PDA

View Full Version : What are the pros & cons of the Spanish versus British education systems in Tenerife?



sunseeker
25-09-2011, 16:12
my kids are in spanish school here in tenerife, but i have friends that have their kids in provate british schools.

i have always found the spanish schools to be very good. theyre free, conventiently located near my house and they put on early morning dropoff and the school dinners and school bus services are great.

my mates think the british schools fit their lives because they finish a little later so they can work a full day and not have to worry about someone picking them up.

i think that the kids do not get a good grasp of spanish in the british schools, but i suppose you could say the same for my kids in spanish school.

what are your opinions of the pros and cons of each?

ooh. look at that there are links in my post automatically. that's a good addition to the forum!

Tinkabel
25-09-2011, 16:33
Horses for causes i say, My daughter is also in the Spanish School system and i have to say i have nothing but praise for the schools she has been in. I feel she is getting an excellent standard of education and because she goes to a school local to us she has been able to make friends locally and therefore is able to play after school or on weekends without the need for us to drive her everywhere. We're not in a financial position to pay for a private education so it was never really a matter of which should we choose, I do know of people equally happy with their choice of Private schooling be it British or Spanish and i think as long as the kids are happy in school and the parents are happy with the standards of education they're receiving thats all that matters.

sunseeker
25-09-2011, 16:41
have you ever thought about getting extra english classes for your kids? i know they teach it in school, but only to spanish kids who are at a lot lower level. my kids are fluent english speakers, but there spelling is worse than mine! lol

Jackie
25-09-2011, 17:01
What you have to remember out here is that Private British Schools are not on par with Private Schools in the UK. They are a business before they are a school. If I had young kids here I would definately put them through the Spanish system with extra English tuition outside of school

Tinkabel
25-09-2011, 17:04
have you ever thought about getting extra english classes for your kids? i know they teach it in school, but only to spanish kids who are at a lot lower level. my kids are fluent english speakers, but there spelling is worse than mine! lol

My daughter was 5.5 years old when we arrived so could read and write easily in English, At first when she began to learn Spanish her English spelling deteriorated but over the years she has improved vastly. She loves to read in both English and Spanish so i suppose this helps too. She does still make mistakes in English spelling for which i correct her but i do think over time this has become less of a problem.

YOUNG GOLFER
25-09-2011, 22:40
For me and the wife we always wanted our kiddies to go state school...just thought if you are to make a life out here then Spanish school is a must.

Very happy with everything ......i feel they are nice and safe for a start even taking the kids to school ............. in the UK you get a Loolie Pop lady here we get 2 Police Officers...... we want them growning up with local children and kids from other parts of the world.

Marks out of 10 i would give 9 the reason being i think 12 weeks off in the Summer is way too much.....

TIS
25-09-2011, 23:09
have you ever thought about getting extra english classes for your kids? i know they teach it in school, but only to spanish kids who are at a lot lower level. my kids are fluent english speakers, but there spelling is worse than mine! lol

Surely most English parents can provide their kids with extra tuition in most subjects in English, outside school - at least for the first 5 years or so. Therefore putting your kids thorugh the Spanish system to help integrate them properly must be the best option, unless of course your municipality has only bad schools. Then it's really tough, do you move, to be entitled to send your kids to another school, do you pay for private schooling. And of course, not everyone has this as a viable option as costs are high, although some have been reduced this year!

lozzie1821
25-09-2011, 23:29
I came here when i was 6 & due to my parents not knowing how Tenerife would plan out for them they played it safe and entered me into wingate where i stayed all my life...
Funnily enough we moved to tenerife when i had just turned 5 and by the time i stsstarted late sept of the following year i was speaking near enough perfect spanish (as it stands what i actually learnt was canarian through the kids i played with out of school)..
The only english friends i had where the people i went to school with.

The benefit of staying in the uk educational system means that IF they decide to go to university their qualifications WILL be recognised....
My cousin who went to luther king all her life (a brilliant school) found going back to the uk for college all her brilliant marks actually didnt mean squat in the uk as they were not recognised and thats exactly what will happen when they leave local spanish schools...

I have 2 children 2 n half and 14 months - they are both in a spanish nursery & will be put forward to the local spanish school... I plan to remove them from that school once they hit the yr 7 class so they can carry on their qualifications in a british recognised system...

Just because you choose to live in a foreign country does not mean you have to put your children in the foreign schools - as ive seen not all children fit in well to the change and grades go from great to horrendous...
Do what you feel is best for the child in the long term not what you think they will suit now...

timmylish
26-09-2011, 15:34
An excellent post by Lozzie since she has been thru' the system. What I found really interesting is the remarks concerning Luther King and the lack of recognition in the UK towards that school. Seems to me a waste of money putting kids in there and would be just as well in the State system which does seem to be good but very dependent on the particular school chosen. Some of the schools seem to lag behind others!

KirstyJay
26-09-2011, 15:43
The benefit of staying in the uk educational system means that IF they decide to go to university their qualifications WILL be recognised....
My cousin who went to luther king all her life (a brilliant school) found going back to the uk for college all her brilliant marks actually didnt mean squat in the uk as they were not recognised and thats exactly what will happen when they leave local spanish schools...

This is not correct. The Bachillerato is recognised in the UK system. A friend of mine's daughter has just started at York University (one of the top red-brick establishments in the UK) straight out of the Spanish system with Bachillerato.

The only difference is, is that if you do not show enough knowledge of English grammar on your application and interview, you may be asked to complete the IELTS certificate first to prove that your English is good enough to study in England.

There are many foreign students that studying the UK universities each year and they don't go to school in England prior to that ;)

Incidentally, my mum was a Professor at a UK university up until last year and worked at that university for over 25 years :)


What I found really interesting is the remarks concerning Luther King and the lack of recognition in the UK towards that school. Seems to me a waste of money putting kids in there and would be just as well in the State system which does seem to be good but very dependent on the particular school chosen.But that information is not correct, so it would be unwise for a person to base their decision on it. :)

Oberon
04-10-2011, 14:25
If you send your child(ren) to the local state school they will have some exceptionally good teachers .... if they are lucky.
There are also some very bad ones, which could lose them a year. The south of Tenerife has an exceptionally high percentage of reserve teachers, serving time, covering and waiting for a position somewhere else.
With the state of government finances at the moment it will not surprise anyone to know that they are all (sic) short-staffed at the moment with teachers doubling up and covering subjects other than their own.

The Luther King school is a massive business and is not expensive. It is subsidized by the government (concertado). It functions effectively within the laws as a state school. (Conditions of the subsidies)

Children with Spanish qualifications can go to British Universities and vice versa ...... so whether your children study the British or the Spanish curriculum is fairly immaterial, but I would think very carefully about where they do it.
A truism concerning education is that it is not which books you study that matters, it is who you study them with.

If I were to send my children to a Spanish school studying the Spanish curriculum I would send them to The Costa Adeje (http://www.colegiocostaadeje.com/) school. And I would pay.

bonitatime
04-10-2011, 16:41
Lozzie I am not sure about your cousin but my son got into Durham university with his Spanish qualifications
The last school on this earth I would send my children to is Costa Adeje. I have and regret it every day. Not a single child in my sons class came out at 18 speaking German unless they had a German speaking parent. 3 of them failed PAU as the teachers were confused and taught the wrong assigments. For anyone thinking about the school please ask around before you send your child there.

Added after 1 28 minutes:

What intrigues me when schools come up is no one ever mentions Echeyde. They have a great comunity ethic, are reasonably priced and go all day.

MrsTT
04-10-2011, 18:28
As an experienced ex Headteacher from the UK, can I repeat what I have said many times before? Schools and teachers do not suit everyone and what is an excellent school for one family may be hell on earth for another. It may be the same school,with the same teachers but a different experience for the child and the parents. Please visit any school you are considering sending your child to, ask around and decide if your child will fit into the system on offer. For example, if your child is a non conformist then do not choose a school which insists rigidly on rules and regulations! If your child likes to think for itself and discover things, then don´t choose a school which engages in rote learning and a repetitious curriculum.
Not always easy when you have to juggle things like transport, cost and other family ties, but only you know your child.

Oberon
05-10-2011, 13:02
The last school on this earth I would send my children to is Costa Adeje. I have and regret it every day. Not a single child in my sons class came out at 18 speaking German unless they had a German speaking parent.Why should they? it isn't a German school, it's a Spanish - school. They study the Spanish curriculum ??
I got O level French at school and I can't speak French.

3 of them failed PAU 3 out of the whole class (your sons class!!) failed the University entrance exam (PAU)? !!!!!!! :spin:
Doesn't sound bad to me, compare that to either of the Adeje institutos.

Do you actually have any legitimate reasons for hating this school?

bonitatime
05-10-2011, 18:11
Why should they? it isn't a German school, it's a Spanish - school. They study the Spanish curriculum ??
I got O level French at school and I can't speak French.
When my son started at 3 years old it was called Colegio von Humbolt so there was a strong expected an tie in. The pre school was all German we paid a 300,000 peseta deposit which we didn't get back for 15 years.


3 out of the whole class (your sons class!!) failed the University entrance exam (PAU)? !!!!!!!
Doesn't sound bad to me, compare that to either of the Adeje institutos.

Picking and choosing which bits to quote isn't very profound. If you read the whole sentence then you would know the teachers taught the wrong assignments.


Do you actually have any legitimate reasons for hating this school?
Do you have any reason to attack me or is just your opinion valid.

Is when they lost my friend's 10 year old justification and finally the police had to find him some distance away.
Is when they lost a pre-school child on excursion a reason.

Oberon
05-10-2011, 19:24
I'm not attacking you, it just seems to me that they get pretty good results and I can't see what your gripe is ...... a child runs away ....... 3 kids from one class failed to get into university .......

.
Is this the same son who is now studying at Durham University?
When my son started at 3 years old

slodgedad
05-10-2011, 21:25
In hindsight I wish I'd sent my daughter to a Canarian school.

We arrived here in 1994 when Charlotte was 3, so enrolled her in Wingate as we were not sure how long we would be staying (English curriculum, and easier for her if we returned)

By the time we absolutely decided to stay she was doing so well that we left her there.

Now she is 'Spanish' (20 years old) she has absolutely no intentions to return to the UK even if we do.

I sometimes think, in retrospect, that some of the difficulties she has had making friends with locals would have been so much easier if she had been 'one of them'.

She has an 'A' level in Maths and Spanish so the educational side was fine, it's the social side I regret for her.

She's fine with it. This is just a dad's opinion.

Oberon
06-10-2011, 10:26
I sometimes think, in retrospect, that some of the difficulties she has had making friends with locals would have been so much easier if she had been 'one of them'.
Yes, this is the best reason for putting your kids into a Spanish speaking school.

But if I were looking for a school for my kids and I had any money at all .... then I would put them into either the Costa Adeje (Spanish speaking, Spanish syllabus) or The Wingate School (English speaking, English syllabus).

Especially now - SEE this thread (http://www.tenerifeforum.org/tenerife-forum/showthread.php?9849-Instituto-%28senior-school%29-in-Guaza-closed-until-futher-notice)

primrose
06-10-2011, 11:03
If you put your child into a Spanish speaking school for all their school life why do parents choose to send them to a British University, are the Spanish Universities not as good as the English ones.

Tinkabel
06-10-2011, 12:38
Yes, this is the best reason for putting your kids into a Spanish speaking school.

But if I were looking for a school for my kids and I had any money at all .... then I would put them into either the Costa Adeje (Spanish speaking, Spanish syllabus) or The Wingate School (English speaking, English syllabus).

Especially now - SEE this thread (http://www.tenerifeforum.org/tenerife-forum/showthread.php?9849-Instituto-%28senior-school%29-in-Guaza-closed-until-futher-notice)

And what if you weren't in a position to pay for private schooling??

bonitatime
06-10-2011, 14:32
If you put your child into a Spanish speaking school for all their school life why do parents choose to send them to a British University, are the Spanish Universities not as good as the English ones.

Not sure where sending them comes in to it. My eldest chose to go to the UK and my youngest has just started in the Spanish system.


And what if you weren't in a position to pay for private schooling??

I would ask around locally and try to put my children in the best school available.
Los Cris high school gets some of the highest marks in the Spanish system year after year.

Oberon
06-10-2011, 14:44
If you put your child into a Spanish speaking school for all their school life why do parents choose to send them to a British University, are the Spanish Universities not as good as the English ones.I think twenty year olds can decide what and where they want to study.

But if Bonitatime's son has been here since he was 3 - he won't be liking those winters in Durham.

Added after 2 minutes:


And what if you weren't in a position to pay for private schooling??I would probably try to help them as much as possible, plenty of time ... they'd be home by 2pm.

casabonny
06-10-2011, 15:24
Yes, this is the best reason for putting your kids into a Spanish speaking school.

But if I were looking for a school for my kids and I had any money at all .... then I would put them into either the Costa Adeje (Spanish speaking, Spanish syllabus) or The Wingate School (English speaking, English syllabus).

Especially now - SEE this thread (http://www.tenerifeforum.org/tenerife-forum/showthread.php?9849-Instituto-%28senior-school%29-in-Guaza-closed-until-futher-notice)
Bonitatime and I will never agree on Costa Adeje as my daughter went there and had good teachers, excellent backup from the head and when need by any child a full time physocolgist.all the children in her year passed the PAU with flying colours and most went on to Universities all over the world and in varying professions.I for one recommend this school and know of many parents who are too extremely pleased ( no place is perfect ) and some are struggling to pay but will pay this first and let other things go as its so important.
Wingate , well for me its just a waste of space, time and I speak from personal experience as we made the mistake of sending her there for a short time where she hated it, the level of teaching was appauling and there was little or no backup if a problem arose.

I do however have friends who gave children there now and are happy with the education EXCEPT that the levels of Spanish taught and therefore spoken is not what one is led to beleive would be the case when or before enrolling.

My daugter went to Costa Adeje from the age of 9 until she finished so not just a few terms .I cannot comment on the Kidnergarden other than to say that our accountant and an estate agent friend are/ have sent thier children/ grandchildren there and are pleased.
Each to his own and whats right for one may not be right for the next one.

Tinkabel
06-10-2011, 19:13
Not sure where sending them comes in to it. My eldest chose to go to the UK and my youngest has just started in the Spanish system.



I would ask around locally and try to put my children in the best school available.
Los Cris high school gets some of the highest marks in the Spanish system year after year.

It's not just the results for me, my daughter is very bright but extremely shy, the classes at Los Cris are far too big IMO, In the classes my friends children are in there are just short of 30 kids, My daughter would hate this and feel very uncomfortable, Smaller classes for us are the way forward, she finds it easier to mix and isn't allowed to hide at the back of the classroom without joining in.


I think twenty year olds can decide what and where they want to study.

But if Bonitatime's son has been here since he was 3 - he won't be liking those winters in Durham.

Added after 2 minutes:

I would probably try to help them as much as possible, plenty of time ... they'd be home by 2pm.

I quite agree, from arriving here we take as much time as possible to help with school work and also improve her English spelling, it not only benefits our daughter but us too. Unfortunately at 2pm she's just starting school.

bonitatime
07-10-2011, 13:19
Do I gather your child is in Guaza. This must be a worrying time.
Have you looked at Buzanada. This is supposed to be smaller and one of my daughters friends did Bachiller there and was happy.
The classes right now are mostly bigger as the schools try to educate with the minimum teachers.

Oberon
07-10-2011, 14:44
Bonitatime and I will never agree on Costa Adeje
Yes that is truly amazing – every child in your daughter's year passed the University entrance exam (PAU).:c2::c2:

I was very surprised by the vehemence of Bonitatime’s comments -


The last school on this earth I would send my children to is Costa Adeje. I have and regret it every day.She regrets it everyday ... and yet sent her children there for 15 years! From what I can read between the lines, both children are now at university.

“The last school on earth ...... regret it everyday” - these are outrageous comments. But when I asked for some clarification or some justification for this dire warning she is unable to come up with more than the fact that the children don’t speak German?? ... notice that this is not “failed their German exams” .... we are talking about a Spanish` School here. Oh! And a ten year old ran away.

But it was when she accused me of attacking her (?) and started to ignore my questions that I realized the sort of poster Bonitatime is. Forums usually have people who make outrageous inflammatory comments who then get upset because somebody wants to know why.
I realized that Bonitatime was accusing me of attacking her ..... because that is probably what usually happens to her.

But then, Casabonny, you do exactly the same with the Wingate School.

Wingate , well for me its just a waste of space (and) time Again this is a very strong condemnation, and with no real substance.

A waste of time and space? There must be about 500 families making use of this waste of time.
I think it is really really important for all of us in the south of this island, whatever sector we are in, that we have this availability. It would be good to have a German school too (German syllabus) and a Russian one, even an American one.
But somewhere to study the British curriculum here .... we need that.

It is essential that we have the choice – but even if you choose the Spanish education system, our society here needs the Wingate School. Think about it.

Ok your daughter hated it; seems like quite a cheerful place to me. Why don’t you just say “it didn’t work for us”?

Not sure what you mean by “back up” but nearly all Spanish´ Schools have resident psychologists. I think it is a requirement in the state schools. I’m not sure about Britain now, but in my day it was unheard of.

And like Bonitatime with the German – you say that the children don’t speak Spanish...
It’s a British´ school, they speak English there and everybody gets A’s in their Spanish exams. Most of the children speak Spanish pretty well, unless they are isolated in some ghetto outside school time.

Bilingual schools don’t exist, whatever their claim is. The practicality of teaching a curriculum in two languages just isn’t realistic and it doesn’t work .... not with children.
The Luther King claims to be a bilingual school, the Wingate does not.

I stand by my assertion that if I were looking for a school for my children in the south of Tenerife, and I if had any money at all .... for Spanish it would be Costa Adeje and for English it would be the Wingate school.

And may we long have the choice.

bonitatime
07-10-2011, 16:00
I was very surprised by the vehemence of Bonitatime’s comments -
She regrets it everyday ... and yet sent her children there for 15 years! From what I can read between the lines, both children are now at university.
One of my children ws there 15 years because he chose to be. The other insisted to leave at a very young age.


“The last school on earth ...... regret it everyday” - these are outrageous comments. But when I asked for some clarification or some justification for this dire warning she is unable to come up with more than the fact that the children don’t speak German?? ... notice that this is not “failed their German exams” .... we are talking about a Spanish` School here. Oh! And a ten year old ran away.
Why is it outrageuos. This is my opinion, you don't like my opinion thats fine but that doesn't make it outrageous.
Outrageous - Meaning http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/outrageous
[adj] greatly exceeding bounds of reason or moderation; "exorbitant rent"; "extortionate prices"; "spends an outrageous amount on entertainment"; "usorious interest rate"; "unconscionable spending"
[adj] grossly offensive to decency or morality; causing horror; "subjected to outrageous cruelty"; "a hideous pattern of injustice"; "horrific conditions in the mining industry"

I think you exaggerated.




But it was when she accused me of attacking her (?) and started to ignore my questions that I realized the sort of poster Bonitatime is. Forums usually have people who make outrageous inflammatory comments who then get upset because somebody wants to know why.
I realized that Bonitatime was accusing me of attacking her ..... because that is probably what usually happens to her.
Which questions are these as I have looked and don't see them.
This comment is against the terms and condition as we are not supposed to attact each other personally. I haven't been attacked elsewhere but perhaps that says something about you.


But then, Casabonny, you do exactly the same with the Wingate School.
Again this is a very strong condemnation, and with no real substance.
Oh Casa Bonny isn't allowed opinions either. This is forum where we write what we think. We have opinions and write them.


A waste of time and space? There must be about 500 families making use of this waste of time.
I think it is really really important for all of us in the south of this island, whatever sector we are in, that we have this availability. It would be good to have a German school too (German syllabus) and a Russian one, even an American one.
But somewhere to study the British curriculum here .... we need that.

It is essential that we have the choice – but even if you choose the Spanish education system, our society here needs the Wingate School. Think about it.
This is your opionion and I accept this. I don't need to get insulting or personal.

Ok your daughter hated it; seems like quite a cheerful place to me. Why don’t you just say “it didn’t work for us”?


Not sure what you mean by “back up” but nearly all Spanish´ Schools have resident psychologists. I think it is a requirement in the state schools. I’m not sure about Britain now, but in my day it was unheard of.
As you say as far as I know it is now a requirement in schools here.


And like Bonitatime with the German – you say that the children don’t speak Spanish...
It’s a British´ school, they speak English there and everybody gets A’s in their Spanish exams. Most of the children speak Spanish pretty well, unless they are isolated in some ghetto outside school time.
Not sure how long you have been here but again I repeat the schhol was called Colegio Von Humbolt when my children started. We were promised they would speak German. Which wasn't fulfilled.
Lots of children here don't really speak Spanish depends very much where they live.


Bilingual schools don’t exist, whatever their claim is. The practicality of teaching a curriculum in two languages just isn’t realistic and it doesn’t work .... not with children.
The Luther King claims to be a bilingual school,
Not sure how you asess this as most of the Spanish children I know who go to Luther King speak reasonable English.


I stand by my assertion that if I were looking for a school for my children in the south of Tenerife, and I if had any money at all .... for Spanish it would be Costa Adeje and for English it would be the Wingate school.

And may we long have the choice.
Again this is your opinion and mine is I wouldn't send a child there.

Ian55
07-10-2011, 16:02
This thread is a debate on the 'pro's and con's of whether its better in a Spanish school or a English school, not for personal attacks on each other, please keep to the topic :)


Thanks

Oberon
07-10-2011, 18:32
This thread is a debate on the 'pro's and con's of whether its better in a Spanish school or a English school, not for personal attacks on each other, please keep to the topic :)I have not made any "personal attacks".
I have only questioned a couple of unsubstantiated irrational statements and tried to draw attention to a couple of contradictions. (All to do with Spanish schools, British schools and universities.)

It is actually a very important (and relevant) point that a bilingual school is virtually impossible in reality. A fact that was acknowledged by the Von Humbolt school many years ago and that the Luther King will turn a blind eye to in the interests of marketing.

And neither have I insulted anyone.

Bekki
07-10-2011, 18:49
Hello everyone! This is something that I have spent the last six months thinking about! My son is 5 and we moved here a few months ago and we were faced with the decision of English school vs Spanish school. We ended up sending him to Luther king and I feel that we have made the absolute correct decision. We went to look around wingate and weren't impressed but that's just us, everyone is different and what's right for one isn't necessarily right for another. With regards to Luther king being bi lingual the way it works for my sons class is that they have 2 teachers and half the day in English and half the day in Spanish. Obviously he's fluent in English and went to school speaking a little Spanish his colours numbers my name is etc and in the 6 weeks he's been there he's come on brilliantly in Spanish but also the standard of his English work. In our case Luther was the better choice but that's not the case for everyone. The teachers said when we met them that this first year would be hard on him as he needs to catch up to where all the others are up to in their Spanish reading and writing and they are doing everything they can to help him and I just can't fault the school at all. Homework can take us longer than i imagine it takes the spanish kids but its not for long (i hope) I just feel that coming here to live it's important that children grow up to speak the language and mix with other Canarian children. That way we can work on any English problems at home and he can be fluent in both languages which was always an advantage for me being taught Spanish from when I started speaking.

lozzie1821
07-10-2011, 20:13
Well im going by what happend to my cousin who it happend to only last year.. She was in Luther King her whole life and got good grades when she left but they were not recognised in the college she went to in Liverpool....

Added after 13 minutes:

At the end of the day we can only choose the school we feel is best for our children what we need to remember is:
IF I CHILD WANTS TO LEARN THEY WILL REGARDLESS OF WHAT SCHOOL THEY IN.

i went to wingate my whole school life and up until senior school my grades were great, few bumps along the way but what child doesnt get the " could try harder" speech at some point...
when i got into senior school i can know look back and see what a waste of my parents money it was not through fault of the school - but my own! Getting into the wrong crowds in and out of school led to my grades dropping, personal problems at home made problems etc etc and when i left funnily enough i got the greatest grades for the subjects i found easy or actually bothered to listen and learn about..

Wingate over the years has had pos and neg things about them and whilst at the school i could agree with the negs BUT looking back i can see for wingate the pros do out weigh the cons for sure...
When i left wingate and went to britannia to do a levels (the school id been begging my mum n dad to send me to for years) i passed everything i took & grades where good too like i said before... If a child wants to learn they will... it doesnt matter what school they are in..

My children are in a spanish nursery and they will be going to a spanish school once they hit senior schools funnily enough i will be considering a move to wingate for them to give them that extra push and personally i want them to have grades i know will be recognised where ever they go in....

Jackie
07-10-2011, 22:30
If a child wants to learn they will... it doesnt matter what school they are in..



I always used to think that Lozzie, until my son went to Wingate for his last year. Yes ok not brilliant timing on our part moving just before his final year of school but that was something that was out of our control when it happened. Prior to moving here my son was and A* student in most of his subject in the UK, after only six or seven weeks at Wingate and our first parents meeting we were told that his school in England had 'dressed up' his grades. Why they would do that is beyond me, he has always had very good grades even from Primary/Junior School. He was lucky enough to be one of these kids that just soaked up what he was taught without any real bother.
In my personal opinion Wingate were covering their arses because they knew after just a few weeks that they could not keep him at the level he was when he first went there because many of the teachers were not qualified to do so. We were told by one particular teacher there that day that he was not a teacher of the subject he was actually 'teaching' but was being taught himself by the 'real' teacher prior to lessons. He also stated that the teacher my son had for this particular subject in the UK must have been excellent at his job due to the fact that my son knew more about the subject than he did, and they were the teachers exact words to us. I could give examples of many things still going on there and nothing will change because as I have said previously Wingate is NOT a private English school per Se, it is a business with some staff who are not qualified to teach, especially at GCSE level

lozzie1821
07-10-2011, 22:51
I always used to think that Lozzie, until my son went to Wingate for his last year. Yes ok not brilliant timing on our part moving just before his final year of school but that was something that was out of our control when it happened. Prior to moving here my son was and A* student in most of his subject in the UK, after only six or seven weeks at Wingate and our first parents meeting we were told that his school in England had 'dressed up' his grades. Why they would do that is beyond me, he has always had very good grades even from Primary/Junior School. He was lucky enough to be one of these kids that just soaked up what he was taught without any real bother.
In my personal opinion Wingate were covering their arses because they knew after just a few weeks that they could not keep him at the level he was when he first went there because many of the teachers were not qualified to do so. We were told by one particular teacher there that day that he was not a teacher of the subject he was actually 'teaching' but was being taught himself by the 'real' teacher prior to lessons. He also stated that the teacher my son had for this particular subject in the UK must have been excellent at his job due to the fact that my son knew more about the subject than he did, and they were the teachers exact words to us. I could give examples of many things still going on there and nothing will change because as I have said previously Wingate is NOT a private English school per Se, it is a business with some staff who are not qualified to teach, especially at GCSE level

I found that too some teachers taught subjects that they probs werent qualified in BUT my dad has always been about education & i know if my dad doubted wingate in any way at all he would never have put me in there... why would he have?? years and years of expensive schooling when he could have done what most people do and shove me in spanish school...

Like most schools many people can find pros and cons about a school that others may disagree with but its down to the individual and how the school/teachers work for them in the long run...

Bekki
07-10-2011, 23:17
I don't think any parents "shove" their child into a school it's something that people think long and hard about.

MrsTT
08-10-2011, 09:43
Jackie says that 'we were told that his school in England had 'dressed up' his grades. Why they would do that is beyond me,'

The pressures on schools to make their students appear to fit into the required standards for the league table is one of the things that made me leave teaching in the UK. I was an experienced headteacher in the Primary system but the people setting the standards seemed to be bent on treating the system as a business and turning out robotic 'perfect' children. I was constantly being pressurised to teach to the test and make sure my children´s scores were good, because they wanted everyone to be 'above -average'. There is an oxymoron if ever there was one, as average is the mean of the group of children you are teaching, so in any group you must have a range, as everyone will never be equal in all things.
IMO the scores became more important than the process of teaching and the teachers were turned into givers of specified facts instead of educators leading children into learning!

Jackie
08-10-2011, 09:56
Exactly Bekki, no one 'shoves' their kids into a school. As I said my son really had no choice but to go to an English School due to him being in his final year, and after several meetings with Britannia and several with Wingate I thought Wingate was the better option as they promised me so much regarding my sons last year. Don't get me wrong, he didn't get bad grades in his final exams but they were not on par with what he was getting in the UK. Had I known the real situation at Wingate regarding unqualified teachers at GCSE level, and not the one that was described to me by the head I would have probably left my son in the UK for his final year and let him stay with family. Lozzie you say if your dad had doubted Wingate he would have took you out but you say you was there your whole school life, who really knows then what you would have achieved at a different school. I know a lot of people that are happy with it, people with children like yourself who have known nothing different. Ask people who's children had not been there all their school life and who have another school (more so Senior) to compare it to and I think you will get a different view.

Sorry Mrs TT just seen your post. This may be the case in some situations when taking tests/exams but surely this would not happen throughout a childs entire schooling, it would not be possible for every child to learn at the same level, whether they were being taught to the test or not. So what you are saying is that exams boards are falsley marking papers in the UK to make the child look better than they are, because in an exam situation I have known the brightest of kids in the class absolutely fall to pieces and get results that do not reflect on the child at all just due to nerves etc. I can understand what you are saying in some ways but if a child is getting above average grades/marks for their whole schooling is it not possible that particular child is actually above average?

MrsTT
08-10-2011, 10:20
So many of the grades in the system are based on course work and teacher assessment, and final exams are no longer the final test they once were. I am not accusing anyone of falsely marking anything, but marks given depend on the criteria that the child is being assessed by. The criteria is decided by the exam boards, the schools teach to the criteria. The pass mark and the scores required for each grade can fluctuate year by year.

I was only answering your query ' why would they'? If you follow the educational press and have been as closely involved in education as I have for over 40 years now, you would realise that for many schools and teachers, funding, parental choice and their reputation depend on their position in the local and national league tables.

Jackie
08-10-2011, 10:34
So this is something that any school could do including Wingate. It is sad really because parents who take their time to find out about schools and exam grades etc. are in fact, going by what you are saying being lied to and their child would do just as well/bad in any school.

MrsTT
08-10-2011, 11:45
I have no specific information about any other school.

As a headteacher I was encouraged to 'massage' my figures by my Local Education Authority, my Governing Body and the Government.

As for changing goalposts, the success criteria for a child being considered a good average when the National Curriculum started in 1988 was to achieve level 2 by the end of KS1. Then a very bright child would be well on their way to level 3.
In KS2 the criteria was different and instead of expecting a child to progress through 2 levels in 2 - 3 years education, each level was more complex and required at least 2 years to complete, so that a child was a good average if they reached the end of Level 4 at the end of their primary education in Year 6.

So a child who transferred to Year 3 with a level 3 may take until year 5 to reach level 4. And similarly in secondary education, transfer to KS3 was not as seamless as the government would like you to think and the criteria for accepting a Level 4 in the first year at secondary education were different to the ones for a Level 4 in year 6.

I know this was so because I was the Special Needs Advisory Teacher for Lincolnshire at the time. The Advisory Team welcomed the National Curriculum and assumed that the 4 Key Stages would provide a seamless system for the children in the schools, and make it easier to support children in the Special Schools who often stayed in one place for their entire education. But the theory did not match the practice and being in the unique position of having to compare the whole thing, ( most teachers focussed on their own area as they had little time to take in the new information) we discovered very soon that the system had big flaws.

As the NC became an integral part of the education system, level 3 became the benchmark for children progressing to Year 3, something that originally should have taken two more years to acquire properly, and was now expected to be 'achieved' at the age of seven by the average child! And level 5 for the children transferring to Secondary Education. The average - not the brightest. I can show you the range of information that was supposed to be acquired to reach each level. It is awesome.

The latest government have scrapped the National Curriculum and have gone back to where I started in teaching - a topic based approach, but they still haven´t lost the desire to test to extinction the love of learning.

Any school that wishes to survive in the competitive world of league tables and standardised tests must jump to through the appropriate hoops to give their children the best chance to compete effectively in the current world.

To me teaching is about finding out what the student knows, and then helping that person to acquire the knowledge they next need. There should be no stigma attached to age or level of ability. Everyone working at their own pace with their own challenges and goals, leads to success for the pupil and encourages them to achieve more. It is the teachers not the school that inspire and lead the learners. The school makes a space to facilitate learning.
Not every good teacher is a well qualified one and not every person with good qualifications is a good teacher. Just my opinion of course - I´ll get off my soapbox now :shy:

Jackie
08-10-2011, 12:52
Mrs TT you can stay on your soapbox, it is good to hear someones view of this who obviously has a bit more 'inside information' shall we say than most parents, as the schools obviously don't disclose this kind of information to them. What I think is a shame is when there are a couple of bright kids in a class but the whole class is taught at the same level, trying to bring those that are lagging behind up to an average level rather than encouraging the brighter ones to do as well as they could as well. I can understand what you are saying about why a school would dress up grades. I couldn't work out why, when I went to meet the head at Wingate prior to my son starting he wanted to see his sats results for Yr 6 when my son was actually starting there in year 11. My son got level 7 in all of his sats results for that year, I think level 5 was what they were aiming for at the time. Maybe Wingate also only take kids in later years that have above average grades from previous schools to make an impression on their own statistics. It's just a shame that they can't continue with the level of education once the child actually starts there ;)

lozzie1821
08-10-2011, 13:09
Lozzie you say if your dad had doubted Wingate he would have took you out but you say you was there your whole school life, who really knows then what you would have achieved at a different school. I know a lot of people that are happy with it, people with children like yourself who have known nothing different. Ask people who's children had not been there all their school life and who have another school (more so Senior) to compare it to and I think you will get a different view.


I am sure you are right jackie.. as i know when i left wingate i went to britannia and i got excellent grades in the subjects i choose to do... A level english, pyschology, travel & tourism, beauty therapy & i re sat maths gcse..
Wingate is all ive ever known but due to being there my whole life i know 1st hand that wingate is not perfect.... no1 could ever say the school they went to was - people will always find faults however minor about something..

as for the "shove" comment maybe it was the wrong word to use BUT i do know a family who came over here and straight away they put their kids into spanish school when in convo they were asked why they chose this their answer was straight " Cheaper and easier!" that to me is shoving kids into a school not really taking into consideration putting them into an english school...

Bekki
08-10-2011, 13:23
Yes but that is one family you know that did that.. Your comment was "like most people do" I chose to put my son in a Spanish school as I wanted him to grow up with Canarian children and Canarian culture. If a British education was so important to us for him we wouldn't have come here.

lozzie1821
08-10-2011, 14:18
Yes but that is one family you know that did that.. Your comment was "like most people do" I chose to put my son in a Spanish school as I wanted him to grow up with Canarian children and Canarian culture. If a British education was so important to us for him we wouldn't have come here.

i will be doing the exact same with my 2 once they turn 3... I have no issues with spanish schooling & like ive said if i find once they hit senior school a move might be best then so be it but ofcourse until then i have no 2nd thoughts about putting the kids into our local spanish school :-)
My daughter is 2 and speaks spanish already and i think its great, at home she speaks spanish to me sometimes but i mainly speak to her in english (unless we are around canarian people)

Bekki
08-10-2011, 14:34
My little boy is almost 6 and his Spanish is coming on really well and he's really eager to learn as he hates it when other kids can do something he can't, not in a bad way but he knows that in order to fully understand the kids in his class he needs to mix with them rather than just being safe and mixing with the English kids, which was one of the reasons I decided against wingate as when we went to look around all I could hear were English children. Obviously I didnt see every single child in the school but what I heard was English. Nothing against the school it's just each to their own. My sons not exactly shy an will mix with any child and try and speak any language haha but I can see why English schools would benefit some young children and as in jackies case a child that only had one year left. The most important thing is where your child is happy and feels comfortable. If they're happy they will want to be there and want to learn :-)

margo
05-02-2012, 14:24
Horses for causes i say, My daughter is also in the Spanish School system and i have to say i have nothing but praise for the schools she has been in. I feel she is getting an excellent standard of education and because she goes to a school local to us she has been able to make friends locally and therefore is able to play after school or on weekends without the need for us to drive her everywhere. We're not in a financial position to pay for a private education so it was never really a matter of which should we choose, I do know of people equally happy with their choice of Private schooling be it British or Spanish and i think as long as the kids are happy in school and the parents are happy with the standards of education they're receiving thats all that matters.

hi there.
was just having a read at your thread there. im moving to tenrfie in the summer with my son who is 9 he speaks no spanish at all. did your kids settle in ok?? and what are the first steps in me applying to a state school? do I have to be in the country to do so??

Ms.C
07-09-2012, 20:29
If your kids joined the British system here they would learn to spell definitely for a start!

slodgedad
08-09-2012, 01:21
If your kids joined the British system here they would learn to spell definitely for a start!


They probably would, to begin with..