View Full Version : The Tenerife illegal lettings thread
So having lived here for 20 years, legal resident from day one, kids gone to spanish schools, opened 3 new businesses, employed Spanish workers and others, paid many, many 1000's in taxes and social, have a Spanish driving permit, brought and sold a number of properties and paid a bag full of taxes in doing so, vote in the elections, have many, many Spanish friends and attended many family events of theirs, its nice to know I am only a guest who has no say in anything that matters.:(
Unless you have a Spanish Citizenship and a passport you cannot vote in the National Elections (locals yes), so you are a guest
Love it! Your best yet! :hi:
Do have fun picking your nits
xx
golf birdie
26-09-2011, 11:26
Unless you have a Spanish Citizenship and a passport you cannot vote in the National Elections (locals yes), so you are a guest
xx
just nice to know I and many others have no say in anything that matters on a Island we have paid many millions into.
Thank you for that Doreen. With only 76 possible convictions so far it doesn't look like it's going to affect our black economy just yet. Much ado over nothing methinks. :duh:
Not if you happen to be one of the poor sods whose been served with an 18000 euro fine
Topacciolo
26-09-2011, 15:18
I honestly didn't read all the posts because they are way to many but I understood the all situation thy are trying o stop illegal lettings to help hotels but they do not really take in consideration that a lot of people don't want to stay in hotels or aparthotel because they prefer the quiet residential areas so all those people will not come to Tenerife anymore, they will just go somewhere else where they can rent what thy want penalising the shops bars restaurants.... I don't understand why they are making such a big fuss about it.
I know a friend that because of the economy crises had a choice to make, sell (at very low price) or rent out to help a bit with covering some costs. Now if he can't afford the apartment anymore he will not came to the island anymore and he will stop paying community fees making the community fees higher for the rest of the residents.
Don't forget that in many complex you pay a fix monthly fee for gas electricity and water and if people stop paying that because they can't afford it anymore the quote for the few people that actually leave there the all year will increase.
This is not a win win situation I'm afraid.... Everyone will loose on this.
I agree that agencies shouldn't work with residential property because they are making a fortune out of it but the single owner that cover some costs by renting should be left alone.
We are in a very bed economy and I don't see who will benefit from this move.
Topacciolo
delderek
26-09-2011, 15:55
I honestly didn't read all the posts because they are way to many but I understood the all situation thy are trying o stop illegal lettings to help hotels but they do not really take in consideration that a lot of people don't want to stay in hotels or aparthotel because they prefer the quiet residential areas so all those people will not come to Tenerife anymore, they will just go somewhere else where they can rent what thy want penalising the shops bars restaurants.... I don't understand why they are making such a big fuss about it.
I know a friend that because of the economy crises had a choice to make, sell (at very low price) or rent out to help a bit with covering some costs. Now if he can't afford the apartment anymore he will not came to the island anymore and he will stop paying community fees making the community fees higher for the rest of the residents.
Don't forget that in many complex you pay a fix monthly fee for gas electricity and water and if people stop paying that because they can't afford it anymore the quote for the few people that actually leave there the all year will increase.
This is not a win win situation I'm afraid.... Everyone will loose on this.
I agree that agencies shouldn't work with residential property because they are making a fortune out of it but the single owner that cover some costs by renting should be left alone.
We are in a very bed economy and I don't see who will benefit from this move.
Topacciolo
Many people probably agree with you, but who said laws have to be sensible, but they must still be adhered to.!
Topacciolo, that argument has been given before ( and many thanks for reminding us of it) but didn't cut any mustard with some of the contributors to this thread. Some have given the riposte of " well, if you can't afford the apartment, then you shouldn't have bought it in the first place!" There are varying angles from which this situation can be approached. Residents dont want "noisy, pesky kids" running riot (even though the friends and relations that may be staying in someone's apartment may have these kids), letting agents want to protect their income ( fair point), owners want to pay their mortgages ( again fair point) and hotels want to bring in more customers ( understandable). My argument would be that if you exclude the people who currently rent on residential complexes, you will drive up prices in the other "legal" places and that while these places will do well, it will be to the detriment of the economy as a whole. Loaded is quite rightly fighting his corner and it was during a discussion with him, that I finally realised exactly why I thought residential apartments were in the main, superior to the commercially let ones, it's because I can pick and choose individual apartments on various websites and know exactly what I'm getting before I leave home. This "pick n choose" option is a massive advantage over the commercial lets and I will continue to use these until a similar arrangement is developed for tourist complexes.
In finishing, I believe there has to be some sort of compromise, e.g. some residential apartments being allowed to let, using a finite amount of letting agents on the island to act as intermediaries, with these apartments to be inspected for an annual fee. These inspection teams would also deal with any complaints from other residents in the building re: unsocial behaviour with a perhaps, "3 strikes and you're out" policy. I should add that that it would require the agreement of the majority of owners on the complex to allow these lettings. These are only my own ramblings and apologies to all if I have strayed off subject.
You are not off topic, indeed you are expressing the views of many on here who have commented.
Trouble is though that the post describes the utopian view of both the owners of residential apartments advertised for rent, and those many holiday makers who have been making use of the opportunities for some years.
The issue is that the present law which is currently being enforced has little or no scope for exceptions such as those you describe. It simply says it is against the law to let residential property to the short term letting market - i.e, the tourist industry, for commercial gain.
Maybe in months or years to come the effects of the law may well have an adverse effect on the tourist industry, be that less availaility and/or higher prices - indeed I think most sensible people can see the potential risks, but it remains the case that the law, made by the Canarian Government 15 years ago and unsuccesfully challenged in the EU courts, is here to stay for the moment at least.
At present, the only way a rethink or concessions to the law would be likely will be if the courts who are about to hear the first batch of appeals against the fines take the side of the apartment owners and owners affected, and I would suggest this is quite unlikely right now.
You are not off topic, indeed you are expressing the views of many on here who have commented.
Trouble is though that the post describes the utopian view of both the owners of residential apartments advertised for rent, and those many holiday makers who have been making use of the opportunities for some years.
The issue is that the present law which is currently being enforced has little or no scope for exceptions such as those you describe. It simply says it is against the law to let residential property to the short term letting market - i.e, the tourist industry, for commercial gain.
Maybe in months or years to come the effects of the law may well have an adverse effect on the tourist industry, be that less availaility and/or higher prices - indeed I think most sensible people can see the potential risks, but it remains the case that the law, made by the Canarian Government 15 years ago and unsuccesfully challenged in the EU courts, is here to stay for the moment at least.
At present, the only way a rethink or concessions to the law would be likely will be if the courts who are about to hear the first batch of appeals against the fines take the side of the apartment owners and owners affected, and I would suggest this is quite unlikely right now.
I agree with you wholeheartedly on the above. Yes, laws are there to be obeyed but until someone starts bringing a dose of realism to the situation and offering alternatives, the status quo will remain ad infinitum.
At present, the only way a rethink or concessions to the law would be likely will be if the courts who are about to hear the first batch of appeals against the fines take the side of the apartment owners and owners affected, and I would suggest this is quite unlikely right now.
The problem is that these "appeals" are not actually in the Courts - rather sitting on a functionary's (civil servant's) desk in Tourismo for him to decide ... one hopes the fines will be reduced, not much else.
I agree with you wholeheartedly on the above. Yes, laws are there to be obeyed but until someone starts bringing a dose of realism to the situation and offering alternatives, the status quo will remain ad infinitum.
Unfortunately, the realism is that the Canarian government passed this law 15 years ago and have now decided to enforce it. It doesn't actually matter whether we feel that the law is a total joke or not, they are in charge of setting and enforcing Canarian law and they have decided to enforce this law - everyone will have to live with it.
You can't pick and choose which of their laws you want to accept. Unlike Britain, most governments don't pander to the whims of people from abroad who have chosen to live in their midst.
I agree with you wholeheartedly on the above. Yes, laws are there to be obeyed but until someone starts bringing a dose of realism to the situation and offering alternatives, the status quo will remain ad infinitum.
Best put yourself up for election next time then !!
xx
Unfortunately, the realism is that the Canarian government passed this law 15 years ago and have now decided to enforce it. It doesn't actually matter whether we feel that the law is a total joke or not, they are in charge of setting and enforcing Canarian law and they have decided to enforce this law - everyone will have to live with it.
You can't pick and choose which of their laws you want to accept. Unlike Britain, most governments don't pander to the whims of people from abroad who have chosen to live in their midst.
As I said, I agree you can't pick and choose which laws to accept, but you certainly can voice an opinion for/against them! Whether anyone listens is another matter of course!
Best put yourself up for election next time then !!
xx
Don't get this, sorry??
just nice to know I and many others have no say in anything that matters on a Island we have paid many millions into.
Unless you have a Spanish Citizenship and a passport you cannot vote in the National Elections (locals yes), so you are a guest
As I said, I agree you can't pick and choose which laws to accept, but you certainly can voice an opinion for/against them! Whether anyone listens is another matter of course!
That's the major problem, you have no legal voice on the subject unless you are Spanish apparently.
Best put yourself up for election next time then !!
xx
My apologies for any mis-understanding. The sentiment has been expressed by others though, it is their law, made by their Government and it really doesn't matter whether we agree with it or not, we are here to abide by it or risk the consequences.
Our only option to instigate change is to become active in the law-making in the first instance, standing for election to councils and government posts. Not that likely, sadly.
just nice to know I and many others have no say in anything that matters on a Island we have paid many millions into.As you have been here for more than 10 years you can take out Spanish Nationality and hold a Spanish passport. Just imagine the paperwork!!!!!
Added after 10 minutes:
The point about many of these illegal rental properties was that many of their owners never paid tax on their income either in Spain or the UK. Secondly some were in bad or dangerous condition and there wasn't anybody on the complex accountable to the person who had booked the apartment and finally there isn't any control over who is staying on the island in the same way that there is on legal tourist complexes.
Red Devil
26-09-2011, 19:32
As you have been here for more than 10 years you can take out Spanish Nationality and hold a Spanish passport. Just imagine the paperwork!!!!!
Added after 10 minutes:
The point about many of these illegal rental properties was that many of their owners never paid tax on their income either in Spain or the UK. Secondly some were in bad or dangerous condition and there wasn't anybody on the complex accountable to the person who had booked the apartment and finally there isn't any control over who is staying on the island in the same way that there is on legal tourist complexes.
Quite a few interesting points there: You have no idea about the tax situation of any owners I wouldn't have thought, but even if true there are no doubt as many "illegal" owners on tourist complexes (ie taking their own bookings, not through a management company) who could not be paying tax on their income.
Please give examples of any bad/dangerous condition apartments that you are aware of on a residential complex and I will give you an equal number of examples of ones I have stayed in on tourist complexes.
The inspectors do not inspect individual apartments so therefore their condition is in no way guaranteed - in fact in my experience it is the absent long distance owner of a money making tourist apartment who often does not look after it.
Any reasonable and sensible owner on a residential complex would have already given the visitor their own phone number as well as that of a contactable local person, otherwise who on earth is doing the cleaning?
I see no difference between being "unaccountable" as in a visitor to a residential complex or "unaccountable" as in arriving to stay in either your own or your friend's apartment without informing anyone in authority on the island?
On what grounds is there a need for control? Via your passport the authorities are already aware where you have travelled to.
They do inspect individual apartments! I had an inspection this morning !
They do inspect individual apartments! I had an inspection this morning !
The result of a Denuncia ... or just passing through :)
welshman
26-09-2011, 21:23
Tenerife Holidays
Tenerife to refresh its tourism strategy
Friday, 16 September 2011 14:13
Tenerife’s tourism promotion is likely to take on a new direction over the next few months. The old model was formulated in 2008 but it is likely to be refreshed, with a new emphasis on collaborations between the private and public sector.
A new campaign will also take into account the growing emergence of new markets for Tenerife and increased competition from other locations, such as Egypt and Turkey. It is also felt that the island needs to adapt to changing times with better use of new technology.
First vice-president of the Tenerife Cabildo Carlos Alonso, who is also now in charge of tourism, said they had to strengthen and improve their tourism strategy.
In the coming months, they would be seeking a new model involving the private and public sectors, not to cut resources but to increase them.
Sr. Alonso said they needed to take into consideration new market such as from the Nordic countries and France and the phenomenon of internet sales, plus the maturity of some destinations such as Puerto de la Cruz. The aim would be to increase tourist spending and income per visitor in the capital.
He believes the improvement in the tourism trade on the island is encouraging hotels to create new jobs but it was the lack of credit which was slowing down the economic recovery.
Read this in Tenerife News is this the start of the Canaries coming into the real world ?
Santiago
26-09-2011, 21:25
Tenerife Holidays
Tenerife to refresh its tourism strategy
Friday, 16 September 2011 14:13
Tenerife’s tourism promotion is likely to take on a new direction over the next few months. The old model was formulated in 2008 but it is likely to be refreshed, with a new emphasis on collaborations between the private and public sector.
A new campaign will also take into account the growing emergence of new markets for Tenerife and increased competition from other locations, such as Egypt and Turkey. It is also felt that the island needs to adapt to changing times with better use of new technology.
First vice-president of the Tenerife Cabildo Carlos Alonso, who is also now in charge of tourism, said they had to strengthen and improve their tourism strategy.
In the coming months, they would be seeking a new model involving the private and public sectors, not to cut resources but to increase them.
Sr. Alonso said they needed to take into consideration new market such as from the Nordic countries and France and the phenomenon of internet sales, plus the maturity of some destinations such as Puerto de la Cruz. The aim would be to increase tourist spending and income per visitor in the capital.
He believes the improvement in the tourism trade on the island is encouraging hotels to create new jobs but it was the lack of credit which was slowing down the economic recovery.
Read this in Tenerife News is this the start of the Canaries coming into the real world ?
Does the left hand know what the right hand is doing??
Read this in Tenerife News is this the start of the Canaries coming into the real world ?
Not if they continue to insist that complexes built as touristic accommodation in touristic areas but designated residential according to a 15 year old law that has never been enforced - should now be enforced....
Tenerife Holidays
Tenerife to refresh its tourism strategy
Friday, 16 September 2011 14:13
Tenerife’s tourism promotion is likely to take on a new direction over the next few months. The old model was formulated in 2008 but it is likely to be refreshed, with a new emphasis on collaborations between the private and public sector.
A new campaign will also take into account the growing emergence of new markets for Tenerife and increased competition from other locations, such as Egypt and Turkey. It is also felt that the island needs to adapt to changing times with better use of new technology.
First vice-president of the Tenerife Cabildo Carlos Alonso, who is also now in charge of tourism, said they had to strengthen and improve their tourism strategy.
In the coming months, they would be seeking a new model involving the private and public sectors, not to cut resources but to increase them.
Sr. Alonso said they needed to take into consideration new market such as from the Nordic countries and France and the phenomenon of internet sales, plus the maturity of some destinations such as Puerto de la Cruz. The aim would be to increase tourist spending and income per visitor in the capital.
He believes the improvement in the tourism trade on the island is encouraging hotels to create new jobs but it was the lack of credit which was slowing down the economic recovery.
Read this in Tenerife News is this the start of the Canaries coming into the real world ?
I wonder what is meant by collaborations between private and public sectors? The thing that caught my eye was the taking into consideration "the phenomenon of internet sales", does this mean they'll try to eradicate it or promote it?
@ Doreen it was a solicited inspection due to us adding new apartments to our registration. Also working on something else
With them that is not to do with this clampdown - I'll keep you posted
I wonder what is meant by collaborations between private and public sectors? The thing that caught my eye was the taking into consideration "the phenomenon of internet sales", does this mean they'll try to eradicate it or promote it?
Not sure about the public / private sector comment but i think it's only common sense that they would promote and encourage the Internet as a means of generating tourism for the islands
Quite a few interesting points there: You have no idea about the tax situation of any owners I wouldn't have thought, but even if true there are no doubt as many "illegal" owners on tourist complexes (ie taking their own bookings, not through a management company) who could not be paying tax on their income.
Please give examples of any bad/dangerous condition apartments that you are aware of on a residential complex and I will give you an equal number of examples of ones I have stayed in on tourist complexes.
The inspectors do not inspect individual apartments so therefore their condition is in no way guaranteed - in fact in my experience it is the absent long distance owner of a money making tourist apartment who often does not look after it.
Any reasonable and sensible owner on a residential complex would have already given the visitor their own phone number as well as that of a contactable local person, otherwise who on earth is doing the cleaning?
I see no difference between being "unaccountable" as in a visitor to a residential complex or "unaccountable" as in arriving to stay in either your own or your friend's apartment without informing anyone in authority on the island?
On what grounds is there a need for control? Via your passport the authorities are already aware where you have travelled to.Our opinion on who has or hasn't paid tax is irrelevent.The goverment obviously thinks that they haven't.If they thought that by enforcing this law they were going to lose large amounts of tax then they wouldn't have taken this course.I know many owners who have never paid any tax on their rentals and some who never even come to check their apartments.Loaded will tell you how difficult it is to get owners to spend money on their properties and if there isn't a rental company involved it is even worse.There are some responsible owners paying tax and renting out beautiful properties but there are many who are not!!!
I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread that the Canarian government had no difficulty in accepting tax paid on the income received from letting these apartments. Which begs another question, if they legalised short term lets ( in a limited way), would they raise more money than from fines? I suspect the answer would be "yes" and if this IS the case, the the recent enforcement of the law is not happening for purely financial means.
Surely though, the press article at the weekend shows that they are in the process of enforcing the law?
The bottom line though is that whilst the money raised through fines and/or tax revenues may well be nice to have for the Government at the present time, the enforcement of the law preventing private letting has come about through pressure on them from the Hotel owners association who, it might well be argued, are attempting to maintain - even grow, their monopoly over the tourist industry here.
Given the roots of those currently running the Turismo office of the Cabildo, one might be forgiven for shouting FIX very loudly.
I don't personally believe this affair is about money at all, it is about control.
delderek
27-09-2011, 11:10
I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread that the Canarian government had no difficulty in accepting tax paid on the income received from letting these apartments. Which begs another question, if they legalised short term lets ( in a limited way), would they raise more money than from fines? I suspect the answer would be "yes" and if this IS the case, the the recent enforcement of the law is not happening for purely financial means.
Only thing wrong with that calculation. Any fines go to the Canarian Govt. Tax goes to Central Govt, with no benefit to the Canaries.
Substitue "Central" for "Canarian", the premise is still the same
Edit: Sorry, I didn't realise where you were coming from. That puts a different slant on things.
Well whether its the central government or the Canaries taking the tax income they will lose out from us!
We have rented out and paid tax on our villa for 12 years now and its always been top standard on safety and equipment but we are stopping at the end of the summer season.
I know of many people doing the same thing and many of our visitors go out for meals every evening so all these inspectors are doing is making the restaurants go bust ultimately.
I hope the Turismo are happy, our guests will go to Greece or somewhere like that, they dont want all inclusive hotels with a boring restaurant you know inside out after three days!
Goforgold
27-09-2011, 19:01
Well whether its the central government or the Canaries taking the tax income they will lose out from us!
We have rented out and paid tax on our villa for 12 years now and its always been top standard on safety and equipment but we are stopping at the end of the summer season.
I know of many people doing the same thing and many of our visitors go out for meals every evening so all these inspectors are doing is making the restaurants go bust ultimately.
I hope the Turismo are happy, our guests will go to Greece or somewhere like that, they dont want all inclusive hotels with a boring restaurant you know inside out after three days!
I was sorry to read that you have taken the decision to remove your property from the rental sector at the end of the summer season.
As you say there are many people, including us, who won't go into a Hotel. I am going to have to hope that I come across someone who is looking for an 'extended family' for next year.
Well whether its the central government or the Canaries taking the tax income they will lose out from us!
We have rented out and paid tax on our villa for 12 years now and its always been top standard on safety and equipment but we are stopping at the end of the summer season.
I know of many people doing the same thing and many of our visitors go out for meals every evening so all these inspectors are doing is making the restaurants go bust ultimately.
I hope the Turismo are happy, our guests will go to Greece or somewhere like that, they dont want all inclusive hotels with a boring restaurant you know inside out after three days!
BoPeep, didn't you post on the original thread that your agent was telling you he had got a licence to let your villa individually... did nothing come of that or was it just that he became legal himself but was not able to deliver ?
It's not just here they don't like illegal lettings..... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15083506
28 September 2011 Last updated at 05:01 GMT Share this pageFacebookTwitterEmailPrint
2012 Olympic short term landlords 'could face fines'
By Guy Lynn
BBC News
People across London are expected to rent out their properties during the games
Continue reading the main story
Related Stories
Olympic Park becomes tourism magnet
2012 'should not deter' tourists
Tourism slow as Olympics approach
Londoners hoping to rent out their homes during the Olympics are being warned they could be breaking the law and left facing a fine.
BBC London has uncovered stark variations in councils' positions on the practice.
Some have warned they will crack down on people renting out properties - but others have said it is not a problem.
The National Association of Estate Agents is calling for a review of the law on short term lettings.
But at the moment Londoners face a postcode lottery as to whether they can rent out their homes for the games.
Juzar Jeevanjee lives in Haringey, one of the areas where the council has said it will not crack down on people letting out their homes.
'Happy times'
He said: "Obviously there's a huge opportunity for earning extra money here with lots coming in for the Olympics who can't afford hotels.
"From what agents have told me, I could double or triple what I could get at the moment, so it could be happy times."
Continue reading the main story
“
Start Quote
It's so expensive to live here - and it would be nice to make some extra cash”
Juliet Rowe
Frustrated homeowner
But Juliet Rowe, who lives in Westminster, would be in a very different situation if she wanted to rent out her apartment for a short period.
Westminster effectively bans short term lets of 90 days or under unless planning permission is obtained - but this is rarely given.
If she were to rent out her home anyway during the games, she could face a fine of £20,000 and even a criminal record.
Ms Rowe does not plan to do this - but said it was enormously disappointing.
She said: "It seems everything you try to do in this city you get told off.
"It's so expensive to live here - and it would be nice to make some extra cash.
"It's beyond frustrating."
Westminster Council told BBC London it was important to preserve the rental market for longer term residents.
'No level playing field'
It said numerous complaints had been received by residents complaining about noise and disruption in mansion blocks caused by short-term residents.
Continue reading the main story
Councils banning short-term lets
Southwark
Tower Hamlets
Islington
Kensington and Chelsea
Westminster
Camden
Rosemarie MacQueen, Westminster Council's head of city planning development and design, said: "In Westminster, we have a population of 250,000 and that has to grow with targets from the mayor and ourselves. "If we have short term lets, we'll never increase our long term residential population.
"Secondly, residents who live in blocks of flats with short term lets actually feel their quality of life has gone down."
She continued: "There's a fear of crime, they don't know the faces of the people who are coming in and a lot of short term residents don't treat the place like home.
"They leave litter in the corridors, come and go and have parties."
The Olympics will draw people to London from across the world
BBC London asked every council in the capital for details of what its policies were concerning short term lets.
Some 27 London boroughs said they had no problem with properties being let for short periods and this did not require any planning permission.
But Southwark, Tower Hamlets, Islington, Kensington and Chelsea, Westminster and Camden warned people who let properties for short periods without planning permission could be served with enforcement notices.
In some cases they could receive fines of up to £20,000 if they were deemed to be repeat offenders.
Chief executive of the National Association of Estate Agents, Peter Bolton King, said: "The problem here is a lack of a level playing field which means regulations are not being policed in the same way across London.
"I think it's time for a review and to look at whether this is working or not."
Added after 2 minutes:
Or private lettings I should say
I remember, in Dublin during the Ryder cup, some people were hoping to get 3000 euro per week for a 3bed semi-d. Most of these houses didn't get rented at all in the end. Incidently, am I correct in saying that there is only 8 weeks left (max) before the judgement on the fines will be finalised?
Well whether its the central government or the Canaries taking the tax income they will lose out from us!
We have rented out and paid tax on our villa for 12 years now and its always been top standard on safety and equipment but we are stopping at the end of the summer season.
I know of many people doing the same thing and many of our visitors go out for meals every evening so all these inspectors are doing is making the restaurants go bust ultimately.
I hope the Turismo are happy, our guests will go to Greece or somewhere like that, they dont want all inclusive hotels with a boring restaurant you know inside out after three days!
I would have thought that after 12 years of villa rentals you have aquired enough "friends and family" never to need to advertise again.Can't you continue to rent out to previous friends and family without incurring the wrath of the tourist police?
Topacciolo
28-09-2011, 19:05
I would have thought that after 12 years of villa rentals you have aquired enough "friends and family" never to need to advertise again.Can't you continue to rent out to previous friends and family without incurring the wrath of the tourist police?
It's not the point. Some want to comply with the law so they will take the villa of the market and it's a shame, local businesses will soffer because of that and that is just because hotels and government are greedy and they can't think outside the box a bit. Make easier for people to rent legally and you will benefit from more tax coming in. Penaltys are a short term solution. You get more money now but within 3 years you loose on tourists and that will mot help anyone!!
My parents are there now, staying in an aparthotel and they are paying way more then a private rent without having any benefit. It's ok but very old and a saw many private apartment same price or cheaper but much much better equipped (how can you ask to pay to use a TV....) and next time they will look for a "friend" with an apartment!!! If not they will go elsewhere!!!! Simple.
Topacciolo
Yes, we were promised a licence and although our agent says he got one for his business we are still waiting for ours. We have now told our fiscal not to bother and waste our money on it anymore.
We are not prepared to do anything in Tenerife that could be construed as illegal and we are lucky enough to be able to afford the villa without having the rentals. We were also worried that if we should not have been renting then would our house insurance with cover for rental damage and personal liability have paid out if we had a problem? Probably not if it was an expensive problem!
We do have friends and aquaintances who would like to stay but once again I question the insurance. They can come over and stay with us when we are there which will be more frequent now (yippee!) and our children can have it for their kids in the summer.
Funny enough it will be far more noisy as a private villa with our four and their offspring than it ever was as a private with normally two couples!
Clearly the agent got himself a licence to promote and sell holidays but doing that does not make all the agents properties above board as youve found out
wHERE DO YOU APPLY FOR A LICENCE TO LET OUT AN APARTMENT OR VILLA , I HAVE BEEN ASKED BY FRIENDS BUYING A PROPERTY OVER HERE ???
sORRY IF I VE MISSED IT, ITS A LONG THREAD !
wHERE DO YOU APPLY FOR A LICENCE TO LET OUT AN APARTMENT OR VILLA , I HAVE BEEN ASKED BY FRIENDS BUYING A PROPERTY OVER HERE ???
sORRY IF I VE MISSED IT, ITS A LONG THREAD !
Stop the purchase until they find out if they are buying on a Touristic complex - otherwise, they cannot legally rent out.
If it is a Touristic complex, then the managing agent will apply on their behalf for the licence (it might already be licenced and just need a change of name)
Found this from a Uk solicitor and "expert" on this subject http://www.justanswer.com/uk-law/581fp-apartment-spain-letting-out-and.html I notice he borrows heavily from my article on http://www.propertyforsaleintenerife.com/the-1995-letting-law-in-tenerife-and-the-canaries.asp .... Still imitation is the sincerest form of flattery lol
Found this from a Uk solicitor and "expert" on this subject http://www.justanswer.com/uk-law/581fp-apartment-spain-letting-out-and.html I notice he borrows heavily from my article on http://www.propertyforsaleintenerife.com/the-1995-letting-law-in-tenerife-and-the-canaries.asp .... Still imitation is the sincerest form of flattery lol
Very interesting indeed ... part of the question:
The complex is in Tenerife and the spanish tourist authority have appointed 17 representatives to go round to residential complexes to stop us letting unless it is a long let of which i was told it was minimum 3 months.They actually came to the complex in May with a list of 17 names of owners thay wanted to speak to but the president was vague with information about us.We started advertising on owners direct 12 months ago because every man and his dog was doing so and this is probably how they found us.
...
Think you should put in a claim for the GBP21 fee :)
jogger321
09-10-2011, 13:02
Good to see "chinese whispers" are alive and well on the residential complex of Paloma..It's amazing where this total utter "etihs" surfaces from!
Good to see "chinese whispers" are alive and well on the residential complex of Paloma..It's amazing where this total utter "etihs" surfaces from!
What's your problem jogger321 ... Is there another Paloma apart from Paloma Beach, a Touristic complex .... and given the denial of some on here that anything is being done by the inspectors, I find it relevant that we have another report of an inspection.
Good to see "chinese whispers" are alive and well on the residential complex of Paloma..It's amazing where this total utter "etihs" surfaces from!
All good here thanks mate. Bookings well up and very busy. Jog On!
What's your problem jogger321 ... Is there another Paloma apart from Paloma Beach, a Touristic complex .... and given the denial of some on here that anything is being done by the inspectors, I find it relevant that we have another report of an inspection.
So, is that confirmation that, as per the statement in the article, that the owner had seen, on the internet that a man was fined €18k for letting out on Paloma Beach Tenerife? Or is it chinese whispers?
Hmmm, not sure if you're deliberatley confusing things but I'll explain anyway:
the post came from an "ask the expert" website and made no mention of the complex they were on or the owners who had been fined.
Jogger321 made reference to chinese whipers on Paloma Beach because thats the complex I'm on. He called it a residential complex presumably to try and wind me up or whatever.
Doreen asked what his problem was as everyone knows Paloma Beach has a touristic licence.
You then ask if an owner on Paloma Beach has been fined.
It is posible that an owner on Paloma Beach could be fined if they are not registered with the holder of the tourist licence, however the info found on the "ask the expert" website does not state that they are from Paloma Beach.
Hmmm, not sure if you're deliberatley confusing things but I'll explain anyway:
the post came from an "ask the expert" website and made no mention of the complex they were on or the owners who had been fined.
Jogger321 made reference to chinese whipers on Paloma Beach because thats the complex I'm on. He called it a residential complex presumably to try and wind me up or whatever.
Doreen asked what his problem was as everyone knows Paloma Beach has a touristic licence.
You then ask if an owner on Paloma Beach has been fined.
It is posible that an owner on Paloma Beach could be fined if they are not registered with the holder of the tourist licence, however the info found on the "ask the expert" website does not state that they are from Paloma Beach.
OK, let me explain.
In that article the owner is scared because he 'read on the internet that an owner had been fined €18K for letting out on Paloma Beach'. No confusion on my part as the article itself mentions PB, not jogger. Have another read Loaded.
So as you and Doreen are connected to PB, I ask again, is the article writer correct or is it CHINESE WHISPERS?
OK, let me explain.
In that article the owner is scared because he 'read on the internet that an owner had been fined €18K for letting out on Paloma Beach'. No confusion on my part as the article itself mentions PB, not jogger. Have another read Loaded.
So as you and Doreen are connected to PB, I ask again, is the article writer correct or is it CHINESE WHISPERS?
The reference to Chinese Whispers had me confused ... yes, three years or so ago, an owner on PB, who was also illegally acting as an agent of several properties on PB was fined 18k .. in fact, I bought one of his apartments he then sold.
The link to the report of the case is on Loaded's website ... all long before the new Inspectors.
Ah right, I hadn't seen that bit - "I have seen on the internet that a man was fined about 18,000 euros for letting out on Paloma beach Tenerife."
So he's saying he's got an apartment in Tenerife and owners on the complex have had inspections demanding names and addresses and he says that he's worried they might be liable to get fined as he's seen that someone on Paloma Beach got fined 18000 (which is correct they did).
What's your problem jogger321 ... Is there another Paloma apart from Paloma Beach, a Touristic complex .... and given the denial of some on here that anything is being done by the inspectors, I find it relevant that we have another report of an inspection.
So, on reflection, this response was unjustified?
Hmmm, not sure if you're deliberatley confusing things but I'll explain anyway:
the post came from an "ask the expert" website and made no mention of the complex they were on or the owners who had been fined.
Jogger321 made reference to chinese whipers on Paloma Beach because thats the complex I'm on. He called it a residential complex presumably to try and wind me up or whatever.
Doreen asked what his problem was as everyone knows Paloma Beach has a touristic licence.
You then ask if an owner on Paloma Beach has been fined.
It is posible that an owner on Paloma Beach could be fined if they are not registered with the holder of the tourist licence, however the info found on the "ask the expert" website does not state that they are from Paloma Beach.
And this also?
So, on reflection, this response was unjustified?
Yes - but if he has asked a proper question at the time, then No ... but Chinese Whispers - how was I supposed to know what he was talking about :)
EDIT - my reply was to the questioin - was this justified :) ... quote seems to have changed since then
Sounds raaaaaaacist to me!
Yes - but if he has asked a proper question at the time, then No ... but Chinese Whispers - how was I supposed to know what he was talking about :)
Fair comment.
So that we all know how to make a proper post,
Please can you start another thread 'any comments must be written in this style so that Doreen does not get confused' and give us specific guidelines.
Yes because one of doreens life problems has been getting easily confused hence she's where she is in life and you're where you are....
So, on reflection, this response was unjustified?
And this also?
Can I just ste for the record that my reply to this as "yes I think so" was to the question "was this justified" not as you later edited it to read "this was unjustified".
Peace out
Peterrayner
11-10-2011, 14:37
Regardless of who's watching, this is not the appropriate thread to be looking for a holiday let, legal or otherwise.
Can someone confirm that the powers that be, have a period of 6 months to enforce the fines for illegal letting? If so, would I be correct in saying that there is only 6 weeks left before the fines are nullified?
In the opinion of a leading local lawyer dealing with many of the appeals.... Yes they will lapse in about 6 weeks if the appeals are not concluded.
and to date there has been no further progress on the first sdtage of the appeals since they were lodged in June.
Added after 6 minutes:
In the opinion of a leading local lawyer dealing with many of the appeals.... Yes they will lapse in about 6 weeks if the appeals are not concluded.
and to date there has been no further progress on the first part of the 2 stage appeals process since they were lodged in June.
[QUOTE=Peterrayner;105687]In the opinion of a leading local lawyer dealing with many of the appeals.... Yes they will lapse in about 6 weeks if the appeals are not concluded.QUOTE]
It will be interesting to see if they lapse especially as it is only the opinion of the lawyer, we will have to wait for 6 weeks to find out. Personally after having to deal with a fine in the past I believe they will continue.
For those concerned keep a check on your post for the next few weeks.
Can I just ste for the record that my reply to this as "yes I think so" was to the question "was this justified" not as you later edited it to read "this was unjustified".
Peace out
Funny that I edited (only to add your post to Doreens) 5 minutes before you responded.
Another case where you didn't read correctly before posting, or changing your mind now.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz you are boring. Did it ever occur that people read a post and reply a few minutes or half an hour later without refreshing the screen to check for edits.......
Funny that I edited (only to add your post to Doreens) 5 minutes before you responded.
Another case where you didn't read correctly before posting, or changing your mind now.
If you type it correctly first time, we'll read it correctly first time..:D
atlantico
26-10-2011, 12:17
anyone know the legal status of VINA DEL MAR in PDLA, touristic or residential? Just heard someone owning 5 apartments there has been visited by the authorities
Peterrayner
26-10-2011, 13:24
anyone know the legal status of VINA DEL MAR in PDLA, touristic or residential? Just heard someone owning 5 apartments there has been visited by the authorities
List of touristic apartments in Adeje
http://www.costa-adeje.es/public_en/pag_contenido.asp?id_nodo=29
atlantico
26-10-2011, 13:26
Thanks, but what about Arona?
Peterrayner
26-10-2011, 13:29
Thanks, but what about Arona?
Thought Vin Del Mar was in PDLA so it would be under Adeje not Arona.
Can you post the Arona link? I think it has been posted before.
Peterrayner
26-10-2011, 13:36
Can you post the Arona link? I think it has been posted before.
will try later the one I had (an offical site) is down at the moment ????
http://www.arona.org/portal/turismo/lloc_d10_v6.jsp?codMenu=1105&codMenuPN=1088&codMenuSN=1098&codResi=1&language=en&numeroPagina=3
Added after 6 minutes:
I didn't want to post this while the thread was quiet for fear of the forums only known german word being thrown at me, but I had a phone call from a lady who had booked a private rental in costamar and the owner had cancelled her months stay for January because this "new law". I couldn't help her as we're full but it made me wonder why this owner didn't just sign up to the onsite agent so he didn't let people down ? Even of it was just until he'd got through all his bookings before then stopping ?
Peterrayner
26-10-2011, 16:19
Cant see Vin Del mar on anywhere so I guess its residential only.
Added after 4 minutes:
http://www.arona.org/portal/turismo/lloc_d10_v6.jsp?codMenu=1105&codMenuPN=1088&codMenuSN=1098&codResi=1&language=en&numeroPagina=3
Added after 6 minutes:
I didn't want to post this while the thread was quiet for fear of the forums only known german word being thrown at me, but I had a phone call from a lady who had booked a private rental in costamar and the owner had cancelled her months stay for January because this "new law". I couldn't help her as we're full but it made me wonder why this owner didn't just sign up to the onsite agent so he didn't let people down ? Even of it was just until he'd got through all his bookings before then stopping ?
maybe he is a "dummkopf" :)
Red Devil
26-10-2011, 19:25
Its in PDLA, address classed as Costa Adeje and seems to be classed as 2 star hotel according to this link
http://www.travelrepublic.co.uk/hotels/spain/tenerife_playa_de_las_americas/cheap_rates_vina_del_mar_hotel_hotel.html
atlantico
26-10-2011, 19:31
but there are private apartments for sale there too
http://www.morfittpropertiestenerife.com/playa_de_las_americas-54.htm
Red Devil
26-10-2011, 19:42
but there are private apartments for sale there too
http://www.morfittpropertiestenerife.com/playa_de_las_americas-54.htm
Yes but almost certain if it is part hotel then the apartments on there will be classed as touristic? Cant see it being any other way. Suppose if an apartment owner has been letting illegally ie not through a management company he could well be fined.
An estate agent around the corner from us took all of their short lets off their website at the beginning of the year.
They have now put them all back on again though and they are all priced per week.
They are obviously not too worried about the legal ramifications...!
An estate agent around the corner from us took all of their short lets off their website at the beginning of the year.
They have now put them all back on again though and they are all priced per week.
They are obviously not too worried about the legal ramifications...!
If there are like my husband they are registered to let with the Tourist board the agent is doing nothing wrong
If there are like my husband they are registered to let with the Tourist board the agent is doing nothing wrong
But most of them are on residential complexes. Which is why I was surprised they put them back on.
Red Devil
26-10-2011, 20:24
An estate agent around the corner from us took all of their short lets off their website at the beginning of the year.
They have now put them all back on again though and they are all priced per week.
They are obviously not too worried about the legal ramifications...!
Do you mean their short lets on Vina Del Mar or just generally?
Do you mean their short lets on Vina Del Mar or just generally?
No - all sorts, 1 beds, 2 beds, couple of villas. Some on touristic, most on residential complexes.
But most of them are on residential complexes. Which is why I was surprised they put them back on.
But thats not down to the registered agent ,thats down to the owner
So a registered agent can advertise anything they want as a short-term / holiday let, take payment etc without breaking any of these letting laws?
The onus is on the owner?
So a registered agent can advertise anything they want as a short-term / holiday let, take payment etc without breaking any of these letting laws?
The onus is on the owner?
Exactly,if hes registered to advertise and act as intermediate, hes covered,for the owners its a different matter
So what did they fine you for ??
I thought thats all you were doing?
If there are like my husband they are registered to let with the Tourist board the agent is doing nothing wrong
That's debatable , I would say the person booking it could also be at most liable - but at the very least negligible if the owner is unaware of the fines
So what did they fine you for ??
I thought thats all you were doing?
For not having the Registration,which we now have
Oh dear....
If as a company you're renting out tourist accommodation in hotels or apartments you need the correct license.
That doesn't give you the go ahead to rent accommodation to tourists on unregistered complexes!
And even if it did - how irresponsible is that when your owners are definitely liable!
Oh dear....
If as a company you're renting out tourist accommodation in hotels or apartments you need the correct license.
That doesn't give you the go ahead to rent accommodation to tourists on unregistered complexes!
And even if it did - how irresponsible is that when your owners are definitely liable!
All of the owners have been informed with the situation of illegal renting,all of the owners are aware of the situation and want to carry on advertising at their own risk, we are not irresponible at all,we are working with these owners to try to legalise their property
I genuinely hope it works out for you
Peterrayner
27-10-2011, 08:10
I genuinely hope it works out for you
So do I.
@sunspot IIRC most of your lettings are for Villas ??? Isnt there still an issue that the Cabildo arent issuing any touristic licences (except for the odd 5* Hotels) ???
All of the owners have been informed with the situation of illegal renting,all of the owners are aware of the situation and want to carry on advertising at their own risk, we are not irresponible at all,we are working with these owners to try to legalise their property It will end in tears,big brother will be watching you and if you've paid one fine you will be a great potential future income for the multa fairy!!
Of course it will end in tears,no villa rentals, no choice for anyone who wants a villa holiday in Tenerife
Of course it will end in tears,no villa rentals, no choice for anyone who wants a villa holiday in Tenerife
It does seem completely ridiculous that if this law is fully enforced that no one can come here and rent a holiday villa for a couple of weeks.
But then again, many things about this law are ridiculous - and the manner in which it has been enacted is a complete joke.
So another month of feverish activity by the alleged 20/25+ Canary Islands inspectors passes by.
Lets see how they've done this month.
On the 3 main rental websites, an increase in rental properties of 77 over the past 4/5 weeks, a net INCREASE of 548 since February this year. Plus of course many others on the hundreds of other websites out there.
Only 2 months to go to stop holiday renting in residential properties, and tens of thousands of illegal properties to go.
The tension is electric! Can they do it?
The clampdown continues.
Nice photograph of Dinastia Apartments on the front of the Canarian Weeky!
Any update on what's happening on the appeals ??
canary boy
04-11-2011, 16:35
No Bob just the stack of fines is getting bigger and bigger
No Bob just the stack of fines is getting bigger and bigger
€200'000.00 is seriously big!
canary boy
04-11-2011, 16:49
€200.000 there going to have to do better than that if they want to pay all the inspectors wages
€200'000.00 is seriously big!
If the going rate for an offence is €18'000.00, they haven't issued many fines if the total is €200'000.00 - that only equates to 11 fines being issued !!
moonlighter
04-11-2011, 17:06
Nice photograph of Dinastia Apartments on the front of the Canarian Weeky!
Would you care to elaborate? - can't find anything on their website. :confused:
If the going rate for an offence is €18'000.00, they haven't issued many fines if the total is €200'000.00 - that only equates to 11 fines being issued !!
€200'000.00 is a fine issued to a Tenerife property-letting compny. Find a copy of the Canarian Weekly - covers the whole front page.
€200'000.00 is a fine issued to a Tenerife property-letting compny. Find a copy of the Canarian Weekly - covers the whole front page.
Which Issue is that on, it's not showing on the on-line copy
Would you care to elaborate? - can't find anything on their website. :confused:
Issue number 728 which has not yet been updated on their web site - try tomorrow.
canary boy
04-11-2011, 17:17
Ouch thats gotta hurt!
€200'000.00 is a fine issued to a Tenerife property-letting compny. Find a copy of the Canarian Weekly - covers the whole front page.
Ouch
They must have seriously pi**ed off the inspectors
canary boy
04-11-2011, 17:39
business just folds and lays off all staff but starts again with a differant name, inspectors will never get that money
Saw that article - wonder which company it is ?
Tenerife Villas
04-11-2011, 18:57
business just folds and lays off all staff but starts again with a differant name, inspectors will never get that money
they may as well platt fog people will lose jobs but the agents who advertise properties will just go underground and register uk offices and carry on
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
golf birdie
04-11-2011, 19:25
business just folds and lays off all staff but starts again with a differant name, inspectors will never get that money
depends on the set up of the company and if they have any assets In Tenerife or Spain. Seems a lot of money and since they have not named the company I would not be surprised if it was not totaly true. Why not just name them ?
Also strange that this is suddenly a front page story?
atlantico
04-11-2011, 20:20
Which Issue is that on, it's not showing on the on-line copy
try this link to my Google Docs
Canarian Weekly Front Page Here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yed9MJ0JMnoXlp1o22J0TfnBQ_MPSUjHhA-XtPKnOGE/edit)
Any news on who got fined? I have heard a rumour but can't back it up
canary boy
09-11-2011, 21:05
The fines are everywhere and lots of them its not a rumour
delderek
09-11-2011, 21:25
Any news on who got fined? I have heard a rumour but can't back it up,
Could it be the same initials as> the chocolates that melt in the mouth, not in your hand
canary boy
09-11-2011, 21:30
where have i heard that before? A different forum maybe?
Bad luck to all those owners who bought in good faith that have been fined and I hope they come to there senses and all you that think you have got away with it just consider all those people that got fined and you didnt , You think there just gonna take the hit and you just carry on doing it? I think not it only takes one disgruntled owner that has been fined to rat on the rest of the complex!
Yes i heard it might be the White rapper too
Added after 6 minutes:
But it can't be them because he told me he doesn't do holiday lets...
,
Could it be the same initials as> the chocolates that melt in the mouth, not in your hand
Mmmmm depending on age that could be Peanut Treats or their newer name M&Ms or even Minstrels!
The Thick Plottens!
Lol or Marshall mathers the white rapper
Hahaha Hadn't seen you're above post, re White rapper! Im onto it now! Mmmmmmm
Lol...........
Added after 9 minutes:
http://www.topnews.in/files/Eminem1.jpg
Added after 2 minutes:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e9/M%26M's_spokecandies.jpg/200px-M%26M's_spokecandies.jpg
wolvesfc1
09-11-2011, 22:54
hello if anyone out there can talk without riddles, i would appreciate some answers.we are due out in 4 weeks and have paid a deposit on an apartment for a month,we have the lions share of the cash to pay when we come out but i really would like to know where i stand.ie look for another apartment or stay where we planned.any answers would be apreciated on a pm. as fed up of riddles and speculation.thank you
Ok there will always be speculation as no one knows how far this is going to be taken.
The riddles are basically speculation as to who just received a 200k fine and if you were familiar with the local companies here you'd be able to tell it could possibly be Marcus management (m&m, eminem...).
Who have you booked with and where?
canary boy
10-11-2011, 00:06
My Advice is if your apartment or villa is privately owned on a residential complex then theres a good posssibilty that the owners might be breaking the lettings law,Ask your owner!
My Advice is if your apartment or villa is privately owned on a residential complex then theres a good posssibilty that the owners might be breaking the lettings law,Ask your owner!
Let's just remember that "breaking the lettings law" will only affect the incoming tourist, if the owner decides to stop renting or an agent, who has been paid, goes under - which would be of more concern here. One option would be to delay final payment till arrival.
a source tells me it's NOT the white rapper cum chocolate that melts in your mouth
wolvesfc1
10-11-2011, 17:54
as i said i don,t know if the complex or the owner are illegally letting,thanks doreen i won,t be paying the lions share till i havekeys in my hand.
Just thought id post this for those still in denial.
Complex is Surry Sol wont put name of person on here and a few more on the offical web site http://www.gobcan.es/boc/2011/224/. David
Hecho primero: grave.
Hecho segundo: grave.
SANCIÓN QUE PUDIERA CORRESPONDERLE:
Hecho primero: 10.500,00 euros.
Hecho segundo: 10.500,00 euros.
churnlobster
16-11-2011, 19:13
whats the official website address as a matter of interest?
Just thought id post this for those still in denial.
Complex is Surry Sol wont put name of person on here and a few more on the offical web site. David
Hecho primero: grave.
Hecho segundo: grave.
SANCIÓN QUE PUDIERA CORRESPONDERLE:
Hecho primero: 10.500,00 euros.
Hecho segundo: 10.500,00 euros.
wolvesfc1
16-11-2011, 19:13
:)well up to now im'e ok none of them mentioned are were im'e staying,
:)well up to now im'e ok none of them mentioned are were im'e staying,
http://www.gobcan.es/boc/2011/224/
5902Dirección General de Ordenación y Promoción Turística.- Anuncio por el que se hace pública la Resolución de 2 de noviembre de 2011, sobre notificación de Resolución de iniciación de expediente sancionador, así como los cargos que se imputan a titulares de empresas y actividades turísticas de ignorado domicilio.
3 páginas. Formato de archivo en PDF/Adobe Acrobat. Tamaño: 15 Kb.
BOC-A-2011-224-5902. Versión HTML - Firma electrónica - Descargar
5903Dirección General de Ordenación y Promoción Turística.- Anuncio por el que se hace pública la Resolución de 2 de noviembre de 2011, sobre notificación de Resolución de iniciación de expediente sancionador, así como los cargos que se imputan a titulares de empresas y actividades turísticas de ignorado domicilio.
3 páginas. Formato de archivo en PDF/Adobe Acrobat. Tamaño: 15 Kb.
BOC-A-2011-224-5903. Versión HTML - Firma electrónica - Descargar
5902Dirección General management and tourism promotion-announcement that publishes resolution on November 2, 2011, on notification of decision for initiation of disciplinary proceedings, as well as the charges against owners of companies and tourism activities of unknown residence.
3 pages. File in PDF/Adobe Acrobat format. Size: 15 Kb.
You did well to grab that from the Other Place !!
xx
seanocelt
16-11-2011, 19:38
I saw the "other place" info too, even the "in denial" folks may start to get it; with 17 inspectors it was always a marathon, not a sprint. People are indeed getting scared, example; i am struggling for accom for friends in Feb as a certain website simply has less people using it to advertise lets, even though some on here will argue otherwise. Not good news for those fined, those hoping not to be, and for the good of the Islands in general.
I cant get the link to work with my rather slow broadband - can anyone tell me what areas are involved?
seanocelt
16-11-2011, 21:05
I cant get the link to work with my rather slow broadband - can anyone tell me what areas are involved?
Sur y Sol , Los Cris plus Puerto Santiago and more. Gives folks name, NIE and fines.
There appears to be numerous complexes with any number of owners being fined about e18,000 for 2 or 3 "infractions".
From the notices it looks like their "crimes" are usually ;
1 - not having a touristic inspection book
2 - not having complaint forms
3 - not dispaying a notice for complaint forms
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
can this be real ?
Fines have been also issued on Port Royale & El Mirador.
I saw the "other place" info too, even the "in denial" folks may start to get it; with 17 inspectors it was always a marathon, not a sprint. People are indeed getting scared, example; i am struggling for accom for friends in Feb as a certain website simply has less people using it to advertise lets, even though some on here will argue otherwise. Not good news for those fined, those hoping not to be, and for the good of the Islands in general.
Just back from Los Cris. It is indeed starting to ruffle a few feathers. From a personal note the problem I'm having is that I'm now looking as far ahead as 2013 because the apartments I stay in (Legal) are starting to get booked up long into the future and I'm not talking about the obvious busy times.
I'm guessing that the decline in illegal beds is causing a rush for the legals. Luckilly, I got in early for my 2012 visits otherwise I'd have struggled. I haven't priced 2013 but I'm concerned that they'll become expensive once the competition has been eliminated.
Red Devil
17-11-2011, 13:34
Have seen copy of the official document for El Mirador (amongst others) but not for Port Royale?? Is this on the daily Government bulletin as I cant find it listed?
I guess to get the full picture you'll have to back track on each day's bulletins from now until this all started. Have fun!
but not for Port Royale??
Boletin Official de Canarias num. 223 - 27006
Boletin Official de Canarias num. 223 - 27009
Boletin Official de Canarias num. 220 - 26729
good luck.
Peterrayner
17-11-2011, 15:47
I guess to get the full picture you'll have to back track on each day's bulletins from now until this all started. Have fun!
Not necessary
Just put your N.I.E. plus the full number in Google Search and it will bring up any notifications.
Red Devil
17-11-2011, 15:52
Not necessary
Just put your N.I.E. plus the full number in Google Search and it will bring up any notifications.
Only if you're checking your own though:)
Peterrayner
17-11-2011, 15:53
Only if you're checking your own though:)
yes of course :)
My prices wont go up prices have hardly moved in the years ive owned but right to book in advance im taking bookings that are 2 years away but i was busy before all this happened the only thing is if they cant get decent accommodation they may go elswhere. David
I think if you can push the standard up you can push the price up. People will pay more for quality
I think if you can push the standard up you can push the price up. People will pay more for quality
I totally agree with that. I'd happilly pay more for a nicer place. My concerns are that some owners will do quite the opposite and not bother spending money because if one doesn't go in it, another will. Demand will outweigh supply. That gives the owners the upper hand. It would be very short sighted of them of course but I can still see them doing it.
Peterrayner
19-11-2011, 12:26
I think if you can push the standard up you can push the price up. People will pay more for quality
some might ??? but IMHO most wont and will now just up the price due to limited availability which will increase demand.
Why would they spend money they dont need to ???
golf birdie
19-11-2011, 12:48
some might ??? but IMHO most wont and will now just up the price due to limited availability which will increase demand.
Why would they spend money they dont need to ???
totally agree. I remember some of the apartments being rented in the Oasis area before they built Dinastia and el mirrador. To say the least some were basic, very few would I say were of a decent standard. I know of one apartment owner who had 2 apartments and never spent a cent on anything unless it was broken beyond repair and even then he hated spending it. He used to brag about how much he was making for so little outlay, booked 48 weeks of the year. Soon changed when people could get much better for very little extra.
I'm having is that I'm now looking as far ahead as 2013 because the apartments I stay in (Legal) are starting to get booked up long into the future and I'm not talking about the obvious busy times. I'm guessing that the decline in illegal beds is causing a rush for the legals.
So it's working, all legal beds maybe filling up for the foreseeable future and then next year they can start to give out building licenses again for hotels etc
Creating work and expansion
On the other hand the bars/ supermarkets/pool bars in the Patch area will be closing if Parque Santiago 1 & 2 are empty,similar at El Mirador and the Oasis del sur area! The knock on effect would be disasterous! But we know deep down it won't happen,the 3 complexes mentioned will still be full of illegal lets ...Its the Tenerife way and long may it continue...:whistle::raspberry2:
*Phones Canarian uncle*
Are both Santiago 1 & 2 classed as luxury illegal holiday lets?
Are both Santiago 1 & 2 classed as luxury illegal holiday lets?
*Coughs* Apparently so, so my mate says! Front line excellent location/Top spec apartments,very quiet at night and impeccably kept pool area's and gardens! Best brekkie on the Island in PS1..... * Checks flights*
Or i could try Playa Azul, Old decrepid minging and out of the way!
No Brainer :dontknow::raspberry:
Are both Santiago 1 & 2 classed as luxury illegal holiday lets?
Absolutely not..all totally legal..just ask any of the owners...:laugh:
welshman
19-11-2011, 14:14
Can anyone confirm letting conditions I have read most of all post,s but still no clear instruction. You are not allowed to advertise your apartment individualy be it on touristic or Residential complex other than long lets longer than 3 months is this correct? So if this is correct all adverts on the web are illegal other than by agent with a liecence for your complex or by individuals or for long let?.
I ask the question as a close friend of mine who we rent their apartment off yearly, which is on touristic complex. Advertise their apartment on the net and declare and pay their taxes out in Tenerife. The Tax aurthority take the tax directly out of their account after their account has declared on their behalf every three months. I have seen the paper work so I can confirm he does pay.
He was informed by his accountant in Tenerife last week that he should take the advert off the web as he was acting illegal and could possibly be fined. The complex that the apartment was on had his apartment on a rental contract for 3 years up until 2008 but would no renew they they said they had so many apartments to fill they would not renew his rental contract. So left high and dry?
The only people who will get rich in Tenerife are agents of the complex,s It will be a good business to be in no up front expenses hundred of thousands of euros in other peoples property left in their hands to run their business Nice little earner. This cannot be legal I,m sure if enough people made a stink and took it to european court of justice I think you would find it would be found illegal in trading terms. Don t every one say its already been done I,ve read the post,s but I mean a legal charge by not just one or two people but thousands of owners this is totally injust:crazy:
Lets all go to court and protest
Monday the 9th of January 2012
Get a posse together
See you there 8 O'clock sharp
welshman
19-11-2011, 16:11
Lets all go to court and protest
Monday the 9th of January 2012
Get a posse together
See you there 8 O'clock sharp
I see obb and Knob has thank you for your quote. I have no vested interest in whats going on as I own in Portugal But people must think they may retire out there but one day may require to return home through various problems ill health and may need to sell their property. With all thats going on its going to be very difficult to sell residential property. Present situations can change very quickly.
It's all for the greater good of the Canary Islands
It's all for the greater good of the Canary Islands
Are you Jimbo's replacement 9P? :wink2:
mmm
Not sure about your personal comments, BUT
As you will have read, the main theme running through the posts is that this is not a new law - yes its enforcement might be, but the law itself has been in place now for almost 16 years.
Anyone who has bought a "residential" property over this period of time has either known all along that a clamp-down on letting to the tourist market was a significant risk at some point, and has chosen to take that risk, and if they didn't (or still don't) should have done more research and used scrupulous agents/abogados/advisors before parting with their life savings or taking on loans they could afford without having to rely on an income from letting the property illegally to the tourist market.
The current clamp-down on illegal letting may well have some effect on the value of residential property but frankly most properties had considerably over inflated values in the first instance, and current values as they stand now have far more to do with the general economic climate (particularly here in Spain) than the implimentation of the letting law.
Red Devil
19-11-2011, 16:48
Just a thought, but does anyone actually know of anyone who has had a fine issued to then as a direct result of their own advert anywhere?
I know the circumstances of 2 of the people who have received fines - in both cases they advertised their property to rent through a third party agent and it was the agent who was checked upon by the authorities, therefore the list of owners on their books was easily obtained and easily checkable.
Obviously if you have a residential property being advertised for holiday lets through an agent there is no element of friends/family there.
Also one of the fined owners was on a tourist complex, the owner apparently didnt use the management company but another agent to advertise his property.
welshman
19-11-2011, 17:30
Business oppertunity. Just thought most of the fines are because of the internet advertising. Why don,t some one run a nation free paper once a month in UK for letting . Transfer all payment from owners direct, holiday lettings, holiday rentals , rent through this uk paper. At least it would not be on the nett and as most tourist are from UK. It could be a short term fix or advertise local news agent I,m sure there is money to be made?
Business oppertunity. Just thought most of the fines are because of the internet advertising. Why don,t some one run a nation free paper once a month in UK for letting . Transfer all payment from owners direct, holiday lettings, holiday rentals , rent through this uk paper. At least it would not be on the nett and as most tourist are from UK. It could be a short term fix or advertise local news agent I,m sure there is money to be made?
You're Fired...........:laugh:
welshman
19-11-2011, 17:40
Worth a Try L.O.L.:cheeky::wave::cheeky::wave::spin:
So it's working, all legal beds maybe filling up for the foreseeable future and then next year they can start to give out building licenses again for hotels etc
Creating work and expansion
It may work for you - it sure wont work for me with three teenagers in tow! Can't see it's going to work for the Bar and Restaurant owners where we go around Oasis Del Sur, El Mirador Strip etc.
I can't afford two rooms in a hotel (there are few who take 5 people in one room), and if it all works out as intimated in other posts, and there are going to be that many fewer apartments, it doesn't look like I will be able to afford them either. So after 10 consecutive and ridiculously happy years coming to Tenerife, it looks like I will have to be looking elsewhere!
welshman
19-11-2011, 18:34
It may work for you - it sure wont work for me with three teenagers in tow! Can't see it's going to work for the Bar and Restaurant owners where we go around Oasis Del Sur, El Mirador Strip etc.
I can't afford two rooms in a hotel (there are few who take 5 people in one room), and if it all works out as intimated in other posts, and there are going to be that many fewer apartments, it doesn't look like I will be able to afford them either. So after 10 consecutive and ridiculously happy years coming to Tenerife, it looks like I will have to be looking elsewhere!
I think there will be many many more of you doing the same :mad::mad::mad::mad::wave::wave::wave::wave:
Tom & Sharon
19-11-2011, 19:34
I see obb and Knob has thank you for your quote. I have no vested interest in whats going on as I own in Portugal But people must think they may retire out there but one day may require to return home through various problems ill health and may need to sell their property. With all thats going on its going to be very difficult to sell residential property. Present situations can change very quickly.
:raspberry2:...................................... ..........................................
It may work for you - it sure wont work for me with three teenagers in tow! Can't see it's going to work for the Bar and Restaurant owners where we go around Oasis Del Sur, El Mirador Strip etc.
I can't afford two rooms in a hotel (there are few who take 5 people in one room), and if it all works out as intimated in other posts, and there are going to be that many fewer apartments, it doesn't look like I will be able to afford them either. So after 10 consecutive and ridiculously happy years coming to Tenerife, it looks like I will have to be looking elsewhere!
Isolated case there is ONLY you an your partner to blame for that
jogger321
19-11-2011, 22:36
I see on another forum that alleges to tell "holiday truths" there is a story about one of the residential complexes much discussed on here getting hit with fines
Isolated case there is ONLY you an your partner to blame for that
What an extraordinarily rude and ridiculous response!
Angusjim
20-11-2011, 09:18
When is the 6 month deadline up for the people who have appealed against their fines
What an extraordinarily rude and ridiculous response!
Myself, the Wife and our 4 teenagers trotted along to the local Volkswagen showroom just the other day.
Looking for a car...
We all found it a great shock that we'd have to spend €38000 for something suitable because its impossible to fit all of us in a normal sized car.
Is the problem we are encountering down to the MOT station, Our insurance broker, Volkswagen, the Guardia Civil, the man who sits on a banana box in Valle San Lorenzo, the petrol station or the third-party company the makes those little fuses underneath the steering wheel ?
It isn't either one is it Murph...
Why can't Volkswagen just make us a special car and not declare it so we can have the car we want for a lot less ?
Regardless of whether you think my response was extraordinarily rude and ridiculous
Can you not find a 3 bed legal apartment or the like in Tenerife or something other than the same apartment/s you've used for the last 10 years without it being a hotel ?
Are you saying that after your 10 consecutive and ridiculously happy years coming to Tenerife have you only been using illegal accommodation ?
If so that's one of the many reasons WHY the Canarian Government want change.
They want to get their hands on that hidden economy.
Angusjim
20-11-2011, 09:42
Myself, the Wife and our 4 teenagers trotted along to the local Volkswagen showroom just the other day.
Looking for a car...
We all found it a great shock that we'd have to spend €38000 for something suitable because its impossible to fit all of us in a normal sized car.
Is the problem we are encountering down to the MOT station, Our insurance broker, Volkswagen, the Guardia Civil, the man who sits on a banana box in Valle San Lorenzo, the petrol station or the third-party company the makes those little fuses underneath the steering wheel ?
It isn't either one is it Murph...
Why can't Volkswagen just make us a special car and not declare it so we can have the car we want for a lot less ?
Regardless of whether you think my response was extraordinarily rude and ridiculous
Can you not find a 3 bed legal apartment or the like in Tenerife or something other than the same apartment/s you've used for the last 10 years without it being a hotel ?
Are you saying that after your 10 consecutive and ridiculously happy years coming to Tenerife have you only been using illegal accommodation ?
If so that's one of the many reasons WHY the Canarian Government want change.
They want to get their hands on that hidden economy.
That would be great if they were clamping down on the whole of the black economy in Tenerife but they seem to be picking on one sector Tenerife / Spain would a lot better if the locals could grasp the theory of declaring all their earnings and paying their taxes
they are thats one of the reason they've a whole load of work inspectors recently
To try and combat some of the other main hidden economies.
If you read the papers and the offical boletins you'll see they've made numerous cases
Didn't you hear about the mass arrests made just the other week?
Peterrayner
20-11-2011, 10:12
As far has the official Boletins are concerned there are far more inspctions and fines being levied against commercial businesses bars travel agencies etc than against private owners.
Thats not much comfort to the owners concerned and the fines levied seem hugely dissproportionate to the alleged crimes.
The initial fines levied on our complex where issued on 2nd June and appeals lodged 6th June.
I understand a high level meeting with several lawyers acting for owners involved and the Minister of Tourismo took place on 15th November. there should be some "update" from this meeting this week.
welshman
20-11-2011, 11:42
Myself, the Wife and our 4 teenagers trotted along to the local Volkswagen showroom just the other day.
Looking for a car...
We all found it a great shock that we'd have to spend €38000 for something suitable because its impossible to fit all of us in a normal sized car.
Is the problem we are encountering down to the MOT station, Our insurance broker, Volkswagen, the Guardia Civil, the man who sits on a banana box in Valle San Lorenzo, the petrol station or the third-party company the makes those little fuses underneath the steering wheel ?
It isn't either one is it Murph...
Why can't Volkswagen just make us a special car and not declare it so we can have the car we want for a lot less ?
Regardless of whether you think my response was extraordinarily rude and ridiculous
Can you not find a 3 bed legal apartment or the like in Tenerife or something other than the same apartment/s you've used for the last 10 years without it being a hotel ?
Are you saying that after your 10 consecutive and ridiculously happy years coming to Tenerife have you only been using illegal accommodation ?
If so that's one of the many reasons WHY the Canarian Government want change.
They want to get their hands on that hidden economy.
If its all about paying tax why have a friend of mine who has paid their tax on rentals since 2006 when they purchased in Touristic complex been informed to stop advertising by their accountant in Tenerife incase they get a fine for illegal letting. Its a total shambles out three perhaps the new Spanish government being voted in have a little more sence, and simplify
I didn't say it was ALL ABOUT TAX
Are your friends the sole letting agent in that Touristic complex ?
Also to add it doesn't really matter who get voted in today as they are National and the Tourism law this thread is about is regional to the Canaries
So shouldn't make a blind bit of difference
Peterrayner
20-11-2011, 12:32
This is list of complexes on which private owners have been notified during November this year of fines for advertising their apartments on websites.
Dinastia, Los Cristianos
El Mirador, Los Cristianos
Sur y Sol, Los Cristianos
El Marqués Palace, Puerto Santiago
Balcón de los Gigantes, Puerto Santiago
Los Geranios, Playa de las Américas
Mirador del Sur, San Eugenio
Port Royale, Los Cristianos
THis is not an exclusive or all inclusive list becaue other owners have received notifiction direct to their UK or Spanish or Home address and therefore not included in the Boletin listings it would.
delderek
20-11-2011, 12:44
If its all about paying tax why have a friend of mine who has paid their tax on rentals since 2006 when they purchased in Touristic complex been informed to stop advertising by their accountant in Tenerife incase they get a fine for illegal letting. Its a total shambles out three perhaps the new Spanish government being voted in have a little more sence, and simplify
Nothing to stop you advertising privately, provided the apartment is registered, and let through the sole agent, and/or the sole agent gets his comission.
Solution:- Change their accountant
Just had one of the owners inform me that MArcos Cabrera the accountant in Los Cristianos has sent letters to all his client base warning them of a client of his who received an 18000 euro fine - very responsible of him.
Nothing to stop you advertising privately, provided the apartment is registered, and let through the sole agent, and/or the sole agent gets his comission.
The inspectors dont seem to have a problem with this when our complex was visited they wanted to make sure all the apartments were registered and those not were given 15 days to do so I do my own lets and the cleaning ect is taken care by the onsite management .
Peterrayner
20-11-2011, 13:39
Copy of letter refered to....
09-11-2011
Dear Client,
This is only a quick note to inform you that we have today received a letter from the Canarian Tourist Board requesting a fine of 18.000 euros from a non-resident client with a property in Los Cristianos.
The Tourist Board found his property advertised on the Internet with his personal name for holiday letting (they attached copy of the Web Page)and it was not registered in the Tourist Board, and the Book for Tourist Inspections and the claiming book were not available (obviously it cannot be until registered and this is not possible for single apartments).
Please note that we are presenting the Income Tax on letting on your behalf to the Tax Office, therefore you are complying with the Tax Office declaring your incomes, but remember that your property must be registered with the Tourist Board (through only one possible exploitation company in the complex) if you rent to holiday makers, to avoid possible fines.
Obviously long term rentals are not affected bythe Tourist Law.
We do not agree with this system, as we think that the Economy of the Islands will be very much affected by cutting down all the holidaymakers brought to occupy all the private apartments still not registered with the Tourist Board, but we wanted to inform you of the risks involved with the Tourist Board, as this is the second client of ours which is affected (the first one was in La Gomera, and also advertised in the Web).
For this client now affected we will be sending a list of Englishspeaking solicitors, to consider the possibility of appealing.
Best Regards Marcos Cabrera
It would seem that the fines are not for illegal lettings or advertising on the web but for not displaying information about the "libro de reclamaciones" and not providing a libro de reclamaciones.Every business in Spain has to provide this complaints book for its clients and not to do so will result in a large fine.Of course, if your business isn't legal in the first place then you can't get hold of this "libro de reclamaciones" because it is only available to businesses which are correctly registered and legal. However the fines will be difficult if not impossible to contest as they have been issued for something which is illegal througout Spain.
Peterrayner
20-11-2011, 13:53
Thats not strictly correct IMHO
what the Boletin notice actually states is
Los hechos anteriormente reseñados se desprenden de la publicidad e información contenidas en la correspondiente página web y del informe emitido por el Servicio de Inspección de Turismo de fecha 20 de octubre de 2010.
Which basically says the fines are levied based on an advertisment of illegal lettings on an internet web site which was inspected on 20th October 2010.
It follows therefore legally that other technical breeches must follow... ie lack of the complaints book and the offical notice of a complaints book.
Red Devil
20-11-2011, 14:04
But one of the ones on that list is on a touristic complex and the owner doesnt advertise privately but through a 3rd party agent - are we sure the ones fined on the residential lists also dont advertise through an agent?
As said many many times, a shambles.
But the fines are for Touristically exploiting apartments without the necessary autorization
Peterrayner
20-11-2011, 14:10
Then presumably that owner wasnt able to registered to let with the sole agency or had simply failed to register even though he was on a touristic site
Myself, the Wife and our 4 teenagers trotted along to the local Volkswagen showroom just the other day.
Looking for a car...
We all found it a great shock that we'd have to spend €38000 for something suitable because its impossible to fit all of us in a normal sized car.
Is the problem we are encountering down to the MOT station, Our insurance broker, Volkswagen, the Guardia Civil, the man who sits on a banana box in Valle San Lorenzo, the petrol station or the third-party company the makes those little fuses underneath the steering wheel ?
It isn't either one is it Murph...
Why can't Volkswagen just make us a special car and not declare it so we can have the car we want for a lot less ?
Regardless of whether you think my response was extraordinarily rude and ridiculous
Can you not find a 3 bed legal apartment or the like in Tenerife or something other than the same apartment/s you've used for the last 10 years without it being a hotel ?
Are you saying that after your 10 consecutive and ridiculously happy years coming to Tenerife have you only been using illegal accommodation ?
If so that's one of the many reasons WHY the Canarian Government want change.
They want to get their hands on that hidden economy.
You Gleefully choose to miss half the point here 9plus!
In my original reply to a quote, I referred not only to the cost of hotels, but the fact that the price of Legal Touristic apartments will increase out of all recognition.
Incidentally, going back through our ten years of visiting the island, it would appear we have only ever stayed once in illegal accommodation, reinforcing the point that I am happy to stick to the rules, but fear the future if the amount of available rental accommodation is reduced dramatically - as it appears it will be!
In my original reply to a quote, I referred not only to the cost of hotels, but the fact that the price of Legal Touristic apartments will increase out of all recognition.
Speculation
Red Devil
20-11-2011, 15:05
Then presumably that owner wasnt able to registered to let with the sole agency or had simply failed to register even though he was on a touristic site
I'm sure you're right, he probably wasn't - I do know though that he didnt advertise it himself on a website so, following on from that, the inspectors must have picked him up from the advert with the agent?
That puts me back to my question 1409 - can anyone on some of the listed residential sites etc confirm whether they were advertising through an agent? ie were the inspectors using the agents' websites for this info?
Peterrayner
20-11-2011, 15:17
Yes. A neighbour was exactly in this position.
Red Devil
20-11-2011, 15:21
Yes. A neighbour was exactly in this position.
Which position though:) he was advertising via an agent or directly on a website himself?
Peterrayner
20-11-2011, 15:38
Using a local 3rd party agency who was advertising long and short lets and had their apartment listed on his website for short lets. Recieved their notification direct to their Tenerife saddrewss vai a registered letter collected from the Correos.
I have no intention of increasing the rates for our tourist board registered apartment we will just have to wait and see what others do but i dought that prices will go up they been the same on our complex for a number off years £245 for a 1 bed same as it was in 2004! the bookings i have for 2012-13 are at this years prices. David
Added after 6 minutes:
I know of a couple who use there apartment only 6 months a year and a agent said to them hed let it the rest they had no idea they were breaking the law the agent proceeded to advertise it complete with complex name apartment number and photos they were easy to find my lawyer has appealed there heafty fine. David
Red Devil
20-11-2011, 16:19
Using a local 3rd party agency who was advertising long and short lets and had their apartment listed on his website for short lets. Recieved their notification direct to their Tenerife saddrewss vai a registered letter collected from the Correos.
Thanks Peter - that confirms what has also happened with the two I def know about.
So the knocking on doors/ trawling through websites of private individuals who are not advertising through a third party is only speculation so far unless we hear otherwise?
rolleyes2:
Peterrayner
20-11-2011, 16:41
just to clarify
They have levied fines for
owners advertising soley through 3rd party agencies
owners advertising diectly through web sites without rd party agency involvment.
Have no direct knowledge of inspections on site ie knocking on doors.
The knocking on doors scenario almost paints a picture of a house-to-house search - I don't think that has happened as such, otherwise it would have been well reported. However, I can confirm that inspectors have visited complexes, in fact I would suggest they have probably visited most complexes, and rather than banging on doors they just ask "innocent" stylee questions to anyone they happen to bump into.
I live on a quiet residential complex on the west coast - with, to my knowledge, no illegal holiday letting taking place - it's not the kind of place that would appeal - but they have been here and they have asked.
Peterrayner
20-11-2011, 17:09
As I said I have no direct knowledge of them knocking on doors
but they have visited the Administrator and taken details of owners from them.
I have direct knowledge of them visiting a letting agent and taking owners details from them.
boredinscotland
20-11-2011, 17:25
A registered letter was delivered to me in El Mirador, I was not there and letter was returned to Post Office, as I have now sold the apartment, when search was done for any debt on the property 2 weeks ago,nothing came up regarding debt,,,I take it now maybe this was a fine for renting
Red Devil
20-11-2011, 17:33
A registered letter was delivered to me in El Mirador, I was not there and letter was returned to Post Office, as I have now sold the apartment, when search was done for any debt on the property 2 weeks ago,nothing came up regarding debt,,,I take it now maybe this was a fine for renting
Sorry to hear that- apparently if you put your NIE no. in a google search (missing out any dashes) it will show if there is anything against you, or doing it the long winded way on www.gobcan.es then click on BOC on left, you can scroll through daily bulletins
ha ha well dodged ! The fine will be in your name not on the property, I'd say you got away with it!!!
Added after 10 minutes:
This is really interesting though. Previously when fines were issued it was for not having the authorization from the tourist board to rent, and now it's 2 separate infractions 1. not having the libro de inspeccion and 2. not having the claim forms.
Both bits of paperwork are impossible for anyone to get but this is a significant change in how they attack people.
Added after 4 minutes:
oooh I'm wrong. I've just read through a few of the fines, some are as previously stated about the claim forms and inspection book but another from CLub Atlantis is fined for :
Letting without the authorization;
Explotar turísticamente el apartamento nº xxx del Complejo denominado Club Atlantis sin tener la preceptiva autorización de la Administración turística competente, lo que se desprende del anuncio en la correspondiente página web, así como de la hoja de registro de clientes y solicitud de reserva, cuyas fotocopias se adjuntan.
So maybe residential complexes get hit for not having the claim forms and inspection book and those on registered complexes such as Club Atlantis who aren't with the nsite management get hit the old way.
Intwesting!
and another got done on El Mirador for 1. not having the claim forms, 2. not having inspoection book, and 3. not showing the sign saying claim forms are available!
Added after 17 minutes:
I just went on holiday Lettings and El Mirador now only has 1 advertiser http://www.holidaylettings.co.uk/el-mirador,-tenerife/
I found the following quotation from the accountant's letter posted by Peter very interesting;
"We do not agree with this system, as we think that the Economy of the Islands will be very much affected by cutting down all the holidaymakers brought to occupy all the private apartments still not registered with the Tourist Board, but we wanted to inform you of the risks involved with the Tourist Board, as this is the second client of ours which is affected (the first one was in La Gomera, and also advertised in the Web)"
I hope that line of thinking sinks in with a few more...
seanocelt
20-11-2011, 18:56
Loaded, think you are correct, as i said, i looked for accom for friends in Feb (your place is full again, well done), and El Mirador and Dinastia seem to have all but gone on holidaylettngs.com. Cant blame folks its a big fine if all true.
A registered letter was delivered to me in El Mirador, I was not there and letter was returned to Post Office, as I have now sold the apartment, when search was done for any debt on the property 2 weeks ago,nothing came up regarding debt,,,I take it now maybe this was a fine for renting
Well Jim a lucky escape you can now tell them to f--- go away as you nothing they can put the debt to. David
Just wondering if the doubters like Hughsyb are about and wish to comment?
Peterrayner
20-11-2011, 19:13
I just went on holiday Lettings and El Mirador now only has 1 advertiser
IIRC the name of the owner is one of those listed on the 2 recent Boletins that list the El Mirador fines.
She is possible unaware of the fine and therefore still advertising in blissful ignorance.
A registered letter was delivered to me in El Mirador, I was not there and letter was returned to Post Office, as I have now sold the apartment, when search was done for any debt on the property 2 weeks ago,nothing came up regarding debt,,,I take it now maybe this was a fine for renting
I would still try to retrieve the burofax - if it was a fine for renting and attaching personally to you, you would not want it processed against you as it could ruin your credit history in Spain
IIRC the name of the owner is one of those listed on the 2 recent Boletins that list the El Mirador fines.
She is possible unaware of the fine and therefore still advertising in blissful ignorance.
Not any more shes not!
Peterrayner
20-11-2011, 19:40
Not any more shes not!
Has someone informed her ?
Has someone informed her ?
I did as you say its still possable there not aware of the fine but if not aware of illegal letting they have been burying there head in the sand i realy thought they should know. david
boredinscotland
20-11-2011, 22:49
Googled my name and NIE, nothing came up
Peterrayner
21-11-2011, 08:52
I just went on holiday Lettings and El Mirador now only has 1 advertiser http://www.holidaylettings.co.uk/el-mirador,-tenerife/
and at least one agency advetising
http://www.holidaylettings.co.uk/rentals/los-cristianos/14492
jogger321
21-11-2011, 10:56
and at least one agency advetising
http://www.holidaylettings.co.uk/rentals/los-cristianos/14492
So in addition to dear old ******* on El Mirador who is mentioned on the bulletin who they believe had breached the law, there is another who continues to advertise
Peterrayner
21-11-2011, 11:05
Well it would appear so the difference this appears to be a UK based company with all transaction done in the UK presumably in Sterling and all incomes declared in the UK.
Not sure howthe inspectors would deal with this instance...????
Not sure howthe inspectors would deal with this instance...????
They may have an interesting reception the next time they land at a Tenerife airport! lol.
Peterrayner
21-11-2011, 11:33
They may have an interesting reception the next time they land at a Tenerife airport! lol.
:nono: Not sure how that would work. They are advertising as a UK based agency.
:nono: Not sure how that would work. They are advertising as a UK based agency.
also NO ONE EVER seems to check passports on arrival at Tenerife Sur. ???
delderek
21-11-2011, 12:12
:nono: Not sure how that would work. They are advertising as a UK based agency.
also NO ONE EVER seems to check passports on arrival at Tenerife Sur. ???
But API has to be completed before you fly. Which has all details.
Red Devil
21-11-2011, 12:39
But API has to be completed before you fly. Which has all details.
Not sure what you are implying there? the airlines collect passport details when passenger flies with them but you don't supply any other info.
Peterrayner
21-11-2011, 12:45
But API has to be completed before you fly. Which has all details.
Names and passport numbers IIRC.
How would they relate that to a based agency name TENERIFE HOLIDAY HOMES. ??? I am sure they must be a way but its far from straightforward I would imagine.
Added after 2 minutes:
Names and passport numbers IIRC.
How would they relate that to a UK based agency name TENERIFE HOLIDAY HOMES. I am sure they must be a way but its far from straightforward I would imagine.
atlantico
21-11-2011, 12:52
Well it would appear so the difference this appears to be a UK based company with all transaction done in the UK presumably in Sterling and all incomes declared in the UK.
Not sure howthe inspectors would deal with this instance...????
why would they treat it any differently ? It's still breaking the law, I assume though that they'd be less likely to find and prove rental income, but its illegal to Advertise, so job done
Peterrayner
21-11-2011, 13:08
why would they treat it any differently ? It's still breaking the law, I assume though that they'd be less likely to find and prove rental income, but its illegal to Advertise, so job done
I agree advertising short lets on an agency site is illegal and I would presume they could simply attach a notification of the fine to the company via the Boletins. They could simply make a booking inquiry to obtain full contact details I would imagine.
Local agencies have received hefty fines notices recently 60,000E and upwards.
My question is not about the legality but rather about enforcing such a sanction on a UK based company rather than a locally based one.
If its all about paying tax why have a friend of mine who has paid their tax on rentals since 2006 when they purchased in Touristic complex been informed to stop advertising by their accountant in Tenerife incase they get a fine for illegal letting. Its a total shambles out three perhaps the new Spanish government being voted in have a little more sence, and simplify
This law has nothing to do with the Spanish Government, it's a local law which was passed by the Canarian government
Tom & Sharon
21-11-2011, 14:49
One of the independent villas on our complex is owned by a UK property rental company. It is also advertised for rental on that UK company website.
I really hope they get caught. Because it is an independent villa, they seem to think that the community rules don't apply to them, and also evidently Canarian law. They think they are being clever.
If the said properties are owned by the company, then surely any fine issued against the company could be enforced with an embargo on the property.
moonlighter
21-11-2011, 14:53
I'm surprised you haven't shopped them.
Just wondering if the doubters like Hughsyb are about and wish to comment?
I'm about! Sure, if you'd like me to comment, then I will.
An alleged 17 extra inspectors were taken on at the beginning of this year to stop all illegal holiday renting in the Canaries during 2011.
In 11 months, the number of properties in the Canaries (mostly residential) being advertised on the 3 main holiday rental sites has in fact risen by 553, which includes a further rise in the past 3 weeks. By the end of the year, there will be a large net increase in the number of properties in the 12 months.
As this is the only true yardstick which can be used to measure progress, and bearing in mind there are many more new properties being added all the time to other websites, they have clearly failed in their task. The question of course is whether they seriously intended to do so from the outset. Issuing a miniscule number of fines in comparison with the tens of thousands of properties, will have no impact whatsoever.
I repeat once again what I said in May this year............
The authorities have no intention of stopping all illegal letting in residential properties in the Canaries.
They are looking at changing the law to bring these properties into the framework of the existing law.
In the meantime, SOME FINES WILL BE ISSUED.
The clampdown continues.
Nice to see Hughsyb is back: 1816
Peterrayner
21-11-2011, 17:52
I can t see where those figures quoted could be accurate.... at least not for Tenerife.
A casual clance at Owners Direct and Holiday Lettings will see a hugh drop in the advertised privatel owned apartment accommodation. ????
I can t see where those figures quoted could be accurate.... at least not for Tenerife.
A casual clance at Owners Direct and Holiday Lettings will see a hugh drop in the advertised privatel owned apartment accommodation. ????
According to another forum, the number of properties available on residential complexes has dropped to almost zero in the last week.
In that case Peter wouldn't they just put it to the owner of the apartment or even the apartment itself?
I can t see where those figures quoted could be accurate.... at least not for Tenerife.
A casual clance at Owners Direct and Holiday Lettings will see a hugh drop in the advertised privatel owned apartment accommodation. ????
I can assure you these figures are most certainly correct. Why don't you go onto the websites yourself and check them? The up to date figures are readily available.
Hughsyb why are they fining if they are going to bring these properties into the framework of the existing law?
To gather a couple of thousand euros thats all?
What is interesting is that they now fining people for not having claim forms and inspection books which I think may be different to the first round of fines which are about to possibly expire...... Does anyone have a copy of one of the first round of fines so I can compare it to the latest ones?
What is interesting is that they now fining people for not having claim forms and inspection books which I think may be different to the first round of fines which are about to possibly expire...... Does anyone have a copy of one of the first round of fines so I can compare it to the latest ones?
Yes, I was wondering if it was a new way of expressing the fines in the hope of getting around any appeal that maybe had claimed the fines were unconstitutional or something.
If you contact Janet ********, she might let you see a copy of one of the original fines that was being appealed to see if the wording now differs :)
yes I think it's a new way of getting them fined without using the usual methods. Same result and harder to appeal I would imagine.
It's one way around the "friends and family" claims....
Hughsyb why are they fining if they are going to bring these properties into the framework of the existing law?
To gather a couple of thousand euros thats all?
No, because changing the law takes a long time.
Peterrayner
21-11-2011, 19:25
What is interesting is that they now fining people for not having claim forms and inspection books which I think may be different to the first round of fines which are about to possibly expire...... Does anyone have a copy of one of the first round of fines so I can compare it to the latest ones?
Yes I have a copy of the original fines issued in July and the fines were issued on the basis that the apartments were being advertised illegally on the internet and for expressing the bookings on the co-responding web page.
Yes I agree they seem to have changed this approach and are issuing fines for not complying with a requirment for having a complaints book and for not havign a sign to state the complaints book is available and finally for advertising illegally on the internet.
This could well be on legal advice following the first batch of appeals. :mad:
seanocelt
21-11-2011, 20:03
I can t see where those figures quoted could be accurate.... at least not for Tenerife.
A casual clance at Owners Direct and Holiday Lettings will see a hugh drop in the advertised privatel owned apartment accommodation. ????
Been having more than a casual glance looking for accom for friends. The availability in Tenerife has been DECIMATED, maybe Hughsby's calculations would be better ,compared like for like I.E. May 2011/May2012. Cant be done now though. The word on the street here is, people have got scared so pulled ads, and i believe it.
Peterrayner
21-11-2011, 20:15
yes I think it's a new way of getting them fined without using the usual methods. Same result and harder to appeal I would imagine.
Agreed
It's one way around the "friends and family" claims....
As you no doubt expect I wouldnt agree with this. The arent "clients" and they arent paying rent so cant complain. :)
Been having more than a casual glance looking for accom for friends. The availability in Tenerife has been DECIMATED, maybe Hughsby's calculations would be better ,compared like for like I.E. May 2011/May2012. Cant be done now though. The word on the street here is, people have got scared so pulled ads, and i believe it.
I can give you comparisons, and these are actual figures, not "calculations".
END AUGUST 2011.
OD 794 properties in Tenerife
HR 1379 proprties in Tenerife
HL 859 properties in Tenerife
Total 3032
TODAY
OD 772 properties in Tenerife
HR 1377 proprties in Tenerife
HL 840 properties in Tenerife
Total 2989
So in 3 months, a small drop of 43, and more than compensated by extra properties on other islands.
So as usual with most "word on the street" - talk of decimation for availability is grossly exaggerated.
Doesn't really matter if there a few more adverts or a few less
What matters is after the appeals do they pass the fines or not
Whats that? A drop in numbers of 43? Over 30 owners fined in the last Month?
The clampdown continues!
Peterrayner
21-11-2011, 21:24
In 11 months, the number of properties in the Canaries (mostly residential) being advertised on the 3 main holiday rental sites has in fact risen by 553, which includes a further rise in the past 3 weeks. By the end of the year, there will be a large net increase in the number of properties in the 12 months.
I So in 3 months, a small drop of 43, and more than compensated by extra properties on other islands.
So as usual with most "word on the street" - talk of decimation for availability is grossly exaggerated.
I am confused. ???
I can give you comparisons, and these are actual figures, not "calculations".
END AUGUST 2011.
OD 794 properties in Tenerife
HR 1379 proprties in Tenerife
HL 859 properties in Tenerife
Total 3032
TODAY
OD 772 properties in Tenerife
HR 1377 proprties in Tenerife
HL 840 properties in Tenerife
Total 2989
So in 3 months, a small drop of 43, and more than compensated by extra properties on other islands.
So as usual with most "word on the street" - talk of decimation for availability is grossly exaggerated.
These figures are still higher than the real situation
Some properties are actually registered on more than one of the sites you are checking
Also, the numbers you have given have reduced since your post, they are now
OD 772
HR 1376
HL 836
seanocelt
21-11-2011, 21:35
Sorry, you cannot compare Aug with any month other than....Aug! Demand/supply reasons....oh dear!
Sorry, you cannot compare Aug with any month other than....Aug! Demand/supply reasons....oh dear!
Sorry, it's pretty clear you don't know anything about these holiday rental websites. Suggest you have a look at the webpage with their prices and rental options....oh dear!
Sl on the space of a day on the 3 Main letting sites the figures have dropped by 5 ! In one day!
The clampdown continues!
So in 3 months, a small drop of 43, .
Is that most of the advertised apartments on El Mirador?
seanocelt
22-11-2011, 02:03
Is that most of the advertised apartments on El Mirador?
Mirador and Dinastia not available as much as before. Hughsby, i have used the sites for years, but, i will go back to my 6 months of silence on this thread as we have totally opposing views. I live on a residential complex in Tenerife that was used as an illegal letting heaven, and owners seem to be running scared, that tells me enough.
slodgedad
22-11-2011, 02:58
Mirador and Dinastia not available as much as before. Hughsby, i have used the sites for years, but, i will go back to my 6 months of silence on this thread as we have totally opposing views. I live on a residential complex in Tenerife that was used as an illegal letting heaven, and owners seem to be running scared, that tells me enough.
Exactly, Sean. Most owners who do the 'lets' will not post. Can you blame them?
The ones who are caught are usually the ostriches.
welshman
22-11-2011, 10:10
This law has nothing to do with the Spanish Government, it's a local law which was passed by the Canarian government
Sorry its not just a law in Canaries Its also in main land Spain and there has been a camp down there. Do you not think the government controls all Laws of the country what world are you living in. This law was in force in Portugal in 2008 in a similar form, which could not be inforced. Have a look at holiday letting in Portugal since 2008. You have to apply for individual Liecence 600 euros be inspected have basic safety requirements and pay your TAXES.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.4 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.