View Full Version : Our complex pool has been closed because it is not fenced.
I have just received an email to inform me that the pool in our residential complex has been closed due to not being fenced in. It seems lunacy to me to close down the pool on a residential complex, does this mean that all pools must be closed down on both complexes and private residences if they are not fenced in. What are the implications for owners of Villas with Pools which are rented do they need a private life guard or close down the pool. Why not just put a fence around the coast of the Island to prevent anyone falling into the sea. Pure bureaucratic madness does anyone have the stats on drownings in complexes for the last ten years.
This is interesting.
How do You close an open Pool.
If Security are present to enforce it, an Attendant may be cheaper anyway..??
Would the attendant need to be in attendance 24x 7 as people live on the complex 24x 7, same as hotels etc, total madness, it also occurs to me that if the pool is closed down and drained it must surely pose as much a risk as a full pool.
karinagal
18-08-2011, 19:59
I have just received an email to inform me that the pool in our residential complex has been closed due to not being fenced in. It seems lunacy to me to close down the pool on a residential complex, does this mean that all pools must be closed down on both complexes and private residences if they are not fenced in. What are the implications for owners of Villas with Pools which are rented do they need a private life guard or close down the pool. Why not just put a fence around the coast of the Island to prevent anyone falling into the sea. Pure bureaucratic madness does anyone have the stats on drownings in complexes for the last ten years.
Our community is in the process of putting fences round all the pools in the Pebble Beach complexes. The Aries one has been completed, I believe Scorpio will be done soon. They have also introduced security gates (keypad controlled) so that only those with the access codes can get in to the pool areas...
Security gates seem a good idea, I would be happy if only those who pay their community fees should be given access to the pool area.
judetenerife
18-08-2011, 20:47
on a residential complex pools do not need lifeguard if gated and only the residents have keys. the residents then assume use at yr own risk. holiday complexes must have lifeguard. private villa pools are in essence enclosed by the property boundaries and in effect fenced from public use. holiday renters in private villa pools use at own risk and owners are only obligued to have taken reasonable care of maintenance and depth signage etc.
Surely a gated complex meets the same criteria as the Villa, as the complex is surrounded by a wall and in effect fenced from public use, on our complex there are signs displaying pool rules depth of water etc,.
I have just received an email to inform me that the pool in our residential complex has been closed due to not being fenced in. It seems lunacy to me to close down the pool on a residential complex, does this mean that all pools must be closed down on both complexes and private residences if they are not fenced in. What are the implications for owners of Villas with Pools which are rented do they need a private life guard or close down the pool. Why not just put a fence around the coast of the Island to prevent anyone falling into the sea. Pure bureaucratic madness does anyone have the stats on drownings in complexes for the last ten years.
It sounds crazy Dave but it doesn't surprise me, As you say it would be even more dangerous empty!!!
There was a tragic drowning here a few weeks ago where a young boy of about 6 or 7 yrs of age lost his life in a hotel pool with three or four life guards in attendance. Another thing Al, how can a Health and Safety Inspector walk away from a complex if he believes the situation regarding the pool is dangerous, ie, no life guard and everyone with free access to the pool area. The situation is crazy in the extreme.
Red Devil
18-08-2011, 21:28
There are a few ways in which this law can be complied with and I would have thought that both the Committee and Administrators should have worked with the health & safety inspectors to come to a solution.
Apart from a fence, access gates etc can be installed.
Unless it is just a temporary measure it is not good news.
Your complex committee have had a few years now to realise this law was applicable and it seems odd that this drastic measure has been taken.
I would certainly be demanding a few answers!
I honestly don't see how a fence could possibly work around a pool in a complex , how high would it need to be, what happens if a child climb up on the fence and falls off, if the fence is not high enough to prevent access what's the point of having one.
Red Devil
18-08-2011, 21:47
I honestly don't see how a fence could possibly work around a pool in a complex , how high would it need to be, what happens if a child climb up on the fence and falls off, if the fence is not high enough to prevent access what's the point of having one.
Yes, not everywhere is suitable for fencing, that is why there are various options and as far as I am aware health & safety would go out of their way to work out a solution with your complex Committee - after all they constantly come across pools of various sizes in different situations.
I can only image that either your Committee has buried their heads in the sand over the whole thing over the last few years or they haven't the funds to carry out the necessary work so have eventally been told to close the pool.
I would be on the phone first thing to the complex Administrators get a far clearer picture about the whole saga!!
Also the fence doesnt have to be a ridiculous height, the idea I believe was to prevent a toddler wandering into the pool area, not to stop absolutely anyone accessing it so dont imagine it has to be 6' high or anything
a fence has to be 1.4m minimum height. Private residences and complexes with less than 22 houses are exempt. It has been the law for quite a while although is now being more rigourously enforced as the Cabildo is a tad miffed that they gave a long period of grace yet many communities have made no effort to comply.
I would love to see the risk assessment carried out by the Health and Safety Inspector. I have been in contact with the Administrators re, this problem. Inspector visited the complex yesterday and I was told the committee decided to close the pool.
Added after 8 minutes:
Does anyone really believe that a fence 1.4 metres high will prevent access to a pool, also how can they exempt complexes with less than 22 apts/houses that is still a considerable number of people and if you do the risk assessment you will get a similar result as a bigger complex.
Red Devil
18-08-2011, 22:07
I would love to see the risk assessment carried out by the Health and Safety Inspector. I have been in contact with the Administrators re, this problem. Inspector visited the complex yesterday and I was told the committee decided to close the pool.
Well, only guessing but sounds like the inspector made them close it after not complying?
Lets hope it is only a temporary measure whilst a solution is worked out?
i believe it's meant to keep todlers out. Not adults or drunks!
As I posted earlier a 6 or 7 yr old drowned here recently with 3 or 4 lifeguards in attendance.
Red Devil
18-08-2011, 22:13
As I posted earlier a 6 or 7 yr old drowned here recently with 3 or 4 lifeguards in attendance.
And also presumably with the parents there also, which shows that tragically, accidents still happen.
And also presumably with the parents there also, which shows that tragically, accidents still happen.
Exactly, the pool is in a Hotel with supervision and the accident still occurred. People have been living in this complex for five years without gates or fences around the pool.
Added after 2 minutes:
Just rechecked the details of the tragic accident, the poor child was 5yrs old and there were two fully qualified life guards in attendance.
Wasn't the 5 year old with his/her parents?
Wasn't the 5 year old with his/her parents?
Report in the Paper said he was with his Father at time of accident. The family were on the last day of their holiday when the tragedy happened.
atlantico
18-08-2011, 23:01
a quick question on safety.
1. a pool with SOME kind of fence/barrier to protect the innocent kids, or
2. Nothing
answers on a post card please
anyone saying answer #2 is correct/best - please explain why below.
Quite agree with you Atlantico2 the limit of 22 dwellings i would guess it's the same as most things in Spain - Money Matters
Is there a real difference between 3 families at the pools or 500?
I don't see the difference between 3 familys and 500 familys either, I also don't believe any sane person would deliberatly leave an innocent child in danger.
Imagine having a derrama for 25000 split between 12 dwellings
Imagine having the same derrama split between 120 dwellings
Imagine it preventing the death of one child due to parental neglect whilst having a drink at the local pool bar
Just a thought
junglejim
19-08-2011, 01:18
It cost us in the region of € 15,000 in our complex of 148 apts. to fence in our pool to the satisfaction of authorities a few years ago and this year €20,000 to have our pool renovated to their standard , not to mention extras to ensure the other sanitary issues on water replenishment in a pool- very expensive !
It complies with the local authorities requirements - now all we need is parents to take responsibility for looking after their children whether in a pool or on a beach !
Moki Dog
19-08-2011, 01:31
At least some folks still have a pool at all. The community in which I reside filled-in our pool with dirt and planted a palm tree in it (actually, they planted two, but one died shortly after being planted) instead of bringing the pool up to current standards.
Too bad the monthly community dues weren't reduced after the pool became a planter! But, this is Tenerife after all! :spin:
In the country I'm from, even pools on private single-family properties needs to be fenced in, with a fence high enough and gate lock complex enough to keep small children out.
Still the #1 cause of death for children under the age of 10 is drowning - in their neighbors pool. (N.B. - not in their own pool.)
jogger321
19-08-2011, 09:00
What about that huge swimming pool that is available to everyone (the sea)... what plans are there to fence that off?
Red Devil
19-08-2011, 10:01
Providing a fence, locked gates or whatever is an additional safety measure for when the pool area isn't being used, so if the child was in the pool daytime with lifeguards and parents present a fence wouldnt have made the slightest difference unfortunately in that instance.
I thought a rule was also brought in that a child under the age of 12 couldnt be in a pool area alone but again accident seem to happen when all steps to protect have been taken.
No easy answer except vigilance always.
There is no substitute for direct parental supervision. Would any sane person go to a beach spot the local lifeguard leave their innocent children alone on the beach because there is a lifeguard on duty and **** of up to the pub for a belly full of €1 pints.
**** is not a swear word.
I used to have a timeshare at Island Village and they put up security gates a few years ago just after the law came into being. They didn't need to put fencing all around the pool but there were security gates at every entrance point to the pool which you had to have your room key to access. It obviously doesn't make up for a parents being vigilant but I suppose it stopped children just wandering into the pool area. At the end of the day whether you think its a good idea or a pointless idea, that is the law and you have to either find a way of making it work for your complex or not and then suffer the consequences of not doing so. I hope your complex can find a solution to suit the authorities and the residents.
At least some folks still have a pool at all. The community in which I reside filled-in our pool with dirt and planted a palm tree in it (actually, they planted two, but one died shortly after being planted) instead of bringing the pool up to current standards.
Too bad the monthly community dues weren't reduced after the pool became a planter! But, this is Tenerife after all! :spin:Did you go to the general meeting of your community? If not then you can't complain.
I appreciate that the law is the law but I also believe the law is a stupid law, Why not have a law that bans familys from rooms in hotels or apts, which are above ground level on the off chance that a child might wander on to the balcony and fall off. Why are Villas exempt, surely a child could wander out of a Villa and fall in to a pool while the parents are otherwise occupied. Why is there not a law ensuring that all cars etc, drive a t 5km per hour past residencial complexes with the addition of speed bumps on all roads around the complex on the off chance that a child might wander out of the complex and under the wheels of a car. I could go on and on but am only going around in circles.
Sundowner
19-08-2011, 12:01
There is a lot of information on this subject on the old forum if you care to look :)
I for one applaud the authorities as they are actually checking and doing something about this.
The communtity I live on had our pool fenced in 2 years ago and we all had to pay extra communtity fees to get it done, like it or not. Why shouldnt other communties comply? Just because you donīt agree with the law? that IMHO certainly doenst make a valid reason for not having the work done!:nono:
bonitatime
19-08-2011, 12:22
I have to say that by now most complexes with pools have done something to comply with the law. We fenced and walled in where I live and in the long term it will be cheaper as we now have no lifeguard.
What next... Rubber Pavements, demolish MT Teide in case someone falls, Parachutes on planes,wear hard hats on the beach in case of low flying seagulls? :whistle:;)
They will be banning drinking Alcohol next!!!
I am not suggesting anyone should break the law, I just don't agree with the law. Should there be a law which prohibits parent from strapping their children into an aluminium tube and shooting them into the air up to 40,000 feet at about 500km per hour.
junglejim
19-08-2011, 15:32
I am not suggesting anyone should break the law, I just don't agree with the law. Should there be a law which prohibits parent from strapping their children into an aluminium tube and shooting them into the air up to 40,000 feet at about 500km per hour.
Why not just strap on a condom or have a vasectomy at birth ?.. then problem is solved long term !
bonitatime
19-08-2011, 15:49
I have 2 sets of friends who lost a child in a pool. One theirs and one the child of a neighbour. Both were concerned sensible adults who turned their back for a moment. If you have never been to a childs funeral you shouldn't joke. If you have I am sure you know where I am coming from.
Accidents will always happen but this has always struck me as a sensible law and a very long time was given to implement it.
I think the law is quite reasonable. It's to prevent a safe environment in the area where the children live and play daily - their home.
What you seem to suggest is that no one should be able to let a child out to play - AT THEIR HOME - without constant adult supervision to make sure they don't drown in the pool?
There are usually fences keeping them from running out on the street, why not around the pool so they can play safely within their own complex?
Comparing it to the beach is ridiculous, since you don't send children alone to the beach, while they very well may be out playing without their parents within the complex area.
Margaretta
19-08-2011, 17:22
We have big gates installed to the pool area to which there is ONE key per owned apartment and it is not possible to have a copy (researched all avenues). The residents surrounding the pool have to go out of their front doors and go in through the gates. This is a bit annoying but if it keeps strangers out and children safe then that is a good thing. We are lucky in that the gates are tucked back and don't spoil the attractiveness of the pool.
The only real worry is the single key. One more would have made life much easier.....
These rules have been around for quite a while now but It seems to me that health and safety only did half the job in some cases.
Our complex is touristic and employs a lifeguard between 9am and 6pm so therefore it is not a requirement to have the pool fenced in.
Why is it assumed that a child couldn't fall in the pool out of these hours and drown?
I appreciate that the law is the law but I also believe the law is a stupid law, Why not have a law that bans familys from rooms in hotels or apts, which are above ground level on the off chance that a child might wander on to the balcony and fall off. Why are Villas exempt, surely a child could wander out of a Villa and fall in to a pool while the parents are otherwise occupied. Why is there not a law ensuring that all cars etc, drive a t 5km per hour past residencial complexes with the addition of speed bumps on all roads around the complex on the off chance that a child might wander out of the complex and under the wheels of a car. I could go on and on but am only going around in circles.
Probably best to ban children from our island! Little gits, it's all their fault! :twak:
Who in their right mind would let a very young child out to play unsupervised in any environment, young children need to be supervised at all times, why ban children fron the Island children are not the problem, How often have yoy seen children distressed on a beach having become lost due to parent being distracted for whatever reason. I will come back to the situation regarding Vills, why are they exempt, the Inspector does a risk assessment on an open pool and based on the assessment decides what action needs to be taken. The pool is the Hazard the Risk is the danger associated with the Hazard it does not make any difference if the pool is on a complex or a Villa the risk is the same. The law is a bad law in my opinion and is not being applied evenly. Just as an observation, walking around Las Americas Los Cris, or any of the Tourist areas in Tenerife there are countless Hazards to be seen for both adult and children alike from very low walls with very steep drop to areas with no barriers at all.
Simple answer to your problems...
Your pool has been closed because your Community has elected not to comply with the laws on fencing it in with controlled access, or providing a life-guard during the pool's opening hours (depending on whether your complex is designated as touristic or residential). You are presumably part of that Community and would have been consulted when the decision to close it was made, or the decision to not comply with the law was made. You need to attend your community meetings and voice your opinion. You live in Spain (more specifically the Canaries) where this is the law of the land. There are many other laws here which are different to those in the country you left, in moving here you accepted to comply with local law(s) - simples.
Regarding Villas. These are effectively peoples homes and as such are presumed to be their private property. It is presumed therefore that owners will teach their children about the dangers of pools accordingly - again, simples.
xx
Simple answer to your problems...
Your pool has been closed because your Community has elected not to comply with the laws on fencing it is with controlled access, or providing a life-guard during the pool's opening hours (depending on whether your complex is designated as touristic or residential). You are presumably part of that Community and would have been consulted when the decision to close it was made, or the decision to not comply with the law was made. You need to attend your community meetings and voice your opinion. You live in Spain (more specifically the Canaries) where this is the law of the land. There are many other laws here which are different to those in the country you left, in moving here you accepted to comply with local law(s) - simples.
Regarding Villas. These are effectively peoples homes and as such are presumed to be their private property. It is presumed therefore that owners will teach their children about the dangers of pools accordingly - again, simples.
xx
I was not consulted re, closing the pool got an email telling me pool was closed, the complex is residential and as such the apts, are peoples homes. Is it presumed that owners of Villas are more capable of teaching their children pool safety than people who live in a community. I have not been in a position to attend the meeting for various reasons so could not voice my opinion. As a law abiding person I accept the law as it is, I still think it is a bad law. simples. xx
atlantico
20-08-2011, 14:00
we have glass fencing, which looks good, but a right dinger to keep clean. We installed swipe cards to the gates, which have since been reverted to keys. The minimum height is only 1.4-1.6m I think, so we built ours to 1.8 to be on safe side
so why are there STILL many unsupervised kids without keys playing, running and swimming within the enclosed space ?
Trouble with a lot of community residents, they think that an enclosed complex is a nice safe and secure place for their kids to play, whilst they go to work, booze or stay indoors
Build another pool and show them you're boss
cheers
xx
Dont forget the fence though !
Who in their right mind would let a very young child out to play unsupervised in any environment, young children need to be supervised at all times.
Please elaborate what you mean with "very young", and "any environment".
A 5-year old in his own bedroom?
A 7-year old in his parents garden?
Do you have kids, at all, yourself?
Were YOUR parents with you at all times, supervising, 24/7/365 from birth until you were 15 years old?
I don't feel the need to elaborate, I don't agree with the law as it stands, I also notice it does not take much for some people to get snidey on here, and yes I have children although they are grown men now.
KirstyJay
20-08-2011, 18:24
I don't feel the need to elaborate, I don't agree with the law as it stands, I also notice it does not take much for some people to get snidey on here, and yes I have children although they are grown men now.Being someone that has read this thread from an unbiased standpoint and have no particular opinions on the matter either way... I do not have a pool and do not live on a community... I think you are being a little touchy in this comment.
All I have read is that you are obviously put out about the fact your pool is closed and don't agree with the law.
People have pointed out to you that the law is the law whether you like it or not and have offered advice how you can approach your community.
I cannot see anywhere where snidey comments have been made. If you are reading advice and replies that you'd rather not hear, then those are not snidey replies... that's just an unfortunate result of posting a topic on an open forum.
The advice and replies on this thread so far have been very useful and informative to your situation. Whether you agree with the law or not, it is not going to help your situation to ignore it. In order to rectify your problem, you really need to take previous advice and contact your committee, because otherwise this thread is just a back and forth about whether you agree with the laws or not - and that will not change you pool's closure. :)
As a Person who has experience of Health and Safety Laws, risk.water.concrete and Kida of whatever age I would say close the Lot.
A Risk Assessment should consider ALL possible Dangers i/e slipping falling etc and ban any running too
I would be inclined to insist its no more dangeroud than any other
Whatever is decided Fate will be an influence too.
Legally a Fence denotes boundaries in England.
Anyone scaling the Fence would do it therefore at their own risk,
until the E.U. put their Oar in.
I suggest DDoyle asks WHY the Law wasnt complied with, causing an enforced closure until
Legislation is eventually complied with...
I have also worked in Health and Safety and in Tenerife dealing with hotel complexes. There is a Real Decreto with Health and Safety laws for pools in the Canaries, you can find it here.....
http://www.gobcan.es/boc/2005/236/004.html
As a Person who has experience of Health and Safety Laws, risk.water.concrete and Kida of whatever age I would say close the Lot.
A Risk Assessment should consider ALL possible Dangers i/e slipping falling etc and ban any running too
I would be inclined to insist its no more dangeroud than any other
Whatever is decided Fate will be an influence too.
Legally a Fence denotes boundaries in England.
Anyone scaling the Fence would do it therefore at their own risk,
until the E.U. put their Oar in.
I suggest DDoyle asks WHY the Law wasnt complied with, causing an enforced closure until
Legislation is complied with...
I have been involved in H&S Management for over 15 yrs so I know a little bit about it, I have not been able to attend community meeting for various reasons and have a lot of questions to ask when I eventually get to one. I dont have a problem with the pool being closed per se, I dont agree with the Law, and as I have said before I accept the law as I am a law abiding person, but no one can tell me that a pool in a complex is any more hazardous than a pool in a Villa. I believe the contrary. With regard to me being a little touchy I disagree as a rule I am a very laid back person and stand by my comment re, snidey posts. I think we should wrap it up here and agree to disagree otherwise we can go round in circles on this subject for ever.
I don't feel the need to elaborate, I don't agree with the law as it stands, I also notice it does not take much for some people to get snidey on here, and yes I have children although they are grown men now.
If your comment about snidey posts was aimed at me, I was offended by your previous comment and wanted you to clarify what you really meant. There is a huge difference in age where a child can be left playing without constant adult supervision, depending on the environment. I one environment it may be 4, in another 7, or 12, or even 15.
Your comment stated there is no environment whatsoever where a child can be left without adult supervision at any time, and that any parent doing so at any time in any environment is irresponsible. That is a very a sweeping statement, and untrue.
If your comment about snidey posts was aimed at me, I was offended by your previous comment and wanted you to clarify what you really meant. There is a huge difference in age where a child can be left playing without constant adult supervision, depending on the environment. I one environment it may be 4, in another 7, or 12, or even 15.
Your comment stated there is no environment whatsoever where a child can be left without adult supervision at any time, and that any parent doing so at any time in any environment is irresponsible. That is a very a sweeping statement, and untrue.
Hi Pooh,
My comment re, snidey post was not directed at you, and I certainly never intended to offend anyone. From personal experienceas a parent I would not leave a 4yr old alone anywhere to play without constant checking constantly, with regard to older children, in my original post I mentioned a child drowning with the Parent and two life guards in attendance the child was 5yrs old parental control and vigilance are very important in my opinion where children are concrened. My children are now adults but you still worry about them in our modern society. Just to give you an example, my youngest son was attacked by two thugs a couple of weeks ago on his way home from a night out with some friends, he was not badly injured thank God but who knows what may happen next time. Finally Pooh very sorry if I offended you it was not intentional.
tonythorne
21-08-2011, 16:03
We had to have our communal pool fenced in 2 years ago and it was a good idea... it keeps out all the non-resident interlopers now.
Tony... Playa de la Arena
delderek
21-08-2011, 19:04
Australia have had a similar law for 10 years, even your own private pool in your home has to be fenced, silly yes, but the law yes.
I think the point has been made, and yes, the Law may be dodgy, but no more than the failure to act on it
quite some time previously.
What gets My Goat is the Enforcement of the Law and the Sentencing and do-gooders input.
Following the Riots Someone or two are locking the Stable Doors.......again..
bonitatime
21-08-2011, 20:31
We were inspecred 2 years ago so you were lucky it has taken this lo g to catch up with your community.
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