View Full Version : The Tenerife illegal lettings thread
If the sole agent also owns 50%+1 of the apartments can they basically make up the rules to suit themselves ?
getting a sole agent in place now on a dormant touristic site makes sense only to avoid the current crackdown.There are moves now starting on our complex to get this done. My friend who let me know I had been fined and myself wanted to do this way back when the inspections first started. I am hearing though, that some renters who have not been fined yet only want to participate if thet dont have to pay anything.
So as ever in community life getting things done is never easy, even in a situation like we are in.
The fact remains that sole agency and monopoly exploitation are crazy ways to run self catering holiday accomodations. The association is campaigning to allow private renting without sole agents, that is the future. By all means get some sort of sole agent in place now, but people should continue to support the association to reform the present laws and move to a sensible system of permited letting.
I don't think the Association is campaigning to remove sole agent rules as such, thereby allowing private letting - if it is, it will not be succesful.
Turismo want (and need) to ensure that the touristic offer on the islands meets a number of minimum standards (Receptions, Life-Guards, security, safety etc). Using a licensing system via agents grouping together apartments on complexes is a simple and effective way of handling this, rather than having to inspect and license every individual apartment on every Canary island.
I believe the Association IS however saying that a review of the sole agent rules is, perhaps, necessary, and hopes to reach a consensual understanding with Turismo on the issues that have arisen recently.
The Association is seeking to allow Villas to be brought into the touristic offer, and looking to negotiate the level of penalties into line with similar "offences".
I may be wrong, but when 30%+ of your "industry" (GDP) revolves around the touristic offer, I cannot see the Association persuading the Government into effectively "legalising" the recent "free-for-all" - it is the very reason the laws were made in the first instance, and more recently widely enforced.
I don't think the Association is campaigning to remove sole agent rules as such, thereby allowing private letting - if it is, it will not be succesful.
Turismo want (and need) to ensure that the touristic offer on the islands meets a number of minimum standards (Receptions, Life-Guards, security, safety etc). Using a licensing system via agents grouping together apartments on complexes is a simple and effective way of handling this, rather than having to inspect and license every individual apartment on every Canary island.
I believe the Association IS however saying that a review of the sole agent rules is, perhaps, necessary, and hopes to reach a consensual understanding with Turismo on the issues that have arisen recently.
The Association is seeking to allow Villas to be brought into the touristic offer, and looking to negotiate the level of penalties into line with similar "offences".
I may be wrong, but when 30%+ of your "industry" (GDP) revolves around the touristic offer, I cannot see the Association persuading the Government into effectively "legalising" the recent "free-for-all" - it is the very reason the laws were made in the first instance, and more recently widely enforced.
I think that legalising individual letting without any agent least not a monpoloy sole agent is a core aim of the association. If you read senor escobedos article he suggested an annual permit fee of I think 1200 euro. In my opinion thats too high , I think the portugese 400 euro is fairer.
At the end of the day sole agents and monopoly exploitation are just an emporer with no clothes, they have no place whatsoever in the world of letting holiday lets. They always were a daft idea, and thats why those laws were ignored for so long. The modern internet age means that holiday apartments all around the world can be let by their owners to willing clients, without any need for the additional intervention at cost of the sole agent.
Change will come here too, because the system as it stands is out of touch with reality and out of step with the rest of the world.
Its days are now very much numbered.
If the sole agent also owns 50%+1 of the apartments can they basically make up the rules to suit themselves ?
What rules do you mean?
Added after 14 minutes:
I think that legalising individual letting without any agent least not a monpoloy sole agent is a core aim of the association. If you read senor escobedos article he suggested an annual permit fee of I think 1200 euro. In my opinion thats too high , I think the portugese 400 euro is fairer.
At the end of the day sole agents and monopoly exploitation are just an emporer with no clothes, they have no place whatsoever in the world of letting holiday lets. They always were a daft idea, and thats why those laws were ignored for so long. The modern internet age means that holiday apartments all around the world can be let by their owners to willing clients, without any need for the additional intervention at cost of the sole agent.
Change will come here too, because the system as it stands is out of touch with reality and out of step with the rest of the world.
Its days are now very much numbered.
Nelson you might not be able to see any benefits of sole agents but I would suggest that that is because you can't see further than your own nose.
Don't count on anything changing.
Take the steps that are already there to make yourself legal while you can.
I think that legalising individual letting without any agent least not a monpoloy sole agent is a core aim of the association. If you read senor escobedos article he suggested an annual permit fee of I think 1200 euro. In my opinion thats too high , I think the portugese 400 euro is fairer.
At the end of the day sole agents and monopoly exploitation are just an emporer with no clothes, they have no place whatsoever in the world of letting holiday lets. They always were a daft idea, and thats why those laws were ignored for so long. The modern internet age means that holiday apartments all around the world can be let by their owners to willing clients, without any need for the additional intervention at cost of the sole agent.
Change will come here too, because the system as it stands is out of touch with reality and out of step with the rest of the world.
Its days are now very much numbered.
No statement of aims has yet been drafted and approved by the Association ... when it has been, it will be posted here :)
Angusjim
03-04-2012, 10:38
[QUOTE=Loaded;161518]What rules do you mean?
I am thinking for example how many weeks a year can you use your property, how much will you receive for bookings, how does the agent decide which apartments they rent out (do they ensure theirs are filled 1st ) seems to me they are pushing owners down a route that they have little or no control over, I personally would not buy on a Touristic complex until sole agents are fully regulated and there are safe guards in place for the owners. I think you have to relize that not everyone has the same business ethics as yourself & Oasis and the current system is open to abuse EG the situation that JungleJim referred to in his post and I am sure there are other similar stories.
Just buy a Hotel Jim and control it all yourself
The other problem is that these sole agencies can change hands. So you may buy a property on a complex where there is a fair system in place with the sole agent. A year later he sells to a someone else who proceeds to legally rip all the owners off or force them to stop receiving any income whatsoever from their own property.
junglejim
03-04-2012, 11:18
The other problem is that these sole agencies can change hands. So you may buy a property on a complex where there is a fair system in place with the sole agent. A year later he sells to a someone else who proceeds to legally rip all the owners off or force them to stop receiving any income whatsoever from their own property.
My latest information is that Konrad is offering €45 per week for the apartments!!
Surely there must be some legal route to challenge what is blatant mafia style extortion of peoples property ?
Does the Turismo have no regulatory powers over these Sole Agencies as this only adds fuel to the fire of how unjust this law is ?
The silence from some of the reputable Sole Agents on this speaks volumes !
Angusjim
03-04-2012, 11:23
My latest information is that Konrad is offering €45 per week for the apartments!!
Surely there must be some legal route to challenge what is blatant mafia style extortion of peoples property ?
Does the Turismo have no regulatory powers over these Sole Agencies as this only adds fuel to the fire of how unjust this law is ?
The silence from some of the reputable Sole Agents on this speaks volumes !
JJ does he own the 50% + 1 ?
junglejim
03-04-2012, 11:41
As far as I know yes he owns a fair amount plus leasebacks where he pays this sum. The owners must organise to fight against this blatant exploitation - epitomises all that is wrong with this law !
[QUOTE=Loaded;161518]What rules do you mean?
I am thinking for example how many weeks a year can you use your property, how much will you receive for bookings, how does the agent decide which apartments they rent out (do they ensure theirs are filled 1st ) seems to me they are pushing owners down a route that they have little or no control over, I personally would not buy on a Touristic complex until sole agents are fully regulated and there are safe guards in place for the owners. I think you have to relize that not everyone has the same business ethics as yourself & Oasis and the current system is open to abuse EG the situation that JungleJim referred to in his post and I am sure there are other similar stories.
I fully appreciate not everyone has the same ethics and that some do abuse the position they are given.
That said the owners still have a choice - if you don't have a sole agent and need one then you can chose one that gives you a bum deal or you pick one that will give you a fair deal. Simples
OK so lets say owners want to replace the sole agent. Lets go through the process:
1. Find a new/better/fairer agent who is willing and competent enough to take over
2. Contact as many owners as possible
3. Raise an extraordinary meeting
4. Put forward the proposal to oust the current agent
5. Count the votes?
Is there a lot more to it than that? Is that the process?
Close...
1. Find a sole agent willing to do the job.
2. Gather support from other owners in any way possible (including but not necessarily at an EGM).
3. Get the owners to sign their apartments to the required sole agent.
4. The sole agent would then present his application to the cabildo.
5. The cabildo would get in touch with the current license holder and make them aware that someone else has 50%+1, if they don't reply or dont prove that the new agent doesn't have 50%+1 then they are ousted and the new guy installed.
6. The new agent would have to make the complex and the apartments reach the standards and requirements drained in the new tourist laws from oct 2010 decreto 142/2010....ie they'd need to be 3 star minimum.
If a "dormant touristic site" is wanting to install someone This would need to he done in the next few weeks as the inspectors are now going around looking at who is no longer operating and cancellig their registration .
Added after 7 minutes:
Also although 50%+1 of the owners are needed it isn't "voted on" at an agm or egm, it's counted via each owner writing authorisation for a sole agent to register and commercially let their apartment including the use of it's communal zones and installations .
So there is hope...! I think the best course of action is to form a vocal group of owners who will make their intentions to oust the agent very clear to them. Then the owners can propose a new deal for their apartments. If that doesn't work then continue gathering support until enough owners have given authorization to another agent.
The most difficult part I suspect would be contacting all of the owners but this may be aided by the administrator??
I think owners on complexes where the sole agent is pretty much "exploiting" them need to start taking action now, set a precedent and make it common knowledge that touristic complexes are not a soft target for business types to lord it over and profiteer from.
On my side of the subject I am actively investigating the complexes I market to ensure conditions are fair to those who wish to derive an income. But it is difficult and the information doesn't seem so easy to come by so if you have any tips on this do let me know!
There is hope bit it's much easier to try and get the government to revise several different laws after a lengthly legal battle.
jogger321
04-04-2012, 11:59
So there is hope...! I think the best course of action is to form a vocal group of owners who will make their intentions to oust the agent very clear to them. Then the owners can propose a new deal for their apartments. If that doesn't work then continue gathering support until enough owners have given authorization to another agent.
The most difficult part I suspect would be contacting all of the owners but this may be aided by the administrator??
I think owners on complexes where the sole agent is pretty much "exploiting" them need to start taking action now, set a precedent and make it common knowledge that touristic complexes are not a soft target for business types to lord it over and profiteer from.
On my side of the subject I am actively investigating the complexes I market to ensure conditions are fair to those who wish to derive an income. But it is difficult and the information doesn't seem so easy to come by so if you have any tips on this do let me know!
And what about the totally hypothetical situation whereby the individual or company offering their services as "sole agent" owns numerous apartments on the touristic complex to an extent that they play a large part in deciding who is chosen as "sole agent"??
So long as they dont own a huge amount then there should be more private owners to outvote them. If they actually own 50% themselves though then your knackered!
Its up to the owners as a group to make themselves heard. I think any sole agent staring down a revolt with good numbers of owners coming together would be pretty stupid not to agree to some amendments to the renting rules they have set in place.
The really hard part is going to be overcoming the apathy a lot of owners will have towards it all.
I think if they own 50%+1 then you've got a tough time convincing them of anything - except if they were worth their salt they'd want to fill the other 49% of the apartments also, this would make them money too after all.
One minute we are saying there is thousands of tourists staying in illegal accomadation
The next we are saying maybe there will not be enough people to go around in the legalised/legal stuff
Make up your minds
The most difficult part I suspect would be contacting all of the owners but this may be aided by the administrator?? I think owners on complexes where the sole agent is pretty much "exploiting" them need to start taking action now, set a precedent and make it common knowledge that touristic complexes are not a soft target for business types to lord it over and profiteer from.
On my side of the subject I am actively investigating the complexes I market to ensure conditions are fair to those who wish to derive an income. But it is difficult and the information doesn't seem so easy to come by so if you have any tips on this do let me know!
I don´t think that your administrator will give you addresses, telephone numbers, etc. from the owners as this is not allowed according to the data protection act.
I would suggest that you contact the president and that you show him the advantages of changing company. In that case you both can make a “newsletter” and ask the administration to send this letter to all owners.
I was thinking the administrator or president could send out an email or post a letter to all owners,
Is there anyway to access AGM minutes after annual meetings? Had this problem recently when an administrator said we couldnt have a copy, the owner (a bank) didnt have them and wasnt interested in obtaining them so the buyer was a bit put out at not being able to have a read and see what was happening on there.
I was thinking the administrator or president could send out an email or post a letter to all owners,
Is there anyway to access AGM minutes after annual meetings? Had this problem recently when an administrator said we couldnt have a copy, the owner (a bank) didnt have them and wasnt interested in obtaining them so the buyer was a bit put out at not being able to have a read and see what was happening on there.
I don´t think that your administrator is willing to send out a letter to all owners from an owner. That is why I suggested to try to get the president on your side.
We publish the minutes on the internet for the next 25 years so all (new) owners can download the previous minutes. This will of course not help you. Each owner is entitled to obtain a copy of the minutes, so your administrator should give you a copy without any problem.
Having read the last few posts I realise that the agent running the Panorama is the same as the one running Altamira. I'm wondering if owners insisting on still letting privately will be denounced on this complex too. We recently had an AGM where the risk of fines from Tourismo were discussed ..... but many owners still seem to believe "it won't happen to me"!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe "panorama" should investigate lol
Having read the last few posts I realise that the agent running the Panorama is the same as the one running Altamira. I'm wondering if owners insisting on still letting privately will be denounced on this complex too. We recently had an AGM where the risk of fines from Tourismo were discussed ..... but many owners still seem to believe "it won't happen to me"!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What sort of deal are owners getting on Altamira? Is it reasonable?
junglejim
05-04-2012, 06:13
I think you'll find Konrad operates under Hovima Brand and as previously reported e.g. Santa Maria -his terms are just as bad !
http://www.hovima-hotels.com/
It will be interesting to see what happens next in Club Atlantis !
What sort of deal are owners getting on Altamira? Is it reasonable?
Well ... considering the value of the apartments (a one bedroom place sells for about 250,000€, some a lot more) the return is pathetic from an investment point of view. They pay the community fees, plus 4,600€ per year. The owner gets to use the apartment for four weeks of the year which must be taken in either May/June/September/October. Most of those owners who were previously advertising their properties on the internet were charging 350.00 pounds a week, and filling their places for more than 80% of the year.
Added after 3 minutes:
I think you'll find Konrad operates under Hovima Brand and as previously reported e.g. Santa Maria -his terms are just as bad !
http://www.hovima-hotels.com/
It will be interesting to see what happens next in Club Atlantis !
Altamira was previously run under the Hovima name .... but at the end of the last year they set up a new company with a new name, just for Altamira. The same company runs it ... just changed the name!
jogger321
05-04-2012, 11:47
Well ... considering the value of the apartments (a one bedroom place sells for about 250,000€, some a lot more) the return is pathetic from an investment point of view. They pay the community fees, plus 4,600€ per year. The owner gets to use the apartment for four weeks of the year which must be taken in either May/June/September/October. Most of those owners who were previously advertising their properties on the internet were charging 350.00 pounds a week, and filling their places for more than 80% of the year.
Added after 3 minutes:
Altamira was previously run under the Hovima name .... but at the end of the last year they set up a new company with a new name, just for Altamira. The same company runs it ... just changed the name!
I guess owners may have not been too concerned about the rubbish property yields on the properties back in the day when all it took was to switch on the TV watch a couple of episodes of a Place in the Sun and you woke up 12 months later to find your property had risen by 30% by doing bugger all. Fortunately those fantasy land days with toy town economics are over!
Angusjim
06-04-2012, 13:05
I have just bought an apartment in residential complex can I rent it out to holiday makers or just family & friends . I know its OK to do this Portugal ???:whistle:
I wouldn't worry about it Jim, buy where you want and rent it... It´ll all blow over - didn't Bruce tell you that when you asked him? I wonder if he has changed his mind since then!
Angusjim
06-04-2012, 13:23
I wouldn't worry about it Jim, buy where you want and rent it... It´ll all blow over - didn't Bruce tell you that when you asked him? I wonder if he has changed his mind since then!
well that seems to be the view of the "professionals";)
I wouldn't worry about it Jim, buy where you want and rent it... It´ll all blow over - didn't Bruce tell you that when you asked him? I wonder if he has changed his mind since then!
That'll be a Brucey Bonus
x
More notifications on todays boletin, the clampdown continues.
I have a friend (honest) who has been a bit worried about this issue. He has an apartment and rents but was/is unsure of the status. He doesnt come on forums such as this and until I pointed out the issue was blissfully ignorant of anything connected to it.
I have been doing some checking on his behalf and using some of those who seek to inform have discovered that his complex did at least have a tourist license at some point and appears to still have. It has seemingly been difficult to find out who currently holds this as nobody is actively using it within the regulations as I see it. There is certainly nobody running an office or doing any form of admin on site and it would seem that all the owners are doing there own thing.
I wondered if there was an opportunity there for someone to do this properly but dont seem to be able to get difinitive info on the current status. Alarmingly the current president either doesnt know the answers or is reluctant to give the truth as he has been very slow in answering and in some instances has not replied.
I would stress my friend had ultimate faith in this guy who took over the presidency in what could almost be described as a coup as the former had been doing many naughty things including providing livilihoods for his entire family for work that never appeared to have been done. So he is surprised as to the reluctance or lack of knowledge from someone who should know although the president has five (I think) apartments on the complex so maybe there is a clue there.
If they could get to the bottom of this and be convinced they have a proper tourist license albeit maybe needs some form of resurrecting then it would ease his worries. Can anyone suggest the way forward.
For obvious reasons I have at this stage left out the name of the complex in question
I have a friend (honest) who has been a bit worried about this issue. He has an apartment and rents but was/is unsure of the status. He doesnt come on forums such as this and until I pointed out the issue was blissfully ignorant of anything connected to it.
I have been doing some checking on his behalf and using some of those who seek to inform have discovered that his complex did at least have a tourist license at some point and appears to still have. It has seemingly been difficult to find out who currently holds this as nobody is actively using it within the regulations as I see it. There is certainly nobody running an office or doing any form of admin on site and it would seem that all the owners are doing there own thing.
I wondered if there was an opportunity there for someone to do this properly but dont seem to be able to get difinitive info on the current status. Alarmingly the current president either doesnt know the answers or is reluctant to give the truth as he has been very slow in answering and in some instances has not replied.
I would stress my friend had ultimate faith in this guy who took over the presidency in what could almost be described as a coup as the former had been doing many naughty things including providing livilihoods for his entire family for work that never appeared to have been done. So he is surprised as to the reluctance or lack of knowledge from someone who should know although the president has five (I think) apartments on the complex so maybe there is a clue there.
If they could get to the bottom of this and be convinced they have a proper tourist license albeit maybe needs some form of resurrecting then it would ease his worries. Can anyone suggest the way forward.
For obvious reasons I have at this stage left out the name of the complex in question
There is an opportunity for someone and for all the owners but there are now seemingly 2 major problems:
1. Getting it through to so many owners who are/were blissfully unaware and happy doing what they were and making what they do/did.
2. There is a very limited amount of time left for "dormant touristic" complexes as the inspectors are going to each complex NOW finding out who is operating and who isn't .... The ones that aren't operating (properly) will have their license cancelled. To get it back they will then need 100% of the complex to register instead of 50%+1 if just changing the title holder.
So basically you need to get everyone's bum into gear ASAP .
Here's an article i wrote a few months back on this:
http://www.propertyforsaleintenerife.com/what-is-next-for-property-owners-who-let.asp
Peterrayner
10-04-2012, 11:51
More notifications on todays boletin, the clampdown continues.
These latest ones all seem to be on islands other than Tenerife as well.
excuse my ignorance but how/where do you view this list.
Hypothetical question but how would you know if you were fined? what actually occurs, embargo on property etc?
These latest ones all seem to be on islands other than Tenerife as well.Other islands and Spanish as well as British,Italian,German etc. This is not race related and there are many local people affected.
delderek
15-04-2012, 09:14
And the building Maratorium on Tourist complexes and licences has just been renewed. According to an unmentionable source.
golf birdie
15-04-2012, 12:35
And the building Maratorium on Tourist complexes and licences has just been renewed. According to an unmentionable source.
what a surprise.
The moratorium review isn't until may so don't believe your source just yet
The moratorium review isn't until may so don't believe your source just yet
Looks like they have extended it for a short period (until 13 Dec 2012) to give them more time to decide whether to renew
Siendo así, mediante la Ley de Medidas Urgentes se determinaron los límites supuestos en los que podrían otorgarse autorizaciones previas para los establecimientos turísticos para las islas de Lanzarote, Fuerteventura, Gran Canaria y Tenerife y para los tres años siguientes a su entrada en vigor, en mayo de 2009, pero dado la proximidad del vencimiento del plazo de vigencia (mayo de este año), el Gobierno optó por ampliar hasta el 13 de diciembre el periodo.
http://eldia.es/2012-03-31/CANARIAS/5-Ejecutivo-prorrogara-moratoria-turistica-finales-ano.htm
Looks like they have extended it for a short period (until 13 Dec 2012) to give them more time to decide whether to renew
Siendo así, mediante la Ley de Medidas Urgentes se determinaron los límites supuestos en los que podrían otorgarse autorizaciones previas para los establecimientos turísticos para las islas de Lanzarote, Fuerteventura, Gran Canaria y Tenerife y para los tres años siguientes a su entrada en vigor, en mayo de 2009, pero dado la proximidad del vencimiento del plazo de vigencia (mayo de este año), el Gobierno optó por ampliar hasta el 13 de diciembre el periodo.
http://eldia.es/2012-03-31/CANARIAS/5-Ejecutivo-prorrogara-moratoria-turistica-finales-ano.htm
Being like that, by means of the Law of Urgent Measures the supposed limits decided in those who might grant previous authorizations to him for the tourist establishments for the islands of Lanzarote, Fuerteventura, Gran Canari and Tenerife and for three years following his entry into force, in May, 2009, but in view of the proximity of the maturity of the term of force (May of this year), the Government chose to extend until December 13 the period.
Oh how I love the Googlespeak Language !
Thank you so much
Added after 15 minutes:
Off topic slightly perhaps, but interesting nonetheless - today's La Opinion has an article about Airport numbers, which were down in March (against rises in Jan Feb against previous year) leading to their being no overall increase in passenger numbers so far in 2012.
Worse still is a drop in landing/takeoff prebookings of 8% across the islands (5 ish in Tenerife) for the summer months - rise in fuel and lack of money in pockets being blamed - and these figures do not yet include the likely effects of fare increases through the removal of the airport subsidy.
Make me laugh - In January Rivero and Soria promised faithfully the airport subsidy will remain, yet weeks later Madrid removes then in the budget. In fact Rivero is in one of the papers today claiming he couldn't believe how cruel Madrid have been to the islands in the budget.
Makes you wonder if he (and the others) have been genuinly living in a cave these past 2 or 3 years, totally oblivious to the realities of the big nasty world out there.
I'n guessing this is partly behind the mini-extension to the moratorium - they simply havent got a clue. With almost a billion Euros cut from the grants from the mainland to the islands, I'd say the pressure to get some money in has never been greater, and collecting in some fines for "illegal letting" is a route which already exists in law.
A very painful summer on the way I fear.
just returned from a wonderful stay on the island. Official visitor numbers are starting to show declines on last year, the egypt north africa factor is starting to disappear, these destinations are back on the market as the revolutions calm down.
whilst waiting at the airport departures to get on the monarch flight a canary lady was asking all our flight where we had stayed and for how long. Being a monarch flight clearly most were apartment tourists so lets face it more than half would have been illegal apartment customers.
Despite the fact that the crackdown continues without any sign of the government seeing sense, this bit of surveying made me wonder if they are beginning to consider the damage they are inflicting on their economy. The next few weeks will show the lack of internet adds have a big impact on that type of tourist in the canaries. I know from my own experience our winter bookings are done, now its a very lean period moving forward. All these lack of tourists for internet advert apartments has to be reflected in less customers for the flights of monarch,jet 2, ryan air, easyjet. That down turn must appear in stark contrast to just a year ago, and should be clearly on the advance bookings forecasts of these airlines today.
A double whammy is set to hit the canary tourist economy, official numbers down due to the re emergence of egypt/ n africa, and at the same time the canary government decided to destroy its 30 hotels worth of small private let apartments.
And all this in the middle of a global economic crissis.
delderek
15-04-2012, 17:54
The moratorium review isn't until may so don't believe your source just yet
OK so its only an extension till December, and my source has always been 100% correct.
Is there one moratorium for new build touristic and another for the villa holiday licenses or does it all fall under the same one?
just returned from a wonderful stay on the island. Official visitor numbers are starting to show declines on last year, the egypt north africa factor is starting to disappear, these destinations are back on the market as the revolutions calm down.
whilst waiting at the airport departures to get on the monarch flight a canary lady was asking all our flight where we had stayed and for how long. Being a monarch flight clearly most were apartment tourists so lets face it more than half would have been illegal apartment customers.
Despite the fact that the crackdown continues without any sign of the government seeing sense, this bit of surveying made me wonder if they are beginning to consider the damage they are inflicting on their economy. The next few weeks will show the lack of internet adds have a big impact on that type of tourist in the canaries. I know from my own experience our winter bookings are done, now its a very lean period moving forward. All these lack of tourists for internet advert apartments has to be reflected in less customers for the flights of monarch,jet 2, ryan air, easyjet. That down turn must appear in stark contrast to just a year ago, and should be clearly on the advance bookings forecasts of these airlines today.
A double whammy is set to hit the canary tourist economy, official numbers down due to the re emergence of egypt/ n africa, and at the same time the canary government decided to destroy its 30 hotels worth of small private let apartments.
And all this in the middle of a global economic crissis.
It is FAR more to do with the rise in fuel costs, the Spanish Government imposed removal of subsidies from the Canarian (and mainland) airports.
The (current) Canarian Government have no idea how to run a bath, let alone a country during conditions such as Europe is experiencing. The independance movement is getting stronger here by the day as the real culprit is perceived to be the Mother Land who, to them at least, are considered to be abandoning their conquest.
The Government here will need cash - lots of it and very quickly. They will see the imposition and collecting in of the outstanding (and still to come) fines as a much faster and more lucrative way of raising cash than charging an apartment owner a licence fee in order to allow them to rent - if they were even to consider taking such a route, the license would be much, much more than that which you would like to see charged.
You can bet your life that at some point soon you'll get a nice little demand for back tax from the Hacienda.
xx
delderek
15-04-2012, 18:55
Is there one moratorium for new build touristic and another for the villa holiday licenses or does it all fall under the same one?
I'm not a lawyer, but in the past this has always been "No New Touristic Licences", otherwise the moratorium could easily be flouted.
OK so its only an extension till December, and my source has always been 100% correct.
Is your source the newspaper?
Added after 2 minutes:
@nelson: visitor numbers for us are up again ! The year so
Far is 20% up on last year (our best ever year).... April is running at 20% up, booking for may and June have already reached last years figures and this is a typical "late to book" period so we
Expect to be at least 15-20% up... July and august projections are even better...
delderek
15-04-2012, 19:13
Is your source the newspaper?
Added after 2 minutes:
@nelson: visitor numbers for us are up again ! The year so
Far is 20% up on last year (our best ever year).... April is running at 20% up, booking for may and June have already reached last years figures and this is a typical "late to book" period so we
Expect to be at least 15-20% up... July and august projections are even better...
No its the well known lady, that if I mention her name, I get PM's from admin threatening castration, or similar horrible things.:ashamed:
Is your source the newspaper?
Added after 2 minutes:
@nelson: visitor numbers for us are up again ! The year so
Far is 20% up on last year (our best ever year).... April is running at 20% up, booking for may and June have already reached last years figures and this is a typical "late to book" period so we
Expect to be at least 15-20% up... July and august projections are even better...
It is in the Sunday's yes, together with the story about the 8% drop in prebooked landing/take off slots at the airports this summer (El Dia and La Opinion)
Is your source the newspaper?
Added after 2 minutes:
@nelson: visitor numbers for us are up again ! The year so
Far is 20% up on last year (our best ever year).... April is running at 20% up, booking for may and June have already reached last years figures and this is a typical "late to book" period so we
Expect to be at least 15-20% up... July and august projections are even better...
well congratulations, that would be expected though, as you are left with far fewer compertitors due to everyone else, the illegal renters having to pull their internet ads. I have always acknowledged myself that this protectionist action does help the few business's who benefit from it. The problem for the rest of the people is that they suffer. Its great for you to be full up, but you have not got the capacity to take all the ex illegal bed customers that in the future can not find an apartment to rent. Your own full capacity is not going to replace all the lost work for taxi drivers, bars ,shops and restuarants.
Remember the whole town of los cristianos will look a lot less attractive if this clampdown continues, apartments are empty with no buyers, shops, bars , restuarants begin to close down. The canarians without work will also start to make the resort less comfortable.
If all the customers who used to rent the private apartments could be found a legal bed which they liked , then there would not have been a problem in the first place. You enjoy your boom time , but consider the rest of the resorts situation as well.
Looks like there have been some more reductions in the fines from El Mirador and Port Royal. Now finalized at 13,800 Euros.Info on BOC today.
Looks like there have been some more reductions in the fines from El Mirador and Port Royal. Now finalized at 13,800 Euros.Info on BOC today.
When you say "finalized" would that mean that no further appeal will be considered?
When you say "finalized" would that mean that no further appeal will be considered?
The judgement allows an appeal within one month to the President of the Cabildo .... this step has already been taken in earlier cases but no outcome known yet, I gather.
rkennedy
17-04-2012, 16:53
Have any of you had a look at the letting sites recently? I normally go to Tenerife a number of times per year and in the late autumn go for a minimum of 4 weeks. I now notice from the letting sites that a huge number of apartments have been removed from these sites so my choice (at a reasonable rate!) has virtually disappeared. Looks like I will not be in Tenerife renting an apartment again. At least I still have my timeshare (Los Cristianos) and am arriving this Friday so will have a look around and try and find out what the latest situation is on Amarilla Golf where I normally "overwinter". The government need to change/revise this rule pronto or Tenerife will be a no mans land next winter.
seanocelt
17-04-2012, 18:45
Have any of you had a look at the letting sites recently? I normally go to Tenerife a number of times per year and in the late autumn go for a minimum of 4 weeks. I now notice from the letting sites that a huge number of apartments have been removed from these sites so my choice (at a reasonable rate!) has virtually disappeared. Looks like I will not be in Tenerife renting an apartment again. At least I still have my timeshare (Los Cristianos) and am arriving this Friday so will have a look around and try and find out what the latest situation is on Amarilla Golf where I normally "overwinter". The government need to change/revise this rule pronto or Tenerife will be a no mans land next winter.
That echoes a chat i was having today with people who were here last year. This year they are in Parque Santiago 3 as they could not get into Dinastia or El Mirador, no adverts on sites they use, and previous apts they used now not doing lets. The strip of bars has suffered badly from this, as people predicted. I live on El Mirador, and although i dont use the pool, when i pass it , very few people about.
So people that use the same illegal apartment year in year out will not go to another apartment in Tenerife because they like only one that feels like home.
But they will go to Egypt/another destination that they may of never been to and use an apartment they may of never used before.
British people pfft
seanocelt
17-04-2012, 19:20
So people that use the same illegal apartment year in year out will not go to another apartment in Tenerife because they like only one that feels like home.
But they will go to Egypt/another destination that they may of never been to and use an apartment they may of never used before.
British people pfft
Ones i spoke to took a hotel deal, just like Egypt choices! The hotels started this, and they will be the main benefactors long term.
All legal accommodation will benefit not just Hotels.
Is there any official document that says the Hotels started this or is it just a Tenerife forum rumor?
So people that use the same illegal apartment year in year out will not go to another apartment in Tenerife because they like only one that feels like home.
But they will go to Egypt/another destination that they may of never been to and use an apartment they may of never used before.
British people pfft
You're absolutely right with this Mark. Nobody better than us Brits for seeing our backsides if we can't have what we want. You probably do it yourself but obviously not over this because you live in Tenerife. But you probably do it over other stuff. We all do. That said, even though it's easy to make fun of, it really does happen and it stands a chance of happening on quite a large scale. That must start to show in the numbers sooner or later. If we look at Tenerife as a business, how many customers can it afford to lose?
seanocelt
17-04-2012, 20:00
All legal accommodation will benefit not just Hotels.
Is there any official document that says the Hotels started this or is it just a Tenerife forum rumor?
If its a rumour, im as guilty as the next , as i pointed out an Ashotel quote 2 years or so ago. Yes, agreed all legal accom will ultimately benefit. But the re-emergance of the dormant law was trigerred by hotel groups, not apartment complexes, i believe. Unless you know otherwise?! No matter, fact is, less accom available-as predicted, folks going to hotels -as predicted, bars quieter if not near hotels/legal accom -as predicted. (Given that LEGAL apartments are benefiting from more bookings).
All predictions by various people not just me. My point today was to confirm what i am seeing/hearing and its connection to the thread's history. ..........Dear.
Legal in
Illegal out
Better for everyone in the long run
rkennedy
17-04-2012, 20:31
So people that use the same illegal apartment year in year out will not go to another apartment in Tenerife because they like only one that feels like home.
But they will go to Egypt/another destination that they may of never been to and use an apartment they may of never used before.
British people pfft
You are assuming things again. Where did I say that I will be going to Egypt/another destination? I may want to save my money and go on a more expensive holiday in the summer. As it so happens I am going to Madeira in Nov/Dec. Also I did not say I will not visit Tenerife again as I have a timeshare apartment in Los Cristianos. What I did say was that I was not going to be there as often spending my money and that is to the detriment of the economy of Tenerife. Multiply it by x hundred number of other holiday makers and it will be a ghost town.
I have rented in both legal and illegal apartments and, yes, I will choose the one that feels like home - are you suggesting I choose otherwise? All I am trying to show is that the authorities need to sensibly look at their policies again - there is a big market out there to be tapped for affordable, quality apartments. If the authorities do not adopt sensible policies they will not be participating in that market - people will be voting with their feet.
You are assuming things again. Where did I say that I will be going to Egypt/another destination? I may want to save my money and go on a more expensive holiday in the summer. As it so happens I am going to Madeira in Nov/Dec. Also I did not say I will not visit Tenerife again as I have a timeshare apartment in Los Cristianos. What I did say was that I was not going to be there as often spending my money and that is to the detriment of the economy of Tenerife. Multiply it by x hundred number of other holiday makers and it will be a ghost town.
I have rented in both legal and illegal apartments and, yes, I will choose the one that feels like home - are you suggesting I choose otherwise? All I am trying to show is that the authorities need to sensibly look at their policies again - there is a big market out there to be tapped for affordable, quality apartments. If the authorities do not adopt sensible policies they will not be participating in that market - people will be voting with their feet.
if i'd meant you RKelly i would have copied and pasted your reply.
Have to laugh at this Home-Sweet-Home mentality however
if i'd meant you RKelly i would have copied and pasted your reply.
Have to laugh at this Home-Sweet-Home mentality however
whats he wingeing at anyway, he could get himself down on the 8 year waiting list for a jan/feb slot in paloma beach, the time would soon come round.
lakeside7
17-04-2012, 20:59
I have just returned from staying on a tourist complex, i noticed it was very busy, and i had a great time as usual, i think a comprimise should be made, why would building loads of residencial complexes in a tourist area make any sense anyway, i think many of the complexes may well become touristic if the majority of owners are buy to let owners, i am sure they will have been advised that they should not rent out on these complexes when they purchased, but were also told that everyone is doing it, and as long as your neighbour did not complain you should be ok, i am sure the local business owners near these complexes are very worried, most of the investment on the Island is from us Brits, without us they would not have made the money they have over the last 20 years or so, we need the Island to prosper so we can all enjoy it.
All legal accommodation will benefit not just Hotels.
Is there any official document that says the Hotels started this or is it just a Tenerife forum rumor?
absolute fact, the hotels screamed for the law in 1995 due to recesion then, and they screamed for this crackdown back in the start of the crissis of 2008. They looked at the internet ads and thoght these are all our lost customers.
They have no sympathy for legal sole agent apartments, in their minds they would like to see them gone too, indeed they have created a situation with sole agency that seeks to make self catering apartments like nearly hotels , with the 24 hour reception etc.
What they want to see is competitors with overheads like themselves, they are terrified of the competition from self catering apartments.
junglejim
17-04-2012, 21:13
if i'd meant you RKelly i would have copied and pasted your reply.
Have to laugh at this Home-Sweet-Home mentality however
I know of 6 people on my complex who will not be letting their apartment out this year ( that´s approximately 12 bookings each per year ) they have high quality fittings in their apartments and regular clients who will not stay in the more basic accommodation where you have to hire a kettle, toaster, TV (Konrad does this).
My friend who is being blackmailed on Panorama has spent €40k on refurbishing and furnishing his apartment to highest standard will be selling up - letting down his regular clients (15) .
All these people pay their taxes on their income here but will now stop - how can the Hacienda charge a deemed income on letting if it´s illegal to do so and attracts a fine - hypocracy at it´s finest!
ps 9Plus - my FB still not on timeline, it didn´t change over !
I will still come back to Tenerife and stay in an illegal apartment firstly because they are better than any legal one i have stayed in and are in an enviable front line location but my main reason is so i can stick 2 fingers up to whoever thought up this silly unworkable law in the first place, I can't understand why some of you who live there can't grasp that it will have major repercussions for each and everyone of you in the long run, Restaurantes/bars/supermarkets/taxi's will all suffer as the tumbleweed appears,please take off the tinted specs, at least 60 0f my friends who have holidayed there since the 80s on a very regular basis have started asking me questions over the last 15 months and each and everyone of them were adamant that they would try pastures new,We had 11 new years on the trot staying in PDLA with at least 20 couples and i used to come over approx 4 times per year,As the above poster has said,times that by 1000s and you will end up with a ghost town, I think most of you are in denial! :raspberry::whistle:
p.s Be careful what you wish for!
absolute fact, the hotels screamed for the law in 1995 due to recesion then, and they screamed for this crackdown back in the start of the crissis of 2008. They looked at the internet ads and thoght these are all our lost customers.
They have no sympathy for legal sole agent apartments, in their minds they would like to see them gone too, indeed they have created a situation with sole agency that seeks to make self catering apartments like nearly hotels , with the 24 hour reception etc.
What they want to see is competitors with overheads like themselves, they are terrified of the competition from self catering apartments.
You sounded terrified from day one
Added after 7 minutes:
How many of you "feel so strongly" people have done anything about your feeling?
You know write a letter to the Tourist board etc
:tiphat::wink2:
So people that use the same illegal apartment year in year out will not go to another apartment in Tenerife because they like only one that feels like home.
But they will go to Egypt/another destination that they may of never been to and use an apartment they may of never used before.
British people pfft
Not the case with me Mark, Plus (see what i did there) i used to travel the UK staying in hotels and no matter where i holiday i prefer an apartment, Over the years i have tried many apartments from one end of Los Cris-PDLA-La Caleta etc and prefer Centro PDLA around the Safari centre area! For me it is location first and foremost,I have tried other area's staggering up hills or in the back of beyond and they don't appeal to me one iota! When i eventually found a few apartments in the early 90s that catered for my every need i obviously stayed there on a regular basis,nice and quiet at night ,made loads of new friends who regularly stay there,then to find out 2 years ago that the 50 or so times i had stayed there was illegal but i am not breaking any laws because i am a mere holidaymaker, I have tried other Islands and other destinations but i love Tenerife,So for me its not a home from home thing its just common sense holidaywise and moneywise...:cheers::cheers::cheers:
*more tea vicar
Write to the tourist board and tell them how you feel they might just change
Write to the tourist board and tell them how you feel they might just change
Not worth the bother,all they are interested in is "brown envelopes" and freeloading all over the gaff!"alledgely" Why do you think they are trying to keep things "hush hush", If they were really serious they would have billboards erected at every illegal complex,Its a feeble complicated effort to appease the Hotel lobby!
pssst... its you're round :raspberry2::sunbathe::sunburn::shower::party4::ch eers2:
Billboards are needed then outside every illegal complex hahaha oh please
Billboards are needed then outside every illegal complex hahaha oh please
Pfffft they wouldn't dare! They don't even want it in the local or international press!!! *Ponders opening Tumbleweed shop* :wink2:
rkennedy
17-04-2012, 23:40
if i'd meant you RKelly i would have copied and pasted your reply.
Now I know why your avatar has spectacles! :wink2:
Angusjim
18-04-2012, 07:28
Write to the tourist board and tell them how you feel they might just change
Can you give details as to where and who to drop the brown envelopes off to want to make sure we bribe the correct officials :whistle:
One thing to NOTE going off the last meeting
The campaign that has been "started" is for tourist licensed complexes or those that are "Dormant", people that have recieved fines and it is not to change el Mirador nor Dinastia to touristic complexes or be able to rent touristically in those complexes nor any other residencial complex.
It was mentioned in the meeting on a couple of occasions that Residential is exactly that and will stay that way.
So going off the last meeting if they haven't changed their "idea", no body is fighting for the owners on residential complexes to be able to comerically rent to tourists
Theres a slot to start your own campaign for Residential complexes if you feel so strongly...
But if some of Tenerife finest Lawyers arn't going down that route i wonder what the reason for that is ? ? ? ?
Added after 2 minutes:
Can you give details as to where and who to drop the brown envelopes off to want to make sure we bribe the correct officials :whistle:
Jim even before any Hotels or complexes were built in Tenerife south, Land was already designated it uses.
I would just like to say that as a person living here in Tenerife for many years, I have seen people around me earn a very good living from renting their apartments here on the Island. For those of us that pay our taxes, the monies are invested - for the good of all - so why should certain individuals earn money from their illegal lettings and not put any money back into the Island. After all, it is the monies we pay that make Tenerife a lovely place to take a holiday. Declare your lettings, pay the tax and then everyone will be happy.
seanocelt
18-04-2012, 16:15
I would just like to say that as a person living here in Tenerife for many years, I have seen people around me earn a very good living from renting their apartments here on the Island. For those of us that pay our taxes, the monies are invested - for the good of all - so why should certain individuals earn money from their illegal lettings and not put any money back into the Island. After all, it is the monies we pay that make Tenerife a lovely place to take a holiday. Declare your lettings, pay the tax and then everyone will be happy.
Its more than a tax issue sadly, Petal. There is a law about standards of accomodation, that is now being enforced, with fines, taxes are another issue though still relevant.
Santiago
18-04-2012, 16:34
So people that use the same illegal apartment year in year out will not go to another apartment in Tenerife because they like only one that feels like home.
But they will go to Egypt/another destination that they may of never been to and use an apartment they may of never used before.
British people pfft.
You obviously don't understand the British holidaymaker who likes to stay in privately owned apartments. I have said it before on several occasions, we like where we stay, we like the views, the amenities, the people and the complex. Another complex a mile away with or without all the comforts, etc., would NEVER be the same and I say this as a holidaymaker who has been staying in Tenerife since the 70's. Should I not be allowed to choose the apartment I stay in, in the place where I want it to be, then I would rather go to a totally different place and start all over again!
I do not just have personal experience of this, I run a small caravan park with a regular repeat business, but should someone have to change their holiday dates they will do almost anything to get their usual unit, and I know how they feel. So don't assume that someone who stays in an apartment down near the Safari Centre, for instance, will be happy to stay in an apartment up by Puerto Colon, or, perish the thought, at La Caleta in an hotel.
Remember that Tenerife - and the Canaries - are no longer the very cheap option they used to be and there are other places on the other side of the Atlantic which can offer some high class accommodation legally and more cheaply! And, before I get accused, I do not stay in residential accommodation!
The tenerife holiday offer is not just open to tourists from the UK though.
It so happens that Brits are amongst the largest group that come here, but so do the Germans and many many other Europeans where the market is growing and fast.
This whole issue is not as complicated as it seems though. Yes, for those who happen to like staying in a particular residential complex because of its location and the accomodation, then it is a shame that this is becoming harder/impossible to do, but the real point is that it is illegal under Canarian law and has been for 16 or so years, so, frankly, tough turnips!
The point has been made that a good number of people who bought to let on residential complexes have contributed little or nothing to the local economy through the tax system and ultimately will have had their property bought for them by tourists paying in pound notes on arrival.
In addition of course, there are genuine reasons for the existence of the law. No safety inspections on the quality of the apartment and/or complex. No control over the quality of the touristic offer, the probability of invalid insurance policies, the dangers of no central keyholding/cleaning/complaints systems, nor lifeguards around pools and so on.
There may well be issues about the way touristic accomodation is managed, but that is another discussion. The real point is that I bet your caravan park is subject to a ream of laws about what you can do, can't do, what you have to provide for your guests and so on. Why then should it be any different here - if you want to offer a product to the tourist market, it has to reach certain standards??
And, before I get accused, I do not stay in residential accommodation
OK so you stop in Touristic
good chap
Peterrayner
18-04-2012, 22:26
OK so you stop in Touristic
good chap
Yes but...................it might still be deemed "illegal" for the touristic owner to advertise and to rent is property holidaymakers.
IIRC the association is lobbying for some changes in this respect and also for the independent villa owners.
How are they doing so far Peter?
Santiago
18-04-2012, 22:35
There may well be issues about the way touristic accomodation is managed, but that is another discussion. The real point is that I bet your caravan park is subject to a ream of laws about what you can do, can't do, what you have to provide for your guests and so on. Why then should it be any different here - if you want to offer a product to the tourist market, it has to reach certain standards??
Yes we are subject to certain laws to comply with our licence, like an annual check of the gas appliances, and a 3 year check on the electrics. However, privately owned caravans can be let, and advertised on the internet if they so wish as long as they comply with the official inspections. Some restrictions are placed on the units by the insurers, but no one tells me what I have to provide for my guests, it is all a question of what I think they would like - and what they tell me they would like!
Peterrayner
18-04-2012, 23:44
How are they doing so far Peter?
IIRC they seem to have exhausted all efforts or nearly all maybe at the Tourismo level and are in the process of appealing directly to the President of the Cabildo.
Meanwhile they've ignored the rout of reviving dormant complexes completely .....
Yes we are subject to certain laws to comply with our licence, like an annual check of the gas appliances, and a 3 year check on the electrics. However, privately owned caravans can be let, and advertised on the internet if they so wish as long as they comply with the official inspections. Some restrictions are placed on the units by the insurers, but no one tells me what I have to provide for my guests, it is all a question of what I think they would like - and what they tell me they would like!
And there is precisely the point.
Your site has to be inspected to ensure certain safety requirements are met. Same as here.
Your site is granted a licence once those matters have been checked and approved. Same as here.
The owners can advertise their own vans to the outside world - or use your services as the site owner/agent - Same as here.
If a van on your site didn't comply with the regs, whatever failed would need to be rectified to make it safe, something that a private owner would need to pay for, or you would need to charge for in order to retain your licence. - Same as here.
As is common with such sites, you are not allowed to let anyone live on your site year round since it is not residential, if you had a pool you would need to have that inspected and comply with any laws regarding safety.
You probably provide some form of ground maintenance service and cleaning, the costs for which you pass on through your fees to the owners. Same as here.
So, you ARE subject to rules and licensing, without which you cannot operate.
Same as here.
Peterrayner
19-04-2012, 09:47
Meanwhile they've ignored the rout of reviving dormant complexes completely .....
Well as I understood it from the meeting they havent simply ignored it but rather their view is that it isnt perhaps has straight forward has you were suggesting. :)
golf birdie
19-04-2012, 09:57
It so happens that Brits are amongst the largest group that come here, but so do the Germans and many many other Europeans where the market is growing and fast.
In Tenerife the Brits make up the highest amount of holiday makers by a distance. The others apart from the Spanish make up the numbers but no where near the number of Brits. I have been hearing for the past 20 years of this growing market in other nationals but I am yet to see it. In fact In my opinion which can be backed by figures from my businesss the number of Germans holidaying here has decreased over the past 5 years.
In Tenerife the Brits make up the highest amount of holiday makers by a distance. The others apart from the Spanish make up the numbers but no where near the number of Brits. I have been hearing for the past 20 years of this growing market in other nationals but I am yet to see it. In fact In my opinion which can be backed by figures from my businesss the number of Germans holidaying here has decreased over the past 5 years.
Not that is is relevant to this discussion as such, technically British tourists account for about a third of all. The Germans are not that far behind.
The real point though, in the context of accomodation, is that you cannot blame a country whose primary industry is tourism, to want to have a say in what is offered and to want to set standards and to make sure that visitors are looked after properly, not just dumped at airports and having to chase around to find keys or someone to speak to in case of emergency.
Nor can you blame those who live and work here for being able to enjoy their lives away (somewhat) from the tourists here partying in their own homes.
Angusjim
19-04-2012, 12:58
Not that is is relevant to this discussion as such, technically British tourists account for about a third of all. The Germans are not that far behind.
The real point though, in the context of accomodation, is that you cannot blame a country whose primary industry is tourism, to want to have a say in what is offered and to want to set standards and to make sure that visitors are looked after properly, not just dumped at airports and having to chase around to find keys or someone to speak to in case of emergency.
Nor can you blame those who live and work here for being able to enjoy their lives away (somewhat) from the tourists here partying in their own homes.
If they care so much about tourism and is their main industry why did it take them 15 years to enforce this law,they have knowingly allowed this to happen to create jobs & collect millions & millions in easy to collect taxes from house sales etc. Would the clamp down ever have started if it had not been for the global financial meltdown I doubt it, I think this clamp down is more about raising much needed money from easy targets from a situation they help create
golf birdie
19-04-2012, 14:05
Not that is is relevant to this discussion as such, technically British tourists account for about a third of all. The Germans are not that far behind.
.
three to one.
Brits need a Billboard outside their apartment to remind them when something is illegal a Law against it is not enough.
They need it drilling into them with a fine to make them believe it.
I'm awaiting the military to stand on the motorway every couple of KM's to shoot you down if you go over the speed limit.
Now that's enforcement
pfft
three to one.
A third equates to 1 in 3, but what point are you actually making?
How or why does it make any difference what nationality a tourist is, a tourist is a tourist and should be afforded the best possible welcome and treatment
Added after 14 minutes:
If they care so much about tourism and is their main industry why did it take them 15 years to enforce this law,they have knowingly allowed this to happen to create jobs & collect millions & millions in easy to collect taxes from house sales etc. Would the clamp down ever have started if it had not been for the global financial meltdown I doubt it, I think this clamp down is more about raising much needed money from easy targets from a situation they help create
To my knowledge they have enforced the law since the outset, although admittedly in not such a ferocious way.
I doubt anyone would disagree that the recent "clampdown" is primarily the result of the economic situation and pressure from Ashotel and others, but as is often the case in most countries of the world, when faced with a crisis, ways are looked for to get out of the mess using law where it provides opportunities to do so.
But, it doesnt matter why the law has not been rigourusly enforced, how much may have been earnt from taxation or anything else - it remains a fact that the law exists and it is now being enforced - no matter how easy the target might be - think CSA in the UK
golf birdie
19-04-2012, 16:20
A third equates to 1 in 3, but what point are you actually making?
1 in 3 compared to the Brits or 1.5 million to 500,000. The point my dear friend is some people seem to think the Brits don't matter here and could easily be replaced by the up and coming markets which is pie in the sky.
As far asI can make out Brits make up about 1/3rd of tourist trade in tenerife Spanish/canarian nearly !/3rd Germans 1/9th and the other 2/9ths are made up of the rest of the world
the Russians who everyone goes on about are approx115000/120000 tourists no less than 2% of total
these are supposedly 2010/2011 official figures
So I think the Brits are still a major factor
Angusjim
19-04-2012, 16:53
A third equates to 1 in 3, but what point are you actually making?
How or why does it make any difference what nationality a tourist is, a tourist is a tourist and should be afforded the best possible welcome and treatment
Added after 14 minutes:
To my knowledge they have enforced the law since the outset, although admittedly in not such a ferocious way.
I doubt anyone would disagree that the recent "clampdown" is primarily the result of the economic situation and pressure from Ashotel and others, but as is often the case in most countries of the world, when faced with a crisis, ways are looked for to get out of the mess using law where it provides opportunities to do so.
But, it doesnt matter why the law has not been rigourusly enforced, how much may have been earnt from taxation or anything else - it remains a fact that the law exists and it is now being enforced - no matter how easy the target might be - think CSA in the UK
So why bang about them trying to improve the standards when its all about "gies yer money" only time will tell if this clampdown helps or creates more problems for the tourists and owners
hackney58
19-04-2012, 16:55
Just booked 4 weeks holiday Tenerife near PS3 same apartment i have stayed in for last 14 years.
we have dealt with the owner for so long we even exchange Christman cards.
her appartment is fully booked by regular customers over the year and has no need to advertise.
all facilitate's on complex including life guard for pool area and night security,
most of the tourist are over 50 and a strict rule oF silence at night as not to disturb residents.
Everybody happy and never any problems. Long may it last.
Just booked 4 weeks holiday Tenerife near PS3 same apartment i have stayed in for last 14 years.
we have dealt with the owner for so long we even exchange Christman cards.
her appartment is fully booked by regular customers over the year and has no need to advertise.
all facilitate's on complex including life guard for pool area and night security,
most of the tourist are over 50 and a strict rule oF silence at night as not to disturb residents.
Everybody happy and never any problems. Long may it last.
Long may it last ??
Depends whether PS3 is touristic or not - if it isn't, it's illegal for her to let it out for holiday lets; if it is and she isn't involving the onsite agent, it's illegal, and if there isn't an onsite agent it's illegal.
Read this thread for all the information
It's illegal to RENT COMMERCIALLY right ?
So renting NON COMMERCIALLY is OK right ?
So why bang about them trying to improve the standards when its all about "gies yer money" only time will tell if this clampdown helps or creates more problems for the tourists and owners
I'm not banging on about anything. The law says it is illegal to let residential accomodation to the tourist market. Those doing the "banging" are either those who have been caught out and fined, or those who have been illegally renting and lining owners pockets with pound notes on arrival, both of which are against the law in this country.
I can understand why the Government of this country wishes to maintain some control of what happens here - kinda makes sense to me. There is an argument that parts of the law could do with a review here and there making it easier, for example, to oust a letting agent when it is clear there are issues, but allowing a free for all is not the way forward.
Is there much between the Canarian Government looking for ways to collect money in then the UK Government looking to stop those with too much money offloading it into fake charities to avoid tax?
Not really, the beauty of being in charge is you can make the rules.
Its OK to stay anywhere as long as you have lots of uncles :wink2::tiphat::whistle:
Its OK to stay anywhere as long as you have lots of uncles :wink2::tiphat::whistle:
Apparently that is actually highly debatable point as the law does not actually contain any reference to friends and family - that is apparently a brit invention to try and circumvent the law.
Apparently that is actually highly debatable point as the law does not actually contain any reference to friends and family - that is apparently a brit invention to try and circumvent the law.
Very true, but it's yet to be tested. Illegal letting will carry on. It's too big a job to eradicate it. This whole situation is taking on a "Robin Hood" scenario.
I think Hackney's point was that despite what's said on here, he's managed to get himself 4 illegal weeks.
Does it make it ok? Certainly does for him. And many more like him!
Apparently that is actually highly debatable point as the law does not actually contain any reference to friends and family - that is apparently a brit invention to try and circumvent the law.
My tongue was firmly in my cheek Bob!
Lets be honest no one gives a dam about whether its legal or not its about money the Cabildo thinks its fines will bring in a lot of money (even if its a one off watch as the funds start to dry up the law will be relaxed again for a few years so that the same thing can be done again)
The hotel owners they will hopefully make more money
The main sufferers will be the poor tourists being asked to pay more for their holidays but after all they can afford to pay up can't they ??????????
But lets not mention it there are a lot of other countries out there all desperate for tourists whos tourist boards are rubbing their hands and getting geared up to tell the tourist come to us we're cheaper better etc and we all know for a huge number of people price matters
So lets hope that we don't see empty streets ( but don't hold your breath)
My tongue was firmly in my cheek Bob!
I know
We have just had 10 illegal days booked direct without going through any agent
A far bigger problem for Tenerife now is going to be the price of flights. I've looked for October half-term and cheapest from Gatwick is well over £400 compared to £250 this Easter. Ryanair from Stansted aren't up yet but are usually slightly higher then EasyJet
Added after 3 minutes:
Very true, but it's yet to be tested. Illegal letting will carry on. It's too big a job to eradicate it. This whole situation is taking on a "Robin Hood" scenario.
I think Hackney's point was that despite what's said on here, he's managed to get himself 4 illegal weeks.
Does it make it ok? Certainly does for him. And many more like him!
What's to be tested ??
The law does not actually say anything anywhere about Friends and Family. It defines what constitutes a tourist and nothing else.
What's to be tested ??
The law does not actually say anything anywhere about Friends and Family. It defines what constitutes a tourist and nothing else.[/QUOTE]
I know, but it's another spanner in the works when people start saying they're related. It'll hold the courts up even longer than they are already. It would take a lot of proving otherwise. They would have to physically catch the punter in the apartment and get their details. So far they've only hit on the obvious easy targets who foolishly advertise their crime for all to see.
1 in 3 compared to the Brits or 1.5 million to 500,000. The point my dear friend is some people seem to think the Brits don't matter here and could easily be replaced by the up and coming markets which is pie in the sky.
OK
So we have established that the British tourist accounts for about a third of those who come here, but I still fail to understand, my dear friend, what point you are making.
Are you saying that because the British tourists are the (or among the) largest contingent of visitors, the letting laws should be altered?
Why?
This is a country which governs itself. If they want to make laws they are fully entitled to do so. If we (Brits) choose to live here or visit here for our jollies, we are obliged to obey those laws or take the consequences - however daft, silly or stupid they may be.
If you feel the Canaries should be taking the quirks of the rest of the world into account when making their laws, the next campaign will surely be to have HP sauce exempted from import duty and IGIC, German sausages likewise, and, perhaps maybe one day, even Vodka (now there's a thought).
An association for the removal of IGIC and duty on Vodka !!
golf birdie
19-04-2012, 18:48
The tenerife holiday offer is not just open to tourists from the UK though.
It so happens that Brits are amongst the largest group that come here, but so do the Germans and many many other Europeans where the market is growing and fast.
the point was in answer to your post. The Brits are not amongst the largest group, they are the largest group. As for the fast growing markets, where???? As I said in my experience the German market is falling, with more and more traveling to Thailand. Apart from the Spanish market the rest are hardly on the radar.
hackney58
19-04-2012, 18:53
Depends whether PS3 is touristic or not - if it isn't, it's illegal for her to let it out for holiday lets; if it is and she isn't involving the onsite agent, it's illegal, and if there isn't an onsite agent it's illegal.
Read this thread for all the information[/QUOTE]
In reply to a tourist complex being legal a must have just the one agent.
PS3 has a tourist licence but how can it have a sole agent when you can book a holiday there using Thomas Cook, Thompsons Holidays, or Travel Republic.
You can also book direct with any apartment owner or through the P.S.3 web site.
Conclusion P.S.3 must be an illegal tourist complex!!!!
[QUOTE=BobMac;168361]Long may it last ??
Actually Hackney, your post said "near PS3" rather than in it.
I've long considered PS3 to be legal. I could be wrong?
hackney58
19-04-2012, 20:49
You are correct Toto99 I did say near as I didn’t want to give the name of the complex as it would create problems for them. But it is close enough to make a point.
As for the P.S.3 I used to stay there years ago before I found the apartment we now stay in
The PS3 are good apartments but unless you book direct with an owner you do not know which apartment you will get. The point I was making is there seems to be a number of ways to make a booking there without going through a sole agent.
Going back to the apartment I have booked and it will probably apply to other owners who rent out illegally is that not only do I get the apartment I want, but also the owner gets the type of person they want .
E.G. Older and more responsible. Both parties win.
This is not a cost cutting exercise, we could stay in the La Siesta half board for less than the money we spend on food and drink!!!
PS3 is legal and Hackney brings up a good point re this sole agent garbage! I would say PS3 is a flagship apartment complex in one of the best locations for everything a holidaymaker needs! As is PS1 & PS2, Could someone enlighten me as how the sole agent is supposed to work on such a complex when you can book it with most of the major tour operators???
PS3 is legal and Hackney brings up a good point re this sole agent garbage! I would say PS3 is a flagship apartment complex in one of the best locations for everything a holidaymaker needs! As is PS1 & PS2, Could someone enlighten me as how the sole agent is supposed to work on such a complex when you can book it with most of the major tour operators???
1and 2 are not touristic there residential confirmed to me by the administrator for ps2. David
Santiago
19-04-2012, 21:42
There not touristic there residential confirmed to me by the administrator for ps2. David
PS1 and PS2 are residential. PS3,4,and 5 are touristic - as per the info from CIM.
1and 2 are not touristic there residential confirmed to me by the administrator for ps2. David
Sorry David we have crossed wires,I knew PS1 and 2 were residential as i have friends who live there,All i was trying to get across is i think they should be classed as touristic considering they are frontline and have probably had more tourists staying there than most of any complex in the South! I also realise that it is illegal for owners to rent them out but i wouldn't be breaking any laws if i stayed there for a week or two!
canary boy
25-04-2012, 09:03
:eyebrows:Interesting BBC report this morning on how all inclusive hotel deals are having such a detrimental affect on the local economy
http://travel.aol.co.uk/2012/04/10/smelly-people-are-the-worst-fellow-passengers-says-survey/#photo-6
According to Travel AOL
Playing the superior traveller
If you've ever uttered the words 'oh, I'm not a tourist, I'm a traveller', you are most likely the kind of extremely annoying person who considers yourself morally and culturally superior because you've never stayed in a hotel listed in a guidebook. No matter how far off grid you go, how many henna tattoos you get and how many famous sights you actively avoid visiting, if you're travelling in a foreign country, you're still a tourist. End of.
golf birdie
25-04-2012, 09:59
:eyebrows:Interesting BBC report this morning on how all inclusive hotel deals are having such a detrimental affect on the local economy
The hotel owners are also saying they should be exempt from the rise in tax thats just been brought in.
bonitatime
25-04-2012, 11:34
The hotel owners are also saying they should be exempt from the rise in tax thats just been brought in.
Their difficulty is they have forward contracts which are at fixed rates and these are not negotiable their profit margins are therefore decreased and they are too small at the best of times with large agencies
golf birdie
25-04-2012, 13:20
Their difficulty is they have forward contracts which are at fixed rates and these are not negotiable their profit margins are therefore decreased and they are too small at the best of times with large agencies
if most of them never went down the AI route they would not be so hard done by. They have sold their product whilst not having control over the costs of what they were selling.
That and all the illegal stuff out there...
golf birdie
25-04-2012, 13:29
Thats and all the illegal stuff out there...
maybe if they gave the clients what they wanted they would be better off. I live near a large hotel and also an illegal complex and all I ever hear is complaints about the hotel, never the illegal place.
if most of them never went down the AI route they would not be so hard done by. They have sold their product whilst not having control over the costs of what they were selling.
I can't see how being AI or Normal would make any difference - hotels generally sell a year ahead as the prices are required for brochures.
Will be interesting though to see if they do win any concessions regarding IGIC and the other taxes from the Government, will be an indicator of the strength of their influence in high places.
What's the betting they are succesful !
maybe if they gave the clients what they wanted they would be better off. I live near a large hotel and also an illegal complex and all I ever hear is complaints about the hotel, never the illegal place.
One woman can only hear so much
golf birdie
25-04-2012, 15:46
I can't see how being AI or Normal would make any difference - hotels generally sell a year ahead as the prices are required for brochures.
Will be interesting though to see if they do win any concessions regarding IGIC and the other taxes from the Government, will be an indicator of the strength of their influence in high places.
What's the betting they are succesful !
because they have sold their product with food and drink included. They cannot now raise their prices as they could if the food and drink were extras. With the cost of transport going up the price for all these things will as well.
ally9997
25-04-2012, 16:08
i don t know about billboards but tourists should be able to see in LIST of illegal complexes so they know whats what!!
i don t know about billboards but tourists should be able to see in LIST of illegal complexes so they know whats what!!
You've more chance of Hell freezing over than getting an accurate list.
Even the Tourist Board list of legal complexes isn't totally complete.
ally9997
25-04-2012, 16:20
so have they actually got list even if incomplete?
I can't see how being AI or Normal would make any difference - hotels generally sell a year ahead as the prices are required for brochures.
Will be interesting though to see if they do win any concessions regarding IGIC and the other taxes from the Government, will be an indicator of the strength of their influence in high places.
What's the betting they are succesful !
It will be very interesting to see if their influence gets them what they want. At the end of the day we are starting to see what myself and others have predicted. A downturn in tourists due to private renters pulling internet ads, and now the hotel boom due to Egypt/N africa troubles is over. There is no evidence that the displaced private apartment customers are now going to book into tenerife hotels. The result is a downturn for the canary economy, as everyone predicted.
This is the problem with protectionism. You have to feel sorry for the hotels, its hard work in a crissis making a profit , what with big holiday companies demanding low rates etc. But at the end of the day its a case of how far down can the hotels expect to take the rest of the resort in their quest for protectionism? How much damage to the canary economy and employment are the canary government going to support before doing a u turn on this one?
so have they actually got list even if incomplete?
Have a look HERE (http://www.todotenerife.es/en/turismo) and HERE (http://www.webtenerife.com/) - these are two lists I know of, if I find others I'll post them
You will have to bear in mind that the lists are neither complete nor completely accurate.
Just because the complex isn't on the lists doesn't mean it is an illegal complex for holiday rentals and conversely if it is on the lists it doesn't necessarily follow that it is legal.
Red Devil
25-04-2012, 17:11
so have they actually got list even if incomplete?
Who, the Tourist Board with list of residential complexes? - No
With full list of tourist complexes? - No
With list of tourist complexes where no one is operating outside the law by advertising their apartments privately instead of through the recognised agent? - No
Not much help are they really.
I was looking for Nelsons apartment but can't find it....
TenerifePool
25-04-2012, 17:29
I was looking for Nelsons apartment but can't find it....
Found it..!
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Santa+Cruz+de+Tenerife,+Espa%C3%B1a&hl=es&ie=UTF8&ll=28.464296,-16.249734&spn=0.002485,0.004823&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.642161,79.013672&oq=santa+cruz&hnear=Santa+Cruz+de+Tenerife,+Islas+Canarias,+Espa %C3%B1a&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=28.464276,-16.249629&panoid=JzZh3f0ZlxD9D3NKxy46Uw&cbp=12,14.62,,0,12.12
ally9997
25-04-2012, 17:33
that was very useful, i was wondering if andalucia apartments on the paradise club/ club las costa was legal can t see it
on list. i see paradise of course i heard that the owners were told to take down their signs for letting on their balconys.
as i always thought it was legal.
Found it..!
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Santa+Cruz+de+Tenerife,+Espa%C3%B1a&hl=es&ie=UTF8&ll=28.464296,-16.249734&spn=0.002485,0.004823&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.642161,79.013672&oq=santa+cruz&hnear=Santa+Cruz+de+Tenerife,+Islas+Canarias,+Espa %C3%B1a&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=28.464276,-16.249629&panoid=JzZh3f0ZlxD9D3NKxy46Uw&cbp=12,14.62,,0,12.12
Nicely Kept
Nicely Kept
ha ha, well after a rainy afternoon in yorkshire like today has been, I think that a nice sun chair outside casanelson might not be too bad a spot.
Just to add to what people have posted about lists of legal/ illegal apartments, our complex is on arona councils list of legal tourist apartments. Obviously there is no sole agent or has been a majority one for many years.
This crackdown is not meant to get people from illegal apartments to legal ones, the idea is to get them from illegal apartments to hotels. Trouble is that as we all know well , that was never going to happen. ProIts blem now is the detruction of canary tourism in a world wide crissis, in the vain attempt by the hotels to get more punters.Its protectionism on a grand scale, mad economics.
I advise sole agent legal apartment people not to crow about extra bookings, the hotels never wanted that to happen, they may come after you next before this gets sorted out.
You always make me smile nelson thats a fine quality in a woman, you should be proud.
The crackdown is to slow just like all the other crackdowns the Canarian & Spanish Governments are enforcing. It's not to move all tourists into Hotels but it is to move than as much as possible into legal accommodation.
Thats what the Law says anyhow. Illegal to commerically rent to tourists in non authorised premises.
Nelson is a woman????
A Lady i'll have you know
cheers
x
Einhorn is finkel.... Finkel is Einhorn...
A Lady i'll have you know
cheers
x
Is that like a David Walliams Laydee?
delderek
11-05-2012, 14:48
Could this make Turismo think again?
May 11 (Reuters) - Spain plans to make its rental market more flexible as part of its drive to push banks to sell their real estate portfolios, the public works minister said on Friday.
Could this make Turismo think again?
May 11 (Reuters) - Spain plans to make its rental market more flexible as part of its drive to push banks to sell their real estate portfolios, the public works minister said on Friday.
probabley not. This just shows that in spain the building interest groups have more clout with the new government than the hotel lobby over there. So there you have it they are going to encourage private renting to help the building industry. in the canaries turismo are batting for the hotels in hand with the government, they dont care about the good of the entire economy, just hotel protectionism. dont think they will change their view to legally forced at europe level.
Could this make Turismo think again?
May 11 (Reuters) - Spain plans to make its rental market more flexible as part of its drive to push banks to sell their real estate portfolios, the public works minister said on Friday.
Interesting piece of news...!
Could this make Turismo think again?
May 11 (Reuters) - Spain plans to make its rental market more flexible as part of its drive to push banks to sell their real estate portfolios, the public works minister said on Friday.
You couldn't make it up!:crazy:
canary boy
11-05-2012, 22:04
:crylaughing::crylaughing::crylaughing::cry::cry:: cry::duh::duh:??????:stupid::bootyshake::bootyshak e::gun::gun::argue::argue::wall::wall::wall::titan ic::titanic:
:hi:
Does anyone have any news yet regarding the holiday lettings situation in Tenerife South area please?
:pray:
Harmonicaman
20-05-2012, 17:57
Someone should start a thread on this...
They could call it the Tenerife Illegal lettings thread!:idea:
Harmonicaman
20-05-2012, 18:18
Sorry Krizzy, just joking. If you care to have a trawl through this lot you'll probably find what you're looking for. http://www.tenerifeforum.org/tenerife-forum/showthread.php?23-The-Tenerife-illegal-lettings-thread
:hi:
Does anyone have any news yet regarding the holiday lettings situation in Tenerife South area please?
:pray:
Hi Krizzy, do a "search" and I think you might find some info on the subject. Don't mind these other cliquey people. :wink:
Hi Krizzy, do a "search" and I think you might find some info on the subject. Don't mind these other cliquey people. :wink:
There's no real news in the last few weeks ... most of the debate has moved over to Janet ******** 's website - good idea to google her name
T
delderek
20-05-2012, 22:33
There's no real news in the last few weeks ... most of the debate has moved over to Janet ******** 's website - good idea to google her name.
T
How come you managed to mention her name without it getting filtered out, or you being charged with "High Treason":whistle:
It seems logical to direct people to Janet's website, del: as she is a founding member of the Association, she will have any news first ... and really, to bring it all up again over here without new "news" doesn't serve much purpose (the same goes for The Past :))
welshman
22-05-2012, 20:27
I hear the ***** is still hitting the fan for illegal rental owners. Tourist No,s are down employment up !!! bars struggling to servive banks needing bail, owners unable to sell. Whats going to happen next any ideas.
I hear the ***** is still hitting the fan for illegal rental owners. Tourist No,s are down employment up !!! bars struggling to servive banks needing bail, owners unable to sell. Whats going to happen next any ideas.
My guess is that they will mess it up a little bit more. What is it about politicians and a lack of business acumen? They should make sure that all politicians have had some real world experience other than giving out leaflets in the last political rally.
Those who could do a good job for the country are too busy doing a good job for themselves.Politicians ,in general ,are like civil servants,they couldn't survive in the real world and who else would employ them?
I hear the ***** is still hitting the fan for illegal rental owners. Tourist No,s are down employment up !!! bars struggling to servive banks needing bail, owners unable to sell. Whats going to happen next any ideas.
what we are going to see is a classic spanish political/ economic drama. The canary government is acting at the request of the hotels and is cracking down on so called illegal ,private renting, their logic being that this will create more customers for the struggling legal hotels. As we have all posted , this was never likely to happen, the internet apartment customers not being prepared to book into tenerife hotels when the private apartments ceased to be available. Now with the fall off in hotel customers, due to the re emergence of Egypt /N africa resorts post revolution , the canary government is faced with the reality that hotel visitors are siinificantly down and due to their attack on private renting they have themselves engineered a massive downturn in visitor numbers in that sector of tourism. In spain throughout history, even before the dictatorship, government was not consenual, there often was a polarisation of opinion and certain interest groups got their way to have government policy work for them against the best interests of the majority.
The canary government have acted in this issue from the beginning only in the interest of the hotels, we would all argue that this was wrong from the start and would not necesarily help the hotels at all. For them now to do a u turn and accept their error is asking a lot. For them to reform the law and introduce a legal permited renting system like portugal is asking a lot also. If the canary government wants to stay true to the worst examples of spanish cronism government, then we can expect no change from them on this issue at all. They will sit back back throughout this growing desolate summer of tourism and watch visitor numbers decline, restuarants/bars/shops close. next thing the likes of ryan air/jet 2 will be pulling slots as they will be short of customers. With all that happening the canary government will still do nothing, despite the suffering of the canary people and the canary economy. Despite the fact that in so far as the private apartments is concerned, the decline is entirely self inflicted by them and down to their suicidal actions.
This is a classic spanish political/economic mess. The canary government have cuddled up to the hotels, without thought for the sensible justification for doing that, now the mess they have created is evident, but how can you expect such people to admit they were wrong and now do a u turn ? If they do that now it sort of begs the question who was stupid enough to do this policy in the first place, then it begs the question who wanted to help the hotels so much and what was their personal motivation for doing this? What properbly will happen now is things will get worse fast but the canary government will carry on with the crackdown and pray that visitors return to the hotels to get them off the hook. Meanwhile the resorts are going to be savged and canary economy take a massive tumble.
The problem is the worse it gets the more unlikely that the canary government will dare to try to admit the error and sort it out.
When are you moving to Portugal?
marydoll56
23-05-2012, 09:13
I wholeheartedly agree with everything you say, let's hope beyond hope that they see sense before it's too late, I love Tenerife, but I have started to go other places if I cannot get to the accommodation I want, I do not want to go back to hotels having experienced quality private lets.
Thank you for putting it so clearly, without any hidden agenda or malice!
No hidden agenda ? Apart from Nelson owning 2 apartments which she rented out until she got a fine?
Ok not so hidden , but an agenda no less.
There are still plenty of accommodation alternatives to hotels, legal apartments spring to mind....
When are you moving to Portugal?
Why is Nelson so fixated with Portugal ??
Does she own property there as well ??
Peterrayner
23-05-2012, 15:18
No hidden agenda ? Apart from Nelson owning 2 apartments which she rented out until she got a fine?
Ok not so hidden , but an agenda no less.
There are still plenty of accommodation alternatives to hotels, legal apartments spring to mind....
Plenty has you say but perhaps still not enough. :)
golf birdie
23-05-2012, 15:21
There are still plenty of accommodation alternatives to hotels, legal apartments spring to mind....
do you have a two bed with sea views for xmas, 21st Dec for two weeks? Let me know as I have clients looking.
Goforgold
23-05-2012, 16:00
Plenty as you say but perhaps still not enough. :) And not where we have got used to going and enjoy :( - looks like it will be Portugal for me too after this holiday :(
Plenty has you say but perhaps still not enough. :)
its not just about available accomodation. People have a free choice and will stay where they want to. many existing customers who normally stay at a certain complex , they are unwilling to be brow beaten to go somewhere else. People are voting with their feet on this. tourismo might have to consider hyjacking planes at uk airports and bringing tourists to their hotels at gun point !! that could get em some customers back.
do you have a two bed with sea views for xmas, 21st Dec for two weeks? Let me know as I have clients looking.
No probs, inbox me
I would hope that someone comes back to me and tells me the exact apartments that I can rent in Adeje that are legal and do not cause any problems for the owners or myself.Time is getting short for me due to illness and the last thing that I would want for myself and OH is hastle,please let me know,thank you.
I would hope that someone comes back to me and tells me the exact apartments that I can rent in Adeje that are legal and do not cause any problems for the owners or myself.Time is getting short for me due to illness and the last thing that I would want for myself and OH is hastle,please let me know,thank you.
You can rent any apartment without you getting into trouble you are doing nothing wrong by doing so its the owners of residential apartments who holiday let that that can get fined.
You can rent any apartment without you getting into trouble you are doing nothing wrong by doing so its the owners of residential apartments who holiday let that that can get fined.
At last I have a positive reply,thank you,but it still worries me that I could have problems in renting and would also hope that someone come back to me and tells me the best apartments that I can rent without any hills,many thanks.
Easy answer is look on booking.com , you have to provide them with your license number to appear on it so guaranteed no illegal apartments
Easy answer is look on booking.com , you have to provide them with your license number to appear on it so guaranteed no illegal apartments
Blinkin heck Loaded you mean the face of internet booking has changed already shock horror i bet no one else will do the same.
Easy answer is look on booking.com , you have to provide them with your license number to appear on it so guaranteed no illegal apartments
You mean they are actually checking those license numbers or any old one works?
iughvdaoibQWhvzsfoihvaFDFslknfgzlxkjcgfsoirjGDFBDg oidugq03487384t9ruw08reqe09toirhvxjcniuzdhvoisdrhg IODHVSO8VoidrhgopidhfvoiphzdroirJGDAKU8963896KLHVD Fvmoierfhgopiasdhgfiojdriogh - Las Americas
XX
You mean they are actually checking those license numbers or any old one works?
Well I don't see any "yucca parks" on there that's for sure....
Shugstar63
24-05-2012, 11:01
Looking for an illegal apartment for a week around 22 June.....anyone know who can help?
Torviscas Bajo....Please:liar:
Shugstar63
24-05-2012, 16:21
Nope.................I'm from Scotland !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Thanks for asking !
jogger321
24-05-2012, 18:25
Well I don't see any "yucca parks" on there that's for sure....
Well I stand totally vindicated about Yucca Park
Ex John Palmer time share that was flogged off 4-5 years ago... I remember being called all things under the sun by a now defunct Estate Agents when I walked away from a purchase there because I told him I wasn't buying it because it would be illegal to rent it out on a commercial basis to tourists ..I remember him calling me a "total prat" as I walked off....
Well I stand totally vindicated about Yucca Park
Ex John Palmer time share that was flogged off 4-5 years ago... I remember being called all things under the sun by a now defunct Estate Agents when I walked away from a purchase there because I told him I wasn't buying it because it would be illegal to rent it out on a commercial basis to tourists ..I remember him calling me a "total prat" as I walked off....
Sounds like you made a very wise choice, that place is a mess now
Is Palmer still on bail ? or is he still in the game ? Did have a look at Yucca Apartments,not to my taste.
No idea, probably out now
seanocelt
25-05-2012, 10:15
owns a 1 bed in Costamar.
Is Palmer still on bail ? or is he still in the game ? Did have a look at Yucca Apartments,not to my taste.
They have the internet in prison you know. Probably safest to refer to him as M.r Palmer.
Also, given your screen name, aren't you related? :laugh:
I hear the ***** is still hitting the fan for illegal rental owners. Tourist No,s are down employment up !!! bars struggling to servive banks needing bail, owners unable to sell. Whats going to happen next any ideas.
I don't think the airlines are helping Tenerife's cause either
Prices for October half term holiday are through the roof now - we came out in the Easter holiday and paid just over £1000 for 4 adults, at the October half term we're looking at over £1800 for 4 adults.
They have the internet in prison you know. Probably safest to refer to him as M.r Palmer.
Also, given your screen name, aren't you related? :laugh:
Funny wee man eh !
I don't think the airlines are helping Tenerife's cause either
Prices for October half term holiday are through the roof now - we came out in the Easter holiday and paid just over £1000 for 4 adults, at the October half term we're looking at over £1800 for 4 adults.
We are over in 4 weeks time and our flights are £600 for 2 adults. Last September they were £350 ! Uncle Mick taking the Mick ??
We are over in 4 weeks time and our flights are £600 for 2 adults. Last September they were £350 ! Uncle Mick taking the Mick ??
Apparently Uncle Mick's prices for October won't be out for at least 2 weeks yet
Hi
Trying to find out if I have been fined for unknowingly letting illegally to recover ongoing costs. I have entered my NIE number into google but it comes up with nothing useful. What am I doing incorrectly? Is there another simple way of knowing if you have a fine outstanding?
delderek
25-05-2012, 19:13
Hi
Trying to find out if I have been fined for unknowingly letting illegally to recover ongoing costs. I have entered my NIE number into google but it comes up with nothing useful. What am I doing incorrectly? Is there another simple way of knowing if you have a fine outstanding?
Suggest you visit janet anscomb site, you will find some links
over generous unemployment benefit,is now coming to an end for many jobless home owners,property prices will half due to a glut of repossesions.sell up,problem sorted
delderek
25-05-2012, 19:37
over generous unemployment benefit,is now coming to an end for many jobless home owners,property prices will half due to a glut of repossesions.sell up,problem sorted
Blimey Tony, we agree on something at last:whistle:
http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/display/playlistref/250512/clipid/250512_SPAIN_25
junglejim
26-05-2012, 01:46
Hi
Trying to find out if I have been fined for unknowingly letting illegally to recover ongoing costs. I have entered my NIE number into google but it comes up with nothing useful. What am I doing incorrectly? Is there another simple way of knowing if you have a fine outstanding?
Go onto this link (Official Boletin Site) -type your name or complex in Texto and press Buscar , it will come up with any boletin applicable to you or your complex .( In Spanish)
http://www.gobiernodecanarias.org/boc/busqueda.html
ally9997
26-05-2012, 13:48
does anyone know if andulucia is legal at the parodise club torviscas? i know they have been told to take done for rent signs on their balcony etc
thanks
ally
The reason why I think the law will not be changed:
I don't think the Canarian Government sees the tourist trade as something that we all "muck in" on. They don't envisage every tom, **** and harry who owns a property to be the public face of Tenerifes tourist accommodation. They want the entire process to be of a professional nature and quality experience. I know some will say; "but we've had amazing reviews of our property from guests and it's been made into a luxury pad of the highest standards." - This may be the case but what about the rest of the experience? How did the client pay? was it an easy and secure card transaction or was it cash on arrival or similar? Is the client insured with public liability insurance should there be a claim after an accident at the apartments or in the apartment? Are there staff permantly available to the customer in the event of problems? How can a client complain if they feel they have been mistreated?
As far as the "anti competitive" argument, I think if you go up a level of thinking you'll realise that the Canarian Government have not created an anti competitive law, they just don't see the competition as being down at an "owner vs owner level" - it's at a "hotel/apartment complex vs hotel/apartment complex level". I honestly don't think the Canarian Government think it's relevant to provide a choice as to which Reception (exploitation license holder) on one complex you sign up to - it's more of a case of; "so you own on a complex that has a license; enjoy the benefits of that and go to the license holder - OR sell up and go to as different complex if you don't like that company and want another choice".
The industry is protected by the Canarian government, and rightly so. This is not the only industry in the world that recieves protection, for example:
Taxi's : you cannot drive a taxi without a license from the councel (and of course a higher skilled driving license). The number of taxi drivers are limited so that the ones who are in that profession are not over saturated with rival drivers and ths making a pitance. Similarly the taxi drivers react vociferously to anyone they think may be doing an illegal run as this is taking business away from them and their hard work.
In the UK gas registered servicemen are required to carry out repairs, this despite some people knowing how to do it perfectly safely without the qualifications. While also promoting greater safety, this protects the tradesman too.
In Tenerife you can't get a new Boletin for your electrics unless the Electrician is a real one, this despite many people knowing perfectly well what they're doing with electrics. This prevents all and sundry from doing jobs that electricians have trained and set up to do.
When importing goods you have to pay IGIC on the value of the goods to ensure a higher sale value of the goods in the company you are selling them in. This protects home grown businesses sourcing local products from outside competition.
Sorry if this annoyed you. I only wanted to ask the question not to start a thread :) I'm blonde.......
Sorry if this annoyed you. I only wanted to ask the question not to start a thread :) I'm blonde.......
??????????????
Leam_Lin
29-05-2012, 09:30
??????????????
Krizzy had posted about illegal lettings (can't find the post)but there were a couple of sarky replies!
seanocelt
29-05-2012, 12:26
Krizzy had posted about illegal lettings (can't find the post)but there were a couple of sarky replies!
On this forum? NO WAY!!
Krizzy had posted about illegal lettings (can't find the post)but there were a couple of sarky replies!
Nothing changes - does it !!
Hi Guys! :hi:
Nice to talk with you again.
Just thought I'd drop in and see what has been going on in the last few weeks. After all, it's 18 months now since the authorities announced they were taking on loads of new inspectors to stop all holiday lets in residential properties in the Canaries. But I see nothing has happened - no one has been shown to have paid any fines, and the number of properties being advertised continues to rise each month - a small reduction in Tenerife. No surprise there then, unless you believed it all in the first place of course.
But visitor numbers in Tenerife are down because lots of properties have been taken off the rental market, I hear some say. Then maybe you can explain why visitor numbers are also down by around the same amount on ALL the islands, including Fuerteventura and Lanzarote, where there have been no fines, and where more new properties continue to come onto the holiday rental market every week. The reduction in visitor numbers has nothing to do with this subject.
Latest figures show an INCREASE of 651 properties in the Canaries coming onto the 3 main rental websites since early January 2012, 1431 MORE properties since Feb 2011. Yet many on here and elsewhere still believe the authorities are numpties and are intent on destroying the Canarian economy.
The clampdown continues.
Welcome back hughsyb .......,,:
Where's you been - we've missed you
my sis and bro inlaw tried to book an apartment on el mirador last week to be with us in october but there was not one advertised on any hols rental site, as opposed to 20-30 a few years ago, we have just got back last week and know there are at least 40-50 apartments to let but they have just been taken off because owners are to scared to advertise them, i tried to get some letting details off the vice president on the complex we stay on and he gave me the 3rd degree? and we have known him for 4 years now he has even taken us back to the airport??? but he said they have started planting people in bars as a honey trap to try and find out info on people letting illegally,it really is getting scary
Goforgold
30-05-2012, 21:15
Someone told me this week, that friends of theirs were grilled by the President at Graciosa LC.
jogger321
30-05-2012, 21:43
Someone told me this week, that friends of theirs were grilled by the President at Graciosa LC.
I heard too that a few people were stopped by the authorities their cameras taken from them, films removed and pierced a few times and they were threatened with being put in a microwave for three minutes..all because they were holiday makers looking to stay in illegal complexes :D
delderek
30-05-2012, 22:11
Playa Graciosa, were one of the first Residential complexes, to have a strictly no tourist policy, going back at least 12 years, and I believe denuncia's were made that long ago.
seanocelt
31-05-2012, 01:30
I heard too that a few people were stopped by the authorities their cameras taken from them, films removed and pierced a few times and they were threatened with being put in a microwave for three minutes..all because they were holiday makers looking to stay in illegal complexes :D
Ha Ha get outta here. I have actually noticed an INCREASE in tourists on El Mirador lately, but many have been Spanish, maybe they dont care about the clampdown. Maybe they are owners like Hughsyb.............. Teflon Empressas.
Goforgold
31-05-2012, 07:44
I heard too that a few people were stopped by the authorities their cameras taken from them, films removed and pierced a few times and they were threatened with being put in a microwave for three minutes..all because they were holiday makers looking to stay in illegal complexes :D
Make a joke of it if you like, but what I put, did actually happen.
presidents vary in their attitude, ours would have offered them a good deal on airport transfers.
Goforgold
31-05-2012, 17:02
presidents vary in their attitude, ours would have offered them a good deal on airport transfers.
That's ok, but it's knowing which Presidents have that attitude and Presidents change along with their attitudes ;)
I am just joking, its more of a private joke , our president is a great bloke, lives on the complex most of the year, and yes he would do the airport transfers.
As I have said before our complex is a model for private renting. We have 80 apartments , 60 rented out, 10 swallows who dont rent and 10 proper residents. Everyone gets by fine, the place needs the renters to keep up the community fees . It was originally touristic but has no sole agent nowadays, and no one wants one. There is no sane reason why the canary government should seek to attack our place and the others like it. still change will come, and we might as well keep a sense of humour. Sorry for any offence caused.
golf birdie
31-05-2012, 17:39
I am just joking, its more of a private joke , our president is a great bloke, lives on the complex most of the year, and yes he would do the airport transfers.
I¡m sure he will thank you when the taxi drivers are knocking his door at 2 in the morning;)
Goforgold
31-05-2012, 17:57
I am just joking, its more of a private joke , our president is a great bloke, lives on the complex most of the year, and yes he would do the airport transfers.
.
No offence taken Nelson, hence the winkies!! ;)
Good old president swallow giving all the tourists an alternate to those inferior legal ways of getting to the airport.... Not everyone wants a taxi / shuttle bus / mini bus / public bus / limousine..... Thank god he's there providing yet another valuable alternative for these overly particular tourists .
Praise be
carol & steve
31-05-2012, 22:47
I'm sure no-one wants to get to the airport by lots of the rip-off taxi drivers......so good on the president I say.:)
So because of a few bad bad eggs Every taxi driver in Tenerife will rip you off ? In spite of you being able to agree the fare beforehand and even buy pre paid tickets? In spite of all of the alternative ways to get there too?
Sounds like there is no real concern towards the Canarian economy , more a case of "little britain" sticking together
I'm sure no-one wants to get to the airport by lots of the rip-off taxi drivers......so good on the president I say.:) Until you have an accident in one of your illegal taxis who don't have either insurance to carry passengers or licences to work. The taxi drivers are,in the main,hard working and underpaid and don't deserve these "president" style Brits taking their living away.
seanocelt
01-06-2012, 11:34
Going by a few converstaions this week, and some physical sightings, some owners are now saying "sod it" and letting again.
The following is from Janet ********'s web site, blunt but to the point!
11 June 2012 at 9:06 am
From xxxxxxxxxx
Illegal Letting – Simples
The flood of self-serving whinging concerning illegal property letting is sad.
Many years ago the Canarian people elected a government that implemented a strategic plan to upgrade the calibre of visitors to the islands from the “Kiss-me-quick” reputation it then enjoyed. The law remains in force and is slowly achieving its strategic aim.
Along came the huckster property developers, funded by banks of rare economic and commercial skills, who overbuilt rank upon rank of ticky-tacky little boxes. These were/are sold/timeshared by bottom-feeding [unregulated] agents to incomers many of whom have an eager eye for borrow-to-let no risk profits. The boom years ran on and the status quo was undisturbed but eventually it [has] imploded and government has had to take steps to avoid financial meltdown by enforcing the law and collecting taxes. Today, those who wanted easy profits, or a cheap way of funding their holidays through holiday lets, may reflect that they did not research their purchase (or more likely, their bank’s purchase) and that they are acting illegally. Could it be also that many of them do not make the correct declarations of property status or income, in the Canaries or at home, so are culpable on two counts? As a separate thought, are they properly insured and would their insurance company pay out for a personal liability claim in property that is let illegally? Huffing and puffing to salami-slice the law changes nothing in that if your property is denominated as touristic and you let it, following the regulations, then you can let it; if it is a residential property, e.g. private, you can’t let it. Simples.
Reading the various pieces of special pleading about the stupidity of the law one is struck by the thought that many of the most vociferous are probably those who complain the loudest about immigrants to their own countries; ignoring the irony that they are the guests, the immigrants, in the Canary islands.
It is a long recognised that ignorance of the law is no defence against it, so, if you have been caught out by the law through your own inadequacy why not recognise that you have been suckered, don’t blame others, accept that you are breaking the law and should have known it, stop breaking the law now and just belt up.
The following is from Janet ********'s web site, blunt but to the point!
11 June 2012 at 9:06 am
From xxxxxxxxxx
Illegal Letting – Simples
The flood of self-serving whinging concerning illegal property letting is sad.
Many years ago the Canarian people elected a government that implemented a strategic plan to upgrade the calibre of visitors to the islands from the “Kiss-me-quick” reputation it then enjoyed. The law remains in force and is slowly achieving its strategic aim.
Along came the huckster property developers, funded by banks of rare economic and commercial skills, who overbuilt rank upon rank of ticky-tacky little boxes. These were/are sold/timeshared by bottom-feeding [unregulated] agents to incomers many of whom have an eager eye for borrow-to-let no risk profits. The boom years ran on and the status quo was undisturbed but eventually it [has] imploded and government has had to take steps to avoid financial meltdown by enforcing the law and collecting taxes. Today, those who wanted easy profits, or a cheap way of funding their holidays through holiday lets, may reflect that they did not research their purchase (or more likely, their bank’s purchase) and that they are acting illegally. Could it be also that many of them do not make the correct declarations of property status or income, in the Canaries or at home, so are culpable on two counts? As a separate thought, are they properly insured and would their insurance company pay out for a personal liability claim in property that is let illegally? Huffing and puffing to salami-slice the law changes nothing in that if your property is denominated as touristic and you let it, following the regulations, then you can let it; if it is a residential property, e.g. private, you can’t let it. Simples.
Reading the various pieces of special pleading about the stupidity of the law one is struck by the thought that many of the most vociferous are probably those who complain the loudest about immigrants to their own countries; ignoring the irony that they are the guests, the immigrants, in the Canary islands.
It is a long recognised that ignorance of the law is no defence against it, so, if you have been caught out by the law through your own inadequacy why not recognise that you have been suckered, don’t blame others, accept that you are breaking the law and should have known it, stop breaking the law now and just belt up.
This thread has plenty of similar sentiment. I don't think there is a need to copy and paste from other sources. It just adds to the noise.
lancslad
12-06-2012, 08:28
Not one positive comment has been made to that thread on that website.
Red Devil
12-06-2012, 09:16
Not one positive comment has been made to that thread on that website.
Yes its unusual that this one negative comment on her website is the only one quoted on here.
(and its written very much in the style of a very negative contributor from this forum)
The important bits in that whole thread - that the monopoly of a sole agent on a tourist complex is being discussed at last, also that lots of fines have been cancelled due to running out of time, havent been mentioned.
A friend of ours had his 21000 euro fine cancelled last week.
Yes its unusual that this one negative comment on her website is the only one quoted on here.
(and its written very much in the style of a very negative contributor from this forum)
The important bits in that whole thread - that the monopoly of a sole agent on a tourist complex is being discussed at last, also that lots of fines have been cancelled due to running out of time, havent been mentioned.
A friend of ours had his 21000 euro fine cancelled last week.
It is all a rather interesting read over there, and, whether as a direct result of the "group", it seems some alterations to the law may be forthcoming, which is good news.
The poster being quoted here, whether you like the style of the post or not, has pretty much hit the nail on the head. The reason you won't find too much support for his/her views is pretty obvious. Those making the most noise on this issue are those who have been caught and fined for letting residential property which has, as we all know, been illegal for 16 odd years. Their defense now is that the law is stupid, should be changed (in their favour) and are predicting armagadden for the local economy because they passionately believe that their illegal activity has been single-handedly responsible for the welfare of taxi drivers, bars, restaurants and others, whilst at the same time funding their investment(s) from holiday makers, often in cash and without paying tax.
One of the most interesting comments I noted from a poster over "there" was a suggestion that any change in the law should see some form of licensing system for Estate Agents whereby a condition of being able to trade in property here was dependant on a requirement to have fully explained Canarian property law to their clients and for some sort of signed agreement to be placed on record to show that the difference in what could / could not be legally done with touristic and residentially classed property.
One of the most sensible suggestions yet.
junglejim
12-06-2012, 09:55
Muppet , with reference to Estate Agents - there are still Agents advertising property as " good rental potential" on Residential Complexes and even in Santa Maria for example where you have to use people like Konrad who are totally ripping people off as a sole agent - just look around the agents shops ( San Eugenio CC)
It is all a rather interesting read over there, and, whether as a direct result of the "group", it seems some alterations to the law may be forthcoming, which is good news.
The poster being quoted here, whether you like the style of the post or not, has pretty much hit the nail on the head. The reason you won't find too much support for his/her views is pretty obvious. Those making the most noise on this issue are those who have been caught and fined for letting residential property which has, as we all know, been illegal for 16 odd years. Their defense now is that the law is stupid, should be changed (in their favour) and are predicting armagadden for the local economy because they passionately believe that their illegal activity has been single-handedly responsible for the welfare of taxi drivers, bars, restaurants and others, whilst at the same time funding their investment(s) from holiday makers, often in cash and without paying tax.
One of the most interesting comments I noted from a poster over "there" was a suggestion that any change in the law should see some form of licensing system for Estate Agents whereby a condition of being able to trade in property here was dependant on a requirement to have fully explained Canarian property law to their clients and for some sort of signed agreement to be placed on record to show that the difference in what could / could not be legally done with touristic and residentially classed property.
One of the most sensible suggestions yet.
It seems that any reversal of the law concerning holiday letting on residential sites is just not going to happen. But for areas such as El Medano and La Caleta (where there are no touristic sites at all) the illegal holiday lets are what have kept most of the small bars and restaurants alive. As time goes on and less and less people are able to stay in these areas we will see a lot more businesses closes down. I don't think anyone can argue that by reducing the amount and variety of accommodation on offer to prospective holiday makers, jobs won't be lost! With unemployment on the islands at such an astonomic level it does seem odd that now should be the time to implement these laws!
Muppet , with reference to Estate Agents - there are still Agents advertising property as " good rental potential" on Residential Complexes and even in Santa Maria for example where you have to use people like Konrad who are totally ripping people off as a sole agent - just look around the agents shops ( San Eugenio CC)
Absolutely - and my point exactly. Whilst the review of the laws relating to touristic complexes which would seem to be on the way may well deal with the issues re touristic and agents, a significant amount of the present problems relate to residential complexes where desperate-to-make-a-sale agents have been less than honest with their clients.
The law here is unlikely to ever be changed, the challenge to Europe failed last time, so why would it succeed this time? What the property "industry" here needs is regulation as well.
Added after 9 minutes:
It seems that any reversal of the law concerning holiday letting on residential sites is just not going to happen. But for areas such as El Medano and La Caleta (where there are no touristic sites at all) the illegal holiday lets are what have kept most of the small bars and restaurants alive. As time goes on and less and less people are able to stay in these areas we will see a lot more businesses closes down. I don't think anyone can argue that by reducing the amount and variety of accommodation on offer to prospective holiday makers, jobs won't be lost! With unemployment on the islands at such an astonomic level it does seem odd that now should be the time to implement these laws!
But, from what I've read, the revisions to the laws are yet to be discussed in detail, and I'm sure the points you raise will be made during the consultation process - The Government here I think realise some bits need looking at and they would also prefer to avoid a visit to Europe again.
At the end of the day though, it's their country and they can run it how they want....
This thread has plenty of similar sentiment. I don't think there is a need to copy and paste from other sources. It just adds to the noise.
Just thought I would wake you up as no posts on here for 11 days - lol. :wink2:
Absolutely - and my point exactly. Whilst the review of the laws relating to touristic complexes which would seem to be on the way may well deal with the issues re touristic and agents, a significant amount of the present problems relate to residential complexes where desperate-to-make-a-sale agents have been less than honest with their clients.
The law here is unlikely to ever be changed, the challenge to Europe failed last time, so why would it succeed this time? What the property "industry" here needs is regulation as well.
Added after 9 minutes:
But, from what I've read, the revisions to the laws are yet to be discussed in detail, and I'm sure the points you raise will be made during the consultation process - The Government here I think realise some bits need looking at and they would also prefer to avoid a visit to Europe again.
At the end of the day though, it's their country and they can run it how they want....
I do hope you're right. As you say ... it is their country and they can run it how they like but these islands are so beautiful and have so much to offer it seems such a shame that they seem intent on going backwards! In my view, tourism is essential to these islands and the powers that be should be concentrating on promoting all that the islands have to offer. Diversity is the key. Some folks want a 5* hotel with spas and golf, others want to camp in the hills and hike all day! Some want to be waited on hand and foot, others want the freedom of self catering. Some want to be entertained others want peace and quiet. Some want to play sport al day others want to lie on the beach. The canaries should be looking at ways to encourage every type of holiday for every type of holiday maker. Obviously any establishment offering accommodation should be regulated and should be accountable for offering what they advertise to be offering. But simply scaring away investors seems very short sighted. I hope when these laws are looked at, there will be some sensible proposals which help the whole economy to prosper.
Can someone tell me who is saying that there will be no change to the law regarding residential villas in the Canaries?
seanocelt
12-06-2012, 17:24
Look at Tenerifepropertyguide.com and see the villas that have suddenly appeared available for long term rental.
Look at Tenerifepropertyguide.com and see the villas that have suddenly appeared available for long term rental.
which of course is perfectly legal ??
Originally Posted by Muppet
Ricardo de la Puente
Sorry I must have missed that. Can you point me in the right direction.
Thanks
Hugh
seanocelt
12-06-2012, 18:17
which of course is perfectly legal ??
Of course, i think anyway. Cant see why not, can you?
Sorry I must have missed that. Can you point me in the right direction.
Thanks
Hugh
Clue is in post on previous page
Iam quite sure that the dust will settle and the Canarian Government will allow any lettings in the Islands wether they be tourist or residential.With the Spanish being in the same way as the rest of the EU they cannot afford to loose any money.So to anybody that wants to make cash,carry on or otherwise Tenerife and the rest of Spain will have lost their main source of income.
slodgedad
12-06-2012, 22:19
Iam quite sure that the dust will settle and the Canarian Government will allow any lettings in the Islands wether they be tourist or residential.With the Spanish being in the same way as the rest of the EU they cannot afford to loose any money.So to anybody that wants to make cash,carry on or otherwise Tenerife and the rest of Spain will have lost their main source of income.
But that is the point. Many of the illegal letters are paying nothing into the system
try looking on holiday lettings or villarenters or any other such sites now for lets on popular residential complexes like el mirador or dynastia, you will not find many for let, unless you are a regular renter and have the owners contact details you have no chance because owners are scared
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