place, Greece will be ALLOWED to default. The banks that are exposed to Greek debt i.e. French & German in particular, will then be recapitalised using this mechanism (EFSF).
I still don't think it will be enough to allay markets fears regarding the overall Eurozone debt. My thinking on this is that eventually ( 12- 18 months ), we will have Eurobonds which will enable weaker countries to trade again and will call a halt to bailouts from the stronger ones. I can, however, see one or two countries leaving the Eurozone before this will happen.
mind bogoling figures announced for the latest rescue fund.you know how much a trillion is?????heres an idea A million seconds is 11.57 days
A billion seconds is 31.7 years
A trillion seconds is 31,709 years
a very bad time for the people of greece...and a real problem world wide as normal it will hit the average person not the rich bankers ...or politicians........:(
the greeks are to have a referendom on the bailout/cuts.they have been given a saving of 100billion on there debt.will they accept the cuts....no.greece will be out of the euro soon enough.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15533940
tonythorne
01-11-2011, 13:13
the greeks are to have a referendom on the bailout/cuts.they have been given a saving of 100billion on there debt.will they accept the cuts....no.greece will be out of the euro soon enough.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15533940
It's a typical political delaying tactic... after a load of what will happen if not etc. etc. the referendum will be worded to guarantee an acceptance... e.g. Do you accept the EU ultimatum knowing that the alternative will be total disaster for our beloved country.
italy may need a bailout now http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15652708 be intresting to have a new poll and see what people think now.
I thought that a Euro bond would be the answer but it is too late now even if the Germans changed their minds. The only solution I can see would be if the ECB acted like a proper central bank by buying up all the bonds that it needs to buy, replacing these bonds with money, ( they can simply print the required money as per the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve) driving down interest rates and increasing liquidity. It will also have to impose a haircut on these bonds.As one economist says, "Such an approach would be financial suicide for a central bank -- if it had to make a profit. But it doesn't. So it can."
The main obstacle to this would be the Germans ( again!) who would fear inflationary pressures but the alternative, I believe, is a Europe wide ( not just Eurozone) decade long depression. Germany cannot have its cake and eat it. It must either row in behind the Euro or finally declare that it has no further interest in it. ( We'll see what happens to their economy if the latter should prevail).
Finally, it is interesting to note that while Germany sits on its lofty perch pontificating on the lack of fiscal control of some countries, Germany itself was guilty of breaching the SGP ( Stability and Growth Pact ) drawn up mainly by themselves, during the years 2003 -2006. It is time, imo, for them to step up to the plate.
think your right,quantative easing the only way out.it will see the euro fall in value against the pound.might even be able to put my prices up:wink2:
YOUNG GOLFER
09-11-2011, 12:50
think your right,quantative easing the only way out.it will see the euro fall in value against the pound.might even be able to put my prices up:wink2:
Again:spin::spin::spin::spin::spin::laugh:
think your right,quantative easing the only way out.it will see the euro fall in value against the pound.might even be able to put my prices up:wink2:
any old excuse!:laugh:
Again:spin::spin::spin::spin::spin::laugh:wheres that estate agents thread gone:dontknow:
YOUNG GOLFER
09-11-2011, 15:38
wheres that estate agents thread gone:dontknow:
It's here mate.
http://www.tenerifeforum.org/tenerife-forum/showthread.php?10187-Update-on-competent-incompetent-Estate-Agents/page6&highlight=estate+agents
spain will ask for a bailout next week or the week after http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/11/25/uk-eurozone-idUKTRE7AK0D320111125?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews
bonitatime
26-11-2011, 20:55
It is interesting reading UK reports against reports in German and French speaking newspapers. They don't see the complete disaster seen by the English speaking press
dday is just round the corner http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/11/29/idINIndia-60782320111129
canary boy
29-11-2011, 17:23
Austerity measures by the new Spanish government is to cut thousands of council jobs, I wonder whether that will include all the inspectors for illegal lettings, when spain goes belly up lets think of all those land grab victims HE HE:bootyshake::bootyshake::bootyshake:
bonitatime
29-11-2011, 20:34
The inspectors work either for regional or central government
canary boy
29-11-2011, 21:21
regional central whatever everything has to be cut cut cut:tiphat::tiphat:
The last people to go will be those who have the potential of raising many millions of euros (or Pesatas).
breaking news http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16553532
Added after 3 Hours 9 minutes:
breaking news http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16553532france downgraded http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16552623
bonitatime
13-01-2012, 21:40
Interestly no one commented that both Spain and Italy managed to sell a the bonds they needed and at a much lower rate that expected.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9009611/Italy-and-Spain-pass-key-bond-tests.html
even the bailout funds been downgraded now lol http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16586807
This EU project's going quite swimmingly, isn't it? ;)
BOOM http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17706434 HERE WE GO AGAIN,big property crash coming me thinks
bonitatime
13-04-2012, 20:24
I don't think the next couple of years atre going to be much fun but reform is necessary. Including co-Pago which will probably see us contributing to health care as we use it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17725771
Added after 3 Hours 58 minutes:
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2128699/Sterling-hits-19-month-high-euro.html
oh deary me http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17864647
albertos bus
27-04-2012, 20:44
How strange with the euro going through this turmoil, that the pound is still falling against it:pray:
the pound is 7% higher against the euro than this time last year.
that is STILL 24 percent down in the last ten years
http://www.ecb.int/stats/exchange/eurofxref/html/eurofxref-graph-gbp.en.html
i also read today that SPAIN Will be within its debit ceiling next year . payments to dole money have levelled out . dont forget 150,000 people left spain last year and there aint many non spanish left who still get any benefits .i will have a bet with you that spain comes out of rescission before the UK
You mean out of the euro with another 2 million unemployed
They'll be wanting Franco back next
Sundowner
27-04-2012, 22:41
unlike the uk where you can sit on your bs forever and get paid,the money runs out here.... so those NON SPAINISH WORKERS who were brought in during the boom times will drift back to there own country's (including the brits that were here some i know for over 25 years) lowering the unemployment rate and the amount they pay out ....out of the 27 members of the EU 17 have the euro another 3 are fixed in ERM 2 and another 3 are in euro but not in the EU...
another two years of the posh boys printing money and the debt increasing in the uk as it is god help you
You are starting to sound like the Argentine government........blame any problems on the Brits.........it works for a while.....but eventually reality kicks in!!!
Harmonicaman
27-04-2012, 23:05
ive no idea what that means ....???
try sending a british aircraft carrier there now .... you could ask the spanish they have a brand new one
and a spare one as well ....
im not blaming the BRITS but you dont understand that your getting in a bigger hole every day ...the posh boys are printing money which your banks should lend to the small companies but there buying factories in china with it ...and the yield on long term money - which pays private pension is going down the tube....
also with that amount of money printing the pound should be a lot higher then it is .....
god knows whats going to happen over there ....
...God knows what's going to happen anywhere...:(
unlike the uk where you can sit on your bs forever and get paid,the money runs out here.... so those NON SPAINISH WORKERS who were brought in during the boom times will drift back to there own country's (including the brits that were here some i know for over 25 years) lowering the unemployment rate and the amount they pay out ....out of the 27 members of the EU 17 have the euro another 3 are fixed in ERM 2 and another 3 are in euro but not in the EU...
another two years of the posh boys printing money and the debt increasing in the uk as it is god help you
Most Brits here were never on the official employment lists they were either retired selfemployed or in the black economy so would make no difference to official figures the same goes for many other nationalities
So basicly your unemployment figures are all Spanish
And sorry if you think that now you can draw benefits in the UK forever think again its getting a lot more difficult
TheBloke
28-04-2012, 01:35
So Satellite is that a yes or no to the OPs original question?
Will the Euro survive?
Satillite you make me laugh
Please when you quote from news items will you please give the source it enables other people to decide whether it is trustworthy
As your latest post was quoted from Fox News!!! I will say no more
Actually Thor, the Euro is ultimately doomed. As a European you will well know that the differences in attitude and expectations between northern industrial countries and southern agricultural countries are simply too great for a single currency to work.
The Euro will probably still exist in name but that is about where it must inevitably end. There will have to be at least 2 variations, perhaps even 3 to account for the former Eastern block countries and their differences.
The UK does have its fair share of problems, created primarily, as in Spain, by left of centre spending policies and a seemingly oblivious understanding of how the real world works, but the jolly old British Pound will outlive most of us on this board, certainly longer than the Johnny Foreigner Euro as it is structured today.
Added after 2 minutes:
Actually Thor, the Euro is ultimately doomed. As a European you will well know that the differences in attitude and expectations between northern industrial countries and southern agricultural countries are simply too great for a single currency to work.
The Euro will probably still exist in name but that is about where it must inevitably end. There will have to be at least 2 variations, perhaps even 3 to account for the former Eastern block countries and their differences.
The UK does have its fair share of problems, created primarily, as in Spain, by left of centre spending policies and a seemingly oblivious understanding of how the real world works, but the jolly old British Pound will outlive most of us on this board, certainly longer than the Johnny Foreigner Euro as it is structured today.
Amusingly, many commentators still refer to the Euro/Single currency as an "experiment" which is an interesting and somewhat ironic description. Experiment it was, and one which perhaps was worth a try but is now going horribly wrong
the euro will last longer then the pound will in the UK...its a pointless post based on most people not understanding the basic facts .which i as a EUROPEAN living in EUROPE am happy to support
Added after 3 minutes:
i am happy to do so as long as all your future posts quote a source as well
or you start them with ´´in my option ´´ then people will know they are based on fact not just ´´what i think is ´´
other than from other peoples posts I do not make direct quotations
however in future whether written or not all my posts should read as if they begin with "In my opinion"
but I fail to understand your idea that I should start my post with"In my option"
Satillite you make me laugh
Please when you quote from news items will you please give the source it enables other people to decide whether it is trustworthy
As your latest post was quoted from Fox News!!! I will say no more
Actually I have just been reading that report, word for word, in todays' (English) Supplement in the local Diario de Avisos :)
spain will pull out of the euro,all debts will be put on hold.the peseta will be back making the country competetive.brits will come flocking.everyone but the bankers wins.:snore:
was in los cris yesterday,could of been in china,loadsa them about
welshman
28-04-2012, 14:17
the euro will last longer then the pound will in the UK...its a pointless post based on most people not understanding the basic facts .which i as a EUROPEAN living in EUROPE am happy to support
Satilite what planet are you going around.
I own and run 2 business in the UK yes its been difficult but things are slowly improving work being returned from China and India. Its the total red tape tosh from the EU thats holding everything back. Our government has realised that the country needs to support manufacturing which create real jobs and wealth. Its in our hands to compete and grow. Spent the last 2 years developing new products for the market. The £ will grow but euro countries are to indebt and the Germans and the French will not continue to support you all.
他们游客 .... sorry forgot you not speak han - were they tourists ... nah,was kickin out time for school,so theres many more of them lil nippers to come
makes it a bit of a waste of time because i try to use facts and information to get a point across and what you post is ´´In my opinion´´ can you not try and find some back up for what you think it will make your case stronger then it is ...
Well you could always use your OPTIONS
Added after 3 minutes:
Actually I have just been reading that report, word for word, in todays' (English) Supplement in the local Diario de Avisos :)
Out of interest did they acknowledge the quote or say where it originated
FACT UK PUBLIC DEBT (76%) LARGER THEN SPAIN (60%)
SOURCE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_sovereign-debt_crisis
Till they have to support the Spanish banks (soon) witch will ruin Spains puplic debt .
Sent using Tapatalk.
For Goodness sake Thor, give it a rest.
The title of this thread has a question mark which indicates an invitation for the expression of opinions. Just because you have been asked (rightly) to give a source for some of your statements, there is no need to be so blatently and openly rude to the other posters who, as invited by the OP, are giving their thoughts and opinions, not just a copy/paste from inacurate sources such as Wiki.
Please go away and start your very own Thor Tenerife - I am going to argue with EVERYONE forum, before everyone here does the same.
Thanks
Oh yes - were you never told it is rude to shout?
I hope euro will die. As soon as possible taking european union in grave. In France prices have almost double since 2002 and what is the result so far ? We're no longer a sovereign state. EU is the master. All decision are taken in Bruxelles or Strasbourg and despite moanings of pretendants to french presidential election we already know that the next president will be the puppet of European Council and all...
Harmonicaman
28-04-2012, 20:03
I hope euro will die. As soon as possible taking european union in grave. In France prices have almost double since 2002 and what is the result so far ? We're no longer a sovereign state. EU is the master. All decision are taken in Bruxelles or Strasbourg and despite moanings of pretendants to french presidential election we already know that the next president will be the puppet of European Council and all...
Francois Hollande is going to tell Angela Merkel to get stuffed!:)
For Goodness sake Thor, give it a rest.
The title of this thread has a question mark which indicates an invitation for the expression of opinions. Just because you have been asked (rightly) to give a source for some of your statements, there is no need to be so blatently and openly rude to the other posters who, as invited by the OP, are giving their thoughts and opinions, not just a copy/paste from inacurate sources such as Wiki.
Please go away and start your very own Thor Tenerife - I am going to argue with EVERYONE forum, before everyone here does the same.
Thanks
Oh yes - were you never told it is rude to shout?
I wouldn't waste your breath Muppet.
Arguing with someone like Satellite on the forum is like competing in the special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still a retard. :)
welshman
28-04-2012, 20:24
please supply some SOURCE of ´´working returning from india and china´´
love to see the website ´´Spent the last 2 years developing new products for the market´´
SOURCE please ´´The £ will grow´´ its still 24 percent down after 10 years
but euro countries are to indebt - comparted with who ???
the Germans and the French will not continue to support ´´you all ´´
who is this ´ýou all´´ - are you refering to the HALF A BILLION people using the euro
if i wanted to buy your new product how much would it cost me when they are ready next year . can i have a fixed price now please . i have got 2 more quotes of your product from france and germany of €23 and €25 euro per item ...please advice .customer in the eurozone
i can pay them by using my EURO debit card ,and will only be charged the same fee as if i went to my local supermarket or petrol station about 80c...please include the FIXED cost of paying for your products in your local money ´´the pound´´
I agree the £ has been devalued but does that not make us more competitive. I have delt with China and India infact I,m out in China next week was in India in Oct on business their wages are rising 18/20% per year.The fact is labour is still cheap at £150 per month but with wages going up year on year and the shipping half way round the world how long will it continue. China has seen its cost increase due to the strength of the dollar. We have fallen 20% the same can be said about increase cost from China due to the dollars strength. I do not have to justify to you as I deal day in day out with these countries. I don,t believe in the papers or the press I know whats happening in my industry the weak have fallen the strong will grow. Just invested 500K in new premises for the growth during the next 2 years. No bank funding just hard cash
Will contact you in the next few months to see if you can market in Tenerife.
Harmonicaman
28-04-2012, 20:38
I agree the £ has been devalued but does that not make us more competitive. I have delt with China and India infact I,m out in China next week was in India in Oct on business their wages are rising 18/20% per year.The fact is labour is still cheap at £150 per month but with wages going up year on year and the shipping half way round the world how long will it continue. China has seen its cost increase due to the strength of the dollar. We have fallen 20% the same can be said about increase cost from China due to the dollars strength. I do not have to justify to you as I deal day in day out with these countries. I don,t believe in the papers or the press I know whats happening in my industry the weak have fallen the strong will grow. Just invested 500K in new premises for the growth during the next 2 years. No bank funding just hard cash
Will contact you in the next few months to see if you can market in Tenerife.
Lend us a fiver mate...:)
welshman
28-04-2012, 20:47
You can have as many fiver,s as you like if satilite can do my shipping for 2/3%
Francois Hollande is going to tell Angela Merkel to get stuffed!:)
No he won't. He's a big fan of european federalism just like all french labors leader (most of french tories are the same i must admit). And how can you say Angela merkel to get stuffed when your national money is deutschmark ? Euro is deutschmark whatever it's named.
It's election time in France and by the way time of promises that won't ever-never be kept.
"promises only bind those who believe in them" Jacques Chirac
Harmonicaman
28-04-2012, 21:00
No he won't. He's a big fan of european federalism just like all french labors leader (most of french tories are the same i must admit). And how can you say Angela merkel to get stuffed when your national money is deutschmark ? Euro is deutschmark whatever it's named.
It's election time in France and by the way time of promises that won't ever-never be kept.
"promises only bind those who believe in them" Jacques Chirac
He says he will. Quite a respectable British newspaper this one..Daily Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9232472/Frances-Francois-Hollande-and-Germanys-Angela-Merkel-clash-over-euro-austerity-pact.html)
How are things in Normandie by the way?
hollandie wants the euro devalued
slodgedad
29-04-2012, 02:26
hollandie wants the euro devalued
Devalued against what?
willowlily
29-04-2012, 12:39
Devalued against what?
against itself, a bit of quantitative easing. and a chase to the bottom.
all these sticking plasters just to keep the big boys in brussels at the trough.
keep some dollars and sterling cash handy when in europe and get ready for the second biggest bang in history. as the saying goes its not a question of
" IF BUT WHEN "
´´against itself´´ i have no idea what you mean ???
´´quantitative easing´´ no way the german wont allow the ECB to PRINT MONEY
it leads to massive inflation ,if you fall back into a resection
Were you abducted during the past year?
The ECB have been "printing" money for the past year electronically and giving it as direct loans to banks through the back door.
These banks in turn buy up government bonds to stop the euro bond auctions from total collapse which in turn keeps interest rates from spiking.
Everything is the same as quantitative easing except in name.
Finally, as far as falling back into "resection", with the dangerous knowledge you spout, the only one who needs to be resectioned is you my friend. :)
welshman
29-04-2012, 13:09
Invest in silver and gold there is going to be a big correction in the next year or so. In all currencies every country have over spent. Invested in gold and silver back in 2003 when our Gordon sold his, made a few dollars better than any pension. Presently in a vault in london but looking for safe haven other than the banks, just incase there is a run on them and all assets are seized. Not one currency is safe from whats happening its paper after all press a button and we have got more worthless devalued currency with out anyone realising it.
Invest in silver and gold there is going to be a big correction in the next year or so. In all currencies every country have over spent. Invested in gold and silver back in 2003 when our Gordon sold his, made a few dollars better than any pension. Presently in a vault in london but looking for safe haven other than the banks, just incase there is a run on them and all assets are seized. Not one currency is safe from whats happening its paper after all press a button and we have got more worthless devalued currency with out anyone realising it.
I agree.
The only currency that has any true intrinsic value at the moment is the Yuan. The dollar has been weakening daily against it since the Chinese authorities allowed their currency to rise to true levels of exchange.
Commodities/Precious Metals are a no brainer but like you say, governments may well end up confiscating significant amounts of personal possessions if they become desperate.
Precious metals have retreated slightly from their peaks due to large funds liquidating positions to fund other assets.
The Euro cannot survive in its present form and after the Chinese turned them down after they begged for help in propping it up, the only thing they can do is more of the same........print print print. :)
The ECB have NOTbeen prinitng money they have been LENDING money
as you say which they got from mostly the GERMANS ..your spending to much time driving that taxis of yours
To quarrel with a drunk is to wrong a man who is not even there! :)
delderek
29-04-2012, 15:58
The ECB have NOTbeen prinitng money they have been LENDING money
as you say which they got from mostly the GERMANS ..your spending to much time driving that taxis of yours
Another little gem you will like. The UK has been borrowing money at less than 2% and lending it to European countries at 4 to 5%. A lot less bother than exporting goods.....:sorry:
welshman
29-04-2012, 16:09
Why does my spanish bank account still have valuation and calculations still in the pesata after all this time. Was it just incase the euro excercise did not work !!!
Spain is to big to bail out, it will have to revert back and prosper.
delderek
29-04-2012, 16:14
a good plan - unless your costs go up and you end up paying more interest then you get back ...
they get the money from the ECB who are lending at 1% over 7 days (€46,369,000,000)
http://www.ecb.int/mopo/implement/omo/html/index.en.html
Thats short term loans, to stop Spanish banks going broke, not the bonds that govt need for long term finance. i,e Spain is now paying nearly 6%. The UK is paying 1.78%, the lowest ever paid by the UK. Maybe just maybe the UK is doing something right.
welshman
29-04-2012, 16:29
its for old people to help them out - its the same in all the country's of the euro and those in the ERM II have there local money and what it is in euros as well as they are fixed to the euro (bulgaria,denmark,etc)
Do you realy believe that ,after all this time :cheeky::laugh:
We still price everything in pound shillings and pence for the old folk like me that can remember :spin::spin::spin:
Any way folks have a great day. Out for meal for my birthday need to get ready. Celibrated last year in the White Wind Mill !! El Blanco !! wish I was there now its pissistantly raining. Good bit of banter till another day look after yourselves:tiphat::tiphat:
welshman
29-04-2012, 16:43
still have weights in IB and OZ in supermarkets in the UK even if they have no legal standing ...do you think
that you will be going back to them because they are on the packet ???
satelite your to serious lighten up :idea::idea:
welshman
29-04-2012, 17:11
Your not that young then !!!
Have a great day, family taking me out for a few vino,s and a meal at my favourate Indian :duh:
Sundowner
29-04-2012, 20:30
shipping is 2-3 percent of cost by sea container that has been standard for years i surprised you did not know that
where are you from as your not welsh .... to many english syntax errors stands out a mile .my guess is china or india and i will go with china....
Shipping costs depend on what you are shipping!! A container load of mobile phones will be different to a container of Granite,marble or any heavy shipment!
delderek
29-04-2012, 22:29
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/629/629/7600053.stm
i must admit my only information was a bbc program on the history of the container where they said that they had reduced cost of shipping to 2-3% ,maybe just for general good up to a certain weight .is there not a weight limit for one .. so like 40,000 mobile phones / or one lump of lead = same price ????
Two sizes of standard shipping containers, 20ft or 40ft but the weight allowed is the same, 28 tonnes I think, as this is the maximum allowed to be put on a truck to keep the gross weight under the current limits. So you could get an awful lot of mobile phones in one, but not much Granite, that's why the percentage figures mean nothing. And yes the price is roughly the same, irrespective of commodity (with exceptions of course)
tozcal2011
30-04-2012, 15:42
I cannot see Spain wanting to jump ship. The big new fiscal measures, such as IGIC Tenerife from 5 % to 7% which will be implemented soon show that mainland Spain is set to try anything to avoid it. However in my mind, Spain behaves like a cat which bites its own tail. You cannot put straight jackets to many Spanish sectors and expect to protect tourism. Spain could very well fall off the ship, instead. However, lets hope that the fat lady hasn't sung yet for the Canary Islands.
cant say thay a 2 percent increase in indirect taxs is a massive increase ,its what they did with IVA in madrid .
still the lowest in europe ....try living in hungry with VAT at 27% you would be would you not
says that the current rate of IVA goes up to 20% next year anyone know when ??
An increase in ICIG from 5% to 7% is actually an increase in taxation of 40%
cant say thay a 2 percent increase in indirect taxs is a massive increase ,its what they did with IVA in madrid .
still the lowest in europe ....try living in hungry with VAT at 27% you would be would you not
says that the current rate of IVA goes up to 20% next year anyone know when ??
Depends how you look at it.
You only need roughly £2850 to own £1,000,000.00 Forints so your case regarding VAT is totally flawed. :)
The cost of living in Hungary is much much cheaper so your argument is pretty pointle
THe sooner you learn a bit basic maths you could possibly start to understand about economics
its THat dam degree in political history getting in way again ....
ill try some numbers out now ...UK IMPORTS FROM CHINA 2011 €38,785,000
UK EXPORTS TO CHINA 2011 €09,844,000
GERMAN IMPORTS FROM CHINA 2011 €64,601,000 POP 81M
GERMAN EXPORTS TO CHINA 2011 €64,257,000
UK EXPORTS TO USA 2011 €41,555,000 POP .. 62 MILLION
UK IMPORTS FROM USA 2011 €33,,000,000
REPUBLIC OF IRELAND EXPORTS TO USA €21,306,000 POP 4 MILLION
roi IMPORTS FROM USA €06,000,000
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page/portal/external_trade/introduction
And what are these figures meant to show
slodgedad
01-05-2012, 00:09
But what do the facts you have supplied mean?
Angusjim
01-05-2012, 07:19
Heres some useful; facts about the cheese market in the UK I think they speak for themselves :tiphat:
Cheese Market
Published 13 March 12
Cheese Expenditure and Volume
Cheese sales for the 52 weeks ending 25 December 2011, when compared with the previous year:
•Total cheese expenditure has increased by 5.9% to £2.6billion.
•The average price of a kilo of cheese has increased by 3.8% to £6.26/kg.
•Volume sales have increased by 2% year on year (YOY) to 415,843 tonnes
•The average price of both loose and pre-packed cheese increased YOY to £7.17/kg and £6.21/kg respectively. Pre-packed now accounts for 95% of total cheese volume sales.
•Volume sales of soft (+11.2% YOY) and processed cheeses (+3.9% YOY) continue to increase with volumes seeing little movement for territorials (-0.1% YOY)
Total Cheese Market - Loose and Pre-packed
The latest results from Kantar Worldpanel show that volume sales in the cheese market are currently 415,843 tonnes representing growth of 2%. In actual terms this is an increase of 8,194 tonnes vs. last year. Growth in value sales was at +5.9% with the market now worth £2.6bn. The total average price per kg now stands at £6.26/kg which is 3.8% higher than the same period last year where average cost was £6.03/kg.
Volume sales of loose cheese continue to fall with the rate remaining at -0.4% YOY. The loose volume sales of 22,608 tonnes account for 5.4% of the total market. Pre-packed volumes increased by 2.2% YOY. The average price of both loose and pre-packed cheese increased YOY by 3.6% and 3.9% respectively. The average price of loose cheese is now 96p higher per kg than pre-packed cheese.
delderek
04-05-2012, 15:43
The Transfer of Spanish banks Toxic Debt (real estate) now to be voluntary.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/03/us-spain-banks-idUSBRE84213P20120503
delderek
10-05-2012, 08:32
Bankia the fourth largest bank Rescued (Nationalised.)
The forced rescue was ordered by premier Mariano Rajoy after auditors Deloitte refused to sign off the bank's books, amid allegations of €3.5bn (£2.8bn) of inflated assets. Half of the bank's €37bn of property exposure is deemed "problematic" by regulators.
The lender has asked for €4.5bn in loans, converting the cash into ordinary shares. The Spanish government holding 45pc of the bank in return. Bank of Spain has also demanded Bankia dispose of assets as part of the rescue.
willowlily
10-05-2012, 10:23
Caja Madrid Bancaja La Caja de Canarias
i wondered why i never heard of it its a combo bank from 2010 . another caja along with caja canaries going to be in a fire sale soon of property
derek whats this mean ??
The new rules will increase provisioning levels on healthy real estate loans to about 30 percent from 7 percent now, said a person familiar with the situation who asked not to be identified because the plan isn’t public. That may amount to a further 30 billion euros in charges for their real estate, the person said.
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/92297407/
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/92353841/
if they can't ( BLIND US WITH SCIENCE THEY TRY TO BAFFLE US WITH BULL*HIT )
but they know that we know that they know the euro experiment game is up.
bonitatime
10-05-2012, 12:06
Caja canarias is not the same as la Caja de canarias
Caja canarias and Banca Civica which it is part of have just been bought/merged with La Caixa which is a Catalan bank.
The original merger for Bankia was after the stress tests in 2010 and was widely discussed in the Spanish press
delderek
11-05-2012, 10:37
Caja Madrid Bancaja La Caja de Canarias
i wondered why i never heard of it its a combo bank from 2010 . another caja along with caja canaries going to be in a fire sale soon of property
derek whats this mean ??
The new rules will increase provisioning levels on healthy real estate loans to about 30 percent from 7 percent now, said a person familiar with the situation who asked not to be identified because the plan isn’t public. That may amount to a further 30 billion euros in charges for their real estate, the person said.
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/92297407/
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/92353841/
This may explain it better:
INDEPENDENT VALUATION
The government asked the banks to set aside 30 percent of their sound loans to housebuilders, up from a current 7 percent, but the banks, including major players Santander and BBVA, had pushed back with a lower number.
The creation of holding companies for each bank's problematic property assets would be voluntary for lenders able to make the provisions with no external help. But those that cannot would be forced to set up liquidation schemes and request public money, the sources said.
Full report here: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/11/us-spain-banks-idUSBRE8491LI20120511
lots of italian banks downgraded today ,greece in chaos.the euro plummetting the end is nigh.
cainaries
14-05-2012, 22:12
Sky News press preview commentators tonight talking about the contagion spreading to Spain after Greece. (Not sure why it would be Spain next rather than Portugal, Ireland, etc.). Anyone have any ideas how it would affect us directly (those of us resident here) if this actually happened?
willowlily
14-05-2012, 23:32
the euro will last longer then the british pound ...
the euro will not survive a year in its current form, and i will remind you satellite
when it goes belly up how wrong you are
[QUOTE=SATELLITE;177357]the euro will last longer then the british pound .
WTF you drinkin?:spin:
Ecky Thump
15-05-2012, 09:25
i was playing with words -
after the scottish vote for independence they will form there own pound and there will be two .
2014 scottish pound ´´pund´ STARTS
2016 PUND ceases to be fixed to english POUND
2017 joins ERM ll - scottish pund - fixed by 2% band to the EURO
2020 REPUBLIC OF SCOTLAND JOINS EURO
´´a fine day fpr scotland´´ say president LORD Thomas Sean Connery
´´ good luck ´´ says KING GEORGE the seventh of ENGLAND .....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_referendum
Not a funny post or informative, just plain stupidity!
The sooner you are banned the better ..
willowlily
15-05-2012, 12:53
another daily mail reader :laugh:
" IT TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE " or maybe not considering the spelling and grammar
in your posts.
16 spanish banks just been downgraded,spains borrowing costs have soared today,1 billion withrawn from bankia in last week, bankia shares plunge 30% just today.wont be long now
Harmonicaman
17-05-2012, 21:42
16 spanish banks just been downgraded,spains borrowing costs have soared today,1 billion withrawn from bankia in last week, bankia shares plunge 30% just today.wont be long now
Get shutters fitted to your bar Tony...:wink:
Harmonicaman
17-05-2012, 22:07
there not that desperate to get away from the cabaret
Remember the post I made about Spain still to stand in the dog s**t, well I think the dog's just dropped one and Manuel is coming down the street...
Remember the post I made about Spain still to stand in the dog s**t, well I think the dog's just dropped one and Manuel is coming down the street...frustratin thing is,the government wasnt doin that bad,its the banks that have foo ked it up:mad:
breaking news!! moodys just downgraded greece from bbb to ccc and also downgraded 16 spanish banks in spain like santader, bbva, cajamadrid, bankia from bbb to bb allready spanish people took out 100 million euros in 2 days and greece people took out so far 500 million euros in 4 days now and counting fast.....
What are the real asset values of the banks ?
Santander included sertainly with 2010 trillions estimates you give .
3 million empty overvalued propertys in Spain?
Think Santander is clearly in negatve . . . .
Following along the lines of the thread title, it's looking more and more likely that the European Central Bank will attempt to print it's way out of the present quagmire so although the Euro may continue, it's value will be severely depleted in the process.
Here's an excerpt from a blog I quoted previously from the founder of Weiss Research himself....
Martin Weiss.
"Any country with unemployment over 10% is obviously in the midst of a great recession or even a depression.
Spain’s latest tally of official unemployment (for the fourth quarter of last year) was 22.9%. And, based on a record new surge in registered job seekers reported on Friday, it’s now probably much higher.
Any bank that suffers big withdrawals and has to be taken over by the federal government is obviously in serious trouble.
But it’s far MORE serious when, despite a government takeover, depositors pull even MORE money out of the bank. It sends the message that they trust the government’s management even LESS than the bank’s. Yet, that’s precisely what happened last week in Spain"
Read the full article here, courtesy of Weiss Research (http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/lehman-type-megashock-looming-49669?FIELD9=2) :)
Watch this space now - Just come up on Teletext
Trading in Bankia shares has been suspended - they are looking to the government for more than 15 Billion euro bailout
rate was fallin this mornin,shoot up in favour of the pound/dollar now
So come on, What do y'all think?
Post Office online currently showing 121.10
Buy or not buy?
http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/display/playlistref/250512/clipid/250512_SPAIN_25
So come on, What do y'all think?
Post Office online currently showing 121.10
Buy or not buy?123-00 at torviscas travel today
http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/display/playlistref/250512/clipid/250512_SPAIN_25
123-00 at torviscas travel today
I'll fly over tonight then.. I'm trying to use your collective brains to work out if it's going to go up or down from my position in Cheshire..lol
Its not going to alter over the weekend but probably not go up much on monday if any.
US Dollar/Euro rate now in a bad position.
Was watching RT news with Max Kieser , he knows the score , the euro will go into two tier and then all the focus will be on the Dollar . He reckons when JP Morgan Bank and some other bank that i cant remember get investigated by the powers that be the sheit will hit the fan big time and the dollar will be under pressure as the world bank note and China will come in with its bank note as the world trades in its currency , all just in his opinion as an ex wall st dealer . Dont know if he is mad or what ?
They cant let the Euro come level with Dollar as then the us export suffers to mutch .
Germany is having a booming time already with euro down and getting more exports .
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Harmonicaman
26-05-2012, 21:56
Lloyds of London prepare contingency plan for collapse of Euro...Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9292511/Lloyds-of-London-preparing-for-euro-collapse.html)
US Dollar/Euro rate now in a bad position.
what do you mean in a bad position. it doing good. my parents get pay in dollars so they getting a few cents more then last month. last month they was getting 0.72 cents to the dollar and now getting allmost 0.80. a 8 cents jump. and climbing
They cant let the Euro come level with Dollar as then the us export suffers to mutch .
Germany is having a booming time already with euro down and getting more exports .
Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk 2
it whould be good the euro is the same to a dollar. that great for my parents all ready they getting allmost 0.80 cents to the dollar
The usa would not be able to sell anything to Europe anymore Henry their products would be to expencive.
And Germany would have a lot to sell to the US 25% cheaper .
Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk 2
what do you mean in a bad position. it doing good. my parents get pay in dollars so they getting a few cents more then last month. last month they was getting 0.72 cents to the dollar and now getting allmost 0.80. a 8 cents jump. and climbing
it whould be good the euro is the same to a dollar. that great for my parents all ready they getting allmost 0.80 cents to the dollar
So strange that your parents are paid is dollars (I would assume that it is US dollars and not Hong Kong dollars that you are reffering to) I would think that when you checked the exchange rate it had taken a jump of .08 cents from hen I had looked at the exchange rates.By the way why are your parents being paid in dollars ? where are they ?good evening...
what do you mean in a bad position. it doing good. my parents get pay in dollars so they getting a few cents more then last month. last month they was getting 0.72 cents to the dollar and now getting allmost 0.80. a 8 cents jump. and climbing
it whould be good the euro is the same to a dollar. that great for my parents all ready they getting allmost 0.80 cents to the dollar
So strange that your parents are paid is dollars (I would assume that it is US dollars and not Hong Kong dollars that you are refering to) I would think that when you checked the exchange rate it had taken a jump of .08 cents from when I had looked at the exchange rates.By the way why are your parents being paid in dollars ? where are they ?good evening:spin:
just seen a greek pensioner on tv moanin his pension has dropped from 1885euro to 1250e,no wonder there bust
The big problem is if Greece leaves the Euro and the Euro zone solves its problems the Euro will really appreciate making things very expensive
they are retire and they getting paid on their pension in dollars i live with my parents
they are retire and they getting paid on their pension in dollars i live with my parents
Ok henry I speak English,for the second time what dollars do your parents be paid in ?I respect that you live with your parents but that does not answer my question or is the demise of the euro inevitable.I have no problems with you I hope you can give me an answer,good evening.............
The big problem is if Greece leaves the Euro and the Euro zone solves its problems the Euro will really appreciate making things very expensive
I wouldn't recommend holding your breath waiting for that to happen. They interviewed Angela Merkel's deputy on TV yesterday and the Germans seem to be under the impression that their policy is the correct AND ONLY solution to the Eurozone's problems and we have all the time in the world to wait for it to fix the problem
The IMF's pronouncement yesterday about the Greeks needing to start paying taxes instead of avoiding them at all costs also seems to have totally pi55ed off all the political groups in Greece - pro-austerity and anti-austerity; nice one from them !!
The IMF's pronouncement yesterday about the Greeks needing to start paying taxes instead of avoiding them at all costs also seems to have totally pi55ed off all the political groups in Greece - pro-austerity and anti-austerity; nice one from them !!
True though...
Same with the Spanish. The black economies of the Med simply aren´t conducive to a sound economy and this becomes all too apparent when there is a huge slowdown like now. They are paying the price for decades of neglecting to pay sufficient amounts into their social security and tax.
Latest I read said things were swinging back towards pro austerity in Greece - which is what the markets want to here.
Ok henry I speak English,for the second time what dollars do your parents be paid in ?I respect that you live with your parents but that does not answer my question or is the demise of the euro inevitable.I have no problems with you I hope you can give me an answer,good evening.............
they get paid in u.s.dollars
delderek
30-05-2012, 14:32
Spanish borrowing rates increased today, to levels many financial sites regard as almost unsustainable, without EC intervention.
http://www.marke****ch.com/story/spa...MW_latest_news
For some reason full address has been auto blocked, it should say m a r k e t w a t c h. with no spaces???
Spanish borrowing rates increased today, to levels many financial sites regard as almost unsustainable, without EC intervention.
http://www.marke****ch.com/story/spa...MW_latest_news
For some reason full address has been auto blocked, it should say m a r k e t w a t c h. with no spaces???
What's wrong with T W A T
Bradybunch
30-05-2012, 16:12
nothing there,s just too many running the EU innit bro.
delderek
31-05-2012, 22:21
If you have money on deposit, you should perhaps read this: From New York Times.
While many Spanish consumers may still be trusting the government to protect their money — perhaps not realizing that the country’s Deposit Guarantee Fund has been depleted and now exists mainly in name only — the in-the-know money is heading for the border at an increasingly brisk pace.
Many thanks delderek,I have just recently closed my Santander account in the UK due to poor local service and also watching the latest Spanish money etc news.
Harmonicaman
09-06-2012, 18:58
Spain is requesting help to revitalise banking system... here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18382659)
I think Spain will be cap in hand by Monday!
golf birdie
09-06-2012, 20:27
I think Spain will be cap in hand by Monday!
they are there tonight......
maybe it may put off a few of the people wishing to move here who think Tenerife calles are made of gold........
Looks like Max Kieser (RT News) is right , two tier euro or no euro at all then the dollar will suffer , buy swiss francs if theres no recession in your house .
Harmonicaman
10-06-2012, 09:53
http://i46.servimg.com/u/f46/16/76/96/37/captu292.png (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=677&u=16769637).............................
willowlily
10-06-2012, 15:03
they are there tonight......
maybe it may put off a few of the people wishing to move here who think Tenerife calles are made of gold........
most people realise that every country's economies are suffering. the uk can expect and are already seeing young educated people fromthe p.i.i.g.s countries taking flight with what little money they have left to what they perceive to be be safe havens.
the very wealthy tax eVaders of these same domains saw the writing on the wall first and have already moved their assets leaving these already struggling countries like rats off a sinking ship.
the old rule of economics " IT IS NOT IMPORTANT HOW MUCH WEALTH IS IN AN ECONOMY, IT IS THE SPEED THAT IT CIRCULATES THE PEOPLE THAT KEEPS THE ECONOMY HEALTHY "
well it looks like the bailout failed to convince the markets,lol.you really couldnt make it up.:crazy:
- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -
well it looks like the bailout failed to convince the markets,lol.you really couldnt make it up.:crazy:boom http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18405729
breakin news,lol.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18436076
willowlily
14-06-2012, 07:34
the mighty " SOROS " has given the euro 3 months before collapse, but then he has a reputation as a big time gambler on failing currency. he depends on the premise " there is no smoke without fire " even a crystal ball would give us as much information about the future of the euro.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18438044 just tipped over 7perccent :laugh:whats mrs merkle to do now?
Maybe just have the German euro
willowlily
14-06-2012, 21:04
Maybe just have the German euro
but what would they do with all those deutchmarks they have carefully stored in underground storage " just in case "
slodgedad
14-06-2012, 21:25
Same as they have always done. Try to instil their will on the rest of us lower creatures.
Harmonicaman
14-06-2012, 21:27
Same as they have always done. Try to instil their will on the rest of us lower creatures.
...untermenschen...innit
seanocelt
15-06-2012, 03:19
...untermenschen...innit
S h o w a f f.
If Greece leave the Euro, what happens to any Greek euros you have in your possession when that happens ??
Will there be a period of time before they become worthless or is it just tough luck ??
Anyone know how to identify the Greek euros from the others ??
the greeks have saved our bacon,the euro is now safe:whistle:what we gunna talk about now:dontknow:
the greeks have saved our bacon,the euro is now safe:whistle:what we gunna talk about now:dontknow:
????
They haven't actually formed a government yet !!
They are back in the same place they were in after the last election - waiting to see if any of the big shares can gather enough support from the lesser shares to actually achieve a majority.
The market certainly doesn't seem to think the problem is resolved.
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