The Tenerife illegal lettings thread

[Kateh]

9plus, thank you for that. Do you have a link to the passing of the new law please?

[Rob.b]

I have tried to follow this thread ,and failed. So a quick question as somebody who is a yearly visitor ,and apartment renter in Tenerife? How can I tell weather the rental I have booked is legal or not? It never crossed my mind this market would be regulated! Are there any sanctions of those renting if the landlord gets caught?
Rob

[Angusjim]

maybe all who preach on here about the evils of illegal letting should practice what you preach:fishing:;)

[Chine]

So does this mean all property's advertised on sites on the internet are being illegally let out , if so why isn't action taken against these websites

[tfs1]

I have tried to follow this thread ,and failed. So a quick question as somebody who is a yearly visitor ,and apartment renter in Tenerife? How can I tell weather the rental I have booked is legal or not? It never crossed my mind this market would be regulated! Are there any sanctions of those renting if the landlord gets caught?
Rob

You may get an uncomfortable ride from those living in the other apartments where you stay by telling you daily that apartments are not to be rented !

[TOTO 99]

I have tried to follow this thread ,and failed. So a quick question as somebody who is a yearly visitor ,and apartment renter in Tenerife? How can I tell weather the rental I have booked is legal or not? It never crossed my mind this market would be regulated! Are there any sanctions of those renting if the landlord gets caught?
Rob

Easiest way is to name the block you're thinking of staying in....Someone will know if it's legal or not.

What you decide after that is up to you. I personally wouldn't let it worry me but seeing as you've taken the trouble to ask then it's obviously on your mind. Once we know where you want to stay one of us can point you in the direction of the nearest legal complex which should give you peace of mind..:tiphat:

[tfs1]

Easiest way is to name the block you're thinking of staying in....Someone will know if it's legal or not.

What you decide after that is up to you. I personally wouldn't let it worry me but seeing as you've taken the trouble to ask then it's obviously on your mind. Once we know where you want to stay one of us can point you in the direction of the nearest legal complex which should give you peace of mind..:tiphat:

However, even on legal tourist complexes there are a number renting their apartments illegally ie not through the sole agent.

[TOTO 99]

I think it should be reiterated for Rob that the holidaymaker isn't breaking any laws whatsoever so is never at risk of prosecution. That is only a risk for the property owner.

More risky in my opinion is who you choose to book with. You can't beat recommendation from someone you know. There are still quite a few scammers out there ready to take your money for a non existant deal.

[Angusjim]

I think it should be reiterated for Rob that the holidaymaker isn't breaking any laws whatsoever so is never at risk of prosecution. That is only a risk for the property owner.

More risky in my opinion is who you choose to book with. You can't beat recommendation from someone you know. There are still quite a few scammers out there ready to take your money for a non existant deal.

Some really nice properties in Owners Direct I assume these are all fully legal:dontknow::whistle:

[tfs1]

Some really nice properties in Owners Direct I assume these are all fully legal:dontknow::whistle:


Sadly they are not. You only had to look at the huge amount that disappeared overnight when the tourist police were at their height a year of two ago, there are still those illegals that are plodding away.

One could say that 'Owners Direct and legal' are a classic oxymoron.

[Muppet]

Welcome back thread!

[Angusjim]

Sadly they are not. You only had to look at the huge amount that disappeared overnight when the tourist police were at their height a year of two ago, there are still those illegals that are plodding away.

One could say that 'Owners Direct and legal' are a classic oxymoron.

More than you would think !! including some who vehemently oppose illegal letting on here:laugh:

[tfs1]

More than you would think !! including some who vehemently oppose illegal letting on here:laugh:

I'm sure you are right. I know of a few who only :liar: 'let close friends and family' use their apartment but are good enough to let them know when its free and also the rental costs (or is that a contribution to cover elec fees etc) by spending £299 a year telling them via Owners Direct.

[Ecky Thump]

Some really nice properties in Owners Direct I assume these are all fully legal:dontknow::whistle:

Maybe some of the forum members that advertise their property on these sites can put us in the pictutre. I know of one or two who have changed their opinion on this and now advertise quite openly.:confused:

[tfs1]

Maybe some of the forum members that advertise their property on these sites can put us in the pictutre. I know of one or two who have changed their opinion on this and now advertise quite openly.:confused:

aahhh, the sound of silence.

[Rob.b]

Thanks for the replies guys. I am not too concerned, just wanted to know what the situation was. Seems a pointless law to be as almost nobody takes any notice of it or is not aware of it. If only a handful of complexs in Los Chris that are legal I will have no hope in Golf Del Sur. Place would be a ghost town without the lettings market. The enxt apartment we are staying in is the same place as this year, so hopefully will 'get away with it'.
Rob

[delderek]

Thanks for the replies guys. I am not too concerned, just wanted to know what the situation was. Seems a pointless law to be as almost nobody takes any notice of it or is not aware of it. If only a handful of complexs in Los Chris that are legal I will have no hope in Golf Del Sur. Place would be a ghost town without the lettings market. The enxt apartment we are staying in is the same place as this year, so hopefully will 'get away with it'.
Rob

A few more than a handfull:

http://www.arona.travel/portal/turismo/lloc_d10_v6.jsp?codMenu=1105&codMenuPN=1088&codMenuSN=1098&numeroPagina=4

[tfs1]

A few more than a handfull:

http://www.arona.travel/portal/turismo/lloc_d10_v6.jsp?codMenu=1105&codMenuPN=1088&codMenuSN=1098&numeroPagina=4

and there are other complexes that are legally registered as Tourist complexes that don't appear on the list - very odd, will have to speak to our President the next time we are over.

[Ecky Thump]

aahhh, the sound of silence.

Maybe the sound of changed values, some of the most vocally opposed to the letting out of property on a residential site now value their income over their previous opinions or ideals! :-)

[tfs1]

Maybe the sound of changed values, some of the most vocally opposed to the letting out of property on a residential site now value their income over their previous opinions or ideals! :-)

ET I'm sure you are correct, we all like to make a bob or two but at the same time if you are illegal you tend also not to pay the required taxes etc that comes with rental income/profit, ie IGIC of 7% on all rental income and a further 25% on any profit.

It also has an impact on those renting these apartments, typically they are sole apartment owners, so if a problem happens they tend not to have expert backup and unable to move renters to another apartment if required.

Sole agents on a complex will have a number of possible other apartments to accomodate people if this happen at short notice.

Those in the UK who do this would be considered criminals getting away with not paying their dues etc, in Tenerife its accepted by many as the norm, sadly the system has allowed many to get away with it for years so I suppose why should anyone change.

[TOTO 99]

It also has an impact on those renting these apartments, typically they are sole apartment owners, so if a problem happens they tend not to have expert backup and unable to move renters to another apartment if required.

Sole agents on a complex will have a number of possible other apartments to accomodate people if this happen at short notice.

That's a bit strong.....:laugh:

[tfs1]

That's a bit strong.....:laugh:

if only you have met some of the owners I have met ! (good spot !)

[Angusjim]

Maybe some of the forum members that advertise their property on these sites can put us in the pictutre. I know of one or two who have changed their opinion on this and now advertise quite openly.:confused:

Yes perhaps they could now come on and explain why its OK for them to do this and argue the case against renting out illegally for everybody else:dontknow:

[delderek]

and there are other complexes that are legally registered as Tourist complexes that don't appear on the list - very odd, will have to speak to our President the next time we are over.

I have a feeling that a listing on that site has to be paid for. Another site has complete listings, but can't remember the details.

[essexeddie]

and there are other complexes that are legally registered as Tourist complexes that don't appear on the list - very odd, will have to speak to our President the next time we are over.

Don't forget your tin hat.

[tfs1]

:idea:
Don't forget your tin hat.

:idea: eddie, as you are over a few weeks before me would you mind having a word ? :wink2: Our president will probably have just the 2 words !

[essexeddie]

:idea:

:idea: eddie, as you are over a few weeks before me would you mind having a word ? :wink2: Our president will probably have just the 2 words !


Whooo! not so likely. Far too busy :knitting:

[treboreel]

Hello to all on this subject,
From what I understand from what you all have said, it appears that if I wished to rent an apartment for more than 3 months, say 4 months, the owner would then be renting legal, is this correct?

[Sundowner]

Hello to all on this subject,
From what I understand from what you all have said, it appears that if I wished to rent an apartment for more than 3 months, say 4 months, the owner would then be renting legal, is this correct?

Yes, that would be long term let = legal

[essexeddie]

That's how stupid these Spanish laws are.

[delderek]

Not quite that simple. for Long term lets legally you must have a contract, and to get a contract you have to have an NIE number. (I did say legally)

[treboreel]

Hello Delderek,
Thank you for your reply, I do understand what you have said!

[Angusjim]

Not quite that simple. for Long term lets legally you must have a contract, and to get a contract you have to have an NIE number. (I did say legally)

I never relized that, so most of if not all the swallows that rent for over 3 months are probably renting illegally maybe thinking everything is fully legal ?

[seanocelt]

you can get NIE as non resident Jim, Resident Certificate if staying over 6 months. But, aye, lot of swallows know owners, no contract, no tax!

[Angusjim]

you can get NIE as non resident Jim, Resident Certificate if staying over 6 months. But, aye, lot of swallows know owners, no contract, no tax!

I suppose I really should have known that as I had to get NIE when we had our apartment:ashamed: Do people avoid paying tax in Tenerife:eek::lol:
Hope all is well with you both

Jim

[Ecky Thump]

I suppose I really should have known that as I had to get NIE when we had our apartment:ashamed: Do people avoid paying tax in Tenerife:eek::lol:
Hope all is well with you both

Jim

As far as tax evasion goes, then its not much difference than the UK where there are thousands of unregulated B&B's where the owners declare nothing and I would imagine that there is far more money involved in the UK than in Tenerife.

[Red Devil]

Originally Posted by 9PLUS
Update: "New 2013 tourism law was approved in full yesterday (21 of April 2015) by the Canarian parliament following its end-of-first-year review".

"Please be aware, to avoid confusion, that this new law has not "just been approved", it has been approved and in force since 2013! What has happened is that it has been ratified and confirmed with a few amendments (mainly in terms of hotel tourism), a procedure that's normal with Canarian law"

Information from you know where.


So, basically there is no change to the letting laws, only that there has been a review, confirmation and approval of the existing laws.
I understood that only applied to the tourist registered apartments?
There is a new urban lettings law (separate to existing tourism law) still under consideration regarding perhaps legalising the letting of individual apartments on residential complexes, subject to certain criteria?
As far as I am aware it is this criteria that still hasnt been agreed.
Sure someone will put me right if I have misunderstood the draft legislation

[bulldog]

Originally Posted by 9PLUS
Update: "New 2013 tourism law was approved in full yesterday (21 of April 2015) by the Canarian parliament following its end-of-first-year review".

"Please be aware, to avoid confusion, that this new law has not "just been approved", it has been approved and in force since 2013! What has happened is that it has been ratified and confirmed with a few amendments (mainly in terms of hotel tourism), a procedure that's normal with Canarian law"

Information from you know where.


So, basically there is no change to the letting laws, only that there has been a review, confirmation and approval of the existing laws.
I understood that only applied to the tourist registered apartments?
There is a new urban lettings law (separate to existing tourism law) still under consideration regarding perhaps legalising the letting of individual apartments on residential complexes, subject to certain criteria?
As far as I am aware it is this criteria that still hasnt been agreed.
Sure someone will put me right if I have misunderstood the draft legislation

I agree,ASCAV who seem to be getting the furthest with things seem to be going on about bed & breakfast all the time local homes having the
right to let out rooms in their home never really a mention about apartments or villas I suppose 20 years down the line it will still be only talk

[cressrt]

An update has just been posted "the Canarian Parliament has today approved the much awaited “regulación", go to THE SITE for the full text.

[Red Devil]

An update has just been posted "the Canarian Parliament has today approved the much awaited “regulación", go to THE SITE for the full text.

Thank you, have just this minute seen it!

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So, after a quick read it seems to be saying short term private rentals could now be allowed in non tourist areas but not in the holiday resorts? :dontknow:
Ok, so if I cant find accommodation where I want to stay in Los Cristianos I neednt worry, could always have a week in San Isidro rolleyes2:

[Angusjim]

As far as tax evasion goes, then its not much difference than the UK where there are thousands of unregulated B&B's where the owners declare nothing and I would imagine that there is far more money involved in the UK than in Tenerife.

I said avoid not evade:whistle:

[Ecky Thump]

I said avoid not evade:whistle:

So it's just like not telling your wife what pub you will be in! :D

[essexeddie]

you dont have to come here - whats wrong with staying in essex ???

I would if it was as sunny as here matey.

[treboreel]

I could be wrong and I am sure someone will point it out if I am, but the way I see it, if I or anyone else rented an apartment for say €450 per month on long term rental before the tax law became law, then the tax was added at maybe 25%, surely this would just put the monthly rent up to €562.50 a big increase I know, but that's life..................

[tfs1]

I could be wrong and I am sure someone will point it out if I am, but the way I see it, if I or anyone else rented an apartment for say €450 per month on long term rental before the tax law became law, then the tax was added at maybe 25%, surely this would just put the monthly rent up to €562.50 a big increase I know, but that's life..................

The tax on rentals is 7%.

Previous years the tax rate for personal income for non residents was 25.75% in January 2015 this was reduced to 20% and from January 2016 it will drop to 19%. If this is your only income in Tenerife ie from rental income, this tax is paid on net profits rather than total income.

[treboreel]

Hello tfs1,
Well of course that makes it even more easier that it's 7%, the main point I was making is, why is there so much of a problem getting a rental long term for say 3 or 4 months now than a few years ago?

[tfs1]

Hello tfs1,
Well of course that makes it even more easier that it's 7%, the main point I was making is, why is there so much of a problem getting a rental long term for say 3 or 4 months now than a few years ago?

Sorry can't help with that question but I'm sure somebody will have a view.

[delderek]

Hello tfs1,
Well of course that makes it even more easier that it's 7%, the main point I was making is, why is there so much of a problem getting a rental long term for say 3 or 4 months now than a few years ago?

Because the new Urban letting law is now in force, basically you can only let on a residential site in tourist area for Specific purposes, and letting to tourists is not one of the allowed purposes. Look at the J A site for full details. This is all in addition to the Tourist letting laws.

[treboreel]

OK, so if I was coming with a view to purchasing an apartment in a residential site, that would be an allowed purpose, it would have to be for 3 or 4 months to view the market?

[delderek]

OK, so if I was coming with a view to purchasing an apartment in a residential site, that would be an allowed purpose, it would have to be for 3 or 4 months to view the market?.

I doubt it, can't see it being that easy to get round the new Urban letting law.

[bonitatime]

The problem us there are no or very few new apartments
Buy to let is moving slowly and new jobs etc Siam mall are bringing more long term renters into the equation

[Arenquerojo]

If you want a way around the new law - go for an agricultural let. Can be any length - even a week. There is no need to do any work at all. It is legal on residential sites.

[9PLUS]

If you want a way around the new law - go for an agricultural let. Can be any length - even a week. There is no need to do any work at all. It is legal on residential sites.


how would that work then?

[Angusjim]

how would that work then?

Hows the clamp down coming along then;)

[9PLUS]

Hows the clamp down coming along then;)


New set of inspectors, fines up to €300,000 for illegal holiday letting, nothing you can do now it's all thumbs up. Ballpark fines of around €100,000-€150,000

Tourism have a bee in their bonnet...



The "agricultural let BS" is a no goer

[TOTO 99]

With respect, that's what they said last time.

Don't get me wrong, whilst I'm pro letting, they make the rules clear and if you get caught then it's a fair cop. But we all know it will still thrive in one form or another.
There will never be enough inspectors to cover the area. The existing ones will be overworked and mistakes will be made.
The giant fines may well be enough to frighten some off but again if 30k wasn't enough to scare the majority then probably nothing will.
300K?.....seriously?....The fines will be so ridiculous that they'll be uncollectable. Even £100k would be pushing it. It sounds good but the court cases alone would break the bank. And they'd be held up for a lifetime when challenged for being disproportionate.

But we shall see......Go Inspectors...:tiphat:

[9PLUS]

there was 7000+ fines handed out though

Not everyone got off scott-free

[welsh wendy]

[QUOTE=delderek;468489]Because the new Urban letting law is now in force, basically you can only let on a residential site in tourist area for Specific purposes, and letting to tourists is not one of the allowed purposes. Look at the J A site for full details. This is all in addition to the Tourist letting laws.

Where will I find the J A site please?

[9PLUS]

[QUOTE=delderek;468489]Because the new Urban letting law is now in force, basically you can only let on a residential site in tourist area for Specific purposes, and letting to tourists is not one of the allowed purposes. Look at the J A site for full details. This is all in addition to the Tourist letting laws.

Where will I find the J A site please?




On the internet



xx

[delderek]

[QUOTE=delderek;468489]Because the new Urban letting law is now in force, basically you can only let on a residential site in tourist area for Specific purposes, and letting to tourists is not one of the allowed purposes. Look at the J A site for full details. This is all in addition to the Tourist letting laws.

Where will I find the J A site please?

J A N E T A N S C O M B E without the spaces. Holiday lettings now refer to her site as the best source of information on illegal lettings. We unfortunately on this forum are not allowed to mention the name.

[Ecky Thump]

[QUOTE=welsh wendy;474288]


J A N E T A N S C O M B E without the spaces. Holiday lettings now refer to her site as the best source of information on illegal lettings. We unfortunately on this forum are not allowed to mention the name.

It's now a comedy that a persons name shouldn't be mentioned or a link to a certain website....


www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1O41RIKKDo
15 Oct 2009 - Uploaded by BBCWorldwide

:D

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there was 7000+ fines handed out though

Not everyone got off scott-free

That's "back pocket money", a Swedish car driver got fined €650,000 for speeding!:wow:

[welsh wendy]

[quote=9plus;474290][quote=welsh wendy;474288]




[i]
on the internet

oh really??? No way!!!:raspberry2:

[9PLUS]

[quote=9plus;474290][quote=welsh wendy;474288]





on the internet

oh really??? No way!!!:raspberry2:


could of been a camping site

[information]

whilst scum can steal up to 400€ and walk away with a slap on the wrist, rent out a room you will be treated as a criminal and made bankrupt. Sounds like we have moved to Russia.

[9PLUS]

whilst scum can steal up to 400€ and walk away with a slap on the wrist, rent out a room you will be treated as a criminal and made bankrupt. Sounds like we have moved to Russia.


You can rent out a room as long as you have the the correct licence. One thing has nothing to do with the other so can't be compared.

[TOTO 99]

You can rent out a room as long as you have the the correct licence. One thing has nothing to do with the other so can't be compared.

It's not the crimes that are being compared, it's the scale of the accompanying fines.

Steal 399 Euros.........Not even a fine.

Rent out your apartment.......150k..:wow:........or even 300k if the first example wasn't convincing enough.

God knows who dreamt those numbers up? More money for the solicitors......

[9PLUS]

That's my boy don't compare.

[Ecky Thump]

Everything in life is relative, so therefore must be comparative.


I think!. ;)

[information]

maybe if they made more effort to catch and punish the scum who make holiday makers life hell on a daily basis that would help the image of the Island. Anyone guilty of mugging or pick pocketing any amount, 300,000 € fine, can't pay ? it's 5 years in prison.

Guess that won't be happening anytime soon as they are too busy looking for easy targets.

[marbro8]

maybe if they made more effort to catch and punish the scum who make holiday makers life hell on a daily basis that would help the image of the Island. Anyone guilty of mugging or pick pocketing any amount, 300,000 € fine, can't pay ? it's 5 years in prison.

Guess that won't be happening anytime soon as they are too busy looking for easy targets.i agree as i have been a victim twice of the scumbag pickpockets, although i managed to stave off the second one, if there was more of a deterrent then they wouldn't do it.on the subject of the ridiculous fines for people wanting to make a little more income, to help pay for communal fees and such, then i am sure by now owners have a customer base? and as such, as long as they are not blaze about it, and are not advertising on the internet, then they should be ok. just stick to some basic rules and don't be greedy. only rent to people you trust or have rented to before. don't take any new renters unless they have been referred by a trusted renter,and you will stay under the radar. it still amazes me when walking around the complex we stay on that owners give away their rental business cards to anyone walking through the gaterolleyes2:

[delderek]

Amazes me, with fines of crazy proportions, why people still risk holiday letting, especially with the new urban VV law now in operation. Which means they cannot even be let to Swallows. And people letting on El Mirador and Dinastia which everyone knows are flouting the law, are In my opinion now taking an unacceptable risk.

[marbro8]

yes they are but i know owners that are booked up over a year in advance, that could mean approx £12,000-£15,000 in rental fees, from renters that have been regulars over a few years. so they don't have to advertise, so as long as the renters are happy and don't fall into the trap of blabbing to some inspector in a bar(which it has been known) then they should be ok. BUT and it is a big BUT, you have to rely on an awful lot of people to keep it quiet. and if you do get caught then you can say goodby to your apartment and lifestyle in the sun:(

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Amazes me, with fines of crazy proportions, why people still risk holiday letting, especially with the new urban VV law now in operation. Which means they cannot even be let to Swallows. And people letting on El Mirador and Dinastia which everyone knows are flouting the law, are In my opinion now taking an unacceptable risk.sorry forgot to quote you;)

[Ecky Thump]

Amazes me, with fines of crazy proportions, why people still risk holiday letting, especially with the new urban VV law now in operation. Which means they cannot even be let to Swallows. And people letting on El Mirador and Dinastia which everyone knows are flouting the law, are In my opinion now taking an unacceptable risk.

Some of the people that I know of, let out their property to survive financially, it's certainly not greed and I'm sure that they must worry at the thought of a massive fine, but that's what some people have been led into when they initially bought their property and were given false information by unscrupulous property agents.

[Faraway]

[QUOTE=welsh wendy;474288]


J A N E T A N S C O M B E without the spaces. Holiday lettings now refer to her site as the best source of information on illegal lettings. We unfortunately on this forum are not allowed to mention the name.

Why cant we mention her name??

[marbro8]

[QUOTE=delderek;474292]

Why cant we mention her name??i think it's because she is a banned memberrolleyes2:

[Faraway]

But why is she banned? Apologies I don't look on the forum much these days. If you want to PM perhaps it would be better?

[Ecky Thump]

[QUOTE=Faraway;475387]i think it's because she is a banned memberrolleyes2:

There's plenty of banned people, but she is "Especially Banned - Banished - Ostrosised - Binned - A Non Person." :D

[Faraway]

But why? I didn't know anyone was banned. What do they do to get banned?

[Ecky Thump]

But why is she banned? Apologies I don't look on the forum much these days. If you want to PM perhaps it would be better?

It's a long long story, I've been a member for years and can still not fathom it out, it now comes to just excepting it. ???

[Faraway]

Ok, thanks. I better shut up otherwise I will be banned too!

[Ecky Thump]

But why? I didn't know anyone was banned. What do they do to get banned?

I was banned, but forgiven, but for the life of me I can't work it out or the reasoning, it now comes to be very well behaved.....sort of!! :p

[marbro8]

Ok, thanks. I better shut up otherwise I will be banned too!and me because i have the same questions as you:lol:but don't worry, you would have to create 3 false seudenam's, pee every member off for weeks, advertise your business, be racist vicious and vindictive to everyone to be banned, and then it would be a close call:lol:sorry guys i edited that before you thanked me, so you can remove your thanks if you wish, but knowing ecky i know he won't:lol:

[Ecky Thump]

Now back on topic marbro8 where is this complex, I think you called it El Mirror or something like that and is it a nice place to stay?

[marbro8]

Now back on topic marbro8 where is this complex, I think you called it El Mirror or something like that and is it a nice place to stay?i don't know it looks nice from our room, i stay over the road at the revron:lol:

[Ecky Thump]

i don't know it looks nice from our room, i stay over the road at the revron:lol:

Strangely enough, I'm staying at the Reveron apartments in August...first time there.

[9PLUS]

No illegal renting, is there any inspectors? No, any one know anyone thats been fined? NO, F it im renting OUT, ill tell everyone im Paying Tax etc, yeah, no illegal renting, oh ****eshyt, its €18.000 fine now, yeah but this dude on the forum says stuff about Human rights and hitler and stuff, hahahahahaha the tourist board got it mostly wrong, hahahahahaha, lets rent, lets rent, yes lets, it will never get passed by the EU, broken, bregaron, braceen las thing is our savior, F Yeah, tourist board got it wrong, hahahahahaha, now the fine is €300000 oh now i dont understand why the fine is so high,

[delderek]

[QUOTE=delderek;474292]

Why cant we mention her name??

Goes back many years. The lady in question was a mod on here. Then a rival forum was formed (now ceased) and she joined that one and became a mod. Ever since there has been much vitriol on here towards that person. Toys out of the Pram sums it up.

[TOTO 99]

No illegal renting, is there any inspectors? No, any one know anyone thats been fined? NO, F it im renting OUT, ill tell everyone im Paying Tax etc, yeah, no illegal renting, oh ****eshyt, its €18.000 fine now, yeah but this dude on the forum says stuff about Human rights and hitler and stuff, hahahahahaha the tourist board got it mostly wrong, hahahahahaha, lets rent, lets rent, yes lets, it will never get passed by the EU, broken, bregaron, braceen las thing is our savior, F Yeah, tourist board got it wrong, hahahahahaha, now the fine is €300000 oh now i dont understand why the fine is so high,

2 words...Track Record......:whistle:

[Angusjim]

[QUOTE=Faraway;475387]

Goes back many years. The lady in question was a mod on here. Then a rival forum was formed (now ceased) and she joined that one and became a mod. Ever since there has been much vitriol on here towards that person. Toys out of the Pram sums it up.

She clearly didnae help that Forum:eek:, anyway her and TV's are no allowed on here and thats that :c2::lol:

[Sundowner]

[QUOTE=Faraway;475387]

Goes back many years. The lady in question was a mod on here. Then a rival forum was formed (now ceased) and she joined that one and became a mod. Ever since there has been much vitriol on here towards that person. Toys out of the Pram sums it up.

I think it was because the forum they set up was a copy of this one!
If you had an online business called "Tenerife sales" and one of your staff left and started a business called "the Tenerife sales"
copying your website you might also be p****d off.
This does not stop me looking at the ja website.....but does mean I understand the ban!

[delderek]

Everybody can understand the ban. Understanding why questioners on the forum can not even be told her name, is not understandable. Especially when the lady is recognised as the best source of information, on many important Tenerife questions.

[information]

off to the west coast of the USA soon and have booked this place;

https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/2072961?eluid=2&euid=4441a852-8ec8-fe6c-7957-873cfe11c95c

another option was this hotel;

http://www.marriott.com/reservation/rateListMenu.mi

Where would you prefer to stay, a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom house or a 2 bed single room for 4 people for 5 nights? Seems they know the answer over there as they have just introduced a 15% tax on all private lets as they know it is what the market wants. Let the clients decide how they wish to spend their money and holiday.

[9PLUS]

p'off then...............................dear

x

[information]

p'off then...............................dear

x

would you prefer me to p´off in bathroom 1 or bathroom 2 dear?

X

[phillip]

p'off then...............................dear

x

Why this thread degenerates into nasty personal comments is beyond me as everyone has their own view on this and also the right to express it. This whole issue has been a mess from start to finish and if anyone thinks that it is resolved - even with the new touristic law - then think again. It will no doubt run and run and there will be many twists and turns, but the bottom line is that the law should be obeyed whether agreed with or not - and anyone who does not will face the consequences of any fine levied.
But come one guys, give each other some respect and stop throwing petty insults that offer nothing to the core issue.

[Angusjim]

Why this thread degenerates into nasty personal comments is beyond me as everyone has their own view on this and also the right to express it. This whole issue has been a mess from start to finish and if anyone thinks that it is resolved - even with the new touristic law - then think again. It will no doubt run and run and there will be many twists and turns, but the bottom line is that the law should be obeyed whether agreed with or not - and anyone who does not will face the consequences of any fine levied.
But come one guys, give each other some respect and stop throwing petty insults that offer nothing to the core issue.

I think you do not get the 9Plus sense of humour he is a bit of rascal:laugh::spin: and keep in mind it is a Forum and as you say "everyone has their own view on this and also the right to express it" :tiphat:

[TOTO 99]

I think you do not get the 9Plus sense of humour he is a bit of rascal:laugh::spin: and keep in mind it is a Forum and as you say "everyone has their own view on this and also the right to express it" :tiphat:

No, Phillip is correct......

You're only sticking up for him because he's a fellow sparky...:fryingpan:

He may be better looking than you but you're a better electrician AJ....:laugh:

Anyway, call me when the inspectors get a 300k fine under their belts.....

[Angusjim]

No, Phillip is correct......

You're only sticking up for him because he's a fellow sparky...:fryingpan:

He may be better looking than you but you're a better electrician AJ....:laugh:

Anyway, call me when the inspectors get a 300k fine under their belts.....

And so it begins:whistle::raspberry2:

[9PLUS]

Shut it tonto99

[seanocelt]

All joking aside i know a few owners who do private hol lets that thumbed their noses at this for past few years, and now this weekend they seemed a lot more concerned awaiting the letter from the sole agent, and realising the tax free, do own cleaning and booking days, may be not worth the risk.

[Angusjim]

Please see below letter from an Estate agent I am speaking to in Fuerteventura any one heard about this ???



New Rental Laws Fuerteventura


Dear Owner,

We are writing to you as late May 2015 a new Law was passed in the Canary Islands, permitting properties on Residential complexes to be used for holiday purposes so long as a Licence was obtained and any income earned from the rental of the property is declared in the Tax Office in The Canary islands.

Regarding the new rental laws, a lot of people do not understand and are being misled regarding the new rental laws as it is so new.

There are two types of letting

• Touristic Letting
• Other letting

Basically there are areas that have been discounted for letting, there is a map but it is not very clear and none the less you have to check with the Town Hall to properly check a properties ability to qualify for touristic / Holiday Let.
Because if you are not properly registered fines can be imposed of up to 60,000 euros and the Tourist Board have already employed 19 more inspectors.

Key Points:

Every owner has to submit an application to the town hall to apply for their property to be included in the ability to rent to tourists and the owner has be registered with the Spanish Tax authorities to pay the required taxes.

Process :

Below is an outline of some of the processes and potential associated costs:

Properties on Residential complexes that want to be used for holiday purposes must have a Licence and any income earned from the rental of the property has to be declared in the Tax Office in The Canary islands.

The procedure is time consuming and can be little complicated, which is why we are offering our clients a service and accountancy / legal package to apply and subject to qualification obtain this Licence.

We can assist all through the process to achieve this from application to the end of the process for a fee of €415.

Paperwork:

Should you not have any of the paperwork required (as identified below), we can obtain it on your behalf, but at an additional cost.

To submit an application for a Licence, we require the following documentation:

Escritura - Copy of the Deeds to your property

Licencia Primera Ocupación

Cedula de Habitabilidad –

These are issued by the Town Hall (Ayuntamiento) and state that the complex and property are fit to be occupied.

Recibo IBI – Copy of the rates bill issued by the Town Hall (Ayuntamiento)

Passport AND NIE

Tax Office Requirements:

Alta IAE – Tax Office (Please see explanation below).

As noted above, all income earned from the rental of the property will have to be declared to the Tax Office here in Fuerteventura.
In order to do so, you must be registered within the tax system as running a business / economic activity for the purpose of letting. This can be a lengthy process and of course requires an understanding of Spanish (if an individual wishes to undertake it themselves) should you not be already registered or speak Spanish, then we are able to do so on your behalf at an additional cost of €125.

YOU NEED TO BE REGISTERED WITH THE TAX OFFICE BEFORE YOU CAN APPLY FOR A LICENCE.



Process / Costs Summary:

Should you wish to employ our services to obtain a Licence, we ask that you please arrange for payment of our fees of €415 plus €125 plus IGIC (Canarian tax at 7%) if you are not already registered with the Tax Office here in Fuerteventura for the purposes outlined above.

Ongoing:

Ongoing you will have to submit a tax return annually and again this is a service we can provide ( NOTE : Even if you are not letting you still have to submit an annual tax return, based on your ownership of your property here in the Canary Islands ) again we are able to provide this service to you via our professional advisors please contact us for a quotation.

Property Standards:

An important point of note is that there is certain standards that each property must comply with for letting and must be maintained to ongoing, this is very important that each property comply to the standards set, again we can help with all of these points and specific requirements..

One Important Point:

You cannot identify if a property will qualify for Holiday Letting unless you go through these processes outlined above or the previous owner has already obtained the permissions, but of course once a Licence is obtained this will make the property much more valuable.

Opportunity:

Just for your information we do have a new development called Casilla De Costa which is just being built and we know that these will qualify already under the new rental laws for Holiday Rental.

I hope this helps to give you a clearer picture of the new laws and the processes involved as always we are here to assist and we look forward to hearing from you should you require our help to apply for your properties proper licences ..

GoldAcre Estates S.L For more information email: info@goldacreestates.com

[delderek]

From what I understand, A licence will not be issued by the Tourist authority for holiday letting if the property is in a Tourist area. A VV licence can be obtained, for short term letting for certain reasons, Tourism is not one of the allowed reasons. I believe different Islands are allowed to designate their own areas.

I think the Estate agent is being a little economical with the truth.


See the JA website for factual info.

[TOTO 99]

Most certainly differs from anything I've previously read but if as delderek says, each island can control how it operates then who knows?

The estate agent is certainly sticking his neck out if it's incorrect although they wouldn't be the first would they? For all we know it could just be a money making scheme to fool owners into paying them to do the paperwork for something they were never going to get...:tiphat:

[delderek]

For anyone interested, here is a story from the Telegraph. So to anyone thinking of purchasing a property, be even more cautious than before.

Fernando Clavijo has suggested that tourist numbers should be limited in Tenerife and Lanzarote and that the rising number of all-inclusive packages be controlled.

He was also concerned about the environmental effects of mass tourism and wants to promote the islands as a destination for activity and adventure breaks, rather than just low-cost beach holidays.

Speaking to the El Pais newspaper, Clavijo said that tourists who come on an all-inclusive basis are of less use to the economy.

He said that a limit should be set that respects the environment and does not adversely affect the appeal of the Canaries as a holiday destination for nature lovers.

Clavijo also told the Times: “The pursuit of the largest number of tourists is killing quality in Spain. It is the Magaluf effect.

“Lots of people come from Britain and what they need is a quality resort. We don’t want to attract 20 million tourists each year and then they do not have a good time. We may need to put limits” he added.

Annie Bennett, the author of our expert guide to Lanzarote, said: “While large areas of all the islands are designated nature reserves and are already popular for outdoor tourism, Clavijo is likely to meet fierce opposition to any plans to limit visitor numbers with the knock-on effect on jobs in a region where 30 per cent of people are unemployed, rising to 56 per cent for the under 25s.

She said that, while Fuerteventura has already put a limit on visitor numbers, the other major islands – Tenerife and Gran Canaria as well as Lanzarote – may follow suit.

“These are very early days, however,” she said, “and Clavijo said he plans to hold talks with all the local governments to decide on a policy to improve the overall quality of tourism on the islands, rather than just attract more tourists. He is going to simplify planning regulations to make it easier to undertake renovation work, as 75 per cent of hotels and self-catering accommodation is now more than 25 years old and two thirds of it needs to be modernised.”

[Angusjim]

For anyone interested, here is a story from the Telegraph. So to anyone thinking of purchasing a property, be even more cautious than before.

Fernando Clavijo has suggested that tourist numbers should be limited in Tenerife and Lanzarote and that the rising number of all-inclusive packages be controlled.

He was also concerned about the environmental effects of mass tourism and wants to promote the islands as a destination for activity and adventure breaks, rather than just low-cost beach holidays.

Speaking to the El Pais newspaper, Clavijo said that tourists who come on an all-inclusive basis are of less use to the economy.

He said that a limit should be set that respects the environment and does not adversely affect the appeal of the Canaries as a holiday destination for nature lovers.

Clavijo also told the Times: “The pursuit of the largest number of tourists is killing quality in Spain. It is the Magaluf effect.

“Lots of people come from Britain and what they need is a quality resort. We don’t want to attract 20 million tourists each year and then they do not have a good time. We may need to put limits” he added.

Annie Bennett, the author of our expert guide to Lanzarote, said: “While large areas of all the islands are designated nature reserves and are already popular for outdoor tourism, Clavijo is likely to meet fierce opposition to any plans to limit visitor numbers with the knock-on effect on jobs in a region where 30 per cent of people are unemployed, rising to 56 per cent for the under 25s.

She said that, while Fuerteventura has already put a limit on visitor numbers, the other major islands – Tenerife and Gran Canaria as well as Lanzarote – may follow suit.

“These are very early days, however,” she said, “and Clavijo said he plans to hold talks with all the local governments to decide on a policy to improve the overall quality of tourism on the islands, rather than just attract more tourists. He is going to simplify planning regulations to make it easier to undertake renovation work, as 75 per cent of hotels and self-catering accommodation is now more than 25 years old and two thirds of it needs to be modernised.”


Good to see another pompous Canarian politician telling us the UK holidaymakers what we are looking for and how to have a good time. Why is it if they are not looking for the mass market are they always waxing lyrical about yet another increase in tourist numbers:dontknow:

[TOTO 99]

Good to see another pompous Canarian politician telling us the UK holidaymakers what we are looking for and how to have a good time. Why is it if they are not looking for the mass market are they always waxing lyrical about yet another increase in tourist numbers:dontknow:

It does say it's only a suggestion AJ.......But then goes on to read like it's the law.

I wonder how long it takes to get a suggestion through government in the Canaries?....:tiphat:

[Angusjim]

It does say it's only a suggestion AJ.......But then goes on to read like it's the law.

I wonder how long it takes to get a suggestion through government in the Canaries?....:tiphat:

I know its impossible but but I find myself thinking you are one of the new Mods :crylaughing::crylaughing::spin::spin:

[TOTO 99]

I know its impossible but but I find myself thinking you are one of the new Mods :crylaughing::crylaughing::spin::spin:

I'm afraid they limit my wifi here at the Betty Ford Clinic....:laugh:

Anyway, I wasn't picking you up on your post. Merely pointing out that the piece being discussed was a little deceiving.....:tiphat:

[Hepa]

Here on the island of El Hierro, tourists rarely visit, having been actively discouraged by the local A.H.I., the Independence party. The island now has to live with 37% unemployed, 45% loss of population. In addition to pineapple and bananas we now export most of our young people, sadly they have to leave to find work, very often in the major tourist resorts in other parts of the Canary Islands. Businesses have closed, the government tried to close our only decent hotel, the Parador. However I understand the concern, but why not encourage quality tourists, send them here we need the work.

[Angusjim]

Here on the island of El Hierro, tourists rarely visit, having been actively discouraged by the local A.H.I., the Independence party. The island now has to live with 37% unemployed, 45% loss of population. In addition to pineapple and bananas we now export most of our young people, sadly they have to leave to find work, very often in the major tourist resorts in other parts of the Canary Islands. Businesses have closed, the government tried to close our only decent hotel, the Parador. However I understand the concern, but why not encourage quality tourists, send them here we need the work.

Hepa can you clarify what you mean by " quality tourists ":)

[TOTO 99]

Hepa can you clarify what you mean by " quality tourists ":)

The fact that you have to ask tells me all I need to know...:laugh:

[Malteser Monkey]

The fact that you have to ask tells me all I need to know...:laugh:

Those with dinero !:whistle::laugh:

[Ecky Thump]

Those with dinero !:whistle::laugh:

Those that don't wear Union Jack Shorts!! :D

[Malteser Monkey]

Those that don't wear Union Jack Shorts!! :D

with kilts:cheeky:

[Hepa]

Hepa can you clarify what you mean by " quality tourists ":)

Damn it, I don't think should, I might offend…………. :wink2:

[doreen]

From what I understand, A licence will not be issued by the Tourist authority for holiday letting if the property is in a Tourist area. A VV licence can be obtained, for short term letting for certain reasons, Tourism is not one of the allowed reasons. I believe different Islands are allowed to designate their own areas.

I think the Estate agent is being a little economical with the truth.


See the JA website for factual info.


Yes, the Agent is being a little economical with the truth, in that one of the major requirements for a VV licence is confirmation that the Complex Statutues do not specifically prohibit holiday lettings - there is no point paying them their fee upfront if this is the case as you will not be able to proceed.

But, a VV licence WILL allow short term lets for tourism in a residential area - that is what it is basically for.

On the article in the Telegraph (and I gather also in the Times), the new Canarian President is already backtracking saying he did not specify limiting the number of tourists !

[Ecky Thump]

Damn it, I don't think should, I might offend…………. :wink2:

Go on offend the Scottish, kilt wearing, locked sporran Jock! :D

[delderek]

Yes, the Agent is being a little economical with the truth, in that one of the major requirements for a VV licence is confirmation that the Complex Statutues do not specifically prohibit holiday lettings - there is no point paying them their fee upfront if this is the case as you will not be able to proceed.

But, a VV licence WILL allow short term lets for tourism in a residential area - that is what it is basically for.

On the article in the Telegraph (and I gather also in the Times), the new Canarian President is already backtracking saying he did not specify limiting the number of tourists !

Agree Doreen, but these properties are very unlikely to be in the places that most Brits know and would like to buy in. They would like to let the property to help the finances when back in the UK. But most likely they would be in a rural area and unlikely to attract many tourists. Wrongly or rightly, it's their country and their laws. To Brits looking to buy, ignore the Estate agent, and do your own research. As Angusjim remarks the map he was given is not very clear (I wonder why) A much more detailed map would be available in the appropriate admin office.

[Angusjim]

What gets me is I thought it was all black & white that you could only rent via a sole agent on touristic complexes but apparently not. This new development that is being built in Fuerteventura is to be residential but you will be granted a licence to rent out for short holiday lets, so it appears to be down to individual islands to decide what is best for them?? I thought it was said previously that it was going to be the same thru out the Canaries.:crazy::crazy:

[delderek]

What gets me is I thought it was all black & white that you could only rent via a sole agent on touristic complexes but apparently not. This new development that is being built in Fuerteventura is to be residential but you will be granted a licence to rent out for short holiday lets, so it appears to be down to individual islands to decide what is best for them?? I thought it was said previously that it was going to be the same thru out the Canaries.:crazy::crazy:

I would think the Devil is in the detail.

This licence for Residential properties is a VV (Vivienda Vacacional), and is not granted in Tourist areas, so in your case it is in a designated Residential area. But if you look at the terms of getting and keeping this licence, are pretty frightening. Legally binding declarations, registering for IGIC, with 3 monthly returns etc. Most frightening of all is the level of fines for infringement 30,000 to 300,000 euros.

It is the same law for all the Canaries but I suppose the flexibilty between Islands to designate how the area is classified, is where it can vary.

These laws have stopped me buying again, and coupled with the stated intention of not wanting more tourists, not a good investment. But if its just as a holiday home or a resident, then nowhere finer.

I am not an expert and most of these facts come from JA and other sites.

[marbro8]

Hepa can you clarify what you mean by " quality tourists ":) i can tell you what a quality tourist is. someone willing to put around €4000-€5000 into the tenerife economy every year for the last 9 years like we have. and as you probably do:)

[Ecky Thump]

i can tell you what a quality tourist is. someone willing to put around €4000-€5000 into the tenerife economy every year for the last 9 years like we have. and as you probably do:)

Words of Wisdom!:agree:

[delderek]

i can tell you what a quality tourist is. someone willing to put around €4000-€5000 into the tenerife economy every year for the last 9 years like we have. and as you probably do:)

Not sure how many visits you make per year, but my brother and his wife, just spent 3000 euros for a room on a two week stay at the Gran Melia. I'm sure he feels better knowing that he is the type of Tourist that they want.:whistle:

[marbro8]

Not sure how many visits you make per year, but my brother and his wife, just spent 3000 euros for a room on a two week stay at the Gran Melia. I'm sure he feels better knowing that he is the type of Tourist that they want.:whistle:we make 2 per year on a self catering basis. i have no problem with a/i tourists. it is just pure choice. we like to support the local bars and restaurants around los cris/las americas both english and canarian:)

[delderek]

we make 2 per year on a self catering basis. i have no problem with a/i tourists. it is just pure choice. we like to support the local bars and restaurants around los cris/las americas both english and canarian:)

Err, Gran Melia is most definately not AI,, this was the price "Room Only". Have you ever seen the place, it is fabulous, One of the swimming pools is probably as long as Los Cris promenade. Not quite the same standard as the Bahia Del Duque which have suites at over 6000 euros per week. These are the type of people the govt want in the future. They won't get me, but hey ho what do I know.:tiphat:

[marbro8]

Err, Gran Melia is most definately not AI,, this was the price "Room Only". Have you ever seen the place, it is fabulous, One of the swimming pools is probably as long as Los Cris promenade. Not quite the same standard as the Bahia Del Duque which have suites at over 6000 euros per week. These are the type of people the govt want in the future. They won't get me, but hey ho what do I know.:tiphat:that's what gets to me sometimes.the fact that they want the affluent up market traveler. but it is the down to earth hard working traveler that keeps the economy going:dontknow:

[delderek]

that's what gets to me sometimes.the fact that they want the affluent up market traveler. but it is the down to earth hard working traveler that keeps the economy going:dontknow:

Fair comment, but just think how much the govt get purely, in IGIC, from hotels like that, compared with zilch from the private illegal market.

Just saying.???

[Ecky Thump]

Fair comment, but just think how much the govt get purely, in IGIC, from hotels like that, compared with zilch from the private illegal market.

Just saying.???

I know this is probably completely off topic......The private illegal market customers certainly spend a fair amount of money in Tenerife and the tax evasion and other lost revenues are a splash in the ocean to the undeclared income of the hundreds of British owned bars and restaurants, but no one seems bothered about them.:dontknow:

[Angusjim]

Err, Gran Melia is most definately not AI,, this was the price "Room Only". Have you ever seen the place, it is fabulous, One of the swimming pools is probably as long as Los Cris promenade. Not quite the same standard as the Bahia Del Duque which have suites at over 6000 euros per week. These are the type of people the govt want in the future. They won't get me, but hey ho what do I know.:tiphat:

Must be aff their heids 6000 euros !! this must be the people who book priority boarding and have a meal deal bloody show off's:lol::lol:

[seanocelt]

I know this is probably completely off topic......The private illegal market customers certainly spend a fair amount of money in Tenerife and the tax evasion and other lost revenues are a splash in the ocean to the undeclared income of the hundreds of British owned bars and restaurants, but no one seems bothered about them.:dontknow:

Undeclared income from bars? How? Can you explain or give examples? All the ones i know pay fixed table tax ( regardless of income ) or tax on profits.

[Ecky Thump]

Undeclared income from bars? How? Can you explain or give examples? All the ones i know pay fixed table tax ( regardless of income ) or tax on profits.

I think it's the tax on profit where the evasion arises, my sister made enquires about several bars with a view to buying and the owners have said that the "books" are not a true picture in what profit the bar has made or can achieve over the last year or so. They pay cash for the produce that they buy and sell it with no record of outgoing or incoming money.
I think that gives a clear indication on how it works, they simply don't declare all their cash income from the bar, or maybe I haven't got a clue on how the tax system works.:D

[delderek]

They have the option of paying a percentage of the profits or as Seanocelt said, a Table tax, meaning they agree to pay a percentage on each table, regardless if profitable or not. If it's a busy bar earning lots of money they have gained, if it's not busy they have blown it. Strange option in a country where gambling is not allowed. I have seen bars using beer barrels with a plank of wood on top, arguing that it's not a table. They didn't win, and left the Island :confused:

[Ecky Thump]

They have the option of paying a percentage of the profits or as Seanocelt said, a Table tax, meaning they agree to pay a percentage on each table, regardless if profitable or not. If it's a busy bar earning lots of money they have gained, if it's not busy they have blown it. Strange option in a country where gambling is not allowed. I have seen bars using beer barrels with a plank of wood on top, arguing that it's not a table. They didn't win, and left the Island :confused:

So basically like the illegal letting situation, where people evade tax on their profits, bar and restaurant owners can also be guilty of tax evasion and possibly on a much larger scale. I wonder how diligent the tax inspectors are.;)

[delderek]

By
So basically like the illegal letting situation, where people evade tax on their profits, bar and restaurant owners can also be guilty of tax evasion and possibly on a much larger scale. I wonder how diligent the tax inspectors are.;)

Not really evasion as it is an allowed option. And even if they don't get any customers they still have to pay the tax if they chose the table option.

[Ecky Thump]

By

Not really evasion as it is an allowed option. And even if they don't get any customers they still have to pay the tax if they chose the table option.

I'm thinking of the non table option, they for example make a profit of €1000, but only declare through their books a €500 profit.....is that not tax evasion???

[seanocelt]

I think it's the tax on profit where the evasion arises, my sister made enquires about several bars with a view to buying and the owners have said that the "books" are not a true picture in what profit the bar has made or can achieve over the last year or so. They pay cash for the produce that they buy and sell it with no record of outgoing or incoming money.
I think that gives a clear indication on how it works, they simply don't declare all their cash income from the bar, or maybe I haven't got a clue on how the tax system works.:D

Nope. If they pay table tax then the profit element is not being tax dodged at all. Some months you win, many you lose. They declare income if they use the other system, sorry but its sod all like a clear indication, its absolute nonesense.

[Ecky Thump]

Nope. If they pay table tax then the profit element is not being tax dodged at all. Some months you win, many you lose. They declare income if they use the other system, sorry but its sod all like a clear indication, its absolute nonesense.

What I'm trying to establish is if they don't use the table option of taxation and chose to use the pay on profit method of payment of tax, then could they evade paying tax on a percentage of their income, hence when the owners are selling a bar/restaurant then as they have said to my sister the "books;)" do not show a true picture of the profits that they have made......is this not the case of being able to evade paying full payment of tax if they don't declare all their income from the bar/restaurant?

[delderek]

What I'm trying to establish is if they don't use the table option of taxation and chose to use the pay on profit method of payment of tax, then could they evade paying tax on a percentage of their income, hence when the owners are selling a bar/restaurant then as they have said to my sister the "books;)" do not show a true picture of the profits that they have made......is this not the case of being able to evade paying full payment of tax if they don't declare all their income from the bar/restaurant?

Yup you're correct, but this happens worldwide, it's a lot more difficult these days with VAT or IGIC, as clever computers know that if the business is buying a certain amount it should equate to known margins for that trade. But again if everything is cash with no VAT or IGIC, then no checks can prove anything. I believe this is a favourite Greek pastime.

One thing though if you choose the Non table tax, is that you have to submit proper audited accounts, which are not cheap.

[seanocelt]

What Eric (Ecky ) is alluding to is rife everywhere i have lived, but the option of hiding profit is as hard here now as anywhere, you cant buy much off the books therefore cant sell much off it either . They need receipts to prove costs/pay less tax. IF i were looking at a bar (as you know i have before but pulled out of the last one), i would look at the books like i would elsewhere, the books aint the whole picture. Its valid to bring up on this thread as illegal letting IS a business, one that is going to be scrutinised severely it seems.

[doreen]

What I'm trying to establish is if they don't use the table option of taxation and chose to use the pay on profit method of payment of tax, then could they evade paying tax on a percentage of their income, hence when the owners are selling a bar/restaurant then as they have said to my sister the "books;)" do not show a true picture of the profits that they have made......is this not the case of being able to evade paying full payment of tax if they don't declare all their income from the bar/restaurant?

We're veering off topic here, but I have to reply too on this ...Ecky, the main reason your sister was being told that the books did not show the true profit is usually because there is little or no profit to speak of, but it is a good way of not saying that ! Cash that comes in off the books usually goes to pay staff cash in hand because, where there is tax evasion by many of the British bars is in not giving contracts to their staff and so "saving" on paying 30% plus on social security payments ... for most, it is a question of survival, as you cannot manage to sell 1 euro pints and pay all due taxes.

[IrishLad]

Hi all, anyone got any idea where i could rent a villa for a week on Sept 21st for a just married couple with a private garden or pool area?

[pikano]

Sorry if this question has been asked before, I did try to search and found nothing, but what about all these apartments being short-term let on Air BnB? Are they mostly illegal?

[Liftman]

They have to be illegal from the owners point of view.
The only way for short term lettings to be legal is if they are done through the complex "official agent" therefore not Air B&B.

[LUCKY]

To keep the Forum alive and going (possibly to eternity and beyond) May i respectfully suggest that all members start at the begining and read to the end.
Malty will ask questions later to see how attentive you have all been. :flatcap::feret::feret::feret::feret:

[timmylish]

To keep the Forum alive and going (possibly to eternity and beyond) May i respectfully suggest that all members start at the begining and read to the end.
Malty will ask questions later to see how attentive you have all been. :flatcap::feret::feret::feret::feret:

Can you confirm or deny that Red Stars in Jotters will be awarded to those members still alive after following this instruction?

[LUCKY]

Can you confirm or deny that Red Stars in Jotters will be awarded to those members still alive after following this instruction?

I can neither confirm or deny any stars whatever the colour. That would possibly depend on Malteser Monkey the colour of her pen. But no doubt she could be seeing red after my announcement :flatcap:

[murph]

Interesting!

http://eldia.es/canarias/2017-04-26/13-TSJC-tumba-nucleo-decreto-alquiler-vacacional.htm

[Angusjim]

Will be interesting to see how this develops

[Leam_Lin]

Yes, waiting for someone to translate, at our recent AGM, the President's words on letting were ' through the on-site agent or to family & friends'. Friends had never been mentioned until this year.

[cressrt]

There was an update on J A page as well yesterday

[Leam_Lin]

There was an update on J A page as well yesterday

Looked cannot find it.

[cressrt]

.../news/monopolies-commission-calls-on-canarian-government-to-remove-restrictions-in-vivienda-vacacional-decree.html

[Leam_Lin]

.../news/monopolies-commission-calls-on-canarian-government-to-remove-restrictions-in-vivienda-vacacional-decree.html

Thanks for trying, the link will not let me click on, sorry not very computer savvy!

- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -


.../news/monopolies-commission-calls-on-canarian-government-to-remove-restrictions-in-vivienda-vacacional-decree.html

Thanks for trying, the link will not let me click on, sorry not very computer savvy!

- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -


.../news/monopolies-commission-calls-on-canarian-government-to-remove-restrictions-in-vivienda-vacacional-decree.html

Thanks for trying, the link will not let me click on, sorry not very computer savvy!

- - - - - - - - - - merged double post - - - - - - - - - -

As you can see. LOL.

[cressrt]

You need to add the website name at the beginning where the ... is, i,e, J A.com/ obviously the name in full

[murph]

Basic Translation

The owners and managers of holiday homes have obtained a first victory in the battle that faces them to the Government of the Canary Islands and the hotel management. The High Court of Justice of the Canary Islands (TSJC) has annulled several articles of the decree that regulates this activity - approved in the final measures of the last legislature and which Parliament has urged to review - including the exclusion of houses located in areas Tourist, a prohibition that leaves out of the law about half of the real estate dedicated to the holiday rental.

"The regulation clearly infringes the freedom of business and freedom to provide services, limiting the tourist offer without sufficient justification," the magistrates of the regional court, in line with the arguments put forward by the Spanish Federation of Associations of Housing for Tourist Use And Tourist Apartments (Fevitur) and the National Commission of Markets and Competition.

According to the TSJC, "it does not make sense that the offer of holiday homes should be excluded from those areas where tourism should be located preferentially." Judges even venture into what motives may hide behind this measure. In his opinion, "the only plausible explanation for this cut-off is that this is to favor the supply of traditional tourist accommodation products", which are located mostly in these areas. The higher court concludes that, in this way, free competition in the provision of services is violated.

The ruling questions the principle of separation of uses advocated by the Government and hotel entrepreneurs in remembering that tourist areas can be established on territories with residential uses. "The specialization of uses according to areas that try to promote the different laws in tourism is nothing more than an aspiration, but it is far from being a reality," said the magistrates.

The article prohibiting the rental of rooms is also challenged. According to the TSJC, "there is no reason to require a client who only wants to hire a room to stay that assumes the cost of renting the entire home."

The court annuls, finally, the obligation to the owners to wait a period of 15 days after formalizing the declaration responsible to start the activity.

In contrast, the TSJC dismisses the challenge of the obligation to install a badge in the property and to have a minimum equipment, as well as the regulation of advertising and information.

[fixer]

The laws a **** it will mean that a indvidual provided he complies with the rules ect whatever they turn out to be can rent his residential property but i cant as a individual rent my tourist registered apartment legally myself. but its all about protecting Ash Hotels

[Ricman]

Advice please:- is it legal to holiday rent your apartment i.e. for 4 days to 14 days, through a holiday rental company booking site if you live on a residential complex now ?

[delderek]

Nope, nothing has changed.

[BobMac]

It would appear that the rest of Spain might be heading down the same path regarding the control of illegal letting.

See this report on the BBC website today - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43878007

[cressrt]

There is a new post on J A page that Ashotel are setting up a system for illegal letting in their own name!

[Ecky Thump]

.

Any updates on the letting laws of apartments?

[delderek]

As far as I understand In a nutshell No, The VV law is being redrafted, but unlikely to be much different. The authorities are now targeting websites like air bnb, for advertising properties that do not have the correct authorisation. I believe the Balearics are doing the same.

[Ecky Thump]

As far as I understand In a nutshell No, The VV law is being redrafted, but unlikely to be much different. The authorities are now targeting websites like air bnb, for advertising properties that do not have the correct authorisation. I believe the Balearics are doing the same.


So it looks like the owners are relying on all their very good friends and lots of family members to keep their apartments cleaned and aired! :p

[delderek]

Only if they like roulette and gamble on number 39. not a gamble that I would take these days. Seems to be very little in Los Cris on air bnb. The two big transgressors Dinastia and El mirador are very well hidden now. And maybe the El Mirador strip is now suffering. Shambles closed, and the Oyster catcher.

[Ecky Thump]

Only if they like roulette and gamble on number 39. not a gamble that I would take these days. Seems to be very little in Los Cris on air bnb. The two big transgressors Dinastia and El mirador are very well hidden now. And maybe the El Mirador strip is now suffering. Shambles closed, and the Oyster catcher.

I'm not sure that the illegal letting situation has had any effect on either the Oyster Catcher or The Shambles as for all the years that I have been a customer of them (Shambles mainly), I have hardly ever seen any el Mirador residents or visitors use them, but plenty can be seen eating and drinking at the Passarela Oasis Shopping Center, both in the day and evenings.

[essexeddie]

Only if they like roulette and gamble on number 39. not a gamble that I would take these days. Seems to be very little in Los Cris on air bnb. The two big transgressors Dinastia and El mirador are very well hidden now. And maybe the El Mirador strip is now suffering. Shambles closed, and the Oyster catcher.

The Oyster Catcher has just reopened as an Indian.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ecky Thump]

.

Have there been any recent reports of fines being issued and possibly more importantly are they being paid or just sitting waiting for appeals to be heard?

[essexeddie]

[QUOTE=Ecky Thump;556473].

Have there been any recent reports of fines being issued and possibly more importantly are they being paid or just sitting waiting for appeals to be heard?

€40K so Im told. And the courts can take years.
We don't let anymore now.

.

[delderek]

As far as I can make out, yes fines are still being levied. the BOC that you could check has nowhere near as many shown as in the past. But only fines on untraceable owners were listed on this site. So now seems that many more owners are now traceable.